← Kreatures Of Habit Podcast 
Kreatures Of Habit Podcast
This Hidden Habit That Builds Real Resilience Every Day with Dr. Tasha Eurich | Kreatures of Habit
00:53:53
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- [00:00]
Dr. Nicole LePera
When something bad happens, what do you do? How do you get through it? And we found that there were basically like three responses. You know, the thing can break you, you can bounce back from it, or somehow you get better, wiser, and stronger. What we discovered was that third group was no more resilient than anybody else. Their level of resilience didn't predict whether they got better and stronger in a crisis. This adage of what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's actually not scientifically true. People who have had more challenges in their lives, they sometimes learn how to suck it up and get through them. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they're more resilient. One of the ways we become shatterproof is we focus on our three hardwired human needs. And one of them is an entrepreneur.
- [00:57]
Michael Chernow
Straight out of New York City. Michael Chernow. What's cracking? I am super excited you're here. I love the topic of resilience, which I know you focus a lot on. Self awareness is something that I have really been focused on flying for probably the better part of the last decade trying to turn the volume up on that self awareness barometer.
- [01:26]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Big fan of self awareness.
- [01:27]
Michael Chernow
Yeah, I know that you did a big TED talk on self awareness. Let's just start with self. What the fuck is self awareness?
- [01:36]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Okay, so it actually, I've been researching this topic now for more than 12 years, empirically, scientifically. And I went into it thinking, oh, a definition of self awareness should be very easy to come by. And it took our research team of 10 people almost a year to scientifically define it. So this is basically simplicity on the other side of complexity, if that makes sense.
- [02:01]
Michael Chernow
Got it.
- [02:02]
Dr. Nicole LePera
So self awareness is the will and skill to understand who we are and how other people see us.
- [02:10]
Michael Chernow
Hmm. Wow. I feel like those are two very, very conflicting ways of thinking though, right? Like who we are and how others perceive us or receive us is like. Is it in that succession, first understanding who we are and then under. Like, being mindful of how others perceive us.
- [02:34]
Dr. Nicole LePera
So there's a great F. Scott Fitzgerald quote that I think is like a good preface to this, which is the definition of true intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in our mind at the same time and retain the ability to function. So this idea that both things are true. Right. It's not that who I am and how I see myself is more valid than the way other people see me. Both of those things sort of operate continuously. And what we found in our research is that the most self Aware people are able to take in both types of information and balance them, especially when they conflict.
- [03:15]
Michael Chernow
Wow. So someone who is very self aware, like define or describe that person.
- [03:25]
Dr. Nicole LePera
So someone who is self, aware, who has both types. Right. So I'll start with that kind of internal piece which is what we mostly think of when we think of self awareness. They're clear on their values. They know their passions, like what lights them up. They know what they want to accomplish and experience in their lives. They know, they understand their patterns of behavior. Like, oh, when this happens, I tend to do this and then kind of going to the outer side. They know their strengths and their weaknesses and they know how to read a room. They understand what is it that people are saying about me when I'm not around and how do other people experience me in good and bad ways. And what's interesting is it doesn't necessarily mean that they are always perfect, but having that ability to, having the habit, for example, to get feedback on a continuous basis or to be in a conversation at a dinner party and realize the other person is tuning out. Those are all examples of what self aware people do. I think it's a, at the end of the day, it's a curiosity to understand ourselves clearly, completely and compassionately.
- [04:40]
Michael Chernow
So you can be a total asshole self aware person and you can be a total teddy bear self aware person.
- [04:50]
Dr. Nicole LePera
There is a term that I use called aware don't care. Oh my God, everybody knows that person, right? They're like, I'm just being myself. I'm just saying, I'm just being me. And what's interest is that it seems like it fits the profile. But what we also know about self awareness is people who fit the criteria that we use are good at perspective taking. They're very empathetic, they're very humble. So the aware don't care person sort of masquerades as a self aware individual. But obviously they don't get any of the benefits that people with self awareness enjoy. Like people find them insufferable. It's almost more annoying when someone knows like, I'm just being an asshole. But I'm gonna say this anyway, right?
- [05:36]
Michael Chernow
Yeah. Because I think when you would say someone's self, aware, they are, they have like a filtration system, right. Like I would almost think of someone self aware. And honestly I've been really working on this for myself a lot for a long time. But they're, they just, they slow down a lot more. Right. They're, they're able to like be dealt a pool of pain and suffering and fire. And they're able to just be like, okay, yep, like this is what I'm dealing with now. Right. Whereas some other people that would, I think, would self proclaim them, them as self aware, have no filtration system, right. And say whatever comes to mind and, and maybe even they would even potentially wear that on their sleeves and say, yeah, I just don't care. I do think that there is a, an issue with being flagrant, right? I think that there's an issue with being flagrant and I've worked with a lot of people and I'm friends with people that. And the reason why I'm talking about this asshole piece is because I do think that there is a level of accountability that we've just, that we've just gotten comfortable with, you know, as a society. And, you know, and he'll kill me for saying this, or maybe not. Actually, he probably won't because he really, I believe, doesn't actually care. But my former business partner, Daniel Holzman, who's actually my best friend, is an asshole that really doesn't care. Mostly in work environments and work situations. But, but like, how would you coach someone like that?
