"Penis Envy" (w/ John Waters)

Summary

Las Culturistas “Penis Envy” w/ John Waters (May 13, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this high-energy, delightfully off-kilter episode, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang are joined by legendary filmmaker and icon of transgressive art, John Waters. Together, they dig into the subcultures and seismic shifts in taste that shaped John’s career—from the Beatnik era to present-day pop culture. The conversation blends irreverent humor with candid reflection on fame, artistic evolution, and the enduring power of “filth.” Waters’s recent 80th birthday, thoughts on cult classics, pop-cultural respectability, and generational change all feature prominently, while the hosts and guest riff on everything from LSD to P-Town to the politics of “bad taste.” The episode explodes with wit, with classic lines and sharp observations at every turn.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Waters at 80: From Underground Legend to Pop-Culture Fixture

• Waters’s milestone: John recently turned 80 and describes being “overhyped,” with strangers yelling “Happy Birthday” on the NYC subway.
  • Quote: “I was so overhyped that people were yelling Happy Birthday to me on the subway. Strangers.” (04:28)
• Touring: Maintained a carny, showman spirit, having done nearly 60 shows last year including a blitz of birthday performances. (04:40–05:01)
• On late-life respectability: Waters is amused by his mainstream acceptance, claiming, “I’m so respectable I could puke.” (12:05)

Cult Classics, Bad Reviews, and the Evolution of Taste

• Career built on bad reviews: Waters reflects on how negative press built his legend, and how the weight of reviews has changed.
  • Quote: “I built a career on bad reviews. Now when I get good ones, I’m shocked.” (05:09)
• Cult classic curse: He laments that in the industry, “cult classic” is code for “lost money,” and that no executive cares if a film becomes beloved decades later.
  • Quote: “A cult classic is the worst thing you can say when you’re trying to get financing. That means five smart people liked it and it lost money.” (07:08)
• Hairspray as subversive mainstream: Waters calls it “the most devious” of his films for embedding radical ideas in a family-friendly package.
  • Quote: “It’s the most devious because it snuck in... Racists even like it. They’re so stupid.” (08:18)

Representation, Drag Culture, and Changing Audiences

• Waters on Fox News and Republicans: Despite diverging politics, he notes book sales skyrocket after Fox appearances. The hosts joke about Republicans running a “drag show” at every event.
  • Quote: “They all look like elderly porn stars.” (11:16)
• Respectability and Transgression: Waters says he feels “no revenge” about his own respectability: “Things change.” (12:05–12:16)

How a Film Becomes Cult—and the Persistence of Outsider Audiences

• Pink Flamingos’ gradual success: Opened city by city, taking years to build its audience. “It took two years for Pink Flamingos to open around the country.” (12:25)
• Mainstream vs. cult: Hairspray was a hit; Crybaby and Serial Mom were critical but not financial successes, and Waters has “never gotten profit participation” from either. (13:11–13:16)
• On meeting stars: Johnny Depp and Patty Hearst both worked with him to break free of public personas. (13:46)

Waters on Cultural Shifts and the Media Landscape

• The Internet’s leveling effect: “You don’t have to go anywhere anymore. You can stay where you are and make it better.” (07:55)
• Media legacy: “The only person left I want to meet is Eminem. And he still hasn’t called me. And I’ve said it for two years.” (32:23)

Influences: Beatniks, LSD, and Learning Taste

• Beatniks as culture awakening: Life magazine’s coverage of beatniks made him crave “bongos, dirty sweatshirts, poetry, interracial couples.” (24:33–25:27)
  • Quote: “Poetry. Oh, coffee houses. Interracial couples. Howls. City Lights Bookshop, North Beach. Allen Ginsberg and his boyfriend Peter. That was the first queer beatniks.” (24:49)
• First LSD experiences: Took Sandoz acid in 1964, “the best acid I ever took in my whole life.” Explains recommending acid only to older people. (26:12–26:47)
• On modern psychedelics: Dismisses “microdoses these young pussies take” and jokes about Timothy Leary’s asshole. (26:53–27:04)
• Bad taste, good taste: Parents drilled “good taste” into him, but bad taste “is just compensating for the thing you were lacking.” (51:33)

Queer Sexuality, Porn, and “Penis Envy”

• Penis envy and gender: Waters riffs on trends in sexuality and the idea that “penis envy is making a comeback,” referencing both Freud and contemporary sexual politics. (27:58)
• On queer porn preferences: Discusses how butch lesbians watch gay male porn, speculating on “penis envy” and the search for “safety” in sexual media. (29:00–30:11)
  • Quote: “They said they want to have the big dicks themselves and imagine it. I guess. I don’t know if that’s true.” (29:33)

Friendships, Loyalty, and Protecting Privacy

• Long-standing friendships: Waters treasures friendships lasting over decades—“I have great friends that are not famous... I don’t trust people that don’t have old friends.” (34:59)
• Guarding personal life: “Personal life. Nobody knows. I don’t hide it, but none of the boyfriends I have want to be in the bro.” (36:41)
• On not talking dirt: He never reveals details about friends, boyfriends, or others, emphasizing kindness in public conversation. (38:20)

Art, Filth, and Protecting Transgression

• Filth Elder and the “Pope of Trash”: Waters prefers the title “filth elder,” only embracing “Pope of Trash” because William Burroughs coined it. (46:33)
• On young imitators: “I don’t like the work. So they’re just trying to be shocking without being funny or witty.” (47:41)
• Heart behind the filth: Insists his films are “making fun of things I loved, not that I hated.” (48:14–48:25)

Hairspray and the Power of Joyful Self-Acceptance

• Tracy Turnblad as every outsider: “Characters Tracy stands for anybody ever being hassled for being different in any kind of way... They exaggerate it and win.” (49:41)
• First childhood rebellion: The first record your parents hate forms “the beginning of the soundtrack of your life.” (51:19)

Aging, Culture Wars, and Shifting Lines

• On fashion’s rules: Retains “right-wing” habits around seasonal clothing. “You can’t wear white shoes after Labor Day.” (52:03)
• Metal concerts and generational relevance: Still attends heavy metal shows—“I just like to look at the kids. I’m always the oldest person there.” (54:39)
• On “camp” as passé: “That word was over after Susan Sontag wrote about it... Then it became trash, then filth, now it’s just American humor.” (56:07)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “A cult classic is the worst thing you can say when you’re trying to get financing. That means five smart people liked it, and it lost money.” — John Waters (07:08)
• “I’m so respectable I could puke.” — John Waters (12:05)
• “They all look like elderly porn stars.” — John Waters on Fox News women (11:16)
• “If they use something against you, own it, grab it, say, ‘Yes, I am,’ and then make it worse.” — John Waters on self-acceptance, Hairspray (49:41)
• “Personal life. Nobody knows.” — John Waters (36:41)
• “Beatniks became hippies, hippies became punks. Still, now I’m a beat; I went back to being a beatnik.” — John Waters (25:52)
• “I never say mean things about people. I learned a long time ago—then I sit next to them at a dinner.” — John Waters (38:20)
• “I just like to see the energy of it... I hate old people my age that say, ‘We had more fun.’ No, you didn’t, you just don’t know what’s going on.” — John Waters (54:44–55:19)
• “Camp... that word was over after Susan Sontag wrote about it. Now it’s just American humor.” — John Waters (56:07)
• “I don’t trust people that don’t have old friends.” — John Waters (34:59)
• “Old chickens make good soup.” — John Waters (70:43)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:09–05:01: John on turning 80, being overhyped, reacting to his birthday
• 06:00–07:11: Impact and meaning of “cult classic” status
• 08:09–08:51: Hairspray as the subversive mainstream film—PG rating shock
• 12:01–13:46: Reflections on respectability, profit participation, working with celebrities
• 24:33–25:52: John’s early cultural influences—beatniks, Life magazine, poetry
• 26:12–27:18: LSD stories, 1960s acid compared to today’s microdoses
• 27:58–30:11: “Penis envy,” queer porn tastes, sexuality, and “bonus holes”
• 34:59–36:41: Lifelong friendships and the importance of old friends
• 49:41–51:19: Hairspray’s meaning, self-acceptance, and the soundtrack of rebellion
• 56:07–56:26: Debate on “camp” culture and its evolution
• 66:32–69:33: The “I Don’t Think So, Honey” segment—John’s personal pet peeves, delivered in rapid-fire comedic style

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Memorable/Classic Moments

• Bowen’s tale of the “bonus hole” jacket mishap (02:14–02:48)
• John joking about celebrity “cumrags” as merch (47:01)
• The filth and wit of Waters’s “I Don’t Think So, Honey” rant (68:37)
• Candid discussion of fashion policing by parents, and old-school etiquette (52:03–52:14)
• Reflections on “institutionalization” and mental health—Waters and Bette Davis: “She belongs in an institution, and I don’t mean marriage.” (31:03)

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Tone & Language

The episode is jubilant, raunchy, and affectionate. Rogers and Yang’s questions are infused with personal connection and fan giddiness, while Waters’s answers maintain his signature sly, subversive charm. The jokes come fast, the conversation is peppered with cultural references, and the affection between the hosts and Waters is palpable. Despite the focus on “filth,” there’s a current of thoughtfulness and generosity underlying the transgressive banter, showing respect for both outsider and mainstream culture.

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Final Takeaway

This Las Culturistas episode with John Waters is a master class in cultural subversion, queer history, and the joys (and dangers) of evolving taste. Waters—as provocateur, mentor, filth elder, and now a respected institution—makes the case for never taking oneself too seriously and always championing the outsider with style, wit, and a filthy sense of humor.

Transcript

[Matt Rogers]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

Oh I see my. Oh my.

[Matt Rogers]

Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture?

[John Waters]

Yes.

[Matt Rogers]

Goodness.

[Bowen Yang]

Wow.

[Matt Rogers]

Las Culturistas.

[Bowen Yang]

Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. Welcome to the Cavalcade of Perversion.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, I'm so excited. I'm wearing my Seth Bogart merch For our guest. This is what they sold at the Academy Museum, which.

[Bowen Yang]

Come on.

[Matt Rogers]

Which was 18 rooms. Oh my God. How are you up on the Cause I did my research on the exhibit or on the exit.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, did you see the exhibit?

[Matt Rogers]

I did indeed go to the exhibit.

[Bowen Yang]

It was fab.

[Matt Rogers]

You went.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I did go.

[Matt Rogers]

Amazing.

[Bowen Yang]

It's a major day and also I feel like the spirit of the guest was on the New York City streets today because I'm walking down the street and I'm wearing sort of a jacket that I didn't realize had holes in it. And so medication I was holding in my jacket fell out. Just beta blockers felt like anxiety meds fell on the street and a woman ran up. A crazy woman with a like A. Like a pin. Like a clothes pin. Ran up and said, do you need a clothes pin? And I was like. And I was like, what? And she goes, for your hole. And I was like, okay. Today is the day John Waters is on.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, my God.

