Marcus Parks (1:51)

You know who else you know could have used weed?

Henry Zebrowski (1:53)

Who?

Marcus Parks (1:53)

Ronald Gene Simmons.

Marcus Parks (1:57)

This?

Ben Kissel (1:58)

No, he hated. We feeling goofies for queers.

Marcus Parks (2:06)

Ronald Jean Simmons, I'm going to say, is up there with one of the bigger pricks we've ever covered it.

Henry Zebrowski (2:13)

I would say that is easily the truth. I mean, when we talk about difficult men because we've been on the stream a lot. We've been showing a lot of videos of difficult men. I've been obsessed with difficult men.

Marcus Parks (2:24)

I love difficult men. From afar, obviously. Same thing from a sovereign citizen. You know, you'd say a fan.

Ed Larson (2:31)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (2:32)

You're.

Henry Zebrowski (2:32)

You're interested in difficult men.

Marcus Parks (2:34)

I love difficult men.

Henry Zebrowski (2:35)

Yes. Welcome to last podcast on the left. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with the difficult man, Henry Zabrowski.

Marcus Parks (2:41)

My goal is to Be the easiest of difficult men.

Henry Zebrowski (2:45)

Sure.

Marcus Parks (2:45)

In order to create a sort of bridge to the rest of the world. To difficult men. In order to then apply dynamite to that bridge and kill us all involved.

Ed Larson (2:57)

It is the bridge over the river Kauai. Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (3:01)

And we're also joined, of course, with probably the easiest man around, the easiest man in podcasting, Ed Larson.

Ed Larson (3:07)

That's right. I'm filthy easy.

Ben Kissel (3:10)

You're very easy.

Ed Larson (3:11)

Yeah, you're very easy sitting on a dick right now.

Ben Kissel (3:16)

Which also underneath you.

Ed Larson (3:19)

Ronald could have used.

Henry Zebrowski (3:22)

This guy, man.

Ed Larson (3:23)

No redeemable quality.

Marcus Parks (3:25)

Not a single one.

Ed Larson (3:26)

Even Himmler wanted to be a farmer.

Henry Zebrowski (3:33)

Yes, we are here to talk about Ronald Gene Simmons. And this is in honor of the Christmas season.

Marcus Parks (3:41)

Yeah, it is.

Henry Zebrowski (3:42)

Yeah. We're gonna be kicking off the month of December with the story of a family annihilator. This man is not just number one when it comes to the holiday mass murder body count. And there's a lot of competition in that arena.

Ben Kissel (3:54)

That's a big deal.

Henry Zebrowski (3:55)

But this gu also has the highest body count of any familia side in American history.

Marcus Parks (4:02)

Wow.

Henry Zebrowski (4:03)

This utter piece of shit's name was Ronald Jean Simmons. No relation to the Kiss front man.

Ed Larson (4:09)

Also a piece of.

Ben Kissel (4:10)

Yeah, I don't want to.

Ed Larson (4:12)

I don't want him to get off too easy.

Henry Zebrowski (4:14)

No, of course. Now Jean Simmons is a massive piece of.

Marcus Parks (4:16)

Yeah, he was like. He like the Henry Ford of rock and roll. Yeah.

Ed Larson (4:20)

He was like. He tried to be so fun, but it just made him unfun.

Marcus Parks (4:24)

Well, that was the thing. Then he tried to sell the fun.

Henry Zebrowski (4:26)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (4:26)

And then his hair got solid.

Henry Zebrowski (4:28)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (4:30)

Look at that waterfall.

Marcus Parks (4:31)

That wonderful, solid Jewish waterfall.

Henry Zebrowski (4:34)

Oh, God, his hair is just like a gigantic brillo pad.

Marcus Parks (4:38)

And a tongue like a goddamn serpent.

Ed Larson (4:41)

If Dee Snider could have had his talent or the other way around, we'd be. It would be so much better.

Henry Zebrowski (4:48)

So over a period of just one week during.

Marcus Parks (4:50)

I do want to come back to his De Snider thing. We'll come back to it later.

Henry Zebrowski (4:52)

We can come back to the D. Snider thing. Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (4:56)

So over a period of just one week during the Christmas of 1987, a 20 year military veteran turned mini mart cashier named Ronald Gene Simmons murdered 14 members of his own family in two separate mass events at his home outside the small Arkansas town of Ward. Among the victims were his wife, his own adult children, and his young grandchildren, including a child grandchild that had been born of an incestuous relationship with his own daughter.

Ben Kissel (5:25)

That's just called having A daughter squared.

Henry Zebrowski (5:30)

This had all come after his family had started to pull away from him, because life wasn't good in the Simmons household even before Ronald killed them all.

Marcus Parks (5:39)

That was, actually killing them was kind of the easiest part of their lives.

Henry Zebrowski (5:43)

The massive body count, however, still wasn't enough to quell the rage within Ronald Jean Simmons. That Christmas, after murdering almost every member of his immediate family, either just before or just after Christmas Day, it was the 22nd and the 26th, I believe.

Marcus Parks (5:57)

He took a break.

Henry Zebrowski (5:58)

Yeah, Ronnie Jean, as I like to call him, because I know he would fucking hate being called Ronnie Jean. He embarked upon a further shooting spree on December 28 at multiple locations throughout his small Arkansas town.

Ben Kissel (6:09)

Don't call me Ronnie Jean. That's what you call a horrid Hooters.

Marcus Parks (6:15)

Oh, Ronnie Jean Dio.

Henry Zebrowski (6:16)

It's like another one, except Ronnie James Dio. That's a solid one.

Marcus Parks (6:21)

Anybody says one single negative word about Dio.

Marcus Parks (6:28)

I'll flip out. Oh, yeah, get me difficult.

Henry Zebrowski (6:30)

And I got Ronnie Jean from our head researcher, Joel. He turned me on to Ronnie Jean, and I love Ronnie Jean. This spree, the one that was after his family massacre that killed two and it injured four, and it focused on Ronnie Jean's personal enemies. Women who had rejected his advances, co workers who had wronged him, or local businessmen who had made deals that had negatively impacted Ronnie Jean's private world. Now, that's all to say that the most important thing in Ronald Gene Simmons life was that he have total and complete control over his own petty and pathetic private world. But when his life fell apart and he began losing his grip, the guns took control for him, like a true American hero.

Marcus Parks (7:14)

Obviously, you guys have heard me over the years talk about having a singular stroke of revenge against anybody who's ever wronged me. And y' all know that it does sound really fun, right?

Henry Zebrowski (7:28)

I mean, in theory. I mean, it's a nice fantasy.

Marcus Parks (7:30)

Like, the fantasy of it is so sweet.

Henry Zebrowski (7:33)

Let's call it an exercise.

Marcus Parks (7:34)

Yes, an immersion exercise, like I have to do in therapy. I have to go sit in a closet and breathe through a straw this week.

Henry Zebrowski (7:40)

Nice.

Ed Larson (7:41)

Really?

Marcus Parks (7:42)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (7:42)

To control me.

Ed Larson (7:43)

To control you?

Marcus Parks (7:44)

Yeah, to settle me down.

Ed Larson (7:45)

They're putting your therapist put you in the closet.

Marcus Parks (7:47)

I have to go in a closet.

Ben Kissel (7:50)

And breathe through a straw.

Marcus Parks (7:51)

This is completely true. In order to approximate anxiety breathing. In order to get used to it. Right. Kind of like how guys get used to zero G. Oh, okay.

Ed Larson (8:00)

So is this for anger or anxiety?

Ben Kissel (8:02)

All of it.

Henry Zebrowski (8:03)

Right.

Ben Kissel (8:03)

Apparently, it's all one.

Ed Larson (8:04)

Does it work? Because I'm getting really angry.

Ben Kissel (8:07)

I'll show you later. I'll show you. Come with me in the closet and.

Ed Larson (8:11)

Pull out your straw.

Ben Kissel (8:13)

We just go back and forth like.

Marcus Parks (8:14)

Sucking and blowing our own air back and forth. But this guy had he, I, I, I understand almost like it's, it's very American feeling. Almost sure in a way of like.

Ben Kissel (8:25)

I'm going to destroy my own world because I can.

Henry Zebrowski (8:28)

Yeah, because it is, well, because it's out of his control. It's, you know, once that world that they build because it's very, it's very much an entitlement thing. Like he, Ronnie, Ronnie Jean Simmons is nothing if not entitled because he felt like he was owed everything, you know, and what he was not given, he tried to take and tried to control. And when people started pushing back on that, you know, it was a slow burn, of course. But once he fe felt like it was completely out of his hands, he decided if, no, if, I can't have it, nobody can.

Marcus Parks (9:00)

He makes John List charming.

Henry Zebrowski (9:02)

He does. And, but he is also like, he's somewhat close to John List because, you know, he, he did not commit suicide afterwards like that. A lot of family annihilators, at the end of it, they take themselves out.

Ed Larson (9:15)

He just screamed yes. Over and over.

Ben Kissel (9:16)

He was like, kill you. Another one down. Yeah, yeah. Grandkids explode so easy.

Henry Zebrowski (9:23)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (9:24)

Excellent work, Ronnie Jean.

