Episode 656: The Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs Part I - Serial Spree

Summary

Last Podcast On The Left

Episode 656: The Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs Part I – Serial Spree
Release Date: March 13, 2026
Hosts: Henry Zebrowski, Marcus Parks, Kimberly Cumin
Network: The Last Podcast Network

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Overview

This episode marks the beginning of a deep dive into the infamous case of the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs—two Ukrainian teenagers (with an occasional third accomplice) whose month-long bludgeoning spree in 2007 claimed at least 21 victims. The case gained global notoriety after a gruesome murder video, leaked online as "Three Guys, One Hammer," spread across the morbid corners of the Internet, influencing digital subcultures, inspiring edgelords, and was even weaponized for geopolitical narratives.

The hosts explore the unsettling rise of the Hammer Maniacs, examining the intersection of privileged but disaffected youth, the collapse of post-Soviet Ukraine, and the dark allure of early Internet gore culture. The episode mixes true crime, social commentary, and the pod’s trademark humor, setting the stage for an investigation into the psychology, social context, and fallout of these brutal crimes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene – Eastern European "Maniacs" (02:58)

• The term "maniac" in Eastern Europe is far from the humorous American image—it signals the horrifying reality of serial murder:

  "Maniacs aren’t funny in Eastern Europe...They murder children with construction tools. No humor here."
  – Henry Zebrowski (03:10)

The Case in Brief (04:13–06:17)

• In 2007, two teenage boys (sometimes with a third) killed 21 people in a spree of shocking violence in Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine.
• Their crimes were filmed, and one video leaked as "Three Guys, One Hammer," showing unimaginable brutality and inspiring copycats and memes.
• The video was even cited by Vladimir Putin to demonize Ukrainian youth:

  "This case is surprisingly central to current world events."
  – Marcus Parks (06:17)

Gore Culture and Internet Morbidity (06:57–10:37)

• The hosts reflect on millennial exposure to gore online—sites such as rotten.com, Faces of Death, and beyond.
• Discussion of how the culture of "daring each other" to view disturbing content escalated in the early 2000s.

  "We didn't need to go to war in 2009. All I needed was my PC to see a man's hand turned into SpaghettiOs by an industrial shredder."
  – Henry Zebrowski (07:03)

• The hosts talk about the link between unfiltered Internet and developing desensitization among youth.

Roots, Privilege, and Social Context (15:12–19:49)

• Igor Suprunyuk and Viktor Sayenko—the primary maniacs—grew up privileged, their families closely connected to power structures lingering from Soviet times.
• These administrative-class kids were isolated from the post-Soviet deprivation many Ukrainians faced.

  "They lived in an entirely different fucking world.”
  – Marcus Parks (17:01)

• Ukraine’s post-Soviet chaos, described succinctly with help from researcher Rachel Burke, left a power vacuum rich with corruption, privilege, and political unrest that shaped the boys’ environment.

Early Warning Signs, Group Dynamics, and Escalation (25:12–38:45)

• The trio—Igor, Viktor, and Alexander Hanza—bonded over mutual insecurities, petty crime, and eventually turned violent, with Igor as the ringleader.
• Early incidents included throwing rocks at trains and escalating to animal torture, heavily documented on video.
• The hosts draw parallel lines to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Columbine), noting the dynamic of a dominant and a submissive personality:

  “They're both motivated. Viktor likes to beg off later...But if you watch the videos...he’s having too much fun.”
  – Henry Zebrowski (27:19)

Animal Torture as Precursor to Murder (40:07–48:27)

• The group began systematic animal torture—crucifying kittens, skinning dogs—filmed and shared for kicks. Court witnesses were traumatized by these videos.
• The Nazi imagery they adopted wasn’t ideological but designed for shock value, a recurring discussion on the podcast.

"These are not ideological Nazis. These are edgelord Nazis. The only reason why they like Nazis and swastikas and Hitler and all that is because it's the worst thing there is."
– Marcus Parks (43:36)

Desensitization, Offline Violence, and Parental Indifference (49:54–55:49)

• The group’s violence progressed from animals to people. They watched a constant diet of gore videos online, which Igor consumed as "instructional."
• They shifted to using unlicensed taxis to lure victims—common in Ukraine at the time—using the opportunity to rob, beat, and ultimately kill.
• Alexander eventually split from the group, realizing the escalation was spinning out of control.

Murders & Law Enforcement Failings (61:06–81:54)

The First Kill (63:42)

• The hosts detail the murder pattern: victims picked up by the fake taxi, taken outside the city, beaten to death.
• Law enforcement was inept, underfunded, and corrupt—unwilling or unable to connect the murders.

Notable Murder—Yakaterina Ichilchenko (70:03)

• One of the earliest counted murders:

  “There was no face, only parts of it.”
  – Marcus Parks quoting Natalia, the victim’s mother (70:03)

Escalation

• In less than a month, the maniacs murdered at least seven people in three nights, often targeting the most vulnerable (women, elderly, the intoxicated).
• Police repeatedly failed—pinning one murder on a 14-year-old boy who’d survived the attack.

“Now you figure by this point there would have been a major investigation...But there wasn’t."
– Henry Zebrowski (80:17)

Thematic Reflection – What Makes a Killer? (24:24–29:23; 44:00–44:54)

• The hosts debate why only a small set of kids drawn to morbid content cross the line from fascination to violence.
• Discussion of self-esteem issues and the psychological allure of cruelty, control, and shock for those feeling powerless or aimless.

"It's about self-esteem. That's—this whole thing's about self-esteem. Being frightening. And being frightened."
– Marcus Parks (48:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Eastern European “maniac” vs. American “maniac”:

  "When we think of a maniac over here in the United States...a person driving about five miles an hour faster than us on the freeway. Maniacs."
  – Henry Zebrowski (02:53)

• On why Putin cited the case:

  "This is one of the examples he used...of the run amok youth that just destroy the cities of Kiev and other such places."
  – Henry Zebrowski (06:22)

• On the allure of Nazis:

  "The only reason why they like Nazis and swastikas and Hitler and all that is because it's the worst thing there is."
  – Marcus Parks (43:36)

• On the failed policing:

  "Lack of funding created a brain drain because they couldn't pay the cops. So the good cops left, took over by corrupt cops. And the corrupt cops came into play because they would take money on the side...It's a whole thing."
  – Henry Zebrowski (66:43)

• On the giggling of the killers:

  "They give off very much a vibe, almost like a Beavis and Butthead vibe—but of course they've never seen Beavis and Butthead...the joy they have. It's the true utter total excitement. They are living their dreams."
  – Marcus Parks (71:29–72:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:58] – Defining “maniac” in the Eastern European context
• [04:13] – Introduction to the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs and their crimes
• [06:17] – Case significance to modern geopolitics
• [06:57–10:37] – Millennial gore culture and the Internet’s dark influence
• [15:12–19:49] – Backgrounds & privilege of the killers; Ukraine’s chaotic state
• [25:12–38:45] – Earliest warning signs and group dynamic parallels to Columbine
• [40:07–48:27] – Systematic animal torture escalation and Nazi shock-jockery
• [49:54–55:49] – Gore as “instructional,” parental indifference, acquisition of cars for crime
• [61:06–81:54] – Serial murders, policing failures, and victim details
• [70:03] – Graphic description of Yakaterina Ichilchenko’s murder
• [80:17] – Local awareness and authorities’ response
• [83:14] – Episode wrap-up and announcement for Part II

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Tone & Style

The episode balances chilling true crime with the hosts' irreverent banter, maintaining a mix of gallows humor, pop culture comparison, and genuine horror at the events. They move seamlessly between detailed narrative, social critique, and personal anecdotes, keeping energy high even as the material grows darker.

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Summary

Part I of the Last Podcast’s Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs series is a disturbing, insightful exploration of how privilege, warped role models, a lawless environment, and a culture drenched in shock media converged to birth a uniquely modern horror story. The hosts unpack the boys’ backgrounds, the Ukrainian context post-Soviet collapse, and the trajectory from Internet gore obsession to real-world sadism, laying the groundwork for a deeper dissection of the crimes, their investigation, and subsequent cultural fallout in the upcoming episode.

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Next Episode:
Part II will focus on the later murders, the infamous "Three Guys, One Hammer" video, the investigation and media firestorm, and the lasting legacy of the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs online and in international consciousness.

Transcript

[Henry Zebrowski]

This podcast is brought to you by Hotels.com make your next trip work for you. Hotels.com's new save your way feature lets you choose between Instant savings now or banking rewards for later. It's a flexible rewards program that puts you in control with no confusing math or blackout dates. Book [e-mail] Save Your Way is available to loyalty members in the US and UK on hotels with member prices. Other terms apply. See site for details. Last podcast on the left is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Marcus Parks]

There's no place to escape to. This is the last on the left.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's when the cannibalism started. What was that? All right, well, it's time for you all to come down with me into my world.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Oh, whatever.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, we've had too much nuance around here. We've had too much political awareness. Too much growth.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Too much context.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now it's time to take it all the way back. We're gonna regress. That's right. Welcome. It's the year 2010. No cares at all.

[Kimberly Cumin]

No cares why? Hernia.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Yeah, every pretty breakup that year that was rough.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But besides that, it was utterly perfect.

[Marcus Parks]

Ended up in an apartment with two holes in the ceiling and black. Mall didn't even have a kitchen. That was a really rough year.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But the porthole of the Internet, oh, it did look out in a darker world. Yes, indeed it did. And that's why we need to set the tone today, Rob, with my true crime music. Sometimes boys will be boys, but some other times, boys, they be maniacs. Hell yeah, man. Now, the term maniac is thrown around pretty loosely these days. When we think of a maniac over here in the United States of America, it brings up the image of a person driving about five miles an hour faster than us on the freeway. Maniacs. Or a loud man on a commercial. Absolutely. Gutting prices on mattresses so carelessly that you as customer get worried about their bottom line.

[Kimberly Cumin]

But I'm crazy.

[Marcus Parks]

Crazy Eddie.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But it seems overall in ye old Eastern Europe, it means something else entirely. Maniacs aren't funny in Eastern Europe. Mm.

