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Kreatures Of Habit Podcast
The Skincare Revolution for Men: Confidence & Routine After 40 with Jared Pobre | Kreatures of Habit
00:58:20
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- [00:00]
A
I think once you break the threshold of 40 years old, whether you're a sports bar bro or a lifetime, you know, fitness nut, you break that 40 year range and you're like, you're like, okay, I'm not a kid anymore. Like, I'm just not. I'm not a kid. What would be something that you would say to. To just get them to want to.
- [00:20]
B
Give it a shot. When I started using skincare, it just gave me a little bit more confidence when I started to go into meetings and everyone's going, how old are you? Like, you know, I'm turning 51 next month.
- [00:34]
A
Let's go.
- [00:35]
B
I've always taken pride in that. You know, looked a couple years, maybe younger. Yeah, dude.
- [00:41]
A
You know, I'd say a good 10.
- [00:42]
B
This is a selfish thing, right? And that's okay. Sometimes it's okay to be selfish and it's going to have a positive impact for you and that. And that's a good thing. If you take five minutes out of the day, whether it's the morning or night or both, just to feel good about yourself. An entrepreneur straight out of New York City.
- [01:02]
A
Michael Chernow. What's cracking? I'm a big routine guy, Huge routine person. Before I was introduced to caldera, I just didn't have, like, I just didn't have any kind of skin care protocol whatsoever. My wife cornered me one day randomly, like, you know, didn't really, like, I don't know where it came from, but she basically looked at me and said, have you ever moisturized your face? And I mean, it's kind of crazy to think about, right? Like, our face is exposed to the elements more than any other part of our body, actually. And it's an organ, right? Our skin. Skin's an organ.
- [01:53]
B
Yeah.
- [01:54]
A
So, like, what made you think when launching caldera, what made you think that you were going to be able to convince men to do this? Tell. Tell us a little bit about caldera. Caldera plus lab. Is that how you want to say it? Caldera plus lab.
- [02:07]
B
Caldera lab.
- [02:08]
A
Caldera lab.
- [02:09]
B
Okay, so here's a story. So, grew up in California, Living in southern California. After college, got married, my wife and I decided that we wanted to have a house in the mountains. So we built a home, Jackson hole. Started living out there several months out of the year. High elevation, super dry. When I. When all this went down, I was like, late 30s, turning 40. Started living there more than six months out of the year. And your hands start to crack, your lips start to crack, your face starts to get so Dry from the elements started to see signs of aging happening quite quickly. And the products I was using in my 30s just didn't cut anymore, so.
- [03:02]
A
So you were already using skincare products?
- [03:05]
B
Started using skincare products in my late 20s. Okay, kills. Started using Kills. But before that I was using like Neutrogena for like face wash and stuff. Always had oily skin, acne, even into later years, even recently. And when I started living in Jackson, everything accelerated. The signs of aging, dryness, wrinkles. At that time, there was this movement happening with women's skincare, Clean, organic, right? Disrupting all the incumbents, you know, new independent brands, doing great work, building excellent products. My wife started introducing them to me. She's like, hey, you know, that's not working. Just like what you went through, you know, try this. I did. I was blown away at the relief, the immediate relief I got like on application how, how much better they perform than what I was using. And then shortly after, I mean, shortly after, like a couple weeks later, started finding out other men in Jackson Hole, right, in their 40s and 50s, 60s, were also using skincare products, high end ones from their wives. Like, you know what, there's gotta be a market here eventually. It wasn't there at that time. And so that was kind of the genesis of the idea when it all started.
- [04:38]
A
You've gotta have balls of steel to think that you can convince millions of men to start taking care of their skin, right? Like, it's just, it's just not something traditionally that men are groomed, cultivated to make part of their like, daily routine, daily protocol. What I'm here to say is. I look forward to it. I never thought that that was something that would happen. Not only do I look forward to it, but I. It's like deeply effective, right? Like, I do not have wrinkles on the sides of my eyes at all. And I did. That's a fact. The lines in my forehead are still there. I've had them forever. I think people just have them, but. But they were way deeper. And that's just a fact, right? Like, where I saw this impact me most is on the sides of my eyes, where I legitimately do not have a single wrinkle under or on the sides of my eyes. And I do owe it to the eye serum, I think. I do. I think, I think even though that's my least favorite one to apply because it's only under my eyes and in the sides, right. I do think that, that there's something special about that. And so I guess for People listening, right? Like, what made you think, what gave you the audacity? And I think entrepreneurs just have just this, this, this enormous amount of audacity and, and, and confidence and some sort of interference of, of the fear of failure that most people do walk around with. Right. There's a level of audacity that you have to have, whether you, whether you think about it that way or not, like, oh, this is an audacious move. What, where do you, where do you think the audacity came that you thought you'd be able to convince millions of men to, to. To start using skincare?
- [06:47]
B
Yeah, you know, I don't think it was as complex as having that mindset of like, hey, I'm going to do this totally transformational, you know, movement where people are, where I'm going to convince millions of men to, to start using skincare. I think it just started with a simple trend with myself and a lot of my friends where self care started to become more and more present in our lives as we got a little bit older, right? And you kind of get to that point in your Life, right around 40, where you're thinking about, do I keep my youthful energy, right? My, my youthful health, my youthful appearance and hang on to that for as long as I possibly can, right. Work out, eat well, right? Self care, and it's a fork in the road in many ways, right? Either keep or you introduce new habits, you introduce new ways of focusing on wellness and self care or you don't, right? I know I have a lot of friends who don't. Right. And I have these friends who do. And I'm in the camp of I wanted to continue to, to look healthy, be healthy, feel healthy. And so I saw a trend that was developing and I like to, you know, use that term, skating to the puck, right? I saw the puck here. The market wasn't there yet. What customers and male customers, right. In mass buying skincare, specifically the types of skincare that we create. But I saw the trend that at one point in time in the future, not too long from where we're at now, back in like 2016, this is going to be a thing. This is going to be a thing because I saw it with myself and I saw it with my cohort of friends, right? And so that's what gave me the conviction that there was something there to invest in and, and pursue, right? And so, you know, we went about it where we started working on product development for a couple of years. And that was the hard part, right? To really figure out the ingredients, the manufacturers. Right. The formula, test it over and over and over for efficacy. Right. Do a clinical study.
