Maintain a Thriving Mind Through Life's Messy Moments with Dr. Julie Smith

Summary

Podcast Summary: Kwik Brain with Jim Kwik

Episode Title: Maintain a Thriving Mind Through Life's Messy Moments with Dr. Julie Smith

Release Date: February 24, 2025
Host: Jim Kwik
Guest: Dr. Julie Smith, Clinical Psychologist & Author

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jim Kwik is joined by Dr. Julie Smith, psychologist and widely followed mental health educator, to discuss practical strategies for maintaining a healthy, resilient mind through life’s unpredictable and “messy” moments. Drawing from Dr. Smith’s new book, Open When, the conversation navigates emotional tools, self-criticism, assertiveness, decision-making, and how to recalibrate when life’s balance feels impossible. Dr. Smith shares not just insights, but actionable exercises and explains why small shifts in self-talk and boundaries can yield significant benefits for everyday mental health.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Inspiration for Open When

[02:06 – 04:58]

• Dr. Smith describes how her social media sharing of therapeutic “education” catalyzed the Open When book concept:
  • Many people need targeted advice “in the moment” of crisis, not just long-form general guidance.
  • The book is structured like “open when” letters—short, situation-specific chapters you can dip into, much like receiving the right words at the right time from a caring friend or psychologist.
• Importance of having accessible, direct support in tough moments, especially for those who may not have a helpful person present.

“Whatever scenario you’re in that is sort of a kind of universal human experience, you need to be able to dip into that chapter, go there and get a bit of a pep talk from a psychologist.”
– Dr. Julie Smith [04:07]

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2. Shifting from Destructive Self-Criticism to Uplifting Self-Talk

[04:58 – 08:29]

• Dr. Smith discusses why intense self-criticism feels necessary for some, but is often counterproductive:
  • Many hold onto self-critical voices, thinking it drives success, but it actually increases anxiety and can lead to depression or perfectionism.
  • Self-compassion is frequently misunderstood as indulgence, rather than as supporting accountability and learning.
• The most effective internal voices are like encouraging coaches or compassionate teachers—firm but motivating rather than shaming.
• Practical exercise: Reflect on how your “best” and “worst” past teachers made you feel; use that emotional tone to guide your self-talk.

“The best teacher didn’t sound like that highly self-critical voice you have in your head. It’s more like a coach who has your best interests at heart, thinks you have great potential, and wants you to get there.”
– Dr. Julie Smith [06:54]

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3. Boundaries, Assertiveness, and Navigating Guilt

[08:29 – 12:03]

• Many struggle with saying “no,” especially those who are naturally agreeable or have learned to prioritize others’ needs.
• People-pleasing is not the same as being “nice” or truly kind; boundaries are necessary for healthy relationships with others and oneself.
• Assertiveness involves not just techniques but handling the emotions—especially guilt—that arise from holding boundaries.
• The emotional resistance to boundaries often stems from childhood lessons, but as adults, we can choose new, healthier ways to advocate for ourselves even as those old feelings persist.

“The struggle isn’t in the word ‘no.’ The struggle is in the feeling that comes with saying it. And often, it’s a sense of guilt... But it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to then act in line with that feeling.”
– Dr. Julie Smith [10:53]

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4. Decision-Making & Embracing Imperfection

[13:59 – 18:32]

• Dr. Smith tackles the fear many have about making the “wrong” choice, emphasizing:
  • The idea of an objectively “right path” with no regrets is a myth; all choices carry costs.
  • Instead, focus on living according to your personal values, so any regrets are at least meaningful ones you can live with.
• Actionable tool: Use a simple “values grid” to clarify what matters in each area of your life (family, work, health, etc.), rate how important each is, and how well you’re currently living in line with it. This helps redirect attention to neglected areas, supporting self-correction rather than criticism.
• Life balance is not a static state, but a constant process of noticing what’s off and adjusting.