Henry Zebrowski (9:28)

It's not like Ronald Jean Simmons was a super popular guy outside of his family. As one author put it, he was sneered at by his siblings, despised by his family, shunned by his co workers and ignored by the outside world. The rest of the world disliked Ronnie Jean because he was annoyingly oriented to detail in addition to being mean spirited and sarcastic. But Simmons was not cleverly sarcastic. He was just an asshol like putting other people down to make himself feel better. Put into a modern context, Ronald Gene Simmons shares personality traits with a certain type of man who used to just be a problem for other people every once in a while out in the real world, but now we have to deal with this type of guy all the time thanks to the Internet. Put into a modern context, Ronald Jean Simmons shares personality traits with a certain type of man who used to just be a problem for other people every once in a while out in the real world, but now has to be dealt with or all the fucking time thanks to the Internet. If we're talking social media archetypes, Simmons is like the aggressively pedantic, know it all, middle aged white man who spends all his time telling other people how to live their lives. He's the type who uses a selfie sitting in the front seat of his truck wearing Oakley's as his profile pic. And his constant barrage of negative, abusive bullshit only gets silenced after he inevitably gets exposed as a sex criminal.

Ben Kissel (10:48)

It's just because the age of consent's getting lowered behind our backs.

Marcus Parks (10:54)

He's this.

Henry Zebrowski (10:56)

But we know this, this type of guy. Like you've seen the, like, just imagine the guy who's an to you on the Internet who has that unsmiling selfie as his profile pic that's telling you how you should be living your life. How you're doing everything wrong and how he knows better.

Ed Larson (11:10)

It's very annoying. They're very lonely every time.

Marcus Parks (11:13)

Yes. It's the guys that troll like young pictures of young actresses and talk about them on the Internet, like, like they know them in a way. Like both hypersexual and then hyper friendly and then hyper aggressive.

Henry Zebrowski (11:26)

Yeah. But it doesn't. It's not just limited to that. Like he's the type of guy who's going to tell you that, you know, you're ch. You're not taking care of your car. Right. And he's going to give you six reasons why you're not taking care of your car.

Marcus Parks (11:37)

Right. But he's the guy that we love. That's again why we're covering him, because he's our favorite. He would never know how to properly use that cell phone.

Ben Kissel (11:44)

A lot of that footage is going to be him going abn thing about the government.

Marcus Parks (11:50)

Like it's going to be a lot of filler. So at least there's that. Yeah.

Ed Larson (11:54)

Do you think if the Internet kept him busy, he wouldn't have killed his family?

Henry Zebrowski (11:57)

I actually did ask myself that question.

Marcus Parks (11:59)

Unfortunately, it has not stopped anybody since.

Ed Larson (12:02)

I mean, we don't know that. It could have stopped lots of people.

Marcus Parks (12:05)

I actually feel like it's the opposite. I do think that the Internet widely accelerates family annihilation.

Henry Zebrowski (12:10)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (12:10)

It's really about loss of status.

Henry Zebrowski (12:13)

Yeah. It.

Marcus Parks (12:14)

Exactly like the Internet creates the world of status.

Henry Zebrowski (12:16)

Yeah. The rise. It is not a coincidence that mass shootings in America rapidly rose with the creation of the Internet. If you look at it, you know, it's a. It is a correlation and I. And honestly, I think it is a causation.

Marcus Parks (12:33)

I think it's going to be the lead poisoning of our generation.

Henry Zebrowski (12:36)

Easily. Yeah.

Ed Larson (12:36)

And most spree shooters are American, obviously. We have like Anders Breivik and the other fucker too. Who is the guy that.

Marcus Parks (12:44)

Martin Bryant.

Ed Larson (12:44)

Martin Bryant, you know, obviously. But they're very right wing too, so are mostly. Are most family annihilators American?

Henry Zebrowski (12:52)

Yes, we're good at it. Yeah, we're. I mean, I would not. I don't know about most, but I would say it happens here more than it happens anywhere. Yeah. Any sort of mass murder happens here. Again, anywhere else.

Ed Larson (13:03)

Really good.

Henry Zebrowski (13:04)

Yeah. Now for our sources. Today we use two classic, trashy true crime books from the 90s, written at a time when facts were loose and authors took liberties because no one was paying attention to true crime books sold in the supermarket. The first is Rampage by Jim Moore, which is pretty good. But the real gym here is Zero at the Bone by Bryce Marshall and Paul Williams.

Marcus Parks (13:26)

It's the good.

Henry Zebrowski (13:27)

Yeah, yeah.

Marcus Parks (13:27)

I missed your crime.

Henry Zebrowski (13:28)

Oh, yeah, no, and it's one of those classic true crime things where, like, it sounds super cool, like Zero at the Bone, but it's a reference to an Emily Dickinson poem about a snake. Oh, yeah.

Ben Kissel (13:39)

Well, now I hate it. Yeah, now I'm angry.

Marcus Parks (13:41)

Oh, it also says here there's a familial side in the United States of America every five days.

Ben Kissel (13:46)

Cool.

Marcus Parks (13:47)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (13:47)

And of course, Zero at the Bone is full of the kind of overly dramatic true crime turns of phrase that you come to expect from a mass market paperback. From your grave.

Ed Larson (13:57)

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Marcus Parks (15:31)

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Marcus Parks (16:35)

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Ben Kissel (17:05)

We're coming for you. All right.

Marcus Parks (17:07)

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Henry Zebrowski (18:35)

CMIT mobile.com and so, without further ado, let's get into the story of Ronald Gene Simmons and the Arkansas Christmas massacre of 1987. Now, Ronald Gene Simmons was born in Chicago as a sickly baby on June 15, 1940. Simmons, however, was not born into a broken home. His mother was a loving and educated, if somewhat high strung woman named Eva, while his father was described as a coarse, lantern jawed industrial inspector named William. Tragically, though, William Simmons dropped dead from coronary thrombosis when Ronnie Jean was just three years old.

Marcus Parks (19:11)

That's how dads should go.

Ben Kissel (19:13)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (19:14)

That's how dads died in the 40s.

Ben Kissel (19:16)

Drop dead on at work.

Henry Zebrowski (19:17)

Yeah. Ronald's mother soon moved to Moline, Illinois with Ronnie and her other two young children. But since being a widowed mother of three was tough, in 1943, Ronnie Jean's mother remarried the same year her first husband died and remarried a man with the same name.

Marcus Parks (19:35)

He said type.

Ed Larson (19:36)

Yeah, yeah, fix it.

Henry Zebrowski (19:37)

Yeah. Ronnie Jean's stepfather was named William Griffin. And Ronald, a contrarian even as a child, dismissively referred to his stepfather as dad Griffin instead of just dad.

Ben Kissel (19:48)

You ain't my dad. My dad had the guts to die. You're still alive like a dad Griffin.

Ed Larson (19:56)

That was his voice at four.

Henry Zebrowski (19:58)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (19:59)

Money.

Ben Kissel (20:03)

Baby needs lunch.

Ed Larson (20:07)

Looking a little old Mommy.

Henry Zebrowski (20:11)

Now, you might be expecting Ronald's stepfather to be some sort of monster, but he seemed to be just a regular fucking guy. In fact, Ronnie Jean's stepfather created a life for his stepsons that was almost too good. He created a spectacular childhood that Ronald would chase for the rest of his life.

Marcus Parks (20:28)

What Ronnie Jean does is very similar to even what we just saw. I mean, you know, not to go too deep into it, but this idea of a conservative mindset that builds a fantasy about a past that never existed.

Henry Zebrowski (20:39)

Yes.

Marcus Parks (20:40)

So he believes this. Truly, this man has this idea of this idyllic childhood when he was a little.

Ed Larson (20:47)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (20:48)

Throughout it. Entirely horrible.

Henry Zebrowski (20:50)

Yeah. But he still believes that. Yeah. This childhood, this small period of time is, is idyllic. Everything was perfect. And if only he can return to that, then everything's going to be okay.

Marcus Parks (20:58)

You mean Ronnie Jean, you're chat, you're, you're like changing his Diaper. And he's like, you're trying to molest me, pervert.

Ben Kissel (21:04)

You're trying to fuck with me, pervert.

Henry Zebrowski (21:06)

You are some kind of Democrat.

Ben Kissel (21:10)

Always trying to see my little pecker. I bet you are dead, Griffin.

Henry Zebrowski (21:13)

Well, you see, the thing is that after his mother gave birth to Ronald's half brother in 1945, a son named Peter Griffin, funnily enough, Ronald's stepfather got a job with the Army Corps of Engineers in Little Rock, Arkansas. So the family moved to a nearby small town in the Ozarks called Hector. The five years the family spent in the Ozarks were so idyllic in Ronald Gene Simmons memory that he would eventually become obsessed with trying to re buy the home where he lived from the ages of 5 and 10 to the point where his desire informed almost every move Ronnie Jean made for the rest of his life.

Ben Kissel (21:49)

Every time I see another dandelion from another part of the country, it just reminds me how the dandelions are outside of Hector, Arkansas.

Ed Larson (22:00)

You know, they say that people putting the wrong milkweed down is why we have less monarch butterflies.

Ben Kissel (22:06)

You dumb.

Ben Kissel (22:09)

I'm from Arkansas, where things are perfect.

Ed Larson (22:13)

Oh yes, perfect in Pirate, Kansas. Kansas.

Ben Kissel (22:16)

I hate your pirate jokes and your boat based humor. If I could, I turned into a man right now, but I'm just a furious little baby. You bring that little pecker over here.

Ed Larson (22:30)

All right, I'll bring you my little pecker.

Henry Zebrowski (22:32)

Whatever you say. Now, we have no idea exactly why Ronnie Jean had such fond memories of living in Arkansas for these five years. Because by familial accounts, Ronald had been a miserable little from the day he was born, almost as if it was genetic. Ronnie Jean was the middle child, and when his younger siblings got any kind of attention from his mother, Ronnie would become extremely jealous and troublesome until his mother put the on him. His behavior only got worse when the family moved to a suburb of Little Rock in 1950, where Ronald took to physically and emotionally torturing his younger half brother, Peter Griffin. In between the threats, pokes, pinches and slaps, Ronald would pull typical old older brother pranks, like telling his brother to pee off the porch, then yelling to his mother in midstream, peter's peeing out the porch.

