Loading summary
Transcript177 lines
- [00:00]
A
The idea of taking like 75 new things at one time and not kind of building on top to have any understanding, like, what do you know is working? Where is it coming from? Oh, I got a, like I had a side effect from something, but I have no way to break it apart.
- [00:16]
B
Because I'm on 45 things at one.
- [00:17]
A
Time and the product literally is all of it in a bag. Like what you went through and whether or not someone has something that's kind of acute or they transition into longevity maintenance. It is an evolving process. And, and for me, part of our mission is going to be driving down the costs of these things. The interaction, the intersection of capitalism and health is a really kind of fucked up space. These products are things that you should be taking for decades, yet they're priced, optimizing for three months at a time. Three months at a time. And it boggles my mind.
- [00:54]
B
Michael. I'm Michael Chernow and this is the Creatures of Habit podcast. Our habits will make us or break us. It's just that simple. I've lived on both sides of the tracks and have learned that the decisions we make on a consistent basis truly define who we are as human beings. On this show, I will be interviewing some of the most inspiring, motivating and.
- [01:17]
C
High performing humans I've encountered to share their daily habits, routines and rituals that.
- [01:23]
B
Help them stay on top of their game and, and ultimately happy. So sit back, relax, and pay attention because what you hear over the next 30 to 45 minutes could potentially change your life. Let's go. So, Blade. I remember Blade. I worked in the Hamptons for years as a kid, as a young kid. And I remember the drive to the Hamptons from the city is a fucking nightmare. It's just a nightmare. And, and so when Blade, like popped off, I was like, this is incredible. What. Tell me about Blade.
- [02:03]
A
Okay, so Blade, for me, Blade is an interesting story because, you know, my, my history is basically, I founded Groupme and then Blade and Splice at the same time. I was running Splice and Rob Wiesenthal, who was a GroupMe investor, came in my office one day and was like, you know, he had this problem and it was kind of like this, him and Donnie Deutsch taking off at the same time. And helicopter, like we would have shared the helicopter, you know, like, literally that, like total, like, what story that you're, as a kid, you're just like, what is happening here? And I was like, well, you know, he was like, we gotta fix this. And I was like, if Elon has A rocket company on the side. I can do a helicopter company on the side. And so, you know, it was really Rob's dream. And then I did the name, the initial branding, the app, kind of some first team members. And then he ran it and, you know, I was just on the board and got to see what he created. And I think the thing that we had realized is that there was a chance, like if you look at everything I've done, I really like to create like category defining kind of companies where there's not real competition, there's just like a whole new way of doing things and doing it that much better. I once had a VC say like, you know, most things we see is like 10% better in a market and like everything you do is like 10x better than the experience that existed before. And so that's it. And then I got to kind of sit and watch this emerge as a New York City phenomenon and be so iconic and showing up in movies and TV shows and just being one of those things that I would just get these texts that would just be like I said, the best experience revolutionized my life, either from the Hamptons or the airport. I mean, that's the accessible one that I would get more texts about because it would be like, I got to JFK in four minutes. So you know what Rob built, really incredible. It went public via spac. It's still, you know, it's still kicking and it's been an incredible thing to watch, you know, the initial effort then blossom into something.
- [04:04]
B
Yeah. For those listening that don't know what Blade is, Blade is essentially a. It's a helicopter company, basically.
- [04:11]
A
Right.
- [04:11]
B
It's a transportation business that takes people from New York City to either the Hamptons or to the local airports to beat the traffic.
- [04:19]
A
Yeah. And that's like core products we do, you know, there's a bunch of other cities that, you know, it operates in. There's an organ transplant business, transport business, and you know, there's been jets to Miami. It's kind of a short haul aviation company as they look at it.
- [04:34]
B
Very cool.
- [04:34]
A
It's just like got those iconic routes.
- [04:38]
B
Do you think you were born an entrepreneur or do you think you were honed over time?
- [04:43]
A
I tried to register giftcertificates.com in 6th grade and someone had already taken it. But I think being. It's like literally wanted to be a software entrepreneur since I was, Before I knew how to program, before I knew anything. Kind of like initial exposure to a computer. Because for me, I'm a Programmer and an entrepreneur. And code is my canvas. Not a great artist, not great at sports. And that was the real place for me that I just felt like I could get into flow state and create. And so it was the more I tapped into it, the more the feedback loop just inspired and inspired. But it was there from very early on.
- [05:22]
B
What do you think that is like, if you had to define what that is? Because, you know, I think a lot of people, and I'm not talking about entrepreneurs here, I'm talking about just the masses can spend their whole lives trying to understand what their passion is, what their thing is. So why do you think you were inclined to understand this about yourself at such a young age?
- [05:45]
A
I think I was born with a lot of curiosity and a lot of almost challenging the system. I remember organizing a school wide protest in sixth grade about not going to Splish Splash Water park for graduation. Why can't we do this? And it was that kind of curiosity and challenge. And how I got started on getting deeper with computers is like mom bought me this computer and I kept getting viruses on it, trying to get free games and stuff. And every time it would break, she'd be like, eventually she was like, I can't pay to have this fixed anymore. So I broke it again. And then I was like, I gotta fix it myself. And so that kind of like. Then there's this kind of dopamine rush that comes like I'm decently ADD and the dopamine rush for me and solving problems in code and computers before it was just tinkering and all that, before I even got into programming, it just really hits for me and it really feeds off me. So I'd say it's a mix of curiosity, a bit of the challenge of what the world could look like. That feels like it was in there from the start. And then finding the right medium in order to get that loop going, the inspiration loop going.
- [07:00]
B
I want to talk about supco, but before that I want to ask you about your absolute biggest fail, the most devastating fail you've had along your journey.
- [07:14]
A
Okay, yeah, that's easy. So the hit rate's been very good on the startups you've heard of. And then before that, right out of college, I worked one job and then I started a company called simpact Technologies and we were, I initially started to try to do the digital version of the Lance Armstrong bracelet to put on your MySpace page. And it was this dynamic image that would. Because you could only put images on your MySpace page and it was this unique tech that would change images when you open them. It turns out that that was good for email marketing. And I ended up building that. Raised some money from just my family. Couldn't get any outside investors. This was like 2007, 2008, New York City, New York City. Tech investing wasn't really like a thing yet. Got a couple good clients, got like, you know, Starbucks, 100 flowers. Things were going well, but I just burned out of all my family's money. You know, like, this was friends and family and all that kind of stuff.
- [08:16]
B
How much did you raise?