- [09:14]
A
Right.
- [09:15]
B
Build all this conviction in is there truly a product that I can stand behind?
- [09:20]
A
Right.
- [09:21]
B
And if there wasn't, then, you know, abort the mission. Right? And that's how we looked at this the whole way. It was kind of a project between my wife and I, like, hey, you know, could we build this business? It'd be pretty, pretty exciting, a fun thing to do as a couple, which is kind of crazy to think about doing business with your wife, you know.
- [09:41]
A
But you guys, is she still involved?
- [09:44]
B
She is inspirational, right? She's not operational, right. But she was very inspirational in helping me, you know, launch the idea of this business and gather the research and whatnot. But how we looked at it is at any stage of the business, if we hit a roadblock that was too hard to overcome, right. Most important, the products didn't work or they were unstable or they created irritancy, then we had a board, right. Or we just didn't find a product market fit. There was no customers for the products. But every step of the way, a new door unlocked.
- [10:22]
A
Right?
- [10:23]
B
And that's how we continue to move forward in the process and build a brand and build a company because we've gotten the signal, the positive signal to keep on moving forward, even though there's a lot of hard parts along that journey.
- [10:39]
A
Interrupting this episode to share with you that Creatures of Habit finally launched our protein bar. It's called the Daily bar. It's made with 20 grams of plant based protein, 3 grams of creatine. Yes, you heard that right. It also has 3 grams of creatine. It is incredibly tasty and clean as a whistle. All clean ingredients. Take this opportunity. Hop over to creatures of habit.com. that's creatures of habit.com with a K and use code KOH P O D20 at checkout for 20% off your first order. Back to the pod. So I've turned, I don't know, I mean, I feel like I've turned everybody that, you know, I've turned all my friends onto Caldera, right? But only because of how, how simple it is and like how like genuinely it's like changed things for me, right? And just, and just like, like you said, keeping my I'm 45, I am look great.
- [11:45]
B
45, you're 35.
- [11:47]
A
I mean, I, I feel, I feel that way because I, I sort of jumped onto the self care train outside of skincare like 20 years ago. And so, you know, people Ask me pretty regularly, like, wow, like how do you stay in that place? And I'm like, well, you know, I dedicate not a lot of time, but time to my self care practices. And so it's so interesting to me to think that there are people that are like me and like you and then there are people that are just not.
- [12:17]
B
That's right.
- [12:18]
A
And I, like, I don't, I, I personally don't understand that person who's just like, no, I just don't care. Like I genuinely just don't care. I don't care what I, I don't care the clothes that I put on my body, I don't care what my body looks like. Like there are people that genuinely just don't. And so, and unfortunately I think that there are more people in that camp than are in the camp that do care. But I do think times are changing.
- [12:47]
B
Yeah.
- [12:48]
A
You know, I do think more people are lean. You know, I mean self care has, has. Obviously I, I believe it's just scratching the surface. Like, I don't even think we've, we've really seen the, the, the, the tam on what self care is. Right. But a question that I have is taking someone and, and I don't, I'm curious if you've done these tests. Taking someone who just has, who was like me, who like literally just washed my, my face with bar soap for ever, right? Like washed my face with bar soap and had like the two in one shampoo conditioner. Like, you know what I mean? And if that ran out, I would like use whatever my wife had. Right. But so you take someone like that and then you introduce them to someone, something like Caldera, obviously there's just no denying there is going to be a massive shift, right? Or a shift that is going to be obvious for that person. What about taking the person that's been on the skin care path for a while using different products and then switches over to tech Caldera. Have you, have you guys like attempted to, to try that kind of, to put into, in place, that kind of trial?
- [14:10]
B
Well, we have both types of customers, right? Customers who have went their whole lives now into their late 30s, early 40s or even 50s, even 60s. It's pretty crazy. Our customer base in the 60s is incredible. And into the 70s they've never used skincare religiously.
- [14:33]
A
Right.
- [14:33]
B
Or just in general. And now they come and become a customer because they get introduced to our brand, right. They learn about, you know, how it can be helpful to them. And then we, we also have the customers who have been using skincare a lot, you know, very well versed. And, and we convert and we convince and we convert them over and you know, what kind of sets us apart is, you know, how we handle product development, how we handle ingredient selection, how we handle formulation. You know, it's an industry. When we first looked at it, when I first researched it, where there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of marketing claims, right? Brands can say they have, you know, this trending ingredient, right? And they put all this marketing behind it, but there's just trace amounts of it, right? Barely enough to really do any fairy dusted, Just, just fairy dusted, right? And how we went about this is what are the brands in the women's category, right? In women's independent, clean, prestige, clinically backed skincare, what are they doing? Because those customers, right, you can't fool those customers. You know, they've been using skincare, they've been using beauty products a long time. They know when something actually has efficacy or not. And so we took those principles to how we went about ingredient selection, formulation partners that we selected and we've held ourselves to the highest standard of the products that we bring forward. That when we have an ingredient that's a high end active, that it's at the clinical level, not a trace amount, right? Our, our, our formulas are more expensive, right? Cost us a lot more than the traditional, you know, CBS type brands or even a little bit higher than that. But that's okay. You know, our customers understand, they know that what we are delivering has the highest level of quality. Those ingredients that we're selecting, not only are they that trending ingredient or that really high end ingredient, but it's from the most, it's called high end purveyor of that ingredient, right? So yeah, you know, in all types of industries, you know, you can go and build, you know, bars and you know, all kinds of different things and food and beverage and whatnot. But where are you getting those ingredients from? There's low quality ingredient suppliers and there's the high quality ones, right? Is those high quality ones, when mixed together with other high quality ingredients with the best quality bases, preserve all those things that go into making skincare or food that you can achieve the highest quality outcome.
