← Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
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- [00:00]
Anna Hazniyeh
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Matt Rogers
This is Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers.
- [00:07]
Bowen Yang
From Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.
- [00:13]
Matt Rogers
All right, rears Katie's publicist finalist Kyle's. It's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. That's right, it's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you meaning you can pay your own way.
- [00:24]
Bowen Yang
PayPal offers people flexibility on how they can pay. Once you click the PayPal button, you can choose from a bunch of payment.
- [00:30]
Matt Rogers
Options, including pay with PayPal at millions of online stores.
- [00:35]
Bowen Yang
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- [00:39]
Matt Rogers
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- [01:23]
Bowen Yang
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- [02:16]
Matt Rogers
Look man there.
- [02:17]
Bowen Yang
Oh I see my oh my Bowen. Look over there.
- [02:20]
Anna Hazniyeh
Wow.
- [02:20]
Matt Rogers
Is that the culture? Yes. Goodness.
- [02:22]
Bowen Yang
Wow. Las Culturistas Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling now.
- [02:29]
Matt Rogers
I have to really check in with you because you are as of two days Ago officially a New Yorker again.
- [02:35]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, it's now happened to happen.
- [02:36]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [02:37]
Bowen Yang
But I will say the thing about moving is then you have to, like, do that process. And I can't believe what I'm finding in my closet.
- [02:46]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [02:47]
Bowen Yang
So one of my best friends, Melissa, came over and we went through all of my clothes and really, really, really said, does it spark joy? I guess we did like, a Marie Kondo moment of my shit. Did not spark joy.
- [02:59]
Matt Rogers
It's okay.
- [02:59]
Bowen Yang
And I'm like, all this stuff that I was around didn't spark joy. And it literally was. You'll find it weighs you down. Like, have you done, like, a deep, like, donation moment?
- [03:09]
Matt Rogers
I've been like a quarterly purge. And it's still not enough. No, it's still not enough.
- [03:14]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [03:14]
Matt Rogers
And it's. I don't consider myself someone who, like, shops egregiously. I guess, like, we've all been made to be like, I guess I need that. Just because it's like you hit a call to action, and then it's. You hit add to cart and it's in.
- [03:24]
Bowen Yang
It's. You know what it is for me? It's like stuff you accumulate at things where they, like, give you a shirt. It's like, oh, no, I need that Yankees pride shirt.
- [03:33]
Matt Rogers
No, you don't.
- [03:33]
Bowen Yang
Oh, no, I need that. That shirt that says, like, that niche phrase that I'm into this week. I found a shirt the other day. What it say that I got from. It was from the Game show writers room, and it said, you want to me Barbara, which is a line from Notes on a Scandal, which literally there would have been one time to wear it, and it's when we had Kate Blanchette on this podcast, and I didn't do it. So I gotta say thank you to the writers room of Game show for that gift, but it's gone. It had to go in the Marie Kondo move.
- [04:05]
Matt Rogers
Hey, that's okay. Now, would you. I'm gonna posit something.
- [04:09]
Bowen Yang
Okay.
- [04:10]
Matt Rogers
Would you be okay with me, let's say, looking at a shirt that says, you're Lisa Barlow, I care a lot for MeToo shirt, not that I've done this. Would you be okay with me disposing of it?
- [04:20]
Bowen Yang
I just got rid of it.
- [04:21]
Matt Rogers
That's okay.
- [04:22]
Bowen Yang
And I thought to myself, because when you're on, like, the. I remember watch, I probably was watching Salt Lake City Housewives. She said. What was it she said?
- [04:31]
Matt Rogers
She said, I care about me too.
- [04:33]
Bowen Yang
No, I feel for me too.
- [04:34]
Matt Rogers
I feel for me, too. I'm sorry.
- [04:35]
Bowen Yang
I Feel for me, too. And at the moment, I was like, wow, that's amazing. You go on, you know, whatever it is, like Etsy or whatever, and there it is as a shirt. And you say, well, I gotta buy that.
- [04:44]
Matt Rogers
You go on Redbubble. It's there.
- [04:45]
Bowen Yang
If you buy every piece of merch that has a cute housewives saying, you're gonna be living in shit. And that is rule of culture number 40. If you buy every piece of merch that has a cute housewife saying, you're.
- [04:58]
Matt Rogers
Gonna be living in shit.
- [04:59]
Bowen Yang
And I've been living in shit. And I tell you, I can breathe again.
- [05:02]
Matt Rogers
I know. Isn't that nice?
- [05:03]
Bowen Yang
Yes. And quarterly, I'm gonna pick that up from here.
- [05:05]
Matt Rogers
Quarterly's nice. And it's just nice to be back in New York when you have sort of dusted off the internal cobwebs for yourself. I hope it feels fresher. We're getting some rain today.
- [05:15]
Bowen Yang
You know what? I was moving in the rain yesterday, and they had closed down my street because of a bicycle race. And I said, you know what, Matt? You wanted New York back, you're getting it back.
- [05:25]
Matt Rogers
That's what it's all about.
- [05:26]
Bowen Yang
And I'm happy. I'm thrilled. I love my new place. It's still slowly coming together as it's the process, but, like, returning to New York. And we were just talking to our guest about this because our guest is an iconic New Yorker.
- [05:38]
Matt Rogers
She has a prodigal return, as it were.
- [05:39]
Bowen Yang
Prodigal return.
- [05:41]
Matt Rogers
Fantastic. New book.
- [05:42]
Bowen Yang
Yes. The new book is actually. It's not only very much like the definitive, I would say, biography on Marsha P. Johnson, but also this is a book about. This is a queer history of New York.
- [05:51]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [05:52]
Bowen Yang
And that is something that I really loved about it. And we were just saying before we got on, like, specifically this area, you know, your Christopher street, your West Village, your Stonewall area. Like, we have so much personal history there. And I'm so proud to have that history.
- [06:06]
Matt Rogers
Me too.
- [06:06]
Bowen Yang
And reading this book made me so proud.
- [06:08]
Matt Rogers
She has such a deep history with this part of town. Truly definitives, which. I want to talk about this because there's like a Nashvillification of the West Village that's happening right now. And I would love to talk about this.
- [06:19]
Bowen Yang
Oh, we should talk about it.
- [06:21]
Matt Rogers
Our guest is a filmmaker and artist, one great queer archivists that we have. I reached out to her for the first time because I was reading Faggots and the Friends Between Revolutions. And you wrote such a beautiful introduction to that. And I was like, I have to reach out to her. Like, this is one of the most beautiful pieces of queer writing that I've ever read. And I think I DMed you.
- [06:38]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [06:39]
Matt Rogers
And then I was like, hi, I'm just like a fan. Like, you wrote such a beautiful thing. And then when it was announced that you were writing like the kind of the first.
- [06:48]
Anna Hazniyeh
The first ever.
- [06:48]
Matt Rogers
The first ever Marsha P. Johnson biography, I got so excited. And then I'm so glad this worked out. So that you were on the book.
- [06:55]
Bowen Yang
Is Marsha the joy and defiance of Marsha P. Johnson.
- [06:58]
Matt Rogers
May 20.
- [06:58]
Bowen Yang
She's just one of the most important icons we've had in our history. And to know that such an exhaustive, brilliant piece of writing now exists, it's just beautiful. And we are so proud to welcome you to the podcast. Welcome to your ears.
- [07:15]
Anna Hazniyeh
Hi. Thank you both for having me so much. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited to dig into it.
- [07:22]
Bowen Yang
And I mean, it's not just Marcia, it's that area. You bring it to life beautifully.
- [07:28]
Anna Hazniyeh
Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I have spent so much time on Christopher Street. I started going there as a teenager when I was at Columbia, taking that slow one train down. And that's where I found my people. That's where I found, like queer, trans, gender, non conforming young people just taking up space. We were turning up the volume of our life. Like we were being all of who we were. And also we were getting noise and resistance. The people who lived there weren't into us, the police weren't into us. And yet, similar to Marcia, that was just a jumping off point for turning up the volume more.
- [08:02]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [08:02]
Matt Rogers
That's a beautiful way to put it though.
- [08:03]
Bowen Yang
It's really beautiful.
- [08:04]
Matt Rogers
I mean, like, if you're lucky in life, it's just a big opportunity to just gradually turn up the dial or have someone knock it down. And then you just keep turning it the other way. I need to know about the commute from Columbia down the street.
- [08:20]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, the one train commute.
- [08:21]
Anna Hazniyeh
The one train commute. Pre iPhone. It was just long, you know, it was just. But you know, I was saying before, like, I live in Miami right now and I drive up to Disney World all the time. Cause that's like my place of hustle.
- [08:34]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
- [08:35]
Anna Hazniyeh
But commuting for me is a place where I find clarity. It's like I fall into the daydream. I fall into the imagination as an artist. You know, some of us have studios, but for me, like, New York City was my studio and the subway Train was my place of, like, rest and respite. Yeah.
- [08:53]
Matt Rogers
I still get my best reading note on the train.
- [08:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes.
- [08:56]
Matt Rogers
I think I read most of the book on the train.
- [08:58]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [08:59]
Matt Rogers
And it felt right. I did feel like it was connected and rooted in this whole, like. Oh. Like, I'm. I am a citizen, a denizen of the city.
- [09:07]
Anna Hazniyeh
Absolutely.
- [09:08]
Matt Rogers
And, like, I am. I'm part of this grand fabric of people. And, like, you would pass, literally, the Sheridan Square stop. Yeah, I would, like. I would, like, be on the one and, like, pass Sheridan Square. I was like, it all happened upstairs, literally.
- [09:21]
Anna Hazniyeh
And Marcia, I have a dear friend, Augusto Machado, who, as part of the Angels of Light, Hot Peaches, early drag culture. Right. And Augusto talks about how Marcia would be above the Christopher street stop and be a symbol for anyone who. This is like the early 60s, right. 70s. A symbol for anyone who is coming from a place where they had to turn down the volume. Right. When they saw Marcia, they knew all of them was welcome in that space. And so that goes to what you're saying. It's like it happened right. Right above us.
- [09:54]
Matt Rogers
And as you ascend, it's like. It's like. It's like what you see, you see that. You see the vision.
- [09:58]
Bowen Yang
I mean, you write, like, so vividly about, you know, the time, like, in reading about the Stonewall riots, like, it's just. You forget when you're there now, or, like, maybe it's more top of mind now as things get, you know, more tense and over the past few years, things get more difficult. But it's so. You read about the violence in that area, but I associate it with so much joy, and it is all of those things. And you write so beautifully about, like, Marsha's lack of correct recollection, also speaking to the fact that she is, in that way, like a living document. And it is all those things. So it's really kind of. It's important, I think, to realize, like, as you walk around with that joy, it does hold that history.
