Good Boy: An Interview with Ben Leonberg & Indy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Last Podcast On The Left — “Good Boy: An Interview with Ben Leonberg & Indy”

Date: September 29, 2025
Hosted by: Marcus & Henry
Guests: Ben Leonberg (director), Indy (the dog star)

---

Overview

In this special “Side Stories” episode of Last Podcast On The Left, hosts Marcus and Henry dive into the bizarre and heartfelt world of dog-led horror with an interview featuring Ben Leonberg, director of the new indie horror film Good Boy, and his canine star, Indy. The trio discusses the unique challenges (and joys) of making a movie from a dog’s perspective, the emotional soul of animal-centered storytelling, practical realities of indie filmmaking, and the surprising depths of canine cinema. The mood is characteristically irreverent, funny, and enthusiastic.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Interviewing A Dog: Comic Antics and Satire

• The episode opens in comedic fashion as Marcus and Henry joke about interviewing a literal dog, Indy. They riff on canine Hollywood unions (“Are you in SAG or Wag?” at 05:07) and throw playful barbs at Indy’s silence, drawing out the absurdity of treating a dog as a film star.

  “Many people would say ... that when a broadcaster has found himself interviewing a dog, that that would be the low point of their career.”
  — Marcus (01:03)

  “Now, are you in SAG or wag? ... Well, non Union.”
  — Marcus & Henry (05:07)

2. Meet Ben Leonberg: The Director's Perspective

• After the comic dog “interview,” Ben Leonberg joins to explain the real filmmaking process with Indy. He details the logistical and emotional dynamics of shooting a film centered on a dog.

  “He refused to read a script for the entire duration of the shoot. He really doesn't understand that he's in a movie. I cannot say that enough.”
  — Ben Leonberg (06:21)

  • Leonberg and his wife did all of Indy’s training and handled nearly every aspect of production themselves (09:26).
  • Indy is a “non-traditionally trained” actor, meaning genuine dog behavior, not staged “acting,” drives the film’s emotional cues (09:50).

3. Dog-Centered Storytelling: Horror from Their POV

• The origin of Good Boy comes from the everyday anxiety of why dogs bark at nothing—tying into haunted house tropes and classic horror cinema.

  “I think we've all wondered or worried why our dog is barking or staring at nothing.”
  — Ben Leonberg (11:46)

• The film’s concept is inspired by scenes like the golden retriever in Poltergeist sensing danger before humans (13:35), and Leonberg shares how he shot shorts mimicking scenes from The Shining to experiment with canine POV storytelling (13:15).

4. Filmmaking Techniques and Homage

• Leonberg discusses emotional audience engagement: people bring an outsized emotional investment to dog-centric films. He references the “Kuleshov effect” (21:23) as the mechanism by which editing—not dog performance—tells the story.

  “We got a question all the time. How did you get Indy to look scared? And we didn't. ... He's just standing there with neutral expression. ... The performance and the emotion is coming through the edit and the audience.”
  — Ben Leonberg (21:07–22:19)

• The film pays homage with partial shot-for-shot remakes of classic sequences from notable horror films but subverts them with the unpredictability of a real dog actor.

5. Emotional Impact, Humor, and Audience Investment

• The crew addresses the universal desire not to see harm come to the movie dog, lampooning films like Marley & Me for traumatizing viewers (15:52).

• Audience instantly sides with the dog, eliminating the need for the usual “Save the Cat” screenplay trick.

  “If you make a movie with a dog, you do not need to have them save a cat. ... First frame is a dog asleep on a couch and the audience goes, aww ... They're already on his side.”
  — Ben Leonberg (28:52)

6. Filmmaking During COVID

• The film was made during the COVID pandemic, which led Ben and his wife to shoot the entire movie themselves in their own home, adapting to logistical constraints and discovering unexpected creative advantages (31:08).

7. Low Budget, High Creativity

• The team stresses how films like Good Boy show what’s possible with minimal resources but maximum heart—encouraging audiences to support indie horror to make more of these projects possible (32:58).

  “Not just that, just support, you know, like low budget horror movies as much as you can. If you go and see this movie in the theater, then more movies like this will be made because that's what the world needs right now.”
  — Henry (32:58)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dog Labor Satire: “Do you know that Ben is actually. I hate to do this. ... Not your father.”
  — Henry, riffing on dog ‘child labor laws’ (02:31)

• On Indie Filmmaking with Dogs:
  “The trick is figuring out how to make a movie around them.”
  — Ben Leonberg (06:41)

• Kuleshov Effect Simplified:
  “You have a shot of a dog looking past the camera very intently. Then you show a dark, empty corner, and the audience says, there's something there ... That dog must be terrified. He's not. He's just being himself.”
  — Ben Leonberg (21:07–22:19)

