Episode 625: The Toy-Box Killer : Redux Part I - Aren't We Devils?

Summary

Episode Summary: Episode 625: The Toy-Box Killer : Redux Part I - Aren't We Devils?

Podcast Information:

• Title: Last Podcast On The Left
• Host/Author: The Last Podcast Network
• Episode: Episode 625: The Toy-Box Killer : Redux Part I - Aren't We Devils?
• Release Date: July 4, 2025
• Description: The Last Podcast on the Left delves into the dark and horrifying tales of real and imagined horrors, ensuring listeners' fascination with the macabre is thoroughly satisfied.

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Introduction to the Toy-Box Killer

In Episode 625, the hosts embark on a deep dive into the chilling story of David Parker Ray, infamously known as the Toy-Box Killer. This episode marks the beginning of a redux series aimed at re-examining previously covered topics with fresh insights and detailed analysis.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zabrowski [05:27]: "Today we're gonna be redoing and starting off on the foul, incredibly disgusting and disturbing journey of David Parker Ray."

Early Life and Background of David Parker Ray

David Parker Ray was born in 1939 in Bell, New Mexico, to Cecil and Nettie Ray. His upbringing was marred by violence and alcohol abuse, with his father leaving the family when Ray was just ten years old. Consequently, David and his sister Peggy were sent to live with their grandparents in the isolated town of Mountain Air, New Mexico.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zabrowski [29:52]: "Like many serial killers, David Parker Ray was raised in a violent, alcohol-fueled household."

Descent into Darkness: The Formation of the Toy Box

By his teenage years, Ray developed a fascination with sadomasochism and torture, which he described as blossoming at age thirteen. Utilizing his mechanical expertise, Ray constructed a soundproofed torture chamber he aptly named his "Toy Box." This homemade dungeon, concealed within a seemingly ordinary cargo trailer near Elephant Butte Lake, became the epicenter of his heinous crimes.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zabrowski [81:11]: "He was very proud of that. Tellingly, though, the first thing David did when he parked the trailer that would become his toy box was make and hang a hand-painted welcome sign inside the entrance that stood 'Satan's Den.'"

Modus Operandi and Accomplices

Ray's approach to his crimes was methodical and perverted. He meticulously documented his tortures, creating videotapes intended both for his own records and for distribution to sadomasochism enthusiasts worldwide. His crimes were characterized by extreme violence, psychological manipulation, and the use of drugs to erase victims' memories.

Ray was not a lone actor; his daughter, Jesse Ray, became increasingly involved in his activities. Initially a victim herself, Jesse later became an accomplice, assisting her father in the abduction and torture of women. This familial collaboration added a disturbing layer to Ray's operations.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zabrowski [79:26]: "The amount of shit in that dungeon, the amount of things that he installed, the sheer number of things that he thought through to the tiniest detail, it's staggering."

Victims and Disappearance

One of Ray's earliest suspected victims was his boss, Billy Ray Bowers, who disappeared in 1988. Despite meticulous disposal methods, including dumping Bowers' body in Elephant Butte Lake, linking Ray directly to the murder proved challenging due to the lack of identifiable evidence and the assumption that Bowers had left town voluntarily.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zabrowski [70:56]: "The whole idea that like people killing, like porno movies in which someone dies at the end, it doesn't exist. It's an urban myth."

Investigation and Challenges

The investigation into Ray's activities was fraught with difficulties. The victims were often marginalized individuals, such as sex workers and addicts, whose disappearances did not garner significant attention from law enforcement. Additionally, the advanced concealment techniques Ray employed, including a soundproof trailer and the use of drugs to erase memories, made it exceptionally hard for authorities to piece together the full extent of his crimes.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zabrowski [08:18]: "Because there really aren't like any real docs on this guy. And I think it's because it's so upsetting."

Revelations and Evidence

In 2011, the FBI released over 400 images of items recovered from Ray's property in hopes of linking them to missing persons cases. However, none of the artifacts were ever connected to any known victims, largely due to the anonymity of the victims and the thoroughness of Ray's concealment efforts.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zabrowski [74:27]: "But despite the publication of over 400 images, not a single person has been linked to these items to this day."

Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

Episode 625 sets the stage for a comprehensive exploration of David Parker Ray's life and crimes. The hosts tease the introduction of new accomplices and delve deeper into the psychological and societal factors that enabled Ray's reign of terror.

Notable Quote:

Henry Zabrowski [105:02]: "As far as David Parker Ray's MO comes from a victim that Jesse definitely served up to her father, one of Jesse's actual friends."

Stay tuned for subsequent episodes in this redux series, where the hosts will uncover more layers of the Toy-Box Killer's sinister world, including his network of accomplices and the long-lasting impact of his atrocities.

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Closing Notes: This episode provides a harrowing account of one of America's most sadistic serial killers, offering listeners a deeply detailed and disturbing narrative. The hosts balance factual recounting with their signature dark humor, making the macabre subject matter both engaging and educational.

Notable Quote:

Marcus Parks [05:48]: "He truly a New Mexico romantic."

Transcript

[Marcus Parks]

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[Henry Zabrowski]

There's no place to escape to.

[Ed Larson]

This is the last on the left.

[Marcus Parks]

That's when the cannibalism started.

[Henry Zabrowski]

What was that?

[Ed Larson]

That's the dream.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm actually excited about the little dog in Superman.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, Crypto.

[Marcus Parks]

Crypto's so fucking cute.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, Crypto's so cute. I really hope they bring in all the different super pets because there's a. You know, there's a whole menagerie.

[Marcus Parks]

James Gundy loves all.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, there's Krypto the superdog. There's Comet. Comet, the super horse. Streaky, the super cat. And Beppo the super monkey.

[Marcus Parks]

I remember Beppo.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And then.

[Marcus Parks]

And then. Doesn't Wonder Woman get fucked by the horse?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Wonder Woman does get fucked by the horse, but with consent.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Excellent.

[Ed Larson]

And Beppo gets turned into Bolognese and it becomes Buca di Beppo.

[Marcus Parks]

That's cute as hell. One of my favorite Italian restaurants. You know, I really want to. A lot of people have been saying recently that I look like one of Eileen Wuornos's victims. Slash customers due to my new look.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, your new look.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

You've had a mustache for a very long time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now he's talking about the curtains.

[Marcus Parks]

I got the skullet going. I got sort of like. This is a whole. Like. I've been driving for eight days. This is why I've been shaved. I haven't showered.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, you look like fat Nicholson.

[Marcus Parks]

I wanna be. I Wann, it's Fat Milkerson. I want to get in there, but I just feel like I'm like. Actually, I feel like I'm more like. This is truth or consequences, Henry Zabrowski.

[Henry Zabrowski]

This is absolutely Truth or consequences, Henry Zabrowski.

[Marcus Parks]

I feel like David Parker Ray's like, like, caterer. Like, I feel like a guy who shows up like he knows me.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You don't know what's going on, but you know what's going on.

[Marcus Parks]

David, he likes it freaky, but also he loves my turkey picante, which I tried to bring down Tex Meg's little mix right there. And David just slurps it right up on it when he was watching the dog having sex with the woman.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I imagine he just has, you know, slim Jims and SpaghettiOs as his only.

[Marcus Parks]

That's his favorite. He likes his sticks and his squigglies. That's all he likes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Welcome to the last podcast on the left. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I am here with Henry Zabrowski. The man. The New Mexico citizen, possibly, Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

I hope you like green sauce. That's my New Mexico voice. That's New Mexico Henry Zabrowski. Hope you like your Shaw screed.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's an incredibly strange accent.

[Marcus Parks]

I actually did listen to a lawyer from New Mexico say, would you like.

[Ed Larson]

Chilies on your burger?

[Marcus Parks]

You want chilies on your burger there, son? He killed my daughter. I don't know. I've never been to New Mexico. I'm not certain. But I do think I appear like a man of culture. I do believe that if you were to see me on the street, you're like, that's a guy who pays to eat ass and can tell what kind of ass he's gonna eat by looking at the pants. You know, he knows what ass is in the pants.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And of course, we also have with us, man, I don't know your opinions on asses, taste, pants or whatever. It's Ed Larson.

[Ed Larson]

I think asses are fine to look at, but not to eat.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, I just like.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Personal preference.

[Ed Larson]

Personal preference. Slapping's good.

[Marcus Parks]

I just want to be involved.

[Ed Larson]

Slapping and grabbing. I enjoy.

[Marcus Parks]

I just want to be there.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah. I. I tell you what, what I'm not looking forward to is these next couple episodes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yay.

[Marcus Parks]

No, Eddie. You'll see, Eddie. You're gonna love it, Eddie.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Just think of Harley.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, yes, I will. I'll think of Harley and her tied to a gynecologist table.

[Marcus Parks]

Come. This is old school, buddy. We about to get nasty as All Hell yeah.

[Ed Larson]

No, this is really awful. I listened to the tape.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's part of our redux series A redo us going back and taking another swipe at stuff that we did long, long, long, long, long ago before we knew what the fuck we were talking about. Today we're gonna be redoing and starting off on the foul, incredibly disgusting and disturbing journey of David Parker Ray.

[Marcus Parks]

He truly a New Mexico romantic.

[Ed Larson]

Now he ain't afraid of no ghosts. Right? That's what we're doing there.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, this is the mix up here. We have to set this at the very, very top. There is David Parker Ray, serial killer, sexual scientist. Then there is David Ray Parker.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Actually it would be Ray Parker Jr. Ray Parker.

[Marcus Parks]

Ray Parker Jr. That's the guy that.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Made Ghostbusters the song.

[Marcus Parks]

He's the guy that he. I was on set with him on when I did A to M and he told every woman on set that he'd be glad to put a son inside them.

[Ed Larson]

Oh wow. So they are similar.

[Marcus Parks]

From the same club.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

But we only know one of them is busting.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, actually it wasn't David Parker Ray because he was almost completely impotent.

[Ed Larson]

That's right.

[Marcus Parks]

Look at there.

[Henry Zabrowski]

David Parker Ray, better known as the Toy Box Killer, was an American serial murderer and rapist who operated out of the small lake community of Elephant Butte, New Mexico throughout the 1990s. Ray is suspected of abducting and murdering up to 60 women in a homemade, soundproof above ground torture dungeon that lay in plain sight of the community. A dungeon that Ray called what else but his Toy Box? Because of David Parker Ray's cargo trailer turned torture chamber, Ray has the reputation of being one of the most sadistic serial killers in American history. Perhaps most infamous for the pre recorded tape he would play for his victims before the torture began that explained what was about to happen. But even if you don't think David Parker Ray is one of the worst serial killers, he was at the very least a world class pervert.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

A man who would make the Marquis de Sade blush with the sexual tortures he inflicted upon others. And just so everyone knows, this is a full gold star series from beginning to end.

[Marcus Parks]

Unless of course this makes you horny. Well then it's. You love this.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well then we call that a red light series. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you need to get therapy.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, that's a good way to. For you to know when you gotta go.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Now what's the difference between a heavy hitter and a gold star?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Heavy hitter is Something kind of a guy that everybody knows. And a gold star is something that can. Contains the most disturbing material that you could imagine.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. Because there really aren't like any like real docs on this guy. And I think it's because it's so upsetting.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's how it usually happens. Yeah. The ones that are so upsetting, the ones that are really just fucking disgusting, they don't tend to make the A and E documentaries about it. They don't. Netflix tends to not touch that. And in fact, when Netflix does make serial killer documentaries, usually they tend to skip over the more disgusting like that Ted Bundy bullshit that they did where they just completely skipped over him having sex, decomposed heads and putting makeup on the head. So they looked pretty good. They just skip over all that. We don't do that here.

[Ed Larson]

No. So that's what sells tickets.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Yes. But David Parker Ray also had very little hard evidence in court. When you will get to the end of the series there?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Not just the end of the series. We're about to get into it right now.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yes. There's very little evidence to pin him to any form of these crimes. And even like one of the worst parts about sexual assault and, and prosecuting sexual assault is first convincing a jury that sexual assault even happened if everybody involved is a sex worker. So like this is. We already saw you're. So you're watching it happen in real time in the Diddy trial. But this is one of those that. That's the reason why there's very little straight up documentary footage on him is because most of the thing that would involve witness testimony nobody showed up to give. Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

And I think. Didn't his. It didn't his defender, defense attorneys say that it was all consensual.