- [08:18]
A
Like, probably 120 grand, which was not nothing. My parents always said this was like the masters you decided not to go do. And so they were like, very supportive, but I felt terrible about it. I ended up going and working a job at Gilt Group, and some friends were really inspired and started down the path of doing this company. Later. The idea, the kind of concept, they gave me some equity as an advisor, and they ended up building it into a huge business called Movable Inc. And it was really amazing. They've done an incredible job. It was a real fail at the time. And it's been a. They just announced that they're selling the company right now, which is kind of amazing. And it's. It's so. It's a fail that has had a happy ending over time. But it was. It's a good 20 years of just knowing I'd let my. What felt to me like I had let my parents down.
- [09:13]
B
Do you still sit with that, you think?
- [09:14]
A
You know, my dad passed away during COVID pretty early. During COVID he got to see the groupme success, which was good, and he was inspired by what had become. But he never got to see me fully blossom into who I am today. So I don't get to share the whole journey there. So I have a little bit of regret losing him at that point. But my mom's been there through all of it, and it's been great to see it kind of blossom. So I sat with it for a while, and I still think there's more, you know, to do to support the family and think about how to inspire, you know, the next generations and things like that. Because that shot, if I didn't have that shot from my parents, like, you know, there was no one else going to fund me at that point in time.
- [10:02]
B
I think I know the answer to this question, but I'm going to ask anyway. When you're ideating and creating, about to launch a business or, you know, it's Just brewing and there's no stopping. You're just freight train, you're going to do it. How much does the monetary outcome matter to you?
- [10:23]
A
Okay, easy answers. In the beginning, nothing. Groupme was made to go to concerts with their friends because I just wanted the app to exist. And Splice was made to everyone in the world. Even coming off GroupMe success was like, please don't build a music company, please don't build a music creation company. The market's too small, you're never going to be successful. There's so many dead bodies. I was like, ah, this is what I want to do because if I don't get into that loop of inspiration, I'm worthless. So it has to be at its core the desire to create the thing in the world. I have to be very inspired to go do that. With Supco, there was a little more about. There was probably. Splice has gone on for 10 plus years. It is a $150 million ARR. Defied all the odds to build something big, but it's still up against market size pressure in terms of becoming a public company and all these kind of what does a real VC ending look like in all of its glory? With Sepco, I definitely did have an intention of wanting to at least play in a much bigger market and one that still had that inspiration loop. For me, it's less about what the financial outcome looks like this time, but more about making sure I'm playing in a pretty uncapped scenario. And that's what, you know, that's what I'm doing now.
- [11:50]
B
Supco is a business that you have now brought to fruition and is out there in the market because you spent some time dealing with some health stuff.
- [12:02]
A
Yeah, I mean I spent 30 years dealing with some health stuff. I would say I was as a kid, I was the like 6 foot 5, like 270 pound, like guy that would make the football team and the basketball team and everything and then just disappoint everyone. You know, never drop the weight. No matter how much you know football you're doing two practices a day running non stop weight wouldn't come off. And there's so I was, I got up to £300 at one point and it just, you know, it was a lifelong health struggle and, and then after we sold Groupme, I was like, I can't anymore. Like I need to live. Like this is important. I was turning 30 and found a functional medicine doctor, started doing lab work, got deep, recommitted to diet and exercise and, like, had a transformation, you know, went for it.
- [12:55]
B
So what do you think the catalyst to that transformation was?
- [12:58]
A
Honestly, I think it was working with the doc. When I was a kid, my mom has a hypothyroidism, and. And as a kid, I was just on the low end of normal, and the doctors wouldn't do anything about it. And so starting to take thyroid medicine, dial in my hormones, dial in my supplements, dial in, like, kind of everything, and just. And then create the loop of doing the quarterly blood work. So you're making sure nothing was going off the rails. Gave you a lot more power to, like, experiment, you know, because you had. You had insights into things now. And so, you know, I would. I would have this Google spreadsheet of all my medications and supplements because people would ask, what did you do? What was your transformation? If I said diet and exercise, they're like, no, no, I don't want to hear that. And it was 10 years before Ozempic was the answer. So it was like they would share my stack, and it was just what I was doing. And most of the time, people wouldn't know what to do with it because they're doctors. They didn't know a doctor to work with on these kinds of things. And so that was kind of like a core thing. I remembered that after Splice, I stepped down as CEO. I don't know, it was 2023, 2022, and I wanted to build again this, like, desire to create. Desire to build. And can I just.
- [14:09]
B
I don't want to derail this, but now that you said that, I think it would be really interesting to try to encapsulate what that is, because I think for entrepreneurs, it's very difficult for us to fight that urge. Right. When that thing comes, when it comes, like, when that desire to create something comes. Can you just get into that a tiny bit?
- [14:32]
A
Just so, yeah, recently I've been being asked that question, like, why are you doing this again? It's so hard. And to me, it's kind of like asking a musician not to create another album. You know, it's just, like, so flowing in you that, like, you don't know where to put the energy that. That is running, literally, like running through you.
- [14:48]
B
I think that's such a great way to put it. It's like a musician, you know, creating another album.
- [14:52]
A
Yeah. And it's like, I don't. I don't really know. I did about a year off after stepping down, and I did. We went, Fell in love, went to Antarctica, went to Egypt did this. All the travels, all the great stuff was great. And then it was like, okay, cool, I need to build. And to me, it's not even just ideating, it's literally picking up the paintbrush for me, which is programming. And so I just wanted to get sharp on. It was a weird transition, the whole founder to CEO transition, and is a very difficult topic for me. And I think it's a difficult topic for most entrepreneurs who get past a certain level of success where you really need to move into a CEO mode and you're managing and you're doing that stuff. And that was not the easiest for me. And I just wanted to pick up the pencil and go again.
- [15:44]
B
Be a founder.
- [15:45]
A
Yeah. And so I was like, I hadn't really full time programmed in a decade or anything like that. And I wanted to get my skills sharp. And then it's just like kind of playing with the code and then being like, I need to build something. And it was like, what was going to cause that loop that I'm talking about that just like. I mean, I wake up, people ask me, like, what keeps you up at night? And it's like, well, what keeps me up is just getting excited about building the next thing and then wanting to build it in the morning. That's what keeps me up at night. And so that I got into the loop and the pattern, and then you're like, all right, well, this is going to be a company. And then you're like, okay, I want to hire some more people. Let's raise some money and then let's go do it again.
- [16:23]
B
I love that you said that because, you know, it's interesting. So I came from the restaurant world, right? And I built it. Probably too many restaurants in a short period of time.