- [07:31]
Dr. Nicole LePera
So that sort of preamble made me think of something you said on a recent podcast that has really stuck with me, which is the powers and the pause. Right. And I've spent the last 20 plus years coaching CEOs and senior executives. And usually the profile is the exact profile that you mentioned.
- [07:51]
Michael Chernow
Aware, don't care.
- [07:52]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yeah, well, sometimes they're not even aware, right? They think they're waking up every day and like doing the best they can. And the impact they're having on the people around them is very different than usually what they intend. I get some aware, don't cares, but to be honest, I don't prefer to coach people like that because unless you can sort of help them see the way they're getting in their own way, which I'll come back to, they don't have a lot of motivation to change. But typically what I do to give anyone that motivation to change is. So I'll give you an example. I'm coaching a CEO right now who large growing company, and I interviewed 40 people that he works with and lives with and is friends with. And really to say, how is this person showing up? And what we discovered pretty quickly was not just at work, but in his personal life. He was highly, highly reactive. So super nice guy. You know, the first time I met him, I was like, wow, this is really surprising. What all this feedback is. But what I see a lot is under stress, that's when people are unable to pause and they're unable. I struggle with that myself, to be honest. And so when I'm coaching an executive, it's about saying, okay, is this how you want to show up? Is this what you want people saying about you? Maybe if you changed a couple things and you don't have to overhaul your personality, but maybe let's pick one thing that you're going to try to do better or differently. And in this case it was empathy. It was. And he found that if he paused with empathy when he was speaking to somebody that was the stupidest person he had ever met, Right. And he would say, this person is doing the best they can. This person might just have a different style than me. This person is actually trying to do their job well. That's kind of an example of where if you show people this is how people see you and this is what it's getting you and then make that small pivot, right? Not changing their personality overnight, amazing things can happen. And I actually, I'm so confident in that method and I've been using it for so long that I have a money back guarantee. So if my clients don't change as quantitatively rated by their stakeholders, I will theoretically write them a check back. I've never had to do it because good client selection and good process. But my theory at the end of the day is most people just want to have a positive impact on the people around them. There are the aware don't cares, and I think they're maybe in the minority, but most people are just trying to do the best they can and they need a little bit of help.
- [10:53]
Michael Chernow
So you believe in the ability for people to truly change.
- [10:59]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Can people change? Yes. Will people change? Maybe. It depends on their level of commitment. It depends on the amount of pain they're experiencing as a result of their current approach. But absolutely. I mean, one of the things we studied in our self awareness research program were these people that we named self awareness unicorns. They were people who started out as just completely blind to kind of who they were and how they were impacting people and were able to, you know, through this sort of process that we examined, become really self aware. So not only do I believe it, but scientifically and empirically, like we've, we've.
- [11:45]
Michael Chernow
Demonstrated it, I think so. I come from the world of, I mean, my life really didn't start. I mean it theoretically started when I was born, but like I'd like to think that my current day life really didn't start until I got sober.
- [11:59]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yeah.
- [11:59]
Michael Chernow
And I've been sober now for a little over 21 years. And in that process, you know, like, I have encountered so many people that I had nothing but optimism for them in trying, in potentially changing. Right. My grandmother, when I was a young kid, my father was a really difficult guy and my grandmother was his mother. And she was not a difficult person. Like, she's like the most influential person in my life.
- [12:34]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Oh, wow.
- [12:35]
Michael Chernow
And I used to call her when I would have these blowouts with my dad, and she used to say to me all the time, michael, here's the mantra. Bless you, Change me. Bless you. Change me. It's such a mantra. That's power, you know, such a powerful mantra in my life that I actually have it tattooed on my arm here.
- [12:56]
Dr. Nicole LePera
That's a serious mantra mantra.
- [12:59]
Michael Chernow
And what I learned from that mantra is that I can't, I'm not. It'd be remiss of me to give up hope on people changing. Like, I'd love for my mother to change her ways in specific areas in her life. I spent years trying to figure out how to do that. And I've just run up against brick walls. So, like, what, what ultimately happens is, does that make me less self, aware potentially, that I'm like thinking that I have this ability to shake somebody into a different person. But what it has done, the mantra specifically, has given me an opportunity to say, hey, you know what? Like, you don't have to run from this person. You just have to change how you perceive them. Right. And that turns the self awareness barometer up, you know, So I think like, and you could, you're an expert on this. But self awareness is not like a linear path, right? Like, sometimes you gotta turn it up. Sometimes it's all good at a moderate level and sometimes it's super low and you have to, you have to manually increase it, Right?