- [10:46]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah, absolutely. And, like, trauma shapes our memory. Right. Like, there's so many beautiful writings and teachings about how violence and trauma affect not just, you know, like, how we feel about ourselves, but how we recall ourselves in our community. And so Marcia talked about that really beautifully. She talked about being lost in the music. Right. There's this beautiful clip where she's being interviewed in the basement of a West Village house, and she's talking about being lost in the music ever since the 1969 Stonewall Riots. And she couldn't remember what date. You know, at first she's talking about the 70s, and then like 1963. And then she's like lost in the music. The Stonewall. And then she recalled Marvin Gay. Heard it through the Grapevine. Right. And that was the music playing on the jukebox when the police raided Stonewall. And so it's this beautiful, malleable, like kind of Pisces. And she was a Virgo, but this Pisan way, you know, Are you. What's your Pisces? Cancer.
- [11:47]
Matt Rogers
Oh, my God.
- [11:48]
Bowen Yang
The way that that always happens. Oh, my God. You're like Ariana Grande. Grande was right. Yes.
- [11:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
Literally. Oh, my God, that's so funny.
- [11:57]
Bowen Yang
We find the water Trine.
- [11:58]
Matt Rogers
The water Trine.
- [11:59]
Bowen Yang
That happens a lot.
- [12:01]
Anna Hazniyeh
Okay. Well, that took it to the next level.
- [12:04]
Matt Rogers
But her sort of reconceiving that moment is Piscine in the sense that it's just like. But you know what? Cause it's trauma Shape's memory. But that memory for her, you write about how she kind of conflates that with her birthday.
- [12:18]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [12:18]
Matt Rogers
And it's still joyful in this way.
- [12:21]
Anna Hazniyeh
And it's a birthing too.
- [12:22]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [12:23]
Anna Hazniyeh
Like Stonewall birthed a new era for her. And so many. Right. It was a moment where three articles of law, three articles of clothing. Laws. Right. The police were using these laws to repress and make small transgender, non conforming people. Right. I have a dear friend, Ms. Major, who was also at Stonewall Trans Elder. And she talks about, you know, you would get arrested just for going outside. Right. Marsha would be regularly picked up by the police, whether it was in Times Square or on Christopher street, just by going outside. And what is so beautiful about that moment, too, is like she was reaching for a bigger sense of knowing that she mattered. And she did it from a place of turning over the table. Right. When we're feeling really afraid, it can be so powerful to reach for anger. Righteous anger, righteous revenge. And that was what Stonewall, for her, really was about.
- [13:18]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [13:18]
Matt Rogers
There's this thing that happens where injustice is happening right in front of you. Something bad is happening right in front of you. And there is just this, like, stasis in, like, being a bystander to those things. Someone needs to break that.
- [13:34]
Anna Hazniyeh
Someone needs to break that in order.
- [13:35]
Matt Rogers
For anything to happen.
- [13:36]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [13:37]
Matt Rogers
And it calls upon you to be like a brave person. And the fact that there were obviously brave people before Marcia and before Sylvia and before anyone who was there that night, of course. But it does just take this, like, transcendence beyond yourself. That Marsha was very tapped into spiritually to make you go, well, let's fucking, like, let's start the revolution.
- [14:02]
Anna Hazniyeh
Because it's, like, also unbearable to live in a place of fear.
- [14:05]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [14:06]
Anna Hazniyeh
Right. Like, it is. I've experienced this. I remember, like, in. You know, I've lived in New York for a long time, and I had many different kinds of expressions in New York. Like, sometimes the volume of my life is I came out of organizing. Right. So welfare, health care, housing, you know, police and prison issues. Those were the things that I was doing for a really long time before I became an artist. And it was so important for me to be with my community in that. And we were doing campaigns and kind of raising visibility, but the volume of my life and my expression was really turned down.
- [14:39]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [14:39]
Anna Hazniyeh
And it was this kind of dichotomy between that and. So I remember these moments where I was like, this is. How can I show up for other people if I'm not gonna actually be the most authentic version of myself? It costs more for my soul to be fearful than it does to actually tap into my power and be exuberant.
- [15:02]
Matt Rogers
Totally.
- [15:03]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [15:03]
Bowen Yang
Speaking of power, there's a line in this book which really. I had to read it many times because it meant so much to me. And I thought you put it so well. And I'm gonna. If I butcher it, you'll. You can correct me, but it's. Power can be wrestled out of someone who's wielding power thoughtlessly or carelessly. And it's something. I think it was speaking to the fact that, like, there was obviously. I mean, Stonewall was a riot. There was a. There was a breakout. But it's almost like the police at the time didn't know what to do with it because then they were thinking, like, wait, why exactly are we oppressing these people? What exactly. I know we're following and maintaining the rule of law, but why is the law what it is? Maybe that's worth questioning. Can you just talk about the connection between those thoughts?
- [15:47]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. Well, I think it's like, when someone is tapped into who they really are, they have more power vastly. And more clarity and better sense of timing than all of the people who don't. It takes. It severs your power, I think, on a spiritual way and an energetic way to be pushing someone down relentlessly. And so the people who were plugged into who they were, like Marcia, and took that fearless moment and were like, actually, this is not okay. Are connected to a well of resource that shapes worlds and you saw it. So I think about that all the time. It's like, with everything that's going on right now, people who are trying to erase our lives have a real kind of, like, they're not tapped in at all. They're not tapped into who they are. And so when we meet that with an abundance of spirit, an abundance of connection to those that came before and also those who are being pushed down, I think we have. We have the resources.
- [16:49]
Matt Rogers
We do, because the oppressor is not dialing up the volume on their life.
- [16:53]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's what I'm saying. That's exactly right.
- [16:57]
Matt Rogers
But we are kind of forced to. I'm saying we in this sort of general sense, like, we in our oppression, our only option is just to turn up the volume. Even though despair is, like, the thing that's supposed to happen.
- [17:11]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [17:11]
Matt Rogers
Despair is supposed to be, like, a transitional place for me. That's the thing that in my queer experience that I've learned. Are you saying that you and your drives up to Disney World are tapping into your spirituality?
- [17:25]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes, 100%. Like, literally, I'm listening to my manifesting tapes. I'm, like, listening to Laraji and my music and whatever, and it's that, to me, I'm absolutely tapping into it.
- [17:38]
Matt Rogers
What are you doing at Disney?
- [17:39]
Anna Hazniyeh
Okay, so I'm doing all of it.
- [17:40]
Bowen Yang
But where are you most spiritually tapped in?
- [17:43]
Anna Hazniyeh
Rise of the Resistance. It's literally art. I'm reading Walt Disney's biography right now. I'm, like, halfway through because, like, honestly, that I want to make art like that.
- [17:56]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [17:57]
Anna Hazniyeh
And I hope and aspire that my art builds a world that people feel invited to. That's what the point in the book is like, coming to Marcia's World that is expansive, where you get permission to actually be who you are. And so, to me, I think about other people who create on that scale, you know, and that's really my desire is, like, to create culture and art on that scale, whether through a photograph, a film, a book, or like, a theme park.
- [18:29]
Matt Rogers
Because you had an exhibit somewhere, you had a show somewhere where it was like a portal, right?
- [18:33]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. So at the Whitney Biennial, portal. And then I have work up at the Met in the Afrofuturist period room. And it's two photographs, two self portraits, one where I'm floating in midair in a spacesuit, and the other where it's like I'm back in time in the 1800s, kind of evoking this early trans figure. Mary Jones, lived on green street in Soho in the 1830s. And so the Afrofuturist period room is also like a portal, right? You get to step into a space that imagines that Seneca Village, which preceded Central park, still exists. It's this question of, like, what if we got to live freely? And then my hope is that people see in their own life, like, what if I act more freely right in this moment? In this moment. In this moment. So, yeah.
- [19:20]
Bowen Yang
Do you think, like, just to speak about, like. Cause we're talking about Disney and now it's funny. Cause we were just talking before we got on, like, they opened Epic Universe and they used portals.
- [19:29]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes, they use portals.
- [19:32]
Bowen Yang
Like that's the language that they're using. Portals into worlds, not lands, not like bridges, portals. And there is something about immersion in the sort of, you know. Oh, my God, the girl who did the very long four hour thing about Disney. The. The. The hotel.
- [19:49]
Anna Hazniyeh
I watched that.
- [19:49]
Matt Rogers
Yes, yes, yes. Lindsay something.
- [19:53]
Anna Hazniyeh
She does all these, like, long content videos.
- [19:55]
Bowen Yang
They're so good.
- [19:57]
Anna Hazniyeh
She.
- [19:57]
Bowen Yang
The hotel one was great. And she talked about this concept of immersion.
- [20:00]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes.
- [20:01]
Bowen Yang
About how, like, it really feels like, as entertainment and as experiences and as technology goes on and on and on. I think this is kind of what Westworld was obviously getting too. It's like the final frontier of entertainment and enjoying, you know, these experiences. The goal being like, full immersion. What do you think that that is? Why do you think we're there?
- [20:24]
Anna Hazniyeh
Well, I think, you know, for me, like, I make art films, right, And. Or kind of like short films. And so I always think about. This is going to sound strange, but the first one of the first films I saw was wizard of Oz, right? And I think about this moment, right, where it goes from black and white to Technicolor. And it did something to my mind, right? It's a paradigm shift. And so I think immersion is really a paradigm shift. So I have a film, Salacia, that's at Tate Modern, and It goes from 1830s New York to Sylvia Rivera on Christopher street along the Hudson river, which she called the River Jordan. And I was hoping to evoke that wizard of Oz feeling that is like black and white to Technicolor. Because when I'm immersed in something, I'm seeing it differently, right? Like you are kind of like hacking or editing your reality in a particular.
- [21:14]
Bowen Yang
Way that almost speaks to Marsha P. Johnson's recollection of the time, because she was fully immersed in the experience. And so she cannot see it clearly because she is existing within it. Whereas from the outside, there are, of course, facts about when Stonewall happens, but when you're immersed in the experience and therefore part of the atmosphere, you can't really be expected. And also, there's some joy in that.
- [21:37]
Anna Hazniyeh
And you're losing yourself into the moment. Like when artists are performing or a musician is performing on stage, it's like you're fully there. You're fully channeling.
- [21:45]
Matt Rogers
The parameters change.
- [21:46]
Anna Hazniyeh
The parameters change.
- [21:47]
Matt Rogers
And it says something about the fact that the collective recollection. Collective recollection of Stonewall, of the riot, is that no one quite knows exactly what. It's not just one person. That's not Marsha not being able to recall.
- [22:03]
Anna Hazniyeh
It's a lot of people, because it's not. My friend Leah Lakshmi writes really beautifully about how riots are not sane events. They're not neuronormative events. You're in an altered state. And I think that speaks to what you're saying is, like, you're not gonna have total recall. You're fully in this altered place.
- [22:20]
Bowen Yang
Yeah. There was not like a first brick.