[Bowen Yang]

Because a woman just ran up to me with a big clothespin and offered it for me to have for my hole. Beau for your hole. I was like, if this isn't a John Waters film, absolutely it would need to have been a lot bigger. I think everything would have needed to be more outsized.

[Matt Rogers]

Did you pick up your meds?

[Bowen Yang]

I got them. Don't worry, everyone. We're okay.

[Matt Rogers]

This is so wonderful. He just celebrated his 80th birthday.

[Bowen Yang]

Happy birthday.

[Matt Rogers]

Zan is going to Extremes Tour. He's going to Fire island for the first time in America.

[Bowen Yang]

It sure is. You're going to see him at the Ice Palace.

[Matt Rogers]

He's now part of the, I guess, turf war, if you want to call it that, between Fire island and Provincetown. But he's a P Town guy.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, yeah, you are. Kind of like showing your cards there.

[John Waters]

Wow.

[Matt Rogers]

I don't really know what else to say. He's my favorite director ever. I've said this on record. I had a hard time picking between Female Trouble and Multiple Maniacs in the Criterion Closet.

[Bowen Yang]

And what did you choose?

[Matt Rogers]

I chose Multiple Maniacs because it's the most shocking movie still of all time to me because of what Mink Stolen Divine do in the church. If you know, you know. Oh, my God. And I was watching Serial mom on the plane yesterday for the first time in years. And that is a perfect movie.

[Bowen Yang]

It sure is.

[Matt Rogers]

Perfect film. Yeah, it's. Oh, my God. And I had a sex dream about Johnny Depp.

[Bowen Yang]

Johnny Depp Today, not even from Crybaby.

[Matt Rogers]

I had a sex dream about Matthew Lillard.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, that's just gonna happen.

[Matt Rogers]

That's just gonna happen. But he was like. He had, like, a dark beard, and he was just all muscly, which I always.

[Bowen Yang]

I love the Lillard.

[Matt Rogers]

I love the Lillard. Well, he's my favorite. He's here. Everyone, please welcome John Waters.

[John Waters]

Thank you very much, and happy birthday again. Thank you. I know my birthday. My God. I was so overhyped that people were yelling Happy Birthday to me on the subway. Strangers.

[Bowen Yang]

What more could you ask for?

[Matt Rogers]

What's the appropriate level of hype for your 80th birthday?

[John Waters]

Well, I did 59 shows on the road last year, but I did nine birthday shows, I think, in, like, 10 days or something. So it was. I Was, I'm a carny, I'm on

[Matt Rogers]

the road, but the math works out. Eight shows. No. What is it?

[John Waters]

Yeah. Well, I think it was seven or eight in nine days. I forget. But I did. I was every day doing a different city. It was great.

[Matt Rogers]

But you don't. But I feel like you maybe you're a little bit allergic to, like, over praise.

[John Waters]

Right?

[Matt Rogers]

And this is mostly what this podcast is.

[John Waters]

Well, no, I'm not. I'm just used to. I built a career on bad reviews. Now when I get good ones, I'm shocked. I take them with no irony. Like when the Academy Awards had a museum. How would that ever be possible?

[Bowen Yang]

You weren't checking for me before.

[John Waters]

But it was so great. It was wonderful.

[Bowen Yang]

Amazing.

[John Waters]

I don't feel like Janis Joplin when she went back to her high school reunion after she was famous and people were still mean to her footage.

[Matt Rogers]

They were still mean to her.

[John Waters]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

No one could get.

[John Waters]

Which is kind of funny. They thought she was gonna go in and be like, ha, ha, showed you. And they were still hateful, high ugly, basically. They didn't say that. They didn't say that, but they acted like that.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, they felt it. They thought it.

[Matt Rogers]

But are people still mean to you from back in the day?

[John Waters]

Never. The people that were mean to me then didn't matter. We put them in the ads. We put the bad quotes in the ads.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, but then you'll never put the good quotes now in anything necessarily, Right?

[John Waters]

Oh, sure, we would. We would put them on when my screenplay books came out. But we did publish on the back. The only quote was from the New York Times for Desperate Living, which Criterion is putting out in 4K very soon. But the quote was, you can look far and wide and you'll never find. But you could look far and wide to find a film this ugly. But really, why would you. That was the New York Times quote. And that's on the only thing on the back of the screenplay book.

[Matt Rogers]

That's wonderful.

[Bowen Yang]

Some of the bad reviews are written the most elegantly, I feel. You know what I mean?

[John Waters]

It's like sometimes bad reviews mattered. Today, it doesn't really hurt you that much.

[Bowen Yang]

Or does it help?

[John Waters]

But they just don't have the power they used to like it used to. If you were an art film, you got a rave review in the New York Times. It was a hit.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[John Waters]

Today it doesn't mean it's a hit. If it's the bad one. It's still a bomb.

[Bowen Yang]

Right.

[Matt Rogers]

But then our friends, we have Friends who have made what I think were immediately considered future cult classics. Our friends Josh Sharp and Aaron Jackson made a movie called Dick's the Musical.

[John Waters]

Yes, I thought.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, you did.

[John Waters]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Bowen Yang]

Starring Bowen as God.

[John Waters]

But the thing is, a cult classic is the worst thing you can say when you're trying to get financing. That means five smart people liked it and it lost money. Serial mom was a failure when it came out. And the executive, that he doesn't care that it's a hit. Twenty years later, he was fired. Cause the movie didn't make money.

[Bowen Yang]

Right? Yeah. That's all that matters.

[Matt Rogers]

Do you keep in touch with him?

[John Waters]

No, I bought a house with the money he gave me.

[Bowen Yang]

There you go.

[Matt Rogers]

He got something out of it. He got something. He lost his job, but he wouldn't have been happy.

[John Waters]

No, but he was fair. And, you know, it's just like, my movies are weird. They test it. They go to Mid America to test it. Why? That's not where they're gonna play the best.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, but you know what, though? The person that needs those movies in Mid Americ, like, thank God they went out and tested there. They get to say, I got to really find my freak.

[John Waters]

But now it's a different world. When I go everywhere, my audience is. If it's in Iowa or New York, they're the same. They're smart, they dress well, they've seen every movie because you don't have to go anywhere anymore. You can stay where you are and make it better.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, 100%.

[Matt Rogers]

I feel like there is something about maybe hairspray doing so well. That's like the punkiest thing you ever.

[John Waters]

It's the most devious because it's snuck in. It plays in Florida in grade schools, and nobody bitches. Two men singing a love song, encouraging interracial dating. Racists even like it. They're so stupid.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

Wow. So I was reading that you were initially. Were you shocked by the PG rating or were you just like, I can't believe we made something?

[John Waters]

No, I was shocked by it just because it was divine. And I. And then Nuala, at the time, was shocked, too. They wanted me to put the word shit in so we'd get a PG13 at least. I said, no, let's keep it. That's the shock that it is pg.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

This is the race we're running.

[Matt Rogers]

Because I even saw Hairspray for the first time in the seventh grade.

[John Waters]

Well, that's fine.

[Matt Rogers]

There you go.

[John Waters]

Perfectly. You should see it at any age. That movie's fine. I Think it would get a G today?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, you would get a G today. But I just remember it being. Cause I think that was my first technical exposure. And it was when, like, they're playing. It's when the woman's holding the sign up that says falsies. And I was like, oh, there's something different about this movie.

[John Waters]

And Criterion is putting it out now. But we have the side. The scenes that were cut out where Tracy's mean, where she's mean to the kids that work in the drug shop. She gets a hickey in the car and says, hope he doesn't have blue balls, and breaks into Amber's house, reads her diary and dyes her hair in her own house. Stuff that wisely got cut out because it goes so far away from the nice girl that Tracy was. Right.

[Bowen Yang]

But now I want to see the movie of Alt Tracy.

[John Waters]

Yeah, of alt Tracy.

[Bowen Yang]

Hairspray in the Other Dimension.

[Matt Rogers]

Do you and Adam Shankman still keep in touch?

[John Waters]

Yeah, some. Yeah, definitely.

[Matt Rogers]

So Matt's in an Adam Shankman film now.

[John Waters]

Oh, good. Which one?

[Bowen Yang]

The Stop that Train.

[John Waters]

Wow. Great.

[Bowen Yang]

It's gonna be really fun. It's real. I mean, it just. You forget about a time when movies just went for the fucking joke in every single scene. That's what this is.

[John Waters]

Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to it. I'll pay to see it. That's what you do for your friends. You pay to see it. The Friday night it opens in a theater.

[Bowen Yang]

Absolutely. It's exciting to be excited about a movie coming out.

[Matt Rogers]

Absolutely. But on that note, it's like with the Dick the Musical thing, as it came out, as it screened at Tiff Midnight Madness, people were like, this is a future cult classic. And like, you say, Josh and Erin were like, but wait a minute. We wanted this to be, like, a current hit now.

[John Waters]

Future cult classic means it bombs.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. And it will take, like, years of fermenting or whatever or a patina or something.

[John Waters]

And you can't make a cult movie happen. I mean, I remember when Mommie Dearest, after it came out, they tried to make it a midnight movie. But why did not drag queens go to the Melania documentary dressed as her and shout out stuff like Rocky Horror? Wouldn't that have been the most hilarious protest?

[Bowen Yang]

Take it back from them.

[John Waters]

So great. It would have been. Well, Republicans have female. Female impersonators.

[Matt Rogers]

Mm. It's drag.

[John Waters]

Yeah. It's a gender effort because they're women underneath.

[Bowen Yang]

I can't believe what the drag show that happens at every Republican Event now.

[John Waters]

Well, they all look the same. They all look like elderly porn stars.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Waters]

But I do Fox. Whenever I go on the shows, they're nice to me, and I sell so many books when I do Fox, it's amazing.

[Matt Rogers]

Wow. Are you seeing where the sales are coming from? No.

[John Waters]

I mean, I don't care, you know, if they bought the book. It's certainly not encouraging what they're saying. And they were nice to me on the show. I don't have any trouble. But all the. Everybody that works there looks the same.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, yeah. They all look a little odd.

[John Waters]

Hot. You know, women that look like. I know. People said to me, did you ever go to Jeffrey Epstein's office? What would I do there? I'd be home. Pussy Island. I would be hiding under a desk.

[Bowen Yang]

It would have been duck.

[John Waters]

No, I didn't go there.

[Bowen Yang]

No shared interests. Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Do you feel like you have this air of respectability now as you walk around?