[Marcus Parks]

Mm.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They murder children with construction tools. No humor here.

[Kimberly Cumin]

So are these the screwy screwdriver boys?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, baby.

[Marcus Parks]

Welcome to last podcast on the Left or were you going to take it?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Welcome to the last podcast on the left. My name is Henry Zabrowski. I'm your narrator here today, and I'm sitting here with the comedic mastermind Marcus Parks.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that's what I'm known for, my comedy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm excited because I've teed up Marcus to play the characters.

[Marcus Parks]

Sure. Yes, yes. I've been working on my Russian accent, or Ukrainian accent, as it were.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They're pretty much. They're very, very, very similar.

[Marcus Parks]

Cannot hear that. I mean, it's like the difference between, like a Georgia accent and a North Carolina accent. We can maybe tell the difference, but not over there. I would imagine a Ukrainian would not.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I'm Ukrainian. I don't even know what we sound like.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You sound like this, from what I can tell. Hungry? My dinner. No, this is my attempt. I completely wrote this script is my attempt for Henry Zabrowski to tell the terrible tale of the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, very nice.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I've been practicing it in the bathroom. Otherwise known as the Hammer Maniacs for our less Ukrainian and Clyde.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Hold on. These aren't the. The wretched wrenches.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, no, no. That's the softball team.

[Kimberly Cumin]

The vicious vices.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, again, that ladies soccer team. Now named for the location of the majority of the crimes, Dnepropsk is an industrial city in central Ukraine. In 2016, it was renamed Dnipro, which is great for me. Oh, Dnipro. Yes, because it was uncommunisted because it was originally named after a Russian soldier. So then they turn. They. They did that. They took all, I guess, all the Soviet stuff out.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it happens a lot in this area of the world. Stalingrad, Leningrad, et cetera, et cetera.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That make it short, make it snappy. Now, 2007, two teenage bullets, sometimes with the help of a third, go on a month long bludgeoning spree ending in 21 victims. What brought this case to international attention was due to the boys propensity to pictorialize their crimes on a cell phone. The videos of some such crimes were shown in court and not intended for release. But one piece of evidentiary video would get leaked to the Internet. No one knows how the uploader named it. Three guys, one hammer. And it depicted two thick browed Eastern European youths giggling as they beat a man to death with a hammer and pulled his eyeballs out with a screwdriver.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Oh, so they did use.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, they got one in there.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And it's more popping them out than Pulling them. Well, I guess it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm the author here, Phillips head or flat head. I think it's whatever they could get. People shared it all over the world fueled by the same morbid curiosity that birthed it. These maniacs would eventually get caught due to their own stupidity. Still, somehow this one video would go on to inspire a generation of edgelords on the Internet, generate several copycat crimes and eventually be used by Vladimir Putin to validate his current invasion of Ukraine.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it is. I mean this case is surprisingly central to current world events.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's really weird. Once I pop the hood on it, I'm going to explain a bit of it. It's. It's bit complicated, but it's one of those where this was where when we see the term now as Americans that are maybe not up on the news. This idea of Putin saying we're going to de Nazify Ukraine. This is one of the examples he used as some of the run amok youth that just destroy the cities of Kiev and other such places.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I thought we weren't going to learn anything today.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, you fucker. I slide it right in there.

[Marcus Parks]

He got the history bug many years ago. He can't. He. You cannot get rid of it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Actually, what's nice though is I am on a series of pills that keep Natalie from getting it now. This story has fascinated me since I first saw stills from three guys, one hammer. As a more evil young man, I'm certain I'm not the only one of you who saw as much of this video as I could handle. As a young morbid person, how many of us dared each other to look at an image that will forever be emblazoned in. In your mind. We didn't need to go to war. Not in 2009. All I needed was my PC to see a man's hand turned into SpaghettiOs by an industrial shredder. What is the image that comes up for first for you guys?

[Marcus Parks]

For me it is a rotten dotcom image. Do you remember where they cut the snake open and there was the dead guy inside? Yes, that's the one for me. That and also a guy getting his testicles and penis shoved into his mouth.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, something's got to be done with them, Eddie.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Well, I always like the. I liked a lot of Faces of death and Traces of death.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

As a kid and I remember faces. I don't.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Do you remember that HGTV Spaces of Death? Amazing show.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I liked. I think there was the one where the guy parachuted into the alligator pit. That One was always cool.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's fun.

[Kimberly Cumin]

And then there was.

[Marcus Parks]

Y' all wrote a sketch based on that, didn't you?

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Poor, sweet, gay Michael.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

And what was the other one that I always did? Oh, there's like the guys jumping off the building. There was the people cutting open the guys. There was a lot of it that just haunted me. And then I stopped at all. Like, I didn't even enjoy rotten.com because I was already out at a very young age because I had killed my eyes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Honestly, I wonder why more people weren't like us. Because I know I went deep into this. I end up seeing three guys, one hammer. Later on in life.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I didn't even know this existed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This was just one of those. When we were hyper online at a certain time period from 2008, when this came out, to 2010, when the formations of what made last podcast on the left jumped inside of our brains. This is by. This is a patch on that quilt.

[Marcus Parks]

Very big one. And it also, you know, it also says a lot about the Internet at the time because, you know, we don't know who put the video online.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We do not know.

[Marcus Parks]

But the name definitely tells you that it was someone who was chronically online. Because it's a reference to Two Girls One Cup.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Actually, Marcus, that's where you're wrong. Because the video is actually entitled Hot.

[Marcus Parks]

I learned that it became Two Girls One cup, though that's packaging called marketing. Yes, it became everyone.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Two Girls One cup was called Hot.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hungry.

[Marcus Parks]

Hungry.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, because they were hungry for poo poo. Yeah, for.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But it was yogurt are female dogs and dogs eat. Thank you, Eddie. Good work. Except for my lovely girls.

[Marcus Parks]

I had to stop my dogs, both of my dogs, from eating raccoon shit yesterday.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Be careful, they got worms in it.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, but have you tried it?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Depends if it's local now. It's a natural childlike curiosity. Yeah, I stopped them to look at gore. Right. It used to be flipping over rocks to see weird bugs or checking out a rotting animal skeleton.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That would eventually evolve to kids collectively looking at a weird porn magazine and maybe devolving into some kind of Okie Cookie like situation.

[Marcus Parks]

I feel that was more our father's generation. The Okie cookie. I feel like millennials put that to bed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I think that it happened once. One time. By the time were all 11 and everyone was like, whoa, whoa, this isn't porkies.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, we used muffins.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cuz none of you were. I guess that was before celiac disease was a thing.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, yeah, cinnamon rolls. Also catch everything. The little crevices.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Exposure to extreme imagery increased exponentially once the millennial babies started surfing the World Wide web in the family computer room. By the time our generation hit the age to start getting dark with friends, we were watching Tub Girl 2001. Two Girls, One Cop, also known as Hungry 2007. Torture Videos of soldiers in Abu Ghraib behavings videos from Al Qaeda.

[Marcus Parks]

Love them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Piles of cartel leaders heads. All the fun stuff. And eventually the Internet would accept and crown the new kings of Gore, the Hammer Maniacs.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Now, are you sure they were the leaders heads and not the guys underneath them? I don't. I feel like there was a bunch of heads. Those couldn't all be leaders.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Once we get into the finer details of that, what are we, you know, what are we doing? What are we legislating?

[Kimberly Cumin]

We don't know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But my main question in this series is why do some kids get repelled? And why do some kids say very few kids, but why do some of them say what if we made some.

[Marcus Parks]

I think it really does go back to.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a rhetorical question. It's a goddamn rhetorical question. We can answer it at the end. All right, all right, all right.

[Kimberly Cumin]

You literally asked a question, then put a break in the script.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Rhetorical question.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Ye.

[Marcus Parks]

I assumed that you wanted me to answer that question.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Tee up. We were just getting in there. Now one of our main sources. We'll get to save it. You save in your back pocket. One of our main sources for Today's episode is Psycho.com Serial killers on the Internet by Eileen Ormsby, which is a pretty thick 60 page section on the crime. That's the most what we could find in the English language.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Rachel Burke, who is our amazing. One of our fucking amazing new researchers. She's fucking crushing it. A research team, they did as much as they could looking at articles from the Ukrainian press coverage. Most of the direct information is inconsistent due to the inconsistent reporting around it. Yeah, the Ukrainian police were secretive and some of the reporting wildly sensational. We also used the 2010 Chilean documentary Los Manayo cos Del Martillo. And our incredible researcher Rachel, she filled my brains with context using a world of academic papers that I could not understand on my own, but she does.

[Marcus Parks]

And that Chilean documentary. Yeah, that one is in no way sensational.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh my God. You know what the thing about that, the that one is that it's all in on the concept that they were hired by Ukrainian mafias to make snuff films. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Which isn't true.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Those kids could meet a deadline if they wanted to. And what do we know about video editors?

[Marcus Parks]

They meet deadlines.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They have to.

[Marcus Parks]

They have to.

[Kimberly Cumin]

But I don't think it was edited. It was all one take, right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

This. No, it was edited down for the Internet. True. Someone took the. Someone took the original 30 minutes of it and edited into eight.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Really? They were like, this is. You know, there's too much here. You can cut this, lose that.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Too much context.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, too much context standing around.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There literally is like, 20. We'll. We'll get to this next episode. But there's, like, 20 minutes of them just hanging out.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Oh, okay. The Tulan documentary was interesting. I watched most of that. But it was like. The funny part was it was just. They would only, like, translate every other sentence. Sometimes it's like one sentence over the course of, like, four minutes. You're just like, I'll guess what they're

[Henry Zebrowski]

saying, but I'll say, you know, I was, like, happy with myself because there were some. I was like, I can understand a lot. I can understand some of the Spanish, like, because they're saying, like, my Niacos and Martin. They're, like, saying, like, muerte and saying

[Kimberly Cumin]

a bunch of stuff.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I understand.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, I get those.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. No, I know enough Spanish to understand what someone is talking about, but to not know exactly in what context they are speaking about it.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

They might have been saying the maniacals were awesome. I don't know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, I know that they're not saying that because they're frowning. It's a lot of low tones. It's a lot of, like, boom. Like, you know, but they really like this idea that. But what comes up again and again in this case, which I think is not too dissimilar from other serial murders, but it's. I think it's. It's very specifically, a strong part of this case is people wanting there to be a reason.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And there. There has to be a reason why, when I honestly think there doesn't.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah. Now there are kids, right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah. Let's get right into it.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I mean, college kids, you know,

[Kimberly Cumin]

but would you consider them tiny maniacs?