• Emotional Danger—Dog Edition:
  “If anything bad happens to the dog, I'm gonna go John Wick on the director.”
  — Ben Leonberg, relaying audience threats (15:20)

• On Voice Acting:
  “The truth is, we don't yell at him, is we replace the voice afterwards.”
  — Ben Leonberg (23:01)

• Why Visual Storytelling Works:
  “There's something about people who can just emote. Like Humphrey Bogart said, Like 12 words a movie ... where like you look at like Indy, because it's not a dog actor, because it's looking at you with genuine love.”
  — Marcus (20:08–20:54)

• On COVID Filmmaking:
  “The pandemic kind of forced our hand that we could ... The best way to make this movie was just with me, my wife and Indy. ... The house you see in the movie is where we actually lived.”
  — Ben Leonberg (31:08–31:29)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:03 – Opening banter: “career low point” jokes about interviewing a dog
• 05:07 – “SAG or Wag?” and indie dog labor jokes
• 06:21 – Ben Leonberg explains the filming process with Indy
• 09:26 – Family-run production, self-training, and authentic dog acting
• 11:46 – Ideas behind Good Boy and everyday dog mysteries
• 13:15 – Using horror iconography (Poltergeist, The Shining) as inspiration
• 15:16 – Audience emotional attachment, Marley & Me trauma
• 21:07 – The Kuleshov effect and making a dog “act”
• 23:01 – Replacing dog “dialogue” in post-production
• 28:52 – The myth of “Save the Cat” upended by canine casting
• 31:08 – COVID-19 as catalyst for small-scale, homegrown filmmaking
• 32:58 – The importance of supporting low-budget horror in theaters

---

Closing Thoughts

Good Boy is more than a clever genre twist: it’s an experiment in raw, emotional storytelling using the real responses and presence of a beloved pet at the center of a haunting narrative. Through warm humor, honest filmmaking insight, and an unshakeable love for dogs, the episode encourages listeners to rethink what a horror film (or any movie) can be when passion, limitation, and creativity combine. The conversation will resonate with indie film lovers, horror fans, and, of course, dog people everywhere.

---

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

They say if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together. At Amica Insurance, we know what matters most to you, and we work even harder to protect it together. As a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amica empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote. Today, when a cold has you down, it's the little comforts that lift you up. A warm blanket, a cup of tea, and a tissue that actually feels good on your skin. Infused with aloe Kleenex Cooling plus aloe provides a hint of cooling freshness to help your skin feel restored. So whether your skin is feeling dry, chafed, or irritated, you're only one wipe away from helping it feel relieved. The next time you have a cold, get a hint of instant cooling relief with new Kleenex cooling plus aloe. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

[Marcus]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us today on side Stories. Now, many people would say. Many people, just my manager, my family, 30 people. A lot of people might say that when a broadcaster has found himself interviewing a dog, that that would be the low point of their career.

[Henry]

Absolutely.

[Marcus]

But why is it my high point?

[Henry]

I gotta say, I'm thrilled today to be joined with the wonderful. Absolutely. Good boy, Dr. Henry. Indiana Jones.

[Marcus]

It's so good to have you here. Have you been. How are you enjoying L. A?

[Henry]

Have you gone out to. Have you tried the vegan food yet?

[Marcus]

Have you been to the chateau?

[Henry]

Ooh, you would do great at the chateau.

[Marcus]

Have you gone to the chateau? Because honestly, I feel like that's like one of those things where the scene at the chateau would suit you.

[Henry]

Yeah, it would really. You would look good there. You would be good there. And if you wanted to, you can go to the bathroom and call it the shitto.

[Marcus]

Nothing. Huh? Wow.

[Henry]

So nothing on that. I do puns.

[Marcus]

Your father, Ben Leonberger, directed this film. Do you feel that he in many way, sort of. I don't know. Because your dog might have skirted around some of the child labor laws.

[Henry]

Yeah. Do you know that Ben is actually. I hate to do this.

[Marcus]

What?

[Henry]

Not your father.

[Marcus]

Don't do this.

[Henry]

No, I mean, but he's not. I mean, obviously you're a dog and he's a man and you're not his son.

[Marcus]

Ben is the father that stepped up. Yeah. So how do you feel about your stepfather? So tell me, when you first got this script, how did you choose it? Was it one of those where, like, you know, You've been auditioning for years, and you're like, finally, like, this is me. I'm in this film. Right. Or is it just because you needed the money?

[Henry]

Yeah. And were you not willing to put on the. The weight for Beethoven?

[Marcus]

Nothing. Jesus Christ.

[Henry]

Nothing, huh?

[Marcus]

You know, I don't know whether or not you're being paid by big government to be silenced.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

But you gotta understand that part of your job as an actor is to do promo. Okay?

[Henry]

Yeah. You got to hit the road. You got to get out there and talk to people about your movie, or no one's gonna go see it.

