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Kreatures Of Habit Podcast
The Hidden Cost of Success with Scarlett Leung | Kreatures of Habit
01:04:12
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- [00:00]
A
People like you. And I don't understand the concept of nine to five because it never shuts off. Right? No matter where you are in the world. We can become deeply entrenched in work and forget that life is not supposed to be lived that way.
- [00:17]
B
As a founder, you have to do literally everything in a business. I was very stressed out all the time. I figured things out a little bit better now. So I think I delegate a lot more than I used to. When someone walks in, like, this is a floor plan. I need people standing here, here, here, not having, like, to go to, like, the very fine details of everything. I just trust that my team are good at what they do, and then they'll do it.
- [00:43]
A
So slow down. Micromanagement.
- [00:45]
B
Slow down.
- [00:45]
A
And, like, given team autonomy, at the.
- [00:48]
B
End of the day, it's like, small business owners. There's no way to be successful in business without that. That is, like, my best attribute. That really, like, gave me the confidence to, like, design life, to work for me and for me to be happy, and that's how I'll perform the best. The stress of running a business and having, like, six different investors asking you what you're doing to grow the business is very, very stressful, and I don't have to do that anymore.
- [01:19]
A
An entrepreneur straight out of New York City. Michael Chernow. What's cracking? I. I love sitting across the table from founders, and I feel like the. The wars we fight on a daily basis are. You know, there's this. There's this glamorization of being an entrepreneur. And though I think people like you and I probably wouldn't have it any other way, or couldn't have it any other way. Do you think you were born with this thing?
- [02:01]
B
Now, I would say yes. I come from a very entrepreneurial family. My family's from Hong Kong. Both sides of my grandfather's had very successful businesses, gave seed capital. Everyone had their own company, including my father. And so actually, growing up, I was told heavily by my mother to never become an entrepreneur, because every sort of family gathering, every dinner, it was all about talking about business. Business always came first, even before family time. And it was just like, my mom was like, don't grow up and be like that. Don't find a husband who's like, you know, a founder. Corporate jobs are the best. And so I kind of went down that path. Like, I work for really big companies. I work for Deloitte. I work for Phil Morris. I work for l'. Oreal. And I'd say that I fell into entrepreneurship and that I actually had investors come to me and ask me to start a company and gave me money to start it. And then once I started, I was like, I can't go back. Like, I've been in denial all these years, but this is what I truly love doing.
- [03:11]
A
What is it that you love about it? Like, if you had to sum it up into like two sentences.
- [03:19]
B
The thought of bringing something to life that brings people joy is just so much fun. I just love building brands. I'm the friend who I'll be like, but you're so good at that. Why don't you start a company around that? Or, this is amazing. You should do it. And I just feel like so many brands and things that we use every single day, it was someone like us that had an idea and went for it. And so I don't know. It's a sickness.
- [03:52]
A
It is. Tell us about the darkest moment as an entrepreneur for you.
- [03:57]
B
Yeah. So I have a collagen iced tea now called Pretty Tasty. But before that I had a company called Sugar Break. The idea was to sort of bring Eastern and western medicine to sort of get people to be more proactive about blood sugar. Because I realized after Frank got diagnosed with diabetes, like how prevalent it was and how unsexy and no one really wanted to talk about it. So I felt deeply about the impact of that business. Oh, thank you. And it didn't have a great ending. We were raising for series A. We had investors soft circled. They wanted a recap. Couldn't get it done with my co founders. And I ended up leaving hoping that that would solve some of the issues. Enough. Runway ended up being shut down like two months later. They ran out of money. And I felt like this child of mine, just all blood, sweat and tears for years, just vanished into nothing.
- [05:03]
A
When you said you couldn't get it done with your co founders. Walk me through with that. Walk me through that.
- [05:07]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, I was the CEO and I was full time person on the business. I had three other co founders and a lot of the investors felt strongly that there wasn't enough equity left on the table with four of us to incentivize me because I had the least by far and the rest of investors who are coming in, so they needed a recapitalization to be done. And, you know, it's a tough conversation and we tried to work around it for, you know, months and I couldn't get an agreement. Yeah.
- [05:46]
A
Was there friction between the co founders?
- [05:49]
B
Oh, for sure. I mean, it's not fun to Asking your co founders to reduce their equity.
- [05:57]
A
Right?
- [05:58]
B
Yeah.
- [05:59]
A
What would. Like, what if you could describe the feeling of knowing that something that you've spent so much time on is actually going to come to an end? Or maybe. Maybe, like, did you still have. Like, were you still optimistic that there was a way through? Or, like, was there a moment where you were like, this thing is gonna. This is over?
- [06:21]
B
I think I was. I was so in love with the product and the business I built and my team and the mission that there were definitely times where I was just like, maybe I can just convince investors that I don't need that much equity. Like, it's fine. Like, I'll keep on doing this. Like, I'm not any less incentivized. Like, it'll be okay. I actually had investors come to me and they're like, this is not the sort you fall on. You can always start a new company. Don't do this. Don't waste the next few years trying to muscle through this. I think that's when I was like, well, if the people who put money in it or we're going to put money in it are telling me that, you know, this is. Isn't what I should do, then I should really rethink this. But I really, really thought that, you know, I really couldn't let go. And I felt like it was such a big part of my identity, even after I was trying to work through a transition. But after I left, I felt like, what am I without this company? Like, who am I? I even had founder friends who, like, had, like, a founder getaway. And I was like, why wasn't I invited? They were like, well, you left your company. You're not a founder anymore.
- [07:44]
A
Wow.
- [07:44]
B
And that was, like, really, like, stab in the heart.
- [07:49]
A
Holy smokes. I was like, I'm harsh.
- [07:51]
B
I'm already struggling. And I'm like, maybe I'm not. They're right. Maybe I'm not a founder anymore. What am I?
- [07:59]
A
Wow. And how long were you running that company.
- [08:03]
B
For? Three years.
- [08:06]
A
So you. You.
- [08:08]
B
You.
- [08:08]
A
You close that thing up, you wind it down.
- [08:10]
B
I didn't wind it down. It happened after I left, so I did. I thought it was gonna survive without me.