- [14:14]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yes. Well, and I think you're bringing up a really good point. There's a difference between a professional coach and a friend or a son or anybody or a partner. And one of the things I always say when people ask me, I understand that I'm supposed to be self aware, but how do I make other people more self aware is I say something similar, which is, again, can you make people more self aware? Yes. Unless in my case, I am being paid to tell these very, very powerful, very senior people the truth and to bother them and to hold them accountable and make that change because they want to right? And that's a very different situation than what I think a lot of us experience with the unselfaware people in our lives, which is like, dear God, I just got off the phone with my mother and why can't she be more self aware? And so what I tell people is something very similar to what you, to your mantra, which is take that energy and put it into you, put it into your self awareness, put it into your reactions. There's a trick that I learned actually from the least self aware boss I ever worked for. And I kind of made it up out of pure survival and necessity. And I call it the laugh track. And basically, so remember like in old sitcoms, like the Mary Tyler Moore show was one of my favorite shows when I was growing up and I watched it on Nick at night and Lou Grant was this like awful boss, right? He was so mean to Mary. And you know, there were all these zany situations. But what was so interesting was when the laugh track came on after something, you know, horrible that he would say, it became endearing, light hearted, it became funny light hearted. And so I actually started with this boss. This was ages ago, like 15 years ago. I started picturing a laugh track behind all of the ridiculous, unself aware, cruel things that he used to say. And I can't say that, you know, it changed everything, but it was an immediate reframing that I still use to this day.
- [16:30]
Michael Chernow
So you kind of envision or manifest a laugh track after he said something horrible?
- [16:36]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yes, exactly. And then I'd be like, oh you. Instead of going and crying in my office, which is what I did before I discovered that little trick.
- [16:45]
Michael Chernow
You also have you developed a number of different tools, but what is the 222 is that when you're delivered something that is difficult, you have an opportunity to apply this tool and not wallow in the sorrow of what's been delivered.
- [17:08]
Dr. Nicole LePera
So this is actually a tool that I developed in the context of my new book, Shatterproof. And one of the premises of this book is that our resilience is not an unlimited resource. As much as we have been taught to believe that we can infinitely endure the hard things that happen, we all have a ceiling at the end of the day where we're fine, we're fine, we're fine, we're making it through, and then all of a sudden we are not okay. And that's kind of what the 2:2:2 method is designed for. And what it essentially does is you're giving yourself permission to stop valiantly, silently enduring and focus on what you need. So it's basically three time periods. The first two is, what am I gonna do in the next two minutes? And that's immediate psychological first aid. It's saying things like if I splash cold water on my face or, or if I just take some deep breaths, or if I even say to myself out loud, I am not okay right now. I am completely overwhelmed. But it's doing something to essentially recognize what's going on and try to start to regulate again. Two hours is. You're gonna ask yourself, you know, the next time you have two hours, it might not be immediately, but sometime in the next 24 hours or so to say, what can I do in a two hour period? That's gonna just make me a little happier. It might be going to the gym, it might be, for me, it's Netflix on the couch, it might be calling a friend. But it's something that you're doing solely, wonderfully, selfishly for you. But I think the last two is the most important, which is two days. You're gonna give yourself permission, whatever is pushing you over the edge, to take a deliberate pause from ruminating, from trying to solve, from agonizing over that problem. And what I've found even in personally using this is when I do that, and as somebody that lives with a chronic illness who's always trying to figure stuff out, like, how do I feel better? How do I fix this? If I give myself that two days, when I come back to it, I have a different perspective. I have new energy, I have a little bit more willpower to kind of keep the fight up.
- [19:36]
Michael Chernow
So I have to ask, cause I also have a chronic illness. Like, how do you do that? How do you turn it off for two days if you're in the thick of some sort of a chronic illness flare up?
- [19:49]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Let me give you an example. It's a pretty dramatic one. So in my diagnostic journey to eventually understand that I have something called Ehlers Danlos syndrome, which is a genetic connective tissue disease, I was able to get into this world renowned clinic and it's EDS for short. So EDS clinic and I flew across the country and I knew, I was like, this is finally gonna be it. I've known I had this. I need to get this diagnosis, if not just for insurance, but also for my own personal journey. And I into the clinic and they diagnosed me with a garbage can autoimmune disease that I did not have. And then told me that I should really go to a pain seminar that teaches you to ignore Your pain.
