The Leadership Skill That Changes Everything | Dr. Michelle Johnston | Kreatures of Habit Podcast

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Kreatures Of Habit

Episode: The Leadership Skill That Changes Everything
Host: Michael Chernow
Guest: Dr. Michelle Johnston
Date: December 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Michael Chernow sits down with Dr. Michelle Johnston, executive coach, best-selling author, and leadership expert. Their wide-ranging conversation explores why connection is an underrated superpower in leadership and life, and how intentional habits and boundaries around time, energy, and relationships drive personal fulfillment and professional success. With stories from their own experiences and research, Michael and Dr. Johnston advocate for a "seismic shift": re-prioritizing relationships—starting with self-connection—to combat today’s crisis of disconnection in the tech-driven, productivity-obsessed world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Connection as the Core Leadership Skill

• Connection beats IQ: Dr. Johnston describes an exercise with leaders at all levels, noting that when asked to name qualities of their best bosses, nearly all responses fall under emotional intelligence, not intellectual ability or functional skills.

  "Your IQ will get you in the door. Absolutely. It's your EQ that makes you a great leader and a great human." — Dr. Johnston [05:16]

• Shift from 'what' to 'who': Both guests agree that success is too often measured in tasks and output rather than quality relationships.

  "Productivity without connection equals emptiness." — Dr. Johnston [24:16]

2. The Crisis of Disconnection

• Technology’s double-edge: The ubiquity of smartphones and remote work is driving social isolation, especially post-pandemic.

  "The number one determinant of our health and our longevity is connection... Yet now we’re looking around, and even in New York City, everyone’s bumping into each other because they’re looking down at their phones." — Dr. Johnston [08:49]

• Personal anecdote: Both hosts share moments where phone use detracted from real-world connection, emphasizing the urgency of the problem.

3. Habits and Calendar Mastery for Fulfillment

• Structuring time for relationships: Michael shares how he color-codes and "chunks" his calendar, placing not just work, but workouts, family breakfast, and date nights as non-negotiables.

  "If they don’t reflect the most important people in your life, come on now..." — Dr. Johnston [24:00] "Every Friday night is date night. It’s in the calendar. Like, it’s just... I do." — Michael Chernow [23:30]

• Setting boundaries is essential: Both lament America’s glorification of constant busyness and shaming of rest, advocating for mandatory time off and modeling work-life balance for teams.

  "I do not expect an email after 6 o’clock. I do not expect you to be on your email before 9. I require you to take vacations twice a year." — Michael Chernow [37:26]

4. Self-Priority Enables Leadership

• Self-care is not selfish: Michael and Michelle stress that prioritizing one’s own wellness is the foundation for showing up fully for others.

  "If you are going to be great at connecting with anybody, you have to be great at connecting with what fuels you, what you should hold sacred." — Dr. Johnston [25:14] "I am my priority, period. Done—before my wife, before my kids, before my business, all of it." — Michael Chernow [28:08]

• The "go-to-bed" alarm: Replacing the end-of-day scroll with disciplined sleep habits fuels morning routines and overall happiness.

  "The go to bed alarm is arguably the most powerful tool anybody can introduce into their lives... going to bed at 9:30 and waking up at 5 or 5:30 is the secret sauce to happiness." — Michael Chernow [30:36/00:00]

5. Leading with Heart in Business

• Humanity in leadership: Dr. Johnston urges leaders to move beyond transactional management—appreciate people as whole humans, not just employees.

  "What I’m advocating for is just—show up human and see your people as human." — Dr. Johnston [39:15]

• Integration over compartmentalization: The notion of having a “work self” and “home self” is outdated. Modern leadership requires authenticity across domains.

6. Practical Tools for Connection

• Meetings as connection opportunities: Dr. Johnston recommends starting meetings with connection-based questions, sharing agendas, and using breakout rooms to foster inclusion and deeper understanding.

  "Begin with a connection question. Get to know your people... Rather than having agenda items, have agenda questions." — Dr. Johnston [52:52]

• Courage and vulnerability: Real connection, especially for type-A or previously “jerk bosses,” demands courage to be vulnerable, receive feedback, and empower others instead of micromanaging.

7. Influence of Foundational Books and Studies

• Dale Carnegie’s 'How to Win Friends and Influence People': Both reflect on its validation that heart-led connection is a strength, not a vulnerability.

  "I felt like the book was written about me... That superpower came to the surface for me and said, 'Holy smokes. This is what I do.'" — Michael Chernow [59:31]

• The Harvard Study of Adult Development: They reference this long-term study proving the single best predictor of happiness is the quality of personal relationships.

  "It matters most, in terms of happiness, the quality of your relationships, your personal relationships." — Michael Chernow [63:04]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the fundamental shift in leadership:

  "Connection pays off; it's not a soft skill, it's a power skill, and you need to work at it. It's got to be intentional."
  — Dr. Johnston [34:43]

• On the trap of productivity:

  "So many executives, particularly CEOs... end up feeling empty because they didn't prioritize relationships."
  — Dr. Johnston [24:44]

• On calendar and priorities:

  "If you don't plan them and put it on your calendar, they don't get done. So that's the shift that I want, is to go from what to who."
  — Dr. Johnston [15:07]

• On setting boundaries for teams:

  "I do not expect a response from an email after 6 o’clock... I require you to take vacations twice a year. It is necessary. You must do it."
  — Michael Chernow [37:26]

• On leading with energy:

  "Energy is not experienced through words necessarily... Eyes wide open and a smile, like, that—what you just did—sent awesome energy my way."
  — Michael Chernow [44:41]

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Connection vs. IQ/EQ in leadership – [04:09–05:38]
• Technology’s impact on genuine connection – [08:45–14:29]
• Structuring the calendar for relationships & wellness – [21:24–24:00], [25:14–28:08]
• Building connection into leadership meetings – [52:33–55:13]
• Dr. Johnston on ‘The Seismic Shift In You’ book – [55:26–58:47]
• Dale Carnegie and the power of connection – [59:04–63:04]
• The Harvard study’s findings on happiness – [62:46–63:26]

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The Seismic Shift: Dr. Johnston’s Book

• Purpose: To provide actionable, practical shifts for leaders and individuals to reclaim connection as the core of effective leadership and satisfying life—especially amid AI and tech expansion.
• Seven Necessary Shifts: From prioritizing ‘who’ over ‘what’, putting yourself first, reframing meetings and conversations, to being mindful of energy and language.
• Takeaway: Tiny, intentional tweaks create a life and leadership style centered on meaningful connection.

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Conclusion

Michael Chernow and Dr. Michelle Johnston deliver a passionate, evidence-backed argument: connection, not just achievement, shapes our lifelong fulfillment and effectiveness as leaders. The seismic shift required? Start with yourself, carve boundaries for what (and who) matters, and courageously foster real, human interactions—in business and beyond. The episode is both a practical guide and a persuasive rallying cry for anyone ready to trade transactional busyness for a more connected, purpose-driven life.