[Marcus]

Nobody's gonna see it unless you press it. You know, this is like when. When we try to have Billy Bob Thorton. Yeah. We had Billy Bob Thorton in one time, and he literally showed up dressed as a French mime. And he didn't speak on. And you wouldn't even know it was Billy Bob Thorton.

[Henry]

He also ate his own.

[Marcus]

Yes. Which was, like. To me, he said something was about, like, he said, human composting.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

He said that was his new diet or whatever. Have you ever met Billy Bob H. I'm just.

[Henry]

Wow.

[Marcus]

I just wonder if the silence has anything to do with some of those recent.

[Henry]

Are you in the Pupstein Files?

[Marcus]

Are you in the Pupstein Files?

[Henry]

Are you in the Pupstein Files? Answer us. Where is it?

[Marcus]

Did you take Pupstein's plane? Were you on dog lolita1? Because it's legal for you. There's no. There is no age of consent. Dogs get pregnant before they're one.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

So it's not even that big of a deal.

[Henry]

Now, now that you, like, you're an actor, do you still believe in money over bitches?

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

Now that you can get anything you want, any kind of treat that you want. Any kind of. You know, you can get heart guard sent to the house.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

You know what I mean? Like, what was your first expenditure? Yeah, I get being shy.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

He wants to appear like. You know what it is I get in a way that he wants to appear like he's still one of us.

[Henry]

I'm sure. I'm sure did. Now, are you in SAG or wag?

[Marcus]

Well, non Union.

[Henry]

None.

[Marcus]

We're gonna talk about that with Ben. Non Union.

[Henry]

That's a. Ooh.

[Marcus]

That is not a good look. Not a good look.

[Ben Leonberg]

A big no.

[Henry]

No to say, watch out for that bo.

[Marcus]

Oh, actually, no. They shot in Montana. Oh, so they don't care.

[Henry]

Interesting.

[Marcus]

Montana doesn't care. They just hoard water there.

[Henry]

They do hoard Water.

[Marcus]

Well, if you're not gonna answer our hardcore questions, I don't know what you're gonna do when you go on Access Hollywood after us.

[Henry]

Yeah. I can't believe that Good Boy is a bad dog.

[Marcus]

You're a bad dog. Bad dog. Bad boy.

[Henry]

Bad dog.

[Marcus]

Bad boy. I don't like being around you. You lie. No, don't. Don't do that. No, it's not true. You know it's not true.

[Henry]

He's very attractive.

[Marcus]

He's the handsomest person in this room. Yeah.

[Henry]

God, I bet you get all the.

[Marcus]

All right, let's try to talk to his father.

[Henry]

It's not his father. He's not your father. Die from your grave.

[Marcus]

Now, your lead actor was bit difficult at the top of the interview.

[Henry]

Yeah. What up with that?

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, I mean, he refused to read a script for the entire duration of the shoot. He really doesn't understand that he's in a movie. I cannot say that enough.

[Marcus]

It's like him, Gary Busey. When did the second chances start? You know, like, when did. Like, how often are we going to do this? These guys that don't understand you can't pee in front of everybody.

[Ben Leonberg]

You. The trick is figuring out how to make a movie around them.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

Genuinely, that's what it takes, is that, you know, Indy doesn't understand he's in a movie. So you're still talking about Gary Busey.

[Marcus]

Yeah, but. Yeah, I mean, he does.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, that might be how it works. Yeah.

[Marcus]

You're like, here, Gary, I will say, here's the tennis ball. Gary over here. Aim the choppers over here. We are sitting with the director of Good Boy, Ben Leonberg. This is a. I will say you have made a truly. It's like. It's a monument to filmmaking.

[Henry]

It really is. I'm pretty sure it's the first time this has happened.

[Ben Leonberg]

There's been a few films that are centered on dogs. There's a film, a French film called Baxter that is about a lay erbud. Yeah, well, yeah. Or Scare Bud. That's the other one I've heard.

[Marcus]

No, but.

[Ben Leonberg]

But I think having a dog be the center of a movie and be a point of view character. I think this is the way we did it is certainly unusual.

[Marcus]

Well. Cause normally I remember the horrific stories about Milo and Otis where they burned through eight pugs. They were just throwing pugs in the river and just shooting it. Why didn't you go that way?

[Ben Leonberg]

Well, Indy is my dog and he's the only dog. I mean, certainly that strategy of you have multiple dogs play the same character, which is genuinely impressive. I mean, you joke about air bud, but I watched that movie a lot, trying to, like, figure out what did they do. There's certainly things we can't do. We don't have Disney money to make this film. Yeah, but there's shots in that movie where there's six different golden retrievers playing the same dog in the same shot. It's kind of, like, incredible.

[Henry]

It's very impressive. Now, the. Was like, did you have to worry about, like, the Humane Society or anything? Like, when the movie came out, we're like, did you have to, like, prove that you didn't do anything wrong or.