[John Waters]

Yes. I'm so respectable I could puke. I said that at the Academy Awards Museum. Yes, but it's great. It's n. It's nothing. I'm not. I don't take it as revenge or anything. I think it's just things change.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

At what point did things become cult classics to you in terms of certain films? And I know that's a dirty term.

[John Waters]

Well, when Pink Flamingos came out, right away, it became a midnight thing, so I could tell then it was working. That was totally by audiences. We went to each city at a separate time and did one city at a time. This was before video, before Internet or anything. So you'd go to a city, would start one day a week, then two days, three days, four days. So it took two years for Pink Flamingos to open around the country.

[Matt Rogers]

But is there a rolling timeline with, like, Hairspray doing great as it comes out, but then, like. But then, like, Crybaby and then Serial Mom?

[John Waters]

Hairspray was a hit for real?

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, yes, yes.

[John Waters]

Crybaby was definitely not.

[Matt Rogers]

But then was there this, like, delayed sort of like, push of, like, Cryberry, then become that, then becomes a cult hit, and then Cereal mom becomes a cult. Like, do you get what I'm saying?

[John Waters]

Yes, but I've never gotten profit participation from Crybaby or Serial Mom. They've never broken even.

[Matt Rogers]

Wow. Wow. Interesting.

[John Waters]

But they cost a lot of money.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, of course.

[Bowen Yang]

I was wondering about. Just because you had you talk about building a career on bad reviews, et cetera. They accumulate, and then suddenly you're working with Johnny Depp on Crybaby. And he was truly like, you know, Leo before Leo, like the. The marquee idol. Does a star at that level seek you out because he liked your work or him you went to?

[John Waters]

Because I knew he was like, Justin Bieber at the time was on the COVID of every teen magazine, but he hated that image. Stick with us. We'll get rid of that.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

We'll fuck it up a little bit.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[John Waters]

It's the same way Patty Hearst made a movie with me. She was sick of being a kidnap victim.

[Bowen Yang]

You just.

[John Waters]

Everything changes. I went to a big, big fancy dinner where she was honored. I'm the man sitting at her table. I said, how do you know Patricia? And he said, well, she robbed the Hiberian bank, which I owned, and he paid $5,000 to have dinner with me.

[Bowen Yang]

I love it.

[Matt Rogers]

She robbed his bank.

[John Waters]

Well, when she was in the sla, I mean, she didn't think it up. She didn't know where the bank was. But still, I mean, it's amazing how things change. It's the same way as what? Me getting picked by the National Registry picked Pink Flamingos as a great American film. What was the scene in that screening that made him decide that? Do my balls, mama. I mean, what line? The singing, asshole. I'm trying to think what particular.

[Bowen Yang]

I would think both of those things.

[John Waters]

Well, maybe, but that means they've got a pretty good sense of humor.

[Matt Rogers]

They place that movie above the Graduate.

[John Waters]

That was a variety of hundred best comedies. And I was there with Charlie Chaplin. It was hilarious. Because when Variety, when the movie first came out, we got one of the best bad reviews ever from Variety. And they later said that they were wrong, which was very funny. And I love Variety. I've been reading it since I was 15 years old.

[Bowen Yang]

Do you remember what they initially had said?

[John Waters]

Oh, yeah. The most, beyond a doubt, the most disgusting film in film history. Something really good.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. Something very declarative and perfect. Marquee.

[John Waters]

Yeah. It wasn't pussy footing around. Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no, no. Direct communication.

[Matt Rogers]

I. We. You have to know. I think I even told you this when we first met, but almost every other show at SNL or every table read. We tried Sarah Sherman and I would try to write in me as any character, any old character screaming, no, Gator.

[Bowen Yang]

No.

[John Waters]

No, Gator.

[Matt Rogers]

No. From Female Trouble.

[John Waters]

That's Edith. Yeah, that's Edith.

[Matt Rogers]

And Lauren just, like, frowning at me, being like, what are you. Why are you screaming? What is this from?

[Bowen Yang]

Why? One of our great screamer.

[Matt Rogers]

And just Sarah and I bonded for the first time because we each had female children.

[John Waters]

Well, that was in Sarah's show recently.

[Matt Rogers]

I know.

[John Waters]

Which was great.

[Matt Rogers]

Did you watch the whole thing?

[John Waters]

Of course. And when am I going to host Saturday Night Live?

[Bowen Yang]

I don't know. That would be genius.

[Matt Rogers]

You would be wonderful.

[John Waters]

You lost your income with the crew. I could write. It's the only time I could ever write with somebody else.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, my gosh. I'll come back for that.

[John Waters]

All right.

[Matt Rogers]

Good.

[John Waters]

And you can do Edith.

[Matt Rogers]

I can do Edith. Wait. I've always. I've meant to ask, because I think when we met was right before Leslie Van Houten got paroled.

[John Waters]

Yeah. I don't talk about that anymore. Because I'll tell you why. And I get why you ask. There's no such person anymore. She's never gonna talk about it again. She's vanished. It's over.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes. And this actually goes back to what you're saying about. Everything changes. Like, even something as completely immoral and dark and awful and inhumane about what she was involved in and what she did.

[John Waters]

Immoral? When you're 19 and meet the biggest mad men. On this. But she never blamed him. She said it was her fault for making him a cult leader. So all I'm saying is I just don't talk about it anymore. Only because it's over. He's dead. It's not over for the victims. And nobody's saying that. Yes, I get why the victims. You cannot ask for forgiveness. If they give it, it's amazing. Like Charlie Kirk's wife. The next day, she did say she forgave who did it. That is Christian.

[Matt Rogers]

It is Christian. For better or for worse.

[John Waters]

Well, I'm just saying it's hard to do that. I'm not picking sides. If somebody killed my mother, could I ever forgive them? That's a really amazing thing. But I'm not talking about that. I'm just saying that she was paroled correctly, and she's out. There's no such person. She's never gonna talk about it.

[Matt Rogers]

It's over. It's done. And there is like. And you, as a storyteller can understand the. The ending of something. Like the resolution of something where you're like, there's nothing to talk about.

[John Waters]

There isn't. The story's been told a million times. It's a terrible story. And what point would it be for her to talk about it? There's no point.

[Matt Rogers]

I completely understand. I just was always so curious. Especially because it's. And we're not gonna talk about it anymore. But it's like, oh, it's over, it's done. And like you wrote such a beautiful essay about.

[John Waters]

Thank you. And I think that the LA Times editorial we should it is time for her to live amongst us again. Made the governor not turn it down.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[John Waters]

So the paper that made it the most notorious case in the world also amazingly, and I believe correctly ended it.

[Matt Rogers]

And I think through her, you really looked at your own sort of obsession with.

[John Waters]

Oh yeah, I was apologized for a while.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, yes, yes.

[John Waters]

And now True Crime. I mean, when we made Serial mom, that was a joke on. But now true. That was before True Crime was as popular it is. And now Cereal Mama looks like oj. It was before OJ even, but it

[Matt Rogers]

wasn't even meant to be prescient, was it? You were just kind of doing something.

[John Waters]

Well, I was parodying True Crime, definitely.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, yes. Introducing Eminem's caramel you already love now popped into a totally new texture.

[Bowen Yang]

I'd say M&M's are one of those truly iconic snacks.

[Matt Rogers]

They've just launched a brand new freeze dried innovation that brings a whole new vibe to the M and M lineup.

[Bowen Yang]

I mean, come on, what's not to love about MM's by itself?

[Matt Rogers]

And if it's freeze dried, I feel like I'm in space. M and Ms. Continues to be that girl. The crunch is unexpected in the best way.

[Bowen Yang]

Way crisper than you'd think. Like you bite into one and there's this little pop that you don't see coming from something that still tastes like classic M and M's caramel.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure, they don't look exactly like the M&Ms. You know, but they are the M and Ms. You love. They're perfect for snacking when watching television, scrolling on your phone, or settling in for a movie.

[Bowen Yang]

And I'm already thinking they'll be great to have on hand while watching the Culture Awards.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, the best part is they've got that classic MM's caramel flavor. It's available in stores now.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm gonna try one right now. Amazing. Pop. Pop. I really do like them.

[Podcast Promoter]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim G to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Who's the worst singer in the group?

[Bowen Yang]

The Worst.

[Podcast Promoter]

Yeah, me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation?

[John Waters]

The Yardbirds.

[Matt Rogers]

Right? That's the name.

[Podcast Promoter]

The Harvard Yard.

[John Waters]

But they're open.

[Matt Rogers]

Do you have a name suggestion?

[Bowen Yang]

We're open.

[Podcast Promoter]

Since you guys are middle aged, one

[John Waters]

erection,

[Podcast Promoter]

listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Waters]

Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Strayed, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges.

[Matt Rogers]

You know what I'm gonna do?

[Bowen Yang]

I'm gonna pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world fighting for our lives. All I'm gonna do is pull out what you already got inside.

[John Waters]

We're there to support and celebrate each

[Matt Rogers]

other, and that is not like a

[John Waters]

your story versus my story.

[Cheryl Strayed]

You're gonna walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just gonna put your mind over it.

[Matt Rogers]

Yep, yep, Exactly.

[Bowen Yang]

And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm gonna go through it.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Diana Maria Riva. Actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal, crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin hair you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic bs.

[John Waters]

All of a sudden, I'd had hanging

[Matt Rogers]

ness happening on my own.

[Bowen Yang]

I was like, what the hell is that?

[Matt Rogers]

I was married when I had her,

[John Waters]

so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was gonna be.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what? Sex? Dating at 45? How high can it be? Getting naked at 50 with the new guy?

[John Waters]

That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting.

[Cheryl Strayed]

They say we can't polish a turd but we're sure gonna try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and asked, how Hard Can It Be?

[John Waters]

I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Waters]

What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor iv, and on my podcast, the Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an Internet famous referee.

[Bowen Yang]

We're in the middle of a game.

[John Waters]

This linebacker. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. Time out. Look, quarterback on offense. Blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama wants you to weigh better. What? Where's she at?

[Matt Rogers]

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the

[John Waters]

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Matt Rogers]

Do you talk to Kathleen Turner still?

[John Waters]

Of course. We're great friends.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, she's one of the greats.

[John Waters]

She just played Gertrude Stein on stage.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, really?

[John Waters]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, wow. See, I don't keep. I gotta keep up with Kathleen.

[Bowen Yang]

Kathleen Turner, like, that's. She really. That's a signature presence.

[John Waters]

Kathleen's great. Good friend, funny. She doesn't suffer fools, but she's smart as well.

[Podcast Promoter]

You can tell.

[John Waters]

And a really good actress.

[Bowen Yang]

You can tell. Yeah. All right, so we have to ask you. You have your preparation.

[John Waters]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

And that is perfect. We have a question that we ask every single person that comes on the show. And that, sir, was. What was the culture that made you say culture was, for me, these early influences that made you, when you really look back on it, become John Waters or start.