- [20:41]
Michael Chernow
Wow.
- [20:42]
Dr. Nicole LePera
And I stumbled out of this facility like I had no idea what just happened to me. Somehow I made it back to my hotel room. I crawled under the covers, I start crawling hysterically, crying. And that was actually when I dreamed up this tool, right? So the two minutes, I was like, I need to cry under the covers maybe for a little longer than two minutes. Right now, two hours. I think I need food. Like, I haven't eaten today. I think I need to get like the tastiest Thai food that I could ever imagine in this area. But then for the two days, I think people like you and I, we're success focused, we're ambitious, we want to fix things. I said I'm going to give myself two days to not pretend I don't have this illness, but to stop trying to fix the situation. And so instead of flying home on the plane and getting on the WI FI network and searching for other facilities and calling people and agonizing over it, I just, I think I like watched TV on my iPad and I went home and I hung out with my friends. And so I think that's what it looks like to pull back for two days. You're not necessarily giving up, but you're just giving yourself a little bit of.
- [22:04]
Michael Chernow
Grace, you know, I am so. It's so sad, but it makes me feel so good that you just said you got on the plane and like you just watched tv. Because I, every time I fly, I. I'm like, yes, I can just plow through work. And more recently, because I tend to fly a fair bit, I was like, why would, why can't I just give myself the ability to just do like everybody else on this fucking plane and watch a movie?
- [22:39]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yeah.
- [22:40]
Michael Chernow
Like, why can't I just do that? Do I have to be on my computer doing emails for the whole six hour flight or can I just like be on the plane and like watch something? You know, I, when I get caught in that place that we're talking about with the disease, right? In my case, it's Lyme disease. You know, the symptoms are so sporadic and they're so varied. And you know, like right now as we're sitting here, I'm in a, like not a full on flare, but in a flare. Like my heart is bothering me. Like I've been like rubbing my chest all day because I have, like it, like it shows up there, you know, like my hand will get. My left arm will get cold. It'll. And you know, like, it's so hard when you have these weird Symptoms that I'm sure you're very aware of and accustomed to, to not think about the problem. Right. Because it's ultimately thinking about the problem. You know, they say as. As. As, you know, or I like to say as a founder, you know, it sucks when my team shows up with a bunch of problems, right? Like, the goal is, is that we identify the problem and we always show up with solutions, right? Like, that's the plan, right? Like, if you show up to the meeting, which is a shit ton of problems, the whole entire meeting is a defensive meeting, right? Yeah, yeah, we want offense, right? Like, there's got to be some level of offense. Totally identify the problem. Let's see it. But, like, you know, if the. If the team plays defense all day long, they're not scoring any goals. So let's, like, show up with some. Some show up with the problem, but have. Have some solutions. In the. In the case of a chronic illness, it's so hard because in some cases, there's not a solution. There's no cure for the problem. Right. There's a bazillion treatments, but which one is right, which one is wrong? So, like, I would love to be able to implore that, like, employ that strategy with Lyme, because, gosh, man, when they come, they come so hard. You know, they come so hard. And I'm sure anybody listening who has experience with some sort of a chronic illness understands that, like, when they're there, not only is it hard for you and I, but it's also hard for the people around us.
- [25:06]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yeah.
- [25:06]
Michael Chernow
You know, like, my wife is over it, and she doesn't want to be over it. She wants to love me and care for me and. But, like, when you. When you're married to someone who does have something like this, it's a. It's difficult, you know? Yeah, it's difficult.
- [25:20]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Disease burden isn't just us.
- [25:22]
Michael Chernow
It's.
- [25:22]
Dr. Nicole LePera
It's everybody who loves us.
- [25:25]
Michael Chernow
The resilience piece. So I'm sure you have a lot of resilience in your life. You're sitting here with me, you've written multiple books. You're, you know, you're a New York Times bestselling author. You're a therapist. You've done a lot of things with this thing, Right? So resilience is like your middle name when you say that. Well, is not endless. Like, are you talking about there's, like, a certain amount of resilience we have in life or in a specific situation?