- [16:32]
A
And I didn't know which meatball shop to order from. I had so many options in my delivery service.
- [16:39]
B
The thing about being in the CPG world now, which is cool for me, is that I have this. I very deliberately did not, you know, we sell this high protein overnight oatmeal, but I very deliberately did not, like, make the business. I didn't name the business Oatmeal, right? Like, there was. There's no oatmeal anywhere around, right? So that it'd give me an opportunity to create products, right? Because every time, like, I'm not a spray and pray create product guy and have 45 different SKUs on them on the platform. But every single SKU. We've only done two, but we're on to our third now. Has taken like a strong year and a half. Ish. To like, truly dive into and R and D and create and build. And so I feel like now with this business, I'm going to be here for a little bit longer because I have that, that, that itch, that urge to build, to create, to generate, to innovate, to renew, I could do in this business, you know, and so I just wanted to touch on that because I think you just, you said it within the first minute of answering the question. It's like a musician creating another album. Like, you don't question when your favorite band.
- [17:53]
A
Why did you make your 17th album?
- [17:55]
B
And it's so funny though, like, entrepreneurs could potentially get shit for like, correct. For creating multiple businesses. Right. And be like, oh, you know, you're bouncing around and it's actually like, no, you know, you said that your code is essentially your canvas. Right. You are a fucking artist. You just are. Right. And it's, it's, it's, you know, essentially excreting that energy that is produced in an artistic way, not on a canvas traditionally, but in a business form.
- [18:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. And like, you know, it's funny because the price, so much more focus on the product and like, you know, the experience and then the kind of business and company emerge from just trying to bring this thing into existence. Right. And like, I usually don't go in with any idea of what the business model is going to be. GroupMe never even made any money. You know, it's still a top 30 app in the App Store, but it's, it's that just that raw core desire that gets you going. And I think you're being really smart by not putting, you know, the oats and that stuff in the name because you understand that you want like a platform to deliver the message or the world that you're trying to create kind of not just as the individual product in there. And, you know, as we went down the path with Supco as well, it was like the stack sharing was the initial kind of concept, but then it has now blossomed into like, trying to solve the entire industry, which is riddled with issues at every step of the journey.
- [19:23]
B
So it's, let's dive into Subco and then I want to ask you a little bit about your personal habits, because I think it'd be interesting to hear about your habits not only as an entrepreneur, but now as a wellness entrepreneur.
- [19:34]
A
Sure.
- [19:35]
B
So my understanding is basically it's a platform where you can not only discover new supplements that have been vetted through your Your, your teams, but also people can share their supplement stacks and they can also learn whether their supplements, the supplements that, that they are currently taking are viable or not. Right?
- [19:56]
A
Yeah. I mean, look, all those things. We are trying to make sense of supplements for you at every step of the journey. We want everyone in America to be on the tailored, optimized supplement stack that is right for them and that is a journey for. Some people already have it and they could see what could I be doing better. And some people need to get started from scratch. And so, you know, if you're already taking stuff, we've got a nice little barcode scanner scan your products. We see you can see the trust score rating all the inactive ingredients, whether the manufacturing standards are right. And then you put them all together and we give you a score that helps you kind of, you know, see where you are against your health goals and, and give you the ability to kind of like take next steps to optimizing your stack further. I don't think a lot of people just know what to do next or they've started taking things from random advice they've gotten over the years and don't have a cohesive plan around it. So we're kind of with you every step of the journey from figuring out what is well researched, nutrient wise for different health goals, which brands and products to trust, and then things like, are you taking them at the right time, Are you taking them with food, Are you taking them in the morning, are you taking them at night? And then the thing that we're diving way deeper into right now too is are they driving the expected outcome for.
- [21:05]
B
You and how are you sort of quantifying that?
- [21:08]
A
Yeah, so, I mean, that's the system we're kind of going through right now is figuring out what are the kind of objective, hard data, things we can do from wearable data, blood markers, all that kind of stuff that is expected for what you're doing. What are the subjective things like how are you feeling, what is your mood? And that kind of stuff. And then the last one I'm playing with is like, are you just adhering to what the science says? Because you might not be able that we might not have enough ways to kind of quantify this yet. But if you do those things and you know you're not experiencing side effects along the way, you can, you can give it a critical look and see whether or not it should be in your stack next month.
- [21:46]
C
Interrupting this episode to share with you how we keep this podcast going, and that is by you supporting us through trying out or subscribing to Meal 1 on creaturesofhabit.com I am giving a 20% discount on your first order or your first subscription order which is a serious discount. Meal 1 is a superfood meal. It is a blend of gluten and glyphosate free oats. It is packed with 30 grams of plant based protein, omega 3 fatty acids, a probiotic, digestive enzymes, vitamin D3. It also has chia seeds, flax seeds, pumpkin seeds and a little bit of pink Himalayan Salt. There are 37 grams of healthy carbohydrates and anywhere from 7 to 10 grams of fat depending on the flavor. You will be full for hours people. I promise you. We developed meal 11 to help you perform at your absolute best to get that incredibly healthy and convenient edge on the competition. There is not a better, more convenient meal to start your day with or use as a pre or post workout meal. The macros are perfect and sourced with the cleanest ingredients in the game. Take your performance to the next level, make your life much easier by saving time, be able to eat healthy without sacrificing flavor and all while staying full for hours, making your urge to snack far far less. Hop over to creaturesofhabit.com that is creaturesofhabit.com and use promo code K O H P O d the number 20 for your first order of meal one today. Back to the pod.
- [23:11]
B
Are you contemplating building blood work into the business?
- [23:17]
A
Look, I don't think we're we have a nice partnership with Function Health. I'm an investor in Function Health. Mark Hyman is an advisor of ours and you can see his protocols on our platform. His personal stack is on the platform. We're gonna allow people to bring their blood work in. We won't be collecting it or trying to do it and it can come from whatever source you need to with.
- [23:36]
B
Our and so you can drop in your blood work.
- [23:39]
A
Not yet. Not yet. But as I said the outcome measuring and the next levels of personalization like you know we launched this thing in October of 24 and it has just been, it hasn't even been out for a year in a beta and it's just been a hit and we haven't like finished the platform yet. It's doing so much and our users like we have a 72 NPS which is just like so great to see as an entrepreneur when people love your product that much and we're still not done right and so we're building and.
- [24:11]
B
It'S give us Some stories, some stuff that kind of opened your eyes a little bit in terms of, like, research that you've done, supplements that you've uncovered are not really.
