Matt Jones (2:09)

And he liked your picture.

Drew Franklin (2:10)

I'm gonna cry.

Matt Jones (2:11)

Dude. That's a big deal. It's like when I'm back on the pacers sat on Jerry Lawler's lap in Memphis. He was so. He was so excited. Yes.

Drew Franklin (2:21)

Reggie's my goat forever.

Matt Jones (2:23)

He let Jerry pet his hair. It was beautiful. It was a. It was a beau. Beautiful moment. Okay, so yesterday I was at the University of Kentucky. I was able to interview Mark Pope for over the course of about an hour. We're going to play that interview now from now to the end of the hour and then all of the second hour. It's great stuff. Go ahead, enjoy it. Matt Jones and Mark Pope. And our conversation starts right now, all right here with Mark Pope. This is exciting for me. It's our first chance to really sit down and have a longer conversation because you've been on a whirlwind since you got hired. Year one. Mark, thank you for coming on ksr.

Mark Pope (3:00)

I'm so happy, man. Come on.

Matt Jones (3:02)

You ready to rock? All right, well, let's start with this. Last time we talked was around this time one year ago. How has year one been? Better, Worse? Different than you expected? How would you sort of judge your first year at Kentucky?

Mark Pope (3:19)

Geez, I don't. It's so hard to say. I mean, it's so much. Right? It is. I mean, I say this all the time. It's the greatest job in the world, and it's in the greatest community and the best fan base, and I get to work with the best administration, and I love this staff so much. And this season, I got to work with the greatest kids ever, and it just is nonstop. It's like it's every day. And.

Matt Jones (3:51)

Do you like that? You like that it's every day?

Mark Pope (3:53)

I love it. I mean, it's part of what makes it the best job ever. And so, I mean, it's. It's. There's so much. Actually, I was talking about this with Leanne yesterday. Just like, it's hard to. It's hard to. Everything comes so fast, and there's so many incredible, incredible, meaningful moments that you kind of think about. You want to find a break in it. So you're like, well, if you just think about. To like to two months ago, and then trace just the last two months, but then you cut out something right before that point that was monumental. Right? And so it's. I love it. I love being here, and I love that we get to have this opportunity. I love. There's just not enough time. That's the thing that I feel over and over. There's just not enough time. We need more time. But the whole thing's exhilarating, and it's wonderful. And we have very clear cut mission and a job to do that we haven't even come close to completing. And so we're just hungry, chasing every day and enjoying every minute along the way.

Matt Jones (5:00)

I want to kind of go back to last year, then talk about next year.

Mark Pope (5:03)

I mean, I think about last year when we were, when we sat down and talked.

Matt Jones (5:06)

Yeah.

Mark Pope (5:07)

Everything we didn't know, like everything was a hypothetical.

Matt Jones (5:11)

Yeah. And we, when I talked to you there, I think I said to you in that conversation where you and I were just sitting in your office and I said, this is going to be interesting for Kentucky fans because they don't.

Mark Pope (5:19)

Know any of these guys.

Matt Jones (5:20)

You're going to have a team where they don't know any. And I do remember wondering, everybody loves Mark, but how are they going to feel about these guys? They don't know. And it ended up becoming one of the more beloved teams that I can remember. You knew the guys, but I was surprised how much people just embraced that group. Could you, could they feel it?

Mark Pope (5:38)

Yeah, our guys could for sure. And I think as much as I was happy about that, I was happy that our guys didn't miss it. Because the craziest thing is, and this is almost incomprehensible to me, you could actually come here for a year as a player and miss it. Like you could miss the whole thing if you came here. We talk to our recruits about this all the time. If you came here and you were just only dialed into yourself, you could actually miss the great uniqueness and like the monstrosity that this experience can be. You could actually miss the whole thing. Like you might take it in in a minute here and a minute there in a crowd here and whatever, but you could miss it. And I felt like our guys, I felt like one of the reasons why there was such a great relationship between BBN and our players was because our players also were really engaged in growing the relationship. Like they were. Meant something to them from our guys coming in. You know, our guys logged almost 400 hours of community service, which is just a very separate little standalone niche. But their interest in like, in embracing the magnitude of this opportunity was pretty special.

Matt Jones (6:53)

I thought part of it for the fans was the fact that these, they seem to really appreciate the moment to be here. The fact that they had played at schools like Drexel and Dayton and all that made it to where I felt like they were as grateful as the fans want them to be grateful. Does that make sense? And I think they love that.

Mark Pope (7:12)

Yeah. And I think that's what I'm saying about not missing it. You know, I was, I was at. Just yesterday, I was in Brooklyn with. No, no, in the Bronx, sorry. With Mo Di Abate's mom. And you think about Mo, he's coming from Alabama. Alabama was in a Final Four, and then Elite 8. It's a pretty good program. And just being. We actually walked and he came down and met us outside the building. We walked in and security was right there. And the kind of lead security guard was losing his mind. He's like. He's like Coach Pope. He's like, I'm a diehard Kentucky, you know, the whole thing. And. And then he knew. He knew Mo, but he didn't know about the change. And so I was like, no, you're gonna be watching Mo. We're coming here to play Michigan State this year. And he was like, wait, what?

Matt Jones (8:00)

Yeah.

Mark Pope (8:01)

And. And then spending, you know, spending some time with Mo's family. They get it, too. And it's not just the guys that were coming from a mid major. I mean, he's coming from a. From a really good program, but is already so ingrained in him how different this is at Kentucky than anywhere else. And he's going to come here. He's a beautiful man. He's a beautiful human being, but he's going to come here and he's not going to miss it either. Like, he's going to take it all in, too. And so I think we have the makings of another group. Hopefully it's a staple for us forever, of guys that really understand what this is.