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For more from Dr. Michelle Johnston:

• Book: "The Seismic Shift in You" — Available via Amazon, local bookstores, and audiobook
• Coaching & Resources: michellekjohnston.com

For more on Creatures of Habit and Michael Chernow:

• Creatures of Habit Website (with a 'K')

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Transcript

[A]

The go to bed alarm is arguably the most powerful tool anybody can introduce into their lives on a regular basis. Going to bed at 9:30 and waking up at 5 or 5:30 is. Is the secret sauce to happiness because you fill the cup between 5 and 7 in the morning.

[B]

Michael, it's so sad. I can't tell you how many executives over the years that I've coached who've achieved great success. And when I say, on a scale of 1 to 10, how are you doing? Kind of an end of the year check in. They said Michelle, and a lot of them are on zoom. They're like, you can't see me, but I've gained 25 pounds. I'm in back to back zooms all day. I barely see my family. What can I do? And that's what I want people to recognize, that the seismic shift in you is ba bam. You do have the control, right, of how you schedule your life. And even if you're working for a company, if they want you to be the best leader, then you've got to manage your calendar with 15 minutes in between those zooms. So if you're trying to be the best, most inspirational leader for your people and you are depressed and you have no energy and you haven't exercised in so long and you've gained all this weight and you don't feel good, the energy that you bring to those calls is not good. It's like, do you really want to be the best dad, the best husband, the best leader, the best this? Well, then put yourself first.

[A]

An entrepreneur straight out of New York City. Michael Chernow. What's cracking? So, yeah, so, you know, we. We fell in love. Not only, like, you know, I've been with my wife forever. Like, it was like a great, you know, we're on top of each other a lot in the pandemic. So, like, you know, there's a lot of shit that you got to go through with that, but upstate New York is just arguably one of the most beautiful places in the world. I mean, it is so spring, summer, fall, it's just like. It's paradise, you know?

[B]

That sounds wonderful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm so happy for you. Thank you. One of my colleagues, Tasha Urich, was on your podcast, and we were together recently, and she was singing your praises.

[A]

Oh, that's insane.

[B]

Yeah. And the wife and the two little kids, so don't make me do the math. How old are the kids now?

[A]

10 and 8.

[B]

Oh, those might be the best ages. I don't know, though. Every age is so good. Those are good ages.

[A]

They're like basically at the stage now where they might as well be adults. Like they're just self sufficient and you know, the coolest thing about living in rural New York or just in rural, in a rural environment is that like they're just outside all the time and there's like no supervision. Like there's not, they don't have to worry about cars and like they're just out on the property we got. I got very lucky with a prop. I bought a big property years ago, was nothing. Now since the pandemic, I mean so many people from New York moved up there.

[B]

But Michael, I'm so happy for you. Thank you. That is beautiful.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you for having me today.

[A]

I mean, you know, when I, when I started doing diligence on your stuff, I was like, this is my people. Right.

[B]

Like, felt the same way.

[A]

I've never been known for my intellectual, you know, accolades, but my, my ability to connect totally. Right. Like, and your, your, your whole entire philosophy on success in business and just in life is the ability to connect.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I have a question for people that rest on their intellectual laurels, right. And that is their calling card. How do you talk to those people about connection being a more powerful skill set?

[B]

Great question. And I do an exercise in my leadership class every semester to prove this point. So I ask them. And I also, I run various leadership academies. So not just for students but for mid level managers. I run the Saints Leadership Academy. We do this exercise every year. I give them sticky notes. I said, I want you just to think right now, imagine, try to remember your best boss. Your best boss, why was he or she great? Take three sticky notes and write down three characteristics.

[A]

Why?

[B]

And so then I've got a Venn diagram on the whiteboard. You've got iq, EQ and fq. So you have that intellectual quotient, emotional quotient, and the functional quotient. I said go ahead. And so Sometimes I have 50 students, 50 members of a leadership academy. Go ahead and put your sticky notes. Do you know how many of them end up in iq? Typically two at the most. It is all emotional intelligence. It's about how your leader made you feel. You knew that they cared about you, believed in you, they inspired you. So to answer your question, those who believe that it's my IQ that's going to get your IQ will get you in the door. Absolutely. It's your EQ that makes you a great leader and a great human.

[A]

What? So there's, there are just People and like, this is a very open, easy to easygoing podcast, so you can. I'm going to cuss because it's just part of my. That's unfortunately something that I struggle with. But like, there are just assholes out there, right?

[B]

Woo. So I would not still have a job if they weren't still jerk bosses.

[A]

So, like, how do you talk to them?

[B]

I have great empathy for jerk bosses. You want to know why? I think I was one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Back in my 20s, I think I was 28 years old, brand new MBA professor, trying to prove myself. Looking around, nobody looked like me, nobody acted like me, nobody had my energy at 8am it was obnoxious, it drove the students crazy. I wanted to be successful. And so I became a jerk boss without even realizing it, you know, and so I have great empathy for jerk bosses. That old style, however, of command control, authoritarian micromanagement, it's just no longer effective. Michael. Whether it, I think it was for a while, I'm a Gen Xer. I mean, I was like, aye aye, sir. Whatever you say, you say jump, I say how. I. I don't ask any questions. I do it. I get it done. I was a latchkey kid, like, man, I got this. And then all of a sudden, the generations change and millennials, I remember staring at me probably in 2000, and they said, we don't want to be like you are. And now we have the Gen Zs. I've got a 21 year old that's a Gen Zer. She doesn't want to be like me, loves me, doesn't want to be like me. So we have these generations where they're like, we see you and we choose differently. And, and so that's why that jerk boss, they're still out there. I have great empathy because they're probably doing what they were taught, how they were mentored, maybe their little league coach, their father, their mother. Somebody showed them that to be a jerk boss was effective. It doesn't work anymore. You're not going to attract top talent, you're not going to retain top talent, you're not going to get the best out of your people. So the seismic shift in you is really the book that I just wrote with Marshall Goldsmith. The first book I wrote was all about leadership because I had that aha moment, like, oh shit. Since you gave me permission to curse, it was an oh shit moment. Like, that's me. Oh Lord. That didn't work for me. I was able to pivot. Let me now help the jerk bosses who may not Know that they need to pivot. So I wrote that first book in leadership, this book now the Seismic Shift in youn Is. It's because now we've got an addiction to our phones and technology. So do you remember, Michael, when campuses used to be buzzing? You'd walk through a university campus and there was a buzz. There was energy, electricity. You'd walk into a classroom before the professor walked in, there was a buzz. You'd walk to the cafeteria, you'd go to the coffee shop. Correct.

[A]

Everybody's heads down.

[B]

Correct. So we've got a problem.

[A]

Big one.

[B]

Huge. And all the research is coming in saying that it's not as much as you and I both value exercise. And we'll talk about that and sleep and our diet, how important that is. The number one determinant of our health and our longevity is connection. That's all the research is coming in. And yet now we're looking around. Even in New York City, you're walking and you bump into people constantly because. Cause they're looking down on their phones. And you can laugh about it, but it's kind of dangerous, right? We're becoming more and more and more focused on just this and less and less focused on this.

[A]

Well, you know what's so interesting? That they're still called phones.

[B]

Great point.