- [17:30]
A
So I've got a question. I think it's a great parlay into this question because I wanted to ask you this question. So obviously Caldera is a premium product. There's no doubt about it. Like some, you know, when I recommend it to people they're like, wait a second, I want to pay 80 bucks for that little thing of I eye serum.
- [17:43]
B
Yep.
- [17:43]
A
And I'm like, I mean, you know, it's not for everyone. Right. But so how do you, how did you navigate that? Or what is your thought process as an entrepreneur with a premium, premium product, premium brand? What is your thought process on the cohort of humans that are. It's an, it's, it's, it's not even a thought like, I want the best, this is what I'm going to do. And then the people that sort of are. There's friction around price.
- [18:09]
B
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. We, we've always set out with a mindset of doesn't matter what our cogs are going to be, our cost of goods sold. When we, when we build a product, we just simply start out with we want to build the best product. Then we get the cogs and we're like, oh shit, this is pretty expensive for us.
- [18:31]
A
Right?
- [18:31]
B
How do we make this work right, Price wise for us as a business to be viable. Can this, can we actually make a profit here? What does the market look like, you know, women's, men's, etc. And who, who are we trying to build a customer base around? Is it the Planet Fitness type, you know, customers, or is it the Equinox type customers? And I've just kind of just stayed true to myself. It's like I work out at Equinox, right. I, I will go for, you know, ingredients or things, clothing that I know there's just a little higher or a lot higher level craftsmanship.
- [19:13]
A
Right.
- [19:13]
B
It's coming from, you know, organic cotton that's from a really nice source. Right. And I'm going to pay up for that. And so, you know, we've built a brand out of communicating how much we invest into our products and the quality that they are. Right. This is not a McDonald's burger. Right. This is a Wagyu burger from the best like purveyor in Japan. Okay? That's, that, that's our difference. And yes, it's a $28 burger, you know, versus, you know, a $6 burger or $5 burger at McDonald's. That's not the world that we play in where it's like mass, you know, just pump out a lot of these things.
- [19:54]
A
You're just not going for volume.
- [19:55]
B
We're not going for volume. We're going for high quality customers that have loyalty because when they find brands, they stick with them. When they find brands that they Love that, that meet their expectations, Products that meet their expectations, right. We know if we didn't bring products that met the expectations of our customers, charging them, you know, $110 for a serum, a face serum for men, that there's no way that they're going to be a repeat purchaser if the product didn't perform for them. But that puts all the onus back on us, right, to do an excellent job, the best we possibly can on building the best product. And based on that, we have to take two to three years to build products in this industry. What we found where brands were coming to market, all these celebrity brands, all these brands that were kind of jumping on the bandwagon back in 16, 17, 18. You can go to these co manufacturers, right? They'll give you a menu of like, here's a moisturizer list, here's a cleanser list, here's a serum list, right? Here's a, here's a mass list. Select which ones you want, go to a creative agency, develop your brand, your packaging, put the two together and you can be in market in like six to eight months, right? No testing of their products because you're taking that menu, right? And they've already done the stability and the irritancy, but the quality of the efficacy just isn't there. But that's how all these brands entered the market. 16, 17, 18, 19. As we got into like 20, 21, stuff like that, these brands started, started to kind of fall apart. Yeah. And you know, we took the hard route of like doing everything the hard way, starting with the brief. This is what we want the product to do. These are the types of ingredients that we've researched. You know, a thousand of them. These are the ones, 1,000 that we've selected is like 50. They're incredible. But how do they work together? You know, you have to find out like do they create irritancy or not? Do all this testing, iteration after iteration, variant after variant, you know. And so you know, how we went about it is in a really complex, sophisticated product development way versus like selecting from that menu of options that brands do still do today. You know, we go to these conferences and you can still go like, hey, here's the latest, you know, stick, vitamin C or retinol stick and this and that, like all these trends, right? You get access to that product, right? You package it up and like, here's your new, you know, transformational new retinol stick. Right. But it doesn't have as much efficacy, right. Performance. Right. Than, than doing it on your own. But you have to be able to do it right, you know. And so that's how we've been able to like build a brand around products that work because we've taken the, we've invested in time to actually find products that perform.
- [22:54]
A
It took me for. We have three products at Creatures of Habit. Each one, well, the first one took me about 16 years to figure out, but our second product took me two years to R and D. And this is our latest product that we launched in November. And this thing took me two and a half years. Over 60 different iterations in four different manual, like four different comments to nail.
- [23:18]
B
There you go.
- [23:19]
A
And like the, the, the, I don't want to say the proof is in the pudding. The work is in the pudding, you know, because when somebody takes a bite. Do you eat protein bars or no? You're not into them?
- [23:32]
B
I do, yeah. Yeah.
- [23:33]
A
So I'm going to, I'm going to give you one of those to try. But anyway, I'm not going to influence your experience, but it is a damn good protein bar with all super clean ingredients and trying to make a protein bar that's non gmo, gluten free, dairy free, no seed oils, no sugar, alcohols, clean, real food, really high quality protein.
- [24:04]
B
It's hard.
- [24:04]
A
Nobody fucking wants it's hard because you.