- [22:22]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [22:24]
Bowen Yang
Exactly.
- [22:25]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah, exactly. Even though there were people who were first rippling out, like Marsha in the back room or Storme or, you know, like, Nova. There were people rippling, but these were popping off simultaneously. Yeah.
- [22:40]
Matt Rogers
You write so well in the book about the community that was built not even around Marcia, but just with, like, horizontally with Marcia, just sort of, like, there as a leader in this space. But it's like, it's really wild that it all is contained in the neighborhood or on Christopher Street. Like, her whole life, just her whole life began in a way. Like, her parameters changed on Christopher street at Sheridan Square. And then, you know, has this tragic, almost beautifully mysterious ending, too.
- [23:09]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's right on Christopher Street.
- [23:10]
Matt Rogers
Right on Christopher Street. And, like, and then that's where everyone celebrated her life after, you know, they spread her ashes at the river. Like, the fact that it's so local and yet so globally, like, impactful, is always what's kind of crazy to me. Like, it happened right there. Like, the start of queer liberation happened on that street where, like, there's McDonald's two blocks down or whatever.
- [23:35]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. And it used to be a stream. Like, it was one of the longest streets in New York. I kind of go into, like, the history of the city a little bit, and it was like a water. Us all being water signs. It was a water pathway. Christopher street was way hundreds of years ago, and it had a flow, and kind of, like, in a lyrical sense, it mirrored Marsha's flow. When I was writing the book at the End. I lived on Christopher Street. I lived on Christopher and Hudson. And it just, it was so trippy to experience how, you know, Marcia had a birth of a coming right at Stonewall. And then there was a moment, you know, an ending, not the ending of her, but an ending of Christopher and Hudson in the water. And so it just is, it's so profound. And how could it not raise these kinds of spiritual questions?
- [24:23]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, I really do like, like believe that. And this is where I'll get piscing and woo woo. But like there are places that just have energy. Like, and I do think that that intersection has energy. Like there is an energy there. It is thick. You are more powerful there. I will always have such gorgeous memories. This is when Bowen and I were in our mid-20s. I was dating Henry Kapersky Shout out. And he would play the piano at the downstairs duplex and we would go and Bowen would do the most incredible performance of Lady Gaga's rendition of Bang Bang by Nancy Sinatra. And I will just never forget the people coming up to the window and looking in, not knowing it would be, you know, future superstar Bowen Yang. But like, but like it's just. There was something about it. Like we were all performers there, we were all stars there. Like I remember that's where I started. Literally I started the Christmas show there.
- [25:20]
Matt Rogers
Yes.
- [25:21]
Bowen Yang
Like for 70 people upstairs. Like just seeing people go up and express themselves. And you are lended that because of the history, even if you're not conscious.
- [25:31]
Anna Hazniyeh
Of that, that's because it's woven into the place. It's woven into the energy of the place. I think that's exactly right. My friend Randy, Randy's like 83 now, but he was. Do you ever go to Julius?
- [25:43]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, of course.
- [25:44]
Anna Hazniyeh
So he led the sit in before Stonewall.
- [25:46]
Bowen Yang
Wow.
- [25:47]
Anna Hazniyeh
At Julius. You know, like this was in 1965 or something like that. A few years before Stonewall, Julius was a straight bar that refused to serve openly gay. And he went there and he led. He, you know, borrowed tactics from the black liberation movement, the civil rights movement. And he led this beautiful sit in. And so there's all of these spots that pop off like that. So much so that it's not one place, it is an abundance of places creating a very particular vibe.
- [26:15]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, it almost feels like in that it's like a true circle of queer bars and like of queer community. It does feel protective. Almost like a witchy spiritual circle. You know what I mean? It's like anything uncouth or untoward, it's like. Yeah, it Would feel like a true violation. We are protected there. And I honestly feel like the entire thing needs to be historically landmarked.
- [26:41]
Matt Rogers
Absolutely.
- [26:42]
Bowen Yang
I fear for the duplex. I do. It bothers me to know that it's just a building that could get taken down. Because it's not.
- [26:51]
Anna Hazniyeh
It's not. And I think it's interesting too, is, you know, like we are creating also the new places in that space when hundreds and hundreds of people showed up at, you know, in Sheridan Square and were like, you cannot erase the T from the National Park Service websites or erase Marsha and Sylvia. Right, Exactly. I think we're creating, you know, it's like, it was powerful then and it's powerful now, and it's summoning force. Yeah.
- [27:17]
Matt Rogers
But then you can have it show up in any form where you either have hundreds of people show up at Sheridan Squirt or you have 15,000 people show up at the Brooklyn Museum in 2020.
- [27:28]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's exactly right.
- [27:29]
Matt Rogers
That was a moment where I was like, oh my God, this is how we show up now. Because we always were like. It's so hard to visualize what it was like back then in the absence of documentation or photography. But it's like the way it proliferates now is even more sort of of functional because it's like anyone could see that from anywhere, that image anywhere. And then go there now. Or just know where to find their people or resources now.
- [27:53]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [27:54]
Matt Rogers
Which is probably most important.
- [27:59]
Bowen Yang
Okay. So there's so much to see out there on the Great White way and the Great Off Way. I don't know. What I'm saying. Is Broadway and off Broadway. And the one big recommendation I have for you when you come to town is you gotta hop on Today Tix and really get yourself going on. And I understand. It's just tough to get outside with the weather is harsh. You really have to come up with a good plan to entice you to leave your cozy little home. And if you want to dress up and be around people but not be outside for too long, there's nothing better than a night at the theater. Courtesy of Today Ticks.
- [28:28]
Matt Rogers
Today Ticks offers the best prices on tickets to shows both on and off Broadway for the winter season.
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Bowen Yang
Just download the Today Ticks app to see their offerings. From star studded cast to highly anticipated revivals, they've got a great mix of shows to pick from.
- [28:40]
Matt Rogers
I cannot recommend highly enough and I know Matt agrees with me. Sunset Boulevard, Cabaret. I cannot wait to see Death becomes her.
- [28:47]
Bowen Yang
Using today tix 3 huge smashes I've seen them all. The app is super easy to use. Find your show, pick your seat and check out in just a few taps. Then your phone is essentially your ticket.
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Matt Rogers
You can book a show in advance or be spontaneous with rush tickets available.
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Bowen Yang
In the app, unlock perks like exclusive prices, early access to pre sales, free seat upgrades and more just by joining for free and becoming a member.
- [29:07]
Matt Rogers
For me, a night on the town means dinner and a show and I cannot recommend highly enough stuff. The experience on Today ticks to make that all happen at a moment's notice.
- [29:16]
Bowen Yang
Fast, easy, fun. Go to todaytix.com ding dong and use promo code ding dong to get 20 off your first Today Ticks purchase. That's promo code Ding dong at todaytix t-ix.com Ding dong todaytix.com Ding dong this podcast is sponsored by PayPal.
- [29:31]
Matt Rogers
All right, readers, Katie's publicist finalist Kyle's it's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. That's right, it's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you, meaning you can pay your own way with just a click.
- [29:43]
Bowen Yang
Once you click the PayPal button, you can choose from a bunch of different ways to pay.
- [29:47]
Matt Rogers
You can pay later with PayPal at millions of online stores. If you choose Pay in four, you can split everyday purchases into four smaller payments. No interest, no fees.
- [29:56]
Bowen Yang
I think we've all had those chaotic, unhinged purchases.
- [29:59]
Matt Rogers
Hmm. Another way to pay is with your PayPal Debit Mastercard. You can use it online or in store and earn 5% cash back on up to one $1,000 spent in the monthly category you choose, like a payroll or ride shares. 5% cash back on a ride home from a messy first date.
- [30:13]
Bowen Yang
Yes, please Pay in store, pay online, pay over time, don't just pay PayPal. Pay in 4 is subject to approval. Eligibility varies. Learn more at paypal.com payinfor PayPal. Debit card terms and limits apply. This card is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. pursuant to a license by MasterCard International, Inc. Full terms@paypal.com rewardspal I was sort of just thinking about how if there were, like, justice, they'd be reading this in high school, you know what I mean? And I just, I feel like I'd be remiss not to talk about with you here, someone who's so involved in the literary and art community and like someone who's like, you know, out here writing really important work about queer historical figures. If you could just speak to and talk about what you're seeing in terms of like attacks on these types of books and like, things like that, and the removal of these types of really important works that explain and, you know, include people in people like Marsha P. Johnson's legacy.
- [31:13]
Anna Hazniyeh
Well, we're seeing it from obviously the highest office, political office. Right. With Trump's executive orders that are having a real material effect on our community. You know, ever since the inauguration where he was talking about their official policy of two genders. Right. I have a dear friend who tried to travel through the airport two weeks ago.
- [31:32]
Matt Rogers
I've had people.
- [31:33]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah, she was. The TSA didn't allow her to enter because she has an X on her id, a state issued id, and they also wouldn't let her leave the airport. And so we're actually seeing these. It's not just rhetoric. It's having a real concrete effect on our lives. It's also really affecting. I always want to make sure we're including, like our trans siblings who are incarcerated and so that it's having a huge effect on incarcerated people. And it's also affecting the classroom. Right. And these institutions of art and creativity. We saw the National Endowment of Arts today, Museums where my work is up mass. MOCA just made an announcement that the NEA is withdrawing funding. So we're really seeing in real time affect. Yeah. Our political landscape.
- [32:22]
Matt Rogers
So many organizations of any size are like losing out on all this NEA stuff where like baffo, I heard. Yeah, Boffo is losing out on NEA stuff. Like a lot of these. The only way that I have known how to be present because of scheduling stuff and like, I literally can't even like show up, like in any place outside of. Outside of work right now. It's like, okay, like, Boffo's raising funds. Let's go there. Let's drop some cash there. Let's drop some cash for the doll invasion in August.
- [32:49]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes.
- [32:49]
Matt Rogers
Like, let's just like, like plop some little windfalls wherever we. Like, we as in me. Like, I'm trying to do that in the only way that I know how now. Because it's like we cannot feel helpless in this moment.
- [33:00]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [33:01]
Matt Rogers
Despair has to be a transitional phase. It cannot be the terminus.
- [33:03]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's exactly right. I think to me, you know, an organization that's near and dear to my heart is the Trans Justice Funding Project. So I've been raising funds for Trans Justice Funding Project, which funds. It gives funds to rural grassroots organizations throughout the South First Nation organizations which are really important places that are not necessarily just on the coast. And so I always like to bring up.
- [33:25]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [33:26]
Anna Hazniyeh
God.
- [33:26]
Matt Rogers
I mean, is it. How much of this do you have to sort of, like, hold in your mind? Like, at any given time, I feel like you are in your work. You are so expansive in the people that you think about that. I feel like there must be some weight to that.