- [25:55]
Dr. Nicole LePera
It's a great question. So, like, a lot of things Well, a lot of authors write the book they need at the time. And that was sort of how I came to start writing about resilience and about becoming shatterproof, which is kind of a second really habit to complement resilience. But during COVID I think what had been happening in my life with my illness is I was running on adrenaline, and I've had a lifetime of chronic health problems. And the thing with EDS is every test is always normal. And people, you know, a lot of doctors, understandably, because the tests are all normal, kind of gaslight you or dismiss you. And so I had spent my whole life just sucking it up, right? I would. I would say, well, something is very wrong. And I would go to a million doctors and they'd tell me it was fine. And so I'd just say, okay, I guess I have to live with this. Sometimes it would go away, sometimes it wouldn't. But I would just keep trudging on. And I am a fifth generation entrepreneur, so that was in my blood and that was what I had been taught. I saw it in my mom, who was a CEO and founder. I followed her around, I watched her run a company. And so that was the only thing I knew to get through things, which was to basically, like, with as little complaining as possible, suck it up and get through it. And what happened during COVID was, you know, I was traveling 250,000 miles a year as a coach and a keynote speaker, and all of a sudden I stopped. And I think there was something about just like the adrenaline crash and the stress and everything that was going on. My symptoms got unbelievably bad, like to the point over the course of about a year where I was completely bedridden. I was still speaking at the time. So that was like towards the tail end of COVID I would drag myself out of bed, I would go, I would spend the night somewhere, I'd give a talk, I'd come back, I wouldn't be able to get out of bed for the next week. But it wasn't just physical what I was experiencing. I was feeling like, you know, I have all these resilience practices. I do my gratitude every day. I meditate, I, you know, turn to my husband at the time for social support. And I like doubled down on all these resilience practices and all of a sudden they weren't working and I was just not okay. And I wasn't not okay because of the physical stuff, because I had really spent a lifetime dealing with it. It was just worse than it had been. I was not okay because I felt like there was something in me that had run out. And at the time, strangely, I had started a study, actually, in February of 2020. I had just trained a team of about 10 research assistants. And the name of the study was When Bad Things Happen. And so our recruiting was made much easier by lockdown. So we were talking to people about, when something bad happens, what do you do? How do you get through it? And we found that there were basically, like, three responses. You know, the thing can break you, you can bounce back from it, or somehow you get better, wiser, and stronger. And the third group was a very small group, but very long story short, what we discovered was that third group was no more resilient than anybody else. Their level of resilience didn't predict whether they got better and stronger in a crisis. And so that led me down into this whole thing where I read 500 articles on resilience. And I discovered that the researchers who have been looking at this since literally the 1950s are like, this can't be your only coping strategy. People have a limited amount of resilience. And going back to your original question, I know this is the longest answer ever, but it's really complex, is some people have more resilience than others in general, and in certain situations, some people have more resilience than others, but we all have a ceiling. So what I experienced during COVID was hitting what we named my resilience ceiling. And it can be so. It's confusing. It's even, like, shameful for people like us. Right? Like, I've gotten through every other crisis in my life, and all of a sudden I can't get. And so, yeah, it was a fascinating experience. I wish I hadn't lived it at the same time, But I think that's the only reason I was able to figure out what was going on.
- [30:52]
Michael Chernow
Why do some people have more resilience than others? Like, is it hereditary?
- [30:59]
Dr. Nicole LePera
That's a great question. So I'm not. There is some research suggesting that there is a hereditary component. It's not. There isn't a consensus about that, But I think there's enough evidence that we can say, like, yes, some people constitutionally, are more resilient than others. The other thing, though, is you sort of think about it like, almost like a bell curve, but not quite. So if you've had no hardship in your life whatsoever, you're probably not gonna be super resilient. Although I would argue almost no one is in that position. Right. If you've had a Kind of a moderate level of hardship, you tend to be a little bit more resilient. But if you're somebody who has lived with a chronic illness, who is in a marginalized group, who has had trauma, who has had horrible childhood experiences, this adage of what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. It's actually not scientifically true. People who have had more challenges in their lives, they sometimes learn how to suck it up and get through them, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're more resilient. And so I think there's something I call grit gaslighting, which is where we blame ourselves and others for understandably cracking under a certain amount of stress. And I think the reason grit gaslighting is bad in general, but one of the reasons it's so bad is that we don't always have complete control over our level of resilience.
- [32:33]
Michael Chernow
So do you think that there are certain people and I'm just like questioning myself here, right?
- [32:37]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Because it's good self awareness.
- [32:40]
Michael Chernow
But I have certainly been resilient in my life and I am kind of like a self proclaimed die on the hiller, you know, Like, I just will. And I, I'm curious though, if that's just who I am. Like, am I self aware? I mean, am I resilient to in like an abnormal way, or am I just fudgeing, faking it? Like, have I, like, am I actually resilient or am I just. I've gotten so good at like dealing with the pain that I don't know any other way.