[Henry Zebrowski]

No. Tiny maniacs. Three foot and under. Tiny maniacs have a heart of gold. They just rough a tiny maniac. You don't want them to watch your dog, but you'd pet him like one.

[Marcus Parks]

They're not like, kid kids. They're, you know, they're. I GUESS they're what, 19, 20.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Let me get into it. Let's meet our maniacs.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, it's not so easy, is it?

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, I do these. You're answering before I get there. You're getting ahead of us. Get to it. Igor Suprunyuk was Unfortunately born on April 20, 1988. Yeah, man. A fact that he would grow to be proud of and exploit for his own personal lore. Bill teachers from his early years described him as a young Stephen Miller. The boy had a difficult character. Oh yeah, Actually, Marcus, you take this, please.

[Marcus Parks]

The boy had a difficult character. I had the feeling that he was constantly defending himself, although no one had offended him. He was very complex, but tried not to show it. I noticed his eyes, they were blue and cold like icicles. That made my blood run cold.

[Henry Zebrowski]

A 10 year old. Igor and those looking to explain his behavior often blamed his many complexes on his inability to show up to class or engage in school society at all. But those around him noted his Svengali like hold on a couple of fellow losers. One being his right hand man in the Dnipro Hammer murders. Viktor Sayenko, born two months before Igor, another petulant offspring of a doting mother and a well connected father. Victor would grow obsessed with Igor, following him around like a puppy dog. These two boys shared a similar history. Both grew up in a world separate from many of their countrymen and didn't have to wait online for meager rations to pay for groceries with coupons issued by the state.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I have a. Upper middle class by American standards. Upper middle class to upper class, but definitely of the administrative class. That was kind of a holdover from the Soviet Union, which, you know, in the Soviet Union the administration holds all

[Henry Zebrowski]

the power and they got one. They were just like one or two steps above everybody else. And in that fact, they lived in an entirely different fucking world. God, yes, they were born into a world just shy of a decade since Ukraine voted for independence and the fledgling state struggled to form its own identity. Now, I'm not going to do a full Marcus style context. Tsunami to all of you, all right? Because you could just end up taking this all the way back to the Hussars if you fucking right. And I know Smash, Smash, Club Glub, face gone stuff, more way more than I understand geopolitics, but here's my little fucking sum up, okay?

[Kimberly Cumin]

All right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If you play Risk and you plan to win, right? And you know some choke points are super crucial, right? But Jackie, she'd hold up in Australia because she was a fucking coward. She was afraid of a fight, right?

[Kimberly Cumin]

Like Kangaroos. Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, just like them. Fuck. Fake deer. But true home despots. No. Know that Ukraine is an extremely important base for closing off Europe, gaining entry into the Middle east. And this might actually be true, and not even just for rock solid risk strategy. Ukraine has been fought over like a laundry bag of K Pop underwear since the beginning. And more often than not, its people identify with surrounding nations like Russia, Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, depending on where your family is from.

[Marcus Parks]

And it's also, it's also geological as well. Like if you're, you're more on the western side of the Ukraine, you identify more with. If you're on the eastern side, then you identify more with Russia in even the. But even though the people in Ukraine, less of them identify as Russian than what the Russians want to make you think.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, just the idea or. And then also conversely works that there's so many people that are connected familially into Russia that when they come to invade them, they're like, I'm attacking my cousin.

[Marcus Parks]

Sure. And Russia's. And Ukraine is also a fucking massive country.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Here's Rachel Burke's amazing breakdown that actually made me make sense. Many Ukrainian nationalists view Russia as a historical oppressor due to Russian domination in the 17th and 18th centuries and the Great Famine of 1932-1933, which killed millions of Ukrainians. Other Ukrainians feel close ties to Russia because of shared history, language, culture and widespread intermarriage. Despite these differences, support for independence was broad. In the December 1991 referendum, more than 90% of voters supported independence, including majorities in every region. The Ukrainian state emerged quickly in 1991 through agreements between nationalists and the existing political elite. Nationalists agreed not to overthrow the government in exchange for a break from the Soviet Union. And because independence did not come through revolution or removal of the ruling elite, many Soviet era power structures remained. This led to an ongoing political conflict, weak party systems and policy stagnation. I didn't write it. Thank you, Rachel.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it does make a lot of sense though.

[Kimberly Cumin]

It does.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Does now boils down corruption ruled the land during this time of chaos and the closer you were to the governing body, the benefits were great.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah. It's really not that complicated.

[Kimberly Cumin]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's, it's the way it works in most countries around the world. Just the way humanity works. The more connected you are, the more likely you are to avoid consequences and the harder it's going to be to actually bring into justice.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What Epstein told me and taught me is that it's really good to Keep up with friends. But Epstein told you. Yes. I didn't realize you guys had. Oh, I built. No, I built an AI chat bot so I could talk to him after he died. Yeah, yeah, I'm using Gro, I'm using Grock, I have my epine bot. I talk to him every day and he encourages me to do all sorts of up stuff. I love him.

[Marcus Parks]

Does he do voice or does he write like little email missives to you? Like at the level of.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it's all misspelled, but he does a great Gilbert

[Kimberly Cumin]

from your grave.

[Henry Zebrowski]

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[Marcus Parks]

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[Henry Zebrowski]

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[Kimberly Cumin]

I know that.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You know his time in office. It was shadowed by persistent allegations of government corruption and systemic censorship of the press.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Says you.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And my paper. And my papers. His presidency is most infamously linked to the 2000 and murder of a journalist, Georgie Gongadza, who was an investigative journalist and founder of the online outlet Ukrainianska Pravda, known for exposing corruption among senior officials. Victor's father worked as a communications liaison for the Regional Prosecutor's office, a powerful local arm of the Prosecutor's General's Office of Ukraine. This will definitely come into play later on in the aftermath of the crimes. All of this is to say Igor and Victor grew up special and boy were they upset about it.

[Marcus Parks]

They were.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There was a third maniac, but he was definitely the zeppo of the group.

[Marcus Parks]

Underrated.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, I know, but that's what I'd say too. Same same Alexander Honza. He would be tried alongside the other two, but he did not participate in the actual murder of Any humans. In this case, he was different than the other boys. He grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in Soviet style block housing infested with rats the size of dogs.

[Kimberly Cumin]

They're small dogs.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, they're cute. Sounds cute. They're like palms.

[Kimberly Cumin]

That's cute.

[Marcus Parks]

Fleas the size of rats and rats

[Henry Zebrowski]

the size of dogs. And dogs and size of man. Dogs the size of man. He was also raised by a poor single mother. Nice. We'll also see how this plays out in the aftermath of these crimes. Victor Fianco, Igor Suprunyuk and Alexander Hanza met in elementary school and became close friends who did everything together. Some sources indicate they bonded together because they were afraid of bullies.

[Kimberly Cumin]

No.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now we see this narrative a lot when baby losers cause a lot of damage. Maybe because we want to believe there's a reason to kill 21 people with hammers and screwdrivers.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, just like we wanted to believe there was a reason why two shitheads could kill, kill 12 kids in Colorado.

[Henry Zebrowski]

These are very much an entire Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, like, couldn't be closer.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, man. It's almost a one to one. They're just the Ukrainian version, basically.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I don't think Dylan and Eric could have done this. Well, I don't think they had the fortitude to go searching for weeks.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Episode 2 we'd find out it's because these boys were desperate to get their hands on a gun and they just couldn't. Couldn't.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I think Eric Harris could have. Dylan Klebold I don't think would have got. I. I don't think Dylan Klebold would have gotten his hands as dirty. But Eric Harris definitely could have. But he had it in him.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This one's definitely. They're both motivated. Victor likes to beg off later on saying that, oh, I was just in it for like the thrills and the money or whatever. Like basically just the money. All the practical side of it. But if you watch the videos or if you look at the pictures, you could see that's not the case.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, he's having too much fun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's really enjoying himself.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, there are definitely, you know, stories in the past we cover like this where, you know, you got two people that are committing a bunch of murders. And, you know, one person certainly never would have committed, like Caroline Fugate never would have committed a murder if she hadn't hooked up with Charles Starkweather and Dylan. I do not think that Dylan Klebold would have committed any murders had he not Hooked up with Eric Harris.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, he probably, hopefully would have just committed suicide.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. But Charles Starkweather definitely would have murdered people without Caroline Fugate. And Eric Harris definitely would have murdered someone without Dylan Klebold.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But I would say it did not take much to have Igor push Victor into his world. No, it did not take much.

[Marcus Parks]

Victor. Victor would have been someone who would have accidentally killed someone someday. Just being reckless.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, also, I just think that there were little evil, because what makes more sense to me is that a neighbor described Igor as. He always had success with the girls. He was handsome and tall. As if Igor and Victor couldn't fit the borscht flavored Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold profile. More the way our little evil put it, they were afraid of the bigger boys. They never got personally attacked by any of them. They just assumed that they would have problems with bigger, more aggressive boy men.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I mean, Ukraine's full of them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah. And if you're runt in the Ukraine, that's hard, right? You're. You're a small one.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I'm small. As far as Ukrainians go, I'm weak.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And you were the largest baby born in the state of Florida at the time. Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Just Florida, though, Not Ukraine over there. They're like 40, 50 pounds.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. They split. A woman has to actually actively be split open to the sternum to give birth to in Ukraine.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And then they slop it all together with just some kind of white cheese.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

All Ukrainian babies have to be dehorned.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I actually. I had to cut all this out of the context just because I just figured that this would, like, would lead to further discussion. I didn't. I didn't want to do that. So it's like Igor then he. I believe, in turn, he became a bully to those smaller than him and taught Victor and Alexander to follow suit.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Suit.