“It’s a real fallacy, this idea that balance is some sort of sweet spot that you find and then stay there... It’s much more this constant to-ing and fro-ing.”
– Dr. Julie Smith [17:40]

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5. Dr. Smith’s Current Obsession: Cognitive Analytic Therapy

[18:56 – 20:08]

• Dr. Smith is currently learning about Cognitive Analytic Therapy (CAT)—a framework examining how early relationships shape adult patterns and how to map, understand, and break recurring cycles.
• CAT offers a practical, map-like approach to identifying why we repeat certain behaviors in relationships and how to change them.

“It’s just this beautiful way of mapping out what happens... the details change each time, but the theme and the cycle stays the same, and it’s a way of beginning to break those cycles.”
– Dr. Julie Smith [19:35]

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Notable Quotes

• “No learning can take place while you’re busy trying to grapple with your worthiness as a human being.”
  – Jim Kwik paraphrasing Dr. Julie Smith’s writing [04:58]

• “Books are a good second best... If that person’s not there, or you don’t have that person in your life at the moment.”
  – Dr. Julie Smith [04:31]

• “While people can feel driven by [self-criticism], it then increases your risk of feeling anxious a lot of the time, or getting depressed, or leading to sort of perfectionism that feels like protection from those shame feelings but really isn’t.”
  – Dr. Julie Smith [05:41]

• “To be the best person you can be, you need to have boundaries and assertiveness skills.”
  – Dr. Julie Smith [09:37]

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Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• [04:07] — Origin of the “Open When” concept: inspired by “open when” letters and what people really need in a crisis.
• [06:54] — Analogy of the “best teacher” as a model for inner dialogue, replacing self-criticism.
• [10:53] — Insight that the struggle with boundaries is less about technique and more about tolerating guilt.
• [17:40] — Dr. Smith’s “constant to-ing and fro-ing” metaphor for true balance in life.
• [19:35] — Introduction to Cognitive Analytic Therapy and how it can help break negative life cycles.

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Staying Connected with Dr. Julie Smith

• Instagram & YouTube: @DrJulie
• Books: Why Has Nobody Told Me This Before and Open When are available widely (link in Dr. Julie’s Instagram bio).

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Conclusion

This episode offers a highly actionable and compassionate approach to self-care, focusing on education, emotional awareness, and realistic tools for when life feels overwhelming. Dr. Julie Smith’s insights encourage listeners to reconsider their inner narratives, embrace imperfect journeys, and equip themselves with practical strategies to bounce back from life’s messy moments—one mindful adjustment at a time.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Kwik Brain Bite Sized Brain Hacks for busy people who want to learn faster and achieve more. I'm your coach, Jim Kwik. Free your mind. Let's imagine if we could access 100% of our brain's capacity.

[B]

I wasn't high, wasn't wired, just clear.

[A]

I knew what I needed to do and how to do it. I know kung fu. Show me. Welcome back Kwik Brains. I am your host and your brain coach, Jim Kwik. When life gets messy, most of us struggle to be the voice that we need to hear. The moment that storm hits, the last thing you need to hear is how you could have been better prepared. And today we'll discover how to navigate some of life's most tricky moments and return to a place of calmness, of strength, of positivity when you're in the thick of it. Our guest today is Dr. Julie Smith. I'm so excited for this conversation. It's a long time happening. I enjoy following her on social media. She is a clinical psychologist, author and content creator. She has devoted her career to learning everything possible about adult mental health and the intricacies of the human mind. Dr. Julie's first book, why Has Nobody Told Me this Before, sold over a million copies and has been rated number six in the biggest nonfiction books of the 2000 and twenties. And today we'll be discussing her newly released book, Open when and if you're watching this on YouTube, which I highly suggest you do, or put the extended version. I'm holding a copy of the book right here. Welcome to the show, Dr. Julie.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me, Jim. Like you said, it's been a long time coming, hasn't it? I'm looking forward to this one for sure.

[A]

Thanks for taking the time. Why don't we start here? Open when is a fascinating concept. Could you share with us what inspired you to write this particular book and how you envision it impacting our audience's mental health and their resilience?

