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Kwik Brain with Jim Kwik
Becoming an Active Learner & Leading Like a High Level Executive with David Novak
00:19:56
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Kwik Brain Bite sized brain hacks for busy people who want to learn faster and achieve more. I'm your coach, Jim Kwik. Free your mind. Let's imagine if we could access 100% of our brain's capacity.
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B
I wasn't high, wasn't wired, just clear. I knew what I needed to do and how to do it. I know kung fu.
- [00:23]
A
Show me. Welcome back Kwik Brains. I'm your host and your brain coach, Jim Kwik. I am especially excited about today's guest and the topic because of our somewhat overlapping journey that led us both to the area of learning and now helping other people to learn better. Starting life as a trailer park kid who lived in 23 states before high school, Novak built his career at PepsiCo, rapidly ascending to become co founder and CEO of one of the largest corporations in the world, Nova, the global restaurant icon. Yum. Brands with 55,000 restaurants plus and over 1 million employees. He credits active learning with helping them to get there. He is the author of the bestselling book which I highly recommend, how Leaders Learned. Welcome to the show, David.
- [01:16]
B
Well Jim, it's real honor to be with you. I admire your approach to coaching and leading and your passion for learning which we share.
- [01:25]
A
I really appreciate reading the book. So this is going to be an interesting conversation. I would encourage, encourage everybody to listen to the extended version on YouTube where we go beyond 20 minutes. You can join our 1.8 million subscribers there. I think when our community asked us about doing this interview with you, they saw parallels. Our community knows that I had a brain injury when I was five. I was put in special education learning difficulties. And in the book you talk about learning and active learning. Maybe you could talk about where you see the difference between passive learning and active learning.
- [01:56]
B
It's one thing to learn something, you know, and, and I know when I first started writing the book I, I, I was talking about, thought about being an avid learner and because I, I really felt like I was an avid learner and a lot of the leaders that I knew were avid learners. But then I, I thought, you know what, it's not just learning for learning's sake, you know, which can make you book smart. Okay. It's what do you do once you learn something? Do you put it into action? And what I realized is that the best, the, the best leaders, most successful people, they're not avid learners. You know, they've taken it a step further. They've become active learners. So they seek knowledge wherever they can find it and then they, they Apply it. And they say, well, what if. What if I did this this way? I might be a different person or I might have a different business. But, hey, if they're doing this over at Amazon, and I happen to be running a restaurant business, how could I take what they're doing there and apply to my business and put it into action? You know, I've had the good fortune to know Tom Brady, who is one of the best active learners I've ever talked to in my life. And, you know, he goes to a throwing coach. He goes to this guy named Tom House. And Tom House is renowned for being able to help people with their footwork and throw the ball better than they ever thought they could could do it. Now, Tom could go to meet Tom House, work with him for a few days, and then go back to the New England Patriots or the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and just keep doing what he was doing. No, that's not what he does. He goes, he learns, he applies, and. And then he puts it to use and he gets better and better. And Tom House told me, who I interviewed in. In with one of my podcasts, that he'd never seen anybody, you know, more diligent about putting into practice what. What he learned. She said, he come to the. To the training session, he'd write down everything. Afterwards, he says, now what do I need to do? And he'd write it down in his words, and then he'd ask Tom House to tell him what it was in his words, and then he'd go back and he put it into action. He'd get better and better. And I think that's what, you know, the best. Best in the world do is. And, you know, they seek it out and then they put it into action.
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A
Because the idea here is, like, we hear this phrase that knowledge is power, but a lot of people know things, but they're not applying it. So it has the potential to be power. Somebody could read a book and not apply it is no better off than somebody who couldn't read the book to begin with. Like, if they're illiterate, right? If they're not using it. And you emphasize in the book the importance of continuous learning for leaders. Maybe you could talk a little bit about how do you cultivate that curiosity? Is that something just somebody is born with? How do people stay open to new ideas even when they've reached maybe even the top of their field? We have a lot of decision makers. Our company serves half of the Fortune 500 companies and mental fitness trainings. We have a lot of listeners that are at a high level, but how do they remain curious?