[Ben Leonberg]

I mean, we.

[Henry]

Obviously you didn't, but.

[Ben Leonberg]

Well, we did all of Indy's training ourself, and I think there's been, like, an enormous amount of interest in the question of not even Indy, how we made the movie. It's just, does his character make it through the film? Does the dog die? There's a whole website dedicated to this, and we've been. We've been trending there. But no, I mean, we did all of Indy's training ourself, and I think that's part of why the film seems so unique. It was certainly not a normal production, and I think that's why his performance stands out. This is not a dog who's clearly acting for treats or for a tennis ball. That's just off camera.

[Marcus]

Yeah, dude. We just saw an example of it as our. I. I don't know if you noticed. The beginning of this interview was set up right. We. We did it like a funny thing. I know, I know.

[Henry]

Bad boy.

[Marcus]

But we got a little taste of what the process was like filming with Indy. And to be honest, it was kind of like. It was really just genuine, like. But you could see that it definitely. You really have to be patient and in love with the dog.

[Henry]

Yes.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, for sure. People ask, like, you know, how our relationship to Indy changed over the course of the film. I don't think we could love Indy anymore. And, you know, it was just me and my wife on set for the entire duration of the film, figuring out how to make this movie around him. So all those little tricks of how can we get something from him that, when put into the juxtaposition of all the other shots, will look like a performance.

[Marcus]

So it was kind of like we were joking about the idea that it was like, boyhood or one of those things.

[Ben Leonberg]

Good. Boyhood.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

Good boy. You guys are just capturing it when you can.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah. So Indy, he's not a traditionally trained dog actor, which I'm not even sure what that really means.

[Marcus]

Well, you could almost tell in a way. It's kind of like, you know, when you got like a kid that they just pull off the street who's ends up being an amazing actor versus, like, what they do to children in the entertainment mill.

[Ben Leonberg]

Sure.

[Marcus]

There's like. There's something deeply more vulnerable about Indy's performance. Performance in this movie than other animal performances.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah. I mean, he can only be himself. So at times, you know, I think his two superpowers, or at least that you see in the film the way we made it, is that he's genuine. He's himself. He has this relationship with the human act. The human character, Todd, who I stand in as Todd's body, an actor, does the performance a la. Like Darth Vader, like James Earl Jones giving the voice to Darth Vader. To be very clear, Shane Jensen, who plays Todd, plays Todd. I'm on camera talking to Indy, which are in lines that are not the movie. But when I say the superpower we have is that, you know, there's scenes of genuine love and affection between Todd and Indy, which are real because Indy really loves me and he's my actual dog.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

So that's so cute.

[Marcus]

It's like when they put what's his name with. With Sidney Sweeney and then they start an affair. You know what I mean? Like they put him in with a Glen Powell. Like it's like one of those things. Like the chemistry is real. Yeah, you know.

[Ben Leonberg]

Exactly.

[Marcus]

That's so fun. It's like. It's just so. Well, obviously we were talking right before. Anybody who has a dog, kind of like you've experienced this. The dog's barking at nothing. It creeps you out. You stone late at night. What the hell? How does such a relatable idea, like in that term, like, what made you finally decide I'm going to make this movie?

[Ben Leonberg]

I mean, it came from exactly what you're talking about. I think we've all wondered or worried why our dog is barking or staring at nothing.

[Henry]

Turns out in my house it was rats.

[Ben Leonberg]

Wait. Probably usually is.

[Marcus]

Yeah, Froggers. Like people living in the wall.

[Ben Leonberg]

Froggers. I love that term. No, I just, I. I'm very familiar with the idea that people could be living inside your house. But no, that's a new one.

[Marcus]

Yeah. Put that in a little fear file.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, that's great.

[Henry]

It'll be your next movie.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, yeah. I mean that actually. I mean, if a dog Found out there were people living inside your house, and those people were being, you know, treating the dog just fine. Yeah, that's a. That's an interesting point of view. Dog story.

[Marcus]

It really is just like, stop talking.

[Ben Leonberg]

That's a good idea.

[Marcus]

Well, yeah. Continue. Yeah. So, like. But why was this the one like. Because you've made a lot of short films.

[Ben Leonberg]

Indeed, I made a lot of short films. I mean, even that was part of the process of figuring out how I was going to make this movie. We made several shorts kind of just exploring that idea of a dog staring at nothing. I think the single most origin story idea I have is watching Poltergeist for probably the millionth time, if you remember, there's a golden retriever wandering through the house. Clearly onto that a haunting is about to start before the humans get the idea, which is just a cinematic version of that anxiety we all have about why is our dog staring at nothing, figuring out how to actually do it. We have the idea, but then what does that script even look like? Because it's not driven by dialogue or even the same kind of action that, you know, propels a normal script.