- [33:25]
Dr. Nicole LePera
I can't answer that question for you. That was a similar series of questions that I asked myself during this program. And what I discovered was when we are so when our default is sucking it up, at best, we're getting by, right? If sort of all these hardships are coming at us and we're like, it's okay, I got through the day, I'm sucking it up, I didn't fall apart. And I started to wonder, don't we deserve more than that? Don't we deserve more than being like, yes, I lived with Lyme disease today. Good for me. I lived with EDS today. And there's sort of this paradox of the second skill set of becoming shatterproof, which is recognizing our pain and harnessing it to proactively transform. So resilience, I think this idea of like, I'm gonna power through, I'm gonna die on the hill, I'm gonna stay on this hill, but maybe there's a different hill, or maybe there's A mountain you wanna climb or maybe you wanna go down in altitude. Metaphorically. Right. And I think we don't even allow ourselves that grace to like, if I'm in a terrible job and I come home every day and I'm like, yeah, I made it through another day, you know, is an overly simplistic example, but maybe there's a job for me that I'm gonna be really happy with. Maybe I need to do something totally different. And those are the stories of the people that I share in Shatterproof are these people who were like, wait a minute, maybe I don't have to be doing this anymore. Maybe I should actually focus on what do I need? And is it okay that I'm cracking? Is it okay that I'm breaking? Because it's gonna give me data to inform how I can have a better life.
- [35:26]
Michael Chernow
How impactful is habit and routine in this kind of lifestyle? Like, I'm not saying, look, I also should probably say, you know, oh, I've gotten so good at dealing with the pain. My life is pretty damn awesome. Thank God.
- [35:43]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Amazing.
- [35:44]
Michael Chernow
And I don't. It's not like I walk around. Woe is me, because I just don't all the time sometimes.
- [35:52]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Well, we all have our days.
- [35:54]
Michael Chernow
Yeah. Sometimes.
- [35:54]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Whether or not we're Shatterproof.
- [35:55]
Michael Chernow
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, for me, habit, ritual, routine has been such a monumental piece of my happiness barometer. Because if you have a habit, if you have a routine, a string of habits, however you want to classify it that you do, whether you feel good or feel bad, there's a level of consistency there that makes us feel whole or at least for me. So a, like, how impactful is it in general when it comes to resilience, habit and routine? And do you have routines that you do on a regular basis that you could share with us?
- [36:44]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yes. I knew you were going to ask me this question and I think it's a very profound concept. And here's what I have to offer. I. I think if they are the right habits, you're golden. I think sometimes we stick to habits that we might have outgrown in the spirit of endurance and resilience. One example for me is this is kind of maybe something that a lot of people can relate to is when I was building my business and I was a little bit healthier, I was working 12, 14 hour days and I was, you know, I was tired, but I was energized. My habit was like, I would work, you know, a certain number of hours, I would take a break for dinner I would go back to what I was doing. I was writing a book at the time. I was, you know, doing all this stuff. If I had continued that habit, it would have literally killed me at this point. And so I think habits are incredibly powerful. As long as we're continually reexamining, is this the right habit for me?
- [38:01]
Michael Chernow
But I kind of think of that more as a lifestyle choice than a habit.
- [38:05]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yeah. Okay, so let's make that distinction. I think that's a good point.
- [38:08]
Michael Chernow
I think, like, because I also was specifically in the beginning of my career, like, I lived the lifestyle of what we think of as the hardcore entrepreneur, which is working to death, basically. I don't think there's a better way to put it, because if I had continued working the way I was when I opened up my first business, I would probably have had a heart attack and died at this point because I was working 16 hours a day, seven days a week, didn't take a day off. That, in my opinion, is like a true lifestyle choice. And I kind of think of habit as like, you know, habits are sit on both sides of the tracks. Right. Like, I think traditionally we think of habits, like when people hear the word habit, they're like, oh, I gotta break that habit, I gotta crush that habit. But really, there's the other side of habit, which is the habit that I'm trying to promote, which is better habits. Right. Better habits, better life, better choices. Yeah. So are there things that you do not like, things that you do on a daily basis that help propel your resilience?
- [39:25]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yes. Maybe that's the ultimate question is what habits are giving me more resilience? Resources versus the habits that I'm stuck to out of obligation. Because I do want to make that distinction. Let me start with the second category. We've all been taught that if we do all of these resilience practices, and I mentioned some examples of like, I'm going to sit down and write in my gratitude journal for 20 minutes or I'm going to meditate or whatever. By and large, those things are going to be helpful most of the time. But where I think we have to be careful with any habit is is it ever feeling like piling on instead of providing relief? Here's an example. I had a habit that I went to before I got much sicker. I was an Orange Theory Fitness, like, super fan, and I would go three times a week and it was amazing. Right. But I outgrew that habit because my body was changing. And so if I had continued, even though that's healthy. That's a resilience practice. Working out, it's great. It's great for you, but if I hadn't reevaluated that, it would not be a productive habit. So I think that distinction still matters.
- [40:46]
Michael Chernow
That's where the self awareness comes in.