[A]

They're still called phones and yet nobody ever talks on them.

[B]

Oh, my God. I never thought about that. Oh, my goodness. Well, let's come up with what should the word be? We're gonna name it on this episode. We are addicted to, to our.

[A]

Our platform, our technology. So I, I, I. My thought process here is our phones have the best. Speaking of phones, of course my phone is buzzing right now. Let me turn this thing off.

[B]

Well, I think it was perfectly timed.

[A]

Yeah, someone's calling me. Actually, that, that could have.

[B]

That would have been a phone call, talking to them.

[A]

So our phones have the best lives, right? Like, they are. They get all the attention. They see everything before we do. So something great happens. It's going to be right in front of our face. It's going to capture it, and we're going to look through it through their lens. The phones have the best freaking lives. And the beauty of that for the people that create those phones, is that they now know what everybody on the freaking planet is doing. And I'm not like one of these, like, oh, God. You know, like, they're conspiracy theorists. They're tracking everything, but they are tracking everything. And we don't get to experience it. Our phones do. And so I Have actually just invested a decent amount of cash into something called the light phone. And I can't wait for it to show up. Unfortunately, it doesn't show up till February. But the light phone is a phone that has a phone you can text message on, has a calendar, it has a note taker, it does have a camera and it has a gps and that is it. No social media, no social media, no email, no nothing. Some of the biggest deals in business history, if not the biggest deals happen prior to email and phone. It just is a fact, right? The Rockefellers got rich way before the phones. The Ford family way before the phones. They just did. And we have set the expectation in business that we need to be hyper available. There is no room for, you know, you. Somebody writes you an email, if they don't get a response within two hours, they're like, what's going on with this person? It is terrible and terrifying and terrifying. And it is the antithesis of connection. It is the. It robs our lives and you know, like we are judged. And I've been saying this a lot because I think it's important to say because humans are judged. And I will say this like humans are judged based on in America anyway. The job they have, the car they drive, the home they live in, the watch they wear, the clothes they wear, that is what they are judged on. That is actually what. When somebody walks into a room, somebody is sizing that person up and they're not asking, they're not thinking to themselves, how many friends do they have? What do they do for fun? What kind of hobbies does that person have? Like, imagine everybody was judged on that. Imagine everybody was judged on the quality of their relationships.

[B]

Imagine that's what my whole book is about. You are absolutely right. And this is terrifying. And I'll never forget as I was listening to you talk, Michael, I had this. My mom has since passed that, but I had this vivid memory of when the smartphones just came out and I was visiting her and we were talking and she lived on a lake and this beautiful surrounding and we hadn't seen each other face to face. And my phone, somebody texted me. I was like, oh my gosh. And I immediately started texting back. It was one of the first reactions. And she looked at me, she goes, I'm right in front of you. Why are you doing that? And that was at the very beginning of all of this insanity. Now that's what everybody does. Something vibrates and you give the attention to this and not this. And when I walk into A classroom. And now what I teach is this connection stuff, so my students know it's very small and we have to. We do role plays, we do exercises, empathy, listening, asking great questions, values, all that stuff. It's one of those classes. So not in my class, but when I walk by, like I said earlier, and the class is waiting to start, no one is talking. No one. Okay, so we both agree we're in a serious crisis. That's what I believe that we're in.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

So again, all of the research is now out there, but I don't think people are even reading that. How lonely, isolated and depressed we are feeling as a result to our addiction and codependency. And it's only going to get worse with AI. Okay, so we need to do things differently, you and I both know. But how are we going to get everybody else on the page? We got to pivot. And so I think it's about when you're talking about calendar and how important. I love your model of how you do your podcast. I do mine on Tuesdays. You do yours once a month, you stack it, you figure out how to own your calendar. Right. How in the world are we going to get people to switch from what task, task, task, task productivity, productivity, you know, to do list and busyness to who? That's what I'm trying to get people to pivot to. So you say we're judged on what we wear. I mean, I thought hard about, like, I wanna, like, you're a cool guy. I'm gonna try to be a cool girl today. Like, I don't wanna wear my usual kind of suit. Like, I wanna be a little bit more real. Right. I really was intentional and kind of thought about that. Right? Because I know I'm gonna be judged and I want me to shine like who I am and not put on a false appearance. And so when you think about so much of a calendar day, people determine their success and their effectiveness on task, task, task. What, what, what? Productivity at the end of the day. Oh, look at my to do list. Yes, I can go to bed now. And yet the who's not there. The most important people in your life are not on your calendar. You're not embedding them. You're not making time. You're not holding Taco Tuesday sacred. You're not holding coffees with your girlfriend sacred. You're not taking those family vacations. I just got on my 80 year old. I got on his case. I said, dad, we have not taken a family vacation in forever. You are 80 and you're magnificent. We have to do these things. If you don't plan them and put it on your calendar, they don't get done. So that's the shift that I want is to go from what to who? And then that's the first shift. And then that changes everything.

[A]

Interrupting this episode to share with you that Creatures of habit finally launched our protein bar. It's called the Daily Bar. It's made with 20 grams of plant based protein, 3 grams of creatine. Yes, you heard that right. It also has 3 grams of creatine. It is incredibly tasty and clean as a whistle. All clean ingredients. Take this opportunity. Hop over to creaturesofhabit.com that's creaturesofhabit.com with a K and use code K O H P O D20 at checkout for 20% off your first order. Back to the pod. I used to as an entrepreneur in my early days, right. I mean, I didn't know better and I think a lot of young entrepreneurs have a similar way of thinking, right. I draw a direct line to my potential success on how many hours a day I'm working.

[B]

Totally. Because you were in the restaurant industry.

[A]

Restaurant industry.

[B]

You slept what, for four hours a night?

[A]

If that. I mean, it was bad. And the first two years, you know, my wife, the reason why we bought our house upstate was because my wife basically took me aside. After two years of not taking a day off and working legit 16 hours a day, she took me aside and she said, michael, you know, and we were young too, you know, she was like, I don't know you, I just don't know you and I love you, but this is not going to be sustainable. Like. And I looked at her with full conviction and total agreement and I said, you're right, you're right. And what I'm going to tell you is very real. If I don't leave physically New York City, it is going to be very hard for me to stay out of this place. Like, it will be very hard. And I'm telling you that honestly. So my solution, and you know, men like to try to fix things, probably to a fault, but my solution was we need to find a place to go on the weekends. And that was the first step in me understanding that not only should work life balance, not only is work life balance a real thing, it has to become part of your philosophy as far as I'm concerned. I've been told, oh, there's no such thing as worth work life balance. And I'm like, that is just absolute bs. You have a choice.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

You have a choice.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And if you don't set boundaries for yourself, yes, you are an irresponsible entrepreneur. You will never ever actually be able to sustain that kind of life with happiness and community and connection. Yes. If you do not create hard and fast boundaries for your life. And I had a guy named Gino Wickman. Do you know Gino Wickman? So Gino Wickman, he start. He. He founded something called the Entrepreneurial's Operating System, eos.

[B]

Oh, of course.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A bunch of my executives use EOs, right. So I didn't realize he started it.