[Henry Zebrowski]

In the fifth grade, the boys had their first known encounter with the law when they were caught throwing rocks at moving trains. Now, this sounds like innocent, childlike shenanigans. Sure. But I do think it's important to remember, and I don't mean to be the fun police here, is that all it takes is one rock through a moving train window to kill a person.

[Kimberly Cumin]

What are the chances, though?

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's a lot. As a matter of fact, in 2017, five teenagers in Ohio and Michigan played a game that they called overpassing, where they tossed large rocks from a highway overpass onto the road below. Hitting a vehicle was called a dinger. And in one week, they scored dingers that resulted in the death of two people. Their parents also tried to call it shenanigans, but the justice system did not see it that way.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Put to death.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Honestly, they were crushed old school, Salem style.

[Marcus Parks]

There's a world of difference, though. Of like throwing rocks at a train and dropping rocks from an overpass.

[Henry Zebrowski]

From the Hammerman Maniacs. Yeah. Do you think that. Do you think that the difference is. The fact for me maybe is that they were the Hammer Maniacs and that maybe it wasn't that innocent. When it's. The Hammer Maniac.

[Marcus Parks]

Might not have been.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's what I'm saying, is that when it's the hand, when it's other children. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

Because I've thrown plenty of rocks at trains when I was a kid, but in America, we don't really have that many passenger trains. You're just throwing rocks in industrial waste.

[Henry Zebrowski]

See, that's. That you're throwing at Just. That's what I'm fine with.

[Marcus Parks]

Right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

If it's just like piles of just steel or whatever going through, they're throwing in my passenger train.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Okay.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Try to throw the rocks at the Bright Line, dude. Bright Line will kill your ass.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, dude. They'll come for the train is angry there, man. It jumps the track. Back to the Ukraine. When the police knocked on Victor's door and demanded compensation for the damage to the damaged train, which I guess something they could do in Ukraine. The Sankos, they just paid up. Question their son about the incident. Their innocent son told them, igor made me do it.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Eat.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You do it. All right. M. What do you have got.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, you got to do the characters.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm sorry.

[Marcus Parks]

To do it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm sorry.

[Marcus Parks]

Does it himself.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Their innocent son told them, igor made me do it. And they said, no more Igor. Victor no more. But I love it. Victor, you're naughty little maniac. You're little me. And you're going to love you. Let us ask Top Girl what she thinks. That was my Tub girl impression.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I don't know what tub Girl is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Look it up.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Nah, we got time.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, look it up. Do it right now.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Why not?

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is great for the episode.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Marcus is doing it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Look up Tub Girl. You've never seen Tub Girl?

[Kimberly Cumin]

I don't know.

[Marcus Parks]

Look it up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

A diarrhea girl. That's different. Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Top Girl.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay. I didn't know she was called Tub

[Henry Zebrowski]

Girl, but that's her official title.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, yeah. Diarrhea girls. Too long.

[Marcus Parks]

Long. Yeah, that is true.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I fell in love with the diarrhea girl. Sorry. Victor didn't listen though, right? He didn't listen to his parents because he was infatuated with the peculiar and charismatic Igor. And his parents didn't enforce the rule. I wonder if he was attracted to the unibrow. If you do look at pictures of Igor, he looks like the evil baby in the Simpsons. Like Maggie's. Yeah, he's got like, the furled brown.

[Marcus Parks]

He's.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He looks like a little grump. Igor and Victor had PCs from an early age. This is just another example of their privileged lives.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Politically correct.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Colin Quinn came to the house and they did. Then he would do tough crowd. And then it would ship. Then Bill Maher would come over and then they had did PC. Most of their classmates, they didn't have regular Internet access at the time. Time. And they were not unlike a lot of kids from this time period where they loved surfing the net.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We don't know the exact websites they first encountered, but we do know there were collectors of videos that circulated of murders committed by drug cartels and beheadings of journalists by terrorist organizations. We know this because during the investigation, it came out that Igor had amassed hundreds of them with Ukrainian news called

[Marcus Parks]

Episodes of Sophisticated Dork, Murder, Abuse and Murder taken from the Internet.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was in a folder he shared with Victor called Man, my mom was so mad. I think about this, right? My mom was so angry about those lesbian school girls I was looking at. She had no idea I was being an ally.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, no, that's right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I was being. It was like, that's the equivalent. Me masturbating lesbian school girls when I was a kid was like the equivalent of me being at a pride parade.

[Kimberly Cumin]

You were studying.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I just wanted to know how to love them. Yeah. Support them. They're business women.

[Marcus Parks]

But you were also looking at the same stuff that these kids were looking at at the same time.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. I just jerk off. Right. And I was all the heat would leave and I'd go outside and I

[Kimberly Cumin]

hate to see what these guys think scissoring is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They show it. Later. In seventh grade, the boys started to level up. Igor wanted them to be strong, longer, fearless. He plumbed the Internet for ways to overcome fear and figured they should face it head on. Both Victor and Igor were afraid of heights. Both of. And for some reason, they were like, bullies are gonna know we're afraid of heights.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And they're gonna use that against us instead of.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, I, I, I, I wonder if this is some sort of, like, if it has something to do with the switch over from Soviet rule into, you know, like independent rule. If there was some sort of like classist thing going on, where may their parents saying, you know, the lower classes are going to take over us all. We don't know. Like the whole system is out of whack.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's no daddies anywhere. Yeah. Right.

[Marcus Parks]

And all the daddies are super corrupt.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. So all the daddies are gone. The police are hyper corrupt. They're basically non existent. Massive social systems are falling apart. It's. There's a lot of chaos. So we could see them being like, we need to be careful. Everybody's going to try to kill us. But also sometime, what do we know about the statement when all you have is a hand, a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[Marcus Parks]

That's right.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Also, you know, overcoming your fears is probably the most positive things these guys ever did.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I just wish that they had done it for something else like public speaking. Because instead it led to. It's led to this. So in a scene almost directly out of the 90s evil boy thriller, the Good Son.

[Marcus Parks]

Great movie.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I love that.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Phenomenal film.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Kid's name's Henry.

[Marcus Parks]

Really?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

The evil one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, the evil one.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Nice.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it was awesome. And it was from Coley. Cole Culkin, who we knew was evil. Igor convinced Victor to spend hours standing on a balcony of a 14th floor apartment, leaning over the railing and gazing straight down into the verta until their vertigo subsided and their fear of heights diminished. Technically, like an exposure in cbt. Yeah. They considered the face your fears method a resounding success.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Does it work like that?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cbt? That's what I do.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I write exposure things of like the worst thing you could possibly think of because I have ocd. One of the worst things that happened, happens with ocd, honestly, is that you have a fret. You have a fretful thought, you have an upsetting thought. So then what you want to do constantly is comfort yourself saying that can't happen. You intellectualize why that can't happen. But actually what you're doing is starting the cycle of anxiety again. Instead of just sitting with the bad result, sitting with the worst possible extent of your bad thought.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Another thing that you can do is use a funny voice to say your bad thought out loud. And that kind of takes away.

[Henry Zebrowski]

My wife doesn't really love me. Your diabetes is. Take my feet. Yeah, it works. Honestly, it does work.

[Marcus Parks]

I am going to be framed for a crime I didn't commit and spend

[Henry Zebrowski]

the rest of my life in prison. See, it's fun to do. It works.

[Marcus Parks]

That's my CBT voice.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It really does work. It's really great. The next year, Igor beat up a kid, stole his bicycle, which he later gave to Victor. Although he caught the attention of the police, he wasn't charged. And the local rumor mill believed that this was due to his connected father. And as the story always goes, Victor's parents once again forbade him from being friends with Igor. Use a bite. He's a bad maniac. You're a good maniac. All right. All right. But they still didn't supervise him closely or question his whereabouts. So the two boys continued to see each other.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Secret.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The three boys, they began to terrorize the school. It would begin to specifically target younger, smaller boys and older people for physical assault. Assault. This pattern would continue into the murders. They would vandalize property and openly huff glue on the street. Yeah, I mean, this part I like. This is the only thing I was like. This could have been fine. They could just stayed like this. No one called the police because of Igor's father's connections. Igor would actually overdose on glue in the eighth grade. And it's very sad to have such a near miss couple of Ukrainian glue huffers. Great. You know, I think it made his eyebrows grow towards each other.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Oh, maybe they tried to get rid of it and the glue is what kept it stuck.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Stuck right there. Yeah. It was all just him trying to shave his Hitler mustache off. Right. Now, this all came to a head in 2002 when a teacher accused the boys of committing hooligan acts against her. Don't know what that means.

[Marcus Parks]

Hooligan acts. I would imagine throwing things, I think that hooligans do.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But also there's a little bit of. Cuz one I found interesting with all of these crimes is there's. There's no sexual component. No, none, none. And it's all just blatant murder. But I do feel like maybe in something in this. There's something about this reads to me because they almost got in very big trouble for this thing. And we don't know what the details are. I think it involves something like pinning her down or doing something to the

[Kimberly Cumin]

teachers physically thumbtack on the chair.

[Henry Zebrowski]

She did some classic. They did something to her, whatever it was. But Ste didn't face charges. Igor was instead transferred to another school. Alexander was sent to another school. Now, has this problem. Has this ever ended a problematic relationship

[Marcus Parks]

between teens splitting the kids?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Has it ever done it?

[Marcus Parks]

No.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Does it only ever make them worse? Yeah, I Feel like that's what you

[Marcus Parks]

do because you're not listening to the teenager.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You are listening to the teenager saying I'm going to kill everybody.

[Marcus Parks]

What do you do?

[Henry Zebrowski]

But literally like what do you do? What do you. How do you.

[Marcus Parks]

Were you asking me? How do you deal with the homicidal.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like not rhetorical.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh yeah. Yeah. Now you want my answer.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

One of the hardest questions to possibly answer.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Let's go military school.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah. Right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Straight to war. I knew this Iranian fucking ground surge is really going to be good for some. Something. Yeah. We're really gonna wipe out some losers.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Every boy needs a war, right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Every. They really do. Being exiled from each other did nothing to stop their star crossed love. Igor, Victor and Alexander quickly descended into total depravity. They began to systematically torture animals to death as a group activity. They would then film these torture sessions on Victor's phone. I. This is gonna be a real rough. A lot of animal violence coming up.