- [40:48]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Well, and what I always say is I have just as much, if not more work to do on my self awareness than the average person. So it took me a little. It always takes me a little longer to discover the answer. But here's one way that I kind of shore up my resilience on a daily basis. And this is kind of a new habit. I put it in my Microsoft to do every day. And sometimes it takes less than a minute, and it's called a connection bid. So there's research that shows that the power and quality of our relationships isn't dependent on these huge dramatic acts that we do for each other. It's based on every day kind of reaching out to other people. And when you reach out to that other person, do they accept your bid or do they leave your text message unread for two days? Right. Or do they make you feel small or unheard or unseen? And so what I try to do now once a day, especially because I think living with a chronic illness, sometimes you get so focused on you and just getting through the day that I don't know, for me, at least, I can get too much in myself, is to just reach out to a friend. It's usually a text, sometimes it's a call. But frankly, who has that kind of time? And I just, I'll send them an article and be like, hey, I read this and I thought of you. So I'm giving them a connection bid. And because I have made some very difficult decisions in my life about who to keep and who are those people that return my bids and kind of help me feel that sense of belonging and connection. It's really been transformational. And it sounds so crazy, right? Like, how could a text of like a funny meme that you send someone change everything? But over time, that's how we build and strengthen our relationships.
- [42:46]
Michael Chernow
You know, I'm so happy you say that. I do something very similar where a couple of times a week, I will open up my phone and I'll just scroll, kind of random scroll.
- [42:57]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Oh, I love it.
- [42:58]
Michael Chernow
Random scroll. I'll go. I'll go like five, six, seven times, and then boom, I'll land on somebody and I'll just shoot them a random text and say, hey, just zipping. Through my phone, your name showed up. Shooting you a text. Just wanted to check in on you, see how you're doing. And then I'll go the other way three times. Boom. And I'll do that like five times. And honestly, it's been so gratifying because I tend to, like, reconnect with people that I haven't spoken to in a long time. Sometimes it just goes completely blank and no one responds.
- [43:31]
Dr. Nicole LePera
But that's data, by the way.
- [43:34]
Michael Chernow
That's smart. That's true. Yeah, that's true. But I think that I love that little piece of. It takes no time at all. And it's an opportunity to connect because I think at the end of the day, realistically, we're. We're love beings, right? Like, we're love beings. There's not many beings on this planet that are love beings. It's like us, elephants, dolphins, and. And I think penguins, like, do that.
- [44:06]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yeah, definitely penguins.
- [44:07]
Michael Chernow
Penguins, yeah. But, you know, like, there's not many of us in, In. In the, you know, in. In the world of wild nature that have the ability to express love and receive it. We're one of them. And because of that, I believe that that's. That's kind of our primary purpose in life. And a lot of the decisions that we make via good or bad are in the name of looking for love and. Or trying to express love. And that's not a topic of conversation much these days.
- [44:48]
Dr. Nicole LePera
And you're 100% correct scientifically. Also. One of the ways we become Shatterproof is we focus on our three hardwired human needs, and one of them is connection. There are some researchers that actually argue that connection is our hardest wired, deepest human need.
- [45:15]
Michael Chernow
I would imagine that. I would imagine that because I do think. I mean, I'm serious when I say I do believe that that is, like, what we were put on the planet to do.
- [45:23]
Dr. Nicole LePera
I agree.
- [45:24]
Michael Chernow
You know, I agree. Someone picking up Shatterproof and reading the book, like, as you were writing it, what were you hoping they would take away from the book?
- [45:37]
Dr. Nicole LePera
So my goal in all situations of service is to help people live a little bit better of a life. It's true for coaching, it's true for speaking, it's true for writing. And I think what Shatterproof does, the reason I needed this book and what I help, I hope it's helping other people do, is we live in a world of increasing chaos, complexity, disruption, crisis, challenge, and to try to find a way to stop just getting by in that sort of undeniable world. And by the way it's not going away anytime soon, I think we can all agree, is to find one or two ways that you can feel better, do better, live better. That's what it's done for me. And I will say that the process of becoming shatterproof in and of itself is a habit. So we have to choose that every day. But I'm also a pragmatist. If we can choose it five days out of seven, four days out of seven, I think we're gonna live a little bit better of a life.
- [46:54]
Michael Chernow
Is there a way? Like, do you think this is just like, if you had to break it down to the simplest terms, is this just a conversation that we're having with ourselves basically, in the beginning of the day? Ooh, maybe, Maybe, you know, like, if you're committing to being shatterproof, what does the act of that look like, you know?