Ben Kissel (23:22)

Look what he's doing, little fountain. Look what he's doing. He's pissing all over your prize winning, prize winning hydrangeas, mother.

Ed Larson (23:30)

I mean, it is a pret good show.

Ben Kissel (23:33)

It's a pretty good. Look how weak his stream is. Not big and strong like mine. I'm a Real baby.

Henry Zebrowski (23:42)

Now, Peter Griffin would later remember that even when Ronald was a child, he couldn't stand to be questioned. He always had to be right, and he always had to be the boss. If you crossed Ronald or if things didn't go his way, Ronnie Jean would throw fits, bellowing and stomping until everyone else just gave up. Up and agreed with him. Physical punishments common at the time, like spanking, had no effect on Ronald Jean Simmons.

Ben Kissel (24:05)

Give me another one. More, more. Give me another one.

Marcus Parks (24:09)

You know, there were kids that backed into it.

Henry Zebrowski (24:11)

What?

Marcus Parks (24:12)

There were always kids that backed into it.

Henry Zebrowski (24:13)

Backed into the spanking. Yeah. What do you mean? There were always kids who backed into it. I never back. I never knew a kid who backed into it. I never backed into it. Well, actually, there was. There were some kids who did once. Yeah. They did actually take. Try to take the power back. They'd laugh or, or they'd.

Marcus Parks (24:30)

Ye.

Henry Zebrowski (24:31)

Give me more. Give me more. Like there were some. They definitely pushed back. Definitely. Yeah, yeah.

Ed Larson (24:36)

Whenever my mom hit me, I'd always laugh. It was my best defense.

Henry Zebrowski (24:38)

Yeah, yeah. That is true. That is true. But neither did Ronnie Jean Simmons behavior improve when his stepfather whipped him with a garden hose. In fact, it only seemed to make Simmons worse. Usually does. Because when Ronnie Jean hit a growth spurt after puberty, he began bullying his stepfather as well. And unfortunately, his stepfather suffered from debilitating asthma and allergies. Now, as far as his mother's health went, we've all heard our mothers say in a moment of dramatic license that we're killing them. Of course you've heard. I guarantee we've all heard.

Ed Larson (25:10)

I technically did.

Marcus Parks (25:11)

Yeah.

Ed Larson (25:12)

It was so big, I gave her.

Marcus Parks (25:13)

Diabetes and she died of that. Yes. My mom was more of a threats of suicide woman.

Henry Zebrowski (25:19)

Oh, okay. All right.

Ed Larson (25:20)

I had that, too.

Henry Zebrowski (25:21)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, but everyone knows you're killing your mother.

Marcus Parks (25:24)

You're killing your mother.

Henry Zebrowski (25:25)

Yeah, but Ronald Gene Simmons was such a little dickhead that he was literally killing his mother. Mother, she already had arthritis, cervical cancer, colitis, angina pectoris, and hardening arteries.

Marcus Parks (25:37)

She had hells of heels.

Henry Zebrowski (25:39)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (25:39)

Which is with horror. It's a horrific.

Marcus Parks (25:41)

Your heels fall off. And then she had upside down tits.

Ben Kissel (25:44)

Yeah. Worst thing in the world for a mother.

Ed Larson (25:47)

Yeah. But it's good if you ever want to suck out your own milk.

Marcus Parks (25:50)

Of course.

Henry Zebrowski (25:52)

But Ronnie Jean was so awful backing into it.

Marcus Parks (25:54)

That's called. That's called when you back into that. Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (25:57)

But Ronnie Jean was so awful that his mother said that she got heart Palpitations just from being around him. And his stepfather said that Ronnie Jean actually exacerbated his asthma. In other words, Ronnie Jean was a difficult boy. And as we all know, difficult boys often become difficult men. And Ronald, Gene Simmons would grow up to be the epitome of the difficult man.

Ed Larson (26:20)

You know, I take it back, now that we're thinking about it, I think with the Internet that he would have become like a child killer.

Marcus Parks (26:25)

I think he would have gone way worse.

Henry Zebrowski (26:27)

Truly, he was a child killer. He did murder many children.

Ed Larson (26:31)

Well, no, I mean, like, as a child. We need to talk about Kevin type thing, you know, actually.

Henry Zebrowski (26:36)

Yeah, yeah, I could see that.

Marcus Parks (26:38)

I could see him being very easily radicalized.

Henry Zebrowski (26:40)

Yeah. Oh, very much so. Now, since Ronnie Jean's personality was such a health hazard, his parents sent him to a boarding school in Arkansas while the rest of the family off to Albuquerque.

Ed Larson (26:51)

That's awesome.

Marcus Parks (26:51)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (26:52)

Because they were trying to see if they could alleviate the debilitating allergies, asthma suffered by Ronald's stepfather.

Ed Larson (26:57)

Have a few good years.

Henry Zebrowski (26:58)

Yeah. The next year, Ronnie Jean was released from the boarding school at the age of 16. He rejoined his family in New Mexico, although it soon became clear that boarding school had done nothing. Once home, Ronald was often heard to say things like, quote, you can't make me.

Ben Kissel (27:14)

Get away from me. Don't touch me. None of you cares anything about me. I hate all of you.

Henry Zebrowski (27:24)

That was from his stepbrother who remembered Ronnie Jean saying, Ronnie Jean said all this stuff so often.

Ben Kissel (27:30)

I hate all of you.

Henry Zebrowski (27:32)

Yeah. Peter Griffin had a full list of, you know, phrases that just came up all the time. In other words, Ronnie Jean was a deeply unhappy person, desperate to be praised. Despite having accomplished nothing in Albuquerque, Ronald also began enforcing his way of the world upon everyone around him. He decided that he hated cigarettes. Rough sell in 1950s New Mexico.

Marcus Parks (27:56)

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. That's their major food group.

Henry Zebrowski (28:01)

I mean, I spent a lot of time in the 90s in New Mexico and it was just cigarettes all the time, everywhere, in every single environment.

Marcus Parks (28:09)

That's like, wow. They stayed. That's like the look. Yes.

Henry Zebrowski (28:12)

Cigarettes and. But Ronnie became a lifelong militant non smoker who would performatively gag and cough when anyone smoked.

Marcus Parks (28:21)

Talk about just like, like that's the most enraging behavior.

Henry Zebrowski (28:25)

And he's not the first person that we've talked about who. I can't remember who else did pyromaniac.

Marcus Parks (28:31)

There was the pyromanic guy. Well, that was the guy who'd go.

Henry Zebrowski (28:35)

No, I'm Talking about somebody else. No, somebody else who did the same thing with cigarettes. I think maybe it was Herb Baumeister, like it was. But there is something about this that, you know, it's a psychopathic thing.

Ed Larson (28:46)

Yeah. And I don't think cigarettes made anyone cough till 1994.

Henry Zebrowski (28:49)

Not really.

Marcus Parks (28:52)

You know what? It truly. I think it's, it's because, it's because of this. It's the. He's being highly antagonistic.

Henry Zebrowski (29:00)

Yeah. Well, his attitude towards cigarettes was so ridiculous that it was described by his future brother in law as, quote, comically prudish.

Ed Larson (29:07)

This is annoying. As someone who's never smoked, I hate that.

Marcus Parks (29:11)

Yeah, I get it. Right. I know that it smells or whatever, but you should just go someplace else or, you know, or, you know, if you really mean something, hit him, spray him with a hose, but really do something. Yeah.

Ed Larson (29:23)

Was he like real religious too?

Henry Zebrowski (29:25)

No, actually he, that, that was one of the things that he had, as far as I could tell, no religion at all, except for America. Oh. He was very patriotic. But religion, as far as I could tell, never played a role in his life. Because I honestly, I think he was so self obsessed that his morality was more important than God's. Yeah.

Marcus Parks (29:50)

Just his way or thy way didn't matter. Matter.

Henry Zebrowski (29:52)

Yeah. It's like. Yeah. Because I think to him, he would see religion as somebody telling him what to do, and he could not abide by that.

Ed Larson (29:59)

But the law he was good with.

Henry Zebrowski (30:00)

The law he was good with as well, you know.

Ed Larson (30:02)

Well, except for murderers.

Marcus Parks (30:04)

That's his family.

Henry Zebrowski (30:05)

Yeah, well, we'll get into that. But he, I, but I think he, he definitely chose America as his religion over Christianity. Okay. Now, Ronnie Jean moved around constantly because of his father's job and because he refused to do schoolwork. He never graduated high school school, even. At the age of 17, Ronald's only goal was to move back to Arkansas to start a large family of his own, where he would force his children to work a self sustaining farm. Ronnie Jean got so obsessed with Arkansas that he began disparaging any place that wasn't Arkansas.

Ed Larson (30:34)

Only person ever.

Marcus Parks (30:35)

Yeah, I've never heard that.

Henry Zebrowski (30:38)

And if anyone had anything nice to say about anywhere else in the world, Ronnie Jean was quick to tell him, well, it might be okay, but it's no Arkansas. Just, just bizarre.

Marcus Parks (30:46)

That's. Yeah. Very strange.

Henry Zebrowski (30:48)

I mean, I get that the Ozarks.

Marcus Parks (30:49)

Are beautiful, but Jesus, it's this one house. It's the only time you kind of remembered anything being happy for him.

Henry Zebrowski (30:55)

Yeah. Now Ronnie Jean's bad attitude naturally had consequences after the family moved to Berkeley, California, where he got a job as a busboy at a golf club. One day he came home from work covered in garbage, probably because the other kids got tired of dealing with him. But Ronnie Jean refused to tell anyone what had actually happened. Soon enough, Ronnie got his GED at the age of 17 and joined the Navy, beginning a 20 year military career where he continued being a pain in the ass to everyone around him.