- [24:22]
A
Yeah, I mean, the biggest one that comes to mind, we did our first real independent lab testing work on creatine recently. And, you know, the creatine powders for the most part came back great and clean. But, like, everybody's on gummies right now. And of the four of the top six creatine gummies on Amazon had zero creatine in them.
- [24:44]
B
That is wild.
- [24:46]
A
0. 0. Or what is known as a fairy dusting, which is so little, it's like you'd have to take 2,000 of them to be a fast.
- [24:51]
B
I have a question for you. So do you think that has anything to do with the way these things are blended, that the gummies that were tested just didn't get the.
- [25:02]
A
So here's the thing. Like, you know, we were talking to the lab about it, and when you looked at the gummy, it was like, totally clear. Like, there was. Like, it was clear that there was not the product.
- [25:12]
B
So they just legitimately just did not add creatine to the gummies?
- [25:15]
A
No. And we found a bunch of them on Alibaba, so we don't even know they could be reselling ones from Alibaba. That was just a box that says creatine gummy. And the problem is they get the highest reviews because they taste good and the ones that actually have the creatine don't taste as good, so they get lower Amazon reviews. So you've got this cycle of the bad stuff coming to the top. And two of them, as the last time I checked, two of them had been pulled off Amazon and the other ones are getting a bunch of negative comments. And, you know, we'll see what happens on it. But we got picked up and Wired it got picked up in the information. It's got. It got really out there.
- [25:54]
B
When did you do this?
- [25:55]
A
This is only, you know, a few weeks ago. So in June, you know, so this is new. And then now here's the thing. We have a lot more coming and you're going to see a pretty regular creatine infrastructure. And, you know, I'm not going to spoil it now, but some of the.
- [26:09]
B
Man, come on.
- [26:10]
A
Some of the most.
- [26:10]
B
This is the spoiler.
- [26:11]
A
Let's go. Spoilers of what? Without the results. You're going to see some in depth on nad. You're going to see some in depth on Urolithin A, which is a really Cool. Well researched nutrient. But what products should you be able to trust? And then you're going to see some really interesting research on some of the influencer Dr. Brands and we'll see if they pass the test.
- [26:34]
B
Wow. It's so interesting because I am so deep in the supplement world. I have been using supplements for a long time. I've been, you know, wellness really saved my life. It came into my life when I was at my absolute bottom 20, almost 21 years ago. And before it was what called wellness. Right.
- [27:01]
A
It was just like you doing your thing.
- [27:03]
B
Yeah. It was just like someone had said, hey, dude, you need to be healthier. This is the way to go, you know. So I've been using supplements a lot and I use a lot of supplements to the day and I work with some brands that I genuinely love. But the fact is that it's hard to really feel when a supplement is working or not. Right. And unless you are doing quarterly blood work, which I do, you definitely don't know if these things are working or not. You know what I mean? Like, it's so hard. So having a business like yours that gives people true leverage on being able to say, okay, you know what, Like, I might not feel this, but I'm.
- [27:48]
A
Following the science, following what other users who might be doing the blood work and I'm not are reporting that it's working for them. And then you know, what blood work to do to see the result, which I don't even know if some people know which tests to run. So on that front, what's cool about the brands you work with, the brands you love, you can go see the trust score for them on the platform. And what's cool is even if they're not good, we have been seeing. What I love too is where the brands want to be better. There are good brands out there. And they're like, thank you for exposing how much work we're doing and giving us credit for all this research. They spend so much money on some of this stuff. And then there are other brands that are like, yeah, we should remove titanium dioxide from our product. And you know, the Maha movement just got it removed from Skittles and you know, all these other things. And you know, we've gotten it out of some pretty big name, you know, supplements already just by showing it on the site as like.
- [28:42]
B
So, I mean, I guess I want to call these guys out because I just want to know, like, you know, everybody kind of is anybody in the world of supplements that takes it seriously is of the belief that Thorn is kind of like the.
- [28:57]
A
I love Thorne top dog. Yeah. I mean look, Thorne is a 9.44 as a brand on the platform and the difference of from 9:1 to 10 is like. Yeah, you're in really good territory there. Right. Like the things that like a metagenics are doing, that's like a 10.0 is like they publish every one of their independent lot tests online for consumers to go look up. Like there are like true, true over the top gold standards that you can go do. And Thorne is in that upper echelon there better than 99 of the brands that are on the platform.
- [29:30]
B
What about Pori? Do you know those guys?
- [29:31]
A
Pori?
- [29:32]
B
Pori. They're out of Denmark.
- [29:34]
A
I don't. We can, we can.
- [29:35]
B
Oh, you gotta check those guys out. So they're, they're like, their main thing is omega 3s. Okay.
- [29:42]
A
But which is like a very important one to, you know, not let it go rancid, especially if it's a fish oil. Like there's some real sensitivities on those.
- [29:50]
B
They're kind of like the Thorn. They're big in the uk. They're kind of like the Thorn out there. I love that brand.
- [29:58]
A
You know what's amazing about this though, the amount of affinity you have. What I've been really noticing too is like people's identities, like supplements as opposed to necessarily other parts of your health are becoming something people are very open and excited to share and like have brand loyalty and they kind of want to show off like, this is the one I'm doing. This is who I believe in. And so the ability. You can go check out my stack on the platform. It's you know, S u p p co Steve and. And like it's becoming like kind of part of our identities, especially as we've put in all this work to like figuring out which ones take and like see our own results. And you're doing all these labs and I'm sure you have like a, like a real feeling for some of these.
- [30:38]
B
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, like I think there's, there's supplements and then there's sports performance supplements as well. Right. And like I love Momentous.
- [30:47]
A
Yeah, I top brand too.
- [30:49]
B
Momentous is a brand that I just, I just will choose no other sports performance.
- [30:55]
A
Sure.
- [30:56]
B
Supplement brand. You know, I took that. And so anybody listening, like, just, just know that like, you know, there are so many out there. Right? There's so many out there and it's so hard to navigate. And if you want to take it seriously, you know, you should know what you're putting into your body.
- [31:13]
A
Yeah. And like, that's like a big piece of, of what people love about the platform is they can look up any product so easily, get a trust score rating, see what inactive ingredients are in there, what they should be worried about and make a decision. And then they also can make the cost versus quality decision. Because, you know, my stack is like, you know, close to $1,000 a month, which is a lot.
- [31:33]
B
What do you. Let's. Can you rattle off your stack real quick?
- [31:36]
A
I mean, if I gave my phone away, but I think we can, I can pull it up and put a couple things in there. But like, you know, something like a timeline with the urolithin a, that's over $100 a month on its own.