- [47:17]
Dr. Nicole LePera
So I talk about in the book a four step roadmap, which is probably a couple more clicks down than we have time for today. But the practice of being shatterproof is about harnessing the things that are causing us pain and challenge to get data, to understand how to make choices in better service of our happiness and our peace and our success. So what you said is intriguing to me because I wonder, I mean, if we boil this down to its most fundamental level, the three human needs. I mentioned connection. The second is confidence, feeling like I'm doing well, I'm growing, I'm getting better. The third is choice. Like I'm living with agency and authenticity. Maybe in the simplest terms, it's waking up in the morning and saying, what's one thing I can do today to feel more confident, choiceful and connected?
- [48:26]
Michael Chernow
I think that's a great way to wrap this thing up. I mean, I. Because. Because, you know, my message for the better part of the last 10 years has been the beginning of your day is the time where you lay foundation, right? Like we get today. Yesterday's long gone. Not a single human in history that we know about has ever been able to go back and change it. So it's gone, it's there, it's done, it's history. And tomorrow is not necessarily guaranteed. And I had that thought, you know, it's so crazy. I was walking out of the train station on my way to the. To the podcast studio this morning, and this guy walked down next to me and he looked really angry, and he had his hand in his pocket and he was staring at me. And the thought for a second went through my mind. This guy could easily pull a knife out of his pocket and just stab me right now. Like, I. And I never think that way. I'm born and raised in New York City. Like, I seen a lot of shit that it just like. And I walked by him and I was totally normal and fine. But it just, it was a fleeting thought. Like, tomorrow's just not guaranteed. What are we doing today? And I do think that the morning gives us an opportunity to really lay the foundation. Like, if you wake up to an alarm and you hit snooze, you started to lose. Right? Like you snooze, you lose is a term because it is real. Right. Like once you give up on yourself by pushing that button, it's not like it increases confidence. It not like it's not like it increases your ability of choice. Your choice.
- [50:17]
Dr. Nicole LePera
That's not a choice.
- [50:18]
Michael Chernow
That's not a choice. That's just like throwing in the towel.
- [50:21]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yeah.
- [50:21]
Michael Chernow
Right. So, like, I love how you frame that. And for the listener, I think looking for a tactic to take away from this episode in the morning, ask yourself, what's one way I can be more connected to others today? What's one way that I can be more choiceful today? What's one thing I can do to increase my confidence level?
- [50:42]
Dr. Nicole LePera
I think we blew this thing wide open.
- [50:44]
Michael Chernow
Yeah. I am so grateful you came on the show. Let us know where we can follow along on your journey, where people could find you, where they can grab the book.
- [50:54]
Dr. Nicole LePera
So I'm easily findable. And what I've learned over the years is it's not about me at all. It's about you guys. And so one thing I would point everyone to is it's a free five minute quiz that will tell you how close you are to your resilience ceiling. And the website. I always mess this up. Hang on. Is www.resilience-quiz.com. so it'll tell you on a couple of dimensions, like how close you are and then it'll give you a couple of tools and immediate actions you can take.
- [51:29]
Michael Chernow
Wow, that is so cool.
- [51:30]
Dr. Nicole LePera
I know. It's. It's pretty cool. We had fun developing it and it's. People seem to really be finding it helpful.
- [51:35]
Michael Chernow
I love that. So It's. So it's resilience-quiz.com.
- [51:40]
Dr. Nicole LePera
You got it.
- [51:41]
Michael Chernow
Sick. The book is shatterproof and people can just find you on social media.
- [51:47]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Yes. As much as social media is a blessing and a curse. I am always there.
- [51:52]
Michael Chernow
Awesome. Thank you so much.
- [51:54]
Dr. Nicole LePera
Thank you. It's a pleasure.
- [51:56]
Michael Chernow
Thank you guys. We talked about resilience we talked about self awareness, and those are two topics that are like, those words are used often, but really drilling into them is not something that most people do. Like, when you hear the word resilience, you just think of someone that is able to get through shit and come back stronger. Right. But you don't really, like, there is science behind it, actually science behind it, which is so, so cool. And, you know, being able to sit down with somebody who's spent years studying this stuff, especially self awareness. How long did you study self awareness?
- [52:34]
Dr. Nicole LePera
12 years and counting.
- [52:36]
Michael Chernow
Pick up the book Shatterproof. You know, I'm like, I've questioned so many things just sitting here listening and how engaged I've been. You know, I'm definitely gonna read the book. And I think I'm also going to start asking myself those three questions in the morning. How can I be more choiceful? What is one thing I can do today, really one thing I can do to actually increase my level of confidence? And then what can I do to be a little bit more connected to the people in my life? What an episode. I really, really would ask you guys to share this one. Send it to your friend, send it to your mom, send it to your brother, post it on social media, give us a five star rating and a review if you're feeling super generous and keep listening. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode, tuning in, being subscribed, all those good things. And until the next one, y', all, peace.