[Kimberly Cumin]

So. So what do you think? How long you think this is going to last? The animal violence? Probably like five minutes if people wanted to skip six weeks.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I know we got just like whatever in five minutes. Just know it's like we're just. The reason why I'm describing this is so you can really understand the total depravity of where these guys got to.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah. Cuz there's always a reason to kill a person.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Pretty much, yeah. Got double 10. One of the videos shown in court, to the horror of those attending, depicted Victor, Igor and Alexander crucifying a kitten on a wooden cross they made in Victor or Igor's garage. They filled the kitten's mouth with glue to stifle its screams, taking turns shooting at it with pistols loaded with Rover bullets. The boys laugh and swear throughout the video, enjoying the small creature's torment. A criminologist said that he could only evaluate the video with the sound turn off. Off.

[Marcus Parks]

I could not listen to the painful squeals of puppies and kittens that were gutted alive, burned, hung up.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He said there were many videos of this nature. Maybe this newfound hobby gave Igor the confidence to blossom into a capital and Nazi. Now I remember when I first joined theater, like I discovered theater and it was amazing, but really that just led me to Hawaiian shirts.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. Not Nazism.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, but yeah. Well, that was again, I was a character actor and at the time it was different. I was. Our racial explorations into different forms of the worlds of theater was us embracing foreign cultures. That's why I played an Indonesian man.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, you barely Crucified cats.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The only reason why I crucified him is with love. And we did it the way Jesus did it, where the real way were like the other guys that were in Jesus didn't get nailed in. They just tied him.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's mostly just. It's not about bleeding to death. It's about starving him to death.

[Kimberly Cumin]

You're right.

[Marcus Parks]

And letting him slowly suffocate.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thanks, Marcus.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Whatever happened to Bravis?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I remember his last words were just, ouch, Ouch, ouch, ouch. So Igor took selfies of him and his little buddies and they added Hitler mustaches and Microsoft paint. This is true.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Is that real?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, it's real.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Many pictures like this. And unlike many high schoolers whose deaths were. That were covered in the cool S. Yeah. The Slayer S. Sty. It's both. I looked it up. It's n. It's known as the Slayer s Cool S and the Stucy S. Which is funny.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Igor and Victor like the uncool S known as Swat the badass.

[Kimberly Cumin]

It is a horrible S. It's a badass worst S. There is H. Cuz there's two S's on top of each other. We talked about it in the Himler.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, well.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. That's how. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[Kimberly Cumin]

So it's just so easy to drive.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's the problem. I mean, it's branding.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's why Target's great. These are not disciplined Hitler youths. I imagine Himmler's extreme disappointment looking down from heaven. He apologized. They cobbled together a mean and lean version of hate ideology directly from the mall of racist troll dents on the Internet.

[Marcus Parks]

And this is incredibly important to this whole thing because these are not ideological Nazis. These are edgelord Nazis. The only reason why they like Nazis and swastikas and Hitler and all that is because it's the worst thing there is. They read all this shit on the Internet and they read about all of the horrible things the Nazis have done. Because it was out there back then.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Of course.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, it's like when I was as a boy. Right. I loved villains.

[Marcus Parks]

Sure.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I loved the Empire. I loved all these things. And I remember being a little boy and being interested in history and there are. You could see as a little kid.

[Marcus Parks]

Kid.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That type of imagery. So it's so powerful and clear. Yeah. That when you're a weak little, you could see it. I. I do a little bit of a run up in. Later on in the script about this, but I. I do. I could See, it's a childish impulse. Well, it's like fascism is childish too.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, very much. No. Well, fascism is all about Daddy, Daddy taking care of you and telling you what to do. Yeah, but I think with these kids, it's more just that, you know, the UK punks kind of went through something similar. Is that Nazi imagery? It is the worst, most offensive thing there is. And in Ukraine, like, especially like a former Soviet territory is like when the Nazis did. I mean, we talked about in the Himler series. They did so many horrible things.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So sticking a finger in. It's sticking this finger into it. Now, Alexander. Well, I call him the Ma of the group.

[Kimberly Cumin]

What's Ma?

[Henry Zebrowski]

From Planet Captain. Planet the one.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Oh, come on.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, I'm being silly.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Is that the guy at heart?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. Leave him alone.

[Marcus Parks]

I know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean, he's the best one. That's why I put him as Alexander Mati.

[Marcus Parks]

Okay. And first, you know, I actually thought it was a dune thing, but that's.

[Henry Zebrowski]

See, Alexander, he had a professed aversion to blood. They said he was so sensitive, he couldn't even wash a new baby kitten in case he scalded it with the water. In his friend. In this friend group that wasn't gonna play.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Also just touched the water beforehand. You know, it's just like you could

[Henry Zebrowski]

tell if it's too hot for Soviet Russia, water touches you.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I remember one time I was working at the 99 MI affiliate, the Cheesesteak restaurant. And we had this guy, he wasn't that smart. He worked in the basement, but he was really nice. And there was one day we. They caught a bunch of mice, run the glue trap, you know, and he's like. And he tried. I came downstairs and he was just crying, and I was like, what happened? He's like, I tried to free the mouse, but he put boiling water on him because he was too stupid. And so. Because he was trying to dissolve the glue, but he didn't realize he just cooked the mice. And he was just crying downstairs because

[Henry Zebrowski]

he killed the mice accidentally became the Hammer Maniac.

[Marcus Parks]

This man's.

[Henry Zebrowski]

By any.

[Marcus Parks]

What's his name? Lenny, by any chance?

[Henry Zebrowski]

I just. I just wanted to see them run.

[Kimberly Cumin]

He tried.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He did. He honestly did. I tried to take it back. I tried to take it back.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I just be like, damn, man. You know this. I don't want this to be comical, but it's kind of funny.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you for this. It's been a hard day and I want to say thank you. So Igor extrapolated his Fear destroying techniques to include animal torture. He suggested capturing, dismembering the many stray dogs in the forest near Alexander's house. The group began capturing and slaughtering dogs and cats with regularity to get used to it. They skinned them alive and hung them from trees and disavowed them where they would bleed to death slowly. Many of the photographs that came out in the investigation documented the animal torture and the boys posing with the corpses. Zig Hiling making funny faces. You know, boy stuff.

[Marcus Parks]

I mean, yeah. I mean you make a joke, but that's what it looks like. You can't. It looks like they're on vacation.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They took pictures of themselves with dogs hanging from nooses in the background. The walls covered in swastikas drawn in animal blood. Phrases written on the forest rock walls. Kill everyone, take everything. The lower you fall, the higher you will fly. Killing is just a tough way of making money. The pictures are haunting. You see two dead eyed boys in mid Zig Heil with Hitler mustaches drawn on their hairless lips, giving off a vibe of a Halloween costume taken way too seriously in front of surreal violence. There will be no more animal murder. Just so you know. There will be no more animal murder mentioned in this episode. I just want to let you know what type of maniacs we're dealing with. Just know what happened a lot now. All of the Nazi imagery the boys use really helped tread experts to try to explain away their behavior. It makes it much easier. Easier to say. In response to bullying at school, these disaffected young men found confidence in fascist ideology. As if they have a brain in their head to choose. Then you wouldn't have to say the more likely reason they thought it made him look badass.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. It's about self esteem. That's. This whole thing's about self esteem.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Being frightening.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And being frightened.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because that's where it all comes from.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. From radio Silence, directors Matt Bettinelli Open and Tyler Gillette of Scream. And Abigail fame. Ready or not to Here I Come picks up exactly where the first film left off. Our heroine, Grace Battle, worn and drenched in blood, stumbles out of the carnage thinking she's finally free. She's not. Surviving has made her the target of a mysterious cabal of eccentric power hungry legal billionaire families. When her estranged sister is pulled into their trap, the two must fight the High Council for the seat that controls the world.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Double or nothing.

[Marcus Parks]

Ready or not too. Here I come as only in theories. March 20. Hey, did you know Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. If you didn't know it, you know it now. Now they have all the plants your yard and home needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs and houseplants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's like your local nursery, but anywhere. You live with more plants than you'll find anywhere else. Plus you get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them every step of the way. Fast growing trees is actually pretty cool. They got a whole system where you can put in where you live and it gives you your zone so you know you can actually plant that tree or that plant in your home and it's not going to die. They don't just sell you stuff that just goes into the trash as soon as it gets there because it died so soon. Now I got myself a fiddly fig tree off of fast growing trees. It's a banjo fig and it's a lyre fig and it's a wonderful tree. We still have it in our home today because they got the indoor stuff, they got the outdoor stuff, they got anything you want, just as long as it got dirt. Right now they have great deals on spring planting essentials, up to half off on select plants and listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code left at checkout. Offer solved for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This is the time when kids benefit from reviewing key concepts and strengthening skills before assessments. I Excel helps reinforce what they're learning right now so they feel ready and capable. I Excel is an award winning online learning platform for Pre K through 12th grade with personalized interactive lessons in math, reading, writing and science that adapt to each child's level and progress. Pace proven in all 50 states. To improve grades, students who use I Excel score higher on tests. Believe me, Carmelito went in for trig this week and she was really scared because she kept going, bark, bark, bark, what's a test?

[Marcus Parks]

Right?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Bark, bark, bark was a test. And as I got her through the IXL like program, not only she become more erudite, she already started asking better questions. You know, I just looked at her and instead of asking stuff like bark, bark, bark, what's the test?

[Marcus Parks]

Test?

[Henry Zebrowski]

She goes like, bark, bark, bark. I want chicken. I'm like that. IXL is really expanding her vocabulary and I can't believe she can talk. Make an impact on your child's Learning Can I excel now? Last podcast on the left. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com left visit ixl.com get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. It wasn't long before the killing extended to human beings. They have been preparing for this for almost four years. One classmate was certain the goal of murder was intended from the balcony training days as far back as seventh grade. A classmate, Nikolai Parchuk, said that Igor developed a new nonsense back in seventh grade Raid.

[Marcus Parks]

He decided to check whether he had enough mental strength to kill.