[Marcus Parks]

They always. Yes, that was especially with who was in the court. And we'll get to it.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Well, I mean one of the things that makes David Parker Ray special in the annals of serial killer history.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you. If we could. Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

That while there is no definitive evidence or even any bodies linking him to those 60 some odd suspected murders, there's also little doubt that David Parker Ray committed those murders. The reasons behind that assumption are of course, many fold. First, the crimes that David Parker Ray committed in his toy box. Crimes that we know happened for a fact not only because of witness testimony, but because of videotape he made himself. These crimes are so sadistic, so evil and so deviant that it is ridiculous to think that he never escalated to murder multiple times. Furthermore, while David Parker Ray did release many of the women he tortured in his toy box after scrambling their memories with a cocktail of mindbreaking drugs. The evidence shows that Ray tortured dozens, if not hundreds of women within the box's confines. Therefore, it's also ridiculous to think that his drug cocktail worked on them all. It definitely did work sometimes. Don't get me wrong, we have evidence for that. But the fact that no victim ever reported David Parker Ray to the police prior to the escape of his last abductee, that shows that he most likely murdered many of the women he kidnapped. Now my last point and perhaps the most important one when it comes to the bodies, this comes from the perspective of a close personal friend of mine, a buddy of mine from my days at Texas Tech named David Ward.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, I thought you're gonna say David Parker Ray junior. I thought you were gonna talk about your best friend. And you were connected to the family that you went over there all the time, participated in a lot of crimes when you were a boy.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No. You guys remember Dave Ward? We used to hang out in New York all the time.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, sure.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah. Dave's perspective is special because he not only grew up spending his summers at Elephant Butte Lake, he also spent that time at his grandparents trailer, which was located just two doors down from where David Parker Ray did everything we're about to discuss while David Parker Ray was doing it.

[Marcus Parks]

Is it called Elephant Butte Lake because it looks like an elephant sat down on New Mexico?

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't know, Henry, what do you think?

[Marcus Parks]

I'm asking you, history boy. I'm asking you lake man. I'm asking you, regional expert, okay?

[Henry Zabrowski]

I know that it's a man made lake. That it was. It's new. I don't know why they call it Elephant Butte.

[Marcus Parks]

That's all I was asking.

[Ed Larson]

So your buddy Dave, he never heard screaming or did he just think it was an owl?

[Henry Zabrowski]

He knew, he absolutely nothing. Nobody knew anything about this guy. Like Dave's grandfather. His grandparents like own that trailer out there and you know, they spent summers out there. He said that his grandfather would chat with David Parker Ray. Like, you know, his grandfather was an elect, an electrician. David Parker Ray was a mechanic. So you know, they talk shop. He was just like the way Dave described him because Dave had a lot of interactions with him. He called him Mr. Ray. He's like that southwestern human cigarette, you know, the guy with just, you know, the deep gravelly voice, kind of a curmudgeon, but you know, you don't really get a feeling from him. Just like just some fucking guy.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. Beef jerky. Jeff Foxworthy.

[Marcus Parks]

I gotta tell you something, right. Them speed limits on them speed limits is a challenge.

[Ed Larson]

Did he say if he was nice or not?

[Henry Zabrowski]

He said he was kind of a. Like kind of a curmudgeon. That's about all. Like he would say.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, because he wasn't fucking. You have an idea how annoyed he was when he wasn't fucking?

[Ed Larson]

Yes. I know lots of people who don't fuck and they're perfectly fine human beings.

[Marcus Parks]

David Parker Ray. David Parker Ray. Got to be currently in order for him to feel good.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, I mean really.

[Marcus Parks]

Also, you think screaming women sound like owls? Let's move forward. So you just saying you. Have you heard an owl that sounds like a screaming woman?

[Ed Larson]

Well, when an owl attacks, it screams to. To. To. To scare its prey. And the prey usually stands still when the owl screams.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, he knows about animals, Henry. Don't with him on animals. He knows what he's talking about.

[Marcus Parks]

It's about. It's comparing it to the dead women. To the dead tortured women. Right. That's my main issue.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Right. No, the. The trailer was soundproofed.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Are we all satisfied?

[Ed Larson]

I am.

[Marcus Parks]

I asked my questions.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, I mean the information that I got from Dave, you know, like the stuff about, you know, knowing David Parker Ray is important. But the more important stuff that I got from him was about Elephant Butte Lake itself.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Like from what he told me about Elephant Butte Lake, there's nary a spot in America that was better suited to being the home of a serial killer who wanted to make the bodies of his victims disappear forever.

[Marcus Parks]

And wasn't that written on the sign when you come into Elephant? I'm pretty certain as one of those.

[Ed Larson]

Population signs that constantly rotates.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, you know, there are some serial killers who want bodies to be found. Who leave bodies in certain places to be found. To be found specifically. And then there are some like David Parker Ray, who never want them found.

[Ed Larson]

Do you think there is a chance that he killed nobody?

[Henry Zabrowski]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Marcus Parks]

No, not with the. What we'll see is. It's really the. The circumstantial evidence is a pile of jewelry and clothing and. And trophies.

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Elephant Butte is a man made lake filled with the muddy brown water of the Rio Grande. And speaking to someone who also grew up around one of these man made lakes. Mine was Lake Stamford. I'll say from experience that you can barely see your own hand in front of your face. Once you put your head below water.

[Marcus Parks]

Ain't nobody should be making Legs. But God. Well, and Iran and Pakistan.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, unless a body floats to the surface, no one's ever going to see it once it goes into the water. But more important than the murkiness of the water is the dam system that created Elephant Butte Lake.

[Marcus Parks]

The dam system?

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, the dam.

[Marcus Parks]

That God damn system. Fortune me to live Elephant Butte Lake.

[Henry Zabrowski]

The system of dams that created Elephant Butte. Excuse me, that was my fault.

[Marcus Parks]

Dam, dam, dam, dam.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, this lake dams into another body of water called Caballo Lake, which itself runs back into the Rio Grande River.

[Marcus Parks]

That means Horse Lake.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Very good, Henry. The Rio Grande, of course, flows into the Gulf of Mexico. What does Mexico mean, Henry?

[Marcus Parks]

Mexico.

[Henry Zabrowski]

So if David Parker Ray was killing women and dumping their bodies into the lake, the corpses could have very well floated all the way out to the ocean. And that's even if they weren't chewed up after passing through two dams. And that's the thing, is that people did find chunks in Elephant Butte Lake. They did find, like little pieces here and there, but it just.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, just. Nah. You look like someone faked titty fell off.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

All right. Over here. Someone lost a fake leg. Man, I gotta say, we gotta cull some of these fake body parts. They are confusing the police. All right, I'm dealing with here. I got a pair of titties.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Two lakes.

[Marcus Parks]

I got no. I got no blood.

[Henry Zabrowski]

The other interesting aspect of this case when it comes to Elephant Butte is that while this lake is not necessarily party central, it's definitely a place where the party atmosphere is ever present. But not in the fun spring break, Senor Frog sense. Yeah, this is a very southwestern form of partying. What you might call long form partying.

[Marcus Parks]

That's a good term for it.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah. Where the beer cans got bite marks on the side of them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. The heralded partying.

[Henry Zabrowski]

This creates an atmosphere where alcoholism is widely accepted, if not outright encouraged and drug abuse is somewhat waved off, just so long as it doesn't become your neighbor's problem. But since there are so many people partying in ways that can lead to dark places, David Parker Ray did not act as a lone wolf when it came to both his sexual deviancy and the murders that were committed at the lake. Ray had an entire crew of people in Elephant Butte who participated in his crimes. From buddies to girlfriends to his own fucking daughter. And going by the testimonies of survivors and the people who were there, every single one of these people joined in on Ray's extracurricular activities consensually.

[Marcus Parks]

I gotta say, when I was trying to organize an S and M fuck club that tortured murdered women. When I was in Tuscaloosa, everybody rejected me. And when I was in San Antonio, everybody. Everybody said, no way, Dave. No way. It wouldn't work here, Dave. But then when I got to Elephant Butte, my people arrived. And I knew that we as a community could come together and make the change we want to see. We can all group kill sex workers together. By our actions, not even on purpose, even accidentally, we will kill dozens of women. Am I right, folks? Am I right, my young daughter?

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Just. Yeah. I love you.

[Ed Larson]

So you moved from Tuscaloosa to elephant butt, where the Tusker. Tighter.

[Marcus Parks]

Anything reminds me of the zoo. That's where I want to put my women.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's been said again and again that David Parker Ray and his accomplices were active members of a satanic cult. But what Ray and the others had going on here could not, by any definition of the word be described as cultish. Rather, what you had here was more of a club that used Satanism as a party theme. Really. You could have substituted anything as the backdrop of race, sexual perversions. You could have used the fucking Thundercats and the outcome would have been exactly the same. In other words, this was not Krugersdorp, where one Svengali pushed other people towards doing shit that they wouldn't have done otherwise. Instead, this was a group of people who were all turned on by extreme sexual deviancy. And not the fun kind of extreme sexual deviancy. This is the morally and legally wrong variety. And rather than being a leader, David Parker Ray was more like the president of the club who owned the lodge.

[Marcus Parks]

It's like a prime minister. That's kind of more my thing. All right. My favorite thing is fucking a girl until she calls me snarf.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, they just need stuff to do there, I think, you know, like, get this town a water park.

[Marcus Parks]

You know? They got the lake.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, they got the lake.

[Marcus Parks]

The lake. It's a scum filled hole.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It is a scum filled hole. It's actually down to like 9% right now.

[Marcus Parks]

It's.

[Henry Zabrowski]

There's a. There's problems.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, so maybe they'll find some bodies.

[Henry Zabrowski]

That's the. I mean, that is actually one of the things that they keep hoping for. That is that that's like the silver lining of like. Well, yeah, you know what? Southwest waters really disappearing at a very quick rate. We really did put way too many people out here that should not have been here. We built a civilization where civilization should not exist. But eventually global warming will lead us to finding the bodies of serial killer victims. So that is something to look forward to.

[Marcus Parks]

Honestly, it's kind of nice. The heat wave is really helping us crack a bunch of cold.

[Henry Zabrowski]

From your grave.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

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[Marcus Parks]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. Seems amazing, right? It's because it is. From consultations to events and experiences, showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Which is good because let's just say I need it. You know, as you may or may not know, I lost horse picks.com in a very, very public and embarrassing auction to a young man by the name of Charlie Bucket, who has decided to take my horse picks and drive it towards the right. Some of the incendiary horse picks that I've seen, including Steve Bannon on a Clydesdale. One of the worst I saw was Ivanka Trump inside of a mare. And I know that, like, this is not the direction that I saw. Horsepix.com and, and that little boy, I didn't know that he'd become a full fledged Nazi and, and grow his hair into broccoli shapes and do all sorts of things I don't understand. Which is why I've started Emu Paintings.com thank you Squarespace, because Emu Paintings.com are these really it's an exceptional way for me to get you paintings of emus in various positions that emus would normally be. And in a way I find it both amusing and inspiring to see what emus can do using the painter's brush and imagination. And if it wasn't for Squarespace, I would be absolutely effed to the gills. That's the term for being absolutely s out of luck. Squarespace, thank you for streamlining your workflow with built in tools because I would not have been able to get this website up fast enough due to the legal fees I've received and the personal heartache and my own health deteriorating. I just want to say thank you Squarespace for all your help and emu paintings.com is going to be just as good and just as funny and relevant. I promise. Had to squarespace.com left for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code left to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. You got any fun trips coming up? One thing you probably haven't put on your packing list. Learning language. But with Babel, you can start talking in just like a few weeks. It's easy. Starts with your lips. Second steps your teeth, then your tongue, then your gullet, then your brain. Start speaking a new language with confidence thanks to Babbel's conversation based technique that quickly teaches you useful words and phrases about the things you actually talk about in the real world. There's so many different ways to experience Europe and you don't want to do it in the cloud, right? You want to know what the German signs say. You want to know what's in that sausage. That's actually one of the biggest things I want to know because German sausages come in three shades of white, then three shades of brown and one has venison in them and one has Durdonkin in them and one has pig latinum and one of them has krushnark in them. All right? And I don't know what these all are and so I need German teak. Dial it in. Help me with my order. You want to sound right at the restaurant because if not, they're going to make fun of you because that's what they do to Americans. All right, do us right in Europe. Learn languages from Babel. Learn another language. Babel is gifting our listeners 55% off subscriptions. @babel.com left get up to 55% [e-mail] left spelled B A B B E L.com left babel.com left rules and restrictions may apply.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, before we get into the story of David Parker Ray and the people who joined him in his deeds most foul, let's acknowledge our source for this series. Today we've got Cries in the Desert by John Glatt, who also. Who also wrote one of the books we used in our Lori Valo and Chad Daybell series. He wrote a Doomsday Mom.

[Marcus Parks]

I believe John Glatt sounds like a guy who lives in unpleasant life. Sounds like a guy who makes his family miserable. We love you, John, and we feel for you.

[Ed Larson]

You know, he ends every conversation.

[Marcus Parks]

Glad to know ya. Hey, just so you know, hey, name's John Glatt. If you die by a cult murder, have your family hit me up. All right, I got a book idea for you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, Glatt, disappointingly, he does have some of the same outmoded and offensive attitudes towards homosexuality that a lot of true crime authors have. Have. For some bizarre reason that I've never figured out. But the book is nevertheless, what you'd call a meat and potatoes true crime narrative.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what it is? It's. I think a lot of it is a not Definitely a deep, not understanding and also like an appliance of, like, it's almost like a. Homosexuals exist in a mysterious, cryptic world.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, that's always this idea that every homosexual is some, like, they have, like, a bunch of deviant friends and they do weird group parties all the time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Deviancy is the key word here.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And I think a lot of. A lot of these true crime authors do get caught up in this idea that homosexuality is deviant behavior somehow instead of seeing it as totally normal.