[A]

So he started it. And I had him on the podcast in the beginning of the pandemic. And this guy is very successful, you know, like just a great guy. And I'm talking to him and he's like, Michael, I take 150 days off every year.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

And I was like, What? He's like 150 at minimum. And I was like, okay, well, first and foremost, like, he's not ashamed to say that. And he's actually. Not only is he not ashamed to say that, he is fucking proud to say that. And I was like, okay, can you please break this down for me so that I can. So that some of that could rub off. Right? Because I had gotten way better, but I was still.

[B]

You were not there.

[A]

No. And so he said, I'll break it down for you. I work. I take off every weekend. Do not work on the weekend. Do not open up the computer. Do not do it. Do not check emails. Do not do it. 52 times 2 is 104. So I take 104 days off just by weekends alone. And then he says, I take two 10 day vacations every year. That is 124 days. And then I take the whole month of August off with my family. And we might stay home, we might go on a vacation, but the whole month of August I am not working. I am taking a mini sabbatical every August to reset and appreciate my life. And I was like, man, he's my hero. That is just it. And let me tell you something, that's amazing. I'm there.

[B]

No way. I was gonna ask you, but then I was like, ooh, am I gonna put you on the spot? You're there.

[A]

I'm two weeks shy. I take at least two weeks off in August, but I don't take the full month. Yet.

[B]

You don't work on weekends?

[A]

I do not work on weekends.

[B]

I don't Work on weekends.

[A]

Do not work on weekends.

[B]

And then let's talk about calendar. This is fabulous. So then you stack. You have. Once a month I do this.

[A]

My calendar is chunked. So, like the way. My calendar. I'll show you my calendar. My calendar is chunked out. So I basically have these chunks.

[B]

Yep. Color code them. If you all could see it. It's color coded. Yep.

[A]

But I chunk it up. So I've got my morning workout in the calendar.

[B]

Yes, me too. Every morning. And I no longer give that up. Ever.

[A]

It's my. It's. It's in the calendar.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I have fam. Breakfast.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the calendar. I've got kids to school in the calendar. Drive to office in the calendar.

[B]

You have an office upstate?

[A]

I have an office upstate.

[B]

Okay. With people or just you?

[A]

Just me.

[B]

A place to.

[A]

We're all, we're all remote.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I have. My first tranche of work is from 9 to 11 where I'm working. And my assistant can schedule meetings if she wants to, but that would be the meeting block. I don't take meetings outside of this block unless it's absolutely necessary outside of the team. So there's team meetings, but there's no like marketing meeting.

[B]

Finance. Right.

[A]

Well, no. So like, I will, I will have those intermittently throughout the week, but I will not take like a pitch meeting. I will not take like, you know, somebody wanting to introduce me to a new service meeting. It's just strictly. The only meetings that I take outside of this block are with my internal team. And then I've got a chunk between 2 and 5 where I'm typically calling customers. And this is where I'm like, smashing, smashing work. So I'm focused on the computer and I call customers. And like, that's how I chunk up my, My, my schedule. Because like you said. Right. Oh, and then when are you off?

[B]

When do you cut it? When do you say so off.

[A]

Off is at 6 o'. Clock. There is not a. I do not. It's every, Every Friday night is date night. It's in the calendar. It's just in the calendar. Like, it's just, you know, and so like, I, I was so happy when you said, like, we don't put the people that we love. And like, you do.

[B]

You do?

[A]

I do. I do.

[B]

Because very few people do.

[A]

Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure less than 0.001% do. And you know, I think the calendar, like you had said, is. It's just, it's just so important to.

[B]

Have structure there's reflection of the priorities in your life, and if they don't reflect the most important people in your life. Come on now. So we just literally covered the top three. I think the most important shifts that I talk about in this new book is that shift from what to who to that connection mindset, right? Because I truly believe I just came up with this walking my cute little Millie dog around the park. I believe that productivity without connection equals emptiness. And I think so many, at least Americans, got on the productivity train or the treadmill or the hamster wheel, and they're struggling, getting off, right? But yet so many executives, particularly CEOs, who get to the very top rung end up feeling empty because they didn't prioritize relationships. They put it in any case. So that first shift is huge. And then the second shift, it will surprise many listeners. Not you. The second shift caught me by surprise because here I am writing a book. I took an entire year sabbatical. I'm writing this book with Marshall Goldsmith, who has been my mentor, my hero. New York Times bestseller, I think 43 books. Number one executive coach in the world, number one global thought leader, at least in my world, which is leadership. So he's co authoring. He's retired, co authoring this book with me. Cause he believes in me. I take the year off and I think I have an idea of this book all about connection and humanity and heart and because we're in this crisis. And then I realized the second shift. Here I am telling everybody, you have to shift towards connection, towards the who. But then I realized the second shift of prioritization has to be you first. If you are going to be great at connecting with anybody, you have to be great at connecting of what fuels you, what you should hold sacred. So if exercise is important to you. I used to give. I used to give all of that up. If a client called, somebody wanted me on a podcast. Michael, if you had called and said 8am I would have said, screw Pilates, I'll see you then. Now I'm like, michael, you got another time. I really need to do Pilates every morning for me. But I had gone through years of saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, at a great cost.

[A]

Great cost.

[B]

You know that. Does it still do this? I haven't had a dead battery in a while. But in the older cars, when you had a dead battery, it used to click, click, click, click.

[A]

Yeah, it does that.

[B]

I didn't even have a click left when I got my dead battery. Like, I had nothing left. Thinking I was doing the right thing. And I'm sure many of your listeners can relate to that. When you think, oh, but man, I've got this great opportunity. I have this best selling book. I want to help as many people as I can. And then you realize, what am I doing? I have no life. You're giving all of your energy, all of your attention, and yet I'll never forget. And I write about this in my book. So My daughter was 20 at the time. She goes to the University of Georgia, and she was home for Christmas break, and she finally sat me down. And I'm in the middle of writing a book on connection. Michael. She said, mom, I've been home for two weeks and I've barely seen you.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

I mean, tears in my eyes, y', all. That got my attention. I studied this. I know this. And yet I hadn't adapted my calendar to reflect that she was home for college for a month. I was like, oh, I'll see her at night at dinner. But she's out every night and I'm working every day. And I didn't take the time to say, wow, I'm gonna have her home for four weeks. Let me pivot and make sure that my calendar is reflecting the most important person in my life after me. Right? Once I hit rock bottom and was so empty, then I prioritize myself first. And it's much easier to do when you're an empty nester. Like, you still have kids at home. Like, once she went to college, it was so much easier for me to say, okay, I can hold every morning at 8am for Pilates sacred. I can hold walking my dog sacred. Dinner with girlfriends, whatever. It's a little bit harder.