[Henry Zebrowski]

In 2005, when the trio were around 17 years old, they attacked two 15 year old boys. This one was not caught on video. And there's been no motive discerned other than what the police called pure sadism. The three boys mercilessly beat the two smaller boys, leaving them with concussions, broken bones and permanently disfigured faces.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Ah, see I was, was like thinking it was like just like a little fun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No, they beat them. They beat him almost like within an inch of their lives.

[Marcus Parks]

God.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The parents of the beaten boys tried to bring charges against the three. In a total shocker, Igor's father intervened. The police decided not to pursue charges due to their age. They were set free, but received a stern talking to by their parents. And isn't their disappointment enough? Yeah, right. It's so much worse than when they're angry.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I'm so glad this episode ends like this. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Wow. And completed, he would though go on become the Igor would go on to become a stand up in Ukraine and eventually the president. Then came high school graduation. As we go on to wherever.

[Kimberly Cumin]

All the time we've spent together. Remember I was the vitamin C song, right? Yeah. I was more of a third eye blind.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Can I graduate? Well, you didn't graduate well.

[Kimberly Cumin]

You could graduate high school with a 2.0. Yeah, but I did it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, you did high school.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I made it happen.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'm proud of you.

[Marcus Parks]

Hell yeah, man. You're on the same level as the new Department of Homeland Security.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Oh yeah. Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's it?

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So they drifted off with no destination, likely knowing their time as quote unquote normal citizens would soon come to an end. Victor enrolled part time the Dnepropetrovsk Iron and Steel Academy. He dabbled as a rent a cop. The Iron and Steel Academy? Yeah, he went to learn. It's like metallurgy. I think that's literally like welding.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, I know.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's Just a very welcome to the. Where they make Colossus. Yes, that's where he's from.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I just want to be normal man again.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I could make me some kind of wood food man or some kind of fluffy man. Alexander. He drifted between odd jobs. Briefly working as a pastry chef, a construction worker, but remained unemployed for most of the time. I wonder why construction worker probably should

[Kimberly Cumin]

have been great at.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean unfortunately they know he was undisciplined. Igor became immediately would be known I think on the Internet we call them a neat right. Because he just showed little interest in work or school and any form of urgency in finding a job. But his parents did buy him a day Wu Lanos as a birthday present. Known for its fuel efficiency day. Who shuttered his doors in 2002. More like it sort of absorbed into Chevy according to Grok.

[Marcus Parks]

Glad you asked Grok about day one.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's all I do.

[Marcus Parks]

They're fine cars.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They were fine and then they got. They seem to be again very good fuel efficiency. And I love a car. I love a green car.

[Kimberly Cumin]

My mom had a. You go sucked.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Bet you go slow. So this is when Igor and Victor began to inhale gore videos on the Internet in 2006-2007. Websites like gornet.com rotten.com lesbian my hat, bestgore.com snuff x.com were to use a phrase, crushing it.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

These websites hosted videos going from household and industrial actors accidents all the way to leaked torture videos from spheres of war. Homemade cartel movies depicting pyramids of bloody heads. And in my opinion Igor had the long term plan. Victor thought the gore was cool and all, but Igor watched it like it was instructional. Igor was inspired. He saw the unemotional way people were tortured and murdered. He saw the flatness of the human body as a glistening, bubbling, mechanical pile of meat. He saw the limp way the body fell. Spirit gone. Not dramatic in the movies. Subtle and so so quick.

[Marcus Parks]

You know who does death scenes better than anybody in media? South Park.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh yes.

[Kimberly Cumin]

The immediate dead.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, they just that. That little and then they're dead.

[Kimberly Cumin]

That always scared the out of me.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And yeah, south park does it better anyway.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Private Ryan does it occasionally in the first and then just so you see him get shot three times and they're just like not a human anymore. Yeah, that shit's terrifying.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Good, good acting. But there are some. It's.

[Kimberly Cumin]

It's.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He saw that viciousness, that meaninglessness and felt strong just like other before him. Igor looked into the black mirror of the laptop screen. Saw baby Nazi and embraced it.

[Kimberly Cumin]

That's what black mirror think.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes, yes. Fascism and fascism and childlike violence go hand inand. But he needed a sheep to make himself a sheep shepherd. And Victor was the perfect spineless stain to volunteer.

[Marcus Parks]

That's right. It. Don't worry. It took me like five years before I realized like oh, oh, Black mirror.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, it's the, it's the, it's the phone screen.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I didn't realize. That's cool though. Yeah, right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

British people are right sometimes I see what they're thinking every once in a while now. Ever an enterprising young man, Igor used his new gift from mommy to make money as an unlicensed taxi.

[Marcus Parks]

His green day.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Woo.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He's green Daewoo. Now I do find interesting. I had Rachel look up the concept of unlicensed taxis in Ukraine. And it's very like, it's extremely easy. It's like, it's very run of the mill. It's a part of their lives. Not many people have cars, so it's more often for people to carpool like within small towns. And actually picking up an unregistered taxi is a thing that people do quite often because before things got. Because there's no regulatory boards and the ones that were official were, were extremely expensive, so they kind of reverted to taking care of themselves.

[Marcus Parks]

But unlicensed taxi, not a fake taxi.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's licensed tax taxi, but it's still a fake taxi.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, it's just some guys like, yeah, I give you ride.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But 95% of them weren't the Hammer maniacs.

[Marcus Parks]

Sure, yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

They're the guys hanging outside the Hollywood Bowl.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was, it was all the Ubers. It happened enough. It was like enough a part of their lives. Yeah. Cuz at first I was like, what does that even mean? And I was like, oh no, it's actually was a very regular part of their lives.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, it's the guys that bother you when you go off the plane of jfk. Yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now it might have been response to his get a job or else ultimately ultimatum, but his parents were really never all that serious. Igor's new job provided perfect cover for their favorite pastime, robbing and beating people. It became a nightly ritual, attacking strangers and stealing their phones, wallets and jewelry. Often they'd pick up a passenger in a, in Igor's car, pretending to be a taxi cab, drive them out in the middle of bum nowhere, rob them, beat them and then leave them stranded.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Imagine how much money they would have made if they're like a Nicer car.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I mean they could have done a lot. And Victor got a car. They made enough money for them both to have a car and then both of them are pooling the money and then they buy a truck and the next thing you know that's a transpo unit. Next thing you know they're working for the brand new show business entity that have taken over in Romania.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I don't think these guys had foresight.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No. I don't even think they had two sites. So Igor and Victor, they didn't need the money as their parents were willing to provide them with whatever they desired. They did it for fun. Alexander on the other hand, he began to get cold feet. He didn't come from wealth or family

[Kimberly Cumin]

connections or who had shoes to keep his feet warm.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Right. Is this been always a problem? I'll kill you. He was lower class in Igor or Victor. If he got caught, his life was, was over. It would not get his get out of jail free card like the other boys. After two brutal armed robberies on March 1, 2007, Alexander finally felt extremely uneasy enough about all the reckless assaults that he would later admit he finally broke away from them. Before the murders officially began, I had a bit of a hard time and researchers tracking down what the actual very first murder was.

[Marcus Parks]

It's always a problem with serial killers. Not all. Well, not always always, but a lot of times, yeah. You just don't know because it's hard because.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because one side is. There's some official stuff. There's a bunch of chaotic stuff in the reporting. And then also like you have to listen to these two maniacs fucking version of the story.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, that's the whole Ted Bundy that like the only living survivor, you know, you have to trust them or you choose to trust them.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Can I ask a weird technical question, please. Are these guys serial killers or spree killers?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, that's a very good. Honestly it's a very good question. I would go straight up to serial killer because of how long it was. But the style. It's like a serial killers that used spree killing.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, like.

[Marcus Parks]

Well, I mean the def. Definition of a serial killer normally has a sexual component.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Sometimes, not all.

[Marcus Parks]

Not always. But it's two or more murders with a cooling off period in between.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And these guys, they did have cooling off periods.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well they got caught in basically their only cooling off period. So we don't know whether or not it was just going to go right back to it or not. Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Also it's like if they would have been able to get guns. They probably would have been spree killers.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, because they would have just been

[Kimberly Cumin]

a one and gun situation.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, ye. It's funny technically what you just said, but also they, they just. They talked about how easy it would have been for them if they had guns. And they were really very lamented. They. They were very sad. They couldn't get their hands on some stuff. They should have came to America.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So the first murder that would become their standard method occurred early in June of 2007. Igor and Victor picked up a young man and a woman in their makeshift taxi. It was the middle of the. The day. Most of their other crimes were done at night. They took them way out of town outside where they normally operate, driven by the what they call these sets of complications. Igor and Victor freaked out after robbing and beating them within an inch of their lives in broad daylight. They worried the victims had had a clear view of their face or the car. Things that they could have planned for. Unless the plan was to murder them from the beginning. Eliminating the witnesses was the next logical step. They claimed they were found beaten to death on the side of the road due to haphazard investigation. These would not be included as part of the official kill count. I'll get into the issues with the local police later on. There are many, many during the pre trial phase, the boys would actually claim that there was a previous murder. They said that they were sitting on a fence near a branch of McDonald's the previous November when they decided to rob a drunk punk guy. Igor hit him in the back of the head with a rock and went through his pockets.

[Marcus Parks]

I felt the skull burst.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He said he died, he died, he died like filthy.

[Marcus Parks]

Like you know, when you bite in

[Henry Zebrowski]

the parole game, the filthy Polish. Now we see problem.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Like to see Ukrainians got pierogies too,

[Marcus Parks]

but Polish ones are filthy.

[Kimberly Cumin]

They are there filled with dirt.

[Marcus Parks]

Literally.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But it's good. It's good dirt. The first.

[Marcus Parks]

I do love Ukrainian food.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I do. I honestly, I do too.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Shout out to vca.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Also Carma.

[Marcus Parks]

Carxma is Polish.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But how different is the foods?

[Kimberly Cumin]

Not much different.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I side stories lpgmail.com the first, what they call the counted murder was a policeman named Vadim Bodam. He had taken his girlfriend to a recreational center on the evening of June 24, 2007 in Soviet Ukraine recreation center too. Leaving a taxi, he hailed Igor's green day. Woo. Death.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Can we call it a slay? Woo.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And how do people know? Was it like did they paint taxi on the sign.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, what they do is like, honestly, I guess they watch for you driving and they'll pull over and ask you, do you want to ride?