[Ed Larson]

Well, a lot of serial killers are closeted homosexuals.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Some not.

[Marcus Parks]

David Parker Ray.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No. No, no, no.

[Ed Larson]

Well, maybe he was.

[Marcus Parks]

We'll find out.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, he wasn't. All right, he definitely wasn't.

[Marcus Parks]

Spoilers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And so let's get into our redo of David Parker Ray through. Starting with where the man himself began his life. So David Parker Ray was a Southwest native, born in 1939 to a couple with the very Southwestern names of Cecil and Nettie in the desert town of Bell in New Mexico. I've known many. Anytime you look through anyone's, like, family history in the Southwest, there's always a Cecil, there's always a Nettie. They're all out there.

[Marcus Parks]

But I will say, due to our Lincoln series, the amount of Ruggles representation in this country is surprising. A lot of living Ruggles. There's a lot of this. Someone knows a Mortimer. Many, many like Mortimers around.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, he's gonna be killed by bullies, I guess.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Morty Rick and Morty Mortimer.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, but still, you should learn to not name your child Morty.

[Henry Zabrowski]

True. Well, like many serial killers, David Parker Ray was raised in a violent, alcohol fueled household. And he would bear the brunt of his father drunken rages at the slightest provocation. Cecil Ray, however, left when David was just 10. I guess I should say Cecil Ray. Cecil, most likely Cecil. Cecil Ray, however, left when David was just 10. And since his mother also wanted nothing to do with David and his little sister Peggy, both kids were shipped off to live with their grandparents in the isolated New Mexican town of Mountain Air, which is spelled inexplicably in one run together word.

[Marcus Parks]

No time, no time. No time, no time for spaces. There's gold, gotta get some gold Ain't got time to waste. Where's my pan? Where's my gold pan?

[Henry Zabrowski]

My ner now, by the time David Parker Ray reached junior high in the early 1950s, he had the reputation of being a docile boy. David was the kid who always had his shirt buttoned to the top bottom, which came at the insistence of his strict Christian fundamentalist grandparents who also beat him on the regular.

[Marcus Parks]

They called the Adam's apple the devil's doorknob. That's what my pepe says.

[Ed Larson]

It's so weird because, like, part of me is like, I'm glad they beat him. But then the other side of you is like, oh. But that's probably what led to it.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, just like John Wayne Gacy's father, sometimes the parents are right.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Let's all say that David Parker Ray was an isolated introvert. And there were seeds planted in those early years that would give David Parker a something to internalize during the six years he spent deep in the lonesome New Mexican countryside. Reportedly, during the time that David and his sister lived in mountain air, his father only visited twice. But David's father was the type of man who traveled with his own pornography.

[Marcus Parks]

You got to Sutton. You got to. You never know when you're gonna be in a pinch.

[Henry Zabrowski]

When I was doing journeyman construction work and when I was in high school, I knew guys who travel with their own pornography. It's in a suitcase and it' lot of it.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, Marcus, come check it out.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, they want to show it to you.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, Marcus, come look at this one. It's got a woman severed Foot in it. I look at this when it's a woman on a dog.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It wasn't when it was 17.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, Marcus, come here. Hey.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Recognizing some very bad porn.

[Marcus Parks]

Do you remember this guy? You recognize this guy? That's me, man.

[Ed Larson]

I remember we found my. My buddy's dad's weird porn collection. Cuz he had like. The Playboys are out. You can just find.

[Marcus Parks]

Those are classy.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, but then there'd be other ones that would, you know, have names. I wouldn't. I don't even want to say in this disgusting episode.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah, my dad. I want to say my dad had a magazine called like Cuntish. Like there was like something like that where it was almost cute in a way. Like Cuntish, you know. But yeah, they had a lot of bad magazines back in the day, but they weren't as. I feel like they were even more prevalent than we thought they were. I think old men had different ways of living. Living.

[Henry Zabrowski]

They might have that we didn't under.

[Marcus Parks]

We don't understand.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, Cecil Ray wasn't an old man. You know, he was a man in his 30s, 20s, but let's just say.

[Marcus Parks]

I got the attitude of one.

[Ed Larson]

But they didn't have a porno library in their pocket like we do. So. Yeah, they carry it in a suitcase.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I print mine out.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, it's good. Like a flip book.

[Marcus Parks]

Whoa. It's animated.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, not coincidentally, Cecil Ray liked porn of the sadomasochistic variety. Which must have been damn hard to find in the mid-1950s.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, it's kind of the alt scene's very interesting. Have you ever read anything until like. Like I believe it's Diane Arbus or.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Like that whole world.

[Marcus Parks]

There's a lot of fetish stuff in the 1950s, but not easy to find.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And definitely not easy to find in New Mexico. Albuquerque. Yeah. Hard to find.

[Marcus Parks]

What? I feel like Albuquerque is where all the paddling and the spanking is happening.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, actually.

[Marcus Parks]

Exactly right.

[Henry Zabrowski]

David Parker Ray. It might poop. This might prove that. Yeah, it is a nasty town.

[Ed Larson]

No, it's there. It's there, man. You know, I remember one of the magazines that my buddy's dad had was called Coyote. So I imagine that was from New Mexico.

[Marcus Parks]

Because it's like in a coyote. All I know is that it's an animal driven by hunger from the wilderness to the cities. And that is just to describe a woman as a coyote is really very scary.

[Ed Larson]

It's a wild dog that drinks bl.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And also my friend Maria.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I love Coyotes? No, we're. I'm just saying.

[Marcus Parks]

Love that, Mac.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's going on the record.

[Marcus Parks]

Nothing better like it's just a bunch of pictures of women with dog collars on.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We're of course not saying that SNM porn is what turned David Parker Ray into the monster he became. This isn't Ted Bundy talking to James Dobson here. But there are certainly signposts that come up in the early lives of these men that point them in the direction of how their murderous habits manifest. And the porn that David's father traveled was certainly one of those signposts. Now, like a lot of these guys, David Parker Ray told grandiose lies when he was growing up. See, David, he was a naturally gifted mechanic. That was his lifelong job. So he gained a bit of popularity when it was discovered that he could fix the bikes that belonged to all the other kids in town. But the moment David got a little attention, he started telling people that the now forgotten teenage heartthrob singer, Johnny Ray. Well, Johnny Ray was his cousin.

[Marcus Parks]

That's my cousin.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Sort of a like my uncle works at Nintendo type of situation. And David did all of this in an attempt to gain just a little bit of social currency.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, if he really wanted to, he should have learned to play the guitar himself. And he could have written a song or two and maybe that would have distracted him a little bit.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah. There's definitely never been a fucking. A musician who's ever done anything fucked up and sexual.

[Ed Larson]

Well, there was that one.

[Henry Zabrowski]

There's definitely never been. There's definitely never been a musician in the history who. Who's run, you know, like sex trafficking or like, you know, torture rings or tortured women or abused girls.

[Marcus Parks]

Super bad babysitter from lost profits. What was his name? Ian Watkins.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Ian Watkins, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Super bad babysitter.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. No, but. While David Parker Ray was telling lies about being related to a famous singer, the first bubblings of his future sexual perversions were beginning to manifest behind his docile state. Hair.

[Marcus Parks]

He did have the way I would describe him as. He has pug eyes. Yeah, he has like those lifeless brown, unreadable, like in the center of his. But, you know, great mustache.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. I mean, an incredible mustache, but yeah. Eyes always kind of like downcast at the floor, you know?

[Ed Larson]

Oh, yeah, you say pog or pug?

[Marcus Parks]

Pug.

[Ed Larson]

Okay, cool.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Lifeless eyes like a doll's eye.

[Marcus Parks]

Like Coraline.

[Ed Larson]

Don't get me started. The 50th anniversary.

[Marcus Parks]

Anniversary.

[Ed Larson]

We gotta stay.

[Marcus Parks]

But yeah, I would say David Parker Ray is The core line of serial rapists.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Decades later, David would tell an FBI profiler that his love for sadomasochism and torture blossomed at the age of 13, when he began fantasizing about tying women up to torture and rape them. Furthermore, Ray claimed in the infamous tape he would play for the women he abducted that he'd been raping girls, quote, since I was old enough to jerk up off. Furthermore, one of David's accomplices told police that David had told her that he had committed his first murder when he was a teenager, when he supposedly tied a woman to a tree before killing her.

[Ed Larson]

Which is interesting because we also know that he's a liar.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

So we don't even know what anything that he's saying is true.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And therein lies the problem of the serial killer. You never know what the they're actually. You never know what they're saying is.

[Marcus Parks]

True and what their game is.

[Henry Zabrowski]

What we do know, that's the more important thing, is what their game. You never know what their game is.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. What is that? That tickles their fancy. But with David Parker Ray, the thing that we do know is how much was filmed. Like, there was a lot that was filmed the worst. But the hard part was the fact that none of them featured murder. So you just have all of this. The. This footage, and they're all being like, oh, that woman was just asleep. Like, that was a defense. We're saying all that kind of stuff.

[Ed Larson]

I have so many questions about the videotape, but I feel like I should hold them, please. Okay.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, much like his fellow, we're going to reenact it.

[Marcus Parks]

Don't worry. You and I are, I think, set. It's. It's. Honestly, people were so excited about the last stream. It's what we're doing next. Yeah. Toy Box Last podcast and left presents the Toy Box thriller. We're doing a dance thing inside of my sex dungeon, and I'm going to be Ed dressed as a dog.

[Ed Larson]

Hold on. I thought I was the table.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, you are the lady. My friend Fred Rosie always wanted to be a lady.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, much like his fellow sadomasochism enthusiast Dennis Raider, David Parker Ray would also draw his own torture porn. And he had been doing it from a young age. His sister claimed that she once found David's stash of drawings, but when she confronted him about it, he just laughed it off and said it was, quote, his new hobby.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Yeah, it is. See right here. See, this is Mario, right? Of the Mario Brothers. This is Luigi Mario, his Brother, brother. Right. As you can see, skating says.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Right.

[Marcus Parks]

And he's choking him, right? He's choking him. Yeah, because it's super great for when you pop off when you get in choke, right? And he knows that.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Right over here in the corner over there. That's Yoshi. Yeah, he's his long tongue friend. He's a pervert. He's the twisted one.

[Henry Zabrowski]

He's the twisted.

[Marcus Parks]

He's waiting for one to kill the other one kills the other two going to the corpse.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, so Yoshi's waiting for whoever is going to die.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I'm twisted 12. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm 12 years old.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, I'm eight.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. You want to do this? You want to be my Luigi?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Is this your new hobby, David?

[Marcus Parks]

It's my new house.

[Ed Larson]

So I think good advice for any parent out there that catches their child doing this kind of art is maybe just pay them to draw something nice and show them that, you know, if they draw something nice, they get paid for their work.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You give them a fiver for a cherry tree.

[Marcus Parks]

I say, David, this is super creative and super detailed. Here's $5. Go draw the house. Why don't you go draw a happy son or something?

[Ed Larson]

Okay.

[Henry Zabrowski]

After David graduated high school in 1957, he lived what was a fairly normal life for a working class man in the Southwest when it came to his professions. He continued his lifelong career as a mechanic and general handyman and subsequently developed the skills that he would one day use to construct his own instruments. But as far as his personal relationships went, David Parker Ray was a deadbeat. And he spent the late 50s and early 60s marrying and divorcing twice while fathering a son along the way that he completely abandoned. But in 1967, David met and married an 18 year old in Albuquerque named Glenda. And Glenda gave birth to the daughter that would one day join David in his sexual perversions. The child's name was Glinda Jean Ray, but she's better known as Jessie Ray so as to differentiate herself from her mother who is also named Glenda.

[Marcus Parks]

Why are there so many? Because your mom is a lady junior, right? Isn't your mom Billie Jean?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, no. Well, that's okay. My mom is kind of a lady junior. My grandfather's name's Billy Wayne and her name is Billy.

[Marcus Parks]

This is like a whole southern thing where you'll name the same people. They all named the same name. Like everyone's got the same name, but then they all have have nicknames that don't match the main name. They're like brand new names or they refer to either a physical attribute or a hobby. Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Well, I like.

[Marcus Parks]

It's like, you know, like skipping Tom and there's like. Oh, there's like, you know, One Hand Jeffrey.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Never knew a One Hand Jeffrey.

[Marcus Parks]

But, you know, he's out there.

[Ed Larson]

He's definitely. Yeah, but I think it's One Hand Jeff.

[Marcus Parks]

Be like, hey, my name is. Hey, my name is Bill. Hey, my name's Bill. People call me Steve. I know.

[Ed Larson]

You know, I know a James named Rob, Bobby and stuff like that. Because his dad was James and they didn't want to keep. It was too confusing.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, then why name him James in the fucking first place?

[Ed Larson]

It's not his fault that his parents named him James.