[A]

Can I just interrupt you for a second? And I want to say this because I think it's important for people to hear. What you're talking about is so critical. So you said, you know, it's easier for empty nesters. The truth is, is that I am so passionate about that time and putting myself at the top of my totem pole. I am my priority, period. Done. Before my wife, before my kids, before my business, all of it. And that doesn't mean that I am sacrificing time. I have fam. Brekkie on my phone at 7:15 every morning. What does that mean? That at 7:15 every morning, I am at the table with my family, my wife and two kids having breakfast. My day gets going right after that. So the only way that I can achieve these things and make my totem pole my head at the top of the totem pole is if I'm up at 5am doing the things that are going to make me the greatest father, the greatest husband, the greatest business owner, like the greatest CEO. Like I sacrifice that time because I know how critical it is if greatness is what I'm striving for. There's no, like, there's no way I can exude greatness if I'm not actually feeding myself. Great things, yes. Like I'm eating the grateful pie at 5am and that includes fitness and whatever the hell I want to do. If I, you know, I've got a skincare protocol, I've got a sauna and a cold plunge, I've got a journal that I could write in. I can do all sorts of different things because everybody's sleeping. I, I'm not being selfish with their time. I'm doing it in the morning because I'm married with young kids. But I know how critical and how important it is and the biggest piece of this pie and people will tell me, oh, I'm not a morning person, blah, blah, blah, blah. Tell me one great thing that you can remember, great thing that you can remember that happened on a consistent basis after 10 o' clock at night for you.

[B]

Never.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Not even fun.

[A]

Okay. So, so if that's the case. Right. Set the go to bed alarm.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

The go to bed alarm is arguably the most powerful tool anybody can introduce into their lives. Because I promise you, and I'm not saying you have to go to bed at 9:30 every single night of your life. I'm saying if you have an awesome event to go to, enjoy it, Go to the event. Don't sacrifice your sleep. So like, if you go to bed at 1 o' clock in the morning because you were out at this awesome event every couple of weeks or once a month or whatever it is, sleep till 8 o' clock and then skip the morning shit because you're doing something great for yourself at that event.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But on a regular basis, going to bed at 9:30 and waking up at 5 or 5:30 is the secret sauce to happiness. Because you fill the cup between five and seven in the morning, you fill the cup literally. It doesn't like we can control so little of what happens in our lives. Right. Once some person, something walks into our periphery, our control is taken right away from us. I can't control what that person does, what they think, how they judge us, what they're gonna do. I can't control them. But, but I can Control what happens at 5 o' clock in the morning.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Because no one is around. Because not enough people want to put in that fucking time.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know, and so, like, what you're talking about is, you know, people will. I will share that. I. That I am my priority. And I'll get flack from people saying, oh, that's so selfish. Da, da, da, da. And I'm like, selfish smell fish.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

I am showing up at 7 o' clock in the morning when my wife and kids are just getting up. I am showing up truly as the best version of me I can be, Period. Done like I am. If I had just rolled out of bed. We all wake up with that anxiety. All of us do. Everybody wakes up with it. Especially if you don't give yourself any time in the morning. You wake up, you shower, rush this. Like, you're not thinking about the people you love. You're thinking about what's gonna happen in two hours.

[B]

What all the what's.

[A]

So. I'm so happy you said that because I really do think that that's such a great foot in the door for anybody looking to, like, kickstart a different way of walking through life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Prioritize yourself.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Don't selfishly sacrifice the time that you can be spending with others or time at work to prioritize yourself. Prioritize yourself with sacrifice. Wake up early in the morning and then understand the beauty of the quietness in the morning. You know, like, how often do we get to experience quiet time? When we're active, but it's just quiet around us. No one's emailing you, no one's texting you, no one's calling you. No one's up. What percentage of the world do you think actually wakes up at 5am? Very, very few. Intentionally. Yeah, if you have to be at work at 6am, I get it. But. But. And if you have to be at work at 6:00am, I'm not telling you to go wake up at 3:00am, but, like, I would promise you that if you did, your happiness barometer would probably be turned up a bit.

[B]

Oh, absolutely, Michael. It's so sad. I can't tell you how many executives over the years that I've coached who've achieved great success. And when I say, on a scale of 1 to 10, how are you doing? Kind of an end of the year check in. They said Michelle, and a lot of them are on Zoom. They're like, you can't see me, but I've gained 25 pounds. I'm in back to back Zooms all day. I barely see my family. What can I do? And that's the biggest wake up call for them. They're like, but my business demands all of this. And they feel like they don't have control. And that's what I want people to recognize, that that seismic shift in you is ba bam. You do have the control, right, of how you schedule your life. And even if you're working for a company, if they want you to be the best leader, then you've got to manage your calendar with 15 minutes in between those zooms. I mean, your energy is palpable and it even you can feel it on zoom calls. So if you're trying to be the best, most inspirational leader for your people and you are depressed and you have no energy and you haven't exercised in so long and you've gained all this weight and you don't feel good, the energy that you bring to those calls is not good. And so I agree. It has nothing to do with you being selfish. It's like, do you really want to be the best dad, the best husband, the best leader, the best this? Well, then put yourself first and get up and exercise and be with nature and do your routine and eat healthy and manage to where you can bring your best energy. And that's on you. No company is telling you that you can't do that. That's on you. And so that's what I spend probably most of my time coaching clients is trying to convince them that connection pays off, that it's not a soft skill, it's a power skill, and you need to work at it. It's got to be intentional. You have to embed it, and you've got to figure out if your world is Zoom. You have to figure out how to embed the time so that you can show up with the best energy for your people. Because if you're the leader, they're all waiting on calls for you. Their most important meeting of the day is the one with you. But you have 12 of those, right? So you've got to figure that out. Energy is so important.

[A]

When you think about this idea, because I look, I am so in agreement with you. And I used to feel shameful if I was going to take vacation. I used to feel shame around it. I used to feel like, oh, man, I wonder why, you know? Well, I think it's just the way we're cultivated here in the United States of America.

[B]

I think it's an American thing.

[A]

It's an American thing. It's like we are, like I said, you know, we're judged on the job, the car, the house, the watch. The watch, the clothes. Yeah, like we're judged on those things. We're judged on those things.

[B]

And, and how far you up, up you are in the ladder. I mean, your title's big in America, right? And it is a badge of honor. I feel like I've heard many of my friends, not friends, people I know make fun of the other countries who take an entire month off. They'll say, oh well, look at us, I didn't take any vacations last year. Like it's a badge of honor.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

No, no, that's wrong.

[A]

And guess what? At Creatures of Habitat at my company, I tell my team I do not expect a response from an email after 6 o'. Clock. I do not expect an email after 6 o'. Clock. I do not expect you to be on Your email before 9:00, clock in the morning. I do not expect you to work on the weekends. I do require you to take vacations twice a year. I require it. It is necessary. You must do it. And by the way, I too am going to do whatever I want to do and I'm going to lead you with kindness and confidence. I'm going to do what I want to do. It's hunting season right now. I have become a passionate hunter. Every morning from 5 o' clock to 9 o' clock in the morning I am hunting. No phone, no. And in the afternoon, if it's not crazy, I'm done at 4 and I'm hunting from 4 to 6 and I'm in the nature and I am recharging my battery so that I could, so that I'm taking life, I'm taking the bull by the horns. I've created the opportunity for me to be able to do this. I never say I'm the boss, but I'm the freaking boss. And I've been able to create this life. And I used to feel shame around that. I used to feel shame about being like, oh yeah, well guess what, you know, I'm gonna go to my kids soccer practice at 4:30 on a Thursday. I used to be like, God, how am I going to tell the team that? And then I'm like, now I'm like, I've created this. And by the way, if I'm leading you, well you're going to support that and be fired up about that and like be like, yeah, my boss, dude, he's so, he's such a great boss. He's Such a great guy. He's such a. He's a family man. He goes on these vacations. We're kicking ass as a team. Like, they love that. They want that.