Marcus Parks (31:22)

But that's where you can monetize being a pain in the ass very much so.

Henry Zebrowski (31:25)

You really can. And I think, you know, to your point, I think because he joined the military, it did. That did become his religion.

Ed Larson (31:32)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (31:32)

Well, this whole. It gave him everything that he ever wanted, which was authority at a hierarchy's notice.

Ed Larson (31:39)

Right.

Marcus Parks (31:40)

Like the idea that like all paperwork means that people have to pay attention to what he says eventually. Like, he created it for himself and a really important role within his little organization. He made himself like, he tried to make himself necessary. He was very. He was obsessed with it. And then the idea of like, that gave him his entire personality and every single bit of value he had.

Henry Zebrowski (31:59)

Yep.

Ed Larson (32:00)

At least he had the good nature to like, want to go to Arkansas and like, get in the Navy and go to the middle of the ocean where no one else would be.

Marcus Parks (32:06)

Yeah, you know, like, get me out of here now.

Henry Zebrowski (32:09)

After boot camp, Ronnie Jean was assigned to clerk duties in 1958 at a ship repair facility in Guam, where he surprisingly followed orders and showed himself to be eager to please anyone in authority. Ronnie also found that, like other difficult men we've recently covered, he had a natural aptitude for administrative work, which finally got him the recognition and regard that he had unreasonably demanded from his family. When Ronnie Jean returned to America after 18 months in Guam, he was a physically matured, broad chested sailor, confident. This, however, did not fix any of his social awkwardness, nor did it make him popular. He didn't date or make friends. And while he did develop a taste for beer, he only drank alone.

Ben Kissel (32:50)

That's an amazing prick fact that he only drinks alone. Like that idea too, of like, I'm.

Marcus Parks (32:57)

Just a social drinker.

Ben Kissel (32:58)

It's just like, no, I only drink when the only thing I can hear is ice in my rage.

Henry Zebrowski (33:06)

And that was how much of a dick he was. Is that he. Beer was fine, but liquor, no, you can't drink liquor. Beer's okay, though.

Marcus Parks (33:14)

Well, because liquor makes you too under, out of, out of control.

Henry Zebrowski (33:16)

Sure.

Marcus Parks (33:17)

My, my, they always say this Is like an old, old man thing. It's like an old idea that, like. Oh, he just drinks. Beer is fine. Yeah. That's such a enabling mother concept.

Henry Zebrowski (33:27)

Yeah. You can't be an alcoholic if you just drink beer.

Ben Kissel (33:29)

Just drinking beer.

Marcus Parks (33:30)

Oh, beer's not alcohol. You'll be like, yeah, he could drive with that. That's like water.

Henry Zebrowski (33:33)

Yeah, he's only. Yeah, he's only had 10 to 15 of them. It's not like he's had, like, two Bacca drinks.

Marcus Parks (33:38)

No. Yeah.

Ben Kissel (33:39)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (33:40)

That would be crazy. He's had 10. But he's only had. Let him go. Finally, Ronnie.

Ben Kissel (33:45)

Imagine George.

Guest or Additional Voice (33:46)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (33:46)

He's gonna just put up George Thoroughgood.

Marcus Parks (33:49)

This is a guy who looks up to George Thorogood.

Ed Larson (33:52)

I mean, George Thorogood is awesome.

Ben Kissel (33:53)

He used to be.

Marcus Parks (33:55)

He's. Now he looks up to 20, 23. George Thorogood.

Henry Zebrowski (34:02)

Finally, Ronnie Jean began attending USO dances at the local YMCA in Bremerton, Washington, where he was stationed there. A young woman named Becky Ulabari caught his eye, and Ronald watched her for weeks before he finally talked to her, after the other sailors dared him to. Apparently, Becky was typing up the schedule for upcoming USO dances at the current dance. And when one sailor commented on Becky's typing skills, Gene scoffed and said, actually, I can type a lot better than that.

Ben Kissel (34:32)

You can't type like a goddamn man.

Marcus Parks (34:35)

It's true. Because he was named the fastest typest. Right? That was his. That was his claim to fame.

Henry Zebrowski (34:41)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (34:41)

So I.

Ed Larson (34:42)

So manly, dude.

Marcus Parks (34:43)

But this was one of those moments that I honestly think he was this close to punching that woman in the.

Ben Kissel (34:48)

Face, where he's been like, you think you can type faster than me?

Marcus Parks (34:52)

This skinny little one can't type faster than me.

Henry Zebrowski (34:55)

Well, they eventually held a contest, which Ronald unfortunately won. And thus the wooing of Ronnie Jean's future wife began.

Ed Larson (35:03)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (35:04)

Now, Becky was very much a normal person who just got mixed up with a psychopath. Their courtship was reportedly uneventful for the three years they dated. But after they got married in 1960, Ronald Gene Simmons began verbally abusing his new wife.

Marcus Parks (35:18)

They met when she was really young.

Henry Zebrowski (35:20)

She was. Yeah, she was pretty young. He was fairly. They were both pretty young.

Marcus Parks (35:24)

Yeah, but she was like. Was she not. She wasn't even 18 yet. Right.

Henry Zebrowski (35:28)

I think. I'm not sure, but I.

Marcus Parks (35:30)

16, 17.

Henry Zebrowski (35:31)

Yeah, she was definitely not. Yeah, she was definitely not an adult.

Ed Larson (35:35)

She was working for the uso, so she had to be old enough to work.

Marcus Parks (35:38)

Yeah, I guess. Right. But I think they can Volunteer up to a certain point, I'm not quite certain but are you?

Henry Zebrowski (35:43)

It's also 1958, 1957. So you know the rules are definitely different when it comes to courting 16, 17 year old girls.

Marcus Parks (35:50)

Yeah, that's not even the thing. It's more just he saw somebody, I think that he realized he could totally control.

Henry Zebrowski (35:57)

Yes too.

Marcus Parks (35:58)

That he could kind of change from the inside out.

Henry Zebrowski (36:00)

Well not just that but you know, know women didn't really talk to him like he didn't really have, he didn't have the skills and for some reason she saw something in him that it like she gave him an N and they, I mean they actually dated for three years. Yeah, it was just, and it was just fine. But after they got married he would publicly reprimand Becky with sneering sarcasm, openly mock her for not knowing information that he knew and he would berate her for her so called called country grammar, implying that she was an idiot for the way she talked. But even though the marriage was obviously bad, Becky still gave birth to the first of their eventual seven children, Ronald Jean Simmons Jr. Who was coincidentally born on his father's birthday in 1961. The next year Ronnie Jean was released from Navy service. But after he discovered that life outside of the military was difficult because he had zero social skills, he re enlisted in the air Force in 1963. Right as the Vietnam War was first headlines.

Ed Larson (37:02)

So he's one of those guys.

Henry Zebrowski (37:03)

Well key I, I, I think at that point like in 1963 like Vietnam really was just like there's something going on over there. Like we're, we're not committed yet. You know, JFK still alive. We don't have a big military presence there. So if you join the military in 1963 you're not necessarily like, you don't necessarily know you're going to Vietnam. Like you're just joining the military.

Ed Larson (37:27)

But still it's the Air Force too. It's not the army or the marines.

Marcus Parks (37:31)

Yeah, but he's definitely Vol volunteering because he's getting a little tingling feeling he might get sent over because I do think that he wants to go. He is desperate for action.

Henry Zebrowski (37:42)

Well yes and no.

Marcus Parks (37:44)

He thinks he is.

Henry Zebrowski (37:45)

Yeah. Now Ronnie Jean was sent to Langley Air Force Base in Norfolk, Virginia where he worked. The barracks is basically a combination of a hotel night manager and a security guard. Very much a job for a difficult man. He likes telling other people what they can and can't do.

Ed Larson (38:00)

Henry, your dad was the security guard, right?

Marcus Parks (38:02)

Yes, yes, exactly.

Henry Zebrowski (38:07)

But the Thing about Norfolk is that Becky's older sister and her husband were also stationed there. They therefore got to know Ronnie Jean fairly well. And it's through them that we get a peek into the world of Ronald Jean Simmons in these early years. Now, as Becky's brother in law put it, Ronnie Jean was odd but not wholly objectionable. Which is not a ringing endorsement, and that's a direct quote.

Marcus Parks (38:31)

Odd.

Henry Zebrowski (38:32)

Wholly objectionable.

Ben Kissel (38:33)

I don't hate him. Hate him, but I hate him. Is that older?

Marcus Parks (38:37)

I'm gonna say that.

Henry Zebrowski (38:38)

Odd, but not wholly objectionable.

Ed Larson (38:40)

Yeah. There's moments of levity.

Marcus Parks (38:43)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (38:45)

Ronnie Jean's brother in law, however, seemed to have pretty low standards for what he considered to be not wholly objectionable. See, Ronnie Jean refused to have a telephone in his home, but only because he wanted to control anything and everything Becky said to other people. Ronnie Jean would even read his wife's letters before she maile used a post office box to control the flow of mail in and out of the house. Ronald also refused to let Becky learn how to drive. In other words, he had created a world where she was totally dependent on him, which was just the beginning of Ronnie Jean's all encompassing need to control every aspect of his family's lives. Now, to make himself an even bigger Ronnie Jean was also obsessed with learning new information so he could regurgitate it to everyone around him and show them not just how smart he was, importantly, how much smarter he was than them. His brother in law said that this made it very hard to know Ronnie Jean because anytime they talked, Ronald would just ramble on about all the new facts he'd learned without attempting to have an actual conversation with the other person. Do you know what?