- [24:06]
B
Know, when you do those things, right, you put all that into it, then maybe the shelf life isn't as long.
- [24:11]
A
Right, right. Sacrifice on cap. You know, everybody wants like the best, like the best product for the cheapest amount of money as fast as possible.
- [24:22]
B
Right.
- [24:22]
A
It's kind of like just the way I kind of see it. Right. Like at the end of the day, that is kind of the way the majority of human beings know, sort of navigate through the world. I want the best for free, as fast as possible.
- [24:35]
B
Right.
- [24:35]
A
And you know, it's just not realistic when you're trying to do something fantastic. Right. And so I asked you that question only because I take a lot of heat from people around me in the world of consumer F and B consumer food because they're like, dude, like, how are you? You're charging five bucks for a billion a packet of oatmeal that, you know, Quaker charges, you know, 40 cents for. And, and I'm like absolutely 100% and if you want to go have the 40 cent pouch of, you know, sugar, go for it.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah.
- [25:14]
A
Like, but I had to, I had to have the confidence and, and, and, and quite frankly, like, learn to have the confidence that price sensitive people and they're, they're, they're from, you know, nine to five, you know, minimum wage people all the way to billionaires. Doesn't matter what your annual income is. As a price sensitive human, there's probably more price sensitive humans in the, in the 1% than not, quite frankly. That's what I've learned. So price sensitive people are just not my or your customer. And I really had to get comfortable with that like, and just be like, okay with it. And so what I ended up doing after I really spent some time when we first launched the business and I was dealing with people like, you're, that's, that's rude. How could you possibly launch an oatmeal that cost five bucks a meal? And I would, I would say, but it's got 30 grams of protein and it's got omegas and probiotic and digestive enzymes and it's got, it's got all these things that would cost you like 70 bucks to buy if you were to buy ingredients and all sorts of time. And they were like, you're charging five bucks. And I basically said, you know what, I don't want the noise. Like, I'm not going to be able to convince you to do that. Right. I'm going to make it more expensive. I'm going to charge more for it. Because if it's, if it's, if it's too much.
- [26:39]
B
Yeah.
- [26:40]
A
You're not even going to look at it. You're not even going to want to. And I, and I. And that was the most. That was the most. That's when our business took off.
- [26:47]
B
Nice.
- [26:48]
A
When I made it just a little bit too expensive for anybody who's price sensitive to even look at it. And then I made it the right price for a premium customer who is very interested in their health, like looks at labels and cares. Am I going to get everyone from, you know, New York to California? No, I'm not. But there's so much room, right? You know, there's so much room. And I was just curious about that because I think it's something that a lot of entrepreneurs don't quite understand that like if there is a large group of people that are pushing back against your product. Right. That's okay.
- [27:32]
B
Absolutely. You know, in my experience, if you try and create product that meets everyone's expectation, you're going to meet no one's expectations. Right. When you have products that service a customer core cohort exceptionally well, that's when you find success.
- [27:57]
A
Right.
- [27:57]
B
Because you can build upon that cohort. You can Continue to grow that cohort. Right. And so when we build products.
- [28:09]
A
What.
- [28:09]
B
We find is when they work exceptionally well for. For some people, we know they're not going to work well at all for others, and that's okay. But we know that we've solved for the cohort that we're trying to service.
- [28:24]
A
All right, so I've got another question. So you guys launched in 2019?
- [28:27]
B
Yep.
- [28:28]
A
And from when I think I started. I think I started using Caldera in 2020 maybe. And when I started using it, it was the base layer, it was clean slate, and it was the good.
- [28:47]
B
Okay, right, so then you probably started in 21, because we didn't launch until the other two products, the base layer and the clean.
- [28:54]
A
So that. So, so. So maybe it was 21. So maybe it was 21 when I had the three step.
- [28:58]
B
Yes.
- [28:59]
A
And. And then if I recall, you launched the. The bar soap.
- [29:07]
B
We launched the eye serum.
- [29:09]
A
Oh, the eye serum and then the bar soap.
- [29:11]
B
Yes.
- [29:11]
A
Right.
- [29:11]
B
Yeah.
- [29:12]
A
So for.
- [29:12]
B
But for.
- [29:13]
A
For the first three years or so, Right. It was predominantly skin care. Like. Like space skin care, Right?
- [29:19]
B
Yes.
- [29:19]
A
Okay, so I've got a bunch of questions, but when did you think it would. It like, made sense. Like, where, what, what. What was going? Like, was there. Was it like a certain revenue number that you guys hit where you were like, okay, we've got enough of a community here, an engaged audience that are subscribed to our product, that we could start introducing new things to them. Was that. And I would imagine the bar soak was like the first kind of like, different. Like different category from skin, Face, Face Skin care, where you were like, okay, let's see if this, if they bite on this. Is that kind of. Was that the thought process?
- [29:58]
B
Yeah, I'll walk you through it. So the first product we launched was the Good, which is our hero skew. It's still our top seller. We launched that one in 2019. Okay. We launched with one product, a face serum specifically for men there at that time. No, only face serum dedicated men's products in market.
- [30:18]
A
So just real quick on the. On the good. I use the good at night.
- [30:21]
B
Yes.
- [30:21]
A
That is, I use. Is it supposed to be used at night?
- [30:24]
B
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Some people use it during the day just because they live in climates that are super dry.
- [30:28]
A
Okay.
- [30:29]
B
And they have really dry skin.
- [30:30]
A
Okay.
- [30:30]
B
Majority of them use it just at night. So when we. When we came to market, we're like, well, this is the product that we believe in. This is the one product that I loved. Right. That I Was using personally and I felt like, hey, there could be a market here. It's huge risk. Brought that to market. Didn't know if we're gonna like sit on 10,000 of these things in a warehouse that we can never sell or have to give out to a bunch of friends. Right. So we started out very slow. When we started in January 2019, we wanted to receive, you know, customer feedback. Right. And we want to see sales velocity. We want to see if there's a real business here. As the business started to take off, that's when we knew, okay, we found a market, we found a customer and they like our product. They're repeat purchasing.