[B]

We need that. We need more of you. We need that as a role model to give Promise Mission. We need leaders who say, I'm totally human. Sometimes I screw up, sometimes I curse, Sometimes I make mistakes. I'm human, and I see you as a human, too. I'm tired of leaders who will say to me, well, I'll say, your employees. I just conducted a survey, and your employees really would, like, have more feedback and appreciation. And to know that they really did a good job, well, their paycheck is their reward. I'm tired of that. I'm also tired. The second thing I'm tired of is, well, I mean, your professional self is one thing, and I don't really want to know about their personal lives. I'm not asking anybody to be a therapist. I'm not advocating for self disclosure. I don't want to know everything about everybody's life. What I'm advocating for is just show up human and see your people as human. And occasionally do ask about their kids, because those days are over where you just bring this self to work, and then I can be my real self at home. So it's an I think. And we had talked right before we started recording. I think there's an integration going on right now. And I would love to figure out your terminology. You said something about it's a new form of intelligence. There's a new form of intelligence.

[A]

Well, I think it's really. It's. It's sort of rewiring or reestablishing what smart is actually. Right. Like reframing.

[B]

It's a lightning bolt moment. Say that again.

[A]

Yeah, like, let's reframe how smart is perceived. Right.

[B]

So it's a new form of intelligence. And I'm thinking that we're in this integration phase. And so we don't even know what to call it yet. But I truly believe I'm calling it connection. You called it eq, whatever. This is, this new form of intelligence. This is what will determine not just whether we survive, because we are withering at the vine right now. 60% increase in premature death. One in five of us globally, Michael, are depressed, lonely and isolated. 30% increase in strokes and heart attacks. It's killing us, literally, unless we do something about it. So we've got to pivot, as you and I have talked about. And we almost need new. New language that hasn't even.

[A]

Well, you know, I. So I think that if I had to really boil it down, I do believe that some people inherently are just better at connecting. Yes, right. Some people inherently, like, I think I. My superpower. If you were to say, you know, what's your superpower? It's. For me, I've always said it's connecting with humans at scale. Like, that is what I live, eat, dream, and sleep to do. I love doing it. I could do it all day long. You put me at the White House or you put me in watts. I am making friends and getting phone numbers. I'm just doing that. That's who I am. And I don't know if that is. If I was born with that or if that's just a skill that I've honed over the years. But I do believe that at the end of the day, AI is coming and, like, a lot of work is going to get, you know, covered. And when people are going through their. We was just talking about this on another podcast today when. When the people that make the decisions are going through their mental Rolodex, they're stopping at the person they like. They're not stopping at the person that's just the best paper pusher on the planet. They are stopping and pausing and not like, stop, scroll on the person that they. That made a great impression on them and that they like. It is just that simple. AI is going to be able to handle all of the technical work. They gotta like you. Like, long term, they gotta like you.

[B]

So I'm thinking when you were walking out of this podcast studio and I was sitting in the green room and I came out and sat right next to the studio, and you had. You've been working all day. I'm probably one of your last. And you came out and in 30 seconds, you made me feel seen, valued, appreciated. You made me feel good as a human. And you did that in less than 30 seconds when most people probably would be like, hey, yeah, yeah, I've got all this blah, blah, blah in the second, right? Let me get. You do have a superpower. That's why I'm trying to give you a compliment.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Trying to give you a compliment. Like, you just were able to look me in the eye and say, I'm so excited, Michelle. Like, I vetted you. Like, I know what you're doing. I know what you're out there doing. I can't wait to have this conversation. So when people shy away from, oh, connection, I don't have the time or I'm not good about. I'm not good at that. That's BS. You can do it in 30 seconds. Just look somebody in the eye and show them that they matter. Like, you matter. I can't wait to have this conversation. You matter. That's, to me, the definition of connection.

[A]

Well, I will say one other thing. And because you are, I think you and I are probably two peas in a podcast. Your energy immediately. Like, immediately. And I think this is another thing that anybody in an executive seat or aspiring entrepreneur or a dinosaur business person can take with them from listening to this. Energy is not experienced through words necessarily. Energy is the. When somebody sees you, they are able to pick up on your energy right away. And by the way, eyes wide open and a smile like that, what you just did right then and there just sent awesome energy my way. Boom. I was just like, I've just been acknowledged. I've just like, she recognized what I just said. She didn't say a word. She looked at me and she smiled. And then I just felt good. And like, I've told people to use the archway, the door as a cue to just smile. Because walking into a room with a smile is very different than walking into a room without a smile.

[B]

Frazzled, hurried, just without a smile.

[A]

Like, think about it, right? Like, you walk into a room with a smile, somebody looks at you. The first thought that comes to mind is, either, I want to. That person's bringing some energy here, or that person's kind of funny. Like, I'm interested. I'm interested. What is that person smiling about? I'm interested. Whereas you could walk in and just, you know, like, you know, whatever on your phone, this energy down, not really looking up, not, not, not, you know, engaging the room. Like, what we're talking about is so critical and in many circles would be pooh, poohed on. Like, I have been, you know, I'm not the smart guy. I'm just not like the quote, unquote smart guy. I'm not the guy that's going to create the spreadsheet and build out the model and build out the forecast and, you know, tell you the marketing plan step by step by step. But I am the person that is going to lead you with confidence, surround myself with the right people to do those things that they love doing that I don't like doing. But they're excited to be a part of a team because there's like, that connecting thing. It's the connecting thing.

[B]

And people follow you.

[A]

It's the connecting thing. And that I Think is what it is. And so, like, that's leadership.

[B]

Everything that you just said, people want to follow you. That's why you're so successful. That's leadership.

[A]

But how does. So as an executive coach, I'm curious to know, like, what do most people come to you for? What do most executives knock on your door about?

[B]

Most executives come to me because they've been told that they're very type A and controlling and that they don't empower their people and let them lead. And that's the toughest transition I have seen in leadership is you go from having to know all the answers and from a very operational mindset. And so you get right here. So you might be kind of mid level. And then for you to get higher, you've got to become much more strategic. And for you to do that, you got to let go, to pull up. You got to let go and trust and empower. And that is tough when you've been told that and you've been rewarded your whole life for knowing all the answers and doing all the work. So it's typically at that level when I get most of the leaders that I coach. And the first thing I do is I conduct a360 with about 20 of the people they work with. And I believe that's the only way I'm successful as a coach is I think for the first time, a lot of them, for the first time in their lives, they're reading a 20 page report of how everybody views them. And it's typically not all glowing. And when you see that in writing, that typically is the impetus for change, not just, oh, I've got, let me tell you about connection. It's seeing how other people view your micromanagement.