- [33:41]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. I think part of it is I've been doing this for a long time, Right. And there are moments that evoke an incredible amount of grief. Seeing loved ones die from lack of care or from violence is definitely, like, a part of my story. This moment, for whatever reason, I also feel tapped into a sense of hope because I have come to a place where I firmly believe the bigger the problem, the bigger the solution, and that solutions are created from problems. And that when we pivot our focus from not, you know, it's really important to talk about the bad things going on, but also when we pivot to, well, how are we showing up in the world? You were just doing that. I think that's really magnetic. Compelling energy. More and more people are looking for, who are the helpers? I think it was like, Mr. Rogers who was like, look for the helpers. Right. I firmly believe that now is like, who are the helpers? In our community, we know things are so hard, and when I do that, I feel lighter. Like, I have a greater sense of clarity. It's like when I clean. Similarly, I have a greater sense of clarity. And also when I'm looking for the helpers and looking for the solutions and driving to Disney, literally, honestly, driving to Disney. Tiana is her seven doors.
- [34:59]
Bowen Yang
I have yet to do Tiana's Bayou Adventure.
- [35:01]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, really? It broke down when I was on the top.
- [35:03]
Bowen Yang
It stays breaking down.
- [35:05]
Anna Hazniyeh
It stays breaking down. But it was really cool because we got to leave through the back door and see everything, which was. I mean, I love the backstage. Yeah.
- [35:13]
Bowen Yang
We were on Tower of the Terror when it broke down.
- [35:15]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, my God.
- [35:16]
Bowen Yang
We were high as a kite.
- [35:18]
Matt Rogers
We were high as a kite.
- [35:18]
Bowen Yang
And we were like. And, like, they come. They come out of, like, a. You know, like a hallway with fluorescent, like, lighting, and they're like, hey, you guys have to come down. And you literally walked.
- [35:27]
Anna Hazniyeh
That would be my nightmare.
- [35:28]
Matt Rogers
It was.
- [35:29]
Bowen Yang
We were so high.
- [35:30]
Matt Rogers
Oh, my God.
- [35:31]
Bowen Yang
But it was hilarious because then we took an actual, actual elevator.
- [35:33]
Matt Rogers
Elevator down to the ground floor. We were dying.
- [35:36]
Anna Hazniyeh
We were like, okay, drop along the way.
- [35:38]
Matt Rogers
No, drop.
- [35:40]
Bowen Yang
All we did was rise. And so then there was that thing of, like, in your head when you're expecting one thing, but then it never comes.
- [35:47]
Anna Hazniyeh
So we kept, like, being like, that was me and Tiana's. We were. We stopped literally before the last is, like, up.
- [35:54]
Bowen Yang
I have to go see it for so many reasons. That's my co star.
- [35:57]
Anna Hazniyeh
I love that.
- [35:58]
Bowen Yang
Oh, Jennifer is a legend, but it's like AOC on her, like, Fight the Oligarchy tour. One of the things she's been speaking to, and I do think it's so important, and it's something that I struggle with, you know, over the past six weeks, like, I find myself, like, traveling a lot and, like, doing some things that are making me happy and taking opportunities. And I. There is, like, a degree of guilt because I. Every time I turn on the news, it feels like devastation, it feels like depression. It feels like more darkness encroaching. But one thing she said was that you have to take your opportunities to feel joy.
- [36:31]
Anna Hazniyeh
I remember hearing that because it could.
- [36:33]
Bowen Yang
Be so easy right now to forget. And then you forget what you're fighting for.
- [36:37]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. And also when you. I have found. I don't know if you have, but when I'm in a more joyful place, I have a greater capacity to show up for people in my life. It's like the plug is plugged into the electricity in my joy. And so I can be channeling solutions more. And when I'm just vibing in despair, I don't necessarily lose that capacity, but it shows that it's diminished, at least for me.
- [36:59]
Matt Rogers
Of course.
- [37:00]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [37:00]
Matt Rogers
And is this part of the imagination for the theme park, which is. That is kind of the ultimate place for July.
- [37:06]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes. Okay. Thank you for seeing me.
- [37:08]
Bowen Yang
Of course.
- [37:08]
Matt Rogers
But no, you're trying to park girls.
- [37:11]
Anna Hazniyeh
Okay. Fab.
- [37:13]
Bowen Yang
From a young age. And I do think it did come out of, like, honestly, I think my obsession with it started when I was 7 or 8. We were just talking about this because Bowen and I went to Epic Universe. They were kind enough to invite us to see it, and we're gonna be at the grand opening.
- [37:28]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, my God.
- [37:29]
Bowen Yang
And it's so exciting.
- [37:31]
Anna Hazniyeh
May 22nd.
- [37:31]
Bowen Yang
May 22nd.
- [37:34]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.
- [37:35]
Bowen Yang
So. So we're gonna be there. And we were being asked because they filmed us doing. They filmed us on the GoPro doing the Stardust Racers.
- [37:42]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, my God.
- [37:43]
Bowen Yang
So we were asked, we were online, like, about our experiences with theme parks. And I said, I've been a Universal Parks fan since I was 7 or 8. And I went on the Back to the Future ride. And I remember in it, I didn't understand that immersive entertainment like that. And I think it made me want to be creative and I think that's why it's important. And that's why I. I get on my soapbox so much about them lowering those goddamn prices. Because families need to be able to experience that. That is what Walt would have wanted, et cetera. But my thing is, it is really formative for a young kid. Like, we went into the Super Nintendo world and I was. My sister, who's a grown ass woman, like, walked in and has tears in her eyes and I'm like, yeah, imagine being a child.
- [38:24]
Matt Rogers
Like, it's crazy.
- [38:26]
Bowen Yang
Those experiences are so special.
- [38:28]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. I can only go so often. Cause of the Florida discount.
- [38:31]
Bowen Yang
Well, yes.
- [38:32]
Anna Hazniyeh
Which is incredible. It's like, it's much more discounted. Everyone should have access to places that help them plug in their light to have a greater sense of imagination. You know, there's this moment where I think it's Kevin Costner talking about riding the original Disney rides over and over and over again. My whole YouTube algorithm is theme parks.
- [38:53]
Bowen Yang
Okay, me too. I'll just be on, like, literally that's.
- [38:57]
Anna Hazniyeh
The only thing that comes after theme park Shark.
- [39:00]
Bowen Yang
I'll be listening to Alicia Stella's podcast.
- [39:02]
Anna Hazniyeh
Literally.
- [39:03]
Bowen Yang
Shout out Alicia, you are amazing.
- [39:04]
Matt Rogers
Oh, Jenny Nicholson, by the way, we forgot her name.
- [39:08]
Bowen Yang
She's a legend. But like, I'm not bio reconstruct. Looking at the. What is your. What's your algorithm?
- [39:13]
Anna Hazniyeh
Okay, so it's all like epic Disney and then like manifesting. That's literally all it is.
- [39:20]
Matt Rogers
That's a great little trio. That's really good.
- [39:23]
Bowen Yang
And they talk to each other.
- [39:25]
Anna Hazniyeh
They literally talk to each other. Because you have to, like, for me, at least, I have to imagine it into being. Right? Yeah. And Marcia was doing that. I write a little bit about the hot spring hotels in Times Square. Right. These were hourly hotels where, you know, you literally would be arrested if you were a trans person expressing any part of your authenticity in Times Square. Right.
- [39:46]
Bowen Yang
Because they would assume it was solicitation.
- [39:47]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly. And these laws actually stayed into the books. You know, 2020 was when the three articles.
- [39:53]
Matt Rogers
I was gonn.
- [39:54]
Anna Hazniyeh
Andrew Cuomo former governor. Right. And so Marsha, when they could hustle a little bit of money, they would rent these hourly hotels and they called them hot spring hotels because whether whatever season it was, it was always really hot. But these were places where they would dream their life into being. Right. They would have a little bit of relief from the police and violence on the street, and they would ask each other again and again and again. Like, what would it feel like to be able to move through the world with a greater sense of ease or a greater sense of freedom? And so to me, those places, whether it's the hourly hotel or a Disney theme park or epic, those are the places that we get to, at least for me. Imagine a world where we get to show up more free and more playful. Yeah.
- [40:40]
Matt Rogers
The site specificity is important because I was gonna say even the porn theaters in Times Square would be places where they would just stay all day.
- [40:47]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [40:48]
Matt Rogers
And think. And just they were being a little. Little black box space, whatever. Like the world was at some remove.
- [40:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [40:55]
Matt Rogers
So that they could, like, access this, like, imagination. Imagination a little bit better.
- [41:00]
Anna Hazniyeh
And Samuel Delaney, I don't know if you've read, like, Times Square Red, Times Square Blue, writes about it. Really beautiful. But, you know, and also, Marcia came from a place of, like, kind of naivete. Right. Like, she was, you know, she was working at Child's Restaurant, so she was a waitress. And then she was befriending these street queens, like Sylvia, who was 13, if you can only imagine.
- [41:19]
Bowen Yang
That's insane.
- [41:21]
Anna Hazniyeh
Literally. And then was going. And there's this interview where she's talking about, oh, like, you won't lick that man's toes. You know, her mind kept getting blown by this imagery and being like, oh, I guess people are doing these things. So it was really powerful to read that part.
- [41:37]
Matt Rogers
It's a portal.
- [41:38]
Anna Hazniyeh
It's a portal.
- [41:39]
Matt Rogers
It's a portal. And do you feel this way about children's literature? Like, our friend Julio was telling us he wrote this beautiful children's book and whatever. I did a book event with him. I was like, what inspired you to write children's literature? And he was like, it's the most politically powerful medium that we have.
- [41:56]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. So I also wrote a children's book that comes out the same day. It's called One Day in June. And it starts with a caretaker with a little one on Reese Beach. I don't know if y' all go to Urban.
- [42:08]
Matt Rogers
Yes, of course. We love it.
- [42:08]
Anna Hazniyeh
Queer Haven Sanctuary. And then it goes up to Raquel Willis's speech at the Brooklyn Museum with 15,000 people. And it's really about channeling that frequency just like a radio station of martial arts and how she is in the everyday. She's in the permission to be all of who we are. She's in, you know, worker who is giving her tips to someone who can't afford to buy their kid ice cream. She's in the dancing at Raul, she's, you know, or the club, you know, it's like all of this vibe is very available. And to me, in a moment when young ones, kids are being told really firmly that either they don't exist, that their truth is wrong and they need to change, or they're just turning the dial of their life and truth down. It was really important to have a book that's not that that's we're giving ourselves permission to play and to try new things and also to connect it to a history that is still so palpable.
- [43:08]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. Talk about this really interesting metaphor that I feel like you're returning to, which is turning up the volume, adjusting to the frequency, like plugging in. It feels like they're. Feel like you're describing life in a way or just like, you know, the human experience in a way that is very like that's a toggle. Or that can be like modulated in a sense, because. And in a way, I kind of. Not in a way. I really do love that.