Matt Jones (8:36)

Yeah, this is going to be pretty. Well, it'd be a little bit of a different group, but let's get to that in a second. Before I leave. Last year, I want to go back to. In Milwaukee, you beat Troy in the first round, your. Your first NCAA tournament win. And I, I really. There's certain things I always am going to remember when my career is over, and I'm going to remember watching you when that game was over, your embrace of your wife, your embrace of your. Your family. And then also the same thing after the Illinois game. Those. It felt like. And maybe it'll feel like this for you in all the future games, tournament games you win, but it felt like that was a moment you really wanted to soak in. Am I right about that?

Mark Pope (9:14)

Yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of the same thing we started out talking about was just like everything comes so fast that you could miss all the moments.

Matt Jones (9:23)

Yeah.

Mark Pope (9:24)

And all of us are driving so hard, and it's so relentless that you could miss the moments. And so, you know, I didn't want to miss it with my guys. I didn't want to miss it with my family. I didn't want to miss with the fans. You know, I. It's just too good to miss. And so you only get a few seconds, but taking those few seconds, really.

Matt Jones (9:42)

Yeah, that was. It was a. That was a really cool moment, just even for me to be a part of. All right, so when you came here, we were all trying to figure out what is Mark Pope basketball. Now we have a year of it, and I'll just take on a personal level, some things that surprised me maybe were a little different and get your take. I watched you at byu, felt like you guys shot a zillion threes, ended up not shooting as many as maybe we would have thought. Why do you think that was?

Mark Pope (10:10)

Poor coaching?

Matt Jones (10:11)

Well, I think you won plenty, but.

Mark Pope (10:13)

I was really disappointed with that this year. It still eats me a little bit. I'm like, oh, I just couldn't. We couldn't quite get there. I was really proud of the product our guys put on the floor last year. And I thought. With all things considered, I thought I was really proud of it. And we have so much room to grow. Like, we have so much more to do. Like, we left so much on the table that we weren't quite the team that I envision us being when we're great.

Matt Jones (10:43)

A lot of that was injuries, though, right?

Mark Pope (10:45)

Part of it. Injury, part of it. Coaching, part of it. All the things, part of it. Newness, part of it. You know, part of it. Roster construction part. It was all little pieces of it. And like I said, I'm super proud of what the guys did. I think it's incredible. It was a really amazing journey. But, you know, go to that, and you're like, man, we weren't even close to what we're supposed to be, like, what we're aiming to be. And I think that gives you great hope for what we can actually be.

Matt Jones (11:10)

I mean, you had. Look, you lose Kerr right at the beginning of the year. Jackson, Robinson's hurt on and off. Lamont Butler's hurt on and off. You, I mean, Andrew Carr's hurt on and off. I mean, you all had to deal with a lot of stuff. You had guys playing roles they probably didn't think they were going to play immediately, but you just kept fighting. And I felt like, outside of. I thought Alabama was a tough matchup for you. For you all. But besides that, I felt like you were matched up, and in all those games, you had to feel good about it.

Mark Pope (11:38)

Yeah. You know how I know that Alabama was a tough matchup? Because I was just on the road this weekend and went and sat down and Nate Oates came and sat by me. He was so happy. He was so happy to talk to me. He was like my best friend in the whole world. That's what happens when you go03. Ah, but.

Matt Jones (11:52)

But that was. I think it was just tough when. With the rosters you had to go in those games.

Mark Pope (11:56)

It was complicated. But, you know, it's. It's. Yeah, that's all part of it. It's all built into it. You know, we think we have some answers for when. When some things go wrong this coming season, like, you learn and you grow and you get better. Right. And. And that's what we're gonna do. With all that said, you know, we had, you know, we talked about all the continuity issues and everything else, but, you know, I do. I do think we learned a lot last year. I think we grew a lot last year as a staff. I think we grew as a team. But dealing with the changes, what we also learned was just how massively important our guys get to know each other and love each other and trying. You know, as a basketball player, you're. The only reason you're here is because you're completely obsessed with your own personal development and growth. You can't get to Kentucky without being, like, crazy, selfishly obsessed with yourself and how you grow, because that's what it demands, like this personal sacrifice to get her so huge. And so we're not living in La La land where guys are going to completely divorce themselves from their own ambitions. But what we're trying to do is build a place where you're going to go achieve your own ambitions by becoming the greatest teammate ever and loving your guys more than you can possibly imagine. Because this actually is by definition here and in the NBA, it is a team sport and it's about a team. And I thought that was what helped, you know, our guys being so good at doing that last year was what helped us survive all the stuff that kind of went into the season.

Matt Jones (13:34)

All right, some basketball nerd stuff a little bit. You were very big on that. Fans wondered about the first substitute substitution pattern. A lot of games where we go out, we get a lead, then you'd make a sub and people would go, ah, what's he doing? What's your philosophy on that? On that early in the first and second half, bringing in some subs. Why do you do that?

Mark Pope (13:55)

Well, in the games where I brought in substitutions and it went bad, it was just bad substitution. Right, okay. But sometimes, you know, when you're thinking about the whole nature of the game, so these are thoughts that go into it and it's pretty much artistic, you lose the science of it really quick because there's such a small sample size. But. But it's, you know, a couple things going. So when we thought about our roster alignment, about guys that actually function well together, or who we could have on the court, who we felt, you know, sometimes there's a young guy that you're trying to put on the court where you need to have them kind of protected.

Matt Jones (14:35)

Right.

Mark Pope (14:35)

And so sometimes it's hard to take a bunch of young guys or less experienced guys and put them on the court at the same time. And so sometimes you have to grab someone out of the lineup early to get someone in so that you can start the rotation early so you don't have a bunch of guys fatiguing all at the same time and then you're doing more wholesale. Or maybe a guy, when he's fresh, he's actually able to be more supportive than when he's. So you think about things like that. You think about running through the roster to kind of see who's got a good vibe that night because there's game to game differentiation.