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

People just standing on the side of the road. World's different over there. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's very loose. And they also. It's extremely small town and everybody knows each other. And it's also because I think at the time, because things had fallen apart on the top side. Like on the federal level, things were falling apart.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

On the local level, people were sort of forced to take care of each other.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Also, I imagine it's horrible because how many people got bludgeoned to death and were just left out in the middle of nowhere and they couldn't find who did it? It makes me feel like there's probably. Probably just happened occasionally.

[Henry Zebrowski]

The thing is that so many were found in this single run, so many bodies were found that it's. I don't know if there. If they could have killed more like literally, I don't know if the boys could have killed more people even in the time period they had.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because they killed so many people in such a short amount of time. At first, police treated this as a car accident and not like, not that he had been robbed because he wasn't robbed. He'd still had his wallet in his pocket. His skull was deformed and his. He was right next to a road, making it possible he was struck many times by a tiny car directly on his face.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. Very similar. After a more thorough investigation of the scene, blood stains were found on the grass and it became clear that it was a homicide. Detectives rounded up Vadim's friends, got his timeline for the night, minus 2:20 minutes. They also heard about the green Daewoo for the very first time. This clue would sit unread in a report until after Igor and Victor got arrested. There were lots of issues with the local police. I can clumsily sum them up or I can insert our brilliant researchers explanation.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Clumsy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, okay. I'll do a club Z. Oh, brave Schnev. All right. Lack of funding. Truly's lack of funding. Because of the up top right. Which create. Which created a brain drain because they couldn't pay the cops. So the good cops left, took over by corrupt cops. And the corrupt cops came into play because they would take money on the side to do crimes while also being a police officer. So it was like a whole thing because you're not paying them enough to be good cops. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

And I think another thing with the corrupt Cops is. If they find a murder like this, a very violent murder, I think it's. A lot of times it is in their best interest to not pursue it, because if they start pursuing it, who knows where it's going to lead? Of course, might lead them directly to, say, a mob boss, you know, someone who. They're on their direct payroll. They see murder someone, oh, this guy got beat to death with a hammer. Who usually kills people like that. Who usually kills people really brutally.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's like an angry man crime.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Organized crime.

[Kimberly Cumin]

To kill me and my family.

[Marcus Parks]

Exactly. So let's just say tiny car.

[Kimberly Cumin]

It's interesting because, like, you bring that up because I. There's a great Chris Rock bit that I always go back to when I hear about this is like, he always talks about how he thinks cops should be paid more because we get what we pay for.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, sure.

[Kimberly Cumin]

You know, and it's like, of course they're corrupt and doing everything because they need to be.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. I mean, it's. They needed to survive in this world in their own perverse way. And it's also. There's a lot of blowing out here. They also. There's kind of like a Soviet concept of the ideology of communism. Also puts this whole thing on top of the investigation because they believe that serial murder is impossible in a socialist society. They think that it only happens in

[Kimberly Cumin]

capitalism because then you got to kill everybody.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he was a friend. But that's like.

[Marcus Parks]

That's why Andre Chikatilo got a body count of what, 53.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Because for so long, they refused to believe that this man was murdering people in the Soviet Union. And they just didn't investigate. They didn't put it together.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Because this is of all of these things make it super fucking complicated what's going on.

[Marcus Parks]

This is not Soviet. Like, this isn't Soviet era anymore. But still, that thought it's been in

[Henry Zebrowski]

there, nothing really changed because I found it interesting because Rachel showed me it was. Because it was a nonviolent revolution, because it was an actual election. And they all stayed. They also had no way of, like, kicking out all the bad guys that were in charge. So, yeah, sure, we changed everything. We changed the flags and we changed the uniforms, but it's the same guys. Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

And these killers, they were Ukrainian, but the way they killed people, it almost seemed like they were Russian.

[Henry Zebrowski]

But then shouldn't people take more time with what they like? The night of June 25, 2007, would mark the beginning of their highly concentrated reign of terror. The first victim of the night was 33 year old professor named Yakaterina Ichilchenko. After dinner with her mother and her best friend at home, Yekaterina offered to walk her friend the short distance home. Her mother would do the dishes and go to sleep. When she awoke at 4.30am, her mother checked Yekaterina's bed only to find it empty. That's when she came upon a group of older women standing outside her home. Around her daughter daughter's body, Yakaterina lay in a pool of blood, her hands up as if protecting herself from something. But as Natalia told reporters, there was

[Marcus Parks]

no face, only parts of it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

There's nothing funny about that goddamn thing. Funny about it. After walking her friend home, Yakatrina had returned immediately. She was less than 100 meters from home when she came upon the two young men hiding amongst the trees. Igor spun around, struck her on the side of the head with a hammer he had hidden in a plastic bag. The blow killed her instantly, but Igor continued to hit her with the hammer until there was practically no face left at all. They stole her cell phone and ran away, giggling into the night. Pumped with adrenaline, the boys wanted to kill again as soon as as possible. Two hours later, they saw 35 year old Roman Tatatorovich drunkenly passed out on a park bench, right across the street from the local prosecutor's office. Igor attacked him, bringing the hammer down on him over and over again until every bone in his face was crushed. You would be discovered by unsuspecting early morning walkers.

[Kimberly Cumin]

The worst kind of walkers.

[Henry Zebrowski]

All right, keep your head on the swivel, walkers. After Roman, they attempted one more murder to round out the night. 58 year old Victor Pertsev was standing outside his housing estate. They began hitting him, but a woman saw through the window of a nearby hair salon and started screaming. This scared the boys away, so Pertsev was left in a pool of blood, but alive.

[Marcus Parks]

The giggling is what's interesting to me because they do, they give off very much a vibe, almost like a Beavis and Butthead vibe. But of course they've never seen Beavis and Butt, which is, that's what's fascinating about it because they have no idea what Beavis and Butthead is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

When I rewatched three guys, one hammer, the thing that, that really does stick with me, and I'll start it with the second episode, is the idea of like. It's the joy. Yeah, it's the joy they have. It's the true utter total excitement. They were just. This is their favorite thing. They are living their Dreams.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Like, this was in a Jeffrey Dahmer thing. They didn't have to psych themselves up. This was the fun part.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I just imagine they had to have been covered in blood.

[Henry Zebrowski]

You. There's a whole thing on that. There's a whole thing on that. Oh, yes. Yes, they were. Six days later, July 1, 2007. The second full night of Hammer murders. They drove 20 miles out of town to Novomoskovsk for a change in scenery. There they found their next two victims, Yevgenia Grishchenko and Nikolai Surchuk. Very little is known about the victims or direct details of the incident itself, but they were bludgeoned so brutally with a hammer or pipe that their skulls were split open. Five dead days later, July 6, 2007. Three victims in one night, all in close proximity during the day. Victor, he had spent some QT with an unnamed girlfriend until Igor called him for their murder date. This is one of the factors that shows me that they were not helpless, like little nerds. No. All right. Because at this time, they're like. They're eight, they're 18, 19. And just like their American prototypes, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, they were. Somehow they had. They were nerds, right? But somehow they had girlfriends and money and all this. All of this shit.

[Marcus Parks]

Now, Harrison Klebold, they were into things that nerds enjoy, but that does not make one a nerd.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No. No.

[Kimberly Cumin]

So you tell me the Hammer maniacs had girlfriends?

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

That's crazy to me. Honestly. That's wild.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He just. I think that in the. When I was looking at that, imagine

[Kimberly Cumin]

just going on a date to the mall, buying your girlfriend something, and then later that night, dropping her off at home, and then going in your day wood to pick up your boy, then just bludgeoning people to death with all night, pretending like it didn't happen, and then kissing her again tomorrow at school.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Hey, he was at work.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. I mean, and the distance between these murders, I mean, it's kind of a combination of speed killing and serial killing. But for them, it's like. It really, like. I don't even know if, like, spree killing really applies, because they just want more. They just want more all the time. Give it to me again. Give it to me again.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, and I think killing normally has, like, a point.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, there's usually like. There's. There's. They're doing it for some reason. And I think it really is the difference between, like, one person being a serial killer and two people being a serial killer together. Because if you Got a buddy turning you and going, you want to do another one? Like, a person alone might say, no.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They're daring each other.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. First, it's like being in a bar and a buddy saying, your buddy says, want one more drink? Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And you're like, so first was a young soldier recently discharged from the military. Yeager. No. He came home late after an idiot with friends. His mother found him in the morning, his body lying in the front of the door, his face unrecognizable, with the rest of his skull in pieces. Right around the corner from that, they found their second victim almost immediately after the first security guard, Yelena Schramm, was walking home after finishing her shift early. She was almost home when Igor smacked her with a hammer it had hidden under her shirt. As soon as she was within striking range, as with the other victims, Igor continued to hammer her while she was on the ground. Igor and Viktor took the clothes from the bag Yelena was carrying to clean the hammer of her blood. Later, Yelena's mother would say, there was

[Marcus Parks]

not a part of her that was not destroyed. When we arrived at the morgue, we could not recognize her.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Thank you, Smaggle. Yelena's sister had to rely on her clothes, hands, and her hair to identify her. And directly down the street would become victim number three, Valentina Hansa. No relation. Valentina would befall the same exact fate as Yelena.

[Kimberly Cumin]

So, all right, so what are we up to now? Like, that's like 10 kids, like, 10 murders almost.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Right now, this is at. This will be seven murders.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Okay.

[Henry Zebrowski]

This will be seven over three nights.

[Kimberly Cumin]

And not including the first person that

[Henry Zebrowski]

they later not include.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Donald.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No. Or the other two. So technically, could be 10.

[Marcus Parks]

Wow.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. No, it is. It's a lot. And it's like, that's a part of why this. When. As soon as I started getting into this case, I think at first we all thought maybe the three guys, one hammer thing was just like a moment. Yeah. I think that's how I thought of it.