- [31:18]
A
Was it all DTC, all DTC, all D2C, all DTC. Hughes, a paid like a creative agency helped you create ads.
- [31:25]
B
Right.
- [31:25]
A
Paid media guy that was buying at buying media for you.
- [31:28]
B
That's right, that's right. We did it a little bit in house at first and you know, realized we weren't making as much progress as we liked. So then we started using agency and we went through several agencies, but we also started talking to our customers. You know, great customer experience. That's kind of paramount to our business. Right. So finding out what products they're using, listening to their feedback in terms of what they would want us to bring out to market. And so immediately, within like month two, we're getting emails saying, hey, this is amazing. This is the best product I've ever used for my face. I also use a moisturizer during the day. I use a cleanser morning and night. Do you have one? Can you bring one to market? And so it was that easy.
- [32:14]
A
Like they were telling you what they want.
- [32:16]
B
It was that easy. We're like, you know, we've thought about it, you know, even before we launched the business, you know, what follow on products would look like. The answer is we don't have anything at this point, but we're going to work on it. And so that's what we did.
- [32:30]
A
And so, okay, so then you launch bar soap. Then you took a, like a. I mean I'm just kind of going through like my memory of this before you introduced the hair stuff. The hair. The hairline.
- [32:44]
B
Yep.
- [32:44]
A
You took a break from introducing products. Right. You, you went hair. And then my favorite product of, of all of them currently. Right. Well, that. My two favorites probably are the great and, and the hydraulic hydrolayer. Those are, those are my two.
- [33:01]
B
Yeah.
- [33:01]
A
I mean maybe just because they're new, but those are my, those really.
- [33:06]
B
I love, I love, I love them too. They're my new favorites. So I'll walk you through everything. So from year one that, that kicked off once we started working on cleanser, moisturizer, a constant flow of us putting products into product development whether at the brief level or more evolved. So we are always working on products, lots of them. Right. Majority.
- [33:36]
A
Can you sneak a little out right.
- [33:38]
B
Now you know we're working on body products right now. You know like body lotion. You know we're gonna bring deodorant out to market. Yeah. These are things our customers like dying. They're like listening. These are products I've been using my whole life. You know deodorant bring one to market. Clean natural scents. Right. High quality ingredients. So throughout the years if there was a period of time that we didn't bring any products out to market is because they weren't ready because we weren't satisfied with where they were at in their PD process. Right. all times we can be bringing new products to market, going to co manufacturers, selecting from these menu of options and things of that nature. But we don't, we want to make sure what we do bring we love and there's been points in times that we've actually built a product, manufactured it and decided to kill it.
- [34:32]
A
Like what?
- [34:33]
B
Because a face tonic, like a spray. A sprays. Yeah, yeah. You have to balance your oil, acne, you know, razor bumps it. Just when we, when we actually developed it, did the manufacturing of it, we got it and we're like it changed. Something's wrong. We're not going to launch this, you know and that happens even in food and whatnot. You, you can do a, you can build a formula, bring it, do a tech transfer, bring it to a manufacturer, they build it and something's a little bit off with it.
- [35:07]
A
It happens.
- [35:08]
B
It happens. Yeah. Know food and beverage, beauty, skincare, you know. So we're always working on product development. It's core to our ethos, our, our brands. Like that's our moat that we're building the sophistication there. And you know we started out with our own proprietary formulas. Formulas that we built that we own. Right. Versus like the menu of you know, formulas that you get from these coms. And so we've evolved from there to actually doing, creating our own proprietary ingredients.
- [35:37]
A
Right.
- [35:37]
B
Wow. Biotech plant based proprietary ingredients. Very sophisticated work that's done by like only the most well funded, largest brands private and public in the industry. And that's how far we've come with our knowledge and expertise. Patent pending ingredients. Now that we get clinically tested.
- [35:59]
A
Are you, who is your customer right now? If you had to describe your customer, who is it?
- [36:04]
B
So the age range, 35 to 70. Okay. 40 to 60 is kind of like that sweet spot, higher incomes, professionals. So people finance, healthcare, real estate, tech, all the core professions. These are guys who take care of themselves. They go to the gym, they eat well. Right. They're well groomed. Right. These aren't the guys at the sports bars, you know, drinking, you know, beers and eating chicken wings and talking against guys who wear skincare. Right. It's, it's, you know, and again, it's that kind of concept of like when you find a cohort of customers that your products fit. Don't worry about these other ones, you know, we're not going to try and convince these other guys. Right, right. Do your thing, live your, you're doing great. Right? For the customers, our customers who are into self care, longevity, wellness and they don't have to be the biggest biohackers, right. They're just, people are taking care of themselves, right. Watching what they eat.
- [37:13]
A
Right? That's our customer down to spend an additional three to five minutes in the morning and in the evening just with taking care, you know.
- [37:20]
B
That's right.
- [37:22]
A
What percentage of your customers are women?
- [37:24]
B
Do you, do you. Very small.
- [37:25]
A
Very small.
- [37:25]
B
It's single digits.
- [37:27]
A
Okay. And is that obviously. But I, I remember a few years ago seeing Bethany Frankel post something being like, I don't know, somebody just gave me this, it's for men, but this shit is amazing. Did you see that?
- [37:40]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:40]
A
Was that like.
- [37:41]
B
No, that was, no, no, that was.
- [37:42]
A
Yeah, that was cool. Yeah, I remember, I remember seeing that. I was like, oh, she's. I've got a crazy Bethany Frankel story. My gosh.