- [31:44]
B
Yeah.
- [31:44]
A
You know, and so.
- [31:45]
B
And you think for urolithin a is the one.
- [31:49]
A
I mean, it is a 10 out of 10 on our platform for the clinical research done behind it. I think that most of the high end doctors that you talk to, Mark Hyman, you talk to Darshan Shah and you start to see these guys are like true believers in this product.
- [32:04]
B
And it's a longevity thing, right?
- [32:05]
A
It's a longevity thing. It's about keeps your muscle, your mitochondria and your muscles going strong as you. It stops like muscle loss and it's.
- [32:12]
B
Like a pomegranate extract.
- [32:13]
A
Yeah. And there's a lot of science behind it. Yeah. And in the stack, you know, like I have one of the things that I kind of uncovered similar to you and the wellness thing. I started doing this stuff in 2010, which feels like a long time ago at this point, but I'm probably one of the younger people who was proactively tracking their heart plaque. I did my first calcium scan when I was 30 years old, no plaque. Great. Did it again at 35, had some heart plaque, had an 8, which is a very minor amount. But the fact that I had any, I was off the charts because they didn't have any 35 year olds that had a score at all. And then by the time I was 40, it was up more. And so I had even been on some statin therapy at 35. And then as I hit that next number, I'm very aggressive. I try to keep my LDL at 25, which is nuts. But because of that you need to take CoQ10. I take DHEA and pregnenolone as hormone precursors to help with the other hormone production. And so I have a whole cardiac, I'M on a nattokinase which has got some interesting data. I'm going to get my new clearly soon and to see if I've actually been fighting this heart plaque or not. So I'm going to do it every three years. And you know, I'm really excited to see if these things have been working to cut this stuff back.
- [33:28]
B
There's so many things that we can do. You know, I unfortunately am one of these guys that's from very young. I mean, similar to how I kind of was born like you as a, as a, as a creator. I've also, I was also kind of born a hypochondriac.
- [33:44]
A
Sure.
- [33:45]
B
And so I've always been like, you know, a kid and like third grade got appendicitis and like I just thought I was gonna have appendicitis for most of my life, you know.
- [33:53]
A
I mean, you did have Lyme. Pretty serious Lyme. I heard about your autoimmune. Like, hey, man, the fact that you had that ANA negative test is, dude, insane.
- [34:02]
B
Crazy.
- [34:02]
A
Yeah.
- [34:03]
B
Crazy. And that, and that is the first time that I, from the, from taking blood work with like my primary care.
- [34:12]
A
Yeah.
- [34:12]
B
ANA positive was there. Yeah, so. So showing ANA negative was a big deal.
- [34:16]
A
Yeah. And look, when I heard that, I was like, oh, this needs to be talked about. This needs to be studied. This needs to be understood because we're entering this era. I mean, I love the age of medicine we're in now. Right. As someone who feels like they were completely failed as a kid, the fact that we have the ability to take these things into our own hands, this kind of self directed health movement and see real change is just such an exciting time and it's just kind of accelerating and compounding in a lot of ways, you know, is everyone going to be a biohacker? Especially in an age of AI where so many other responsibilities might get off our plates that it gives us more attention to focus on ourselves. But yeah, I just brought that up because I was so impressed by.
- [34:59]
B
Yeah, me too, man. It was, it was a big, it was a big eye opener for me. And you know, one thing I'll say to that though, is working with a functional doc or a naturopath or you know, integrative medicine doc specifically on a, on a. When you have a target, not just like general overall health, when you have like a target that you're trying to accomplish. The fact is, is that it is a tedious process. I mean, you are going to most likely, whether it's your gut, whether it's autoimmune. Whether it's some sort of a virus or a disease that you're working towards, like you are, you are going to have to take an enormous amount of supplements.
- [35:39]
A
It is just.
- [35:39]
B
And, and it's, and it's a lot and it's costly and there's a lot. And honestly I had to step back because there was a lot of stress around it because I was on like 30 supplements a day, different times of the day before eating 20 after your fifth bite of food, just like, it's a lot. So choosing to take that path is a massive commitment. However, I have pretty significant chronic Lyme, right. And I like, I walk through life pretty awesome.
- [36:16]
A
That's great.
- [36:16]
B
You know, and I have to, and I owe it to literally my first interaction with the functional medicine doc Frank Lippman in 2017. That guy, you know, he single handedly, like looked at me and told me what was wrong with me.
- [36:32]
A
You know, I mean, that feeling of actually there are so many people that have, you know, even my fiance has like a kind of undiagnosed autoimmune that, you know, hasn't flared up in a long time, but it kind of pokes its head up a little bit and just the hopelessness that they, that you can have when you're going on. I mean, I had two employees who went through the Lyme battle, got the complete shit kicked out of them, like, and went through it all. And I think that the thing is, especially with managing your stack when it comes to the supplements, I think it's an evolving process. I think some people, if they jump in one day and think that they should take. This is a thing. I struggle a little bit with the blueprint. As much as I really love that Brian Johnson puts all of his data out there, the idea of taking 75 new things at one time and not building on top to have any understanding.
- [37:21]
B
What do you need?
- [37:22]
A
What is working? Where is it coming from? Oh, I had a side effect from something, but I have no way to.
- [37:28]
B
Break it apart because I'm on 45.
- [37:30]
A
Things at one time and the product literally is all of it in a bag. You know, like, so the, like what you went through and whether or not someone has something that's kind of acute or they transition into longevity maintenance, it is an evolving process. And you know, for me, part of our mission is going to be driving down the costs of these things. The interaction, the intersection of capitalism and health is like a really kind of fucked up space. These products are things that you should Be taking for decades, yet they're priced, optimizing for three months at a time. Three months at a time. And it boggles my mind. I remember being on a product for five years and reaching out and being like, hey, can I just get a discount? And they were like, no. And I was like, cool, I'm just gonna stop. It's just too much. And so this is what I mean that's so exciting about the SEPCO mission for me is that there's problems at every step of the journey. In a market that 74% of Americans participate in and take a supplement. The love we're seeing from our users, the love that we're getting from even the slices we've successfully taken is just one step in a very long journey. And that part that managing. Okay, now I'm on a lot, maybe I should scale them back. See where I'm at there? Like when we get that right, like we're in like a dream state.
- [38:54]
B
I will say a supplement, a new supplement that I'm taking that I'm really excited about especially because I actually went to the launch of their supplement is im8.
