Last Podcast On The Left
Episode: Dracula: An Interview with Matt Wagner & Kelley Jones
Date: October 14, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode features a deep-dive interview with comic book legends Matt Wagner and Kelley Jones, renowned for their dark, imaginative work on titles like Sandman, Batman, and more recently, a bold new Dracula series. Hosted by Marcus and the Last Podcast crew, the discussion centers on their innovative reimagining of Dracula, exploring Vlad the Impaler's journey as told from Dracula’s own point of view. The conversation ranges from comic book industry tales, the creative process behind their new Dracula project, to broader topics of horror, villainy, and favorite vampire lore.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Comic Legends: Origins and Industry Tales (02:00–11:28)
- Matt Wagner and Kelley Jones reminisce about their first work together on Sandman and the DC crediting system, often granting “creator” status to the first contributor, sometimes resulting in surprises about who gets royalties.
- “I've created about a half dozen characters I had no idea I created.” — Kelley Jones [03:22]
- Kelly recalls his time on Dino Riders, an assignment he wanted off but led to an unexpected financial windfall when the line was canceled.
- “I was so angry because I kept saying, get me off... They canceled all the license books. So I get this very large check, larger than I would have gotten from anything they did.” — Kelley [06:00]
- Both discuss how work-for-hire contracts at Marvel and DC shaped their early careers and the subtle rebellion in their art styles.
- “You always put your all into something, as ludicrous as it was.” — Kelley [07:58]
- They touch on subverting editorial boundaries—like sneaking in adult language to distract censors from more subversive content.
- “If you had something questionable you wanted to get through, you would throw a fuck or two into the script… and then that's all they would focus on.” — Matt Wagner [10:28]
2. Reinventing Dracula (11:28–16:41)
- Main Topic: Their comic series tells the story of Dracula from Dracula’s own perspective, filling gaps left in Bram Stoker’s epistolary novel and focusing on stories only hinted at.
- “The one voice missing is Dracula… after this long, we deserve to see, hear his point of view.” — Matt [12:12]
- Stories explore themes like Dracula’s occult education at the mythical Scholomance and the origins of his brides.
- “I realized what we need to do is… tell everything else that the novel only hints at and doesn't tell.” — Matt [12:25]
- Kelley credits Matt for the idea’s originality, sharing his instant enthusiasm upon hearing the concept.
- “In three minutes, I went from ‘Dracula?’ to ‘When do we start?’” — Kelley [15:42]
3. Building Canon: Research & Creative License (16:41–18:11)
- The team adheres closely to Stoker’s canon, supplementing with newly imagined material only where the novel is vague.
- Details like the timing of Dracula’s actions are meticulously mapped with annotated calendars—including moon phases and sunrise/sunset times—to satisfy both scholars and casual readers.
- “I had to make it fit all that. This thing even had the sunrise and sunset times and the phases of the moon.” — Matt [17:24]
4. Art, Gore, and Characterization of Evil (18:11–25:40)
- Kelley discusses his approach to horror art: focusing on “the little things” that evoke pain readers can relate to, like a bat biting someone’s eye or subtle cruelties.
- “It's the little things that look painful… everyone can relate to that kind of pain.” — Kelley [18:43]
- Matt stresses that empathy—even with monsters like Dracula—derives from strong characterization, not romanticization.
- “You have to keep him as this unrepentant villain… there's nothing romantic about him.” — Matt [22:23]
- The creative challenge: making readers care about characters in a genre plagued with clichés.
- “With contemporary vampire stories… you have to do something to make people care, even just in passing.” — Matt [21:38]
- Exploration of the brides’ unique backstories, Dracula’s motivations, and the loss inherent in their vampiric transformation.
5. Villainy from Within (25:56–27:22)
- Matt reflects on the compelling nature of antiheroes and villainous protagonists.
- “Because we each have a villain inside of us, baby. You recognize it.” — Matt [26:14]
- Comparison to characters like Hannibal Lecter; the allure of unrepentant evil.
- Extended discussion on Vlad the Impaler’s historical brutality and how the comic brings real atrocity to life, including impalement as actual Vlad did it, not sanitized for popular culture.
6. Vampires in Pop Culture (28:14–36:05)
- Contrast between monstrous and “sexy” vampires—Dracula is depicted here as monstrous, not the seductive version of modern takes (à la Twilight or Anne Rice).
- Discussion of Nosferatu, the evolution of Dracula’s accent (due to Lugosi), and the details comics adapt vs. discard.
- “Dracula is a different character. Dracula is not a decaying corpse. He's also much more courtly than that.” — Matt [29:14]
- Recommendations and admiration for other vampires in film and literature, including Let the Right One In, Buffalo Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones, Blade, and Sinners.