- [08:16]
A
Oh, so you decided you had to make the hard decision to step away.
- [08:19]
B
Yeah.
- [08:20]
A
So you chose to step away, and then it ultimately ended up winding down.
- [08:25]
B
Yeah.
- [08:26]
A
How long was it before you launched your next business? What'd you do next?
- [08:33]
B
Actually, my investor for Pretty Tasty was one of the investors who wanted to invest or acquire my last company. We started having conversations. They're like, we just want to work with you, so let's figure something out. We started formulating and talking about this almost immediately, but I didn't think I was like, you know, are they actually gonna do this with me? Like, maybe this is just a conversation, but it's fine. And then, you know, two years later, they're like, no, like, we've, like, we're actually doing this. And so I think. And we've been in market year and a half, so, yeah, then we decided to launch it.
- [09:19]
A
If you had to encapsulate why these investors came after you.
- [09:23]
B
Yeah.
- [09:23]
A
Like, what is it about you? Just so that people can hear that being a founder is not always being like this, like, Harvard grad, I didn't go to mit. Okay, that helps. That helps. But like, there's a. There's got to be a reason why these, these investors actually, like, came after you.
- [09:49]
B
I think so. You know, I sort of talked about, like, all the different things that I've done. I have a pretty unique background and I think that's what investors found attractive because, like, as a founder, you have to do literally everything in a business. And I've been fortunate enough that I've always had this motto of, like, if I'm going to learn something and if it's fine, I'm going to do it. So, like, I started my career at Deloitte. I was. I'm a CPA by training. I was an auditor and I had like, technology and telecom and retail clients and managed like, large teams at a very young age. And then I went off to, like, I worked for a cigarette company. I was in internal consulting, like, totally random. But then I spent a lot of time in Asia and Australia managing teams in those areas and understanding markets there. And then I went over to l' Oreal at a help at Longcom, which is a big chunk of their revenue in Asia. So understand that market end up in beauty and like, you know, Howard State marketing teams and went to school and went to fashion. I worked for All Saints and that was, I think, sort of pivotal in that. Like, everything was a little random. And then, you know, the CEO there was like, I'm gonna turn this business around. I think you gotta help me do it. I just need someone smart. And so they were crazy enough to let me manage North America when I had no retail experience. And like, I did like, crazy things. Like, I redid, like, storefronts. I like, you know, redid, like, structure of like, teams, like, all the cost, you know, like prices of clothes.
- [11:30]
A
So you were running All Saints in North America?
- [11:32]
B
Yeah. And then their outlet business, and then they moved me to their European business, and then I started their franchise business. I took them to Middle east and Latin America, and then randomly also, we were like the first brand to have a store and on Amazon. So I launched what we call a brand store pages with them. And then I worked in grocery. I worked at FreshDirect as our CXO before I had. Oh, and then that's when I got recruited to start an egg freezing company. So I was, like, in healthcare. And then I had that other supplement business.
- [12:11]
A
How does your brain work? Like, what is it about your brain? Are you just, like, you seem so calm, cool, and collected. And when I think. When I hear you say, you know, like, these are. These are. These are roles that are like, there's an enormous amount of stress that would go into changing the course of a, you know, of a business that is massive and struggling.
- [12:37]
B
Yeah.
- [12:38]
A
How do you. Like what?
- [12:39]
B
Well, I was less. I was not calm, cool, and collected back then. I was very stressed out all the time. I figured things out a little bit better now.
- [12:50]
A
So what did you do different? What are you doing different?
- [12:54]
B
I think I have more confidence in myself because I've done it so many more times. My acupuncturist did say that I actually look calm on the outside, but I'm kind of stressed. That's what she told me yesterday. But I think it's also like, delegation, you know, I think because Sugar Break broke my heart so much that, like, I feel like everything else is, like, easy compared to what happened there. And I've also, like, done it so many times with so many different companies. I just feel like now is the time where I need to, like, design life to work for me and for me to be happy, and that's how I'll perform the best.
- [13:43]
A
And what does that look like? So how, like, if you can isolate a few things that you have done to actually follow that lead of. I need to design life to work for me.
- [13:55]
B
I think I delegate a lot more than I used to, not having to go to the very fine details of everything. I just trust that my team are good at what they do and then they'll do it.
- [14:08]
A
So slow down. Micromanagement.
- [14:10]
B
Slow down. Yeah.
- [14:12]
A
And given team autonomy.
- [14:14]
B
Yeah.
- [14:14]
A
Okay. How's that working out?
- [14:17]
B
Good. I think there's also sort of taking time for myself, being more flexible with my schedule. Like, I, you know, coming out and doing podcasts in the middle of the day or like meeting a friend, you know, in the afternoon. Like, I will allow myself to do these things where before I would never do that because I'm like, I would feel guilty if, like I should be working right now. But all of this, like, adds to my quality of life.
- [14:48]
A
And this is also working.
- [14:50]
B
It does.
- [14:51]
A
I know it's hard to believe that. It's hard to believe that I'm with you too. You know, my first few years as an entrepreneur, specifically in the restaurant business, I mean, I felt so guilty stepping away until my wife.
- [15:05]
B
Yeah.
- [15:06]
A
Basically took me aside after two years of meatball shop, you know, mayhem and said, I don't know you, I haven't seen you. Why are you doing this if you're going to lose me?
- [15:19]
B
Yeah.
- [15:20]
A
What would you, why would you do this? Like, what is the upside of this outside of potentially making money but losing everything else in your life? Because quite frankly, I'm still here but you're not. And I was like, oh, damn. Like we can become deeply entrenched in work and forget that life is not supposed to be lived that way.
- [15:49]
B
Yeah.
- [15:49]
A
You know, like people like you and I probably don't understand the concept of nine to five, because as an entrepreneur and I'm sure as a high level executive at a large corporation, like, it never shuts off. Right. Like there's never a moment you can be no matter where you are in the world. You know, like, I can't comprehend the person's like, not that I don't appreciate it or respect it or anything like that, but like, I don't know what it would mean, like to like your work life shuts off at 5 o' clock and then it starts again at 9am like you don't need to be responsible to anything outside of those hours throughout the day. Right. So like you leave the office or you leave the store or you leave whatever it is and then all the that can potentially go wrong has nothing to do with you and you don't need to worry about it.