- [39:05]
A
I was just gonna say, you know, I shit on the too many things at one time. But my doctor friends are saying that the im8 is really well researched and like it is a top scoring product on our platform.
- [39:17]
B
So where I saw IMA really helping me is in nervous system regulation for me. And the only reason why I know that is because once I started taking it, my sleep scores shot through the roof.
- [39:32]
A
Wow.
- [39:32]
B
Right? And look, I mean I'm not wearing my whoop right now because I got the new whoop and I unfortunately lost my battery in Europe. So. But as you can see, I have my WHOOP band tan line but I pay very close attention to my sleeves and sleep is super duper, duper important to me. So when I saw that, when I saw that my slow wave and REM sleep started to increase and my HRV actually started going up, that was like, I was like, oh shit. Like this is. And I had not introduced anything else, you know, so I think that that product is. It is. There are a lot of things in there. And I brought it up because you had said, you know, too many things at one time. I do think that there are some people that are doing it really, really well and they've thought through, you know, being NSF certified for sport also.
- [40:23]
A
Big deal, big deal. Big, big filter on our platform. You know, for the athletes it's absolutely critical and then it just creates a Standard bar. You know, if you're NSF certified for sport, your, your trust score rating is, is usually quite high.
- [40:36]
B
Yeah.
- [40:37]
A
Because it's hard to be. I think with the iM8 too, it's like, you know, it's one of those ones where I do if people successfully take powders, you know, like something like creatine. I feel like the fact that creatine can't be like people's modality, people's other struggle in this space is just do they take them? Right. 50% of 30 to 50% of bottles go unfinished. Right.
- [40:58]
B
Just forget it.
- [40:59]
A
Yeah. And so like if that delivery format is the best way to get those nutrients into you and they. I'm pretty sure Ima I'd have to double check. But like they're really good about not having proprietary blends with unknown amounts in. That's the thing with some of these products have so much. They're like, oh, proprietary blend. And all of a sudden they have a bunch of things that you might be taking but you don't actually know how much is in them. And that to me is a real turn off. And so I'm pretty sure that they avoid that, which is really helpful.
- [41:27]
B
Yeah. And by the way, nothing against the other super famous powders, but the shit tastes really good too.
- [41:34]
A
That's great. As I said, the mechanism in which you are going to successfully take it is so important. I got one you should check out that I started recently. Nella. It is by Fit Bionomics. So they're studying the gut microbiome of like super endurance athletes, high performers. And they're noticing that they have these strains that are very uncommon in anyone else and they're delivering it in a probiotic. And Nella specifically, I remember I was on a call with the founder and he was talking about HRV going up and I had gotten a notification that morning that my HRV baseline had gone up and I was like, I didn't even know that it was from that. That was an expected benefit of this thing.
- [42:20]
B
Oh, that's cool.
- [42:21]
A
So it's really. They have a Vnella one too, which is about lactic acid breakdown that only the like extreme endurance athletes have in their gut microbiome, you know.
- [42:31]
B
So I've been an athlete for a long time and I'm like, you know, sort of, I don't want to say winding down my competitive athletic journey, but I'm certainly like, it's not like I don't need to be competing all the time like I used to, but I will Say that. I know no athletes that like have competed in things that don't have gut issues.
- [42:55]
A
Well, the thing I was going to ask you that's really important is have you gotten your calcium scan for your heart?
- [42:59]
B
I have, knock on wood. Thank God. It was about two years ago, so I probably am due for another, but I had zero calcium.
- [43:05]
A
Yeah, there you go. Some of the endurance athletes don't know this, but they can be building up a lot of heart plaque. It's like something in the hyper, like pretty much the extreme endurance people. And you come across someone that dies of a heart attack in their 50s and they were the healthiest person I know. How is this possible? And so I'm just like a big proponent of everyone getting a clearly or heart flow scan. Like I did it at 30, but do it now. Get that baseline. Because if you've got that soft plaque and you're not, you know, aggressively treating it, you're. You're taking time bomb.
- [43:38]
B
Totally. You know, and I also. So I have a really great guy coming on the podcast after you today and one of the questions that I want to ask him because he's an athlete, but he's also a coach, trainer. Something that I've kind of come to the conclusion of is that the way I have been training and the way a lot of my friends have been training. Right. Is not. It's a new thing in the last, I'd say 20 years. People that train like that are traditionally, for decades, professional athletes. That's what they do for their work.
- [44:16]
A
You know what I mean?
- [44:17]
B
Like they are professional athletes. That is their work. Training that hard, that intense. That's what they do. And now it's become more of a mainstream thing to train till you die. Train til you hit the floor and you can't breathe, you throw up, whatever it is, you know what I mean? You're done. You go to the bone. But you also have work on top of that. It's not your work. So now you're beating your body up like a professional athlete and you have the stress of work on top of that and you're, you know, potentially married with kids. Like I just. The way my body has been responding in the last year or so, like things are not like falling apart, but certainly not like, like optimized on in, in fifth gear.
- [45:04]
A
Sure.
- [45:05]
B
You know, like I have felt things kind of coming off the hinges a little bit.
- [45:09]
A
Yeah.
- [45:10]
B
And not just like physically. Just like with my, my blood biomarkers have. Have been a little bit all over the place. Like I don't think it is healthy to train that way.
- [45:26]
A
I love that you say that. I mean, I think that for me, so I'm a tough case, right? Like I've gotten generally in health but muscle building is still very difficult for me. I get injured pretty easily. I think I get inflammation like tendonitis and things quite quickly. And so I have to find a training that lets me train without doing too much. And also now that I'm a dad, the amount of time I actually have to dedicate time wise to my health is like, I would say it's like three times a week, three to four times a week, 60 minutes, 90 minutes max. But you go out and you watch some of the fitness influencers and wellness people and even the doctors and you're like. And they're spending like they're not biohackers, they're biomaxers. They're spending hours and hours on this. Like you are a professional athlete or it's like your job. And I feel like there's a gap a bit in truly managing a finite amount of time and a finite amount of effort and maybe even a finite amount of motivation in order to build habits that are going to work for people. And I think it's going to change as you age too. And I think, you know, for me I'm having to readapt. I was in probably the best shape I've been. I was doing like legree Pilates, you know, three, four times a week and a little bit of lifting and stuff before the baby came because I was like, I know it's gonna go off the rails when the baby came. And I don't know, between that year of first year of parenting, we lost our house in Palisades fire. My ability to get back into a routine that works for me has been like a struggle. Right. And so I think you're right. It's like what is going to work as people age? How hard should they be pushing themselves? What are our goals? You know, how much is vanity looks? How much is truly longevity? Like my big thing is I gotta be able to pick up my kid and be able to be able to keep pace with them and be around and be strong enough to kind of have a 99 percentile size boy growing up and needing to be lifted up and so that like adapting to that and finding something that works for people, especially as we age, it's tough.