[John Waters]

There was one culture only, and that was being a beatnik. When I read in Life magazine, about 10 years old, I wanted bongos day. Oh, de.

[Bowen Yang]

Ooh.

[John Waters]

You know, I went to coffee houses where they had poetry. I wanted to wear sandals, dirty sweatshirts.

[Bowen Yang]

Girls, girls.

[John Waters]

Black nylons with seams in the back. And turtlenecks. I still wear turtlenecks to this day. Poetry. Oh, coffee houses. Interracial Couples Howls. City Lights Bookshop, North Beach. Allen Ginsberg and his boyfriend Peter. That was the first queer beatniks. Junkie. William Burroughs, a junkie queer on top of it. Leroy Jones, I always loved him. And Maynard G. Krebs from Dobie Gillis, the first beatnik. And Malcolm Sowell, the most famous beatnik in Baltimore who was the star of my first movie. And I just had my first poem published in the Atlantic last month.

[Bowen Yang]

Come on.

[John Waters]

Now I'm officially a beat.

[Bowen Yang]

You're a beatnik. You made it. What was your first sort of exposure to this culture?

[John Waters]

Life magazine. When I read about beatniks, yeah. Life magazine corrupted me. I read about junkies, homosexuals, beatniks, hip. Everything Life magazine covered. And every family got. Life magazine, yeah. Wow.

[Matt Rogers]

Was this what led you to your first LSD Trust?

[John Waters]

Certainly. Beatniks became hippies, hippies became punks. Still, now I'm a beat. I went back to being a beatnik. Right? Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

But what was it?

[John Waters]

Piazzadora in Harrisbury is a beatnik and reads Howells. And Allen Ginsberg was mad and he was pissed. I asked him if I could use it.

[Matt Rogers]

Were you? Cause how old were you? How old were you on the first trip?

[John Waters]

The first acid I took was in 1964. It wasn't even illegal until 68, I believe. And they used it in a mental institution for alcoholism. And my friend worked there and he stole it.

[Matt Rogers]

And it was. Oh, he was.

[Bowen Yang]

Whoa.

[John Waters]

It was Sandoz acid. It was so strong.

[Bowen Yang]

Was it really? It was stronger then, yeah.

[John Waters]

And I never. I did it a lot then. And then I stopped. And then I did it again for my book. When I was 70 years old with Mink Stol, we took acid again. And we hadn't in 50 years. It was still good.

[Bowen Yang]

It was still good.

[John Waters]

I'd only tell old people to take it. Not young people. Stupid 60s are over. Cause now when your family's concerned, when you're old, you say, I'm not. Have dementia. I'm tripping.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I'm just.

[Matt Rogers]

And that's the last time.

[John Waters]

Yes. I would need to never do it again. And it was no like microdoses these young pussies take.

[Bowen Yang]

I know the little spray you see that people have.

[John Waters]

Timothy Leary's asshole.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, my God.

[John Waters]

It was the best acid I ever took in my whole life.

[Matt Rogers]

So I did it for the first time at the tender age of like, 27. And I still feel like I have holes in my brain.

[Bowen Yang]

Was that.

[John Waters]

Oh, so it wasn't a good experience?

[Matt Rogers]

No, we were. Not today.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, yeah, we were.

[John Waters]

It wasn't good.

[Matt Rogers]

It was a great experience. I still have a fear that I just have. It took a melon ball or to my head, and I'm like, am I less of a person now?

[Bowen Yang]

Because he's so much smarter now after it.

[John Waters]

I think you're probably better. Although Some people I took LSD with went crazy. They became drug addicts. So it didn't do that to me. I'm not saying that it's for everybody.

[Matt Rogers]

No, of course.

[John Waters]

And if you ever see even Bill, who was the head of aa, who invented it, he wanted people to take acid. Have you ever seen it online? When he says, can you see it? That's like, the one people in AA don't exactly agree with. Same way Freud was wrong about cocaine. He was right about a lot of things. And penis envy's making a comeback.

[Matt Rogers]

Penis envy is making a comeback.

[Bowen Yang]

That's a rule of culture number 30. Penis envy is making a comeback.

[Matt Rogers]

It's the whole looks maxing thing. Yeah, I connected to that. It's like there's this need for male approval and right wings.

[John Waters]

Well, it's also. Now them told me that when you go home with somebody now, you don't know what you're gonna get. They said, whatever it is, it's politically correct to call it a bonus hole.

[Bowen Yang]

It is a bonus hole.

[John Waters]

How do you talk dirty? Get that bonus hole.

[Bowen Yang]

You get my bonus hole, Dick.

[John Waters]

Cocksucker. I don't know. It used to be Shut up and Blow Me. That was the best porn title ever.

[Bowen Yang]

Shut up and blow Me.

[John Waters]

Yeah, but that's Politically Incorrect. You can't say that. And I did a photo piece of that headline, and all women bought it. Powerful women for their office.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, good.

[John Waters]

Which I loved.

[Bowen Yang]

No, I love when we get a Suck my dick from a woman.

[John Waters]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Did you ever. Did you watch Heated Rivalry, Which.

[John Waters]

Oh, yes, I did.

[Matt Rogers]

So that I feel like is appealing mostly to women.

[John Waters]

To women it is. Which is amazing to me. And I always heard, and I asked butch lesbians if this is true, and they said yes, that butch lesbians like to watch gay men's porn.

[Bowen Yang]

I don't get why, literally, my therapist is a lesbian. She every session, without fail, brings up heated rivalry to the point where I'm therapizing her. I keep being like, so you've brought it up again.

[John Waters]

And I just want to bring up their personal life.

[Bowen Yang]

But the thing is to get your money back at a certain point, I'm like. Cause she always relates in an interesting way. But she is a lesbian who's into heated rivalry.

[John Waters]

That's not hardcore. That's softcore. You're gonna watch it. And I asked why? And they said they want to have the big dicks himself and imagine it. I guess I don't know if that's true.

[Matt Rogers]

Penis envy.

[John Waters]

No.

[Matt Rogers]

Well, that's a form of penis envy

[John Waters]

for a. I don't know.

[Bowen Yang]

I think it has to do with safety, to be honest with you. I think it has to do with watching, like, a love and a sex that has nothing to do with you. And therefore it's kind of like I feel detached from it, and it's kind of nice. I think that's why so many women are fanatical about heated rivalry. Not to say that gay men aren't, but it's different. There is a. There's like a passion towards the show.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[John Waters]

Good. The new audience, they didn't count on.

[Bowen Yang]

No, And I love that. And I love that.

[John Waters]

I bet the test screenings didn't predict that.

[Matt Rogers]

No. No.

[Bowen Yang]

And did you watch Hunting Wives?

[John Waters]

No.

[Bowen Yang]

See, that was a lesbian fantasia in Texas.

[John Waters]

No. It's so hard to turn on the TV that I have to have three assistants there to help me or I'll be duct taped to my bed.

[Bowen Yang]

It's. I

[Matt Rogers]

need the same. I barely know how to work the remotes either.

[John Waters]

I yearn for three channels, rabbit ears and tinfoil. I know, because so many. It's so hard.

[Bowen Yang]

It's too much.

[John Waters]

Sonos update. When I get them, I have to go to a mental institution.

[Bowen Yang]

I have three sonos. Like you're allowed to say them.

[John Waters]

I don't think you can say. Is that politically incorrect to say?

[Bowen Yang]

You can say, send me to a mental institution. And if you can, then this show is over. If you can say that we're ending the show, we kill. How about that?

[Matt Rogers]

I still say I need to be institutionalized. And sometimes I do feel that it's a much.

[John Waters]

Bette Davis had the best line about that. When they asked her about Faye Dunaway. She said, she belongs in an institution, and I don't mean marriage.

[Matt Rogers]

My favorite Bette Davis quote is, someone asked her, how do you get into Hollywood? She goes, take fountain.

[John Waters]

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Best thing she learned.

[Bowen Yang]

And there's always the fountain.

[John Waters]

And I do take fountain. And I always think of that when I'm there. She lived on Fountain at the end in a condo. She did, I think, yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Favorite Hollywood star of all time, Lana Turner.

[John Waters]

And I'm still friends with her daughter Cheryl, the most famous juvenile delinquent in Hollywood who killed Johnny Stompanato. And I had Thanksgiving dinner one year with Cheryl, her lesbian girlfriend Lily Tomlin, and Lana Turner and myself.

[Matt Rogers]

How do you find these bank robbers? Do they come to your. Do you find.

[John Waters]

Well, Cheryl was very famous. If you look back on that case, it was one of the most famous cases of the 50s. And in one of my books, I said I wanted to meet her. And her hairdresser read it and showed her. And she called me.

[Bowen Yang]

Wow.

[Matt Rogers]

And this is just a lesser version of what you probably understood is that through this, like, we'll mention one thing or one person, and it somehow finds its way to them. And I'm like, that is dangerous. I feel like it does not necessarily. It is not necessarily a force for good for me and my mental health,

[John Waters]

you know, because it gets. Well, I've always said the only person left I want to meet is Eminem. And he still hasn't called me. And I've said it for two years.

[Matt Rogers]

Why? What's the.

[Bowen Yang]

What do you think is his. What do you think is his deal?

[John Waters]

I'm all for him.

[Matt Rogers]

Good.

[John Waters]

He's. Maybe he's better than me.

[Bowen Yang]

I highly doubt that.

[Matt Rogers]

It's because he was.

[John Waters]

He's not homophobic. He gave Elton John and David for the wedding matching gold cock rings. He's not homophobic.

[Matt Rogers]

He's not homophobic. But is that part of the fascination for you? Like, that he was so rampantly.

[John Waters]

That's, like, his record. And I used to go to this redneck bar in Baltimore where it was all white guys dressed like black rappers hung out. And every time I'd walk in, they'd play Pew Duke by Eminem as a tribute to me.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, wonderful.

[John Waters]

So every time I walk in here and I go, hi, everybody, and I'd sit down. So it was just a personal thing.

[Bowen Yang]

So did you get the Eminem of it all when he had first come out? Because I think as young gays, hearing him on the radio say things like faggot and like, you know, like whatever, like stuff like that, I think it bothered us because we had our guards up. But you at that time, hearing his music, it didn't bother you?

[Matt Rogers]

Bother you?

[John Waters]

I thought it was entertained. He was just causing trouble like we did. I don't know. Cause it was just a white person. Being a rapper was so new and people hadn't seen that and it was over the edge. But, no, I always liked him.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

You love something or someone who chafes

[John Waters]

something, who does something first and changes how we think about things, which he did do.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, absolutely. Puke.

[John Waters]

You can play the record. Maybe you can play the record at the beginning of the show. Or put it under me. Put it under.