- [16:40]
B
Yeah.
- [16:41]
A
You know, however, as I've gotten older and evolved as a, as a human, I understand why this 9 to 5 thing is in existence. Because life is not supposed to be all work, no play.
- [17:00]
B
Yeah.
- [17:00]
A
You know, and it's hard because when you're so passionate about something and you want it to be successful and you want it to work, you know that your involvement is always going to. Even if you have the greatest team in the world.
- [17:17]
B
Yeah.
- [17:17]
A
You know that like you stepping away for whatever it is those few hours that, that vacation, like you are going to lose a percentage of success in the business, Right?
- [17:29]
B
I don't know. I think about that. I'm like, is that hubris? Like, do I actually think like me being that involved constantly makes that much of a difference? I don't know.
- [17:41]
A
Interrupting this episode to share with you that Creatures of Habit finally launched our protein bar. It's called the Daily Bar. It's made with 20 grams of plant based protein, 3 grams of creatine. Yes, you heard that right. It also has 3 grams of creatine. It is incredibly tasty and clean as a whistle. All clean ingredients. Take this opportunity. Hop over to creaturesofhabit.com that's creaturesofhabit.com with a K and use code K. O H p o d. 20 at checkout for 20% off your first order. Back to the pod. I know. For certain.
- [18:22]
B
Yeah.
- [18:23]
A
Specifically in the world of irl.
- [18:26]
B
Yeah.
- [18:26]
A
Brick and mortar business.
- [18:28]
B
Right.
- [18:29]
A
When I was at the restaurants, yeah, they ran more successfully and people's experience was. Was better.
- [18:37]
B
Yeah.
- [18:38]
A
Internally as a team and also externally as a guest. Yeah, it was night and day. Not that it was like a hundred percent better, but for sure it was like 15 to 20% better. And I've gotten so comfortable in my company, Creatures of Habit now, like you like. I think what's changed in my leadership is giving people full, actually full autonomy. So much so that when they come to me with a hey, what do you think of this and what do you think of that? When it's not something that's like nest, like massively revenue centered, I'm like, I'm not going to answer that question for you. You do what you think is the right decision and once it's done, we either high five and hug or watch the tapes and try to be better on the next one, you know. So I like, you know, so talk to me about pretty tasty, like where are you guys at and how's the company going?
- [19:44]
B
It's going really well. I will. I'm not the CEO of the company. Big difference.
- [19:49]
A
Okay.
- [19:51]
B
Took a step back from that. So also much happier.
- [19:56]
A
What's your role there?
- [19:57]
B
I'm a chief brand officer.
- [19:59]
A
Cool, cool. So you really focus on partnerships.
- [20:03]
B
Do like the fun stuff.
- [20:04]
A
The fun stuff. That's great. Do you have influence on some of the other large scale decisions?
- [20:11]
B
I do, but it's not, I'm not the one responsible for at the end of day. And I'm backed by one family office, which also is a very different experience than being p Backed or venture backed, which is how the other companies you know, I ran were funded.
- [20:32]
A
Talk to us about the difference there. I want to understand the difference there.
- [20:36]
B
Yeah, I mean, so I'm really, really lucky. My investor who funds this, like, you know, he really wanted to work with me. He has other beverage brands. Like his family's mainly in real estate and banking. But so there's like a love for it that's not just numbers and multiples, you know, all the time. And I don't need to worry about running out of money because I know that if I get a big retailer or there's a big partnership opportunity, if I have his buy in, there's going to be money for it. So you know, in venture you're constantly, you raise enough to get through 18 months because that's sort of the standard. But you can't start fundraising at the end of 18 months. So you're like fundraising like 12 months, worried that you're not gonna have money in six months. You're also trying to run a company at the same time. You also need to get valuations because like that's what, you know, gets people interested and keeps it going. And so like the stress of that, on top of running a business and having like six different investors asking for weekly catch ups and like asking you what you're doing to grow the business is very, very stressful and I don't have to do that anymore.
- [22:03]
A
Would you, would you do that again?
- [22:06]
B
No.
- [22:08]
A
No. So for the entrepreneur listening, whose early days, what is your advice on venture specifically? Because I think venture comes before private equity.
- [22:21]
B
I think you need to think about why you want to be venture backed. I think, you know, the glamorization of being a founder, I think there's a glamorization of being a venture back startup founder. Right? There's like almost more. It's like, I don't know, it feels cooler and it's a bit of a validation.
- [22:42]
A
Like these guys believed in me and look at their portfolio.
- [22:47]
B
Because I'm like at the end of the day it's like small business owners just like, where's the money coming from? And I, so I think like that, you know, I think about that like can you self fund it? Are there other ways taking a loan? Like obviously I was very lucky at a family office that's like a great, you know, but like everything has its pros and cons and you know, you just need to think about like and is, is your product even a fit for venture backing? Because you have to, they're gonna invest in, like, you know, a bunch of different companies, and the ones they know some are gonna fail. So the ones that do, well, have to, like, basically return the fund. Do you think you can, like, take that money and 10x evaluation so that it's worth their while? If not with, you know, like a lot of consumer goods, it's really, really difficult to hit that. And it might not make sense.
- [23:48]
A
You might have to introduce me to your family office.
- [23:52]
B
I come hang out in my office.
- [23:56]
A
I. Are you guys in both retail and in D2C?
- [24:02]
B
We're in both retail and D2C. So I officially launched it a year and a half ago. I did a pitch contest at Bevnet, which is like the industry pitch contest, and we won best new beverage. So I feel like that really gave me the confidence that people actually like it as a concept and as a drink and that we should go for it. Just random. Between that sugar break and pre taste. I was actually the CEO for Deepak Chopra's wellness business. So I was doing that just a.
- [24:39]
A
Little, little piece that you might want to drop in there.
- [24:43]
B
But so, like, then I was like, okay, like, I'm doing this, you know, just focusing on the brand. And we, you know, we're launching into within end of first year, first six months, we went to CVS nationwide, we're going to Sprouts in a week nationwide, and then we're going to Target in May nationwide. Wow.