[B]

Sure. So the When I first started sharing videos on social media, it was really about sharing the educational aspect of therapy. So a lot of people think that you go to therapy and you just talk. And that's true to a degree, but you also learn a lot about how your mind works, how you can impact on your own mood or your relationships and different skills. And I found that a lot of people who came along for therapy didn't need long term therapy. Once they had the educational parts, they were so just raring to go. They were kind of saying things to Me like, you know, that that's where the title of the first book came from. Why has nobody told me this before? You know, this isn't rocket science, but when I take it seriously and I put it into my daily life, it's making a big difference. And so that first book was a sort of insights from therapy. You know, the skills that you can practice and hone so that when things happen in life as they do, you're more equipped to deal with it and in the best way possible. And what I found was some of the feedback that really struck me from the first book was people saying, oh, you know, I found it really, really helpful. So helpful that I carry it with me everywhere I go just in case I have a crisis moment. And. And that was a really lovely compliment, but at the same time I just couldn't help think, oh, I didn't really write it for those moments, you know, that those aren't the things that I would say to someone when they're in the eye of struggling to work out, you know, which way is through. And so I felt like that needed a much more kind of direct approach, focused on this moment and thinking about, you know, where to focus your attention next, that sort of thing. And so that's where the idea of open when was born, because a lovely follower had sent me these little open when letters. I didn't know that was a thing people did for each other. But you send them lots of little envelopes and each one is a different, you know, open when you feel sad or open when you're having a bad day, this kind of thing. And they had little quotes inside and that was kind of really cute idea. And I thought that's what a book needs to be about, where whatever scenario you're in, that is sort of a kind of universal human experience. You need to be able to dip into that chapter, go there and get a bit of a pep talk from, from a psychologist or, you know, I find that when you're in those moments and you're trying to work out which way is up, it's so valuable to have someone in your life who just seems to say the right thing at the right time and they either activate you or they bring you to a level of calm, or they redirect your att attention to the place that is going to lead you through and out the other side. And sometimes it's just a slight shift in that attention. But even the people that have someone like that in their lives, they're not there all the time. So I always Encourage people to reach out to human beings as a first choice. But if that person's not there or you don't have that person in your life at the moment, then books are a good second best, I think.

[A]

Now in your book you say that no learning can take place while you're busy trying to grapple with your worthiness as a human being. I'm curious, how do you recommend we go from that kind of self criticism that brings you down to the kind that gives you energy to get back up after. After setbacks?

[B]

Yeah, I think it's interesting because when we, when we deal with sort of high self criticism in a therapeutic environment, I found that a lot of people wanted to hold onto it even when they knew it was making them miserable. They believed that it was the driver, the main driver for their success and that without it, that if they were kinder to themselves or more constructive, that they would lose that drive and that sort of anxiety that gets them up and out and trying really hard. And that's not really true. So while people can feel driven by that, it then sort of increases your risk of feeling anxious a lot of the time or getting depressed or leading to sort of perfectionism type ways of doing things that feels like protection from those shame feelings, but really isn't. And so the idea of a more self compassionate approach people imagine, I think people confuse it with indulgence. So they think that, okay, if I'm being nice to myself, that means I'm letting myself off the hook. I'm not being accountable, I'm not being disciplined. And it's really not about that. It's really. I like to talk people through this idea of, well, I thought of this other example earlier which was more sort of the worst teacher you ever had and how they used to speak to you and how they used to make you feel. You could spend some time kind of thinking about that and analyzing that and then you could think about, well, who was the best teacher you ever had and how did they speak to you and how did they make you feel? And I'm kind of placing a bet on this that I'm betting that the best teacher didn't sound like that highly self critical voice that you have in your head. It's more of something that probably sounds something like the way that a coach would speak to an elite athlete. So it's someone who has your best interests at heart, thinks you have great potential and wants you to get there. When you experience setback or failure, they let you know and remind you that it doesn't say anything about who you are as a person or your worth, but it's a part of your learning experience and it's an. It's. So it's not. It's not who you become, it's something you experience and someone who says the right things to sort of haul you back up onto your feet again when you fall. And, and so often I'll talk to people about this kind of. So rather than this clear set of instructions, it's much more, I think, more helpful to have a kind of a feel for it, you know, this idea in your head of that really encouraging coach that you just want to try again for. And, you know, the, you know, miss Trunchable style. Worst teacher that you ever had that made you want to ditch out of school. And, and from that you get the feel. So it's less about the exact words and much more about knowing how powerful those words are and how they make you feel so that you can choose them carefully based on what makes you feel that you can get back up again when you're stumbling.