[Matt Rogers]

It'll score.

[John Waters]

Blend it.

[Bowen Yang]

We will just lightly throughout the episode.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes, I think we can make it happen on this show. Eminem If Eminem's team people are getting this, what would you like that encounter to be? Where would you want to be? What are you guys doing?

[John Waters]

Oh, just in private. So we're not exploiting it.

[Matt Rogers]

Of course.

[John Waters]

Come to Pete town, Eminem. I'm looking for them. Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

They'll love you.

[John Waters]

I always say puke to me.

[Matt Rogers]

Please say krune puke. And this is something that you cherish, right? Like, you don't want these interactions to be for public consumption.

[John Waters]

No, no. And if he wanted to talk about, you know, it's just the kind of thing. I have met almost every famous person I ever want to meet. And I'm not bragging, but just I've been doing this. I'm 80 years old. I've been doing it for 50 years. And that's thrilling. It's exciting. And they like to meet you too. It's fun. But at the same time, I have great friends that are not famous. Many my closest friends are not famous. And I've had had for 50 years. And I don't trust people that don't have old friends.

[Matt Rogers]

Absolutely. I feel like I'm now getting to the point where my old friends are college friends, but I feel like I did a full hard reset once I got moved to New York. I feel like Matt's really good because he grew up in Long island, relatively close. Like, you still have a connection to, like, those people that, you know, I'm still.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm still.

[John Waters]

But Facebook friend, that's not a friend.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, you have to work out, you

[John Waters]

have to go out. You have to get your hair done. You have to make. Make see them in person. You have to go to their house. It's not just that it's easy to do that, but to be a real friend is work.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, it is. And I. What's that? What's that? They say, like, discomfort is. Is a. Is a friend of community. Like, in order to, like, really maintain community, you have to just make yourselves a little uncomfortable sometimes. Like, maybe you haven't seen someone in a long time, get out there to dinner and go see them. I try to see my old friends at least twice a year. And then, you know, it's funny, you say college friends are now old friends. That was technically half our life.

[Matt Rogers]

I know.

[Bowen Yang]

You know what I mean? Like, which feels like it went by like that. But, you know, I've known you half my life.

[John Waters]

I've known you.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Bowen Yang]

That's kind of wild.

[John Waters]

My best friend is Pat Moran, who's one. You know, she's cast all my movies. She cast the Wire, she's won Emmys. But. Wow.

[Matt Rogers]

Wow.

[John Waters]

We met. Cause we had the same boyfriend. And I've known her for 60 years, and we've talked every single day for 60 years.

[Bowen Yang]

So was it hard having the same boyfriend at first? Not really, no.

[John Waters]

They're both dead and we're friends.

[Matt Rogers]

Who had him last?

[John Waters]

I'm not gonna say that.

[Bowen Yang]

Who had him last?

[Matt Rogers]

I'm sorry. I really admire. This is the thing that I maybe took for granted is that you do have this wonderful protectiveness over information and people and lives.

[John Waters]

Personal life. Nobody knows.

[Matt Rogers]

Interesting.

[John Waters]

I mean, I don't hide it, but none of the people, none of the boyfriends I have want to be in the bro.

[Matt Rogers]

Exactly. And yet you're still known. You're still in the Agora. You're still like. I do find it. You were also my first exposure into what P town was.

[John Waters]

Yeah, this is my 63rd summer there.

[Bowen Yang]

I was gonna ask. Yeah. So you've seen it all there?

[John Waters]

Oh, yeah. I used to be friends with Norman Mailer. I worked in the bookshop. I waited on Robert Motherwell. I.

[Bowen Yang]

You worked in the bookshop?

[John Waters]

The Promised Land bookshop was my main job. The old one where the Porthole building is. It's a pot shop now. It's now across the street. But I worked there. And I worked before that for Molly Malone Cook and Mary Oliver. Before she was famous, she was my boss and she was huddled on the back in a pea coat, acting crazy.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Wow.

[John Waters]

But that's when I. I thought she's turned in her grave. When I had a poem published last week. Aw. No, she was greatnik. I was with her when she won the poll. Pulitzer. When she got her award or whatever award she got. Pulitzer, I think. Yeah. And so I knew him forever. And I worked in both the bookshops there. That was my education.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Did you ever do those? Cause now you have those artist residencies and those shacks on the beach.

[John Waters]

Yeah, I don't want to be out there.

[Bowen Yang]

We took the.

[John Waters]

You know, it's fun for an hour. I'm not lugging water out there.

[Matt Rogers]

No, there's no plumbing. You shit in the sand.

[John Waters]

No, thank you.

[Matt Rogers]

No, thank you.

[Bowen Yang]

We did like the Jeep tour out there.

[John Waters]

That's good.

[Bowen Yang]

I couldn't believe how far out.

[John Waters]

No, it's great, but I'm not lugging my stuff out there.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no, certainly not. Not.

[John Waters]

You Have a coyote come shit on

[Bowen Yang]

me at this juncture?

[Matt Rogers]

No, but I'm Saying like, you still expose yourself, but you are protective of others.

[John Waters]

Yes, yes. I don't tell dirt about people that don't want it. No. I never do. I never say mean things about people. I learned a long time ago. Cause then I sit next to them at a dinner.

[Bowen Yang]

Literally. Yeah. It doesn't matter when. Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And I think. Okay, and thank you for bringing this up. Because I think this is what Matt and I have learned. Cause we used to kind of speak a little too freely on this. You know what I mean?

[John Waters]

And then. You don't know. I've had to sit next to critics who gave me terrible reviews. They're uptight too.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

And they're nervous to meet you.

[John Waters]

Well, they don't want to sit next to me at dinner. It's an irresponsible host that puts you there.

[Bowen Yang]

Or it was a devious host that was doing what they want to do.

[John Waters]

But I'm fine with it.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, well, you can handle whatever.

[Matt Rogers]

You can handle whatever. I feel like there is this. I have Mr. Know it all, which I bought in Boston. I have my hard copy with me. If you will sign it later.

[John Waters]

Of course I will.

[Matt Rogers]

Thank you.

[John Waters]

But was that when allegianced me to change a flat? And I have a flat, which I couldn't do. If I had to change a flat tire or die. I'd have to die.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

That's the thing.

[John Waters]

If I had to open the hood of my car or die, I'd.

[Bowen Yang]

So have you always chosen partners that this is a thing they can do handy.

[John Waters]

They can all do it better than I can.

[Bowen Yang]

Right?

[John Waters]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

We've had. We've had conversations here with other. With gay men of all. Of all stripes who are like all persuasions. All persuasions who are like, if I'm forced to do anything manual, like, I choose death.

[Bowen Yang]

No, if the grid goes down, we were set. Like, a couple friends of ours, they're talking about getting guns for when the grid goes down.

[John Waters]

Well, you know, there's gays against guns, which I'm for. But then I saw somebody with a shirt on and said, give fags guns, which made me laugh.

[Bowen Yang]

That made you laugh more.

[John Waters]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, these gays are like, when the grid goes down, we're both getting guns. I'm like, babe, when the grid goes down, I'm outta here.

[John Waters]

I'll shoot myself in my leg if I had a gun.

[Bowen Yang]

You're never the only one that's shot.

[John Waters]

I've shot a gun once. A biker, a straight biker I know took me in his Cadillac limousine, broken down thing. And we shot machine guns in the woods. And it was fun.

[Matt Rogers]

Your first gun was a machine gun only gun.

[Bowen Yang]

First and only gun.

[John Waters]

Listen, with a real biker too. A straight guy I knew.

[Bowen Yang]

And you. So you knew him enough that.

[John Waters]

Well, he invited me.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, sure.

[John Waters]

And it wasn't like. No, I blew him. It wasn't like that.

[Bowen Yang]

No, it's just machine guns in the woods.

[John Waters]

He's in one of my movies. He's in Desperate Living. He plays eater. He has the line, you can suck my royal hemorrhoids, you fat pig. That's his only line in the movie.

[Bowen Yang]

The only line in cinema.

[Matt Rogers]

And what year was this that you shot the gun?

[John Waters]

77.

[Matt Rogers]

Okay. So at that point you'd already like, given gun. You'd already used guns in your films.

[John Waters]

In Pink Flamingos, that gun shooting is a real gun with real bullets in it that just the unit photographer happened to own. We had no safety. I don't know. We're lucky, you know?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[John Waters]

I mean, there was nobody standing in front of him when he shot it.

[Matt Rogers]

Sure, sure.

[John Waters]

The vine certainly was not pistol safety. It was not one of his top things at the time.

[Matt Rogers]

And did you have an intimacy coordinator on that snow?

[John Waters]

I always imagine when an int. Do you mind eating shit? Is that okay? And intimacy.

[Bowen Yang]

How do you feel eating the shit?

[John Waters]

Even in my last movie, a dirty shame. All the extra had to make out and hump with each other for hours every night. They didn't know each other. They just started laughing. I read a thing about Pasolini Salo where they were underage and nude in it. And they said, we had the best time. When he'd say cut, we'd just start laughing. We had the best time.

[Matt Rogers]

What I will appreciate intimacy coordinators, let's say on Pink Flamingos they would have said, this is how. This is how I would eat shit. Just so you have a way in and you don't have to second guess.

[John Waters]

Did you ever work with.

[Matt Rogers]

I've worked with one in.

[John Waters]

And what was the scene that they had to advise you on?

[Matt Rogers]

Right. So you're gonna love this. It was just two guys making out at the club. And I was like, I've had experience doing this.

[John Waters]

Was it a stranger?

[Matt Rogers]

It was. No.

[John Waters]

Was it an extra?

[Matt Rogers]

It was my love interest in the movie.

[John Waters]

Oh, so it was someone that you work with every day. That's just called acting, right? Stunt work, maybe.

[Matt Rogers]

But they did give, like, actually good, like blocking, like camera, sort of.

[John Waters]

That's different than. And this is not a lot of time.

[Matt Rogers]

Not a Lot of tongue. And I think this was something that I. Maybe I appreciated that knowledge. Right. And it's. I think I wasn't. I obviously would never wish an intimacy coordinator upon you. I would never want you to.

[John Waters]

They'd run.

[Matt Rogers]

They'd run.

[John Waters]

They'd just run.

[Matt Rogers]

They would run.

[John Waters]

We had, for my last novel, my only novel, Liarmouth, have to give it to a sensitivity editor. And she never called us back. We could never find her again and she quit. And so we didn't. She didn't exist. No, there was. It was a famous one, and she was a big editor. And she refused to respond after we sent it to her.

[Matt Rogers]

But then it got published.

[John Waters]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

So then it was fine.

[John Waters]

I had a great editor, Jonathan Galassi, who had faith in his own filth.