- [43:33]
Bowen Yang
Yes, beautiful.
- [43:34]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's just how I've come to experience the world. That there is something underpinning all of our experience. And whether you call that like God or the universe or source or joy, which is just another word for it, you can readily tune to that wherever you are. And so a lot of times when you're feeling fear, the path of least resistance to that is to get really angry about the situation. That brings you closer to a feeling of clarity and joy and that frequency that's fully available. So to me, part of that is just like a basis of manifesting. And so there are people who are talking about manifesting or bring things into the material. But I really believe that there is a martial frequency, you know, like a joy frequency that when we're feeling all of who we are and we're inviting all aspects of ourself into the room, we have a clear, clear access to that.
- [44:30]
Matt Rogers
Those are really wonderful thing about listening to Marcia's voice that I found I've like pressed play on videos or just like there's footage of her in your film Happy Birthday, Marcia, where I could just listen to her talk all day. She would have torn it up on a podcast.
- [44:48]
Bowen Yang
Literally.
- [44:49]
Matt Rogers
You know what I mean?
- [44:50]
Anna Hazniyeh
Literally. She's hilarious. So funny. I mean, she's so funny. Original. And I was here yesterday cause my friend Raquel Willis is doing a podcast about Marcia called Afterlife. And she was talking about seeing these YouTube clips of Marcia that Randy Ricker was filming And Marcia just has great timing. You know, she's like, get your heart ready for heart failure to the filmer. Right? And then she's like, and then I'll get the camera, you know, like, you're gonna expire cause of my outfit, and then I'm gonna jack your camera. And it's just like these bits that she was always doing. And she modeled herself a lot of her performance work off of Billy Brian Burke, who was the original Glenda. Exactly. And was a vaudeville actress. And so Marcia did this.
- [45:33]
Matt Rogers
She was playing the ditch. She was like, the bimbo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [45:36]
Anna Hazniyeh
She was playing the bimbo. And she was well aware, like, there was a moment when she was in the West End in London, the only time she really traveled from the US and she was at Drill hall, which is now RADA Studios, and she was performing the ditz. And the audience didn't get it. Like, people were writing. Like, Marcia must have be having an off night because she's not quite hitting the notes, you know, or she's not really remembering her lines. But that was her Persona, and she did it so well. And just one week before she died, she said, I love when people think I'm just a ditz or a silly little street queen because I can work them out of their money. Like, she was well aware from childhood. She was in a chorus with her brother Bob and her sister Jeannie in Elizabeth, New Jersey, and they used to go around to the neighbors and sing for months, and she would sing completely off key. And Jeannie Michaels is like. But they always gave her the money, and it was because she was doing this on purpose. Yeah, yeah. They loved to see a little kid, like, go all over the scale, and they'd just be like, oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah.
- [46:43]
Matt Rogers
A true performer.
- [46:44]
Anna Hazniyeh
A true performer. Exactly. Yeah.
- [46:48]
Matt Rogers
This is Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers.
- [46:50]
Bowen Yang
From Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.
- [46:56]
Matt Rogers
All right, readers, Katie's publicist finalist, Kyle's. It's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. That's right. It's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you. Meaning you can pay your own way with just a click.
- [47:07]
Bowen Yang
Once you click the PayPal button, you can choose from a bunch of different ways to pay.
- [47:11]
Matt Rogers
You can Pay later with PayPal at millions of online stores. If you choose Pay in four, you can split everyday purchases into four smaller payments. No interest, no fees.
- [47:20]
Bowen Yang
I think we've all had those chaotic, unhinged purchases.
- [47:24]
Matt Rogers
Another way to pay is with your PayPal Debit Mastercard. You can use it online or in store and earn 5% cash back on up to $1,000 spent in the monthly category you choose, like apparel or ride shares. 5% cash back on a ride home from a messy first date.
- [47:38]
Bowen Yang
Yes, please pay in store, pay online, pay over time. Don't just pay PayPal Pay in 4 is subject to approval. Eligibility varies. Learn more at paypal.com forward/payinfor PayPal debit card terms and limits apply. This card is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to a license by MasterCard International, Inc. Full terms@paypal.com rewards pal speaking of conjuring up the childhood memories, etc, we have to ask you the question.
- [48:07]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes.
- [48:07]
Bowen Yang
The central question of lost cultures, which is what was the culture that made you say culture was for me, like that formative element of whatever kind of pop culture or culture in general that made you.
- [48:20]
Matt Rogers
You.
- [48:20]
Bowen Yang
You feel.
- [48:20]
Anna Hazniyeh
Well, we talked about wizard of Oz, but. But also with my dad, I went to matinee films. Cause they were cheaper and we saw literally like every single Eddie Murphy movie.
- [48:30]
Bowen Yang
Oh my God, that's so funny you say that.
- [48:31]
Anna Hazniyeh
Really.
- [48:32]
Bowen Yang
My dad did the same thing with Eddie Murphy. It was the only movie that he was like, we're getting in the car.
- [48:37]
Anna Hazniyeh
And my dad kind of styled himself off of Eddie Murphy. And so, you know, it was all of it. Right. But I remember Harlem Nights with Della Reese and those costumes and Richard Pryor and then, you know, later, the wizard with Richard Pryor and the emerald sequence scene. But it was really that humor.
- [48:55]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [48:57]
Anna Hazniyeh
Which I lost for a little while. But I remember that we went to have a good time, we went to have fun. And it was like everything Eddie Murphy. And so that really was like, jealousy is a good indicator for me because it shows me what I want to be doing. And so when I'm like, jealous about someone's career, it's not like I hope they don't have it. I'm like, I want to be doing that thing, jealousy.
- [49:19]
Bowen Yang
That's really important.
- [49:20]
Anna Hazniyeh
And so it's like I can remember being jealous as a little kid of all these people who got to act on stage and be like, I want to be doing that.
- [49:30]
Bowen Yang
And you get it in your head, like, you hate them.
- [49:33]
Anna Hazniyeh
You get it in your head that you hate them, but you really just want to do what they're doing but don't know how to do it. That's all that jealousy is. And so to me, I was like, I can just Remember being Harlem Nights. Beverly Hills. All of the Beverly Hills crops. Like, golden child. All of them were. I was just like, I want to be one of these people on screen. Like, having a ball, having a tea. Yeah.
- [49:56]
Matt Rogers
I was jealous of Raven for being in Dr. Dolittle 2.
- [49:59]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, my God, yes.
- [50:00]
Matt Rogers
Cause, like, she gets to play Eddie Murphy's daughter. I don't know why.
- [50:03]
Anna Hazniyeh
I was like, totally.
- [50:04]
Bowen Yang
I want to be Eddie's son. My dad put me in that car and said, get in the car. And we went to see Nutty Professor 2.
- [50:11]
Matt Rogers
Mind blowing.
- [50:12]
Anna Hazniyeh
The clumps. Oh, my. The clumps.
- [50:14]
Bowen Yang
With Janet Jackson.
- [50:15]
Matt Rogers
Janet in the second one, I. I.
- [50:17]
Bowen Yang
Could tell it was for him.
- [50:19]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes, totally.
- [50:19]
Bowen Yang
But I had so much joy because my dad was sharing something explicitly with, and he never took me to the movies. It was that, I told you, Good.
- [50:26]
Matt Rogers
Burger and Good Burger, but Eddie doing drag and so many movies.
- [50:31]
Anna Hazniyeh
It was valuable.
- [50:32]
Matt Rogers
Mind blowing.
- [50:33]
Anna Hazniyeh
It's mind blowing, child. Yeah. It really is.
- [50:35]
Matt Rogers
Where'd you grow up?
- [50:35]
Anna Hazniyeh
I grew up in Roxbury, which is a part of Boston.
- [50:38]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then also, it's so cool that mass mocha like that.
- [50:41]
Anna Hazniyeh
You're like, that's amazing. Yeah, exactly.
- [50:43]
Matt Rogers
But okay, can we do an assessment as a group about the movie, Norbit? Because I saw it stoned out of my mind in high school, and I've yet to rewatch it, and I'm nervous to revisit it because I'm like, this is gonna be so. This is gonna be so chaotic for so many reasons. But is it worth, like, I'm like, do I just go home and watch Norbit sometime soon?
- [51:03]
Anna Hazniyeh
I think so. I think so. He's a genius.
- [51:05]
Matt Rogers
He's a genius.
- [51:06]
Anna Hazniyeh
He's a literal. And he's also kind of ahead of the curve in a very particular, consistent way where I feel like so much later you might be picking up something that you didn't see at first.
- [51:18]
Bowen Yang
I feel like something, though, that, like, fucking sucks to have to tackle this type of thing. But I feel like we're talking about a couple things where there are, like, there's elephants in the room.
- [51:26]
Anna Hazniyeh
Right.
- [51:27]
Bowen Yang
There's an elephant in the room with Eddie Murphy's homophobia. There's an elephant in the room with Epic Universe having Harry Potter and the J.K. rowling.
- [51:34]
Anna Hazniyeh
Absolutely.
- [51:35]
Bowen Yang
I just wonder, like, how do you personally navigate that and filter that? Because I find myself having a really hard time with it.
- [51:42]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah, of course.
- [51:42]
Bowen Yang
These are in the past.
- [51:44]
Matt Rogers
I think it's.
- [51:45]
Anna Hazniyeh
You know, it's interesting because when I Say my dad really, like, styled George Gossett Jr. Himself off of Eddie. Like, it was all of it. It was also the homophobia and transphobia. Right. And he died in 2010. And in a similar way that I have a kind of like, spiritual relationship with Marcia, I have one with my dad. Where it is really easy to see now that people who are saying the most kind of like, intense, vile things also around HIV and AIDS and, you know, like, it's all of that are either like, not surrounded by our community. Right. Which in. In and of itself is. You're missing out on such a blessing.
- [52:27]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [52:28]
Anna Hazniyeh
So that's like a place of. Girl, like, you are really missing out. Yeah. It's not true. You know, like, it sucks for you. And then also when people are doing that, it's so clear. No one who's feeling really good about themselves is consistently attacking another person. I just don't think. I can't. I don't think that you can be in a place of joy and also be pushing against someone.
- [52:49]
Bowen Yang
No. She's not happy sitting in her house.
- [52:51]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's what I'm saying on Twitter all day. And so to me, I'm like, I just have a place of. I think I give like, maybe Eddie Murphy a lot of grace around. Okay.
- [53:00]
Matt Rogers
You were young and that's a long.
- [53:02]
Bowen Yang
Time ago and doing long time ago.
- [53:04]
Anna Hazniyeh
Fame from a family that maybe, I don't know, I'm just like, you're a famous young black person and all of a sudden everything that you're saying is the talk of the town.
- [53:14]
Bowen Yang
Of course.