[Marcus]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

So what I first started doing was making these short films that were originally just based on existing scenes. I recreated the room 237 scene with Danny from the Shining of a ball. Rolls up, and then Danny looks up, goes to investigate the room, the doors open. I shot a version of that in my backyard in Queens with Indy, where I was just trying to figure out how does that filmmaking work? How do you match the eye line? How do you get the camera to tell the story through shots with this very otherwise neutral character. We kept making these shorts where I was learning how to make a film around Indy, because, again, he really does not know he's in a film.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

One of them, which was based on a scene you see in the film. One of our jump scares won a short film contest. Indy was nominated for best actor, which. Against other humans.

[Henry]

Amazing.

[Ben Leonberg]

Which is a tough beat.

[Marcus]

Hey, you know, what are you gonna do? You know, I've been beaten by a lot of different things. And why not? Honestly, I'd prefer to be beaten by a dog.

[Henry]

Hey, Jody Foster was nominated for Nell. You know, there you go.

[Marcus]

Shoe is Reagan now.

[Henry]

Yeah, but she didn't speak.

[Marcus]

Nope.

[Ben Leonberg]

But anyway, that really, you know, that kind of forced our hand once, you know, people are calling out Indy's dog acting as a reason to watch this thing. We were like, well, we need to work with this particular dog.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

And by then, we'd kind of figured out what our story was gonna be, how we were gonna take the classic haunted house trope and spin it into a full feature.

[Marcus]

It's very emotionally intense.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah. I mean, I think it was funny because I worked with a co writer throughout the whole film, Alex Cannon, and we were always trying to thread the needle of, this is a horror movie first. We didn't need to do a lot to kind of play on people's emotions. People bring that to the film themselves.

[Marcus]

Oh, yeah. Indy's like that. Indy's like a Zendaya.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

Indy's bringing that thing where people are ready to cry. Like, I'm afraid to show this movie to my wife because of how emotionally, like, overwhelmed she's gonna be just watching the dog. And nothing bad happens to the dog. I mean, it. Nothing bad happens to the dog.

[Henry]

You're supposed to say spoiler first.

[Marcus]

We all. No one wants anything bad to happen to the dog.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, right. Universally, yes. No one wants anything bad happen to the dog. There are comments, which I'm very glad you know, look, people are watching the trailer saying, if anything bad happens to the dog, I'm gonna go John Wick on the director. So I'm very aware of, like, the personal risks here.

[Marcus]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

In the filmmaking, that was, like, the.

[Marcus]

One had to promise Natalie being like, I just want you to understand, there is no.

[Henry]

Hmm.

[Marcus]

How do I put this man with a soul or conscience that would make a dog film starring the dog that would then murder the dog.

[Ben Leonberg]

Although I've just become aware that people are still scarred by Marley and me.

[Marcus]

Oh, dude, that movie's fucked up.

[Ben Leonberg]

There's people, I mean, who are like, I'm not so sure I can see. Good boy. Because Marley and me killed the dog. Which is just based on a true story. Dude.

[Marcus]

They kill that dog over and over again. That dog gets killed. It's, like, electrocuted. Just like, oh, it's like, what about Bob with the dog wants to see this?

[Henry]

Was that the movie about, like, the.

[Marcus]

Dog dies a bunch of times, Keeps going.

[Ben Leonberg]

Oh, no, that's. That's a dog's life.

[Marcus]

That's a dog's life.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Henry]

Marley and Marley and me is the other one.

[Marcus]

No, but dog's life is the one where. Yeah, it's like, one. Yeah, the other one. Get. Dog gets thrown into a threshing machine. I mean, finds another.

[Henry]

Oh, that's a great question for you. Do you think a dog has a soul?

[Ben Leonberg]

I mean, well, wow. I've never put it that way. I Mean, people have asked you all dogs go to heaven. I mean, certainly. I mean, I think dogs are better people than most people.

[Henry]

Yes.

[Ben Leonberg]

So I don't know if that answers your question, but yes. I mean dogs are. Yes, Dogs are wonderful.

[Marcus]

Man.

[Ben Leonberg]

I don't know. I don't think so.

[Henry]

Just curious.

[Ben Leonberg]

No, I, I feel like the. My brain says no, but my heart says yes. Which I don't know what to make sense of that.

[Marcus]

But that's because life would be cooler if it was true.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yes. It'd be much better if ghosts were real and many other things were real. But yeah.

[Marcus]

Yeah, it would be.

[Henry]

So if ghosts are real, then dog ghosts can be real, right?

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Henry]

I'd love to get haunted by a bunch of dogs.

[Marcus]

Yeah, of course you would.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

I mean, you're already trying. You have an 18 year old dog, you have a dog ghost.

[Henry]

I have an octogenarian dog at home.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Henry]

He's seen a lot of death.