[Marcus Parks]

But you're gonna name him one name and then you're gonna call him another name. Because the original name was too confusing.

[Ed Larson]

Because you child pick what their new name's gonna be.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't think that they do. They're just called this lady Jesse or the.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Or they don't really think it through that it's gonna. They don't think it's gonna be as confusing as it is as it's gonna be. And then they get into it and they realize that it's very confusing.

[Marcus Parks]

People won't be confused. Don't worry. They don't. They all know that there's four Glendas.

[Ed Larson]

You know, it's hard to get creative right after you have a child. You know, they're like, what do you want to name it? My name's Glenda.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You know, might as well.

[Ed Larson]

You keep it going.

[Marcus Parks]

That's why you got to think of it beforehand. Robot Tyrannosaur.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Are these children's names Piano Head?

[Marcus Parks]

Adolf Hitler?

[Ed Larson]

No. Not allowed.

[Marcus Parks]

Not allowed.

[Henry Zabrowski]

The author of Cries in the Desert wrongly tries to make a link between Jesse's sexuality and her relationship with her father. Jesse Ray was indeed a massive lesbian, but sexual orientation has absolutely nothing to do with environment. We know this. The things that happen to us as kids don't quote, unquote, turn us gay. Jesse Ray was very simply, totally outside of her sexuality, a sociopath, much like her father. And the only link between David Parker Ray and her sexual orientation was that they were both raping rapists who enjoyed raping people of the same gender. Coincidentally, though, the same year that Jesse was born was the same year that David Parker Ray said that he joined the local Albuquerque bondage scene, which I at first thought was, you know, somewhat small. In 1967. But, you know, it may have been larger than I thought upon second look at. But all I know is it was probably really fucking weird.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, man. You don't want to join a bondage scene where there's that many cactus around.

[Marcus Parks]

You know it is. Yeah. Cause you know what? It is, too. It's like, why does it. In my mind, right? Like, San Francisco bondage scene.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Ooh, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Right. You know, Amsterdam bondage scene.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, wow.

[Marcus Parks]

Classic Paris. Blah, blah, blah. Albuquerque's bondage scene. All I see is zip ties.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Like, all I see is zip ties, plastic bags.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

A man trying to get away.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I see a lot of brown.

[Ed Larson]

A lot of brown people using dead snakes to tie you down.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. A lot of flaccid penises.

[Ed Larson]

I mean, this is a place where, like, spiders are jewelry.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, I like it. Nothing is better than having your pet be your tie. Like, that's amazing.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And I say this like, I truly do love New Mexico. Like, the land of enchantment. I say. I. I say like, oh, yeah. I say land of enchantment. I say good on you. It's. I. I say it's warranted. I fucking. I adore New Mexico. I think it's a great fucking place. But. But it's fucking. It's creepy as shit.

[Marcus Parks]

I think this very true be called welcome to Albuquerque.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, a few months after Jesse was born, David abandoned his third family. And since this was 1967, the buttoned up fundamentalist reinvented himself as a hippie by growing out his hair and hitchhiking around Arizona and New Mexico. But during David's hippie phase, you just. You're flapping your hair around right now. Henry.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Are you trying to tell me that you've reinvented yourself?

[Marcus Parks]

There's nothing civil about war.

[Ed Larson]

It is amazing, though, how the hippie, like, you know, movement really did hide so many sociopaths.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Because the whole thing was built upon implicitly trusting strangers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's drugs. It's. Yeah. And that's gonna. There's gonna be that. There's a reason why Hate Asbury turns so dark so quickly.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah. They put too much trust in the bikers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. And, oh, no, you can't trust the Hell's Angels.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I trust the Pagans, though. And that's why last podcast on the left here is officially aligning ourselves with the Pagan motorcycle group. I see you at the Meat Boys.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But during David's hippie phase, he may have also committed a murder. Maybe his first, maybe not.

[Ed Larson]

We Know it wasn't a tree.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No. See, in the summer of 69, David hooked up with a teenage girl who was also bumming around the Southwest. A girl girl who is only known today as Sally. Before long, Sally and David moved into a trailer together. When the owner of a truck stop on Route 66 offered David a job as a mechanic. Sally soon became pregnant. But she told the owner's girlfriend that while David had taken her virginity, he was the most gentle and sensitive man she'd ever met. And that was in addition to David being an exceptional lover.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh. Yep.

[Henry Zabrowski]

In other words, this did not sound like a girl. Girl with one foot out of the.

[Ed Larson]

Door sounds like a liar.

[Marcus Parks]

You don't think that David Parker Ray was good at kissing.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But one morning, the owner and his girlfriend woke up to find that Sally had simply vanished along with all of her possessions.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, you know, these chicks are.

[Henry Zabrowski]

This was out of character for the Sally they knew. But David just said that Sally was a free spirit and that he wasn't at all concerned for her well being. Well, the owners chalked Sally up as just another girl who'd returned to Route 66. And they forgot all about her. That is, until David Parker Ray made national headlines three decades later as a serial murderer.

[Marcus Parks]

Oopsie doo. Somebody got famous.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Now, after almost certainly murdering his hippie girlfriend, Sally.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey.

[Henry Zabrowski]

David Parker Ray returned to the family he had abandoned two years earlier in Albuquerque. There he reconnected with his daughter Jesse.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm back. I had a thought that you might have missed me.

[Henry Zabrowski]

By date, David played the role of the family man. But his nights were spent in Albuquerque's aforementioned S M scene with either sex workers or women he picked up in local bars.

[Marcus Parks]

Just everybody eating chicken fried steak and eating all the. That's all I think of was Tex.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Mex food every day. And it's incredible.

[Marcus Parks]

I just think Tex Mexico and large format sex activity doesn't mix.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, it doesn't.

[Ed Larson]

Certainly didn't smell good.

[Marcus Parks]

No, just green chili. Everyone's just eating that green pork chili, which I love.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, no. Tex Mex is good, but it makes you £400 real fast.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, but I also feel like that then also makes you super able to be in the S M scene because of how many whips you can take.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. Because you have so much fat.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. When you're bigger, you're stronger.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I understand. You think? Hodeva continued these pursuits with more and more intensity as the years went by. And he later told the FBI that by the time he reached his 30s, sadomasochistic acts and fantasies had completely come to dominate his life. Even while masturbating, David said that he could never ejaculate unless he was imagining himself killing a woman. Now it's unknown if David Parker Ray killed anyone in the 1970s. From what he told the FBI, he would have dormant periods where he wouldn't necessarily need to imagine killing a woman in order to ejaculate.

[Marcus Parks]

I just sometimes pour some ketchup on her, sometimes the ketchup ain't working. I put a little, I put a little jelly on there and then.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And this is just in my brain. It's just my imagination. It's just happening up here.

[Marcus Parks]

And then next thing I know I'm at a diner, I'm like, oh, that's the issue, David. Every single time you want to kill a woman, eat something, you're getting hangry.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Cuz we all know the best chicken fried steak in all New Mexico is right here in True to Consequences. What we do, what we do know is that David spent the 70s moving around New Mexico and Texas working various high skill blue collar jobs like running gas stations, repairing railroad tracks briefly. He even taught classes at a prestigious school for aircraft mechanics. David's marriage, however, once again fell apart under the weight of what it was like to be in a marriage with someone like David Parker Ray. So he left Glenda and little Jesse in 1981 for a new life in Phoenix. There David met a woman named Joni Lee, whom David chose as his fourth wife.

[Marcus Parks]

I don't think Joni Lee can be a first wife. I think that Joni, if you're named Joni Lee, unfortunately you have a life of tragedy. Yeah, yeah. You're born divorced. Yeah. Jody Lee is smoking a cigarette as an infant. She's putting it out on her brother's clit. She's getting out of there. She's immediately getting through a forced marriage. She's having the baby at 2 and.

[Ed Larson]

Then she's back at work 80 hours a week.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh yeah. No, Joanie Lee ain't getting an engagement ring that wasn't bought at Sam's Club.

[Marcus Parks]

Joanie Lee hasn't seen a sunset in a pleasant way once. Jody Lee has never woke up in her own bed. This is an advertisement from BetterHelp. Oh, people are really getting stressed out of work. Not me. All I do is make them laugh. And there's nothing stressful about making people laugh. Not the most esoteric, nebulous thing in the world, but for those of you that do experience workplace stress. It's now as well, it's considered one of the top causes of declining mental health, with 61% of the global workforce experiencing higher than normal levels of stress. It's almost like none of us like to work this hard. Most of us can't wave goodbye to work. But we could start small with a focus on wellness. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. Maybe they can make you feel better. And it works. With an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. And that's just in the numbers. It's in the numbers. It works. It's convenient too. It's on your computer. So that makes it super convenient. You don't have to go to some weird giant international hub in the basement of a of a skyscraper just on your computer. Very easy. So as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/live. That's betterhelp.com lastpod whether your child is trying to catch up, stay sharp or get a head start for the fall, IXL can make learning a seamless part of summer. Who doesn't love to learn during the summer? Iexcel is an award winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're brushing up on math or diving into social studies. I think IXL is one of the best things ever happened to me and my family. It's taught Carmi how to read. It's taught Wendy how to do our taxes. Honestly, it's just nice because I just pay them in chicken. That's all they want is chicken and kibs. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and last podcast on the left. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL member membership when they sign up today in ixl.com last. Visit ixl.com last to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. You know what doesn't belong in your epic summer plans? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. While you're planning beach trips, barbecues and three day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. Make the switch. Switch to Mint Mobile. Don't let your mobile service be sold to you by a couple of guys on a podcast with Mint. You can get the coverage and speed you're used to, but for way less money. And for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. I got my Mint Mobile directly from Ryan Reynolds. I met him in a parking lot. He didn't know I was going to be there. I'd followed him from his home. I told him what my plans were, who I was, and what was all about. He subscribed to the podcast, of course. But then, in order to deter me from the rest of my plans, Ryan Reynolds gave me a free phone. And I gotta say, it really turned my life around. Because while I was desperate, scared, and wondering how I was gonna work my way out of all of the various messes I had worked myself into, Mint Mobile showed me that there was a way to survive. So this year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Bank get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com lpotl that's mintmobile.com lpotl upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time. New customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes. An unlimited plan, taxes and fees extra. C Mint Mobile for details.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, David Parker Ray was objectively an excellent mechanic.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And he used these skills to turn an auto repair shop in Phoenix called Canal Motors into a thriving business when he came on as their number one guy. As a result, David had money to burn. So he bought two properties at two different bodies of water in New Mexico in the early 80s. One property was at a place called Stone Lake. But the far more important purchase was a plot of land at Elephant Butte. David plopped down trailers on both properties and used them as weekend retreats where he would bring women for further escapades into the world of sexual bondage. They said it was like a 700 mile triangle between Phoenix, Stone Lake and Elephant Butte and just go round and round and round, picking up women wherever he could.

[Marcus Parks]

I just call this whole area David land. Now over here we got, obviously this is the play area. ELO Elephant Butte Lake. Isn't it amazing? Now, the Indians around here tell me that elephant boot comes from the story of a large elephant sitting down making a lake with his butt. And the local Indians had to shoot the elephant to death with the arrows in order to get it off their chief. Now over here's where I'll be. You, here's the zappers.

[Ed Larson]

Now did was he a Smooth talker or.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, very much so. Yeah, that. Well, he had a very low, calm way of talking. And. And yeah, he. He could talk his way into just about anything. Yeah, he could pick up. He. He could pick up women.

[Marcus Parks]

So he was tall.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

So he's similar to Bundy.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Not quite as. Bundy had a lot more like, I guess, char. Like natural charm. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Also, Bundy had jobs. Bundy was around people. Like, Bundy actually had to shapeshift a lot more and then went totally feral where he didn't really have to. You put elephant beauty where it's like. Like it's not where you go to get a. It's not where you go.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's not where you. It's where you go to be left alone.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Yeah, That's. That's the whole. That's this entire area of New Mexico. It's just. It's where you go to be left alone.

[Ed Larson]

An end of the world society.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, Ted Bundy was. Yeah. A little more manic and he. Of the world. You know, he went to law school, you know, so on and so forth. But, you know, David Parker Ray is just, you know, he's skating through life.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. But he's also an expert in his job.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I mean, you could say that they were sort of like the blue collar and white collar side of the same coin. Yeah, you could say that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they'd be in that. They'd be a great odd couple cast. Like, I'd love to see the two of them in a living room fighting over the top television.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, I would also say both Republicans, but for different reasons.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, perhaps recognizing the unique possibilities that Elephant Butte provided as a place to bring and murder women, David sold the place at Stone Lake and soon began splitting his time between Phoenix and Elephant Butte. He was not yet in the location where he would build his toy box, but David did buy a double wide trailer on a plot of land in Elephant Butte where most of his neighbors were retirees who only wintered at the lake. Lake. But once David began spending more time in Elephant Butte, the ideas for the toy box began to coalesce. David fell further into the world of sadomasochism when he began designing, building, and selling specialized bondage equipment that was sold only through a PO Box that David had set up himself.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what they say, if you build it, they won't come g. God.