Matt Jones (15:03)

You think there are vibes game to game for people?

Mark Pope (15:05)

I do, I think 100%. And then the other thing you're trying to explore is matchups, because the vibe sometimes is really determined by the matchup about, like, what does it look like? And sometimes you're thinking, man, I could really function smaller in this game, maybe, maybe I could get to smaller in this game against a particular lineup. And so you're reactive to those things sometimes. Sometimes it's just a matter of like, hey, I'm going to take the hit now so I can be more fresh in the second half, which was really effective for us this year.

Matt Jones (15:33)

You did have a lot of games where it felt like at the end you guys had some energy that the other, the other team didn't in just looking at your roster for next year. And granted, I have not seen these guys play nearly as much as you have most of them, but it does look to me, as an outsider like you intently went to get more athletic. Was that true?

Mark Pope (15:53)

Yeah, I think, I think that we have positionally in some positions, I think we're way More athletic and I think positionally in some places we're way more physical and I think both those things matter.

Matt Jones (16:04)

Was that a going through the SEC and seeing I always say about the sec, especially last year, even the worst teams in the SEC had great athletes. Was it like, okay, I got to ramp the athleticism up a little bit?

Mark Pope (16:16)

Yeah, I think it was. It's again, it's always like a stew of ideas. Right. One of the things that is is functional for us is like positioning. If you could, you know, like a, like a low hanging fruit. Example would be just the ability to switch one through four defensively or one through five defensively. So can you get more, either more size or more quickness or more of a steal percentage in your backcourt and can you get, you know, a four, for example, that's more comfortable or actually could be a dominant defensive figure against any matchup. Right. So you're kind of thinking about a bunch of different pieces, man, could we fit together? And you're not going to have your whole roster be able to do that, but can we put together a lineup where that's super functional and how do we add pieces, do that and you know, like you do that a thousand different models of your roster, how it works together in terms of how you want to scheme different things on the floor, as well as just kind of looking individually at ones 2, 3 source fives and standalones about how they function.

Matt Jones (17:18)

So I see again, as an outsider with your system that to me watching year one, the two positions that seem like to me are the most important for you are the point guard and the big, especially the big that's at the top with Amari. Amari is a very unique ability. So you have, I assume Brandon Garrison is what you're thinking at that role. He had some great moments, also had some inconsistent moments. I remember when you all lost him, you saying something to him like, all right, this off season, you know, here you go. Are you think Brandon's ready to take that step up? Because it'll be big shoes to fill with Amari?

Mark Pope (17:54)

Yeah. Well, first, you know, traditionally in my roster, probably for most of my, you know, most of my tenure as a head coach, it's probably been the four that's been a more unique piece. We slid into this five role kind of necessity last year and to be honest with you, a personnel group I had before I got to Kentucky kind of led me to the five a little bit. It kind of changes, but a lot of time it's been a four where I'm playing a four. That's an elite level ball handler, decision maker, where. Where it gives us some space and we can protect a five a little bit. So those two pieces are interchangeable. All of that leading to Brandon Garrison. So Brandon Garrison showed me some signs in the last month and certainly this summer where he is just like he is growing up, man. And it's so cool to see. It's the best thing to see as a coach. But he's talking about what he wants to be. It's no longer kind of what he is and who he is and how he acts, but it's what he wants to become. You know, he's done this publicly where he's talked about Amar, Amari, that he was. That BG was blessed to have this big brother, Amari, that kind of mentored him and took care of him. He said that on our show and that he kind of wants to be that guy. And it's a change now when you start to have guys talk about what they would like to become, then you're like, oh, we got something here. And he's definitely there, man. So much of his space is that. And we need him to be great next year. It's going to be really important because he's. He's one of the few guys that are coming back with a ton of experience and he's going to teach everybody on the roster.

Matt Jones (19:35)

Jalen Lowe, I watched play a couple times, but I watched him a lot when they played Louisville and I remember thinking, boy, this guy's got some talent. He's got some scoot. He can get by people, which is something I thought sometimes we had a hard time doing last year, beating people off the dribble. He's also, though, he can be all over the place. How do you take that talent, which is immense, and then make it work in a system like yours?

Mark Pope (20:01)

So Superfon's dad on him and you've probably seen this, but so. And it's. I still haven't found a right way to say this in short words, so give me a minute here. So Jalen Lowe was elite level in terms of the raw stats, points, assists. Everything else he did on the game was really good, but he wasn't a super efficient player last year. Yeah, part of it was because he had to do a lot. It's no takeaway from Pitt. Pitt's a great program. They do a great job. It was just the situation he was in.

Matt Jones (20:28)

In. Yeah.

Mark Pope (20:28)

And so. So one of the things he did, he was in the 90th percentile in the country in the top 10% of taking the highest percentage of shots that were are in the. In the bottom 20% of shot quality. Oh, that's a, that's a long analytical way of saying he took bad shots. He took re. He made the game so hard or the game that was was delivered him was so harder. However that happened, like he was taking some of the. Trying to make the hardest plays in the basketball and make them over and over and over again. Not incredibly dissimilar in some ways from Lamont Butler. So Lamont Butler's shot quality usage wasn't quite a low shot bottom 20%. Shot quality usage wasn't quite as significant when he came, but it was still that a little bit of that trend. He had never been 48% from 2. He'd never been really above 33% from 3. He comes here, he shoots 39.1% from 3 on the season, suffering half the season with a debilitating shoulder injury and was at 56% from 2, an 8 percentage point jump in a super senior. And so much of that was because he was humble enough and willing enough to like let me rethink this game a little bit. So I don't spend all my time trying to get better at making possible shots, but I actually manipulate this game and work on off to earn myself. Great stuff. So now instead of being in the top 10% of taking of usage of bottom 20% shot quality shots, now I'm in like the top 10% of usage of like 20 to 80% quality shots. Right. And that shift without improving your raw skill set can transform your entire game. And so what we love is I love seeing guys where I'm like wow. With a little bit of study and a little bit of humility and curiosity, like we can transform your.