Ben Kissel (39:53)

Dilophosaur. It's probably the size of a beagle.

Ed Larson (39:59)

Oh, yeah, What's. What is it? Dilophosaur.

Ben Kissel (40:02)

Shut up.

Marcus Parks (40:04)

Okay.

Ben Kissel (40:04)

It's a dinosaur.

Ed Larson (40:07)

On the end of it.

Marcus Parks (40:08)

Yes.

Ben Kissel (40:09)

Yeah, that pig. All right, well. Stupid dumper.

Ed Larson (40:12)

So you used to call me a fat pig? Not just a pig.

Marcus Parks (40:15)

Dilophosaur sometimes could go up to the.

Ben Kissel (40:18)

Size of a larger beagle.

Henry Zebrowski (40:22)

It really was as small as that. Like, it's like this. Did you know? Type. And because he made. He thought it made him sound very intelligent, very smart.

Ed Larson (40:31)

He's like. It's a guy who, like, pretends he's smart because he's good at trivia.

Henry Zebrowski (40:34)

Yes, exactly. Yes. He's good at very. He was very good. Ronald Jean Simmons, I will say this, actually, you did hit upon something very good there. He had an incredible memory and he could. He had an incredible memory for rules and regulations and facts, but he didn't know how to put it all together. All he had was memory and he, but he had no critical thinking skills, no common sense. He couldn't make anything actually happen, happen, you know. And to that point, when Ronnie's brother in law brought up something that Ronald didn't know, Ronnie Jean would get flustered and irritated and do his best to sarcastically respond to his brother in law claiming that sounds like you don't know all the facts. As I said, this guy would have killed on social media.

Marcus Parks (41:15)

This is the lord of do your own research. He would have had Ivermectin in his eyeballs.

Ben Kissel (41:22)

Like, you know, one of those. Oh yeah, yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (41:24)

Like for example, the brother in law once made a comment that he was taking his car in for a tune up and an oil change. Very. Just like, it's what I'm doing today.

Ed Larson (41:32)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (41:32)

But Ronnie Jean took his innocent comment as an opportunity to grab his young son and sarcastically boast, well, we do.

Ben Kissel (41:39)

Our own tune ups, don't we, son?

Ed Larson (41:42)

I love when this guy killed his sister and this is still what he's hung up on.

Ben Kissel (41:53)

Well, we do our own two nights.

Ed Larson (41:55)

This one time said this real prick thing to me.

Henry Zebrowski (42:00)

No, he didn't kill his sister. He did not.

Ed Larson (42:02)

Oh, okay.

Henry Zebrowski (42:03)

No, no, no. This was, yeah, oh, he killed his sister in law.

Ed Larson (42:07)

Oh, okay.

Henry Zebrowski (42:07)

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's, that's the thing is that's kind of a given that he's an asshole or a given that like, oh, I don't like that he killed my sister in law.

Henry Zebrowski (42:18)

But it was, but you know that this is how we know who Ronald Gene Simmons is. Because after he was arrested, he didn't talk to anybody. And in fact he held, he held the record for the man who was executed in Arkansas quickest because he got it done real fast and he just, he didn't talk.

Marcus Parks (42:35)

Because he did talk. He did not talk. And I don't think he even appealed.

Henry Zebrowski (42:38)

Yeah, no, he didn't actually. He, he, he told them, give, kill me faster. But what we know about Ronald Gene Simmons comes from the people who know him, like people like the brother in law who, who talked to this true.

Henry Zebrowski (42:52)

But yeah, it's, I think the murdering his sister in law, that's baseline.

Henry Zebrowski (42:58)

Now, Ronnie Jean got promoted again and again in the Air Force, but his evaluations usually came with a remark that he did not get along well with others. So Ronnie Jean was again and again given jobs that were tailor made for people who didn't care if others liked him.

Marcus Parks (43:13)

And they love. The army likes having those guys.

Henry Zebrowski (43:15)

Well, I mean, this is the Air.

Marcus Parks (43:16)

Force, but, you know, I mean, the military.

Henry Zebrowski (43:19)

No, the military always needs guys that nobody likes. But the promotions, however, came with raises. But instead of sharing the wealth with his ever growing family, he now had two children. Ronnie Jean insisted that Becky and the kids make do with as little as possible.

Marcus Parks (43:33)

It's like he wanted to torture him even more. It's like now that we have the money, it's like. It's almost. He can't even enjoy that.

Henry Zebrowski (43:42)

Well, the thing is, he doesn't want anyone else to enjoy it because he can spend money on whatever he wants.

Marcus Parks (43:47)

Oh, yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (43:47)

But he has to have strict. He always had an opinion. Opinion on what was frivolous. And he would yell at his wife for. For frivolous spending. And basically for him, frivolous meant anything that he didn't personally want.

Marcus Parks (43:59)

Yeah.

Ed Larson (43:59)

Because his sixth gun was very much in need.

Henry Zebrowski (44:02)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Marcus Parks (44:03)

No, you had to have that.

Henry Zebrowski (44:05)

Even though he was making more money than ever, Ronald moved his family to a trailer park off base so he could save 50 a year on rent. And I don't care if it's 1960, 50 a year is not a lot. It's not a reason to move your family to a trailer. He also began pilfering towels, dish, and toilet paper from the base. Anything he could.

Ed Larson (44:24)

Well, that I get. I love stealing. I'll steal the soap out of every hotel.

Marcus Parks (44:30)

That's called being trash. Like us.

Ed Larson (44:32)

That's fine.

Marcus Parks (44:32)

We're allowed to be trash.

Henry Zebrowski (44:33)

But all of this was done with a purpose. See, Ronnie Jean had never let go of his dream of purchasing his childhood home in Arkansas. So every penny was saved for this purpose. And I mean that literally. Ronnie Jean made spreadsheets for budgets that would save literal pennies. And he was so exacting that his wife and kids would hide their.

Henry Zebrowski (44:55)

Now, in addition to everything else, Ronald Gene Simmons was also an obsessive patriot. When the Vietnam War began, moving closer to total bloodbath territory, Ronnie Jean wrote to his commanding officer in 1966 offering to volunteer for service in Vietnam. And while I'm sure lots of men with good intentions did this, it really does feel like the guys who asked to go to Vietnam were mostly dickheads. Yeah. Ronald, however, did not want combat. Instead, he wanted to be stationed in Saigon working for the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, which fell under the purview of the Office of Secret Intelligence, the osi, a group of Difficult men if ever there was one.

Marcus Parks (45:35)

Because isn't that basically mean they are internal Affairs?

Henry Zebrowski (45:38)

Yes, this is. This is internal Affairs. Yes.

Ed Larson (45:41)

This is basically an mp.

Henry Zebrowski (45:42)

Yeah, he is a. I would say he is a. Like a detective active. Like a little bit above an mp, but more. More of an investigator, but, yeah, definitely in that area.

Marcus Parks (45:53)

Yeah. Because it was debris. Yeah. He. He was a professional pain in the ass.

Henry Zebrowski (45:57)

Yeah. I mean, his new job meant that he was going to be an arbiter of morality in an active war zone. He was going to be a narc, meaning his main job was breaking up black market contraband rings that sold alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs.

Marcus Parks (46:09)

Just this idea that. I know a lot of people got hooked on heroin.

Henry Zebrowski (46:12)

Oh, yeah.

Marcus Parks (46:13)

In Vietnam. Vietnam. But the idea of taking their weed away. We're gonna.

Henry Zebrowski (46:16)

Or their cigarettes.

Marcus Parks (46:17)

We're gonna take their cigarettes.

Ed Larson (46:19)

Yeah, just let them.

Marcus Parks (46:21)

They're all gonna be sprayed with Agent Orange in, like, six weeks. Buddy, let him smoke a cigarette. Buddy.

Ed Larson (46:28)

If they would have just let him join the infantry, he would have been killed by his own men, and none.

Ben Kissel (46:32)

Of this would have been a problem. Well, you know what?

Marcus Parks (46:35)

It is, too here also, I. I will say the OSI is technically also looking for people that are selling information to the other side. Side, like, there's. That's the far extreme end.

Ed Larson (46:44)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (46:44)

Is spy hunting.

Henry Zebrowski (46:45)

Yeah. I mean, that. He did. That was part of his job. I mean, it wasn't just petty bullshit.

Marcus Parks (46:51)

It was mostly petty.

Henry Zebrowski (46:52)

It was mostly petty bullshit. But he was also, you know, in charge of investigating, you know, South Vietnamese officers who might have been selling secrets to the nva or Americans who sometimes they sold, you know, offensive or defensive capabilities to the Viet Cong. Like, he was in charge of that which, you know, that is an important, important task. But Ronnie Jean had found the perfect job for a difficult man. His job was to make the lives of others harder. People who are in an already impossible situation. It's like, if you're in Vietnam, he is the guy, like, you know who I kind of think of him as? Good morning, Vietnam.

Marcus Parks (47:29)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (47:30)

The boss.

Ed Larson (47:31)

I was thinking about that.

Ben Kissel (47:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (47:33)

The guy who's like, he. Bruno Kirby, he's. He's pedantically, you know, like, you have to follow these rules. You know, like, I don't care if you're making other people happy. You're breaking the rules.

Ed Larson (47:43)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (47:43)

This is Vietnam, not Disneyland. Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (47:47)

Follow the Ho Chi Minh trail. So on and so forth.

Henry Zebrowski (47:53)

From your grave.

Marcus Parks (47:54)

This is an ad by BetterHelp. Can you feel the ticking clock of the holidays.

Ben Kissel (48:03)

What are you gonna buy me, dad?

Marcus Parks (48:06)

Oh, I want this locket. And if I don't get it, I'll leave you.