[Ed Larson]

It's like, technically a good joke.

[Marcus Parks]

Thank you.

[Ed Larson]

But like. But I hate it.

[Marcus Parks]

Sound like, in terms of like composing the joke.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. No, it sounds, it's. Yeah, it's good on paper when you hear it, that's when I hit you.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. A great joke.

[Henry Zabrowski]

David's daughter Jesse was reaching her teenage years by the time David began spending more time at Elephant Butte. There, the two of them became close because Jesse was a tomboy who was just as talented of a mechanic as her father. From what Jesse said, though, David made no attempt to hide his sadomasochistic lifestyle throughout her childhood, nor did he hide the women he engaged in it with. By her teens, Jesse was well aware of almost everything that was going on, and she came to see her father's behavior as totally normal.

[Marcus Parks]

Normal.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Incredibly, though, while exposing a teenager to adult sexual activity, that's absolutely abuse. It doesn't seem like David Parker Ray sexually abused his daughter in the more conventional sense.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm not a monster.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It does almost seem like that where it's just like, you know, there's just some lines the man can't cross.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, he's very. Again, it's. That's why he mostly were used sex workers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

So he could look down on them. Jesse's a very interesting case.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Jesse's an extraordinarily like. And we. And the thing is that, like, Jesse's out there, you know, like out there, like Jesse's out there. The, the lot. Like I, you know, test one of our research assistants, like try to find me something on Jesse. And the only thing that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I scoured myself.

[Henry Zabrowski]

The only thing that she was able to find was a Reddit comment that said that they took a trucking course with Jesse a couple of years ago and that she was fucking terrifying.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, I. Oh yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Unpleasant person.

[Marcus Parks]

I will say though, great trucker. Yeah. Jesse, David Parker Ray's lesbian daughter, is an amazing trucker character.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And it needs. That's a show. I guess.

[Ed Larson]

So it's a show no one wants to watch.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I'm not watching that show.

[Ed Larson]

It is.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It is technically a show.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. There's a clam Stoppers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

There's a reason she's alone all the time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. The only clam I can handle is mine. Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, instead, the two of them spent a lot of time together at Elephant Butte, actually bonding all while Rey's sexual exploits existed as a sort of constant background noise that Jesse would often be exposed to. Now, by age 19, Jesse claimed that she began to feel conflicted about her father's overt sexual behavior. She said that she once watched David hire a sex worker for a bondage session. But when Things became too violent. Violent. The woman ran out of the house naked, too terrified to even try and grab her clothes.

[Marcus Parks]

Sounds like a evil, evil always sunny like plot line. The idea of like these naked screaming sex workers are just running out of the trailer and just like, daddy, what you doing in there? And he's just like, you know how these ladies are. Everybody's getting excited.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I mean, from how I read it, like she wasn't like hanging out outside, like she was in the room.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Like, you know, she's not the other.

[Marcus Parks]

She's in the other half of the trailer.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Like, yeah. Very much exposed to all of it. Now naturally, this woman running away. This caused Jesse to question whether her father's behavior really was normal. And as such, something happened between the two of them in 1986 that prompted Jesse to call the FBI on her flight father. Although we have no idea what the conflict actually was.

[Marcus Parks]

I asked for a Jetta, Daddy, and you got me a go. How am I supposed to go around the other rapist women without a Jetta?

[Ed Larson]

Maybe she really did think FBI stood for female body inspector.

[Marcus Parks]

I'd like to join the FBI. I actually have quite an experience. I've been expecting female bodies since I was 12 years old.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, in June of that year. Well, I mean, what, what we do know is that even with all the information we have now, the FBI still believes that Jesse called the feds on David in 1986 not out of concern for other people, but out of pure spite. Something happened, he pissed her off and she called the FBI or which is.

[Marcus Parks]

The way standard answer we see across the board. Board started to realize, oh, I'm a big old accomplice in the center of this thing. Maybe I better get ahead of this before I'm arrested as well.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I think she, I, I think this was before she started, before she started getting into it. Like she was much younger at this point when she started getting into it. Yeah, this, that was years later, I believe.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. It also sounds like the FBI up and this is how they want to portray it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I mean you, you literally, you never know possibly.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I mean it is, it is very difficult to know what sometimes when the FBI makes statements, it's very difficult to know what is the truth and what's a cover up or what's. And by cover up I mean like their narrative. I, by cover up I mean, you know, sweeping away the mistakes that they made in the past.

[Ed Larson]

I mean it's no question about it, a mistake. It's what, 15 years before he was caught 13, 13 years. So they knew they. He was on their radar, just didn't give a fuck.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I mean, in June of that year, 1986, you know, and he was arrested in 99, Jesse called the FBI and told them that her father was kidnapping women, torturing them and selling them as sex slaves across the border in Mexico.

[Marcus Parks]

And they're like, God damn it, that's our job.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And as a result, the FBI spent the next year investigating David Parker Ray's activities in the Southwest. They brought him in for questioning several times. Main.

[Marcus Parks]

And their main response was, ooh, yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But no evidence for sex trafficking was ever found, and the FBI dropped the. The case. According to one of Jesse Ray's friends, the call to the FBI was the last time that Jesse tried breaking free of the life that her father had seemingly groomed for her. After the FBI was out of the picture, Jesse was more or less all in when it came to torturing, raping, and possibly killing other women at her father's side.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, I accidentally heard a fact that I found interesting that they had learned in Vietnam when we were doing investigation, when we were doing interrog of Viet Cong, it's a part of what they viewed as. They have these like ways of interrogating. And one is this avoidance.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Who has ways of interrogating United States government.

[Marcus Parks]

And that one, they think they call it avoidance. So the first thing is, obviously they're under. They're under duress. They're in the house, they. They don't want to be. They're in the. These, the center. They don't want to be there. But then you then do what they call conflict or it's something. And then you engage with them. Right. And every single time you have a fight. Fight. Right. About their ideology, because they were always about like, oh, the Viet Cong, their ideology so strong. How will we ever break them? Is that what you discover is that the more you have a continued fight and makeup with somebody, the more you even accidentally, against your will, become ingratiated to them. So you could almost see that at this point in conflict, they have went through the FBI. She's like, I called the FBI. Yeah, they've now exonerated my father. But the father now knows that you are. You have called the FBI or somebody called the FBI. Yeah, somebody brought him in here.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

So now you gotta play ball. And then it's more of a, how do you live with yourself? Oh, I have to choose it.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, it's quite possible. That is very, very possible. Now, as far as the first murder that could definitively be linked to David Parker goes. The victim was not a sex worker, an addict, or even a wit woman. Instead, David Parker Ray's first possible murder victim was his boss at Canal Motors, a man named Billy Ray Bowers, who disappeared in 1988.

[Marcus Parks]

Never kill your boss, Rob. Never kill your boss. That's when it all comes crumbling down. Nobody cares about what happens to anybody.

[Ed Larson]

Else but a guy named Billy Ray Bowers. Like it was only a matter of time before he was murdered.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Billy Ray Bowers is murder victim all over.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I mean, Billy owes money. Yeah, exactly.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. If Billy Ray and Joanie Lee ever.

[Marcus Parks]

Get together, they're gonna go on a killing spree. They're gonna rob a bunch of pranks and die in a hail of bullets.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, it's just that's when the universe opens up into a black hole of sadness and we all just get sucked inside. Now, Billy Ray had been a silent financial partner at Canal Motors for years, but he'd expressed an interest in cashing out on his half of the business. This, of course, would have been bad news financially for David Parker Ray. Now, we don't know if David made any specific threats, but we do know that Billy Ray Bowers began carrying a gun about a week before he disappeared. And he had told friends and family to call the police if anything happened to him. David Parker Ray was quite intelligent in the ways of murder. So rather than simply kill Billy Ray Bowers, David Parker Ray allegedly made him disappear from the city of Phoenix completely On September 22, 1988, exactly a year after Billy Ray disappeared. And this is why everyone is almost positive, 99.99 sure that David Parker Ray killed him. A man vacationing at Elephant Butte Lake from Santa Fe was fishing when he spotted what was obviously a body covered in a blue tarp floating in the water.

[Marcus Parks]

This is regulation. Can I pull this in?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Police were notified, and they quickly surmised that the victim had been shot execution style in the back of the head. The body, of course, belonged to Billy Ray, and it had somehow broken free from the two boat anchors that had been used to submerge it. But other than the methods of murder and disposal, the cops had no other leads on who this corpse belonged to or where it came from. This was, after all, 1990. DNA matching didn't exist, and it was impossible to know how long that body had been in that location lake. And furthermore, the disappearance of Billy Ray Bowers had been a crime that had occurred a year earlier, 400 miles away. And even though David Parker Ray had been interviewed for that murder or actually for that disappearance, there were no clues pointing towards his guilt. So the corpse that was found wrapped in the blue tarp, that was filed away as a John Doe. And that body would not be formally identified as Billy Ray Baltimore Hours until David Parker Ray was arrested nearly a decade later.

[Ed Larson]

You know, it's interesting because I saw pictures of the body exhumed and the tarp looked like fresh. It didn't look filthy, like it was in a lake for a year.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

So it makes me think that maybe he just had this guy tied up somewhere for a long time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I actually never even thought about that.

[Marcus Parks]

He met it, very much so tortured his boss. That must have been a lot of fun for him.

[Ed Larson]

Now I'm taking notes.

[Marcus Parks]

Really enjoyed that, actually. I envy him. I envy that joy.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, I read that there was something about like they didn't know how long the body was in the water due to something about, like, the changing temperatures. Maybe it's something about like desert temperatures, like, so hot during the day, so cold at night. And, you know, it might, you know, fuck up whatever, you know, equations that they use or whatever methods they use or whatever they use back in 1990. So who knows? Now, after the FBI dropped their case against David for human trafficking in 1987, it seems like David began to feel untouchable. And when guys like him feel like there aren't any consequences to their behavior, they start getting, for lack of a better word, inventive. Consequently, sometime in the late 80s, David Parker Ray decided that he was going to use his mechanical expertise to construct what he considered to be the ultimate torture chamber.

[Marcus Parks]

It's too much space. That's what he had. Literally had too much space and too much time.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, I mean, a lot of these. I mean, on the way my buddy Dave was saying it, all of these plots and elephant butte, they all have about a quarter acre of land to play around with.

[Marcus Parks]

Land. Too much land. He should have been focused.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Looking at himself as a sexual scientist who is highly skilled in the art of pain, David began planning the construction of what would be, from his perspective, a laboratory to study the women he abducted as he inflicted tortures, both physical and psychological. Like a scientist, David would approach the act of torture methodically, carefully documenting, cataloging and filming everything he. He did. Eventually, David Parker Ray would figure out that the videos he used to track his progress could also make him money. And he would sell the documents of his evil to S and M enthusiasts all over the world through his P.O. box.

[Marcus Parks]

That is one of those pieces of information that is also lost to time. Who the fuck was he sending tapes to?

[Henry Zabrowski]

I mean, I'm sure that he had just a little ad in the back of a fucking S and M magazine that he took out that he probably paid a dollar a month. Month. Four people write him, he gives them a catalog like. And back in those days.

[Marcus Parks]

But is that evidence?

[Henry Zabrowski]

I know, I mean, yeah, it is, but the people back in those days, like, they either didn't know or didn't care that what they. That they were actually buying footage of crimes. Like actual crimes.

[Marcus Parks]

But then you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

There were snuff films because no one died.

[Marcus Parks]

Who knows though? We have no clue.

[Henry Zabrowski]

We don't know.

[Marcus Parks]

Because then I think about all.

[Henry Zabrowski]

While we do know that no snuff film has ever been been uncovered, I.

[Marcus Parks]

Am still just really. Except for. Well, nothing that none of the aforementioned. Like what you saw an 8 millimeter?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. The whole idea of like people killing, like porno movies in which someone dies at the end, it doesn't exist. It's an urban myth.

[Marcus Parks]

We haven't seen them. My thing is that we know that Dean Coral was selling tapes. John Wayne Gacy was selling tapes. Herb Mount Meister. Herb Meister was probably selling tapes. This is another example of somebody that was selling tapes during like not that long after this. So it does feel like there. There was something that's just this. This whole crooked network. One day. One day we'll figure all this out. One day it's gonna be me with my fucking whiteboard. My six shooter revolver. I'm gonna go out there, I'm gonna find everyone on these lists.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, the thing about David Parker, Ray, is that it was. It really wasn't like a secret network. No, it was an ad in the back of a magazine. Porn that you can write to him, you know, like, if you interested in SNM tapes, write to me. I'll. And he would send a list of like, hey, here's the things I got. And then, you know, he'd send out of the video of whatever people requested.