[A]

What about. And I love that because people have their own friends in mind. The power of having boundaries. This whole idea that when you say yes to somebody, make sure you're not saying no to yourself. But so many people have trouble saying no in a healthy way, especially if that person who's listening is more of a naturally agreeable person. How would you recommend or how do we know when to push for what we want and when to override our feelings for others?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's a tricky one, isn't it? Because often there is that sort of agreeable nature that will sort of make you more inclined to sort of behave in that way and compromise and things like that. But I think it's also reinforced by this idea that, you know, people pleasing is kind of being nice and. But if you don't hold boundaries, it's really distinct from being a nice person. And in some ways, to be the best person you can be, you need to have boundaries and assertiveness skills. You need to be able to advocate for yourself and you need to be able to advocate for other people too, who can't necessarily. So a lot of what happens in therapy is the teaching of assertiveness skills and that ability to say no. But a big portion of that learning is not just the techniques for, you know, maybe the broken record technique or something or, you know, different things that you can actually say. But a big portion of that is actually looking at. At feelings. And often the, the Struggle isn't in the word no. The struggle is in the feeling that comes with saying that. And often it's a sense of guilt, right? And maybe that's a template that started early in life because you were taught to put everybody else's needs first or, you know, just do exactly what your caregivers wanted you to do, which made sense at the time, right? That was. That was a highly adaptive thing to do at the time. But now you're an adult and you're not dependent. You're not completely dependent on the various relationships that you have with people. You have this new sense of agency and the ability to choose certain things. But comes with that. What comes with that is the responsibility then to advocate yourself and hold healthy boundaries. So when we're in that kind of process, what I'm saying is that the feeling that comes with saying no is often an echo of the past. And so if you, you know, if you, gosh, if you had the audacity to say no to your own mother or something as a child, and then you might be punished for that, you would feel guilty, right? Or you would feel frightened or whatever those feelings were at the time. And that association doesn't necessarily just disappear just because you turned 18 and started having more adult relationships with people that will still be there, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to then act in line with that feeling. So that feeling might not be appropriate or proportionate to the situation today. And so a lot of the work that I would do in helping people to kind of start saying no and when they need to, and things like that is about not expecting that guilt feeling to disappear before you're willing to hold the boundary, but being willing to have that feeling and take it with you.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, I think this was a really important one for me to include in the book, really, because I feel like, you know, the details change in every situation, but the general theme is the same, right that we all want to make the best decisions for ourselves and take the right path. And it's all sort of implicit with this idea that there is a right path and that you'll know when you're on it because you won't have any regrets or there won't be any costs to what you're doing, no losses. And it's just not true. You know, whatever path you take and whatever choices you make, there will be costs and things that you might look back and say, oh, I want, you know, I wonder if that would have been good. Or there will be regrets. But it's choosing as you sort of set your goals for the future, it's choosing the regrets that you know you can live with. So I think as long as you're following your values and they're really simple, I think I include it in both books actually, because it's something that I just, I use all the time for myself. So every few months I'll do these really simple values exercises that just indicate when you've kind of been pulled off course from what matters most to you, that you can pull things back in line. And it's really simple. You can just get a piece of paper if you're doing it on your own and you split it up into the different areas of your life. Maybe, I don't know, parenting, marriage, friendships, health, lifelong learning, creativity, exercise, all These different things and you could put them all in different kind of squares. And in, in each square you then put down maybe just a few words or a sentence about what matters most to you about that area of your life. And that's not what you want to happen to you. It's who you want to be in that area. So how you want to show up for those people or that part of you, or how you want to be in good times and bad there and what you want to represent. So it might just be a few words and you can rate that just simply kind of out of 10, you know how important it is to you. So 10 out of 10 being the most, zero, not at all. And then you can rate it again, but this time how much I feel I'm living in line with those values in the last couple of weeks. So what you get then is this kind of grid with all these numbers. And it's just an indication of where to focus your attention. Because if you've got an area of your life that seems to matter most to you, so it's 10 out of 10 important, but you've rated it as a 2 out of 10 in how you're living in line with it at the moment, then that's just a sort of a sign, isn't it? To say, look over here for a minute. Because you've left this one behind and it's not a source of self criticism because life does that, right? So you can't fill all of those all of the time. It's pretty much impossible. It's all about that to ing and froing and the balancing act, right? So while my sort of idea of being present as a parent is, you know, super, super important, then inevitably when some big project at work happens or, you know, releasing a book or something and there's lots going on, I'll notice I'm being pulled away. And if I sit down and do that exercise, I know that the score will be kind of lower on, on the home side and I know that I'll want to correct that, that, you know, get closer to that side and, and so it's just an indication to kind of shift. And I think it's a real, especially for working parents, I think it's a real sort of fallacy, this idea that that balance is some sort of sweet spot that you find and then stay there and everything's perfect. It's much more. I don't know if you, if you're on a sort of balancing beam or something like that, the balancing Is this constant to ing and froing that as you notice you're going too far one way you shift and then you go the other way and then you shift and come the other way. So. And I feel like life is a bit like that. That. And you can do that as long as you stay aware of where you're being pulled from. Because a lot of people come to therapy and they don't really know what the problem is. They just know that everything's kind of out of sorts, they're not happy with it, everything feels pointless. And. And a lot of those things become much clearer when people do a simple values exercise like that because they see that things that really matter to them are not being addressed or not being looked at enough because something else has pulled them away.