[A]

And what is this a technique or a strategy that you use? Because I think one of the hardest things for someone like that is stepping outside of themselves and looking at them through someone else's perspective. Right. Like seeing it from the other side of the street, because they typically type A. And I look, I'm. I'm also a type A. Yeah, but. And one of the things I've struggled with is seeing somebody else's perspective. If I think I'm right about something, like, it's hard for me to just like let go and be like, wait a second, if this person, this other person who's smart, who's on the team, who's with me, what you are so sure is absolutely right. This person who's on the team, who you appreciate, who you brought, you hired, who you like, and have trust in. Feels the complete opposite. They literally feel completely different than you on this one specific topic. Like, there's gotta be something there. You know what I'm saying? Like, totally. There's gotta be something there. And I think it's hard for people that are specifically type A to consider. Wait a second. Like, let me think about that for a second. This person is really smart. Like, this person is, like, this person works with me, for me, with me, whatever. They feel the polar opposite on this thing. I've got to consider that. Like, how can I not consider that?

[B]

You are so right. What I've learned just recently about connection, I learned this at my launch party. I just threw this big party in New Orleans, and I cried right before because I thought, oh, my God, what if nobody shows up? I'm throwing this. I'm trying to start a connection movement, and I want it to go global because we need it. And so I just threw this big party, invited everybody I knew. And then I thought, there's a risk that nobody shows up. Right? People showed up. It was a blast. And then as I'm talking, so many clients came and friends and family and high school friends from all over the country. It was just this beautiful moment. And I realized that to be really, really good at connection takes courage. So that person that you're talking about, that took a lot of courage to say, Michael, I don't agree. I've got a totally different perspective. It takes a lot of courage for you to say, dang, wow, didn't see that coming. But I've got to consider that it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable with somebody and say, you know what? I screwed up. You know, or, let me tell you about my childhood. It's probably not what you thought it was, but I want you to know, because that's who I am. All of that takes vulnerability. So connection takes courage. So we might, you and I, because we love it, and we might have probably come out of the womb like this. For others, it again, I have great empathy. You know, I kind of. I dissed them earlier in this interview. I said, that's bs. Connection's easy. But as I'm listening to myself talk, maybe some people struggle with it because it just feels very vulnerable for the.

[A]

Executive, for the C suite, for the CEO, for the aspiring. Who knows that they're struggling in this arena? What's a couple of things that you can give them right now to just potentially start to move in a different direction?

[B]

Conduct your meetings differently. We're so tired of being talked at. And now you add on Zoom and people are just assuming they can hop on Zoom and just talk at people and go through an agenda and then ask at the very end, do you have any questions? And they wonder why nobody speaks up. That's not connection. So I think what used to be called communication is much more just one way. Oh, I communicated with them, means I sent an email or I ran a 15 minute meeting. No, but you might have communicated with them, but did you connect? Right. So I'm advocating a very different way of meetings, whether in person or on Zoom. I'm saying begin with a connection question, get to know your people. If you're talking about some new marketing strategies, say, gosh, you know, I'd love to know in some of your other companies, what were the best marketing campaigns that you had? Like, I wanna learn and begin with that. Get to know them at a deeper level. We've gotta go deeper. So number one, begin with a connection question. Number two, if you've got a big call on Zoom or on teams, use the breakout feature and just say, you know what, before we dive in. Cause we're really trying to brainstorm how to increase 30% revenue and this is tougher. How to cut, how to come up with some cutting costs. I really want you all. I feel like we've got a couple new members of the team. Take like five minutes and a breakout, you know, and just talk about what, again, some experiences you've had in the past, or you might. Whenever you have a new team member, you have a brand new team. So you might say, you know what, we're going to welcome this new team member to our group today by sharing, like, what is one funny story from your childhood. But choose something that speaks to you, that's more in line with your personality. Some people feel uncomfortable. They call it an icebreaker. I don't think it's an icebreaker. I think you just need to begin meetings now, going deeper in saying, I see you, I care about you. It can be easy as, like, man, this was a beautiful weekend. I'm just curious, like, tell me something fun that you did and then dive into the agenda. And then here's the second thing, agendas. Rather than you feeling like you as the leader, have to own the meeting, share the agenda. In other words, one meeting, you can run it. The next meeting, next meeting, I'll run it. Like, you don't always have to be the leader of every meeting because everybody's going to run it differently. And then rather than having agenda Items, this is number three. Have agenda questions like, hey, you know, here's what I hear. A couple questions that I wanted us to talk about today. I want a conversation. I'm not here to talk at you. So connection is requiring different things from leaders and we've got to go deeper.

[A]

I want to talk about your book as we wind down. I know that. So you're a best selling author and your book, the Seismic Shift. Is that the newest book, Seismic Shift.

[B]

And you just launched this week.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm really excited to read it.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Just tell us what, what, what, what we can get from that book. Like, what is that book going to when, when somebody opens that book and then that they, they close it on the last page. What do you, what was the, what was the intention or the impetus to write that book and the feeling you're looking to evoke in the person that just finished it?

[B]

So two years ago, Marshall and I were at the Thinkers50 awards in London, and that's the Oscars of my field. So to the best thinkers in the world about management and leadership. This is two years ago. So it was 2023 in November, and every single top thinker in the world on stage was talking about, there's no way we're gonna stop this unbelievably fast train of automation and AI and algorithms and all that stuff. We can't stop it. And so we have to lead differently and we have to lean in with heart and humanity. And they didn't get together, all of these top speakers, they were getting awards and so they didn't realize that every single top speaker talking about the same thing. And Marshall and I are drinking a glass of Vous Vie Clicquot afterwards, we're drinking a glass of champagne and I said, marshall, we need to write a book about this. Because it's one thing to say to leaders, oh, we need to lean in with heart and humanity. But so 99% of leaders don't know how to do that. We need to give them permission. We need to show them how. So that was the impetus for the book. So we just launched it in London in this November at Thinkers50 as a tribute to say thank you so much for inspiring us. And now we wrote the manual. So what is the seismic shift in you? It's seven necessary shifts. And it's not just for leaders. It literally is for personally, professionally. It's for humans to figure out why we need to pivot because there's a crisis and disconnection is killing us. Number One. So we have to make a change. And so we wanted to give actionable little shifts of how to shift your perspective from the what to the who. How to shift your priority to make sure you come first or you're no good to anybody. How to shift your calendar so that it reflects your most important relationships. How to shift your meetings so that you go deeper and you're not just talking at people, you're having a conversation. How to shift your conversations so that they're more inclusive and you want different perspectives because diversity pays off. And. And then shift your language so that you stop using. But. And you use. And you stop using. Just that minimizes. Just different word changes will improve connection. And then ultimately it's shift your energy. And to be so intentional with the energy that you use and how it shows up. And we believe that if you. And these are tiny tweaks, these are not huge. If you can figure out how to make these tiny seven tweaks, then you will be driving connection, which will get more satisfaction in your life. So again, it's not just achieving financial performance, which I've spent so much of my career as an academic and as a professor trying to publish all these papers showing that connection drives financial performance. Guess what? It does. But that's not what this book is about. It's about we as humans, how to have a more satisfying and fulfilling life by focusing on what really matters.