- [47:36]
B
I think it has most people that get into the world, specifically the fitness world.
- [47:43]
A
Yeah.
- [47:46]
B
98.9% are vanity. Right. You Want to look better, right? And that's okay. There's like, there's nothing wrong with that.
- [47:54]
A
I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. Yeah.
- [47:56]
B
Like, and I, like, I actually think.
- [47:57]
A
It'S, it's one again, what's finding you the loop, the motivation loop to do this work, right? Like, and if vanity is a drive and that's got you going and that's what gets you to show up, Fucking you're showing up. It's great. You're out of the game.
- [48:10]
B
What I have now concluded, though, is that that's great, Work out, eat well, like, be in great shape, be ripped, be shredded. Awesome. But when you stack on the stress of work and the stress of, like, family life, right, Your nervous system is just shot. Your nervous system is just shot. It just is shot. It's just what it is, right? And when your nervous system shot, it impacts everything, literally. It impacts mental, physical, spiritual, the whole thing, right? When you're not giving your nervous system an opportunity to regulate, you are going to be in a world of trouble. And it's going to impact your health in a real way, right? Like, you might think running 100 miles is, like, healthy when you, oh, someone can run 100 miles. Oh, my God, that guy's killing it. But at the end of the day, like, like, it's just not. Yeah, it's just not. And, and, and I'm not taking away anything from ultra runners and the whole ultra craze that's happening. Like, by all means, go for it. It's great. But I will say that, like, I just hosted a men's retreat.
- [49:17]
A
She's gonna go there. It's so funny you said that.
- [49:19]
B
I just hosted this men's retreat in, in June. That was. It's, it's. It's the close to the closest to perfect thing I've ever done in my life. Closest to perfect thing I've ever done in my life. I would not have changed a single thing. Nobody worked out. 30 guys, four days on my property.
- [49:39]
A
Wow.
- [49:41]
B
It was the most powerful, like, most enriching experience. And what I, what I kind of concluded from that experience of what it was, was it was a, like, surge into central nervous system, autonomic nervous system regulation. That is exactly what it was. And everybody walked away from that thing feeling like, holy shit. And we just don't do it. We don't do it enough. Right? You can take all the supplements in the world. You can eat the healthiest food in the world. You could work out five Days a week you could have, you know, great cardiovascular ability. But, like, if you're not taking care of that cns, you are going to butt up against shit.
- [50:33]
A
I mean, look, the thing that I was about to say as you brought up your retreat was I do. I'm in a men's group that meets every week. We're doing it for two hours every Monday night, and we've just moved it back to 90 minutes. And I do executive coaching. And since the fires, we've been in weekly couples counseling just to kind of navigate that. That space. But I 100% agree with you. The men's group particularly, and just focusing on what is the emotion most present right now and where is it showing up in your body?
- [51:02]
B
Are you doing Everyman? Is that the.
- [51:04]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's an everyman that's like core is every man. And it's evolved a bit from there. It's not like we don't do it as strict as we did before. But yes, that was the core of everything we were doing. And I remember my first experiences. I mean, one, they're like extremely psychedelic experiences. Just visualizing where your own emotions are in your body. And it's like surreal when someone guides you through the journey, like what your experience can be. And it's also incredible the release that you can feel by just seeing it and observing where it is showing up and what it wants and like almost interacting and talking to it. And then all of a sudden there's this nervous system drop. And like, you know, you may not have worked through the issues and stuff because you're really not focused on solutions. You're really focused on like giving presence to the emotions. But it is some very powerful work. I'm glad you're hosting retreats because I also find the format is very hard to scale. Like, Everyman has a good format that has grown a bit, but people find a men's group and get involved. It's a hard process to get in. We've been in almost the same group of guys with some changes for they've been doing for six plus years. And then the other side of it is not just doing it for having yourself doing recognize it, but being able to hold space for other people. And that is an art and that is a gift to give and it is powerful. And I walked two people through an experience in group, not this week, the week before. And all week they were just in a completely different place and thanking me for giving them that journey. And I'd been out for a bit because of the fires and had stepped back in with a couple new tricks and of how to kind of guide them through things. And it is a beautiful thing. And I agree with you 100%. If you are not some people, I think the daily meditation thing is just, like, it might not be for them, might not work. This reset on a weekly basis for me gives me a week's worth of central nervous system reset, for sure.
- [53:04]
B
I'm so happy that you mentioned that because. And this is me just being vulnerable and transparent. I joined a men's group that meets on Tuesday nights, and they use that Everyman as a sort of foundation. And I just found it to. For me, I found it to be. Now, it might be the people, although I love all the guys, but, like, I found it to be way too restrictive for me. Yeah, it's very rigid not being able to, like. Like, you cannot share any advice that you could offer. Potentially another guy who's just sitting next to you sharing about an experience that he's struggling with. Like, you cannot say, oh, well, let me. You know, let me share about what, you know, you can't. You have to speak in eyes. You.
- [53:58]
A
You know, like, have the story in it.
- [54:00]
B
Like, the sitting for 10, 15, maybe 20 minutes in silence before somebody says something. Like, for me, I was just like, I don't know if I'm getting anything. Sure. You know, And. And. And, like, no one in the group has really led anybody through an experience about, like, the question has been asked, like, where are you feeling that in your body? Yeah, but I'm so happy you brought it up because maybe because I was ready to just call it quits on it, honestly. But maybe I've just, like, maybe I'm setting my own expectation for what it should be, because I want it to be a little bit more fluid. I want it to be a little bit more conversational. And maybe that's like, me trying to control the thing, which unfortunately, I'm not.
- [54:50]
A
Like, no, I hear you. Look, Dan Doughty, I think, was one of the Everyman founders, and we did a. We had invited him into the group to help us work on our skills and stuff. And one of his first lines was, fuck the rules. And it was the guy who foundationally built a bunch of the rules and our coaches that have come in. Basically, we use the Everyman kind of as a reset. If we are off the rails or the format's not working or group's losing its container, we kind of can revert. But I work with this executive coach and men's Group leader John o', Connor, who just has come in and just. It's like just freaking taking me on journeys. And he has totally different techniques. And so now we're a mix of a lot of different techniques that come in that kind of reset foundationally if you need to, to the Everyman container. But we've evolved it and, like, I wouldn't be afraid to evolve it. I would just make sure, you know, people can get really wrapped up in story. And there's a couple things that you really need to guide people away from and too solutions focused. But last week, honestly, we were almost in. It was a small group. There was only a couple of us there, and we were just almost in all solutions mode. For someone who was going through a relationship issue and they just needed to hear our perspective and they needed a reframing and they needed to do it from the outside, not just from the inside. And so I think we are very respectful of the original container, yet we deeply push it into new territory. Because similar to you, I think the group, we just kind of got bored of it after a while. And so there's a couple good coaches I could put you in touch with, too.