[Marcus]

Yeah.

[Henry]

Also it's a. It's outlived three dogs and two humans.

[Ben Leonberg]

Have you noticed your dog noticing anything that you can't explain?

[Henry]

A dog doesn't notice anything.

[Ben Leonberg]

Okay.

[Henry]

I could barely get it to eat.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

It's very crazy. It continues to live when you're making this. So now. But I guess it's nice because you're getting a lot of like attention. People are ready for the movie. But you started like you're a film teacher.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, so when I'm not making films. Yeah.

[Marcus]

What an incredible like.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, I'm a player coach.

[Marcus]

But like talk about a way for even like now your students, like, obviously you get to be like peace, peace school. I mean, you mean, who knows what the future hold. But, but the idea of like what an incredible way to exhibit storytelling with images.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, look, and it works really well with the kind of films that I use for teaching and this film, which I certainly love, films that are driven by dialogue. But I teach directing using Psycho as like. We're just going to be talking about Psycho a ton. You know, how does the shot progression and you know, the framing and the small little changes of blocking, how does that ratchet tension. That's exactly what I'm applying to. Good boy. So much of the performance isn't coming from Indy, who I cannot say enough does not know he's in a movie.

[Marcus]

He does it. He's looking for tennis balls.

[Ben Leonberg]

I love. Yeah, exactly.

[Henry]

Because Gus Van Sant's a genius.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yes, absolutely. Shot. Well, shot for shot.

[Marcus]

My favorite films, Psycho.

[Ben Leonberg]

So you Know what's kind of funny, though, is that, I mean, so that's a shot for shot remake that I don't think, you know, it does not iterate a lot. There are entire sequences of Good Boy that are homages or in some cases, shot for shot remake of existing setups. Jump scares, you know, tension building sequences.

[Henry]

Can you give us an example or you don't want to?

[Ben Leonberg]

Well, I can, but I almost like want people to find them.

[Marcus]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

And I will say, because I had to film it with a dog, just taking that blueprint indie as a new ingredient changes it so much. But there are sequences where I'm definitely pulling from this. Worked before with humans. Let's add dog. And what you get is so different. Just because he's an enormous X factor according to him. Like, he's here.

[Marcus]

The truth is that it's like having one of those. It's like. It's truly the difference between like a movie star and just some actor. You know what I mean? I usually. I've been watching nothing but Criterion movies recently. It's ruining me. Yeah, I should stop.

[Henry]

I don't see Good Boy getting on Criterion. They got the donkey movie on there.

[Marcus]

But I mean it. But like, in terms of. But there's a distinct line that runs between Good Boy and what you did. And a lot of those movies, which is those movies, remember the old movies, remember that there was something about storytelling in and of itself that you can tell what's going on even if it was silent. Totally kind of feel what's going on. You know, what's happening. It's not necessarily. It's like the dialogue helps, but there's something about people who can just emote. Like Humphrey Bogart said, Like 12 words a movie.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

Himself stood for so much where like you look at like Indy, because it's not a dog actor because it's looking at you with genuine love. It's doing the thing that a real movie star does well.

[Ben Leonberg]

And the other thing I've realized, especially about movie stars, Humphrey Burgart's a great example for this because you're right, he stands for something. And we just kind of. He brings himself or his character to the movie, but then also he doesn't necessarily do a lot in the movie.

[Marcus]

Nothing.

[Ben Leonberg]

And we project ourselves onto him. And I think that's so much like. We got a question all the time. How did you get Indy to look scared? And we didn't. We didn't get him to do anything. He's just standing there with neutral expression. I'LL go into film professor mode again, please, which is. Do you guys know the Kuleshov effect?

[Marcus]

No.

[Ben Leonberg]

All right, so there's a classic example from silent. Silent film where we're seeing a shot of a man's face who at the time was, like, a matinee star from, like, Russian theater. And it's just a shot of this guy's face. Then we see a shot of a bowl of soup. And audiences say, well, that guy must be hungry. If you say, show the same shot of that guy's face and then a shot of a coffin. And everyone's like, well, that guy must be sad. The performance and the emotion is coming through the edit and the audience putting two and two together. So in our movie, you have a shot of a dog looking past the camera very intently. Then you show a dark, empty corner, and the audience says, there's something there because they know they have their own relationship with dogs and dogs, how they work in movies. And they're saying, that dog must be terrified. He's not. He's just being himself. Probably reacting to me or my wife going off camera. And the filmmaking is telling you how to feel.

[Marcus]

That's just. I mean, that it's, like, torn down to its very basic parts.

[Henry]

I like what you're saying, but the flaw is that when I'm hungry, I'm sad.

[Marcus]

You see?

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

When I'm scared, I'm angry.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yes. Yeah.

[Marcus]

But that's different. Again, that's for therapy.