[Marcus Parks]

I thought of it, too, until we started getting into it. I didn't know that they killed any more than just one person. I know it's a massive serial.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I did not know that. It was a whole life of it, of. Of a young life of it.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Did they film all of them or just a couple of them?

[Henry Zebrowski]

It seems that what they did did was a lot of pictures, and then they're ones that we know that there are videos of, were shown in court. So they did mostly pictures of animal torture. That kitten Video. There's apparently a couple of other videos. Logic. Most of that was pictures. Then there's the famous video. Then they think there's at least four more videos. But some of them were attacks and not murders. One of them was. That will be shown in court. They did video of a woman that survived the attack.

[Marcus Parks]

There was also another video of a murder they showed in court as well. It was on that Chilean documentary.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. Yes.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

It's almost like they needed the third person to hold the camera.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, they did a selfie. They. Well, part of it was them talking about how difficult would be to murder with one hand.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah. And by this point the third guy is already off.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he's gone.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah, he's out of it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah, he's got. But who knows, maybe they were looking for a third. Truly. The following day, July 7, 2007, two children, 13 year old Andrew Andrei Sudik and 14 year old Vadim Lyakov, woke up extra early to go fishing. It was 3am still dark outside when they sat out on their bikes. They pedaled along the Dnieper River. A green Daewoo taxi stopped. What? Slay woo, I think. Sorry, the slay woo? Yes. It stopped a short distance ahead of them and Victor got an. Igor got out of it. Standing to the side of the dark row with their backs to the approach approaching boys. The two young boys decided to try and pedal past the menacing figures as quickly as possible. But as they approached Victor and Igor, they turned and swung heavy pipes filled with sand knocking them off their bikes. Andre was immediately knocked unconscious. But 14 year old Vadim quickly got up and started running. Vadim knew these woods. He'd been playing in them since he could walk. He managed to hide amongst the trees even while being frantically searched for by by Victor. Eventually Victor returned to Igor, still pounding the prone boy's body with the pipe. He got Igor to leave the scene, albeit reluctantly. Vadim lay in the dirt until he was sure his attackers were gone and he went to his young friend's side. Andre was still breathing. He was trying to talk, but it came out as unintelligible gurgling. Vadim tried to stem some of the bleeding with his T shirt and place his his jacket under Andre's head for comfort before heading to a busier road to try and flag someone down for help. Finally a car stopped for the blood spattered kid and agreed to take the boys to the hospital. Andre was pronounced dead on arrival. Can't believe it. Finally the police are here. They could go and they could chase These maniacs, because they're fresh off the case, are right there. But no, instead they immediately pin their murder on 14 year old Vadim.

[Kimberly Cumin]

God damn it.

[Henry Zebrowski]

So this is the thing. They immediately took this child. Right? Because they were just like, you did it. You're the one. They pulled him into an interrogation room for days. They threatened him with detention and notorious Ukrainian child prison. Child prison, child prison. I looked it up, I was just like. Because he tried to call it like a juvenile center and then you look at it and it's just a castle. It's an evil castle.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Right.

[Henry Zebrowski]

They finally let him go when they couldn't beat a confession out of the child. But it wasn't for lack of trying. Vadim provided the police with descriptions of the two hammer wielding teenagers and was finally released to his mother. Only after she threatened to go to the public prosecutor.

[Marcus Parks]

No, no, no. Hammers are for building things. You do not kill people with hammers. Obviously you are murdered.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What are these friends? Some kind of piece of wood, these friends? Some kind of cantaloupe.

[Kimberly Cumin]

We all know how crazy fishermen are.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Now you figure by this point there would have been a major investigation. Eight people murdered, same method, all within 20 kilometers of each other another two weeks. But there wasn't. Authorities refused to link the crimes together, essentially boiling it down to a series of wrong place, wrong time incidences. The problem was their faces were there when the hammers were swinging down. And yes, I understand that it is their fault. Fault, yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

It's the problem with Ukraine. There's always just hammers flying through the air at all times.

[Henry Zebrowski]

What am I supposed to do? Keep faces out of all my hammers?

[Kimberly Cumin]

I will say they were usually, if you're looking for like someone, like they all have the same type of victim. Right. Like it's always like a woman or a gay guy, you know, it's always. But this is like they're just killing randomly.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's crimes of opportunity. But there really was. There is a through line in the fact that it is vulnerable people. It is people alone. It's gets people old. Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

It's not big guys that. That could take them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

No.

[Marcus Parks]

And all of their faces are smashed. Yeah. There's a hint.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And they're attacking them by surprise.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

So I guess there was like a military guy and a cop.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yes. But they got him by surprise. He was hammered. Both of them were hammered too. They look for drunk guys as well.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Double hammered.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. Wow. See, there was no announcement about the murders or the potential dangers of spree killers. Still on the loose. But word spread among the local locals that two psychos were running around hammering people to death with total impunity. It was the community that coined the title the Den Profit ROV Maniacs. However, it looked like the pressure finally had built up enough that the police could no longer ignore what was happening in Dipro. I think it was because literally he started killing kids.

[Marcus Parks]

Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And once they killed a kid and they went through all of this and tortured a kid and beat the out of a kid in order to try to extract a confession from them, they realized we might want to do something about it.

[Kimberly Cumin]

About this. Yeah.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Not in America, though. We love when kids get killed.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's our favorite. It's our favorite. I say three people just throw them at guns. Throw them at the guns. See the similarities of the crimes, the close proximity and the new details from Vadim describing two young men with hammers and a green daywoo started to turn up the heat. Facti, a Polish news organization, was actually the first to report on similar crimes in Dona Propitrovsk on July 2nd 17th. They didn't go all the way to call them serial killings yet. That would take the big premiere. And that's where we'll pick up next week with an incredible behind the scenes look at the making of Igor. And Victor's number one hit, three guys, one hammer will put him on the map and into the hearts of minds children everywhere. With the conclusion on our series about the Hammer Maniacs.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Thank you, KC Case.

[Marcus Parks]

And that's the baby are Victor's number

[Henry Zebrowski]

one hit, three guys, one hour. Put him on the map and into

[Marcus Parks]

the hearts and minds of children everywhere.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Let's take it way back when all the way to 2008 with those three guys and that one silly little hammer.

[Kimberly Cumin]

And later, we have a ticket giveaway for better than Ezra.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, thank you for letting me lead this.

[Marcus Parks]

No, this has been great. This has been really fun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It was interesting. Yeah.

[Marcus Parks]

It's given me an opportunity to really work on the next no Dogs in Space series.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Our new head on Mount Rushmore of evil.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Oh, God, yes.

[Marcus Parks]

No word then. And it is. And what a famous head it is.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Oh, it is an interesting shaped one, isn't it?

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, it is indeed. But you know, it's. It's nice that we got like the little bit of synchronicity that we had with this one is I don't have to worry about who clavicular is, you know, about this whole thing.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Have you heard about this? Oh, no. You need to get back to Work. Yeah, yeah. You need to be writing scripts. You should be on social media.

[Marcus Parks]

No, I'm not on social media. This is just something that. It's been a huge story though.

[Henry Zebrowski]

He just a model.

[Marcus Parks]

He's the looks maxing guy.

[Henry Zebrowski]

That's a model.

[Marcus Parks]

He's been smashing his own face with a hammer recently. I haven't read any of the stories and I don't know what any of it's about. I just know that a man named Clavicular is smashing his own face with a hammer.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Why doesn't he finish the job?

[Kimberly Cumin]

Clavicular Manslaughter.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Cute. That could be his album, dude.

[Kimberly Cumin]

It also makes this topical.

[Marcus Parks]

Yes, it does.

[Henry Zebrowski]

And that's all we do here. All we do here. Act Accidental synchronicities. It doesn't matter, dude. Go to patreon.com lastpodcast on the left. Pay for ad free episodes and to see last stream on the left live every Tuesday, 5pm BST.

[Marcus Parks]

Ah, we have changed the time officially to 5pm oh, you want to watch the stream live? Yeah. So it's a little better for you east coasters out there.

[Henry Zebrowski]

It's better frost old. We get to eat because we're sick of being hangry during the streams.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a bastard.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah.

[Kimberly Cumin]

All right, so we're ready to come and go eat.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I'll eat your at LP on the left on your social stupid social media and go tell Clavicular to pump her show. Go to YouTube.com for all the horseshit someplace underneath. LPN Romantasy, no Dogs in Space, podcast, LPN TV, the Foreign Report, who's the Bee? And then come see us on tour. Lastpodcastleft.com for tickets.

[Kimberly Cumin]

That's right. Tonight we're gonna be in Indianapolis at the Egyptian Roo.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Come on out, you. And one Slippery noodle is going to be inside of you and me, my friend.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Really? That sounds like you're going to take

[Henry Zebrowski]

me only at the Slippery Noodle.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Then after that, April 25th, Cincinnati. May 29th, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. June 27th, Grand Rapids, Michigan. July 17th, Tulsa, Oklahoma. July 18th, Oklahoma City. And then tomorrow, tomorrow night we're going to be in the wonderful Urbana, Illinois.

[Marcus Parks]

I can't.

[Kimberly Cumin]

That's going to be Henry and I doing side stories of the Canopy Club. It's going to be a lot of fun.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're going to get chubby.

[Kimberly Cumin]

We are.

[Marcus Parks]

We are.

[Kimberly Cumin]

I made sure that they were going to get food for us.

[Henry Zebrowski]

I also got us a. A big old steakhouse reservation in indie as well. And then I got us more steak there and stuff. We're. And I'm like, supposed to get my blood done and stuff, but we're just not. I'm just going to keep pushing it off every single time there's a good restaurant.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing. So let us know. We're all the best restaurants in all your horrible towns. Are we? Can't wait to eat them.

[Henry Zebrowski]

We're gonna eat.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Yes.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Well, hail sweet Satan, everybody.

[Marcus Parks]

Oh, no, King.

[Kimberly Cumin]

Hail. You know what? Hail Rob. Well, yeah, we ain't no Rob. I don't think I've ever hailed you before. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You deserve more hails.

[Henry Zebrowski]

Yeah. You hailed him like an unlicensed taxi captain. Yes.

[Kimberly Cumin]

You're my little slay woo.

[Henry Zebrowski]

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