- [53:15]
Anna Hazniyeh
And so it's not like my dad who says homophobic things and then no one knows about, but it's everywhere. And so to me, I'm like, oh, this is so sad for you. And also, I just. I don't know, I have such a warm spot in my heart around Eddie Murphy, maybe. Because.
- [53:31]
Matt Rogers
And.
- [53:31]
Anna Hazniyeh
And with J.K. rowling, she seems so miserable.
- [53:35]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [53:36]
Anna Hazniyeh
And I'm just like, what's going on there, girl? Like, something is going on because you are so going out of your way to attack my community when we're literally just being alive.
- [53:48]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [53:49]
Anna Hazniyeh
And then the celebration of the UK Supreme Court. I don't know if y' all saw. Yeah.
- [53:54]
Matt Rogers
It's disgusting.
- [53:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
There's something so intense going on if a symbol of freedom, a symbol of expansiveness is causing such a knee jerk response that you have to go out of your way to attack it. And so I'm like, you are not connected to what I'm about.
- [54:11]
Bowen Yang
Right.
- [54:11]
Anna Hazniyeh
Like you can't be in a place of pleasure and happiness and joy when you're going out of your way to do that. And so with her, I'm just like, bless you on your journey. You're either gonna figure it out now or like when you're immaterial and immaterial.
- [54:28]
Matt Rogers
My only, the only way I can rationalize it with her is that it's like, oh, you got so rich and famous off of writing this morality tale that your set of morals, your code of morals is sort of indisputable and it's the only thing. It's the only correct thing in the world. And that she, the mechanism by which she's putting down trans people is by victimizing CIS women in a way that is like, more dire than what's literally in a way that it's like, not happening. It's like, like it's fabricated.
- [54:56]
Anna Hazniyeh
It's completely. All of it is fabricated. Right. The fear is completely fabricated because the scary things that they're talking about aren't being committed or produced by trans and gender non conforming people, which are such a small part of the population and are like, we're just trying to live. This is a fabricated fear response to either not being able to figure out the economy. So you're blaming transfids. You know, it's like.
- [55:20]
Matt Rogers
Yep.
- [55:20]
Anna Hazniyeh
And. Or whatever's going on with jk, like, not being able to figure out her own stuff. And so to me, yeah, it's. It's completely. Did y' all go into the Harry Potter ride?
- [55:29]
Bowen Yang
We, I mean, we did.
- [55:31]
Anna Hazniyeh
Speaking of.
- [55:32]
Bowen Yang
I mean, here's the thing. The thing is, like, this is my. And I struggled.
- [55:36]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [55:36]
Bowen Yang
And my thing was like, you know what? I just thought about relatives that I have that now have really gone hard for Trump.
- [55:44]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [55:44]
Bowen Yang
And I can't recognize them from what they were when I was growing. And the fact is, they're not the same person, but they will not take my memories of them from when I was a kid. And so I kind of just said, like, you know what? She is not gonna ruin this thing for me. That like, again, made me wanna be creative, made me wanna be who I am.
- [56:08]
Anna Hazniyeh
I love that.
- [56:09]
Bowen Yang
And my thing is just like, I'm just not gonna let her have that. I'm not gonna let her cloud.
- [56:14]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's right.
- [56:14]
Bowen Yang
Like, ruin the. This experience for me. And the thing too is just like, you know what's great? The Dark Universe.
- [56:20]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah, that's what I mean.
- [56:21]
Bowen Yang
The Dark Universe is amazing.
- [56:22]
Matt Rogers
And how to Turn youn Dragon Universe. Which we had. I've never seen the movies. I loved it.
- [56:26]
Anna Hazniyeh
Totally. I love that. Okay. That's wonderful.
- [56:28]
Bowen Yang
The Harry Potter thing is. I understand why they did it, because it's such a catch.
- [56:32]
Matt Rogers
And ikea.
- [56:33]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah, of course.
- [56:34]
Bowen Yang
And I will say, the ride is actually kind of cunty because it's like Dolores Umbridge's trial. And I'm like, God damn it. Why am I walking in here having feelings when it's like a trial ride? It's, like, so gay. You know what I mean? And it's like, you're walking in, and it's like, she's on trial. We're gonna watch her be named guilty. And she catches Free, and Imelda Staunton comes back and gives, like, a fierce performance, and you're like, oh, God, jk, shut the fuck up.
- [56:59]
Anna Hazniyeh
Shut the fuck up.
- [57:02]
Matt Rogers
That's. Honestly.
- [57:03]
Bowen Yang
But where are you at with it? Will you go in there?
- [57:05]
Anna Hazniyeh
I mean. Yeah, you know?
- [57:07]
Matt Rogers
Cause you. Cause it's like, you would not be abandoning anything about your transness by going there necessarily. Wasn't it kind of. Of revolution? Isn't it? Like, people showing up to places where they're not wanted is kind of like, yeah, yeah, sure. Not the revolutionary thing to do, but.
- [57:21]
Anna Hazniyeh
Kind of like the transformative. To be in a place where they're not up to speed with your beauty or your value or your worth or your deservingness and to just not turn your dial to that, but to, like, actually, I belong everywhere I go.
- [57:36]
Bowen Yang
Right? Exactly.
- [57:37]
Anna Hazniyeh
Including this place that I love.
- [57:39]
Bowen Yang
Yeah. Especially as, like. As someone who's like. Like, it's such a crazy moment in theme park history, too. Like, it's like the epic universe of it all, by the way. It is that good. Like, the hype is so real. It's like, the first time in 25 years that they've opened, like, a major theme park like that. And it's like. It's just what they've done with the theme park technology. You're going to be so gagged for this Monsters Unchained ride. Like, it's really good. And just, like, the story that they tell with that. We've been joking about Victoria Frankenstein on this podcast for a year. It's a gag.
- [58:11]
Anna Hazniyeh
I love that.
- [58:11]
Matt Rogers
She's a queen. Oh, my God.
- [58:13]
Bowen Yang
She's definitely a queen. She might be winning culture awards.
- [58:15]
Matt Rogers
She's gonna win a culture award.
- [58:16]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, my God.
- [58:19]
Bowen Yang
But it's a lot of fun. And we are the ambassadors of Celestial Park.
- [58:24]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's right. The Hubland.
- [58:26]
Bowen Yang
It's our Official title now.
- [58:27]
Anna Hazniyeh
I heard it was also like that. The Hubland's pretty chill.
- [58:30]
Matt Rogers
It's very chill.
- [58:31]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. And so it's like, if you're overstimulated, maybe you go to Celestial park or whatever.
- [58:35]
Bowen Yang
It feels like Epcot in that way.
- [58:37]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [58:37]
Bowen Yang
You know what I mean?
- [58:38]
Anna Hazniyeh
I was just at Epcot for the flower garden festival. It's beautif.
- [58:41]
Matt Rogers
Beautiful.
- [58:41]
Anna Hazniyeh
So beautiful. I felt like the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens with Guardians of Galaxy.
- [58:45]
Matt Rogers
I know.
- [58:46]
Bowen Yang
The thing I was most gagged by were those bonsai trees.
- [58:49]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes.
- [58:51]
Matt Rogers
700 year old bonsai trees that are just out there.
- [58:53]
Anna Hazniyeh
It's crazy.
- [58:54]
Bowen Yang
Oh, my God.
- [58:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
And then, of course, I love to.
- [58:56]
Bowen Yang
Go for food and wine.
- [58:57]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [58:58]
Bowen Yang
I'll just go in there by myself and knock down some apps. Oh, my God. They were in technical rehearsal when we did it, right. So I could tell there was like some fog effects and some stuff turned off.
- [59:11]
Anna Hazniyeh
Okay.
- [59:12]
Bowen Yang
They're gonna figure it out.
- [59:13]
Anna Hazniyeh
I'm excited.
- [59:13]
Matt Rogers
Does newness kind of like have this counterforce to it where it's like, it makes you nostalgic? Cause going to Epic made me want to go to Universal and just go on the old rides or just go to Disney and go on the classic rides too. And I'm just like, oh, this kind of opens it up to everything for me, where I'm like, I want to do it all.
- [59:29]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. Honestly, part of, you know, not to with Marcia is like, part of when drag became so pop culture, I was so interested in the origins. Right. Like, I don't know if you're familiar with the Angels of Light, but they came out of the Cockettes in the Bay. Glitter beards. Like, so many of the looks that we're seeing these days came from, like, Marcia, Angels of Light, and also the Hot peaches. Right. These early 60s 70s performers. And so to me, I'm always about, like, that nostalgia. I'm a cancer. So, like, the nostalgia of it all. But, yeah, I fall into that. I went to Islands of Adventure for the first time when I was 16 in 2000, and it blew my mind. There was like the Dueling Dragons and all of that. And then I went. I hadn't gone back for so many years, and I wasn't sure, like, how's it gonna. Is it gonna feel comfortable? Is it gonna feel safe? And the thing that I really was paying attention was like, I remember when this. When I was this year old and I was blown away, and now it's like evolved into this other beautiful thing that's capturing my imagination. So I'm Kinda like in between that nostalgia and the. Wow. Evolution of it all.
- [60:35]
Matt Rogers
And, like, I. I think I went to, like, a La Mama show.
- [60:38]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, La mama.
- [60:39]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, like 10 years ago or something. And, like, I think you, like, shed light on, like, the way that, like, all these different theater communities were intertwined together, especially in the 70s or especially when Marcia was performing in them. So, like, was. It was Hot Peaches and Angels of Light. Was that coming from, like, theater for the New City? No, like, break it down for me.
- [60:57]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. So, okay, so Marcia performed at Theater of the New City with the Angels of Light, so by the Jane Hotel right now. And also La Mama and all of these really beautiful places. The Hibiscus came out of the Cockettes and Angel Jack. And so they really created something that had never been seen before. Right. Their performances included, like, the enchanted miracle where a big storybook was on stage, and for each new scene, the page would be turned. It was this, like, you know, technology. Right. This immersive experience that the audience was really getting into. And Marcia did this really great thing of direct address with the audience.
- [61:34]
Matt Rogers
They just let her riff. They just let her.
- [61:35]
Anna Hazniyeh
They let her riff because she was so good. She'd be like, hello, Sylvia. You know, and there's this beautiful recording of Sylvia Rivera, who I think a lot of times we just think of as an activist.
- [61:45]
Matt Rogers
Sure.
- [61:45]
Anna Hazniyeh
But she's talking about seeing Marcia on stage dressed as a queen from a faraway land and, like, going after this person who stole her lover and is just screaming at the top of the lungs. At the top of her lungs. And the audience is crying and getting more and more ecstatic. And Marcia was plugging in the light for so many people in that moment. So I think that was. That early kind of drag performance work, was plugging in the light for the audience that was growing. Yeah.
- [62:16]
Matt Rogers
I love that you speak in this metaphor.
- [62:19]
Anna Hazniyeh
Really.