[Henry]

Dude, it was so cool watching that movie. I had a beautiful. It was beautiful. I loved everything you did. And I gotta say, the one thing I kept being like, how was he able to yell at the dog? Like, I was just like, how were you able to? Because I. You know, I feel so bad whenever I yell at my dog, you know, like. Like, it makes me.

[Marcus]

It makes me see my dogs are so used to my. To me that they don't even respond. Yeah.

[Henry]

Yes.

[Ben Leonberg]

I mean, the truth is, we don't yell at him, is we replace the voice afterwards. So there's a scene where the main character, you know, as Indy, is detecting more and more of the paranormal, and something bad is going on with his human companion. The relationship almost frays, and there are scenes of, you know, drama and intensity between the two. What's happening actually on set is I, who am standing in for the person. I'm like, good boy. And moving him around. And then an actor. And I would say, this is like. I mean, so much credit to Shane Jensen, who really plays Todd, then adds the Performance and, you know, the tension and the drama through this vocal performance with both has to fit into the scene and has to, like, feel like it needs to be a good performance.

[Marcus]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

But it also has to match the physicality of what I'm doing, which is not that. So it was like, we had to have him do versions of lines where it's like, do this line. Okay, you've got it. But now do it like you're laying in a bed and are slightly setting up. Because when I did it, I had to move to, like, tell Indy. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like. And you have to put those words into that body and chest.

[Marcus]

That's so interesting.

[Ben Leonberg]

So, like, I mean, I.

[Marcus]

That's how they just did the Toxic Adventure.

[Ben Leonberg]

Is that right?

[Marcus]

Well, that was the whole thing where they. I made it. I think it's a. I think Peter Dinklage found a way to not be in makeup all the time. But they said they held up the traditional way. The Toxic Avenger was made originally.

[Ben Leonberg]

Right. Right.

[Marcus]

Where Toxic Avenger, where Toxie was in costume and someone voice acted it on top of it. And that's where Peter Ticklage was like, no, you see, it's traditional. And then somebody else inside of all the deep gunk. And then he just did the voice on top of it, which makes a lot of sense.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

That you could see that this is a. You've done it.

[Ben Leonberg]

I mean, we've done a version of that, which is that. So Todd is mostly played by my body, which sounds like a very dissociative way to explain how the film was made and my relationship to the. To the character.

[Marcus]

It makes sense when you see the movie because it's from the perspective of the dog.

[Ben Leonberg]

Totally. Yeah. And I mean, just by virtue of the camera being 19 inches off the ground, because that's how tall he is.

[Marcus]

It's multiple.

[Ben Leonberg]

I love that you got the Muppet Babies. Some people say Charlie Brown, but yes, it's.

[Henry]

I was. I was at Looney Tunes, is how I saw it was like. Yeah, it's just like. Usually just the legs and stuff like that.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Which also gave us the ability to. My wife, the film's producer, who is not a. Was not a producer before this film started to be made. She's a scientist, but.

[Marcus]

Oh, shit.

[Ben Leonberg]

Turns out you can teach a scientist how to make films a lot easier than a filmmaker how to science.

[Marcus]

Yes. I'm just going to say this.

[Ben Leonberg]

It's.

[Marcus]

We like to act like it's super mysterious process.

[Ben Leonberg]

Oh. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, all us left brain people, you know, look, we can do this, but they can do this and that.

[Marcus]

They could just show up and then just do your entire job and their entire job. It's kind of crazy. So I can only do this, you know.

[Ben Leonberg]

So she occasionally stands in for Todd as well, which if you watch the movie closely, you will notice a few times Todd's jeans don't fit exactly correctly, which is because I buried her legs. Yeah. No, but the thing you're saying about, you know, a left brain, right brain split. Some of the best ideas in the movie also came from her just over the duration of making the film. One of my favorite jump scares, which I just couldn't quite figure out, she came up with just having watched me make the movie for several years, was like, what if we did it this way? And I was like, yeah, it's totally gonna work. And it's one of the best jump scares in the movie.

[Marcus]

It's just one of those. I also wonder too if like, are you guys movie heads?

[Ben Leonberg]

Yes.

[Henry]

I mean, he is of course, for.

[Marcus]

Sure, but I feel like it's one of those where most. I feel like. How do you feel about the idea of. Many of our big legendary famous filmmaker icons didn't have film school in the. And then the beginning of it was like in the 70s. That's when the film school thing really kind of started. Right.

[Ben Leonberg]

For sure.

[Marcus]

Those connections, like, do you feel like what's the distinct difference between self led. I watch a ton of movies. Education versus at a school.