- “To my mind, the best horror is always about something else other than the scares…” — Matt [30:38]
- Commentary on how myths like sunlight harming vampires diverge from Stoker’s original text, where Dracula is merely weaker by day.
7. Creative Process & Influences (36:25–47:38)
- The dynamic between Matt’s scripts and Kelley’s spontaneous, emotion-driven art style.
- “I don't pre-plan anything… I work very emotionally, so I want to feel it that day.” — Kelley [37:58]
- Their method of “keeping out” other creators’ work while developing their Dracula: staying away from classic runs and consciously avoiding overlap.
- Mini-history of Dracula portrayals—from Dan Curtis’s Jack Palance adaptation to Gene Colan’s comics, including co-opting tropes (garlic, crosses).
- “My approach is it has to be wielded with a faith behind it… to have an effect on him.” — Matt [47:07]
8. Honoring Horror Comics’ Past (48:25–52:19)
- Kelley’s touching reflection on completing Frankenstein Alive, Alive! after Bernie Wrightson fell ill and passed.
- “It was as big of an honor as you could get… a tremendous honor and terribly sad at the same time.” — Kelley [48:25]
9. Collaborative Energy and Character Voice (52:36–54:10)
- Further exploration of drawing mania vs. restraint, feeling the emotion in the pen.
- Matt’s praise for Kelley’s ability to make Dracula sinister, even while blending into society.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Horror Artistry
“My favorite gore… are the little things that look painful. It can be a small thing, like a needle in a finger… I think everyone can relate to that kind of pain, to those little moments.”
— Kelley Jones [18:43] -
On Giving Dracula A Voice
“The one voice missing is Dracula… after this long, we deserve to see, hear his point of view.”
— Matt Wagner [12:12] -
On the Antihero
“Because we each have a villain inside of us, baby. You recognize it.”
— Matt Wagner [26:14] -
Horror’s Depth
“To my mind, the best horror is always about something else other than the scares.”
— Matt Wagner [30:38] -
Dracula’s Appetite
“Dracula goes on and on about how women just taste better. Like he says, there's a certain assertive tang in the gore of males.”
— Matt Wagner [42:25] -
Empathy in Villainy
“You know, Dracula is a bad guy. He's like the most notorious bad guy in the world. But, you know, I'm reading this thing, I'm like, ah, you know, I get it. I like you.”
— Marcus [26:52]
Important Timestamps
| Time | Segment / Topic | |----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:00 | Wagner & Jones meet on Sandman; crediting quirks at DC | | 04:47 | Kelly’s Dino Riders story; contract woes and creative rebellion | | 10:28 | Editorial boundaries & sneaking content past censors | | 11:28 | Introduction to Dracula project: telling the story from Dracula’s POV | | 12:25 | Filling in Dracula’s canon with fresh material (Scholomance, Brides) | | 17:24 | Research depth: annotated calendars for Dracula’s canon | | 18:43 | Kelley on horror art & the power in the “little agonies” | | 26:14 | Matt on why we’re drawn to stories from villains’ perspectives | | 28:14 | The series’ commitment to a monstrous (not romantic) Dracula | | 30:38 | Favorite vampire stories; what makes horror last | | 36:25 | Creative partnership: scripting vs. emotional drawing | | 42:25 | Dracula’s tastes: why he preys on women | | 48:25 | Kelley's emotional work finishing Wrightson's last Frankenstein book | | 52:36 | How the art changes with Dracula’s mood; evoking emotion through pace | | 57:08 | Details on the latest Dracula Kickstarter; getting hardcovers | | 58:04 | Quick wrap-up: praise for the series’ historical depth and impact |
Bonus: Upcoming Projects & How to Get the Book (57:08–end)
- Kickstarter for Dracula Book Three ('The Count') launches October 1st.
- Hardcovers for books one and two also available via Kickstarter.
- Dark Horse to release trade paperbacks to retail after hardcover backers.
- Exclusive original art collaborations available as rewards.
- Collaboration between Matt Wagner and the host Marcus on a Sid & Nancy comic project—another example of their creative synergy.
Episode Tone & Takeaway
This episode is an energetic, irreverent, and deeply informed conversation about reshaping a classic horror myth for a contemporary audience. Matt Wagner and Kelley Jones are passionate about honoring Bram Stoker’s legacy while shaking up expectations—returning Dracula to terrifying, monstrous roots, adding rigorous research, and always letting character drive even the goriest moments. Fans of horror comics and gothic fiction alike will find inspiration, dark laughter, and a new reason to revisit the world’s most iconic vampire.
For more and to support the latest chapter:
Search Kickstarter for "Dracula Matt Wagner Kelly Jones" (launching October 1st, hardcovers exclusive to Kickstarter).
Trade editions coming soon from Dark Horse Comics.