- [62:20]
Matt Rogers
That's such a great model for anyone would be so lucky to create a space where people go to play plug to plug in.
- [62:27]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [62:28]
Matt Rogers
You know what I mean?
- [62:28]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly. And I think that's what culture at its best does, and that's what your podcast does. Like, you're both doing it all the time. I was watching episodes of Game Show. You know what I mean? Like, you're a new world.
- [62:37]
Bowen Yang
You're totally.
- [62:39]
Anna Hazniyeh
And, you know, like, you've been like, we're all doing it. Right. Like. And I think that's what we're aspiring to do is, like, create spaces, whether it's a podcast or a game show or snl Or a film where we're an art. We're able to plug in and we're able to leave transformed. We're able to go from black and white to Technicolor. We're able to, like, go through the portal and experience something incredibly immersive and then be like, I can do that. I can do that. And it doesn't have to stay right here. I can do it everywhere.
- [63:05]
Bowen Yang
One of my favorite lines from any piece of art I've seen or I've heard over the past couple years is there's this play, the Hills of California, that's on Broadway now. And there's this beautiful part where she goes over to the piano, the character, and she says, you know, talking about music and talking about songs, she's like, a song is just a place to live for three minutes.
- [63:27]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes.
- [63:28]
Bowen Yang
And I was just like, that's why music is my escape. And that connected to everything from when I was younger about that thing of, like, walking into this area where all of a sudden it was something else. It was just like. I think that that is another reason why a lot of queer people gravitate towards those theme parks.
- [63:46]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's exactly.
- [63:47]
Bowen Yang
Cause there is a big gay community. Because I think. Think what I was saying earlier was I didn't realize it, but I needed a place to be that wasn't my own head or my own reality. Because there was this thing encroaching, which was, you don't belong here. You don't belong here. You don't belong here. And suddenly it didn't matter what the rules were. In a world that's fake and immersive. That's exactly So a song is a place to live for three minutes. It's like, when I feel like I want to escape whatever it is, I will put on a song that elicits a certain emotion. Because in that emotion, it's also changing the reality.
- [64:20]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's exactly right. And you're moving from sometimes a place of despair to a place of anger, to a place of, like, you know, optimism, to a place of hope, and then to a place of, like, positive expectation and knowing that things are gonna be okay. And that's the song's power.
- [64:34]
Bowen Yang
Yes. Or even if it's not escaping, it's. I'm angry and I wanna feel this at 15 out of 10.
- [64:41]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [64:41]
Bowen Yang
You know what I mean? Like, put on Kinkus Karma by Chapel Roan. I hate my ex boyfriend. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I need to sob. Cause I'm grieving. I Need to. I want to party Solace to this party song. I want to feel like I. You know what I'm saying? It's like it's turning up the volume.
- [65:01]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's exactly right on that emotion. Yeah, that's exactly right.
- [65:04]
Matt Rogers
I am curious to know, like, are you done with New York for good, or are you like.
- [65:09]
Anna Hazniyeh
Totally. So I moved to Miami. Cause my partner is an environmental lawyer, and she is. That's where she's working. And there's. So I moved after 22 years. I was saying, like, I hadn't left New York for longer than three weeks.
- [65:22]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, you're a double life.
- [65:23]
Matt Rogers
You did your time. You know, that's my basket.
- [65:25]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. I like the time I left the longest was I was working for Dee Reese, who directed Pariah and Bessie and Mudbound, and I was her assistant.
- [65:34]
Matt Rogers
Wow.
- [65:36]
Anna Hazniyeh
It was a great film. So for Mudbound and, you know, so I was in Louisiana, and that was a really clarifying experience. And I came back to New York, like, you know, ready to direct Happy Birthday, Marcia, Part two. And I think I'm having a similar powerful experience where I'm so grateful for the artists and the organizers and the friends in Miami who are really received me so warmly. There's so much happening in that city that people are organizing around and are affected by. And also, I don't know. I do feel this is my home. Like, my mom lives here and my siblings, and so, you know, this is.
- [66:14]
Matt Rogers
It's home.
- [66:14]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. Yeah.
- [66:16]
Matt Rogers
It's a power base.
- [66:17]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's. But I live in this beautiful neighborhood of Miami called Coconut Grove. It's like, oh, historically Bahamian community. Yeah. And it's so lush. And I feel it in my body, like, how much it makes sense. And there's like, hundreds of peacocks walking around my neighborhood. And my cat is so happy. Yeah.
- [66:38]
Bowen Yang
Yeah. I mean, honestly, sometimes I feel like you just get used to a store certain pace of life that you realize it's unreasonable once you go somewhere else and just allow yourself to. It's like, I needed to leave New York when I did.
- [66:49]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah.
- [66:49]
Bowen Yang
And I was. I just. It's just really interesting because I came back and what I've been saying to people that are like, oh, why did you come back? It's like, because the things you didn't like or don't like about New York are all kinds of things you can change.
- [67:02]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes.
- [67:02]
Bowen Yang
Like, they're all individual. It's like, everywhere else, it's like, you're gonna have to deal with what it Is. But New York is a lot more multifaceted. Much many more experiences. There are many kinds. Lifestyles there than I think I thought.
- [67:15]
Anna Hazniyeh
Totally.
- [67:16]
Bowen Yang
And so I think I needed to go away and have my shoulders drop to come here and understand how to drop them in New York City.
- [67:22]
Anna Hazniyeh
You know, that's exactly right.
- [67:23]
Bowen Yang
Because you're on guard all the time and ready to go all the time and like, you know, got your armor on and you know, ready to go and. But then you can come back and be like, now that I've like as an adult live somewhere else, I can be an actual adult here.
- [67:36]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's right. Yeah. No, it's that transition moment. So necessary.
- [67:39]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [67:39]
Matt Rogers
Truly. I did feel in reading the book though, like everything about my life in New York, it's like you end. You end with a thank you. You say, thank you, Marcia. And the whole time, even before I got to the ending, I was just like, I owe everything to this one person who has been in my consciousness for as long as I've read up on queer history. But I'm also like, I cannot even begin to understand all the material things about my life that like, wouldn't be possible without her.
- [68:07]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. No, that's why I ended with thank you, Marcia. It felt like, you know, I started learning about Marcia over 20 years ago and it's just felt like a gift. So to know her in a particular kind of like spiritual sense and to get close to the people who I named who are still around here right now in a kind of physical sense. And so that's the spirit that I hope. Hoped to offer through the book.
- [68:33]
Matt Rogers
Yes.
- [68:33]
Anna Hazniyeh
It's like I received this gift. I would love to share this gift with everyone and take it how you will, but for me it just, it felt really important to move through that spirit of generosity.
- [68:45]
Matt Rogers
You've imparted that in such a huge way. And like just down to like my own individual history and like Matt's too, of like, oh my God. Like that. Downstein. Was it a sit in or what would you call that?
- [68:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yeah. So they. So Marsha and Sylvia, the dining hall's down one. Exactly. Yeah. They occupied. They had an occupation in 1970, September of Weinstein Hall. They took it over. Right. They were street queens living in Washington Square park. And they were like, nyu, New York University is refusing to have gay dance parties in the heart of this haven for queer and trans people. That's not okay. We're gonna take it over. And it was this really beautiful moment where they were modeling what they dreamed up in those hourly horror, they dreamed up a sense of connection and community. Marsha was making food. They were, you know, kind of modeling after the Black Panther party too, where everyone was invited to eat. And so they were just, like, creating the world that they wanted to live in. Sometimes we call that pre figuring the world that we want. Right. And they were doing that kind of pre figuration.
- [69:47]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [69:48]
Matt Rogers
And they were in the basement. They were in the basement, which is where the buffet dining hall was when we went there. It was where you would go to, like, get your hangover omelette.
- [69:58]
Anna Hazniyeh
Oh, my God, I love that.
- [69:59]
Matt Rogers
Like, the fact that, like.
- [70:01]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes. That's where they were living it all.
- [70:03]
Matt Rogers
Like, it all, like, start, like a year after Stonewall. This is where, like, this was like, the extension, the continuation that was happening. Like, where, like, I was like, eating my home fries.
- [70:13]
Anna Hazniyeh
That's exactly right.
- [70:14]
Bowen Yang
Forty years later, I would be bitching about the craft of writing, literally.
- [70:18]
Anna Hazniyeh
You know what I mean?
- [70:19]
Matt Rogers
But we wouldn't have gone to, like, NYU probably. I think you were writing and writing at the time also wasn't really even admitting a lot of queer students.
- [70:26]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly.
- [70:27]
Matt Rogers
It's like, we're there. We're there because of them.
- [70:32]
Anna Hazniyeh
And also they were doing these incredible, like, they were dreaming about things in the basement of NYU where y' all were hungover about, like, access to gender affirming care. Right. They were literally talking about access to medical care. They were talking about also for things that didn't directly affect them, for, you know, CIS women to have daycare so that they could attend college, for college to be free, for, you know, housing. It was really important for them to dream up because they knew that you two would come along and be the beneficiaries of the dream and you wouldn't need to necessarily do the same thing.
- [71:06]
Matt Rogers
I think you write about this in the book where it's like their transness was the thing that was able to confer possibility onto a huge mass group of people. The world, the literal world.
- [71:18]
Anna Hazniyeh
The literal world.
- [71:19]
Matt Rogers
I learned so much reading this. Thank you for such a good job.
- [71:22]
Anna Hazniyeh
Thank you for reading it and engaging in it.
- [71:23]
Bowen Yang
This face should be on the dollar first of, I want to live in that world. And it's just amazing. And you did such incredible work. And I have to imagine that this was not easy and must took years.
- [71:34]
Anna Hazniyeh
Well, I was writing for five years, and then before that it was like 15 years of research. But it felt like a gift. Like, it honestly felt every time I learned something new or I met someone who was Grumpy and lived, you know, like. And who knew Marcia. But ended the conversation really joyful. All of it. It just felt like a good.
- [71:52]
Bowen Yang
But all of that is exactly what we were talking about earlier with, like, you know, the lack of quote unquote, correct recollection. It's like people are all the things. Exactly. And that is, that is what makes her not just, you know, someone who's a source on Stonewall and that area and that time, but she is that time. It is all those things. And so we're going to do. I don't think so, honey, but May 20th.
- [72:23]
Matt Rogers
May 20th Marcia this is Bowen Yang.
- [72:28]
Bowen Yang
And Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with.
- [72:30]
Matt Rogers
Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [72:33]
Bowen Yang
This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.
- [72:35]
Matt Rogers
All right, readers, Katie's publicist finalist Kyle's. It's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. That's right. It's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you. Meaning you can pay your own way with just a click.
- [72:46]
Bowen Yang
Once you click the PayPal button, you can choose from a bunch of different ways to pay.
- [72:50]
Matt Rogers
You can Pay later with PayPal at millions of online stores. If you choose Pay in four, you can split everyday payments purchases into four smaller payments. No interest, no fees.