Ben Kissel (48:10)

Trevor, what am I gonna do to get off of work? They said they need me. They need me as the bullet factory. I can't get off for Christmas. Oh, I hate the holidays.

Marcus Parks (48:23)

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Ben Kissel (49:00)

Therapy can be one of the first new traditions too, right?

Marcus Parks (49:03)

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Henry Zebrowski (50:07)

Right?

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Henry Zebrowski (51:04)

Now, while Ronnie Jean was off in Saigon, he had stuffed his wife and kids into a 20 foot camper at her parents house in Colorado. Parked next to his van as if the family were just more possessions to store. He then removed the wheels from both vehicles so Becky couldn't leave. And he gave them just $40 a month on which to survive.

Ben Kissel (51:24)

Now I've made the car just a shitty little room.

Henry Zebrowski (51:27)

Yeah. And $40 a month, about four. It's about 380 bucks a month in today's cash, which it's fucking nothing.

Ben Kissel (51:36)

Literally nothing.

Ed Larson (51:36)

Did she have a job?

Henry Zebrowski (51:37)

No. Well, she couldn't. She just sat there with her two kids in a trailer for 13 months.

Ed Larson (51:43)

Damn.

Henry Zebrowski (51:44)

I think they said that she went to a rodeo once and that was it.

Marcus Parks (51:48)

And that's not even that fun.

Henry Zebrowski (51:49)

Yeah. And then finally, after Ronnie Jean's tour in Saigon ended after 13 months, he returned to America for an OSI job in San Francisco. Cisco. He also parked his family's trailer in vaville and commuted 50 miles each way so he could keep his wife isolated. Now, Ronnie Jean arrived in San Francisco in the summer of 1968, and he still had the same narc job he had in Saigon. And as you said, I get that you had to keep heroin under control in Vietnam, but Ronnie Jean gleefully narcked on any serviceman in San Francisco who even so much as smelled like. Like weed. Ronnie Jean had shown up in San Francisco the summer after, the Summer of Love.

Ben Kissel (52:31)

Like everyone's all weed.

Henry Zebrowski (52:32)

Yeah. Yeah. And he hated hippies. Hated them. And there were hippies everywhere. But this meant that Ronnie Jean was very busy ruining the good time of any serviceman who had the misfortune to even be seen with a hippie.

Ed Larson (52:47)

I'm surprised they didn't like all get together and beat the out of them.

Henry Zebrowski (52:51)

You know, it's really funny how, how he was seen. Like, I'll get into it a little bit later. But the way they described him is that he was neither liked, but he was also not feared. He wasn't really. He was just sort of something. He was like a. An annoyance that you had to deal with.

Ed Larson (53:07)

Yeah. He was just there and you had to Avoid him.

Henry Zebrowski (53:09)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he wasn't that. He wasn't smart, he wasn't clever, he wasn't powerful.

Marcus Parks (53:14)

I mean, he was just a part of. He was a cog in the machine. But to, to the military, he was very useful. I think that he, of course, because.

Ed Larson (53:23)

They don't want their service menstoned.

Marcus Parks (53:24)

Well, I don't even know if it was about that. I just think he did his job really thickly. He, quote, unquote, anticipated needs. He loved his position, which is actually difficult to ask them to do because it's one of the most like, dumb. Like you basically go to Vietnam to sit at a desk.

Ed Larson (53:41)

You need someone that has no friends.

Marcus Parks (53:43)

To do this job.

Henry Zebrowski (53:44)

Oh, very much so, yeah, yeah. You can't. The person who is, you know, trying to, you know, sniff out the black market cigarette ring, you gotta have somebody who doesn't care if they're liked. And in fact, you gotta have somebody who kind of likes being disliked. Now, even though Ronnie Jean hadn't seen a second of combat in Vietnam, he nevertheless became a gun nut once he returned. Admittedly, he had lived through parts of the Tet Offensive in which the Vietcong had launched surprise attacks against military and civilian command centers throughout South Vietnam. Nobody was safe during the Tet Offensive. And a lot of people who thought that they were safe from combat were killed, killed during that attack. But because Ronnie Jean had at least been shot at, or at the very, or at the very least he was on a base that was attacked, he began fantasizing about wielding an M16 rifle in pretend firefights against the Viet Cong.

Ed Larson (54:34)

A little old for that.

Henry Zebrowski (54:35)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (54:41)

To look at me like I'm.

Marcus Parks (54:46)

Worst. He's a fucking prick. Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (54:48)

He went to gun ranges and put in dozens of hours practicing with M16s, Rugers, revolvers and rifles. And much to the misfortune of his family, Ronnie Jean became an incredible shot. Now, Ronald took great pleasure in bragging about his job with the OSI to others, but when anyone asked any follow up questions, he would smugly tell them, quote, that's classified. Such a fucking dickhead thing to do. That's classified. I'm sorry.

Ed Larson (55:14)

For him, it was code for the school story's too boring to tell.

Ben Kissel (55:17)

It's extremely boring. He does paperwork for a living.

Henry Zebrowski (55:20)

But even though Ronald certainly had power, he was neither. As I said, he was neither feared nor loved by his peers and was mostly known for having an annoyingly good memory for orders and regulations. Because of his exacting nature, Ronnie Jean believed that he deserved an OSI posting in Washington, D.C. but when the OSI denied that request, Ronald began taking out his frustrations on the government agency that employed. Employed him, which never works out well for anyone. He wrote several long, pedantic letters to Air Force bureaucrats complaining that he deserved any post he wanted. Then he cited rules and regulations to back up his argument.

Marcus Parks (55:59)

Like this idea that it matters.

Henry Zebrowski (56:01)

Yeah. The Air Force did not respond kindly because they did at some point in the military, difficult men outlive their usefulness. And they go. Once they go over that line, it's like, oh, okay, it's time to stuff this guy somewhere where he's not going to do any harm. Well, good.

Marcus Parks (56:17)

The last place they want him is in Washington, D.C. yeah, you're fine being at a desk in Vietnam during a war. Like, yeah, you. Yeah, you could stay there.

Ed Larson (56:26)

Yeah, we like you in Guam.

Marcus Parks (56:28)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (56:28)

Well, that's the thing, is that they actually assigned Ronnie Jean to a posting in England, working as a desk clerk, counting inventory. It was a pointed demotion. Just after Ronnie Jean and his family arrived In England in 1973, Becky gave birth to their fifth child, which put the Simmons clan at three boys and two girls. But while his desire for a large family was going nicely, the demotion in England with Ronnie's sense of how the world should be. And he therefore began beating his wife.

Ed Larson (56:58)

He's traveling the world. He should, like, have any type. He's seen everything.

Henry Zebrowski (57:02)

Yeah, I know.

Ed Larson (57:03)

Should just enjoy life at this point. San Francisco, England.

Henry Zebrowski (57:07)

But it's.

Marcus Parks (57:07)

But it's not the thing.

Henry Zebrowski (57:08)

But it's not what he believes he deserves.

Marcus Parks (57:11)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (57:11)

You know, Arkansas.

Ed Larson (57:12)

And he's right.

Henry Zebrowski (57:18)

From what it seems like. The beatings began when Becky finally demanded that Ronald teach her how to drive. Ronald begrudgingly agreed. But every time Becky made a mistake, Ronnie Jean would physically strike her. And after that precedent was set, Ronald would hit her for any mistake, like not making a meal the way he liked or not doing laundry correctly. Ronnie Jean's five children, meanwhile, were treated as new nuisances. Whenever the family did something that Becky and the kids wanted to do, Ronnie Jean would complain about how boring it was the whole time and then would finally find a reason to never do it again. For example, when the kids wanted to get into roller skating, Ronald tried it first. But when he crashed and hurt his elbow like the nerd that he was, he declared that roller skating was too dangerous to be a family activity because he wasn't good at it.

Ben Kissel (58:05)

Nobody could control the wheels. You got eight wheels Underneath you.

Marcus Parks (58:08)

That's insane.

Ben Kissel (58:09)

That's four more than a car. That's illeg of wheels. So much you have is four. Age is illegal, it's dangerous, it's a menace. And we should burn the goddamn derby to the goddamn ground.

Ed Larson (58:21)

Why is the floor so slippery?

Ben Kissel (58:22)

I hate the sounds of laughter. I hate spinning.

Henry Zebrowski (58:28)

And I hate the Bay City Rollers.

Ben Kissel (58:31)

God, I hate them with their armpit hair hanging out of their garbage overalls and their Scottish delight. We're gonna go hang out at the.

Ed Larson (58:41)

Warehouse and count the boxes so we.

Ben Kissel (58:44)

Can actually have fun. One box. You see that boy? Two boxes. Yeah, Counting the boxes there.

Henry Zebrowski (58:53)

While Ronald Gene Simmons was remote and withdrawn from his family. Aside from when he was angry with them.

Ed Larson (58:58)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (58:59)

He began paying extra special attention to his 12 year old daughter Sheila when they moved to England. Attention the was of a decidedly incestuous quality.

Ben Kissel (59:08)

Yeah, it's getting romantic in here. I guess it happens when she's my little Guinevere.

Marcus Parks (59:13)

Yeah.

Ben Kissel (59:14)

And I'm Lancelot.

Henry Zebrowski (59:17)

God damn it. Ronald would make Sheila sit on his lap while he rubbed his hands on her upper thighs. And he would act like he was adjusting her clothes just so he could put his hands inside her pants. Ronnie Jean also had a predilection towards taking naked photos of his children while they were in the bathtub. Which a lot of people do for some reason know why they do.

Ed Larson (59:37)

I got a couple nudie shots.