[Ed Larson]

And I'm sure he said, like, these are consensual or whatever. Just ass.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I mean, at the end of the day, they probably didn't ask and he probably didn't say. I mean, in fact, I would. I would imagine he probably hinted that they weren't.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Depending on the customer to make it more exciting for them.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. And they. But then they thought. But then it's double, double. Because him saying these are real torture videos. And blah, blah, blah. Him saying that juices them up and then they're like, there's no way. It is. This is all.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah, this is all kayfabe. Yeah. Most chilling, however, were the souvenirs that David Parker Ray planned to collect during his years as a so called sexual scientist. Evidence of his exploits. See, in 2011, the FBI released images of everything they recovered from David's property in the hopes of closing some cold cases. Seeing if maybe like pictures of, of necklaces and earrings and, you know, various forms of jewelry, hoping that somebody would recognize something. But despite the publication of over 400 images, not a single person has been linked to these items to this day, as far as I know. Mostly that's because David Parker Ray was careful to limit his victims to the so called less dead. The sex workers, the addicts, the transients of the American Southwest who were unlikely to be reported missing or if they were reported, unlikely to have their disappearances seriously investigated. But even when the disappearances of these women were investigated years later and far too late, the FBI still came up with nothing. Even though there are videotapes and photographs of scores of victims, nearly all of them are unidentifiable. And the FBI therefore has absolutely no idea how many women David Parker Ray tortured and possibly killed once he moved out to Elephant Butte Lake. All they know is that the number is likely staggering.

[Ed Larson]

This blows my mind. Yeah, because like, you know, I, it's crazy. But they don't recognize any of the women.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no.

[Ed Larson]

How many of the videos, how many victims are in these videos?

[Marcus Parks]

They had something of. He said what. In one of the videos, when he, when he started doing the tape, he said he'd already brought 37 women to.

[Ed Larson]

The, to the box.

[Marcus Parks]

And that then that was like, that was videotape. That's like box time that he had done it. Like, while he had already had the dungeon all put together, he had said 37. They said that they have piles up to it. I think that was when he charged with 60. Right? They believe it's 60 somewhere. Well, I mean, they believe it's 60.

[Henry Zabrowski]

60 is the number of women that one of his accomplices, like one of his accomplices said, like, I think he killed around 60 women, you know, and it's really difficult to tell exactly how many there are and exactly how many because, you know, you might have so, like videotapes from so many different women and you can identify, like, make okay through like various, you know, bodily, you know, scars or, you know, shapes, whatever. Like you might Be able to identify different women that way. But then there's like so, so much jewelry. So many pieces of jewelry. You know, it's like there's just. There's so much stuff and it's impossible to put it all together.

[Ed Larson]

And none of these people were missing people.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Nope.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, they weren't missing on the right record. And they obviously weren't alive to show up.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

To say that that's my stuff.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And the b. Yeah. And the bodies are nowhere to be found.

[Ed Larson]

And a lot of the pe. And a lot of times when you see these kind of things, maybe they are alive and they just don't want to come forward because they don't want to deal with it.

[Marcus Parks]

Of course not.

[Ed Larson]

Because especially after he's already caught.

[Marcus Parks]

Dude.

[Ed Larson]

In prison.

[Henry Zabrowski]

100%.

[Marcus Parks]

Let's say maybe you're not a sex worker anymore and you were, you were destroy. You were tortured by a man. The last thing you want to go do is go walk, watch him in court.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh yeah. No, we're. We're gonna actually next episode we're gonna talk about a woman who was tortured and let go. Who did not report him. Who could have. Yeah. And just didn't.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Didn't want to deal with it.

[Ed Larson]

Well, it's terrifying.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Horrifying. I mean, it's very unfair on the woman.

[Ed Larson]

And no one believes you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Exactly. Now, David Parker Ray finally settled on a piece of land on an unpaved street at Elephant Butte, 513 Bass Road. And after moving his double wide onto the property, David brought in a 22 foot long white cargo trailer. The kind you'd attach to a semi. While David would tell his neighbors that this trailer was simply his workshop. It was of course, David's customized torture dungeon left in plain sight for anyone to see. A dungeon which David affectionately called his toy box. See, David saw the toy box not only as a location where he could enact his fantasies, but also as a sort of living museum. Museum for his growing collection of sadomasochistic devices, both store bought and homemade. This is also where he kept his pornography collection, where he kept his personal writings and drawings. It's like a presidential library for perversion. Tellingly, though, the first thing David we're.

[Marcus Parks]

Gonna get another one. It's like next this is going to happen.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Tellingly though, the first thing David did when he parked the trailer that would become his toy box was make and hang a hand painted welcome sign inside the entrance that stood said Satan's Den.

[Marcus Parks]

See evil. Right.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, It's a shitty sign too.

[Henry Zabrowski]

It's a really shitty sign.

[Ed Larson]

Everything in there, no, you know, for lack of a better word, is like, you know, pricey. You know, it's like. It's like, you know, it's like almost fancy in a weird way.

[Marcus Parks]

He put a lot of money into it.

[Ed Larson]

He put a lot of money into it. But the sign, it just, you know, a little effort into everything but the sign.

[Marcus Parks]

Eddie. Hey, Eddie. That's called a touch of home for me. It's a touch of home from me. For me. So I could see it. I could see a little home spun a little bit. A little bit of country nostalgia.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Incredible at mechanics, terrible at arts and crafts.

[Marcus Parks]

That's been my main problem. Me and Hitler. It's been my. One of my main issues. Terrible painter.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, David's toy box was not put together in a haphazard manner because his fantasies were sketched out on paper long before he put them into practice.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they call me Leonardo Da.

[Henry Zabrowski]

He soundproofed the trailer so the women's screams wouldn't be heard. He installed a deadbolt for extra security and even installed an AC unit so the women wouldn't suffocate in the New Mexico heat.

[Marcus Parks]

Let me confess. It's for me.

[Henry Zabrowski]

As far as equipment went, David built an elaborate system of pulleys, weights, clamps, chains, and padlocks, along with a collection of whips and gurneys, all designed to inflict the maximum amount of time pain. The centerpiece, however, was a remote controlled gynecological examination table with stirrups and electrodes installed at the head and midsection.

[Marcus Parks]

Man, if this was. Now we're looking at an app. We're looking at some kind of meme coin.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, he definitely couldn't get away with this anymore.

[Marcus Parks]

It's be hard. It would be really, really hard.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, there's too many. Too many things run through the phone registers.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Too much.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I do passwords and like, you know, identification TE's and like, I don't.

[Marcus Parks]

Count Elephant Butte out. I'm certain that there's still plenty of career perverts and deviants that are doing very well in Elephant Butte, didn't he.

[Ed Larson]

But didn't need to put like a, A, like a, like a metal collar on. On the women and attach that to a chain and, like, lock that to the ground.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

So no matter what, they couldn't get away.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, Eddie.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. All right.

[Ed Larson]

I just felt like you left that out. No, no, no. We're getting there.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Feel free to add in anything horrible detail. Any horrible. Any horrible detail, because you know, I, I, I, I try to pick and choose.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Because the amount of, because I mean honestly. Yeah. The amount of shit in that dungeon, the amount of things that he installed, the, the, the sheer number of things that he thought through to the tiniest detail, it staggering.

[Ed Larson]

You know who I'd like to list as a suspect? I listened to the entire tape because I like found, because at first I found like versions of the tape that were like. Really? Other people read it in a scarier voice.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Sure.

[Ed Larson]

But then I found his which is just like very plain and very scarier because of how plain it is and how matter of fact it is.

[Marcus Parks]

The hello there bitch.

[Ed Larson]

But I want to, I worry about the man who made the video that I saw because of all the images that he added to it, how creative he got with the material. That man's a suspect.

[Marcus Parks]

I could have met David if I could have just shown him my ability to edit his work into an amazing caval gate of entertainment. Then maybe, just maybe we could add a web series. Oh man.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Another David's torture devices. He had a seven foot long coffin equipped with restraint hooks and ventilation holes. Nearby was a rack of equipment where each piece was labeled with names like ankle spreader, knee spreader, Vaginal stretcher.

[Marcus Parks]

They do what they say. Yeah, they're not just clever names.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Lining the walls were cabinets filled with syringes, electric cattle prods, chemicals, a disturbing assortment of dildos. So many dildos. It's incredible how many dildos the man had.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Over here where I keep the dildos, I call that Panthros Palace. Obviously Panthro, the, the Thundercat, the Thundercats.

[Ed Larson]

Over here are the Pocket Pussies as I like to call them. Dill, Don't.

[Marcus Parks]

Stupid.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Stupid. For decoration, David used photos of women being tortured.

[Marcus Parks]

Yep.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Even constructed a childish little diorama of naked toy figures engaged in bonded sessions which he put into a glass cabinet. He was very proud of that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, there's like Lego. It's Legos, but it's more like a Let me go.

[Ed Larson]

Right, yeah. See like my mom had like swati crystals and you know.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, but.

[Ed Larson]

You know his curio cabinet was just a nightmare.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.

[Marcus Parks]

Cuz guess what? When I look at Hummels, I don't get horny. Yeah, I need to see little figures tortured each other.

[Ed Larson]

Scary old cabinet.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that's hilarious. I like you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Top it all off though. David installed a TV monitor attached to the camera he was using to film every second of torture. Because the TV monitor was set up in just the right time spot, the women could watch everything that was happening to them while knowing that other people would be privy to their pain and humiliation.

[Ed Larson]

Now they. He also. He had multiple women at once sometimes, right? Or at least according to him, he did.

[Henry Zabrowski]

According to him.

[Marcus Parks]

According to him.

[Ed Larson]

Did he have other places that were soundproofed on the property?

[Marcus Parks]

No, it was still. It was all in here.

[Ed Larson]

So he wouldn't have been able to have multiple women at one time in there?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Maybe, maybe not. Yeah. Depending.

[Marcus Parks]

It was. The women are actually more on the other side of the table. He had people helping him that were a part of the process.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Now, as you can tell, David Parker Ray had taken this project quite seriously. And he became so infatuated with it that he quit the job in Phoenix that he literally murdered a man to keep so he could fully devote himself to his toy box in 1991.

[Marcus Parks]

It ain't a phase, mom.

[Henry Zabrowski]

To make money, David started his own business in Elephant Butte called Dave's Automotive Repairs. And since David was the only emergency repair man for miles, he had a wide stretch of Interstate 25 that was all his own. If you broke down out there, David Parker Ray was going to be the guy who come pick up your car, man.

[Ed Larson]

That's what happened to me in Yeehaw Junction, man.

[Henry Zabrowski]

These.

[Ed Larson]

They came for me, dude. I had to give him my DVD player and a couple of DVDs just to like get my transmission fixed. And I had to stay there for like two days.

[Marcus Parks]

You're luckily that you didn't. They didn't put the Yeehaw and Yee Haw Junction, you know.

[Ed Larson]

Oh my God, it was awful. I. I sat at the bar for two days in there and it was all. They wouldn't. They were like, yeah, I play the Eagles. And I felt like I was like playing like the devil's music, you know, and like they were very upset.

[Marcus Parks]

Why are you playing this hippie? This hippie woke music.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That place. I hated that place so much. But then a semi truck drove through it and it's gone now, so that's nice.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Wow.

[Marcus Parks]

All takes is one.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, over the next few years, David Parker Ray would actually develop a local reputation as a good neighbor. These are the years that my Buddy Dave spent two doors away waving and saying, hey, Mr. Ray. As he and his friends ran by David Parker Ray's property.

[Marcus Parks]

Hi. Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Hey there. Hi.

[Marcus Parks]

Nice to see you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yep. Now, Elephant Butte, let's go find your sister.

[Marcus Parks]

So it's from Natural Boons. I know what it's from let's go find.

[Ed Larson]

It means something completely different, though, when you say it here.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah, Very much so.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, Elephant Butte really is just half of the equation here. While it was perfect for the disposal of corpses, the nearby town of Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, was also a prime spot for choosing victims. See, even though Tier C, as locals call it, even though it only has a population of 5,000 people, it's a tourist town that's just off Interstate 25, runs between El Paso and Albuquerque, which means it's a prime stopping point for train transients and people who were looking to be left alone by the rest of the world. As far as where David could find victims, TRC is just 7 miles from Elephant Butte. And David Parker Ray's local bar was, as my friend told it, just a quarter mile away from David's double wide and his toy box. Now, the town of Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, sounds like it's got a fascinatingly cool story steeped in the lore of the American west, where poetry seems to naturally spring from the ugliest corners of humanity's needs, desires.

[Marcus Parks]

You're wrong.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Something like from Deadwood, you know, like, where it's just like, it's beautiful. It's like it's got such poetry to it. But I was crestfallen to discover that the story behind the name of Truth or Consequences, New Mexico was little more than a publicity stunt for a stupid game show that ran on NBC in the 40s and 50s. Prior to 1950, Truth or Consequences, New Mexico was named Palomas Hot Springs because the town's main draw was the mineral heavy waters that thousands of elderly Southwesters would use for a soak to ease their arthritis. But in order to bring their tourism numbers up even more, the town of Palomas Hot Springs decided to enter a contest when a game show called Truth or Consequences announced that they would host a live gala anniversary broadcast from any town that permanently renamed itself after the show. And so the town renamed itself. They did the stupid anniversary special there. And that's the dumb story of the coolest town name in America.