- [37:49]
B
Crazy.
- [37:50]
A
But is the plan to run this company for 25 years, what is the, what's the strategy?
- [37:59]
B
The strategy here is continue building the best brand and products that we can.
- [38:04]
A
Right?
- [38:05]
B
How this, how this plays out, you know, in terms of does this business, you know, go public or something to that effect? I don't know. You know, I think that's a long ways between now and where we need to be. You know, we, we constantly are being contacted, you know, by private equity. Now even strategics, they're like, have you raised money or. No, we did, we did one Series A. We did Series A that we raised in 2024. So, so I think the, the answer is, you know, we are, our heads are down on building the best possible brand, a legacy brand, you know, we want this to be a clinique a la mer a Kiehl's, right? This is not a brand that can just, that we, that just disappears.
- [38:55]
A
Right.
- [38:55]
B
It's all based around the quality of the product development. We're very confident this will be a legacy brand. Right. And so you know how that plays out in terms of is it something that's still owned by myself and the employees or, or is this eventually, you know, become a portfolio company, a parent company that is really great with owning these types of brands and bringing them across the globe internationally. That could be a possibility as well.
- [39:26]
A
So. Interesting, man. I'm obviously a big fan. I, you know, I was stoked to get you on here and ask you some questions and I guess for the, for the, for the dude who has never really taken the step, what would you say to him? Like, what, what would you say to him to just get him to like, why is skin care important? Like outside of just the aesthetic component? Because there's no doubt about it. I think once you break the threshold of 40 years old, whether you're a sports bar bro or a lifetime, you know, fitness nut, wear a suit all day or you know, work on, you know, on a construction site, you break that 40 year range and you're like, you're like, okay, I'm not a kid anymore. Like, I'm just not, I'm not a kid. Right? Things are going to change, you know, physically, mentally, in many ways. So like, for that, for the person that's just never taken the step, like, why should they? And, and, and, and what would be something that you would say to just get them to want to give it a shot?
- [40:42]
B
Yeah, it's a great question, right? The way I look at it and the way I think about it is just from a personal experience. And that is this is something, you know, where you can be a bit selfish. And what I mean by that is you have the direct benefit, an immediate benefit, right? When you get relief because you've had dryness in a certain area of your face, right? Because you know, you're starting to feel a little, a little, you know, where you have, you know, self concerns around just not looking the same, you know. And when I started using skincare, you know, it just gave me a little bit more confidence, you know, when I started to go into meetings and everyone's going, how old are you? Like, you know, I'm turning 51 next month, let's go. You know. And you know, I've always taken pride in that, you know, looked a Couple years, maybe younger. Yeah, dude. You know, I'd say a good 10, you know, and so, you know, this is a selfish thing. Right? And that's okay. Sometimes it's okay to be selfish. And you know, and so nothing is going to, it's going to benefit you immediately. It's going to have a positive impact for you and that, and that's a good thing. If you take five minutes out of the day, whether it's the morning or night or both, just to feel good about yourself.
- [42:15]
A
Dude, this has been such a fun conversation. I gotta finish with one final question because it is the Creatures of Habit podcast and I always ask a little bit about your morning routine. Do you have one?
- [42:24]
B
I do.
- [42:25]
A
Can you walk us through it?
- [42:26]
B
Yeah. So I wake up about 45 minutes before my family does. Okay, so that's. What time is that? Six o' clock every morning. The first 15 minutes is kind of my self care. Right. So oral care, skin care.
- [42:42]
A
Right.
- [42:43]
B
Then what's your oral care routine? Oral care is flossing, brushing and then rinsing.
- [42:53]
A
No tongue.
- [42:53]
B
Scraping, no tongue. Just. Just very simple. Okay. And then I do my skincare routine which is also very simple. I. I cleanse and then I put a serum and then a moisturizer. I put the. I put the, The.
- [43:06]
A
Great.
- [43:06]
B
And then the hydrolayer.
- [43:07]
A
No, no eye serum.
- [43:09]
B
I do that at night.
- [43:10]
A
Okay.
- [43:11]
B
I do that at night.
- [43:11]
A
I do that. Both.
- [43:12]
B
Both. Nice. That's why you got great, great eyes. So no screen time. It's important. No screen time for, for that, that 45 minutes. I set my intention. I meditate every morning.
- [43:28]
A
And do you have a specific type of meditation?
- [43:31]
B
You know, I've been, I've been, I've been. I've implemented this, this new meditation that I received from a healer that my wife suggested several years ago. And it's been incredible. I don't know if you ever heard of the Ho' Oponopono prayer.
- [43:46]
A
Of course. Right?
- [43:47]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So. So I've turned that into a meditation.
- [43:51]
A
Wow, that's very cool.
- [43:52]
B
Yeah.
- [43:53]
A
I was just introduced to Hoponopono in June of LA of last year and I work with a breathwork guy who is. Is. Is pretty. Is I. I would say his whole, his whole entire sort of way of healing is around that.
- [44:13]
B
Amazing.
- [44:13]
A
Yeah. So, okay, so you do Ho'. Oponopono?
- [44:15]
B
Yep.
- [44:16]
A
And how long do you sit with that for?
- [44:18]
B
I try and do it for about 30 minutes.
- [44:20]
A
Okay, so that's like a real you're.
- [44:22]
B
But I'm going in and out in and out, you know? You know, But I'm. I'm going back to the principles of the Ho' Oponopono Prayer.
- [44:31]
A
Okay, just give us a quick little rundown on what that is.