Henry Zebrowski (59:39)

Yeah, I know. Everyone has a couple of nudie shots. Still not sure why, but then he.

Marcus Parks (59:43)

Said he'd laugh uproariously when they'd cover their penises.

Henry Zebrowski (59:46)

Yeah, he really, he thought it was really funny when they got bashful. But the worst thing is that the nude photos he'd taken of his daughter Sheila, those were kept in a special envelope in his dresser.

Ed Larson (59:57)

Oh yeah, no, you gotta, you gotta put them in front of everybody. With everything else, it's gotta be Disney World naked picture right next to it. Otherwise it's weird.

Henry Zebrowski (60:05)

Well, I think he, I think what he was, was doing is he was signaling like he was. He was signaling to his whole family that Sheila gets treated differently. And I have a sexual attraction towards Sheila. And you're all going to have to deal with it.

Marcus Parks (60:19)

Yeah. Cuz he believed it was his right that she was his property.

Henry Zebrowski (60:23)

Ron became so obsessed with his daughter that when the family would take drives, Sheila would sit up front alone with him while his wife Becky and the other four children were forced to cram themselves themselves in the back seat.

Marcus Parks (60:35)

There. There was some of this. This is kind Of a common weird thing though sometimes where I know my grandfather would treat my mom like that a little bit in a way where she. Cuz my grandmother was so debilit. Debilitatingly mentally ill and so bad to be around. My grandfather used to do all these kind of like public facing things because he was the PR guy for Pepsi. So he'd bring my mom out, she'd like put her in dresses and she'd be sort of like his day date. Two things.

Henry Zebrowski (61:01)

Was he molesting her?

Marcus Parks (61:02)

No.

Henry Zebrowski (61:03)

Okay, then it's not the same, but.

Marcus Parks (61:04)

No, but I'm saying, but she got to meet John Wayne. That's nice.

Henry Zebrowski (61:09)

That's really, that's really nice.

Marcus Parks (61:11)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (61:11)

No, I mean this was, this was control again. It. It's showing everyone this is the way things are. Yeah, yeah. And it's. He's demoting his wife. That's what he's showing her is that like I.

Marcus Parks (61:21)

He got demoted.

Henry Zebrowski (61:22)

Yeah. Now in 1975, Ronald Jean Simmons received orders to move once again. Again. This time he was ordered to the mountains of New Mexico to work at a satellite base near Alamogordo. Incredibly, Ronnie Jean had rose to the ranks of master sergeant, which meant he was second in command of the facility. This of course, inflated Ronald's sense of self worth and his patriotism even more, even though the facility was on its way to closing by the time he got there. From the way I see it, by the mid-70s, people were just trying to get rid of Ronald Jean Simmons any way they could. And sending him to a satellite base in New Mexico that was about to close was another doing this. Now, once Ronnie Jean arrived at the rental house in Alamogordo that he got for his family, he found that the rental did not come close to meeting his exacting standards. So he wrote an excruciating four page list detailing the house's every shortcoming.

Ed Larson (62:16)

Just came from a trailer.

Ben Kissel (62:17)

Yeah, but this is all these lives.

Henry Zebrowski (62:20)

But now this is where he lives.

Ed Larson (62:21)

Oh, okay.

Henry Zebrowski (62:22)

And this is where he is trying to find his new life. And so since it's for him, it has to be exactly correct. And typical for a control freak, making lists have become quite a habit for Ronnie Jean. He was obsessed with keeping lists, notes and records, which meant that he lugged around triplicates of military orders, requisition forms, contracts, titles. He would even have cards that detailed the family's finances and would keep them for years afterwards. He was so obsessed with cataloging everything that he kept old grocery lists and receipts from years earlier. So he could document the rising cost of everyday goods like man haze and adjust accordingly. He had to know.

Marcus Parks (63:04)

Oh yeah, because the idea is total. It's total control. Obviously. It's just. What? It's just out of control. This is the, this is like the father from Sleeping with the Enemy.

Henry Zebrowski (63:16)

Yeah, I haven't seen that in years.

Marcus Parks (63:17)

Do you remember that movie with the. His hers towels and the ones off, you know, when he freaks out?

Ed Larson (63:22)

Man, I can't just trust anyone who would have been so excited when Excel was invented.

Ben Kissel (63:29)

Like, oh, what a good new way to categorize things.

Marcus Parks (63:32)

That's true.

Ben Kissel (63:33)

Cryptic and un understandable.

Marcus Parks (63:35)

You don't even need an eraser for this spreadsheet.

Henry Zebrowski (63:39)

By 1979, Ronald Dean Simmons had finally qualified to retire from the Air Force. He'd saved up the modern equivalent of $67,000, which included an insurance payout that he had stolen from his siblings a few years earlier after his long suffering mother had finally passed. It was such a dick move. She left his. She left her three kids $3,000. And when Ronnie Jean found out about it, he called the insurance and somehow convinced them that he was the only beneficiary. And then told his siblings to fuck off. I got all the money. Using his savings, Ronnie Jean bought a house on a plot of land 11 miles east of Alamogordo in New Mexico's Lincoln National Forest. And it's here that Ronald's control freak behavior reached a new level. See by this point, Gene and Becky had five children between the ages of 15 and 3. Three boys and two girls. And their sixth child was on. On the way. That meant that Ronnie Jean was making good on his fantasy of having a large family. Arama claimed that he had bought this remote property in New Mexico for his children so they could have a wholesome upbringing that avoided exposure to the dangers and perversions of city life. Ronnie Jean was of course terrified of drugs and he decried the so called race mixing that was happening as a result of integration. Because Ronald was obviously deeply racist. Deeply. But drugs and miscegenation were just the start of Ronald's list of so called moral pollutants. And he likewise became obsessed with environmental pollution as well. He convinced himself that tap water was impure poison. And he became obsessed with, you know, purity of essence.

Marcus Parks (65:18)

Gets very much into the world of. This is like proto chemtrail obsession. Yeah, yeah, this is like proto, like.

Henry Zebrowski (65:24)

That style fluoride in the tap water.

Marcus Parks (65:26)

And same thing with the mistrusting vaccine or like the general science because the idea that you Know better. It's another layer of a thing that you know better. You've, you've lived enough life, you can tell the difference between what's good and what's bad because you know, yeah, we're.

Ed Larson (65:40)

Killing the world, but I'll never recycle.

Marcus Parks (65:42)

Yes.

Henry Zebrowski (65:44)

Now, Ronnie Jean didn't actually see his six children as people. Instead, they were more of a security blanket and an ego boost.

Marcus Parks (65:51)

How many fathers and mothers do we see like this?

Henry Zebrowski (65:54)

Oh, yeah, well, the more kids he had, the better he felt because children were capital. That affirmed his manhood and his virility.

Marcus Parks (66:01)

Yeah, this is like Andrew Tate shit.

Henry Zebrowski (66:02)

Yeah. But more importantly, the children were going to be Ronnie Jean's labor force. The ones who would transform the New Mexico property from wilderness to a functioning self sustaining farm. But as I said, Ronnie Jean was all talk. And even though he'd studied various survival manuals and he had a lot of confidence in his own abilities, he could never actually follow through with anything. And his plans for living off the grid failed time and again. And it wasn't just because he couldn't put together his own ideas. It wasn't just because he didn't have any critical thinking skills. It also failed because his workforce was all children.

Ben Kissel (66:37)

Oregon Trails lied to ME this thing sucks. This whole thing sucks.

Ed Larson (66:43)

I like to think his neighbor was a toy box killer and they were just having different levels of depravity.

Henry Zebrowski (66:50)

Each.

Ben Kissel (66:50)

Other every once in a while. Like there's something about that David Ray guy, Parker Ray guy, I like him. He's a nice guy.

Henry Zebrowski (66:58)

I'll say that. They're in different parts of New Mexico, even though they are there at around the same time. David Parker Ray is down in Elephant Butte. It's, you know, more like a little bit more of the desert. He's where Ronnie Jean Simmons is, is that he's near a town called Cloudcroft, which is near a town called Rio Dosa, which is actually. He lived where my family used to go vacation when I was a kid. The mountains in middle class Texans in northwest Texas, you go to Ruidosa and Cloudcroft to vacation. So it is. And it's gorgeous up there. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's incredible.

Ed Larson (67:33)

That's how much Texas sucks. Yeah, you gotta go to New Mexico.

Henry Zebrowski (67:38)

Yeah, I mean, like, let's say comparatively beautiful.

Henry Zebrowski (67:44)

Well, that's the thing, is that Ronnie Jeans, he's got all of these kids clearing and stacking rocks. They're mixing mortar, they're carrying concrete blocks so they could build a retaining wall. Like he's not hiring contractors. It's a 15 year old boy and a 13 year old girl and their 6 year old little brother. As one author put it. Ronnie Jean had his kids perform concentration camp style labor. Although that's a bit of an overstatement.

Marcus Parks (68:09)

They had like machines. Yeah, but you know, like, you know, big machines. They actually had some good contractors.

Henry Zebrowski (68:15)

Yeah, but even so, the kids began work every morning before school and continued afterward until well after dark. As such, the kids struggled in school and had no interaction with the outside world. Ronnie Jean again refused to have a phone in the house, although his new excuse was that a telephone quote tempted the children to frivolity.

Marcus Parks (68:35)

You know why Freddie Freaker.

Marcus Parks (68:40)

That's the problem, dude. You didn't want them touching Freddie.

Henry Zebrowski (68:43)

Yeah, that's actually, that is a good point. Yeah, because Freddie Freaker, well, you could.

Marcus Parks (68:46)

Have all busted that whole family wide open.

Henry Zebrowski (68:48)

He really could. Yeah, because he.

Ben Kissel (68:51)

You can't see it.