[Bowen Yang]

Maybe she was like, if I were to impose sensitivity on this, it would lose what makes it special. So why would I do that? They never think that way.

[John Waters]

They wouldn't have a job.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. And now a quick break from our sponsor, Vital Proteins.

[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

Huge thanks again to our sponsor, Vital Proteins.

[Matt Rogers]

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[Bowen Yang]

One thing. Cause just to speak on the intimacy coordinator. Did you use it for fire, anti violence?

[Matt Rogers]

I use them for violence.

[John Waters]

Really?

[Matt Rogers]

No.

[Bowen Yang]

But. But my thing was like, a thing where I was like. The character was drugged and in a sexual situation. So then it became a thing of, like, she was just kind of like, administering, like, safety on it. But I do think, like, it's.

[John Waters]

It's.

[Bowen Yang]

It's wildly different when it comes to, like, it depends what your film is depicting.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

You know what I mean. Like the intimacy coordinator. I hear the conversation about it happening, and I think it's a really fascinating conversation to hear when you speak to filmmakers, like, who have been working for a long, long time, this sort of, like, confusion towards it. And now it's so industry standard that I just Wonder how that rubs with people that have been working.

[John Waters]

I hated filming sex scenes. I never liked it. It's embarrassing because it's awkward to me. It is. You know, like, do this. You know, I just want to make them comfortable. I mean, in Pink Flamingo's Divine really gives head.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. Was that real?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Wow.

[John Waters]

And to a straight guy. And he started laughing. They were friends. He didn't get hard, but he had to yell, do my balls, mama. One of the rudest lines in the movie.

[Matt Rogers]

Rudest.

[Bowen Yang]

Do my balls, mama.

[John Waters]

Imagine the intimacy coordinator on that. Do you mind saying that?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. So when I did, what I would say it is.

[John Waters]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Bowen Yang]

No, no.

[John Waters]

I was gonna bet you were gonna give me a line reading. Right?

[Matt Rogers]

Do a line reading.

[Bowen Yang]

It's just do my balls in the last word. I wish I had. Mama. Yeah, do my balls, mama.

[John Waters]

Good. I did my audio books of all my screenplays came up. And I play every role in all six movies. So it's. And I had to yell, do my balls, mama. I'd look over at the technician thinking, jesus, I hope they were prepared for this. Cause when you're reading your own book and it's dirty, it's more mortifying. It sounds filthier when you read it out loud than when you write it or read it.

[Matt Rogers]

And then, like, with that much time passing, you're like, I didn't realize.

[John Waters]

I know. Well, certainly those lines, you can't. Like, now I can say fuck on national network television, but I can't say fat on pbs.

[Matt Rogers]

Which would you rather say?

[John Waters]

Both.

[Bowen Yang]

Fat. Both.

[Matt Rogers]

Of course you'd rather say fat.

[Bowen Yang]

Fuck on fucks.

[John Waters]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Okay. So, Mr. Know It All, I think. Was that where you coined filth elder?

[John Waters]

Maybe. I don't remember. Yeah, I did call myself that, but I did not call myself the pope of trash. William Burroughs.

[Matt Rogers]

William Burroughs did.

[John Waters]

And all those other titles the press made up. The only thing I ever called myself was a filth elder, which is not exactly bragging, but.

[Bowen Yang]

Do you love Pope of Trash?

[John Waters]

Sure. Cause that's Burrows said it. It's like being anointed from God.

[Matt Rogers]

Of course. I have that shirt, too. I have the John Waters Pope of Trash shirt.

[John Waters]

Wait till you see the new stuff we have.

[Matt Rogers]

There's new stuff?

[John Waters]

Have you seen the come rags? The John Woodards cumrags? I'm the only celebrity cumrag, and we have.

[Matt Rogers]

Not for long. I'll get into that.

[John Waters]

The only celebrity cumrag and puke bags we have. All through Seth Bogart's company. And he did these but we have a whole new line. Wait till you see what we got coming out soon.

[Matt Rogers]

I framed the pukebacks from the 50th anniversary screening of Pink Flamingos from P Town.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, we were in P Town for that.

[John Waters]

That's right.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[John Waters]

That's where we met.

[Matt Rogers]

That's where we met. And that was. That was one of my favorite nights. I was like, it was my first time in P Town. We were seeing the fifth anniversary, 50th anniversary of pink Flamingos.

[Bowen Yang]

They were showing Fire island at the film festival.

[John Waters]

They were showing Fire Island.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, but Filth Elder. Do you feel like there are Filth proteges? Do you feel like there are? Sure.

[John Waters]

I mean, there's young people that don't imitate me. They're the ones that do. I don't like. I don't like the work. So they're just trying to be shocking without being funny or witty. But there's certainly young filmmakers that surprise me. They're mostly French, like Gaspar Noe and Bruno Dumond and all these kind of young filmmakers that are. I love Eddington, I loved Seurat. Did you see that movie in the movie? It is so good. So I'm just saying there's still great movies out there. Definitely.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes. But none have this kind of like. I don't know, there's just a good heartedness to all your films. Is that fair to say?

[John Waters]

Yes. I think I made fun of things I loved my whole life. Not that I hated. And maybe that's why, including I started by making fun of myself by calling my films trash epics and everything.

[Bowen Yang]

You know, I think that's one of the things that immediately. So one of the. We asked this question, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? And one of my answers to that is I was 10 years old and my parents took me to see Hairspray on Broadway and Good Morning Baltimore. I think that what jumped out of the about it the most for me was the fact that she was so joyfully, joyously singing about and playing in her world of filth, even if she's getting flasher who lives next door.

[John Waters]

I played Adam Shankman.

[Bowen Yang]

Yep, yep.

[John Waters]

Type chaos.

[Bowen Yang]

Perfect. But there is, there is something about that. It's one of the. One of the things I think is the most unfortunate things in the world is people who take themselves seriously. And so watching her just immediately eschew all of that. But she loved her life. And when she was so self confident, she was so proud of the place she came from. Even Though it was garbage, you know, and in that way, it then wasn't garbage. And she saw hope in it, and she saw possibility and future in it, and she just went for it. That I think it being made into a musical and then into a movie musical. That message keeps getting delivered to kids, and it's important.

[John Waters]

You can't screw up Hairspray, even a band.

[Bowen Yang]

No. Yeah.

[John Waters]

Because the characters Tracy stands for, anybody ever that was hassled for being different in any kind of way, who takes what they were hassled by, exaggerates it and wins. That's all you can do. If they use something against you, own it, grab it, say, yes, I am, and then make it worse.

[Bowen Yang]

Takes a long time to learn that, though. And I feel like you know her like that. It's just an important thing. It's like that thing that makes you different is what makes you special. That's like the twee way of saying it, but it's that you said it.

[John Waters]

We haven't heard that Terminal.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, we love saying.

[John Waters]

I like it, too. Can you speak that way, though? There's a whole language called something, you

[Bowen Yang]

know, I'm so allergic to it. But, like, I'm sure we could do it. We could get all tweet with each other.

[Matt Rogers]

John Waters films really break the mold of what legitimately. Like, it's like. It's like. It's that kind of like, I don't know. And we do that all the time. We're guilty of that in earnest. But we love to make fun of it, too. I think that's like our. That's us making fun of ourselves the way that you were making fun of ourselves.

[John Waters]

Well, it's important to do that.

[Bowen Yang]

We are not we. I am gonna reject this.

[John Waters]

No, I don't think you are either.

[Bowen Yang]

Thank you so much.

[Matt Rogers]

I feel like the beatnik thing, though, is what developed good taste for you. And so then you learned the rules, and then you were able to revel in bad taste.

[John Waters]

Well, I was able to realize, like, a dirty T shirt could be great or bad, but I don't know. It was. Beatniks outraged people at the time when they came out. And it was the first thing I saw rebellion, that I wanted to do. I always say the first record you buy as a child, no matter how young, that your parents hate, that's the beginning of the soundtrack of your life.

[Bowen Yang]

Wow.

[John Waters]

What a terrible thing to like your children's music that stunts your child. If you say, oh, I love that record, you're gonna keep finding one, you until you hate it.

[Matt Rogers]

You're so right.

[Bowen Yang]

It's true.

[Matt Rogers]

You're so right. I. Yeah. And I. I think that bad taste or good taste, whatever side it. It falls on, is. Is just compensating for, like, the thing that you were lacking.

[John Waters]

Maybe I was drilled. Good taste. And you have to learn those rules to make fun of bad tastes. So I thank my people.

[Matt Rogers]

Like, what did that. Like, how did that show up for your parents? Like, they were like, this is how you wear.

[John Waters]

Oh, my God. My mother thought you should die if you wore white shoes after Labor Day.

[Bowen Yang]

Really?

[John Waters]

I'm still right wing on that.

[Bowen Yang]

You're right wing on white after Labor Day?

[Matt Rogers]

It is.

[John Waters]

You can't wear velvet before Thanksgiving. You can't wear a patent leather before Easter. I believe you should die if you do this.

[Matt Rogers]

Like in Serial mom, who was that actress who was also in Crybaby? Like, the woman, the juror who gets murdered in Syria?

[John Waters]

Patty Hearst.

[Bowen Yang]

That's Patty Hearst.

[John Waters]

Of course.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Waters]

Just.

[Matt Rogers]

Fashion's changed.

[Bowen Yang]

No, it has.

[Matt Rogers]

Kills her. Kills her.

[John Waters]

Patty really takes that hit. Well, even Kathleen said better than any stunt woman I've ever worked with.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, yeah. Really did.

[Matt Rogers]

But I think this is. So I was reading something about how bad taste shows up, and it's in these cultures. I'm just gonna throw these out there. People can come for me. But it's like, between, like, Russian gaudiness and, like, some kinds of Asian gaudiness, like Saudi gaudiness. Like, these are all from.

[John Waters]

It's hair hoppers. People that spend too much time on their hair without irony. Without irony. And act rich when they're not because. Because they're show labels and look the same as everybody with no irony sells a hair hopper. You should. Swiss people. People know how to be rich. You hide it.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Because it's coming from, like, in. Let's say, like, in all these parts of the world that I just kind of rattled off. It's like, because they were coming from desolate. Really, really just austere places. Right. Where, like, oh, you didn't have the nice. You had no idea. You had no access to anything.

[John Waters]

Or maybe the tyranny of good taste they never grew up with. That is sort of an American or British thing, which is what you grew

[Matt Rogers]

up with with your parents, this tyrannical sense of, like, this is what you have to do.

[John Waters]

Well, they were very opinionated on it, and they taught me what was right and wrong, and I'm not sorry they did. I still use a lot of the Stuff that they taught me.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[John Waters]

But yet they were horrified by the movies I made right up to the end. But they supported me doing it. They were. They were. Which is amazing. And my parents had a happy 70 year marriage, so I give them great credit.