Matt Jones (22:24)

So that's a really interesting crazy because I was going to ask you.

Mark Pope (22:27)

That's a Moneyball game.

Matt Jones (22:28)

When the season is over, you have this porridge of players to choose from. They're all over the place. And you could choose, especially at Kentucky, you could choose a lot of them. You got a lot of choices. How do you sit there and say Cam Williams at Tulane, that's the kid I want. Like how do you even, how do you come to the point of saying that? Are you looking for things like that little inefficiencies you can take advantage of?

Mark Pope (22:54)

Yes. Like so you're always asking yourself what are you good at coaching? Like what part of coaching are you good at? Right. And it changes. So it Changes based on a guy's talent and based on his. But like, it's, it's a, it's very much all sliding scales. Like, you have 100 sliding scales, but you kind of like, okay, this is, this is what happened. Now, Jalen Lowe had a terrific season last year. I mean, put up really incredible numbers. So that's, that was the number one reason why it came on our radar. But as you dig deeper into it, you're like, oh, you know what? Like, we could actually take credit for him getting way better when it's really not. It's really not that complicated. And, and when you, when you think about Cam, I mean, Cam was pretty easy for us. Yeah, I think about that three kind of four spot guy that can really shoot it, really stretch the floor.

Matt Jones (23:41)

But when you say it's easy for you, like, I remember when he committed, I had somebody close to you today. Here's the case for him, here's why he's awesome. But if I hadn't talked to that person, I would have seen the stats and gone. That's odd to me. So how is it it comes to you to go, this is the dude?

Mark Pope (23:57)

Well, it's, it's a little bit like, so. Because we know what fits in our system. We know what works, you know, to me, just to give you, like it was, you know, and things don't always work out the way that you think they're going to. Right. But when we signed Ansley Almanor.

Matt Jones (24:15)

Yeah, same thing.

Mark Pope (24:16)

There was a lot of kind of question. And I was just, guys, just wait. Just wait and see. And now I didn't, I wasn't saying that he was going to have the greatest shooting season in the history of Kentucky basketball. That sounds. But what I was saying is like, no, you don't understand the way he fits into our system, the way we play, which is very much an NBA style. Like, we've had players like him that come in here and they are winning you games and you didn't anticipate it because of the skill set he brings, because it's a piece that fits so well to what we do.

Matt Jones (24:48)

I had to learn about him. So Mario and I were at your pro day.

Mark Pope (24:51)

Yeah.

Matt Jones (24:51)

And I give him a hard time about it because I, he was, I was like, I looked at Anzi Almanor. I'm guilty of this. And I went, I don't know about that dude. Like, I trust Mark, but I don't know. And I, and I used to joke, hey, Mario, this is your favorite player. And then I Saw it once the game started. I saw what you were. So that's what you're looking for are pieces.

Mark Pope (25:12)

And listen, this Cam Williams now is.

Matt Jones (25:15)

He's an NBA talent.

Mark Pope (25:16)

Yeah, he's an NBA piece. Like, he's. The NBA loves him. So it's not like we have some genius insight into, like, reading these guys, but, like, we. I think we have a pretty clear sense of how we'd like to do things and how we'd like to function and then finding the guys that suit that really well. And Cam is one of these guys that he's going to be great wherever he goes and plays, but coming here, where we're really, really going to dig in and use his skills, that he's going to be special. So it's all different.

Matt Jones (25:45)

So how do you find the dude from Croatia?

TJ Smith (25:48)

Well, we're going to jump back into the conversation in just a minute. Take a quick break. We'll be right back with more with Mark Pope. It is Kentucky Sports Radio. Welcome back. It is Kentucky Sports Radio. Let's get back to Matt's interview with Mark Pope.

Matt Jones (26:00)

He played a team. I don't. You probably know this when. When Kentucky played in the Bahamas in.

Mark Pope (26:06)

That we played them and beat it by, like 9,000.

Matt Jones (26:08)

We played that team. How did you end up with him?

Mark Pope (26:10)

In fact, I'm gonna throw Misko under the bus. So Misko is one of the top agents in all of. All of Europe. And so Misko, you know, had kind of been a party to setting up that game. And then I guess when they got to the game, there were a bunch of stipulations like, you guys aren't allowed to play Zoe. And so it was. So he's. He's still bitter about losing by 50 in that game. But no, we.

Matt Jones (26:37)

I remember they not allowed to play zone. Yeah, but, but so that. But I mean, you look and you go, now that we follow this guy, like, wow, how did you get on your radar?

Mark Pope (26:46)

Yeah. So, you know, our staff does an unbelievable job scouring everywhere, and he's a guy that kind of, you know, when you. So he's in a developmental team. Mega's a developmental team. So they play in a professional league, but they're all developmental guys. So they bring in really young guys and just raise them up, playing them against legitimate guys. And his length was super attractive to us once we got on film. And his skill set, his ability to push the ball in transition and kind of make a decision on the floor, and then talking to him was really great. So, you know, One of the interesting things is we go through this portal season is we talk to everybody. And the reason we talk to everybody is because we actually don't know who fits Kentucky. So we actually have to have multiple conversations, not just with the player, but with their, the team around them to understand if they fit here. There's so many guys that don't fit Kentucky. This place is.