Marcus Parks (68:52)

You can't see it.

Ben Kissel (68:52)

You can't even hear it.

Marcus Parks (68:53)

So I'm doing the Freddie Freaker dance.

Ed Larson (68:54)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (68:55)

They can't scam from New York to LA if they can't use a phone. That's true. Well, in 1978, the first member of the Simmons family pushed back. This first rejection of Ronnie Jean's will, however, would be the pebble that would lead to the wholesale massacre of the Simmons family family nine years later. See, by the time Ronnie Jean's eldest son, Gene Jr. Became a senior in high school, he had decided that all the forced labor it was a bunch of. He didn't want to do it anymore. Ronnie Jean therefore beat his son within an inch of his life. So Jean Jr. Ran away to his grandparents place in Colorado. Ronnie Jean quickly brought him back and he made Gene Jr's life a living hell. Until the kid moved out the first chance he got. Jean Jr's treatment, however, was nowhere near as bad as what Ronnie Jean was starting to do to his daughter Sheila. By 1978, Sheila was 15 and Ronnie Jean had begun taking photos of her breasts and her hips. By October of that year, Ronald had begun raping her. All while he openly defended his sexual attraction to his daughter. As quote, the natural instincts of a father.

Ben Kissel (70:00)

The natural instincts of a father nor normally involve you making yourself your own grandfather. And that's what's nice here. I'm just adding batter to the batter.

Ed Larson (70:10)

Yeah, it's like if the grabber like attacked his own family.

Ben Kissel (70:13)

Yeah, you're right. God, I love that guy.

Marcus Parks (70:18)

Wish he was my friend now.

Henry Zebrowski (70:19)

Even though Ronnie Jean was fully focused sexually on his own daughter. By the end of the 70s, he was still doing everything he could to impregnate his wife again and again, no matter what effect it had on Becky. See, after she gave birth to her sixth child in her late 30s, doctors told Becky that there was a good chance that she would die if she had another child. So she got an iud. But when Ronald found out about that, he made her remove it, which resulted in the birth of their seventh child, Becky Jr. In 1979. And you know, you got too many kids. When you start doing the Mom Junior.

Ben Kissel (70:54)

Names.

Henry Zebrowski (70:57)

You'Re out of ideas. After child number seven, Becky's doctors told her that she would definitely die if she had another kid. So if she wanted to live, she needed to get her tubes tied. Ronnie Jean, of course, thinking only of his own fantasies, refused, and he got angry. And what seems like one of her first acts of defiance, Becky broke down in tears and straight up told Ronald that she was going to die if she didn't have the procedure. Ronnie Jean, therefore, had no choice but to. To agree, but he was not in any way happy about the decision. And while childbirth did not ultimately kill Becky Simmons, her husband's desire for control would still ultimately get her. In the end, she, along with all of her children and grandchildren, would be dead from gunshot wounds or drowning. In just seven years time, the family had finally begun to pull away from the tyrant in their lives. And it's there that we'll pick back up now next week for part two of Ronald Jean Simmons and the Arkansas Christmas Massacre.

Marcus Parks (72:08)

I love Christmas because this next one, everybody dies.

Ed Larson (72:13)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (72:13)

But this truly. What a horrible bastard.

Henry Zebrowski (72:15)

Yeah, yeah. An absolute piece of. Yeah. The. He is. The. He is the archetype of the difficult Man.

Ed Larson (72:20)

There is no redeemable qualities.

Marcus Parks (72:23)

None, actually. You know, I do believe the. The true archetype might be from back in the day. It was. I think it's from the Sparta, like Methuselah, the og.

Henry Zebrowski (72:31)

Methuselah from the Bible.

Marcus Parks (72:33)

The original difficult man.

Henry Zebrowski (72:35)

How is a difficult man?

Marcus Parks (72:37)

I'm trying to think of. That's a woman, right?

Ed Larson (72:39)

Yes.

Marcus Parks (72:39)

Nebuchadnezzar.

Ed Larson (72:40)

Old.

Henry Zebrowski (72:40)

No, Methuselah's a man.

Marcus Parks (72:44)

Would you not say that? The pharaoh. Oh, the pharaoh is the most.

Henry Zebrowski (72:49)

Which pharaoh?

Marcus Parks (72:50)

The one.

Henry Zebrowski (72:50)

There were thousands.

Marcus Parks (72:51)

The one Jesus got yelled at.

Ben Kissel (72:53)

How about.

Ed Larson (72:53)

How about.

Ed Larson (72:56)

A little more modern? A little more modern? Anyone? Anyone else?

Marcus Parks (73:00)

Andrew Jackson.

Ed Larson (73:01)

Thank you. Thank you.

Ben Kissel (73:03)

All right.

Henry Zebrowski (73:04)

Yeah. Andrew Jackson. He's a difficult man.

Ed Larson (73:07)

Very difficult man.

Ben Kissel (73:09)

Really great work.

Henry Zebrowski (73:09)

Oh, well, thank you very much.

Ed Larson (73:11)

Yeah, no, he's not talking to you. He was talking to Ronald Jean Simmons.

Henry Zebrowski (73:16)

Patreon.com Last podcast on the left is where you can go to watch video episodes. We record these. We film them, we put them on the Patreon. We also do stream every. Every Single Tuesday at 6pm PST. Last stream on the left. So join Patreon for unedited episodes of that and to interact with us live as we film it, please do.

Marcus Parks (73:36)

And go to YouTube and watch our brand new streaming show on LPN TV. It is LPNRPG presents Bloodbath. We here at LPN are doing Vampire the Masquerade with our storyteller, Jared Logan, featuring professional, professional tt TTRPG player Ross Bryant and me and my sister. So we are really. We've been crushing it. We're having a lot of fun over there. So go check it out and go check out all. All our other new YouTube channels. Someplace underneath LPN, Romantasy, the Foreign Report, no Dogs in Space, and see us on tour. Last podcast on the left.com for tickets.

Ed Larson (74:15)

That's right. This Sunday, Henry and I are going to be in Las Vegas at Wise Guys Comedy the Town Center. December the seventh.

Marcus Parks (74:22)

Yes.

Ben Kissel (74:22)

We're gonna get up.

Ed Larson (74:24)

Well, after the show. Yeah, we will get up.

Ben Kissel (74:26)

Come on, guys, let's get nuts.

Ed Larson (74:28)

I'll be pretty sober. The.

Henry Zebrowski (74:31)

Come on, we're all men in our early 40s.

Marcus Parks (74:34)

Crazy. This weekend, man.

Henry Zebrowski (74:36)

You're gonna have three beers and go to bed.

Ben Kissel (74:38)

Yeah, but I'll have a Red Bull.

Marcus Parks (74:40)

So I might have four beers. Nice.

Ed Larson (74:42)

Next weekend, we're gonna be in Portland, Oregon for Friday and Saturday at Revolution Hall. That's going to be be all of us. And last podcast is then hitting the road in 2026. January 31, Philadelphia. February 28, Austin, Texas. March 13, Indianapolis, Indiana. April 25, Cincinnati, Ohio. May 29, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. June 27, Grand Rapids, Michigan. July 17, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and July 18, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

Marcus Parks (75:14)

Well, our entire house half year is already 2023. 2026 is, like, already planned, huh?

Henry Zebrowski (75:19)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (75:20)

It's almost like it's already in the bucket. Like we already did it.

Henry Zebrowski (75:22)

It's like we already did it. It's like it's not, you know, December at all.

Marcus Parks (75:25)

Jesus Christ, man. Well, hail Satan, everybody. And we are going to see out there on the ice.

Henry Zebrowski (75:30)

Yeah. And Magus relations, y'.

Marcus Parks (75:31)

All.

Ed Larson (75:32)

Hail Ronnie James Dio.

Ben Kissel (75:34)

Yes.

Henry Zebrowski (75:35)

Yeah.

Marcus Parks (75:35)

Every day.

Henry Zebrowski (75:37)

Yeah. Every whole entire. Every inch of Ronnie James Dio.

Ben Kissel (75:43)

Hail every inch.

Marcus Parks (75:44)

11 inches of that man was the peak of music.

Henry Zebrowski (75:49)

Well, that's.

Ed Larson (75:50)

That's a huge debate.

Ben Kissel (75:51)

Best musician of all time.

Marcus Parks (75:55)

Best guy that's ever lived.

Marcus Parks (75:58)

Not even.

Henry Zebrowski (75:58)

Not even close.

Ed Larson (75:59)

Best voice for a tiny man.

Henry Zebrowski (76:01)

Hey.

Ed Larson (76:02)

No, not even John Fogerty?

Ben Kissel (76:03)

Yeah, he's better than John Fogerty. Roddy James.

Marcus Parks (76:06)

He was definitely better than John Fogerty.

Ben Kissel (76:08)

Unfortunately, that's a long conversation.

Ed Larson (76:11)

No, no, no.

Marcus Parks (76:12)

You have to face that, dude.

Ed Larson (76:13)

No, you have to face that you are wrong.

Marcus Parks (76:15)

Sabbath was the only one that could even touch Ozzy's black sound.

Ben Kissel (76:18)

Yeah, buddy.

Marcus Parks (76:19)

Heaven and Hell is an amazing album.

Ed Larson (76:21)

It's fine.

Henry Zebrowski (76:23)

Yeah, we're gonna go with Credence on this.

Ben Kissel (76:28)

You're all fakers and. And liars.

Henry Zebrowski (76:31)

Credence going. Credence, bye.

Ed Larson (76:32)

Henry's sucking his own dick.

Marcus Parks (76:33)

You all.

Ben Kissel (76:34)

I can't anymore. Hurt my back.

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Marcus Parks (77:10)

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