- [72:59]
Bowen Yang
I think we've all had those chaotic, unhinged purchases.
- [73:02]
Matt Rogers
Hmm. Another way to pay is with your PayPal Debit Mastercard. You can use it online or in store and earn 5% cash back on up to $1,000 spent in the monthly category. You choose, like a payroll or ride shares. 5% cash back on a ride home from a messy first date.
- [73:17]
Bowen Yang
Yes, please pay in store, pay online. Pay over time. Don't just pay PayPal. Pay in for a subject to approval. Eligibility varies. Learn more@paypal.com paypal pay in 4 paypal debit card terms and limits apply. This card is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to a license by MasterCard International Inc. Full terms@paypal.com rewards pal. Okay, I have something for I don't think so honey. And it involves my sister.
- [73:45]
Matt Rogers
Okay. You all right? This is. Oh, me all right. This is. I don't think so, honey. This is our one minute segment in which we take one minute to rage radiance against something in the culture. Matt Rogers has something. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so. Any time starts now.
- [73:59]
Bowen Yang
I don't think so, honey. Why haven't they got my girl Bowen Yang at the Met Gala? Oh, my boy should have been at. No, I want the Invitation in the mail for next year already. You would have torn up a suit. You tailored. Michael Fisher at mjohn F. Scroll through. Look at my girl slaying every look. You know he's a fashion icon.
- [74:20]
Matt Rogers
Oh, no.
- [74:20]
Bowen Yang
What was that photo show you did with with the Pikachu backpack?
- [74:23]
Matt Rogers
Oh, that was Ryan McGinley for New Yorker.
- [74:25]
Bowen Yang
That was an award winning photo shoot with award winning styling and an award winning subject. Why isn't my girl at the Met Gala? I want to see my girl walking up the steps. I want to see him ignoring the press. I want to see him in a hat. I want to see him doing daring fashion. And here's the thing. If Bowie Nag's not invited, I'm never getting invited. And I want to go to the movie Met Gala. I understand this makes my chances of being invited much less.
- [74:54]
Matt Rogers
Because I'm dragging you by a win torn.
- [74:56]
Bowen Yang
I'll tell you his address. It's.
- [74:59]
Matt Rogers
And that's one. Thank you, Matt. Beautiful. Well, listen, I kind of prefer just watching from home.
- [75:07]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, but you know what? Just go do the carpet. Get the phone out on the side. Don't get in trouble like Megan Thee stallion did.
- [75:15]
Matt Rogers
I've seen Ocean's 8. I know what's going on inside. You know what I mean?
- [75:19]
Bowen Yang
That is so.
- [75:19]
Matt Rogers
I don't need to go.
- [75:20]
Bowen Yang
I don't need to go to the Metcalf. I've seen Ocean Zade. That's a roller culture number 60.
- [75:24]
Matt Rogers
I don't need to go to the Met Gala.
- [75:26]
Bowen Yang
I've seen Ocean's Eight.
- [75:28]
Anna Hazniyeh
It's shocking. I thought you had. I just. Wow. Oh, my goodness. But doesn't it just make sense?
- [75:33]
Bowen Yang
I feel like this year would have been so good for you, too, because it was all about suiting. I mean, what did you think of the Met Gala?
- [75:39]
Anna Hazniyeh
I thought it was fab.
- [75:39]
Bowen Yang
Yeah. It was really a great year.
- [75:41]
Anna Hazniyeh
Dan Hansen is a great thing.
- [75:44]
Matt Rogers
No, I think that, to quote Marcia, it's like the party is wherever she goes.
- [75:50]
Bowen Yang
You're right. So the party was at your address last night?
- [75:53]
Matt Rogers
The party was at. Was at my. I had people over. I invited you over.
- [75:56]
Bowen Yang
How many people did you have order.
- [75:58]
Matt Rogers
It was just four of us. It was just me. Josh, that's cute.
- [76:01]
Bowen Yang
Oh, okay. But I was in the weeds, moving again, like, you know how it is. We talked about it, but another time we'll hang out. Okay. Bowen, Yang, do you have and I don't think so, honey.
- [76:13]
Matt Rogers
I have and I don't think so, honey.
- [76:14]
Bowen Yang
I love to hear it. Okay. This is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so. His time starts now.
- [76:19]
Matt Rogers
I don't think so, honey. Make Times Square dirty, filthy, corny again. Times Square red, Times Square blue. This is why Times Square is so important in the city. You need cross class interaction in every great city. That is how you engender solidarity. That is how you get people to work together to solve problems. We can't be siloed in our neighborhoods now. And I especially don't think so, honey. Another neighborhood, the West Village, being overtaken by these girlies who are. Are like, just doing their silly little tiktoks. Nothing wrong with that. It's just it cannot be all the tone of that neighborhood anymore. That is a rich neighborhood in terms of history and wealth, let's say. But it's just we need our neighborhoods to retain some of their authenticity. Times Square being all like M and M store. McDonald's is funny and ironic, and I think there's a huge opportunity to make those spaces fun and crazy and absurd. Like, let's make those, like weird, sexy, horny places. You know what I mean? Catch me cruising at the Olive Garden, at the Madame Tussauds, and that's one minute. You know what I mean? Like, wouldn't it be fun to just like, make Times Square a little bit, like, filthier again?
- [77:25]
Bowen Yang
100%.
- [77:26]
Anna Hazniyeh
Brings back the Cornwall theater.
- [77:27]
Matt Rogers
I just want to just make that fun. We used to work here all the time or down there, like by the drama book shop. And it was like, I can see the bones of when this had, like, character to it.
- [77:38]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes, you can still feel, but it's like.
- [77:40]
Matt Rogers
But otherwise it's like sanitized. And I'm like, oh, but like, it's still there. Let's like tap into that.
- [77:46]
Bowen Yang
You know, you can still smell the cum on the walls. It's like old Rose.
- [77:51]
Matt Rogers
I can still smell the cum on the walls. There you go.
- [77:55]
Bowen Yang
All right, so it's your turn.
- [77:57]
Matt Rogers
It's your turn.
- [77:58]
Anna Hazniyeh
Okay.
- [77:58]
Matt Rogers
Do you have something?
- [77:59]
Anna Hazniyeh
I have a little bit of a something.
- [78:00]
Matt Rogers
Okay, let's blow it out to a lot of bit of a something.
- [78:03]
Anna Hazniyeh
Okay. Help me. You know, feel free to make a punch up. Punch it up.
- [78:07]
Matt Rogers
All right. Okay, so this is Tourmaline's. I don't think so, honey. Her time starts.
- [78:10]
Anna Hazniyeh
Okay. I don't think so, honey. To this small time dreaming. We are literally in a moment as the empire is collapsing and our economy is dusted. Dusting that like, we're all saying it's time to go after your Dreams. There is no point carving out a small space on a sinking ship just for our survival. Now is the time to dream. As big as the problems are, this is how we transform the world.
- [78:34]
Bowen Yang
Yes.
- [78:35]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yes.
- [78:36]
Bowen Yang
Did it in 30.
- [78:37]
Matt Rogers
Did it in 30.
- [78:38]
Anna Hazniyeh
Cassandra.
- [78:39]
Matt Rogers
She's a fucking writer. She's a poetess.
- [78:42]
Bowen Yang
Said it in less words and more poignantly than we could ever.
- [78:45]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, I mean, something about you saying, like, big problems call for inspire, big solutions.
- [78:51]
Anna Hazniyeh
Like, that's t. I really feel that way.
- [78:54]
Matt Rogers
You know?
- [78:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
Like, I really, really feel that way.
- [78:56]
Matt Rogers
And this is the. This is the actual time.
- [79:00]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly. And you can feel it, Right. Like, we can feel the. This thing not working. It is so clear that this moment is illuminating how it's not lasting.
- [79:13]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [79:13]
Anna Hazniyeh
So why not, like, why not be inspired to think of a dream that's a little bit bigger than the empire that's crumbling around us?
- [79:20]
Matt Rogers
Totally. Like, what is there to lose?
- [79:22]
Anna Hazniyeh
What is there to lose?
- [79:23]
Bowen Yang
Yeah. Absolutely.
- [79:25]
Anna Hazniyeh
Literally nothing.
- [79:26]
Matt Rogers
Our theme parks.
- [79:29]
Bowen Yang
You've really done something here. I mean, this is Marsha. The joy and defiance of Marsha P. Johnson. It is out May 20, and you would enrich yourself to read it. You don't have to be queer. You don't have to be a New Yorker. You don't have to be someone that's interested in history. You can be all those things and more, and you would get so much out of this. It's beautiful work, and we thank you so much for coming on the show.
- [79:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
Thank you so much for having me. It really means a lot. And it means a lot that you read and engaged the book and shared so much about how it affected you and your own story. And I'm just thinking about Marcia and you in the basement of Weinstein hall, time traveling with the two drunk, you know, up and coming girlies.
- [80:13]
Bowen Yang
When time is a flat circle. We did meet the.
- [80:18]
Anna Hazniyeh
Exactly. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
- [80:21]
Matt Rogers
Congratulations. We end every episode with a song.
- [80:22]
Bowen Yang
We end every episode with a song. Don't you know that I heard it through the grapevine not much longer would you be mine well, you know, I'm realizing now.
- [80:37]
Anna Hazniyeh
Is that the melody?
- [80:38]
Matt Rogers
I think I have it. This is like the one Marvin Gaye song that I don't know.
- [80:42]
Bowen Yang
I mean, you know, I used to know it because I used to do it on American Idol all the time. That's my little white gay ass all the time. It always is some Clay Aiken singing it.
- [80:51]
Anna Hazniyeh
You know what I mean?
- [80:54]
Bowen Yang
Bye.
- [80:55]
Anna Hazniyeh
Yay. So good. So good. So good.
- [80:59]
Bowen Yang
That was so much fun.
- [81:01]
Matt Rogers
Las Colturistas is a Production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts.
- [81:05]
Bowen Yang
Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, executive produced by Anna Hazniyeh.
- [81:10]
Matt Rogers
And produced by Becca Ramos, edited and mixed by Doug Behman, Monique Laborde and.
- [81:14]
Bowen Yang
Our music is by Henry Komirsky. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.
- [81:24]
Matt Rogers
All right, readers, Katie's publicist finalist Kyle's it's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. There. That's right. It's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you meaning you can pay your own way.
- [81:35]
Bowen Yang
PayPal offers people flexibility on how they can pay. Once you click the PayPal button, you can choose from a bunch of payment.
- [81:41]
Matt Rogers
Options, including paying later with PayPal at millions of online stores.
- [81:45]
Bowen Yang
Iconic Pay in store, pay online, pay overtime, don't just pay PayPal.
- [81:50]
Matt Rogers
Learn more@paypal.com you're listening to an iHeart podcast.