- [05:09]
B
I think the most successful people really know the importance of asking really great questions. They've discovered that, boy, when you can ask that great question, that really leads to a great insight. It really moves the ball forward. So, you know, they've observed, you know, so many times people talk about being a born leader or being born curious. You know, I don't agree with that. I think you have some certain things that help you be inherently better at some things than. Than other people. But I think most things can be learned, most things can be picked up, and you get there through observation. If you have any kind of drive, you will look around you and you will see who's doing something better than you. And then you got to ask yourself, why? Why is that happening? What do they do that maybe I'm not doing? And I think just that self reflection, you know, building that kind of awareness of the world outside you and then bringing it back to yourself, I think that really allows you to know yourself and then ultimately grow yourself. I know I have skills because of the way I grew up, that I know how to get along with people. I know how to, you know, I know how to meet people maybe a little bit easier than other people do. But, you know, I started out as an advertising copywriter and I ended up as a CEO. Now, how in the hell did that happen? I mean, you know, it happened because I looked around and I saw what other people were doing and what I needed to do if I was going to really take my performance to the next level or, and. And move up and up in my career. And so I was constantly evaluating, if I had one job, who had the job above me, what were they doing? What skills did they have that maybe I needed to learn? And then what I would do is go out and seek those skills. When I became the CEO of Yum Brands, I'd never had any experience working with Wall Street. So we had connections with the Coca Cola company, and I knew that Warren Buffett was on the Coca Cola board. And I called Doug Ivester up and I said, could you introduce me to Warren Buffett? I'd like to go talk to him and learn how to. How his advice on. On how to work with the. The investment community. But when I went to see him, he taught me this concept of sober selling. You know, I'm a very passionate, enthusiastic person. I love my brands, I love the business. And he said, David, he said, have you ever. Have you ever talked about what could go wrong with your business. And I said, oh, no, Warren, I'm always telling everybody how great everything is, and, and, and, you know, all this potential we have. And he said, well, you know what? Tell people at the end of your presentations what could go wrong. And he said, that'll give you a lot of credibility that you've thought about that and you're aware of that. So I started doing that, Jim, and I have to tell you, it was enormously successful. I found most of the investors would argue with me and say, oh, no, that's not going to happen. Okay. But by bringing it up, I think it gave me a lot more credibility because I think, and I write about this in the book, you have to, as a leader, you have to see the world the way it really is, not the way you want it to be. And the more you can show that you're seeing the whole picture and you learn how to do that, I think the more impactful and more trusted you are.
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A
You mentioned Warren Buffett, so you've worked with or spent time with some of the greatest minds, modern minds in business. Was there one thing that surprised you like a lesson, an observation, as you've mentioned, that you've learned from observing other leaders and wondering if our audience could take that idea or insight to accelerate their own growth. A surprising lesson from some of these great minds.
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B
I think that one of the things that I've learned is that the best of the best are very grateful. They're really grateful that they have this opportunity. They don't quite understand why they got the opportunity to become who they have become, but they don't feel like it was something that they were entitled to. They feel very blessed by it. And that gratitude, I think, raises their performance level and, and gives them a, a humility that allows them to bring out the best from other people. And, you know, I, I think that that that gratitude and, and a lack of what I call a sense of entitlement is, is, is really what separates a lot of people. I, I, One of the, the great leaders, probably maybe the, the, the best CEO in the world, certainly the best financial CEO in the world, is Jamie Dimon. And you know, Jamie Dimon is, is just at his very core, is a, is, is a really humble, humane, caring person that feels very grateful that he happens to be running the biggest financial institution in, in. In the world. And, you know, he, he's real, he has that genuineness that causes people to gravitate to him. Now, if he didn't have that sense of gratitude, I don't think he would send out that kind of karma that would make people really want to get on his bandwagon. And it seems like everybody that I know that's successful has that.
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A
Yeah, gratitude's an amazing foundation. It's been my observation what you appreciate and grateful for what you appreciate, appreciates. I was wondering, before leading others, I assume you need to lead yourself. And I was just wondering if there were insights or do you have a key habit or routine that you recommend for leaders to do these things. You mentioned to stay grounded, to stay humble, to stay focused, to stay more effective, to stay curious.
- [11:29]
B
In fact, I do. And it was probably one of the most effective tools that I used when I was CEO of the company, and I still use it today. But it's basically you get a three by five card or four by six, it doesn't matter. It could be a eight by ten, you know, but on one half of it, you write down you what am I today? And you force yourself to really think about basis, what you know about yourself, what other people tell you about yourself. What am I today? And then on the other half you write, how can I be even more effective tomorrow? You know, for example, like when I was coming up in business, I was very, very enthusiastic, okay? But I was so enthusiastic I could be a little bit overwhelming, okay? And so I needed to say, okay, I was enthusiastic. So I needed to evolve in that particular year to tempered enthusiasm. Just dial it back a little bit, okay? You know, on a technical skill, when I used to be a very, I mean, almost fearful presenter or public speaker, so, you know, I would write down fearful presenter, you know, what I had to do is become at least confident, you know, or at least competent, you know, and, you know, and that would force me to literally, you know, seek out somebody could help me with my speaking abilities. And you know, it's funny, when I was coming up in business, I bet I would say when I made a presentation, first of all, I'd start out with a stupid joke just to try to make myself relax. That really was never that funny. And then I bet I would say, you know, a thousand times. You know, what would seem like a thousand times? I'd hear much and, and I also would tell you, I would hear myself talk. So if I made a mistake, I would hear it because I was so into being so good that, you know, I was just, you know, focused on, on the wrong thing. So I went to this person to help me with my ability to, to do presentations. I saw myself on videotape he gave me some suggestions. I took it, you know, and I got better and better. And then I would get in jobs where I had to speak more and I had to get better and better at it. Now I get paid incredible amounts of money to just go speak to, to organizations, you know, in a 45 minutes, you know. You know, and you know, for me, it all goes to, you know, our, our nonprofit work. But the fact of the matter is, if you would have told me when I was 28 or 29 years old that David Novak would be getting paid to give motivational speeches or anything, I, I wouldn't have believed it yet. But the fact of the matter is I learned how to do it, but it was, it was within me. But anyway, I did the 3 by 5 cart and every year and I post it on my refrigerator. So I look at it every year and every day. So I'm looking at it. And when I was coaching my people, I would start out with everybody, okay, let's Talk about your 3x5 card. How you doing? You know, let's talk about that. Then we go through the, the hard objectives, the, you know, key performance issues, and we talk about that. But we always started out first with how are you developing yourself as a leader and how are you coming on your three by five card? And that was so powerful. That was in it. It was the best way to, best way to coach because, you know, people will only care about you until you show them that you care about them.