Matt Jones (27:42)

Do you sometimes have to go meet them to know that?

Mark Pope (27:45)

Sometimes, but we don't always have that. You know, I'm a FaceTime Zoom guy, so I always.

Matt Jones (27:49)

Even with that, though, have you had meetings where you had the FaceTime and went, yeah, I just don't think this.

Mark Pope (27:53)

Works for a hundred percent. Yes. So that happens. This is a special, special place. So it happens more often than not that we're a little bit in and we're like, ah, I might love his talent. Be like, oh, he's not going to survive here. Or I might love him as a kid, but think, ah, his agenda is just different than our agenda. And so, you know, that process is really important. And that was one of the, one of the really important parts of the process with Andrea, because I liked him. You know, you never know. Like, we'll see how some of the skill set translates, some of the physicality translates, some of some of those things translate. But as we were exploring all those things, which I was so excited about all those pieces when I started talking about on the phone and like, it was one particular conversation on FaceTime where I'm talking to him and you could see him get emotional as he started to talk about the possibility of playing at the University of Kentucky.

Matt Jones (28:52)

And I'm like, that's it.

Mark Pope (28:53)

This our guy, right? Because he's going to get it. He's not going to miss it. As the head coach here running this program, I cannot bring guys in here that are going to miss this. It would feel like I'm disrespecting this place that I love so much. And sometimes, like uber talented guys could come here and miss this. But I think the guys are going to serve us well as a community and a commonwealth and as this, this incredible, you know, the pro, the flagship program, all college basketball are the guys that have come here and not miss it. And those are the guys could actually hang banners for us.

Matt Jones (29:27)

You know, you having played here, you know what it means to people to have dudes from Kentucky and you are going to have three on this year's team, which has got to be one of the most. Ryan sitting over there. I mean, not Many times we've had more than three.

Mark Pope (29:42)

I'm so proud of Ryan for having his shirt on. Still. This is. I'm really proud of you, man. That's actually super cool.

Matt Jones (29:47)

He's only been in here a few minutes, but from last year's team, you had Trent Noah, you had Travis Perry. Trent's coming back. Everybody's excited when the, when the Travis thing doesn't work out and he ends up going, what is your, like, how's that play out? Because you know what dudes from Kentucky mean to the fan base.

Mark Pope (30:07)

So this is the thing. So, you know, a bunch of things can be true at the same time. Travis. Travis Perry is special. Special, special. Like he just is. And he's a big time guy basketball player and he's gonna have a big time career. He's gonna be a terrific player and he's such a joy to coach. I mean, he just, you know, took in information and just wanted to get better. And he's got this seriousness about him that's pretty unflappable. And I just think he's got so many of the components of being a great basketball player, so. And I love coaching him. And that's all true. And so sometimes I get cautious about. When he told me that he was leaving, we actually were having an ongoing conversation. I was trying to, like, help him see what I saw. And I, you know, we just, just didn't get to the same place. I was super. It was devastating to me. It's actually like, it hurts my soul now just because I.

Matt Jones (31:05)

So you really tried to convince him.

Mark Pope (31:06)

Oh, man. I just desperately want him to stay and, And Travis Perry loves Kentucky. So that's when I say I want to be sensitive. Like, he loves Kentucky. It's just, he just, you know, I would never want to put words in his mouth, but I think probably he was just not feeling super confident about the path for him here at Kentucky being exactly what he wanted out of the game of basketball. Maybe I couldn't have disagreed with him more on that. But, you know, at the end of the day, we're all just making our best guess. I just know. And so, and listen, he's going to go to Ole Miss and he's going to have a great career there and he's going to do it.

Matt Jones (31:45)

They're probably going to play here next.

Mark Pope (31:47)

Year and he's a terrific player and all those things are true. I just know that being a Kentucky basketball player is so much bigger than being a basketball player. And it's my job to help Our guys see that and understand it and feel it. And you know, sometimes as old people, it's so much easier for us to see 10 years and 20 and 30 years down the road than it is for young guys. And so there's no so just all of that just. Man, it just breaks my heart. But I'm also, I love Travis and he's going to have a great run. And all those things are all true at the same time.

Matt Jones (32:36)

I'm gonna read you what Ryan Lemon just texted me. Alright. So now I got to give you the part where we give you a hard time. We have a little thing on the show where we talk about how much you say special.

Mark Pope (32:45)

Yeah.

Matt Jones (32:45)

And how much you say beautiful. And Ryan just said Pope threw out the trifecta. Special saying Travis Perry is special. Special. Special. You love those words. Beautiful and special.

Mark Pope (32:56)

Don't be, don't be, don't be mad at me. I mean, I'm not mad at you because Leanne crushes me. She's like, would you stop saying beautiful? At one point I was saying breathtaking. She's like, stop saying.

Matt Jones (33:06)

You didn't say them a lot.

Mark Pope (33:08)

She's like, could you please grow your lexicon so you can have some other words to say besides special and beautiful?

Matt Jones (33:14)

Beautiful is a big one. You're big on beautiful.

Mark Pope (33:16)

I'm actually gonna, I'm actually gonna put a card down here with some, some, some synonyms for my hyperbolic.

Matt Jones (33:22)

You know, dad, some people have a cuss jar. You need to have a beautiful and special jar. So they have to put a dollar in.

Ryan Lemon (33:30)

TJ Smith, personal injury attorney. Call tj he'll make him pay.

TJ Smith (33:34)

Now more of Kentucky Sports Radio presented by Stockton Mortgage. Here's Matt Jones. Welcome back. It is Kentucky Sports Radio. Yesterday Matt had the chance to sit down with Mark Pope for a pre recorded interview. And here is more of that interview right now.