[A]

Dr. Jill, I want to thank you for taking your time and thank you for sharing your talent with our community. To end this episode, I asked this question. At a core, our show really is about learning. And I'm just out of curiosity, is there one thing that you are personally learning about or studying that has that lights you up that has you particularly excited?

[B]

Yeah, well, I can see that. The new book that I got recently actually for you, it's called Talking with a Map. It's about cognitive analytic therapy. So I talk about cognitive analytic therapy a fair bit in my work and it's a really lovely approach that is fascinating and it's about how the relationships you have in your early life set a template so they are then reflected in your adult relationships. But because it's no longer a child parent relationship, it's an adult to adult relationship, it causes disruptions and. And blocks and you end up, you know when people say I'm doing the same thing over and over again and I don't know why and I just can't stop doing it. And it causes, you know, causes arguments or it causes problems in our relationship. And it's just this beautiful way of mapping out what happens and the details change each time, but the theme and the cycle stays the same and it's a way of beginning to break those cycles. So therapy itself is really about relationships, but this guy has taken the sort of analytical approach to that and applied it to sort of everyday conversations. Yeah, I've just started.

[A]

But yeah, where could people stay in touch with you? Speaking of that, go deeper in your work or stay connected. Maybe social media.

[B]

Can people go Instagram or YouTube? My handle is just Dr. Julie. So yeah, both of those are a great way. Or the book. Both books are available wherever you get your books in England or America or whatever. Lots of languages available, so on. On my Instagram actually there's a link in my bio which takes you to all the different places where you can buy them.

[A]

Oh perfect. And as always everyone, we'll put those links in the show notes also as well which I know many of you go to. So that'[e-mail] not Dr. Julie. I want to thank you everyone go get their copy of Open when and I always recommend people get two or three copies, one for yourself and then one or two to gift everyone. Thank you for listening. As always, you could find more ways to fuel your your mind's potential on our YouTube channel join 1.8 million subscribers there where we also post the extended versions. If you're listening to this on audio, we keep it to 20 minutes but you'll get another 15 minutes of this conversation. I highly recommend you go to YouTube and make sure you subscribe and leave a comment. I speech read every single one and so let me know what you think. This is your brain coach, Jim Kwik. Until next time be limitless.