- [14:55]
A
You mentioned the power of action and I think, you know, everyone should just as one action step, pick up your book how Leaders Learn. For someone reading how Leaders learn, going back to the power of acting on what you've learned, maybe you have one, two or three immediate actions that our listeners, you would recommend that they take to start learning and leading at a, at a higher level.
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B
Today I think, number one, you want to look at everything as a learning opportunity. So open up your mind to that basic premise is that what can I learn from this particular situation? Even if it's a bad situation, how can you flip the script and say, okay, what can I, what can I get at? Okay. Number two, really take the time to reflect so that you have a high self awareness of who you are as a person and where your particular business is so that you, you have a real understanding of who you are and what your business is. And then do a know how building thought process where you say, who can I go to that will help me get better in these areas. Put process around learning so that you can identify who you can go to to help your business or help yourself really, really grow. So, so those are, those are two big things, I think.
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A
Final question. I would be remiss not to ask this on a, you know, conversation about learning. Is there one thing that you are currently learning or plan to be learning or studying that has you particularly excited?
- [16:31]
B
The one thing I'm most excited about my life right now is I, I'm now writing country songs.
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A
I love this.
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B
And I've got a, an album that I'm going to be doing next year. And you know, I'm going to use it to, to raise money for my late wife's diabetes institute, the Wendy Novak Diabetes Institute. But I've written, you know, these. I think they're really good songs. I have a lot of people tell who told me that they, they really like them. I'm going to try to get some top singers to sing them for this album. My wife, before she died, she gave me a guitar, you know, because I, I'm a, I'm a writer, I'm a creative person. I'm a concept person. I'm not a, I'm not a musician. And, and I said, there's no way I can, I, I can do the guitar. You know, I'm, I'm gonna get good enough at it. She says, well, that doesn't sound like a very good learning mentality. And, and you know, I still haven't learned the guitar. Okay. But I am, I am learning more about how to write songs. But, you know, maybe someday I'll pick that guitar up she gave me and get better at it.
- [17:32]
A
It's absolutely outstanding. I feel inspired. Always be learning. I think that's actively learning is the message that we have for everybody today. How can people stay in touch? I mean, obviously I recommend everyone get a copy of your book where they could find books. Is there a way for them to connect?
- [17:51]
B
If you're an active learner, the way I think I can help you the most is I think you need to listen to my How Leaders Lead podcast. It's, it's a highly rated podcast, but I interview people like Tom Brady, Jamie Dimon, Condoleezza Rice. I just did Jenny Britton, who's founded the Jenny's Ice Cream. I also have a How Leaders Lead app, which is a daily two minute devotional on, on Leadership. It's free. You can go to it where I take a basically lead done two minute or under clips from the podcast. I've done that I post every day. Just like it'd be like a Bible devotional. If you go to LinkedIn constantly writing articles. David Novak's on LinkedIn. David Novak Ogo on Twitter I I do a daily inspiration that I try to do every day. But it's, it's a great honor to be on this show, Jim, because I appreciate what you do and, and how you do it. And it's an honor for me to be able to share what I've learned and that gives me a tremendous amount of joy.
- [19:01]
A
I could see it. I think passion is what lights you up and learning lights you up. And purpose is how you use your passion to light other people up. So you love to learn. It lights you up. And sharing, learning with others lights them up. We find more of our purpose. Highly recommend to everyone. Check out the book. We will put a link to everything that David just mentioned, actually to his website, to his app, everything. Social media at our show Notes as we always do@jimquik.com notes and as always, you can find more ways to fuel your learning and potential on our YouTube channel where we post extended versions of this episode. Feel free to screenshot this and tag us both on social media. Share one thing you learned and one action you're going to take because of it. Make sure you hit the subscribe button button. Leave a comment under this episode we read every single one of them. This is your brain coach Jim Quick until next time, be limitless.