Matt Jones (33:47)

Let me ask you some philosophy. Things about things I know Kentucky fans care about. Let's talk about scheduling real quick. You have made and we don't even know all the schedule yet. But like it's going to be a hard schedule. I mean, you know, and you start the Indiana series back. We got the St. John's game where they were replacing in the Champions Classic. There'll be an ACC team. Come here. I'm rooting for Duke, although I hear it's going to be something else which disappoints me. But that's not your control. And now you got these two preseason games, Purdue and today was announced Georgetown. You really believe in. Let's go play the best, right?

Mark Pope (34:20)

I mean, this is, you guys will hear me say this until as long as I get to be here. You know, if you're coming to Kentucky, don't come here and hide. It doesn't make sense to come here and hide. Like we're going to grow. We have some buy games where we're going to have a chance to grow and, and do whatever. But like this is, you know, if you'll let me. I spent the entire weekend and then I'm going to the SEC meetings next week and all I can talk about is we got to expand this over 31 games.

Matt Jones (34:48)

I agree.

Mark Pope (34:48)

Like, we got to expand this season, guys, because what's happening is especially with the revenue share now, like the revenue share should change everything in terms of our opportunity to actually go share revenue. Right? Let's get to, you know, I keep saying 40 and everyone's mad at me. I'm going to keep pushing 40, but can we get to 35? Imagine if we had four extra games that we could put on our schedule where we go play a big time neutral game and set up a home and home and, and, and do an in state game that people here really care about and just give us a little more flexibility in this deal. I just think, well, what's the downside?

Matt Jones (35:29)

I mean, I used to say, like, well, you don't want to have games during Christmas break, but who cares now? I mean, at this point, like, why not?

Mark Pope (35:36)

But this is the thing, is those are the greatest games. And listen, if, you know, every kid is aspiring to go play in the. So one year from now, they're going to be playing a crisis Christmas day game and their whole family is going to come, you know, with nil. Now you fly your family in for the Christmas Day game. You want to be a pro, let's be a pro. Right?

Matt Jones (35:57)

Yeah, I agree.

Mark Pope (35:58)

Even if you keep a three day window, right now they have this three day window, it's fine. You know, people argue about that. People, you don't have to make the season longer. Give us an extra week in the season, that's fine.

Matt Jones (36:08)

But December, you all play, it's like once a week a lot of times, right?

Mark Pope (36:12)

And we have six weeks of practice leading up to it anyway. Extend that a little just to double down on this whole insanity. You know, we'll get our guys in the summer and our guys, every college basketball player is making more probably than their parents right now. Okay. And the incredible thing is that during the summer these guys Are getting paid a significant amount of money and they're only allowed to put work four hours a week. And the guys are dying. They're like can we please, you know, can we please get together and get some work done? Like the whole thing is turned outside but I'm getting no, I actually think that makes point.

Matt Jones (36:54)

It makes perfect sense.

Mark Pope (36:55)

So all of that leads me back to like can we please extend this season? Because you know what? We get Purdue and Georgetown which is awesome in the non conference but come on man, let us do a home at home with Kansas. Like yes, go. Like why am I not going to stores to play a game? Like we should be able to preach.

Matt Jones (37:12)

Listen how exciting this is.

Mark Pope (37:14)

We need some more flexibility. This and also like we have to like let us get to Maui now. Part of the complication is is that we make so much revenue off our home games that I'm locked into this 20 game home slate. We have to do that to pay the bills for us and for the athletic department which is good. That's a good thing. It's fine. It's great. Bring on some more flexibility so we play some more games that every school can actually bring in some more revenue that we can share with these student athletes that we can share with the rest of the athletic department. Let's go.

Matt Jones (37:45)

Well, they have some of those tournaments now where the players get revenue and I would think that's probably helpful in recruiting if you can play in them. Right.

Mark Pope (37:53)

And our guys do better academically. It's the time tested proven. Our guys do better academically during the season than they do out of season. So let's make the season the whole school year.

Matt Jones (38:04)

Our guys will be 4.0 students to be academic stars.

Mark Pope (38:09)

I'm going to brag about this. Our guys, we were 3.5 GPA team this year. I'm super proud of our guys academically. Shout out to Michael Stone if you does everybody in bbn.

Matt Jones (38:20)

I think a lot of people do. Yeah.

Mark Pope (38:21)

Michael Stone is a legend. If you take your mom and you multiply her by 10, that is Michael Stone. He is relentless. I mean this guy, he is the greatest to ever do this job. Man. I love him.

Matt Jones (38:36)

So the only downside I've seen about your tenure is and I hear this from Louisville fans too. So like I loved at times how much Kentucky and Louisville hated each other. Cal and your old coach wanted to stab each other and still do whether they say it or not. But you and Pat Kelsey are too nice. Like the Louisville fans don't hate you. We don't really hate Pat Kelsey. That's the only thing I got to get you to spice up the Louisville rivalry a little bit.

Mark Pope (39:02)

I hate this Pat Kelsey and all.

Matt Jones (39:05)

Of those Louisville fans.

Mark Pope (39:08)

Hey, dog. Now here's the thing. I'm gonna tell you this. You know what's actually super cool.

Matt Jones (39:13)

Yeah.

Mark Pope (39:13)

Is that I got a boatload of respect for Pat Kelsey. Okay. I got so much. I think he's. What, he's. What he did last year was incredible.

Matt Jones (39:20)

Yes.

Mark Pope (39:20)

And I mean, two of my guys played for him last year. Right. And. And what they accomplished and, and you know, I don't, I don't have a ton of interaction with the little fan base, but I'm sure they're great. But, but here's the thing. I actually, I. The one thing I would say is that, that I actually think. I think that this, that this Kentucky Louisville thing is just going to get heated and. Heated. You know why it's going to get heated? Because it's going to be back to being like one verse four in the country.