- [44:35]
B
So the Ho' Oponopono prayer is this kind of saying of, I'm sorry, please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. And you can apply that to all different parts of your life, right? You can apply it, obviously, to family, children, friends, business, any part of your life. You can apply that, too. And so I'm constantly thinking about areas of my life that I want to continue to uplevel and improve. And once I started doing this about three years ago, Tanya, a lot of. A lot of amazing things have happened.
- [45:21]
A
And was it always 30 minutes, or have you, like, built up to 30?
- [45:24]
B
Built up.
- [45:25]
A
Okay.
- [45:25]
B
Yeah.
- [45:26]
A
So you sit for 30 minutes in meditation, and then what?
- [45:30]
B
And then I start my day. So get the kids up. Get the kids up. Feed them. And something I. I introduced, you know, two, three years ago as well, is, you know, spending time with my children every day, right. Specifically, I drive them 30 minutes to school every day, and I have that alone time with them.
- [45:54]
A
How old are they?
- [45:55]
B
My oldest is 11. My middle is 7. My youngest is 5. And I get 30 minutes to them exclusively every morning. And we get to talk about all different types of things. It's the greatest conversations. It's the most amazing sacred time that I've developed my children that. That I'll have forever. These memories, right? In my ability to help them think through how they're going to go about their day, right? And how, you know, what they're going to learn that day, right? What they're going to try. That's new, you know, whether being good friend, good student, good athlete, whatever it might be.
- [46:34]
A
It's so interesting that you say that, you know, because I. I love. Also, I'm spending time with my kids, and since I got out of the restaurant business, that has become a reality for me. And the restaurant business is way harder for me, which I'm so grateful for that. I don't. I'm not. I mean, I love the restaurant business, but, you know, it's not a conducive thing for parents.
- [46:54]
B
Right.
- [46:56]
A
But what I. So spending time alone with my sons is like, I have to. I am constantly inspiring the conversation. I'm like, okay, I'm going to ask him, like, what questions am I going to ask him? I. You know, I'll start off with something fun where I'll be like, all right, let's play. Would you rather, would you rather jump off a cliff or run from a lion? You know, like, things like that? Yeah, because typically I find that like, if you just, if I just ask them kind of random questions, they're just like, I don't know, dad.
- [47:25]
B
That's right.
- [47:27]
A
So have you found like a little bit of a flow with them at this point now, driving every morning?
- [47:32]
B
Yeah. You know, the answer is yes and no. You kind of have to take advantage of when they're open and talking, they want to talk about things that are happening at school or friends and, or, you know, their sports or. And just kind of, you know, create a safe environment to let them share. Cool. Right. And then I try and just insert, you know, dad's advice, you know, where I can, you know, they can only receive so much of it. Right. But I found that that 30 minute drive every morning has become sacred. It's become amazing with our relationship and how they just interact with each other as well, you know, so that part of the day that, that routine that I've. That I'm going to miss at some point in time when they're driving themselves. Right.
- [48:26]
A
Like, you never know when it's going to be the last one.
- [48:28]
B
That's right. That's right. This has been one of the most incredible habits and routines I've implemented from a family perspective that I would recommend any father. Doesn't matter how successful you are as an entrepreneur, you know, take that time to invest in your children. I'll leave you with this. You know, this is a really interesting concept. So when I was single, not married, ET, no kids, had lunch with one of my best friends from college and he was like one of the top students at usc, mar, Business school, etc, he got married just a few years out of school, right out of college, and we have lunch and he's like, Jared, you know, what are you doing, man? You're, you're, you know, having all this fun and you know, you know, you ever thought about, you know, having a family? Like, well, you know, I've thought about it, but just, you know, I haven't met the right woman yet and you know, I'm just. You're right, I'm having a lot of fun, you know, and, and business is great. And so, you know, it's like, you know, I'm just not going to force it. It's like, well, just let me alleviate this. And like, you know, I was. Same thing, you know, having fun, business is great. And, and one of my mentors, you know, can shared this, this concept with me. He's like, you know, Alan, think about this. You know, if, if you were to have children, right? And you know, you had this, you know, you know, op. You had this decision to make. You. If, if, if you, with all the assets and the business that you own, if you were forced to make a decision between, you know, one of your children surviving or you have to give all your assets in your businesses away, what would you do?
- [50:20]
A
He asked you that question.
- [50:22]
B
This is the question that he, he was shared to him and he said, well, it's an easy one. I'd give all my assets, all my business, everything. Get it all away for that one child. Okay, Alan, you have no children. Think about what you just said. You're a smart, you know, top business, you know, students in Marshall School of Business, usc, look at the value creation that you can create from just one child.
- [50:45]
A
It's crazy.
- [50:47]
B
Wow. Just one. Think about more than anything that you own right now.
- [50:54]
A
Wow, What a, what a, what a perspective.
- [50:56]
B
When he shared that story with me, I'm like, makes sense. Wow. And now I get it. And now I get it.
- [51:04]
A
That's so, I mean, you put it in that way. It's like that is because I just did not know where that was going, you know?
- [51:11]
B
Yeah.
- [51:12]
A
That's so cool.
- [51:13]
B
Yeah.
- [51:15]
A
Yeah. The, the time with. I would, I would rather make 50% less potentially than I could make in my life spending 100 more time with my kids.
- [51:33]
B
Right.
- [51:33]
A
You know, it's just. And, and you know, I used to think, oh man, sometimes investors. Well, how are investors going to feel about that? Like, I, my, my priority is spending as much time and going on as many vacations as possible with my family. It's just a fact. That's my priority.
- [51:51]
B
Yeah.