- [56:28]
B
I would love that. Because I think that I've kind of, you know, and it's rare that I give up on something, but I think it's, you know, I kind of. I've kind of thrown in the towel on it, and it takes a lot for me to do that. I just don't look forward to it.
- [56:42]
A
Yeah, no. I think if that happens and you can feel when the group. We've gone through that evolution where you can tell that we're not looking forward.
- [56:49]
B
To it, I just don't look forward to it. Like, I want to not go.
- [56:52]
A
Yeah.
- [56:53]
B
You know, and my wife was like, so then why are you doing it.
- [56:55]
A
And why are you doing it? Exactly.
- [56:56]
B
And I was like, yeah, yeah. But before we end here, I want to ask you about some habits that you've stuck to for a period of time that have been impactful in your life, whether they're part of a morning routine, an evening routine, things that you do throughout the day, potentially to keep you organized. Tools. I'd love you to share some of those.
- [57:19]
A
Yeah, look, I mean, when I thought about it, I really did think about the weekly stuff a little bit more. I was going to bring up men's group. I was going to bring up executive coaching and now the couples counseling, because I found it through the fires. It's been so important on the daily. It's like, you know, I do have my supplements and medications broken into my morning without food kind of fasted start, you know, with food, lunch and before bed. I, you know, I do have to. If I don't force myself into a workout I do not really have unless I start really nailing it with a class or I have a personal trainer. My motivation just tends to kind of trail off and I tend to let work come in first thing in the morning and so I have to stick to a pretty regimented. You are going to this class booked out multiple week in advance. Lagree Pilates did really well for me in terms of the ratio of effort to injury. Like I don't get injured, my core gets strong. Like that one works really well. And then personal trainer for strength and kind of like the hit type stuff. And then other than that, the rituals that are great for me is we do a daily standup with our team and work wise, I just really love being able to check in with everybody across the business in kind of a synchronous and lightweight environment. We use an app called Roam instead of Zoom that lets me see where everybody is if they're in their office doing work, if they're on a Zoom, if they're in a meeting room with other people and you can just kind of tap on it and knock on the door to come join. And so I feel like I'm in the room with people, which I'd say in the work from home era, man, my old routine was like, wake up first thing, go to the gym with my trainer, walk everywhere in New York, which is great. But dad, life is like a fucking different game. And I'm still trying to figure it out, to be perfectly honest, like coming around and telling you that I have. And it's funny you have your podcast listeners listening to these routines of success. I could go back to the GroupMe era and tell you that my routine was drinking 10 drinks out at events all night long and then waking up on five hours of sleep and getting to work and doing that for a year. And that was successful. Was it sustainable much longer? I don't think so, but I feel like I've gone through almost every different iteration of what the habits can be and I've had success in different forms through those things. But the commitment to Health After GroupMe, I was like, this wasn't sustainable and hangovers are impossible. I stopped drinking in 2017. That has been a real game changer for me. I just would have no ability to do it. And for me, it's spending a lot of time with my kid. You know, I'd take him in the mornings before it would take him when he was on the west coast, waking up at 6:30 and I would take him from 6:30 to 8, work out at 8, kind of start my day at 9:30 and then I kind of finish quicker. I finish it's like 6ish these days from like the core work and spend time with them before bed. And if I need to catch up on something at night, I will. I'll tell you, the energy levels at night are not what they used to be during first year of kid. I'm getting them back a little bit but falling asleep in the baby's room after you put them down is.
- [60:40]
B
I know, I know all about that man. I know all about that.
- [60:44]
A
And I kind of want people to hear that their life situation is going to create only a certain amount of bandwidth for their habits and that trend in the direction of health and longevity and adapt to where you are, man. In my 20s I could do a lot more shit to my body and be okay the next day than I can do now. It's like I like I'm floored that we would, you know, the group me era was like go out drinking with the product, text each other about where, what bars and stuff we were going to and then come in the morning hungover and eat bacon, egg and cheeses and get going, you know, like it's, it comes in every form. But I do feel that this is a sustainable form and like the, at least what I felt like I had before Baby came and I will be rebuilding to a sustainable form and so yeah, I mean that's my, my kind of thoughts on it, brother.
- [61:42]
B
What a great conversation man. I, I appreciate you coming. I appreciate you, I appreciate what you've done putting a platform out there for people to be able to really sort of lift up the hood and kind of see what's in there and see like if what they're taking is actually efficacious and real. And it's important, you know, like our bodies, you know, they are our temple and things do have an impact, right? Like whether you feel it or not, like your. Anything that you are absorbing into your body is going to have some sort of an outcome, right. And you want that outcome to be awesome whether you feel it or not. Right. And so I love the platform. Where can people find supco? Where can they follow along your journey?
- [62:27]
A
Yeah, sure. Suppp CO is the site and you can check out my stack at Supco, Steve. And then I have an OG handle on Instagram and X now. But if I'm smart on those platforms, if you want to follow me along and I'm excited to get your stack on the platform, I got to see what you're taking. Post the link. When we post this, we're going to post your stack.
- [62:52]
B
All right. I love it, dude. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here.
- [62:55]
A
Yeah, it was great.
- [62:56]
B
Another good one in the books, fam. Thank you guys for tuning in. Thank you for listening. This was a really interesting one. That conversation flowed like the Nile. It was just easy and smooth, and I feel like there's a lot of value there. A lot of value. We covered a lot of things. So do me a favor. The rent I ask you to pay for listening to this podcast is to pass it off to a friend, pass it off to a friend, pass it off to a family member, post about it on social media. This was a good one, and it should be out there because this kind of content is the stuff that's valuable as opposed to a lot of the stuff that we consume, which is, well, let's just call it not valuable. Anyways, y', all, I appreciate you. I love you. 5 star rating. Give us a review. Subscribe to the podcast really helps us grow. Have a wonderful day, a wonderful weekend. Until the next one, y'.
- [63:54]
A
All, Peace.
- [63:56]
B
Facebook.