- [25:06]
A
Okay. So you guys are on a real scaling, like, moment.
- [25:10]
B
Yeah.
- [25:11]
A
So cool. And. And scary.
- [25:14]
B
What?
- [25:14]
A
And scary. But you, you're. You're the chief brand officer. You know.
- [25:19]
B
Exactly.
- [25:20]
A
You're the chief brand officer. It's like, scary, but fun too, right? Because, like, you get to activate in all sorts of cool, fun ways.
- [25:27]
B
Yeah.
- [25:29]
A
How big is the team?
- [25:31]
B
So it's an interesting sort of hybrid. I, you know, I'm basically the only company my investors invested in, like, from scratch. So I'm like the outsider. He has his teams that run the other beverage businesses. So we're. I get to use that.
- [25:49]
A
Oh, that's cool team.
- [25:50]
B
And they're like, really experienced. So it's been great. Because otherwise I would never touch beverage. It is too complicated.
- [25:59]
A
So you have a pool of resources that you tap into and they run your finance, your ops. Wow, that's cool.
- [26:07]
B
Yeah.
- [26:09]
A
The. Talk to me about a moment in your career that was defining as, okay, I'm the real deal.
- [26:23]
B
I think that was all saints, because the CEO, I love him. He was crazy enough to give me these roles would be like, oh, you could turn around this region in three months. Right. Just go do your thing. I'd be like, what? And then three months later, somehow I'd be able to do it. And then he'd be like, great. You're getting the next thing that you need to turn around in, like, three months.
- [26:48]
A
So you were, like, a special operator.
- [26:50]
B
I became that somehow. And so, like, after that, like, when I look back, I was like, wait, I've done all of this, and I haven't screwed up yet. I guess I'm pretty good. And so, like, that gave me the confidence.
- [27:10]
A
Do you think that. So given an opportunity like that, it's a really cool opportunity. Right. You're. You're. You're. I. I would classify that as, like, an intrapreneur. Right. Like, you're. You are developing concepts, strategies, and executions. Plans.
- [27:25]
B
Yeah.
- [27:26]
A
To, like, fully. Right. Size a ship.
- [27:29]
B
Yeah.
- [27:29]
A
Right. So you're given a project.
- [27:34]
B
Yeah.
- [27:35]
A
What do you like in terms. Because it sounds like it. It's. It's a. It's a. It's a perfect combination of we need to be super creative outside of the box here, but it also needs to be operationally sound.
- [27:48]
B
Yeah.
- [27:49]
A
So, like, how do you start linking those things together? Because it sounds like it's basically like creating a business within. Within an infrastructure that has resources.
- [28:04]
B
Referring to when I was at All.
- [28:05]
A
Saints, like, okay, I need you to go turn this.
- [28:08]
B
Yeah. But it's not. It's not, like, that creative. It's more, like, basic things that people just didn't take the time to think about in a way. Like, you know, for example, like, you know, I talked about, like, when, you know, North America was my first project because I had launched and it wasn't successful. They sort of took that, like, grungy, dark, like, East London vibe and brought it to the US which culturally doesn't work at all.
- [28:41]
A
I mean, I remember the store on Broadway, downtown.
- [28:43]
B
Yeah. And also, like, the staff were just, like, we're just gonna ignore people because, like. Like, you know, this is our vibe. I'm like, no, you can't do that. And so it's just, like, retraining the team and being, like, as basic as. Like, when someone walks in. Like, this is a floor plan. I need people standing here, here, here, here. This is how you triage when someone walks in. Like, you know, like, this is how you. This is your role, and this is how you interact with, like, your customer or how you help out a colleague. You know, things like taking off, like, sewing machines on the front because there was no brand. People didn't know what was inside and they couldn't see it. Like maybe put a mannequin so people know that we're selling clothes. So like more people would come in, like pricing it in a way that actually makes sense for like, you know, the brand sort of that we're trying to establish. Like maybe not have 200 people that were working in the Soho store. You know, kind of tough to make money when you have that many people on staff. Like, you know, it's just like basics like this that I sort of spent time to just observe, sit in store, talk to customers, look at the numbers and make tweaks that really made a difference.
- [29:59]
A
You know, it reminds me, I forgot this story, but in one of Malcolm Gladwell's book, I forgot which book, maybe it was Matt Turning Point, but he talks about, I forgot the politician that came in or the chief of police that came in in New York City in like the late 80s, early, but basically New York City was. Crime rate was at an all time high. And this police chief came in and said, this is what we're gonna do. Yeah, we're gonna start cleaning the trains extensively. We are going to take all of the graffiti off the trains and then when they get filled up with graffiti again, we're just going to clean the graffiti off the trains and, and then right after we start cleaning the graffiti off the trains, we're, you know, the idea is we're taking action. Right? Like we're taking a step here.
- [30:53]
B
Yeah.
- [30:53]
A
We're not, we're not arresting all the, we're trying to get the murderers and the drug dealers. But ultimately this is going to be the focus. We are going to focus on the trains and we are going to clean up these trains and then we're going to start arresting people on the spot for jumping turnstiles. If you jump a turnstile, not only are you getting arrested and brought to jail, but you will be looking at jail time and those little things that they just changed completely change the crime rate and dynamic of New York City, you know. So I guess what you're saying is it's not about big, big changes. It's about focusing on the, on, on, on crossing the T's and dotting the eyes that could make the biggest waves.
- [31:37]
B
Yeah.
- [31:40]
A
For someone who's listening, who's interested in entrepreneurship or an entrepreneur and struggling and stressed out and money is always the big problem. Right. What do you say to that person? Piece of advice that just keeps them, keeps them going.
- [32:04]
B
You know, praying for exits. Like I just like joke that that's what we're all, we're all struggling at like some point. Like you know, you look at the next who's venture funded or you still struggle for capital for the most part. That's something that you always have to think about. And I think also about glamorizing entrepreneurship. We also really glamorize founders who have exits and tried to make it sound like oh yeah, overnight, three years later they sold for a billion dollar valuation. Most of these people have been working on it for like 10 plus years. They just like don't talk about it the same way. And they're probably doing it on the side and they're probably struggling just as much. And they probably had like, you know, three failed companies before that. And not every, also every success has to be a billion dollar sale. Like there are many other options of, you know, you learn a lot, you build a great network. Sometimes maybe you just get sold at a smaller number. I have friends who have sold their businesses and they don't want to talk about it because they're like, well it wasn't that big billion dollar company. So I think about why you want to do it. I think goes back to what success means to you and I think if you are clear about that, makes it a lot easier.