- [51:52]
A
Spending as much time with laughing, loving and going on vacation with absolutely kids. You know what I'm saying? And I think far too many people in business, entrepreneurs, their main priority is making as much money as humanly possible. And then they get to this certain point where like their family doesn't know them and quite frankly they don't really care anymore. Like, they're not like really interested. And, and then a divorce happens and then, you know, he loses half of his, his money anyway. Right, right. And there's a big blow up. And so I, and I'm, I'm. That bit, I got a bit of, bit of a generalization but like prioritizing the family. I love, I love that you spend that 30 minutes. I think that's great. And that, that you that you've now made that a sacred part of your life, you know, because I also every night spend. You know, not every night. I. I put my kids down every other night. But. But that is like a big, big sort of sacred moment between the boys and I. And every night, my older. My younger son, he. He's out like a light. He just out. He. He. As soon as I start singing down, just. And doesn't move. My older son, the worst sleeper has been since he was born. So when the younger one passes out, I walk over to the older one and I put my head. I give him a hug and I just lean. Put my head on his chest and I just listen to his heartbeat for like three to five minutes.
- [53:15]
B
Amazing.
- [53:16]
A
And it's just one of those things where it's just like. And one time he asked me, dad, what are you doing? And I had to ask myself, okay, what is happening here? And I realized that I was like, listening to my son live in that moment. There was. And I kind of almost emotional thinking about it that, like, I've created this human and I can listen to him live. And it's. And it. And it completely changes my sort of like, biology in that time. Like, I am. I am. I am in my best place when I'm sitting there with my head, my ear on his chest and he's just like falling asleep.
- [54:00]
B
Right?
- [54:01]
A
Crazy, crazy stuff. Right? But the. That story about, would you give it all up for just one of your kids? And the answer for any loving parent is no question. Wouldn't even be a. Take it. I'll recreate it. Take it, take it.
- [54:21]
B
So look how much value organically we can create. And when you do create it, Right. You have these, the most valuable assets, you know, that you own.
- [54:29]
A
Right.
- [54:30]
B
Spend time with them, invest in them. Right.
- [54:33]
A
Totally. And who. And honestly, I think it's hard for entrepreneurs, specifically hard chargers.
- [54:38]
B
That's right.
- [54:39]
A
To like, be okay with that. But I think it's in. I think it's. I think it's the. You know, for years. Right. Oh, there's no such thing as work life balance.
- [54:49]
B
I just disagree.
- [54:50]
A
I used to. I used to believe that too.
- [54:52]
B
Yep.
- [54:53]
A
The first 10 years of building businesses, I used to believe it. I used to be like, nice.
- [54:57]
B
There's no law.
- [54:57]
A
It's like, there's. There's no, like a certain amount of time a day that you spend with your family, you spend with work. It's just like, you know, it would come in, like, hills and valleys. Like, I'd work for six Months straight. And then I'd spend a week and a half with the family. Like, that's actually the wrong way in my opinion. It's just the wrong way to do it.
- [55:17]
B
I'll tell you. We'll leave it. This last year was my most successful year in business.
- [55:24]
A
Congrats.
- [55:25]
B
Thank you. I spent more time with my kids than I've ever spent more time my family. I figured out how to do it right, whether it's driving to school every day in the morning, taking the practice at night, you know, on the weekends, teaching soccer, coaching soccer. You know, I figured out how to do it during the most busiest professional time in my life last year. So that whole work life balance, it's real. You can make it work. Can absolutely do that. Or you leave.
- [55:59]
A
I want you to just try one.
- [56:01]
B
Yeah. Love to.
- [56:03]
A
And give me your honest opinion.
- [56:05]
B
Yeah.
- [56:06]
A
Are you. Are you okay with nuts?
- [56:08]
B
There's. Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah. Good. Yeah. It's delicious.
- [56:14]
A
Pretty good, right?
- [56:15]
B
It's amazing. Love it.
- [56:18]
A
We did it.
- [56:19]
B
Yeah.
- [56:19]
A
Yeah. I'm stoked on that. Dude. It's so great to have you on the show. I, you know, I think we.
- [56:25]
B
We.
- [56:25]
A
We obviously covered a lot, from entrepreneurship to skin care.
- [56:28]
B
Of course.
- [56:28]
A
Because I just wanted to, you know, that the audience is pretty much 50, 50 male, female. But I. And most people that follow my content know that I use caldera, of course. But I just think that it's. It's. It's. It's a. It's a disrupting or not even disrupting. Trying to create a category is such a hard thing to do.
- [56:49]
B
Yes.
- [56:50]
A
Right. It's so hard. I mean, it's the hardest thing to do.
- [56:52]
B
Yes.
- [56:53]
A
Creating a category. Right. Like, it's like introducing credit cards in the 70s.
- [56:56]
B
Right.
- [56:57]
A
Like, how long did it take for credit cards to actually take shape? Probably not until the 90s.
- [57:01]
B
Right.
- [57:01]
A
Right. Where people like. And now cash is obsolete.
- [57:05]
B
Right.
- [57:05]
A
So, like, what you're doing is really, really hard. I feel like you're one of the best in the game that have done it.
- [57:10]
B
Thank you.
- [57:10]
A
And. And I'm grateful to know you and grateful to have you on the show, man. Thank you.
- [57:13]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me. All right, brother.
- [57:17]
A
All right, guys, you heard it here. That was a good one. And obviously, if you're a dude or non dude and skin care is something that you haven't really stepped into yet or you are. You're. You're currently doing, and you. You want to try something new that I'm just here to tell you it's no bullshit. It is not. I'm not, like, making this up. Like, I spend three to four minutes in the morning and three to five minutes in the evening taking my time with it. I love it. It's made an impact on my skin, and I just, like. I feel like sharing things like that that are. That really work and. And having founders that have created something that's special, that's a. That's, like, a big part of my life. Being able to share those stories is. Is. Is what this podcast is all about. I appreciate you guys for tuning in, for subscribing, for being on this journey with the Creatures of Habit crew. Till the next one, y'. All. Peace.