Matt Jones (39:48)

No, they're going to be good. And they, and they have the nil to participate. And I think that's going to be yes. Yeah. Well, you get, you get to go in there next year. You'll get a sense of. I think they're going to be cussing at you like they used to cuss at me.

Mark Pope (40:00)

They would never. They would not do that.

Matt Jones (40:06)

I've had some blank Matt Jones chance from the student section, so I think maybe you'll get that as well. Okay. So going into year two, you made a statement that was like, we want to be the best in everything. And you basically said, and that included, we're going to be the. We're going to pay the most. We're going to do this, we're going to do that. I thought that was a really interesting statement. A lot of coaches want to downplay the future and kind of go. We want.

Mark Pope (40:30)

You're.

Matt Jones (40:30)

You're just embracing like, we're going to be the top and we're going to have to do that.

Mark Pope (40:34)

Yeah. It's Kentucky. Like, you know what, guys? Like, I'm not going to be the guy that comes to Kentucky as the head coach and somehow lowers the expectations of this place. Man. We're trying to win this whole thing. Like we failed at our job last year. You know, we believe that 100%. Like we. Listen, if I know myself for the last 30 years, I've been a die hard Kentucky fan. If we didn't win, I'm like, what is wrong with that coach, man? He can't win in Kentucky. That's what all my guys are saying to me every single day. And so, like, I'm not unrealistic. I understand the reality. But we're supposed to listen. We are blessed. I'll tell you the one thing that nobody in the world will deny. Okay, you can't actually argue. We have the greatest fan base in all of college basketball. There's no one, any other fan base that would argue that. Nobody can argue that. And so that fan base deserves the best of everything. And so you go down the list and. And we're trying to be the best at everything. And that's what Kentucky is supposed to be. That's what Kentucky has traditionally been. That's what. You know, I was just with. I was just with Carl Anthony Towns yesterday in New York, and that's what he expects out of this joint. And. And. And that's what Anton.

Matt Jones (41:44)

So you were with Carl yesterday?

Mark Pope (41:45)

Yeah, I mean, it's what. That's what all our former players, former coaches, you know what. You know, that's what Cal expects. I mean, Cal is at that. Arkansas, he's like, don't you ruin my program, man. That's the best song. I wonder basketball.

Matt Jones (41:57)

I wonder when you got here. Here was. Here was a worry I had, not about you as a coach, but, you know, Kentucky fans, I think we're ready for a different thing. But they do love that we have 26 guys in the NBA and they love those guys. And they watch them, they still feel very connected. And there was a part of me that goes, will those guys still embrace this new coach, this new era? And then I saw Andrew Harrison, who's not in the pros, but said he watched more UK games this year than he had in years past. And I've seen you, you know, talking, and Devin Booker gave you a compliment and all these guys. Was that important to you to keep that bond with all those NBA guys and all those guys that played for Cal?

Mark Pope (42:36)

Well, it's. Listen, I mean, guys played for Cal and played for Tubby and played for Joby and. And so those relationship. Listen, you develop a really special relationship with your head coach, like every player does. That should never go away. Like, I mean, I played for Coach Pitino. Coach Pitino is coaching in St. John's I'm not going to wear a St. John's T shirt, but I love Coach Pitino. I say that from the rooftops. I'll shout it from the rooftops if, you know, I Shouted a little quieter when he was coaching at Louisville, but otherwise I shouted. So that relationship is always going to exist. But here's the thing, just like we were talking about with TP, right? I am 30 years down the road and I know what it feels like to walk back into a Rupp arena with your family and to let your children see this place that changed the trajectory of your life forever. And it means something. It was actually super. I don't know, of course gonna get mad at me, but I was with him yesterday and he talked. That's what he talked about. He's actually so forward thinking that he's already thinking about legacy. And so he was talking about one day when he brings his children back to Kentucky and that they get to see. Because the truth is that we all stop playing and then the next guys become way cooler to our kids.

Matt Jones (43:59)

Yeah.

Mark Pope (44:00)

And then you get to walk back into the gym and you get to see this relationship that our 30 year old, you know, 30 years ago played in Rupp, played at Kentucky Jersey. You still feel, see how people embrace them and you get to walk in with your children and they get to feel that and they get to see you in a light that they never actually saw you in their life.

Matt Jones (44:20)

You look cooler than they did.

Mark Pope (44:22)

And that's a real thing. And I know that. I mean, I got to play in the league as a bad player for a long time. I know what it's like. And so I want every single coach, every single one and every single player that ever played here to feel like this is their building because they built it. Like we get to enjoy it right now. I get to be the head coach at Kentucky enjoying this because of what Cat and what Antwan and what Tony and what Kyle Macy and what Joby, what all those guys built. That's what I get to enjoy right now. And so it's really important to me that every single person that ever wore this jersey or walked these sidelines always feels like this is home. Because that's what BBN does. That's how BBN is, man. There's no fan base like it. You know, you finished, you put on this jersey, and 30 years from now, whether you were the best player on the team or you're coming off the bench for two seconds at the end of the last game of the conference season, they will remember you and, and cherish you because you shared an experience together.

Matt Jones (45:25)

Yeah. John Wall, who. It's crazy to me, but it almost gets me emotional to hear John Wall talk about how excited he is about you. Like, that's a great sort of melding of time.

TJ Smith (45:34)

Got to take a break here. Final segment with Mark Pope coming up next, it is ksr. Welcome back. Final segment of Kentucky Sports Radio. And the last segment with Matt Jones and Mark Pope.

Matt Jones (45:46)

You went to London on Sunday. You saw that devastation down there, which I also saw on Saturday, and then we took the show on Monday. It is very hard to describe. Pictures and video don't do it justice. You were there. I know that had to have had an effect on you.