[Matt Rogers]

Wow. And then that also expands your palette in terms of, like, I have always. I love. I think I got my first, like, sort of written sense of like, Comme des Garcons, like Rei Kawakubo stuff from Role Models where I was like, oh, yeah. Like, you still have this appreciation for, like, the current fashion. Do you still go to metal shows?

[John Waters]

Yeah, I went to see Nine Inch Nails just recently.

[Matt Rogers]

We went to nine inches.

[John Waters]

I saw them in la.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, wasn't it fabulous?

[John Waters]

The audience is really. I just like looking at the audience at all these shows.

[Bowen Yang]

It's wild.

[Matt Rogers]

It was like. It was horrible. It's time for faggots to love Nine Inch Nails again.

[John Waters]

Oh, I go to heavy metal a lot. I just like to look at the kids.

[Matt Rogers]

What are you looking for?

[John Waters]

Cause you're observing something new, some new thing, and I just think they look great and they're having fun and they always. I'm always the oldest person there. Ever since William Burroughs died, I'm the oldest person. Not that I'm the same, but he was always the old and it went anywhere. And so. No, I just like to see the energy of it. I like to see. I hate old people like my age that say, we had more fun. No, you didn't. You just don't know what's going on.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. Fun adapted.

[John Waters]

I would have been a hacker. I would have been a hacker. Except they have bad clothes. They have poor posture.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[John Waters]

They're just hunched over.

[Bowen Yang]

The clothes. Hackers should be using those. The standing desks with the treadmill they walk on. You're gonna do great hackers.

[Matt Rogers]

So hacker clothes like, you can't do.

[John Waters]

It's normcore.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. Because there's no clay on the table for you to molder in.

[John Waters]

No, there's no rebellion. Look for a hacker. Cause you gotta blend in. And when you're out, you don't wanna get dark web. You don't dress for it.

[Bowen Yang]

What do you think of the people still debating what camp is now that

[John Waters]

there are old queens? That the last movie they saw was Rita Hayworth? I don't know anybody that would say the word camp.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, you've never. You don't say it.

[John Waters]

No. That word was over after Susan Sontag wrote about it. It was like sitting in an antique store under Tiffany lampshade. Talking about Betty Grable movies.

[Matt Rogers]

Holy moly.

[John Waters]

Then it became camp, became, I don't know, trash. Then it became filth. Now it's just American humor.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. Now it's just Met Gal.

[John Waters]

It's just fucking.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Like, your stuff will always be singular. It will never be, like, even as I'm wearing merch. Even as you're at the Academy, Even though. Even as it's being, like, institutionally recognized, it will always have this like. Like this, this. This. This fingerprint of, like, this.

[John Waters]

It's worse now.

[Matt Rogers]

You think it's worse now?

[John Waters]

Yes. Because of political correctness. You can't even say happy birthday, fatso. You can't say that anymore. Like, the stuff in there. You can't say any of this shit. It's worse than it ever was. And yet still nobody gets mad.

[Matt Rogers]

Have you heard about this movie, the drama with Zendaya and Ramona?

[John Waters]

I'm dying to see it, though.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, I think you'd love it. I think you'd love it. I think there's a lot of.

[John Waters]

I'm a big fan of him.

[Matt Rogers]

He's wonderful.

[John Waters]

And he takes chances in all movies.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, he does.

[Matt Rogers]

He does.

[John Waters]

I'm dying to see it. Isn't it the same. Didn't Ari Aster, executive producer? He did, and I love Ari Aster.

[Podcast Promoter]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. I was gonna say, remember the.

[John Waters]

About Sleeping Dogs Lie, where the girl tells her boyfriend, everybody's playing Tell the Truth, and she says she blew her dog? And it's the same kind of genre.

[Bowen Yang]

It's the same conceit where I know

[John Waters]

the secret don't tell.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

But in that way, she confesses to this deep, dark secret. Right. And it's about, like, you know, gun violence. And it's.

[John Waters]

No, I know what it's about. I'm dying to see it. That's the next movie I'm paying to see.

[Matt Rogers]

I think about Female Trouble all the time, where Divine literally shoots up the audience.

[John Waters]

Well, who wants to die for art? That's so politically incorrect. After that happened. For real.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[John Waters]

That puts it in a whole different world.

[Bowen Yang]

That's really what it is. And I almost.

[John Waters]

But no one ever complained about that.

[Bowen Yang]

Literally, like, 10 years ago, you could make gun violence jokes. We would do it, like, back at, like, UCB and stuff. Like, we were doing sketch comedy. Like, there would be. It was. Maybe this is just young people doing comedy and sketch comedy and, like, doing what they think was funny. But a common thing was for a gun to come out you know what I mean?

[John Waters]

Nowadays, mink's ass in Desperate Living. I cringe at that.

[Bowen Yang]

It would make people nervous now.

[John Waters]

Made people nervous then.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. Really nervous now, though, that it's like

[John Waters]

no likely will happen. Even the. The pink flamingos thing with the vine with the gun, sometimes they exit out and stuff really well, because it's. Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Literally triggering.

[John Waters]

And everybody in the politicians in Baltimore always say, how can we make. I said, don't just put out a bumper sticker. The Wire, it's still like that.

[Matt Rogers]

And that's supposed to make it better?

[John Waters]

Well, it's a creepy own reality, let me tell you. The Wire in Japan, they love it.

[Bowen Yang]

Really.

[John Waters]

It's internationally one of the most known and loved things about Baltimore is one of the best TV shows ever now. So why do we hide that?

[Matt Rogers]

Why do we hide that? I mean, do you know if your movie play in Japan?

[John Waters]

Oh, I've been there with them and

[Matt Rogers]

they love it there.

[John Waters]

Yeah, they're great.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, they must.

[John Waters]

Becker was a huge hit because they love Eddie Furlong. They love hairless, androgynous men.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[John Waters]

Leonardo to them is, you know, so Sylvester Stallone. They would so gag like the bears. They don't get that there's a very

[Matt Rogers]

specific subculture of bears in Japan. They have eagles. They have multiple eagle locations.

[John Waters]

Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, the eagles actually everywhere.

[Matt Rogers]

You're right.

[John Waters]

There's just not a young person ever in1. Because SNM does look stupid on young people.

[Matt Rogers]

You think so?

[John Waters]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

What do you make of pups of these? Of these.

[Bowen Yang]

What do you make of pups of these?

[Matt Rogers]

Twinks who go around. They're not all twinks.

[John Waters]

Lock them up. No, I'm just kidding.

[Bowen Yang]

Like the rest of the dogs.

[John Waters]

Adult babies. Lock those fuckers up.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Waters]

I mean, I don't get it, but you can be whatever you want. But, however, aren't plushies lesbians?

[Matt Rogers]

I'm not sure.

[John Waters]

I think they can be anything, but I went to plushie night accidentally once in the Eagle in Baltimore, and it was mostly lesbians, and I thought. I didn't know that.

[Matt Rogers]

And plushies are different from furries?

[John Waters]

No, I think it's the same.

[Matt Rogers]

It's the same. I just. I just.

[John Waters]

Who wants to get dressed up like a fucking stuffed animal and have sex? It's too hot.

[Bowen Yang]

It's so warm. Yeah. But then I think probably something else takes over in the brain that it's satisfying where you don't think about how it's hot. You only think about how it's. It's Satisfying maybe.

[John Waters]

Yeah, maybe. There's some things that lose me adult babies when I see them and their fag hags are called mommies and they nurse them. And if you're sitting in a bouncy chair at 60 weighing 200 pounds, lock em up. I ain't marching for them. No.

[Matt Rogers]

No one's marching for them.

[John Waters]

Yeah, some people are. Some people are the rights of adult babies. Not me.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, have you watched. Have you checked in on, I guess the closest thing to. To the chaos Euphoria? Have you watched any of Euphoria?

[John Waters]

I haven't and I'm. I should.

[Bowen Yang]

You're fine.

[Matt Rogers]

You're fine.

[Bowen Yang]

Like, but. But we're dealing with adult baby stuff on Euphoria.

[John Waters]

I read all about the shows and I don't.

[Bowen Yang]

I do the same thing and I'll check in on clips and I'll be like, okay, this is what's happening. But there was some. There was some scene last night in Euphoria where I was watching it for a second and then I was like, this kind of feels like a John Waters movie. It's like, you know, Jacob Elordi getting the. Kicked out of him by the. By the mob. And Sydney Sweeney has a bloody nose. Just her huge tits and her wedding gown just like sobbing like, what's happening? And I'm like, there's something here spiritually.

[John Waters]

I feel like one of your movies, I guess. But were you laughing?

[Bowen Yang]

I was laughing because I wasn't like, I didn't have it in context. I don't know if I'm supposed to be laughing at home. I don't know what I'm supposed to feel anymore watching the show, which I think is an issue.

[John Waters]

Maybe that's why people are talking about it.

[Bowen Yang]

I think you're probably right.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. I think it's time.

[Bowen Yang]

It's time. Okay, so this is what else must be on your. On your board there.

[John Waters]

We're going. I don't think so. Homework. I had two particular things.

[Bowen Yang]

See, I hate being a podcast that gives homework, but it is fun homework.

[John Waters]

You know what I mean? That's fine.

[Matt Rogers]

That's good homework.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. So this is.

[John Waters]

I don't. Worse when you give it and they don't prepare.

[Matt Rogers]

It happens all the time.

[John Waters]

Who did the worst?

[Bowen Yang]

The worst? I don't think so. Any. Probably us at some point.

[Matt Rogers]

No, we bomb every week. We really do.

[Bowen Yang]

I don't think that's true. And well, now I watch when I bomb.

[Matt Rogers]

No, watch when I bomb.

[Bowen Yang]

Anyway, this is out on Think so. Honey, it's gonna Be a one minute segment. It's gonna bomb or it's gonna not. It's gonna be what it is.

[John Waters]

It's one minute. Do you mean I have to talk fast? Like the ads of the side effects at the end of a drug ad on the radio.

[Bowen Yang]

You know, don't feel pressured to do that. But if you could. All right, here, we're gonna model it for you for first and then you're going to.

[John Waters]

It might go a little longer.

[Bowen Yang]

Choose your own event. That's fine. All right, so I do have something. It's been a struggle. I've been had this on the brain for a while and I feel like I actually haven't taken to the mic on this. So this is a good opportunity.

[Matt Rogers]

Here we go. This, we're, we're breaking new ground. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.

[Bowen Yang]

I don't think so, honey. You can't buy any medication you want at the CVS cuz it's under the behind the lockbox. Get real. I need mucin xd so it cannot work on, on me by the way. Also I don't think somebody use an xd. They said there's meth in this off like is that why it's behind the glass? Because there's meth in it?