[Ed Larson]

So are there any other Truth or Consequences?

[Henry Zabrowski]

Nope.

[Marcus Parks]

No, the only one, the only one was canceled.

[Henry Zabrowski]

They won the contest. It was long running, though. But the one thing that is kind of appropriate here is that the catchphrase for the Truth or Consequences game show was, no shit. Aren't we devils? Ooh.

[Ed Larson]

I mean, that sounds like is what it seems like it was. Good show.

[Marcus Parks]

No, actually, you just run sort of a game show. I'm a serial Killer and rapist. So when you say all this devil stuff you. You made.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You made someone sit on a pie that is different from what the devil does.

[Marcus Parks]

It's devilish. Don't get me wrong, it's devilish.

[Ed Larson]

Dog ish.

[Marcus Parks]

Actually did give me some ideas, but I want my pie to be filled with knives, you know what I'm saying?

[Henry Zabrowski]

The idea of the show was that they had trivia questions which were like, purposefully impossible to answer. And people would have to try to answer the trivia question within like two seconds. And if they didn't, they were asked, so truth or consequence? You know, so it's truth or dare?

[Marcus Parks]

Truth or dare.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. And then people would always choose the dare because it was, you know, and it would always be something fun or goofy. And then they'd say, aren't we devils?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. Cuz I think when you say truth, they go stuff like, where did your father serve in the war?

[Ed Larson]

You know, like, isn't it crazy? We'd rather, like, cover ourselves in pudding than tell the truth.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Now, even though there are plenty of tourists who come to Truth or Consequences for the hot springs, the town still has somewhat of a Wild west vibe. And it's definitely still had a wild west vibe. Back in the early to mid-90s, like a lot of small New Mexico towns, Truth or Consequences fell prey to the scourge of meth. And the local sheriff spent a lot of time focused on that.

[Ed Larson]

Rightfully so.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, no, it does add a. An area like a. A bit of a unpredictable predictability to the town.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Let's say the town's a bit of a handful.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. For local law enforcement going on in there. Right? Yeah. And the meth seemed to really give these guys a lot of pep, a lot of energy.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, the town had kind of a culture of no questions asked. And before long, it became an open secret that David Parker Ray out at Elephant Butte was hosting wild sex parties for the more sexually adventurous citizens of Truth or Consequences.

[Marcus Parks]

And it's never who you want him to be.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, of course not. In fact, it was rumored that some of the more well connected businessmen and Truth or Consequences would pay David to attend live S and M performances that were held on David's boat out on the waters of Elephant Butte Lake.

[Marcus Parks]

I'd like to introduce you to some special VIP guests of mine. I have here Richard Trapper. He's obviously the jerky billionaire. And right here I'd like you to meet. His name is John Pool Stick. He. He makes pool sticks for A living.

[Ed Larson]

It's like Eyes Wide Shut, but the eyes are shut because of jaundice.

[Marcus Parks]

You're gonna want to close your eyes because these eyes are going to get squirted in.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, regardless of where the local businessman front of the cash. Though, these on the water performances were still videotaped by David Parker Ray and were sold to his large network of mail order custom customers. Now, David's fourth marriage had ended by 1994.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm just a romantic.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And he subsequently gave up on Dave's automotive service. Instead, Dave made his money by working as a vehicle mechanic at Elephant Butte State Park. Technically, David Parker Ray was a park ranger, which meant that he had even more opportunity to hide bodies. Interestingly, though, in the course of his work with the parks department. And this is just a. This is like a fun fact. Ray designed a portable light unit that was so useful and cost effective that to this day, New Mexico state parks still use the equipment based on David Parker Ray's original designs when they have to go out for nighttime emergencies. Fun fact.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, that is a fun fact.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, you know, if you like my. My new flashlight so much, you should check out this other thing. It's dildo on a drill. And he just goes, that's me making the noise. I don't got it with me. Goes. And it makes the girl go.

[Ed Larson]

You know what I'm saying? You know, the 90s were time for wacky inventors between, like, flubber.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, flubber.

[Ed Larson]

You know, how I shrunk the kids.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, oh, God. And I'll just tell you what, if I find that bear that's been stealing my picnic baskets, I am going to tie him to a gynecological chair and I'm going to insert ever enlarging it dildos into his cloaca until he screams. And then I'm going to shoot him in the head. Mexecution style. That's what we call it down here in the mix.

[Henry Zabrowski]

After David's fourth wife left, his daughter Jesse began spending more time out at Elephant Butte. Reportedly, Jesse would roll into town on her Honda motorcycle decked out in leather. And she became known as, and this was the word that was used, a legendary pool player. And the bars of truth are consequences, New Mexico.

[Marcus Parks]

Is she the number one lesbian besides Ellen Degener? Because I feel like that puts you at the very peak of this. She's coming in. She's not even using her legs to hold onto the. Onto the motorcycle. It's just her lips just sucking onto the sea. That's Amazing. For her.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. The best pool player. And the bars of Truth or Consequences, New Mexico.

[Marcus Parks]

My daddy taught me a trick. Let me show you my custom made cue. It's right in here.

[Ed Larson]

It was when she stabbed the corner hole with the fuel cue.

[Marcus Parks]

Like this, Daddy. Like this, Daddy.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But even though Jesse had ratted out her father to the FBI eight years earlier, Jesse and David were closer than ever. Although David absolutely manipulated his daughter into spending more time at Elephant Butte. See, Jesse was living in Albuquerque, but anytime she tried returning home from a visit to Elephant Butte, her father would become mysteriously ill. And the only person who could nurse him back to health was Jesse. Oh. Jesse, however, would develop up bleeding ulcers whenever she went to Elephant Butte. Even once had to be airlifted out to treat them. That tells you a little something about how she felt while she was there. It was obviously a very stressful situation. But even though Jessie was a victim herself up to a point, which does deserve some sympathy, she's still just like all the other serial killers we've covered with abusive backgrounds who take a turn into murder and never look back. For example, In September of 1990, 1995, Jesse Ray was seen arguing with a young woman named Jill Troia in an Albuquerque bar. The fight was so intense that it attracted the attention of every patron Jill and Jesse left together. But that was the last time anyone saw Jill Troia alive. Well, that's not proof that Jesse killed her. But considering everything we're about to get into, it is entirely possible that Jesse Ray may have a body count all three her own, that had absolutely nothing to do with her father having some sort of magical hold over her. Now, David Parker Ray finally persuaded his daughter Jesse to come live with him in his double wide at Elephant Butte at some point in the mid-90s. And while it's certain that David Parkeray was bringing women to his toy box before then, we also know that Jesse began assisting her father after she moved in on a regular basis. Now, there are holes in the story behind Jesse's involvement in David's crimes. And it's not holes as in, you know, but like there's things that might refute it. It's just stuff we just don't know about. Yes, but much of what we do know about David Parker's MO comes from a victim that Jesse definitely served up to her father, one of Jesse's actual friends. That friend was one of the women who lived to tell the tale. And from what it sounds like, she was far from being the first woman who ended up in the toy box because of the actions of Jesse. This friend was a woman in her early 20s named Kelly Garrett, who'd run off to Truth or Consequences with a married man a few years earlier.

[Marcus Parks]

Consequences.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Kelly had been babysitting this guy's kids in Kansas, and after they'd started an affair, he'd convinced her that they should start a new life together in New Mexico. This married man, however, abandoned Kelly soon after they arrived in T or C. Kelly, however, found solace in the friends she'd made made there. But that friend group included Jesse Ray. Kelly ended up in David Parker Ray's toy box on July 25, 1995. But the circumstances that led her there had been put into motion. Nine days earlier, on July 16, Kelly had married a Marine named Patrick. It was her third marriage, but after having a spat with her new husband on the 25th, Kelly had decided to join her friends at a bar and Truth or Consequences to blow off some steam. Now, Kelly had actually been the designated driver that night, but when she finally had just one beer at midnight, she immediately felt woozy and intoxicated. Unbeknownst to Kelly, Jessie Ray had spiked her drink, meaning that Jesse had decided to bring Kelly to the toy box without any prompting from her father. This is 1995. It's not like she texted him, hey, you want me to bring a girl? Girl? She just did it all on her own.

[Marcus Parks]

She just kind of said that this guy. This is somebody that my father would really like.

[Ed Larson]

Yes, she could have beeped him.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I guess she could have beeped. He didn't have a beeper as far as I know. I guess she could have beeped him.

[Marcus Parks]

She could have beeped him.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But what do you beep?

[Marcus Parks]

What do you beep? I say you beep, girl.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Question mark.

[Ed Larson]

I lost all my codes. I used to have a sheet of beeper codes. I can't remember them all now.

[Marcus Parks]

Boobs.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably like a 187.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I forgot you were a drug dealer.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Now, to this day, Kelly doesn't remember leaving the bar with Jesse after Jesse offered to take her to her father's trailer to sober up. The first clear memory Kelly had was sitting on David's couch where Jesse had told her to wait while Jesse went to the back room. Ten minutes later, both Jesse and David Parker Ray came out and sat on either side of Kelly on the couch without saying a single word. Suddenly, one of them had a knife to Kelly's throat while the other handcuffed her. A spike collar was then placed her neck and duct tape was wrapped around her eyes and mouth. David then led Kelly out to the toy box where she said she was so terrified that she lost consciousness. When she came to, she found herself on the gynecological table with her ankles and wrists in straps. Those straps were attached to heavy chains. David Parker Ray then used smelling salts to fully bring Kelly back to consciousness because David wanted her to be fully aware when she realized just how much trouble she was in. And he wanted to drink in as much fear and as much pain as possible. Once David was satisfied that Kelly was awake enough to process what was happening, he walked over to a stereo and pressed play on an audio cassette he'd recorded himself a message that he played for every woman upon entering the toy box. In part, it said, low there. Are you coming? Comfortable now? I doubt it. Wrists and ankles chained, gagged, probably blindfolded. You're disoriented and scared too, I'd imagine. Perfectly normal under the circumstances. For a little while at least. You need to get your shit together and listen to this tape. It is very relevant to your situation. I'm going to tell you in detail why you have been kidnapped, what's going happen to to happen to you, and how long you'll be here. I don't know the details of your capture because this tape is being created July 23, 1993, as a general advisory tape for future female captives. The information I'm going to give you is based on my experience dealing with captives over a period of several years. If at a future date there are any major changes in our procedures, the tape will be upgraded, graded, and that's.

[Marcus Parks]

Why I drive an Infinity Last podcast in the left, brought to you by Infinity.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, I very much do not need to read you the entire message because honestly, it gets a little tedious.

[Marcus Parks]

The whole thing's five minutes long.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, but isn't it 50?

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, it's five minutes.

[Ed Larson]

Then what the did I listen to?

[Henry Zabrowski]

I don't know. It's five minutes long.

[Marcus Parks]

Five minutes long.

[Ed Larson]

I thing I listened to was like it was 50 and it was. And I got a half hour in and I was just like, this is repetitive.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I have no idea.

[Marcus Parks]

Watch.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I have no idea what you listen because it was. It's five. It's like a little over five minutes long.

[Ed Larson]

So the person that I saw definitely got very creative.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow. He expanded it.

[Ed Larson]

I. I guess I'll have to send you what I saw.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Cuz I'd love to know, does he go into like, is there a rap? Is there Like a. Does he get full on like into sound?

[Ed Larson]

It's just very. It's for 30 for when I got 30 minutes in, like it was 50 minutes long and there were multiple tapes that had different versions of it and some of them were 48 minutes and other was for 50 and so everyone I saw was very long.

[Marcus Parks]

Is this director's cut? Did you talk to Zack Snider? Is that what this is about? Who made this cut? Is this it?

[Henry Zabrowski]

As far as I know it's. It was just a little over five minutes long.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I listen to it this morning and when I woke up, went to sleep last night and the other day when I was driving, I listened to it a couple times just because again it's like it's in my liked.

[Ed Larson]

And this is why people should not do their own research.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zabrowski]

The same thing that led you to listen to 35 minutes of a man just rambling about torturing a woman is the same method that leads people to not believe in vaccines.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean it's one and the same.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

He's not, he's not even going to get. He's not going to get the vaccine anymore.

[Ed Larson]

Oh no. It's definitely ruined my algorithm on YouTube.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, the highlights of the tape are thus. David Parkeray goes on in the tape to explain that he and his lady friend have been keeping sex slaves for years now. Obviously that lady friend was his daughter Jesse because he did have another female accomplice. But that woman did not come along until years later, years after David Parker Ray first made the tape. And his fourth wife Joni Lee was not involved in the this. So the lady friend is Jesse. Going off of what David said on the tape. The two of them use Jesse's sexual orientation to find victims. David explained that they preferred lesbians because there was less of a chance for an std. Not surprisingly, David didn't like condoms. David goes on and on in this tape for as I said, over five minutes detailing the specs of the torture dungeon, the extent of the torture the woman was about to go through, how long it was going to last. See, as far as the women listening to this tape knew, they were about to go through at least a three month ordeal. But David ended the tape saying that the woman would leave alive drugged on sodium pentalol and phenobarbital and would therefore not remember him, the toy box or what had happened to her while she was locked inside.