[A]

I mean, I can't wait to read it. You know, for me, one of the most influential, impactful, and honestly reassuring books I've ever read in my life was Dale Carnegie's.

[B]

I can't believe you just said that. Oh, but I get tears in my eyes again. Me too. On shag. You're younger than me. On gold shag carpeting in my dad's office. It was a book and I brought it down and I still remember was it. It was a little dog that they talked about in the very beginning of the book. And the dog made Dale Carnegie feel so good about himself.

[A]

Just one of the greatest books of all time. It's just one of the greatest books of all time. And that book was written a long time ago. And why.

[B]

How did it affect you and why?

[A]

Well, it affected me because when I read it, I had already started my first business and I was deep in. Deep in. And I. Someone had suggested reading how to Win Friends and Influence People. And I kind of felt like I don't. Like I'm good at that already. Like that's something that I'm good at. But then I read the book, and I felt like the book was like, honestly, like, I felt the book was written about me. Like, I was like, this is what I do. I've never been able to articulate it this way, but that's when that. That superpower came to the surface for me and said, holy smokes. Like, this is how I. This is what I do. And, you know, and there's no, like, there's. There's. There's no denying that that book is one of the most powerful business books of all time, right? Because it's teaching people this idea that, like, you could be the smartest person at the table. But I promise you, if more than 50% of those people at that table don't like who you are, you're not going to win long term. Like, you're just not.

[B]

You're not. And if you sit there and you talk about yourself the whole time and how great you are, and you don't pay attention to others or ask questions and show interest, that was what I got out of the book. That's why he opened up with the dog scenario. Like, why do we love dogs so much? Cause they make us feel good.

[A]

So good.

[B]

They pay attention to us. They love on us no matter what. And so he was able to say, we ought to do a better job as humans in making other people feel seen, heard, valued, respected. That's my definition of connection.

[A]

I mean, why. I mean, but why that book made such an impact on my life was because I just didn't value that skill set. Until I read the book, I didn't think that that was a power. I honestly thought that it was a liability because I was just. I led with my heart. And instead of, you know, like, if people, you know, I like, my business partner is, at the time was not that person. He was the type A, like, in the kitchen, hardcore, you know, And. And. But I knew everybody's name and I knew everybody's story and, you know, like. And I was like, well, at least I know what they're doing. At least I know what Jane is doing on Thanksgiving with her family. You know, like, in my mind, I.

[B]

Was like, realize how important.

[A]

I didn't realize how important it was. I didn't realize. I really didn't. And. And. And I think that was, like, the moment when I read, when I finally finished that book, I was like, wow. Like, there's something so powerful here that, you know, the Harvard business, the Harvard study. I forgot what that study is called, but it's the longest standing.

[B]

Yes, Bob. Waldinger wrote the book about it. The Good Life.

[A]

Right. The longest standing human study in American history.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Started in Harvard in 1938 with 700, 700 men, 350 Harvard sophomores, and 350 of, like, the toughest kids in South Boston.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And they surveyed them once a month and they asked them, you know, what makes them tick. And this study is still going?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the conclusion is, it doesn't matter what you have. It doesn't matter the job, the title you've held, it doesn't matter the car you drive, the house you live in, the lavish vacations you've been on. It matters most in terms of happiness, the quality of your relationships, your personal relationships.

[B]

Boom.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

That's it. That was crazy. That's it. So the seismic shift in you is. That's it. We have to pivot towards that mindset right now. We've got to get ahead of it. If we already know that disconnection is literally killing us and it's only going to get worse with our addiction to technology, then we've got to get ahead of it and do things differently. So thank you for giving me this opportunity to talk with you. I think I've teared up more.

[A]

This was such a great conversation. It's such a great conversation. And I think. And I'm so excited to be able to push this out and chop it up in a billion different ways because there's so many nuggets of content that, you know, somebody scrolling on their phone hears something that you said, that's real. That is real. And now, not only is it real, but it's proven in the longest human study to date in the United States of America, it's proven to be true. Connect more with the people you love. Like, if you're not spending as much time laughing with and loving the people that you cherish most in your life, you are missing the fucking boat. And, like, I just believe that. I just believe that. And you're such a great person as an advocate for that and applying it to the world of business where, like, no one really thinks to do that. You know, like, people are just like, oh, keep that to your personal life. And it's like, hey, you know what? If you can't be who you are in your personal life at work, you're a phony.

[B]

Totally. We have one opportunity, one person, one day at a time, one life. It's just you. There's not two you's. It's just you. And if there are two You's then you need to read this book. Where can people buy the book at your local bookstores? Amazon. I just finished the audiobook and my Voice. So if you want to be put to sleep.

[A]

Awesome. I love that. Where can people follow along your journey and potentially inquire about coaching?

[B]

Michellekjohnston.com yeah, but I'm not here to get business at all. I'm here trying to really make a difference with connection. I appreciate that the best gift that you all can give me is to embed more connection into your lives and into your calendars. Because then we all win. That's the best gift.

[A]

Family. You know as well as I know that one hit you right in the heart. It certainly did for me. I love being able to sit across the podcast table with someone that I just know I'm a kindred self spirit with. That I know is I don't question whether this is the right thing or the wrong thing. I know in my heart. And that might not be in your heart, but I know in my heart that we all need to start paying more attention to this topic. Technology is stealing your soul. Your soul is everything. The attention that we give to the device. Imagine, just imagine, and you would be. You might be surprised, you might not be surprised to know that you probably spend seven to eight hours a day on your device, if not more. Imagine you were able to repurpose even 20% of that, and I would argue to say at least 50% of that time on your device is a waste of time. You're not being productive. Imagine you were able to repurpose even 20% of that into your personal relationships. The people that you love. Connecting with the people that you work with and learning about them, understanding who they are, not what they do at work. Judging them for who they are in life as a human being. Imagine you were able to repurpose that 20% that you spend sitting on this device, the bane of human existence. Get the book. Read the book. If this is foreign information to you, really immerse yourself in this. Because I am going off of this as soon as that light phone comes. And I have set serious boundaries on this thing. I have serious boundaries with this. This is off at 6 o' clock at night. It is off. Like not just like a way down, face down. It's off because of how powerful this thing is, how magnetic and attention grabbing this thing is. I literally have to turn it off. What a conversation. Do me a favor. Share the podcast. Share it with a friend. Share it with your family. Share it on social media. Post about it. Tag us. Post about it. That is all I ask of you guys here. Listening to this podcast. This costs you nothing. Share the podcast. If you're feeling super generous, give us a five star rating and a review. That would be a cherry on top, but I just like my cup is full. My cup is full. I really felt recognized, identified in this conversation. And I'm so grateful for having Michelle Johnston on the podcast and buy her book. And I know she's not here for business, but I guarantee you it'll be a good one. Or listen to it. I'm gonna listen to it. And yeah, I appreciate you. I love you. Thank you for subscribing to the podcast. And until the next one, y', all, Pe.

[B]

Sam.