- [33:35]
A
You know. I'm so happy you brought that up. The exit, the exit dream, right. In the founder of circles.
- [33:42]
B
Yeah.
- [33:44]
A
We're talking about like 300, 400, 500 million dollar exits, right?
- [33:51]
B
Yeah.
- [33:52]
A
Like it's nothing like oh yeah, like.
- [33:54]
B
Oh, you know, we talk about millions of dollars like it's nothing. I know it's disgusting but that is how we are. We're like, oh yeah, I only raise like, like, like a million dollars or like, you know, this is a tiny round of like, you know, tiny round of a million. Yeah. 5 million. You know.
- [34:12]
A
I, I am like I, I, I never thought that from my history, never thought that I'd be having conversations about anything in the millions.
- [34:24]
B
Right.
- [34:24]
A
I just didn't and it was not my family didn't have that. And, and it's, and I find myself sometimes and I have to like really check myself. Like I have a plan for creatures of habit. I know like in my mind I have create, I have this vision.
- [34:39]
B
Yeah.
- [34:40]
A
And this very clear path to get to the finish line.
- [34:43]
B
Yeah.
- [34:44]
A
And I was with a brand this the from Sunday to Tuesday, this really brilliant guy from Hong Kong, this guy Danny Yuen and he started this brand Ima with David Beckham.
- [35:05]
B
I take, I am eight every day.
- [35:07]
A
Amazing. I'm, I'm a huge fan of ima. I take it every single day myself. And I've been working with them for a while now and since they've launched, basically because I love that stuff. Like, you know, I really, really do love that stuff. And they invited me to come join them on their company off site from Thursday, from Sunday to Tuesday, this past week, the weekend. And I was having a one on one with Danny, the founder, the CEO and he was like, oh, so tell me about creatures and I want to know all about it and what's your plan? And I kind of gave him the full spectrum of what I see happening and with this new protein bar and how much success we've had with it in early days and, and I was like, what, you know, what's the IMA vision? And he's like, he's like, I am going to build the number one greatest, absolute best supplement brand in the world and I have no plan on selling this business, you know. And it was, it dawned on me, I was like, wow, there are, there are also founders that are like, no, this is my legacy, this is what I'm gonna do. Now granted, he's had multiple, you know, nine figure.
- [36:24]
B
I mean they just did 60 million in their first year casually.
- [36:27]
A
So yeah, they're the fastest growing supplement company in history. Right?
- [36:33]
B
Yeah.
- [36:34]
A
And, and so I just kind of like, I do think that there is a spectrum.
- [36:39]
B
Yeah.
- [36:41]
A
And I do think that there's something about entrepreneurs that come out of Hong Kong. There's something in the water there because.
- [36:46]
B
It'S, it's in the blood, you know.
- [36:49]
A
Like he gave a presentation on AI.
- [36:51]
B
Yeah.
- [36:52]
A
And it just made me feel like I was still like, you know, using like ravens to communicate. I was like, oh my gosh. Like, are you guys using AI at pretty tasty?
- [37:07]
B
Not. I mean we do it for like some content or like, you know, like not enough or I don't know. I wish not enough. I'm just like, I haven't, you know, really incorporated in a really like way that I feel like is life changing or efficient.
- [37:29]
A
Watching him walk us through what his day looks like using AI. I was floored. I was floored. And showing us what these AI agents produce for him. I was floored. Like I couldn't believe it. Like they basically like don't have designers and devs anymore. They are spitting out landing pages like it's going out of style that are so good. I was like, he literally did it in front of Us. He was like, okay, Mantis, I want a landing page with blah, blah, blah. And the first version was like. I was like, that. You can go live with that right now. And he's like, oh, we're gonna. And I was like, crazy. So, like, what's coming down the pipe?
- [38:16]
B
Yeah.
- [38:16]
A
Is. Is wild. And. And I do think that if you're not. And I know that there is some pride around it, and I know that for me too, like, I know that there is this level of robots building your business for you, but do you not have that?
- [38:36]
B
Oh, no, I don't have that.
- [38:38]
A
Okay.
- [38:38]
B
But I do have. Feel, like, guilt about taking the job away from a human that. That, that. That. That I have.
- [38:49]
A
So how would you navigate that?
- [38:53]
B
I don't know. Maybe it's because, like, you know, I haven't mastered AI well enough to make a, you know, make things that are significantly better than a human. But I think, like, when get to that point where it's just, like, much, much better, then I'll probably. Like, that's the justification. Right.
- [39:15]
A
What's the vision for Pretty tasty.
- [39:20]
B
I mean, I love, like. I think it's like, for me, it's like. I mean, I've been taking collagen, like, ever since I went taking it, but, like, it's a big part of, like, Chinese culture. My grandmother told me that, you know, if you want good skin, like, food is medicine, like, you have to have more collagen. And as an adult, it, you know, it was too difficult and wanted to create something that was delicious, that made taking collagen easy. But I think it's, like, also, like, part of, like, bringing, like, Asian beauty and Asian culture and like, that sort of, like, same sort of ease into people's daily lives. So I'd, like, love to expand on that, but also have it to be fun. So I don't know, looking at. There are different ways to grow the brand that I'm thinking about, but, you know, at the end of the day, I want to keep that spirit of having, like, bringing joy to people and having, you know, it's like, a fun thing to hold in your hand. Yeah.
- [40:28]
A
Do you like protein bars? You could be totally honest. No.
- [40:35]
B
No.
- [40:36]
A
Tell me why.
- [40:38]
B
Because I love eating. And so, like, protein bars, to me, are, like, a convenience when I can't have, like, an actual meal.
- [40:52]
A
But what if the protein bar was actually real food and delicious?