[Ed Larson]

Tootsie would have been a horrible victim because she's so much pheno barbital she would have been able to remember everything.

[Marcus Parks]

She's fine. She seems to be fine. She's eating fine. No, it's.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And he did keep that promise. I mean, well, multiple times. But we do know he did keep the promise sometimes from the survivors, the women who now today talk about it.

[Marcus Parks]

I think he decided. He would decide in the moment who does what. And then that also serves as a way of. Very similar to Dennis Raider, when he would break in and say, I'm not gonna kill you.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm not here to kill you. I'm just here to rape you. I'm just. Same thing with the east area Rapist. He was like, I'm just here so that they would do that to sort of calm. Calm you.

[Ed Larson]

To know that you would get out of there at some point.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. Now, the line about the condom, you know, that he doesn't like, that's somewhat unnecessary because David Parker Ray was as impotent as they come. A real limp dick. In fact, I. I actually asked Ed to come up with a couple of more words for limp dick.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah. And it was a nice little task to give me to keep my mind off of this.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Ed Larson]

So I feel like here's some other ways that I've never worked before.

[Marcus Parks]

Make sure you don't make fun of. Of people with erectile dysfunction too hard because they will blow up the studio.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I absolutely will kill you indiscriminately.

[Ed Larson]

I hate when people call erectile dysfunction Ed because it just spells my name, but.

[Marcus Parks]

And thankfully it's what he gives me.

[Ed Larson]

So here's some other things if you want to call someone limp dick. Maybe try one of these instead. Pudding pants.

[Marcus Parks]

My father was more of a pudding pants.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I like pudding pants.

[Ed Larson]

Pancake batter. Genitals. Hey, well, or. Or alt for that is pan.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's flat.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah. Soggy logged.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Honestly, soggy log is so much better than whiskey dick. Yeah, definitely. I will absolutely say, sorry, honey, I'm soggy logged right now. I can't do it.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Because the great thing about that is that when you say you're soggy logged, she's not in the mood mood anymore either.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, she's not.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And you've also hopefully made her laugh, but also made her not horny at the same time.

[Ed Larson]

Sorry, baby. A little soggy log tonight.

[Marcus Parks]

Disengaged wet cement. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

The mushy member.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay.

[Ed Larson]

Puddle penis. A little floppy in the jorts, if you know what I'm saying.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, now. Hey.

[Henry Zabrowski]

That's perfect for elephant View. There's a lot of jorts in know.

[Marcus Parks]

I know. Hey, you leave me alone, all right? I'm already angry. I'm already upset.

[Ed Larson]

You already hear. You've ever heard of quicksand? His jeans are filled with dick sand. All right, thank you, everybody.

[Marcus Parks]

Hey, leave me alone. Hey, leave me alone. It will not work. It's a blood pressure issue.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Thank you, Ed. I appreciate.

[Marcus Parks]

I'm afraid of me. That's what this is, a psychological I'm afraid of me. I'm afraid of my changes as a man.

[Ed Larson]

And the best way to say you've gone flaccid is you've gone full day.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Parker raid. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow. Yes, but it's unfair.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But since David Parker Ray couldn't maintain an erection, he had, as I mentioned earlier, a disturbingly large collection of dildos that he would use to rape the women he abducted, which is what he did with Kelly. During all this time that Kelly was in the toy box, her husband had concluded that she'd simply run off with another man. This had been Kelly's third marriage before the age of 30, and since she'd run off with men before wasn't the worst guess. Even so, Kelly's husband still filed a police report when she was gone for 24 hours. But the cops did to say, like, you know what? She probably just ran off. So when she was gone for 48, he bought a do it yourself divorce kit and began filling out the paperwork. But little did he know that Kelly was going to reappear the next day. See, three days after abducting Kelly, David Parkeray released her at 8am on a Sunday morning morning after giving her a heavy cocktail of psychoactive drugs and stealing her wedding ring as a souvenir. That wedding ring was later recovered. The first thing Kelly remembered when she came to was being at a local gas station with David Parker Ray. She was dressed back in the same clothes that she had been wearing when she was first abducted. David was wearing his park ranger uniform. And he very calmly told her that he just found her wandering the beach in an incoherent here in state. And he was there to take care of her and take her home. And the thing is, that cocktail worked. She did not remember what had happened the last three days at all. David then drove Kelly to her husband's house himself, where her husband was shocked by her appearance. Even though Kelly was known for being compulsively clean. She was barefoot, she smelled, she was dirty. It was off. She had been in a tractor trailer for three days.

[Ed Larson]

Can I ask about the drugs real quick. So the drugs, they make you forget everything that happened to you. Is she on drugs the entire time?

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, no, no.

[Marcus Parks]

It's up and down, up and down, conscious, out. It's what happened during MK Ultra. It's sleep deprivation, knocking out with barbiturates, waking you up, putting you back to sleep. And then like with the. It's just fucks with your memory.

[Ed Larson]

You almost think it's a dream.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yes. All she knows is that something fucking awful happened, happening, happened to her, but she doesn't know what it was. And I think that's part of what makes David Parker Ray so evil, so truly evil, is because it's like. It's almost like what David Parker Ray wanted to create was like a living corpse. Like he wanted to create someone who was alive but dead. Like somebody who he had. He tried to destroy people so thoroughly, but he loved torture so much that he wanted them to be too tortured for the rest of their days.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You know, it just, it, it's what got him hard. It went so like his pathology went so incredibly deep, you know, and there were a lot of these when they recovered from it, you know, like it was very difficult, extraordinarily difficult, but they recovered from it. So he did not win. But the impetus behind it is pure evil.

[Marcus Parks]

He got away with it for a long time though.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah. But even though something awful had obviously happened to Kelly, her husband had already made up his mind. He believed that Kelly and Jesse Ray were trying to somehow scam her. And he didn't believe her when she said that she didn't remember anything about the previous three days. David Parker Ray, meanwhile, stayed close by, listening to the entire conversation. And when her husband finally kicked Kelly out, David gave her a ride to a nearby restaurant so a friend could look at after her. The husband annulled the marriage soon after. And it took five years of nightmares and half remembered fragments until Kelly was finally able to piece together just what had happened after she left the bar with Jesse Ray that night. Now that's obviously a harrowing story on several levels, but that's just how things went down when only Jesse and David were involved. We're about to introduce a whole new cast of characters who became heavily involved in David's twisted world. And it's with those accomplices that we'll return to our story next week.

[Marcus Parks]

That that was what we didn't really cover when we fully, when we first obviously stumbled upon this topic over a decade ago. Yeah, it was because of that tape we'd seen the tape and we were all fascinated with the tape and we kind of listened to it. We. We did our light version of research. And one of the first times we did any form of research.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I almost like this. The first time we did this, it was the first time I ever wrote anything down. Like before, like, while checking out beforehand. Like, I remember like, actually like. Like watching an A and E documentary and like jotting down some notes like, oh, I should remember that.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, I should probably get some of this correct.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I should probably. Yeah, I should probably get some of this correct.

[Marcus Parks]

But next week we're going to show that it was a whole operation that was like one of the.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, I mean, I think operation is the wrong word.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's not a formal at all. It's just weird how many people.

[Ed Larson]

It's a business.

[Henry Zabrowski]

No, it's not even a business club. It's a club. Like David Parker is the only one that's making any money off of it. Yeah, like, he's basically David Parker. Ray is. You know, it's. He's monetizing his hobby.

[Marcus Parks]

He is.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You know, if you put in the.

[Marcus Parks]

That just make breaks my heart is here just somebody. Even in the 90s, we had to monetize our hobbies.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Un believable.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But in this.

[Ed Larson]

Thank God Patreon wasn't around back then.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, my God, David Parker. Ray would have went ham with Kickstarter.

[Henry Zabrowski]

But in the starkest sense, like, that's really what it was. And I think it is important to make sure that we don't call it an organization, we don't call it a business, because, like, it's shit like. Like this where like myths like Qanon and all that start to spring out, you know, because you can make the jump so quickly to, you know, there's, you know, a whole cabal behind this. There's a whole network behind this. When really it's just messy. It's just human. It's just the way these things happen.

[Ed Larson]

If there was a network, you would have got caught a longer, long time earlier.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, well, no one writes anything down and that's what you got to do. Next week we're going to get into the same funny conversation that we're having right now. We're going to have. We're going to bring the same levity to this topic as we are.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Well, there's going to be some goofy New Mexico fellas.

[Marcus Parks]

That's what I like to hear.

[Henry Zabrowski]

A man named Roy.

[Marcus Parks]

I love a guy named everyone.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Loves a Roy.

[Marcus Parks]

Except for this Roy. He's actually quite bad.

[Henry Zabrowski]

This Roy is actually quite awful.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Larson]

Do you think he just got him because his name rhymed with toy?

[Marcus Parks]

Cute.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And also kind of like Ray. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, wow.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Ray Roy. Patreon.com Last podcast on the left. If you want to see a video for how much that joke makes. Made me smile, you could also.

[Marcus Parks]

I had some good ones today. Gotta stay in. Yeah, we had some good ones today.

[Ed Larson]

This guy. You had some good ones. That gotta come out too.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, that's how it works. Those are the better ones.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And if you. And also if you're a Patreon member, you can watch us every week at Tuesday at 6:00pm PST. Uh, last stream on the left. You can, uh, check it out and interact with us live on the chat. Follow us on all the socials at LP on the left. That's tick tock and Instagram. And don't forget to come see us on Talk Y.

[Ed Larson]

That's right. I think next week we're going to be in Utah at the Salt Lake City Sandy Amphitheater. That's going to be July 12th. And Henry and I are at Wise Guys the night before doing a side story show at 9:30pm so check that out. And then August 8th, Charlotte, North Carolina. August 9th, Durham, North Carolina. September 12th, 20th, St. Paul, Minnesota. October 11th, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. October 25th, Oakland, California. November 29th, Cleveland, Ohio. December 12th and 13th, we're in Portland. Come and see us. Two nights in one city. I'm excited for that.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yeah, we've done that before. Revolution Hall. It's so much fun to do.

[Ed Larson]

I love Portland.

[Marcus Parks]

Cannot wait to be there and go check out all our new YouTube channels. LP@LPNTV. Someplace underneath. LPN, ROMantasy, the Foreign Report. No Dog in Space and you and who's the Bee, which is doing their pitch a thon right now that I'm going to go do right after this.

[Henry Zabrowski]

You go have fun.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, I will. The male perspective.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And that's what they need. And doesn't everyone need it?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Yes. Hail Satan, everybody.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Helg.

[Marcus Parks]

You know, Eddie, it could be way worse.

[Henry Zabrowski]

I made you a country playlist earlier today. What was one that one song, one country artist that you really love.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, you know, actually I really did enjoy. I took his name down. Marty Robbins.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, wow.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Marty and you know Marty Robbins out in the West Texas town of El Paso.

[Ed Larson]

Oh, there we go.

[Henry Zabrowski]

So hail.

[Ed Larson]

You know what? You know who I'm going to hail? I'm going to I'm going to hail Harley. My. I officially adopted my foster dog.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Hey, that's wonderful.

[Ed Larson]

That's right. And she.

[Marcus Parks]

You know what she has?

[Ed Larson]

She's got a toy box, but it's.

[Marcus Parks]

Filled with doggy toys.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Y.

[Marcus Parks]

But. Yeah, but it depends on. There were some doggy toys in the toy box.

[Henry Zabrowski]

And back to Marty Robbins. My little dog. My foster dog that turned into an adopted dog. You know what? She's got a big iron on her hip.

[Marcus Parks]

That's so funny.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Because of the accident.

[Ed Larson]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm just sad from what we just talked about.

[Marcus Parks]

Not me. See you next week. I can't wait. Great gifts for dad. We've got em and they're up to 60% off at Nordstrom Rack stores now.

[Ed Larson]

How did I not know Rack has Adidas?

[Henry Zabrowski]

They've got the best gifts.

[Marcus Parks]

Gotta show dad some love. Snag amazing deals on Father's Day. Gifts from Cole Hahn, Calvin Klein, Vince and more. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Summer heat got you melting.

[Marcus Parks]

Time to feel joyfully chill with my mochi ice cream.

[Henry Zabrowski]

My mochi is little scoops of cool, creamy ice cream wrapped in soft, chewy dough. It comes in tons of amazing flavors like strawberry, mango and cookies and cream. Gluten free and just 70 calories a piece.

[Marcus Parks]

Mymoji's the perfect snack for pool days, sunsets, and just soaking up the backyard vibes.

[Henry Zabrowski]

When the heat's on, grab a purple.

[Marcus Parks]

Box of Mymoji ice cream and treat.

[Henry Zabrowski]

Yourself to a moment of joy.