[Matt Rogers]

You can make meth?

[Bowen Yang]

Okay, that's ridiculous because I, I'm taking it. It's not even helping me get not sick. It's not going to create meth. I every time I'm in the CVS or the Walgreens have to ring the bell. They take their sweet time getting over here. Now you can't even get toothpaste. Can you make meth from toothpaste paste? Because you would think I am really having a hard time when I go into any store and I'm like, why can't I get this? Oh, because if the wrong person came in here and got it, they're going to create meth with it. I don't think so, honey. By the way, I've been not sick for two weeks but having whatever's going on here for two weeks mucin xd. I guess I have to increase the meth in there because it's not working on me. Claridin. Is there enough meth in that? I can't get enough meth to get me not sick? I don't think so, honey. Just let me have the medication that

[Matt Rogers]

I need and that's one minute.

[John Waters]

Plus you have to check out yourself.

[Bowen Yang]

This is what I'm Saying, like, I need your help to come get me the product. And then you're of no help when I'm checking out the hell.

[John Waters]

And they act mad. I thought if. If I didn't act, you won't have a job. You should be glad.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, by the way, there's only three people working in there at any given time, so this is the battle of the machines.

[Matt Rogers]

Ever done meth?

[John Waters]

Maybe not. I did. I shot diet pills once, though.

[Bowen Yang]

How did that happen?

[John Waters]

Cold shake. Oh, it was horrible. A big black bubble rose in my arm. Don't ever.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, my God.

[John Waters]

I did crazy shit when I was young, but I never got into it that much. I never liked shooting up. It was like. But I had good veins.

[Bowen Yang]

He did meth one time on accident.

[John Waters]

I did almost everything else when I stopped taking drugs. Was ecstasy a drug that makes you love everybody? That's not a high for me.

[Bowen Yang]

Me. See, I love it. I can't get any.

[John Waters]

I would hate it. You would hate it in a cuddle pile. Can you picture me in one?

[Bowen Yang]

No, don't. Stay away from ketamine then.

[John Waters]

Oh, I wouldn't do that one either.

[Bowen Yang]

No, it's bad.

[John Waters]

Just drink water all the time.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, the ketamine, that will get you barnacling on someone that you're like. I don't even like you that much, but here I am.

[Matt Rogers]

It's what you got to do.

[Bowen Yang]

You ready?

[Matt Rogers]

I'm ready. Okay. Do you need my phone?

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, no, I have my own form. All right, so this will be Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. And get this. If I can get my thing up. Where's my. Where is. There we go. This is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. As time starts now.

[Matt Rogers]

I don't think so, honey. The distance between the beach and the main Dragon province town. This is why I will always still gravitate towards Fire Island. Despite the. Despite the way it changes year to year, despite the.

[John Waters]

The crowds.

[Matt Rogers]

You never know where you're gonna get p. Town represents wonderful stability and wonderful community. And yet, if you want to sunbathe in any sort of respectable fashion, you gotta go to the public pool. I love a public pool, but sometimes even that gets a little crowded. Yes, I do, John Waters. I don't love riding a bicycle, especially given my family history with bicycles. Three different generations of bike accidents. I'm not going to chance it. There's a curse on the Yang family, so that's why I will never get it up in A sense to go to the beach in Provincetown and you never know where you're gonna get weather wise. And there's just shit in the sand. Cause people, the artists in Residents are taking dumps on the beach. I'm just gonna. I'm just assuming that's what's happening. But I feel like that is. That's the main sort of obstacle I have with P Town.

[Bowen Yang]

And that's what minute. Why don't you just go to the small beach on commercial?

[John Waters]

It's right on. The Bay beach is right there.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, go to the Bay Beach.

[Matt Rogers]

That doesn't count.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, you can't say this boy beach,

[John Waters]

where you have to. To walk across the dunes with all the bicycles and all that.

[Matt Rogers]

That feels like a real beach to me.

[John Waters]

Well, that's cause people are having sex.

[Matt Rogers]

But I don't even. That's not even the appeal.

[Bowen Yang]

How you get a real beach are people having sex on it? They're not doing that at the Bay Beach.

[Matt Rogers]

They're not doing that at the Bay Beach. But that's. I do, as I get older, love P Town more and more over Fire Island.

[Bowen Yang]

There's no way it can compete. First of all, in P Town you have restaurants. Just that alone. You don't have restaurants?

[John Waters]

No. Well, there's a couple.

[Matt Rogers]

There's a couple.

[Bowen Yang]

I mean, there's food.

[John Waters]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

There's not restaurants. Like if you go to Cherry Grove, you can get your restaurants, which is where you'll be when you go. Right. I play both.

[John Waters]

The other place too, in the Pines.

[Bowen Yang]

You do both.

[Matt Rogers]

It's nice. But you are not going anywhere near the Belvedere.

[John Waters]

I don't. I mean, I remember that place forever. I stayed there a couple times. It was very, very. Kind of like. Pink narcissus.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes.

[Matt Rogers]

Just. I mean it is fantastic in that way. Literally where it feels like you're in a fantasy.

[Bowen Yang]

I would think you'd love it.

[John Waters]

But can you picture me in the baths? I've never gone to the baths in my life. Walking around in a towel is not how I do well.

[Bowen Yang]

I feel like you'd go dressed just like this.

[John Waters]

I would, but that was a problem somewhat.

[Bowen Yang]

You're.

[John Waters]

You.

[Bowen Yang]

You can do whatever you want, but

[John Waters]

I. I'm trying to blend in in between shows.

[Matt Rogers]

That's right. That's right. All right, John.

[John Waters]

All right.

[Matt Rogers]

Are you ready?

[John Waters]

I'm gonna talk fast.

[Matt Rogers]

Okay. This is John Waters. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.

[John Waters]

I can't stand the way some people talk. I hate it when actors Use the word journey. That's not a fucking journey. Winning a Spirit Award escaping from Ukraine is. I hate airlines. When they say your flight is because of weather. There's always weather.

[Bowen Yang]

You mean bay.

[John Waters]

Or when the MPA said, rated X for language. There's always language. What are you talking about? A silent film. I hate actions. Say they're humble. We'll go down the S and M bar and get it. Shut up and get smacked around. I hate people who say surreal. If you're talking about Dolly, all right. Not some boring thing in your daily life.

[Matt Rogers]

30.

[John Waters]

I hate it when weathermen say, wind chill and heat index. That bullshit words. I hate when gay people say, this is my lover. Who are you, Lady Chatterley? I hate it also when gay people say to me, hey, girl, that I don't know. Excuse me, do I look like a girl? I guess it failed. Getting dressed this morning. People say, are you a top or a bottom? It's not a political party. I'm independent. And worst of all, when people say, can I take your picture? No, my picture is home with Kool Aid in it.

[Bowen Yang]

That's one minute. Wow. Thank God. That was just about modern life and I love it.

[John Waters]

Did I hit the minute? You hit.

[Bowen Yang]

In fact, you had 56 seconds and. And the slapping down of the. Of the paper was the final four.

[Matt Rogers]

We love picture.

[John Waters]

I hate. Gotta take. I've heard newsmen say that. Look at this picture. Oh, my God. You should be fired.

[Bowen Yang]

You should be fired.

[John Waters]

People say that's a regional thing. No, it's not. It's stupid.

[Matt Rogers]

I was just ready.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm an. I'm an idiot at pizza. I'm coming up to you. Oh, my God. Hey, girl. It is surreal to see you. Can we have a picture?

[John Waters]

I hate when people. Oh, God, it is surreal to see you.

[Bowen Yang]

I need a picture.

[John Waters]

Hey, girl. Too familiar.

[Matt Rogers]

How long would you have to know someone for them to call you girl?

[John Waters]

Never. Do I look if I fail. Getting dressed today, sir?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, yeah. There you go.

[Matt Rogers]

Hi, King. What if someone called you King better, girl. Yeah, I guess so. I guess so.

[John Waters]

Zaddio. That's what they call old people.

[Bowen Yang]

Zadio.

[Matt Rogers]

Zadio.

[John Waters]

Yeah, Zadio.

[Bowen Yang]

Zaddio is interesting. I like savage.

[John Waters]

Old chickens make good soup. That's what my friend Pat Moran, when she dated an older man, her mom

[Bowen Yang]

said that old chickens make good soup.

[John Waters]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

What is that supposed to mean?

[John Waters]

Like when you're old and young people go after you say, old chickens make good soup.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah. What's the soup? Cum.

[John Waters]

No, it's just Girl, you are.

[Bowen Yang]

You are sick and disturbed.

[Matt Rogers]

Tender, tender.

[Bowen Yang]

Old chickens make good soup. It means you want to bathe around in their broth.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, that's interesting, I guess. Yeah, I guess. I guess old people do. Old chickens make good stuff.

[Bowen Yang]

He wants some old people soup.

[Matt Rogers]

I want old people soup.

[Bowen Yang]

Crazy cannibal ass.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, well, John Waters, the star of Kevin on Amazon Prime.

[John Waters]

On prime, one of the stars. I'm not the star.

[Matt Rogers]

I think you're the star.

[Bowen Yang]

Aubrey Plaza also involved.

[John Waters]

Whoopi Goldberg.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, the whoops.

[Matt Rogers]

The whoops. John Waters, any parting words of witness?

[John Waters]

I don't know that I would ever preach to anybody. I want to hear your words of wisdom of things that would make me nervous. If you're younger than me.

[Matt Rogers]

Are you prompting us right now?

[John Waters]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

What would make you nervous?

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, my God.

[Bowen Yang]

Hmm.

[Matt Rogers]

What would make you nervous? It sounds like I think you should feel completely liberated or whatever about talking about. About this idea of, like, political correctness. I feel like that's the thing that makes everybody nervous. And yet I feel like you've probably earned a place where you can just sort of. You've seen it all, you've done it all. You've shocked everybody up and down. Like, I think you don't have to be nervous about anything.

[John Waters]

But I make fun of the rules that we live by, not our parents. I make fun of the liberals Rules.

[Matt Rogers]

Yes.

[John Waters]

And now there are more rules than my parents had.

[Matt Rogers]

Oh, trust me, we understand. Yeah, we do. We understand that completely.

[Bowen Yang]

I have thing. Okay, so on every episode, we end with a song. So you're gonna do that this time. You're gonna end this episode with a song.

[John Waters]

Hey, hey, set me free. Stupid cupid, start fucking with me.

[Matt Rogers]

Las Colduristas is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts,

[Bowen Yang]

created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, executive produced by Anna Hosnier and produced by Becca Ramos, edited and

[Matt Rogers]

mixed by Doug Bame.

[Bowen Yang]

And our music is by Henry Kamersky.

[John Waters]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.