- [41:01]
B
Yeah, I. If. If it were that, I guess. But then I'm also eating a bar. Like, there's like. Like, I don't I want to hear it.
- [41:10]
A
I want to hear it.
- [41:11]
B
Sit with a friend. I guess, like, if we sat together, we're just like having a, you know, instead of having a coffee, having a little protein bar time, maybe that would add to experience.
- [41:19]
A
Let's have a little protein bar time.
- [41:21]
B
I would like that more here.
- [41:22]
A
Why don't you just try? I just want you to try and just give me a. Give me a. Give me an actual response.
- [41:28]
B
So much pressure on camera. But I love the packaging. Thank you very, very.
- [41:34]
A
I'm not going to say much about it, but it's. I just love getting people's responses to it, good or bad. I mean, I'm not going to. I'm going to just. This would be. I want, I want your actual, real take on it for someone who loves food, because I love food too. It took me like two and a half years to make that thing.
- [41:57]
B
Let's go.
- [41:58]
A
No, don't be scared. Don't be scared. You got to go.
- [42:06]
B
I feel really big. Reese's Pieces.
- [42:08]
A
Bingo. That's exactly what it is. But no bad ingredients in that bar. There's no sugar, alcohols, no seed oils. It's gluten free, dairy free, non GMO. It's got 20 grams of protein and 3 grams of creatine.
- [42:28]
B
I'm still figuring out how to take creatine, so this is perfect.
- [42:32]
A
Nailed it. There it is. That's it. That's your daily creatine right there. So, like, I totally respect your thought process on, like, I'm gonna have this instead of like, like a, you know, a bowl of Greek yogurt and fruit.
- [42:48]
B
Yeah.
- [42:50]
A
But I designed that bar to be eaten every day because I hate protein bars because they destroy my. My gut. Totally destroy my gut. And I have yet to find a protein bar. And I also don't do well with whey protein. Like, if I eat whey protein every day, I am pooping. Not in a fun way.
- [43:12]
B
Creatine makes me feel so bloated.
- [43:15]
A
Creatine. So what? Like what? Talk to me about your creatine experience.
- [43:21]
B
Well, I've only tried these creatine gummies, and I probably shouldn't say the brand, but I do not feel good after that. After even my acupuncturist, like, how are you doing still taking those creatine gummies? I'm like, no, I cannot take those.
- [43:38]
A
So I'm here. So I eat two of those bars a day.
- [43:42]
B
Yeah.
- [43:44]
A
And I have had zero, zero gut issue. Okay, I'm gonna turn you on to that bar.
- [43:53]
B
Okay.
- [43:54]
A
Because I think you're gonna. I think you're gonna. I mean, you are. You are. I mean, it's.
- [43:58]
B
I didn't put it down, by the way. It's a.
- [44:00]
A
It's a real treat. It's a treat that. That is sweetened with monk fruit.
- [44:04]
B
Yeah.
- [44:05]
A
And there's real. There's like. It's made with. With nut butter. It's made. I know.
- [44:09]
B
I'm looking at the ingredients.
- [44:11]
A
Anyway, I'm. I'm so happy because I. I was like. I kind of was expecting you to be, like, I don't know, just not for me. And by the way, like, I could take those punches, but I really do think that we've created something special there.
- [44:23]
B
I'm not very good at hiding how I feel.
- [44:25]
A
I knew that about you. I knew that about you. I just. I felt that about you.
- [44:32]
B
No, I love that. My crew team.
- [44:35]
A
That's it. We're going to send you a couple of boxes and get going. Get going on it. This is such a fun combo. It was such a fun combo. I, like, really. I mean, I'm good at connecting with people. That's kind of like what I do best. I think, you know, I'm not the greatest, like, business person, but generating really well, I'm. Maybe I should not say that because that's a story, but I. You're right. I shouldn't say that because I have.
- [45:01]
B
Been good in business. You are a great business person and you built very iconic brands.
- [45:07]
A
Thank you. I think what I. Well, I think because my skill set resides more in human connecting, connection. It's really the. The skill set that I just don't. I never feel like I'm working when I'm sitting and talking to people. But it has. What's it. That has been the fuel for every business. I've done 100.
- [45:27]
B
I think it's the most. I would say that that is like my best attribute. Like, that's my most. I guess, you know, valuable asset is like being my Rolodex and the community that I've built around myself. I think that's. There's no way in. Be. To be successful in business without that. Don't you agree?
- [45:51]
A
I mean, I. There's only one way I know how to do it. And so I think. I think I'm so happy you. You called me out on that. Because I am a person who tends to tell people. Stop telling yourself that story. Right. Like, me saying I'm not. I'm not like, the greatest business person is probably Downplaying my, my journey because I've built multiple businesses at this point. But I guess what I was, what I'm trying to say is that I am a connector and, and, and, and can. And so like, if you asked me right now to go build a pro forma or you know, you know, let's like rework the demand plan, I'd be like, that's, I'm not going to do that. It's like, just not for me. Like I have, I have someone that can do that for sure in a way better than I can. But like, I guess we think that academics and numbers and sense are really what make businesses thrive. Like when people think from the outside, they're like, oh, you know, like it, you know, like a business person is someone that's really in the books and are in the numbers. And the fact is is that like that's not me. It's just not me. And, and I'm so happy you said that though, because that's going to really, really give me some fuel to think about. Like, why would I have said that?
- [47:13]
B
What is the new habit for you? Only say nice things about yourself.
- [47:18]
A
Nailed it. Nailed it. Lastly, to finish, are there any habits that you've, that you've picked up over the years that you've stuck to that have impacted your life in a positive way that are non negotiable?
- [47:34]
B
I think we talked about ima. Like I wake up and I have electrolytes and I have my im8 and I think that's like super important. Just like having that moment to myself. And then I do a gratitude journal every day. Every day. And I've gotten like more spiritual through like, you know, entrepreneurship journey. I like pull tarot cards too. And I think it's more like it's a good tool to sort of start the day with reflection because it's not like it, there's like interpretation in it. It talks, you know, it's like very, I don't want to say like soft advice but like it makes you sort of think about your day and sort of like, what will I do differently today or like this week and sort.
- [48:18]
A
Of.
- [48:21]
B
Live in the moment that I think has been really positive and helpful for me.