Mark Pope (46:05)

Yeah, it's so. I mean, man, I had so many, you know, I was only there for six hours on Saturday. I was in Omaha and Memphis recruiting. And I call, I heard, heard about the reports. And so I called Shep and I was just like, you know what? And everything's happening in real time on the ground. So Shep was like, I don't know, man. We're still racing around trying to find out what's what and who's who and how we can help and who needs help. And so he texted me. I got back late that night. He texted me and said, hey, there's a place where I'm going to go tomorrow with a few people. We're just going to try and actually just try and help one house, right? Just help one family. And so he gave me an address. And we actually got there early that morning, took a couple of my daughters and then a couple of their friends. And we ended up parking a few hours away because there was so much stuff. And we got out of the car and we actually never made it to the house we were supposed to go to because we got out of the car and I'm just say their first names. But a senior couple, maybe late 70s, early 80s, Catherine and Jerry, were outside their house. There was a bunch of trees that had fallen on their roof, a huge trailer that I think had blown from the airport and flipped over, right, pushed against the side of their house. It was just absolute chaos. And they were outside kind of like trying to pick up stuff. And so we just stopped right there and we just started helping them. And then he grabbed it, little chainsaw, and he started cutting off little branch of these trees. We started taking it down. And then, you know what was really miraculous, just to give you, I'll emphasize the hopeful side of this was seemed like every half an hour a new group of people showed up. And by the time we finished, you know, six hours later, we removed all these trees from off their house. We had probably four chainsaws working the big guns came in and we had a big, you know, kind of forklift that came, and it was helping to lift trees. And there was a family that was really special to me from Paducah that they had just come and parked and walked into the front yard after us. And I was like, do you guys know the family where. He's like, nah. We were in Paducah when things were really tough four or five years ago. People came, helped us. So when we heard about. So we got in the car and we drove out, out here, and we're like, we're gonna, like, we're gonna go pay it, pay it back, pay it forward, right? Kind of thing. And he was just like. And then when we. We. When we left, we're trying to drive out, and I kid you not, there was a. Like a. It was a. It was a parking lot for like a mile with people coming into town trying to help. And we drove by a gas station. There's two people out there with signs that are like. They just had signs scribbled, a magic marker, free food. So, you know, you just inviting people to come stop by and if they. If they need some food. And the point is, like, there's so much work to be done. And it's like, you know, all of us that go in, you know, like, we went in the first day, and so that's all great, but they're going to be fighting us for the next years. Right? And so the continuity of help and care for this community really is really important. But it was. I'm telling you, it's Kentucky. It's Kentucky, man. The same vibe that we have in BBN where there's this. It's just this connection point. Like people in the state, from my vantage point, like, we are great at loving our neighbor. Like, people love their neighbors, man. And that's a. To me, that's a gospel principle that's so important, but it's something that we see lived out in the lives of people here. And Kentucky's had way more than its fair share of natural disaster over the last couple years, but it was inspiring. And I saw you guys down there and. And you know what? I'll give you a little shadow here because I think it's so cool. So, you know, I know you guys. I think you were on air live there, but I saw some social media stories that you guys did where people were telling their story. And I want to expand this just as this connection point. So I had some guys come into my office, like a month ago. I haven't had a chance to tell you this. And this gentleman, an incredible artist, just an amateur artist. He got a real job, but he's just. He's just. And so he did this incredible painting from the. From the press conference a year ago.

Matt Jones (50:23)

Yeah.

Mark Pope (50:24)

And he brought the office, and this was what was super cool. So it was him. And he brought his four buddies, and they're my age, they're 50. Right. And kind of gave me this gift. And so we're sitting down talking in the office, and so we got. At this point where they're like, ah, man. We just. You know, when I get up in the morning, the first thing I do is be like, what's happening? You know, what's going on new? And then. Then I'm listening to ksr, you know, while I'm working, and then, you know, I get home and after dinner, I'll go check to see, you know, what else has happened with the cats and the whole thing. And it's this connection point, the same thing we're talking about that you guys do an incredible job providing is. Is. And I say this all the time, like, it doesn't really matter if you say something bad about me or good about me or bad about the cats or good about the cats. What matters is that there's all these people coming to the well. So I got to. I've been a chance to go to Africa so many times and do some service trips there. And in these communities, the well, in these villages, the well is where you always find people because everybody is constantly. Throughout the day, you have to go. You have to leave your hut and you walk across the village and you go to the well to collect water. It's happening all throughout the day. And so the well is a special place because it's where everybody gathers and everybody interacts, and you guys do an unbelievable job. And I thought it was so special that you guys went down there and. And just, like, brought the well there to where everybody could see that. Super cool, man. I appreciate you doing that.

Matt Jones (51:54)

Well, I want to thank you. I'll let you go. But I want to say this set with you a year ago, and I told you that before you'd gotten hired, I was kind of like, you know what? I might be done with this. And you said to me. And at that point, I decided to stay, but you said to me you, like, begged me to go. I was like, you don't have to beg me. I'm gonna do it. But you have. This is the fan Matt talking, not the radio host. You have rejuvenated the, the love part of this. People always love the basketball, people always wanted to win, all that. But you have rejuvenated the thing where there's a pride, there's a self esteem that comes with being a part of it. And there's that collectiveness in a state that's had a lot of difficulties historically, but especially in the last few years. This is that center point. And I've watched people who had kind of gone, you know, I don't know if college sports.

TJ Smith (52:50)

All right, we are out of time. We got to cut it off there. If you want to hear the entire podcast uninterrupted, we're going to have that for you. Just check that out on the feed. Thanks for listening, Everybody. It's been KSR.

Ryan Lemon (53:01)

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