- [48:28]
A
So I am eight and electrolytes. You pull tarot cards.
- [48:32]
B
Yeah.
- [48:32]
A
And you write a gratitude journal.
- [48:33]
B
Yeah.
- [48:34]
A
What is your, is your, are you doing like a five minute, five minute journal?
- [48:37]
B
Yeah.
- [48:38]
A
Is that what you use?
- [48:38]
B
Yeah.
- [48:39]
A
And then tarot cards and I'll write.
- [48:42]
B
Based on like the cards. Like you know, thought that helped Me reflect. So like do a little bit more than like the few things that I'm, you know, looking forward to or grateful for in the morning.
- [48:53]
A
I've had. I think we're at like 200 and something early 220s here on the, on the show. Yet to have someone tell me that they pull tarot cards. Tell us about that before we finish because I think that's a really interesting.
- [49:09]
B
Yeah, I got into it because a good friend of mine, Angie, is this very famous tarot card reader. She's like third generation tarot reader here in New York, in la. She was just on the Real Housewives and predicted a bunch of things. They're very big CEOs that who we all know who go to her for advice. And so like she sort of like started teaching me how to read cards and, and so I just like, it's like more like, you know, a way to like, like I said, it's reflective. Like I pull a few cards like and based on each card give like some sort of, you know, advice. Like it'll be like, you know, don't get too attached to something or try to think, what is it?
- [50:13]
A
Is it like just a randomized thing? You shuffle the cards and then you just pull?
- [50:17]
B
Well, no, I actually shuffle it and I wait for cards to pop out on their own.
- [50:24]
A
What do you mean they magically just pop out?
- [50:26]
B
I'm send you a video. But yes.
- [50:30]
A
What, like something pulls them out?
- [50:33]
B
It's just like, you know, when you shuffle cards, like they don't always go like, just like some of them just like don't just come out on their own. I don't know how to describe it.
- [50:44]
A
Wow, this is so interesting. Okay, so maybe this is something I should try. Do you read tarot cards for other people? Bring that mic a little bit closer.
- [50:54]
B
Oh, I've had friends who've asked me to. I don't think I'm good at doing that because I really think it's a way to tap into your own thoughts. I don't have the ability to do it for other people.
- [51:14]
A
So I can just go buy a pack of tarot cards and shuffle them up in the morning and then kind of just wait to see what comes out.
- [51:21]
B
Oh my God. I'm going to start getting really. This like set is from my friend. We happen to have the same birthday. I feel like a special connection to it. So I've really not done it with another deck of cards.
- [51:36]
A
So you've only done it with one deck of cards?
- [51:37]
B
Yeah, I have like other Cards, but, like, they're not the same. Like, real, but.
- [51:43]
A
So for someone getting their first set of tarot cards, can they literally just go onto Amazon and just say, send me a set of tarot cards?
- [51:49]
B
Yeah, I guess. Pick one that you really like. Like, just don't get anyone. Like, go look at a few and see which ones.
- [51:56]
A
Like, the actual cards themselves, you mean. Yeah.
- [51:58]
B
Appeal to you?
- [51:59]
A
Okay. This is very interesting. I kind of think that this would be. This could be a very fun thing to do with not only myself, but, like, as, like, a family thing, you know, with the kids.
- [52:09]
B
It's fun. Her set has. Also has a song with every card, so she also does, like, readings based on, like, songs that play.
- [52:20]
A
What's her name?
- [52:21]
B
Angie Banake.
- [52:22]
A
Angie Banake. Where'd you meet her?
- [52:26]
B
At a house party. I used to. Not really a house party, but, like, at a friend threw a party. And I didn't realize. She was like. She brought her deck of cards, and I walked in, and she was like, sit down. Don't tell me anything about you. And then she started, like, shuffling cards and basically read my life to me.
- [52:51]
A
Wow. Yeah, I've had. I've had a couple of readings throughout my.
- [52:56]
B
Yeah.
- [52:57]
A
Life. Probably it's either been two or three, and it's unbelievable. What, these.
- [53:07]
B
Yeah.
- [53:08]
A
Like, I don't even call them enlightened, but just, like, spiritually sensitive people.
- [53:15]
B
Yeah.
- [53:16]
A
Are able to do.
- [53:17]
B
Yeah. I've had a lot of, like, bad, like, psychic readings before, but the ones.
- [53:23]
A
That I've had have all been insanely legit. Like, insane. Like, knew everything and talked about people that I didn't even know. And so I. When she. When the. This one woman was, like, reading, you know, she. She was. It was over the phone, and she. She was spitting out all these names, and I wrote down the names because I was like, I don't know who that is. I know who that is. I know who that is. I don't know who that is or who that is. And I called my mother after the reading, and I was like, hey, do you know who any of these people are? And they were like, great, great uncles or. Yeah, it's crazy. And she. She told me I had a really, really tough relationship with my father. Like, a really, really tough one. And he never really said he loved me before he died. And she told me, and I just called this woman randomly. A friend of mine was like, you just call this woman. See if she has time. Book a time. I called her up, and she was like, I can go right Now. And I was like, okay. Like, great. She knew nothing about me. And then she began to tell me that my father was. Is very, very sorry about our time together. But she said that he is pointing to his throat and his heart and his throat. And she's basically. She metabolized that as he had a block between his heart and his head and was never able to express the love. Like, wild. I mean, I exploded, right? Like, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, this guy. You know, if this is real, like this, it kind of explains some of the stuff, you know? So, I mean, anything else? Anything else? Super funky.
- [55:06]
B
This really took a turn. Let's get funky. I have an energy healer.
- [55:11]
A
Okay. Like a Reiki.
- [55:14]
B
So she does it over zoom.
- [55:16]
A
Okay.
- [55:17]
B
Like, kind of like the person you spoke to. And. And, like, she'll, like, clear your chakras. So, like, if there is a block, like, you can't, you know, talk about your feelings as much, she'll, like, unblock it, but, like, can you feel it? Yeah. So, like, normally the first part, she'll be like, do you have questions? And she'll, like, bring up, like, random things, like, say, for, like, um. When I, you know, took that role with, like, Deepak Chopra, like, a week before, I, like, I was lost. It was after Sugar Break. I didn't know what I was doing. I'm like, this. A friend had recommended her. I called her because I don't know what else I was gonna do. And she was like, don't worry. Like, next week you're starting her new job. I'm like, that doesn't work like that. Like, not like, not at my level. Like, I haven't interviewed for anything. There's nothing in the pipeline. She's like, don't even worry. Like, next week, starting new job. Literally got a call, and it was like, also, like, another, like, investor who went to invest in my last company who was, like, on the call. Can you start now? So it was crazy. And she said a whole bunch of other stuff, like, of people that I never mentioned. And then the part when she, like, clears your chakras, she was just like, go lie down. I'll text you when I'm done. I could, like, feel, like, movement in me and in my stomach. And, like, she texts me. She's like, sorry what I did to your stomach, but you're fine now from Vegas.
- [56:59]
A
Are you serious?
- [57:00]
B
Yeah.
- [57:02]
A
Wow. What's her name?
- [57:05]
B
Brooke Welch.
- [57:08]
A
Brooke Welch.
- [57:09]
B
I'm just gonna send you all this stuff.
- [57:11]
A
Yeah, I want all this stuff. I mean, I love that stuff, I mean, I really love that stuff. I mean my grandmother was an energy healer and she was, she, her, like she was an entrepreneur. Her store was a crystal store. She's like, she was deep into the world of crystal healing.
- [57:25]
B
And I'm the first person you've spoken to about this stuff?
- [57:30]
A
Well, I mean I had exposure from my grandmother because she was.
- [57:33]
B
No, I mean on the pod.
- [57:34]
A
Yeah.
- [57:34]
B
Like, how is this possible?
- [57:36]
A
No one has talked about tarot and energy healing on the pod. Really. I mean I had. So there's a, there's a practitioner that I had on the podcast and she does a very interesting type of therapy. Oh God, what's it called? Something with a K. I can't, I'm spacing it. But basically she rewires the neural pathways through balance. And you like stand on. So basically you stand on one foot, you. And your body kind of starts. She starts, she says this thing and then like kind of like out of nowhere your body will just start to sway and start to move and she'll ask a question and your body will either move one side to side or front to back. And that is the alignment. And so I was bet I was really struggling with a situation with an employee that was, that was leaving my company and it was re. And he did a lot for the company and it wasn't very pretty and I was super duper stressed out and I was putting a lot of energy into it. Even though I knew I shouldn't have been putting the energy into the negativity of it. Like I should have been focused on like, okay, well maybe there's going to be a new opportunity with somebody that's better or something. Anyway, she completely through this work, two sessions with her 100% absolutely just flattened my stress over it. Flattened it was gone. Like I did not associate that person and that situation to struggling. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is wild. So like I so love those things, you know, And I think that they're, you know, the audacity for people in the world to just think that like there's nothing like, like it, like, like our bodies are just who we are and there's no soul and there's no spirit and like there's no other like dimension to tap into to potentially optimize and benefit our lives. You know, like you obviously have to be an open minded person. Right. Like I've, I've personally done an enormous amount of spiritual work personally and you know, are you, do you are, do you have like a faith practice no.
- [59:57]
B
But I feel like because I'm Chinese, like, it's so embedded in our culture. Like feng shui is like, woo, woo. You know, like all the psychics, it's like part of like, you know, my mom takes me, you know, mainly to ask when I'm gonna get married. You know, like, you know, you know, like stuff like that is just like, or zodiacs, like all of that is just like I kind of grew up with. That's like just part of what, you know, we believed in. Like you believe or not, like you never want to know that something might cause you bad luck and you still do it anyway, right. So then these superstitions just like, I think just makes me more open minded to these things.
- [60:36]
A
What, what a turn. I love. But, but, but what? The conversation is awesome. You're amazing. How can people follow along your journey and also check out Pretty Tasty, obviously.
- [60:49]
B
Please follow us on social. So it's drink Pretty Tasty and follow me on LinkedIn. Just look up my name or Instagram, which is also just my name.
- [61:00]
A
This is great. And I really can't thank you enough for coming on the show.
- [61:04]
B
Thank you for having me. This was so fun.
- [61:06]
A
Entrepreneurs, I am sure that you were engaged and on the edge of your seat, specifically about the tarot card reading and the energy healing. I get fired up on that stuff. I really do. I get fired up because I'm like, the way I kind of like receive information like that is. Let's just say it's real, right? Let's just say it is real. Like imagine one day someone was like, oh yeah, the tarot card thing, 100% real real, like science real. Let's just say it's real and you have an opportunity to try things that could potentially just give you guidance, give you hope in darker times, you know, let's just say it's real. Why wouldn't you try? It doesn't matter how serious you are, how like fucking famous you are, how successful you are. Like, there are these things that have been that have existed for hundreds, if not thousands of years that lots and lots of people believe. And it's not a heavy lift to attempt some of these things. And I know I'm talking to the world of entrepreneurs right now. So, like, I'm just asking you to break out of the shell of, you know, one plus one equals two all the time. And although I know that there's a large group of entrepreneurs that are dreamers and visionaries and are totally like, you know, Scarlett and I, where, you know, we're just like, fuck it, let's go for it. Like, oh, yeah, this is going to tell me something great. That's going to make me feel good. Like, yeah, let's go take a risk. Take a risk. And yeah, I mean, it just put like, it like really opened my heart to have that, to finish this, this chat about that because I think, you know, we need to sometimes break the rules, bend the rules a little bit and just like step outside of the box that, you know, the world wants us to live in, which is build businesses and make fuck tons of money, which is also awesome. But, you know, there's like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, a lot of life out outside of that. Anyways, you guys rock. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast, subscribing to the podcast, and if you don't subscribe to the podcast, subscribe. Hit that mother effing button. Subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss content from the creatures that have a podcast. I love doing this show and you guys subscribing really helps us grow it. A five star rating in a review would be wonderful. However, the only rent I really ask you to pay is sharing the podcast with your friends. Share the podcast, post it on social media, tag us and, and we'll repost and yeah, I appreciate you guys. Until the next one, y'. All, Peace.