[Ben Leonberg]

I mean, I think it can. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. I think you have to see a lot of movies to. I don't. I think it's possible to be a good filmmaker without going to film school for sure. But I don't know how good at filmmaking you can be if you just have not consumed tons of movies.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

Well, I think that's what we're in the middle of right now. Yeah, totally in the middle of a lot of people that are making movies that have never. They don't watch.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah. And it doesn't necessarily have to be movies. I mean, it's story in general. I mean, it's, you know, stories. I mean, people are bringing video influences from video games into, you know, movies and making things that we haven't seen before. So I think you have to consume lots of story one way or the other. I just like, just feels like a prerequisite to me.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

Like, do you feel like you. Do you. Are you one of those where you judge movies by, like, the perfect screenplay. Like. Like, how do you feel about those? Like, how do you feel about those movies that break all those rules?

[Ben Leonberg]

And I think breaking the rules, I feel like as soon as someone can write a rule about, here's how a movie is supposed to work. The moment you've figured out that can be put into a YouTube video essay or into a book. The rules probably no longer true.

[Marcus]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

And I think, like, I mean, my favorite films are the ones that break the rules. Janet Leigh should not die in the middle of Psycho. That's a sin according to, like, every screenwriting book at the time. But it's the reason that movie. One of the many reasons that movie is awesome. The thing I like to talk about in terms of, you know, the screenplay guidance books as it applies to. Good boy. Have you heard of Save the Cat?

[Marcus]

Oh, yes.

[Ben Leonberg]

So save the cat.

[Henry]

Explain it to me.

[Ben Leonberg]

So Save the Cat is the idea that to make an audience love your hero, you need to have your hero do something akin to saving a cat in the first, like, ten minutes.

[Henry]

Okay.

[Marcus]

Yeah. You gotta see his true. See the hero's good spirit and good soul in the very beginning. Even if they're kind of like a shitty guy.

[Ben Leonberg]

Exactly.

[Marcus]

You have to see a thing in them that makes them great. Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

Something like saving a cat. There's an enormous exception to that rule, which is if you make a movie with a dog, you do not need to have them save a cat. The way this film starts, in some of the film festivals we've been to, first frame is a dog asleep on a couch and the audience goes, aww, yeah. They're already on his side. Yeah. We don't need to save the cat. There's 20 minutes of movie we just don't need. Let's just start, dude.

[Marcus]

And honestly, it works. Yeah. It's an hour 13 minutes long.

[Henry]

Was it 79 minutes?

[Ben Leonberg]

70. Just under 74 minutes, dude.

[Marcus]

It is perfect amount because we don't need it. There's no human drama. I want it all to be dogs.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

I want every film to be made with just dog casts.

[Henry]

Yeah. What's the album coming out? I mean, Christmas album, of course.

[Ben Leonberg]

Right? Oh, his Christmas album. Yeah, exactly.

[Marcus]

Honestly, I feel like he might. He might get. Honestly, kind of too expensive for you.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Henry]

Henry, do you think there's room run the podcast network for him?

[Marcus]

Yes. How does he feel about politics?

[Henry]

Politics, Please.

[Marcus]

Thank you.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah. I mean, he's blissfully ignorant of the fact he was in a movie or anything. That's Going on in the world.

[Marcus]

So incredible life. He gets the lead. Man, this was so friggin cool. So this comes out October 1st, correct.

[Ben Leonberg]

October 3rd, Friday and theater theatrical VOD to be announced.

[Marcus]

Dude, that's fucking awesome.

[Ben Leonberg]

How long?

[Marcus]

So in everywhere, right? Or a bunch of places.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, it's opening wide. So the trailer was so well received, they moved us from a limited to a wide release. So hopefully in a theory, it's an amc. Yeah, it should be in a theater near you.

[Marcus]

Dude. I legitimately, like, I'll confess, I watched the first half an hour and I stopped it because I want to see it on a big screen.

[Ben Leonberg]

Oh, amazing.

[Marcus]

I got to see it because the. It's so well lit. It's so well like the. It's like you're doing the thing where I. I guess it's like. It's not that I saw what you were doing, but it was like. Oh yeah. This is like an. This is a pure, like it's stripped down all the way down to its parts. It's just a pure ass beautiful movie that tells a really a strong, simple story with imagery. And I was like, I gotta see this in theater.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

Thank you.

[Henry]

Is this your Covid movie? Like, did you make this during COVID.

[Ben Leonberg]

Oh, man, what a great call. The answer is yes. That's how we started. We'd originally been thinking we'd make it with a larger, you know, cast and crew. And the pandemic kind of forced our hand that we could. I mean, for practical reasons, which ended up being necessities that had nothing to do with COVID The best way to make this movie was just with me, my wife and Indy.

[Marcus]

Yeah.

[Ben Leonberg]

The house you see in the movie is where we actually lived. We decorated it to look like a haunted house. I would spend the day setting up the lights, the camera, rigging whatever special effects were going to happen. Sun goes down, we roll the camera. Sometimes I would roll and then run in front of the camera to act in it, which is not a way you should really make a movie, but it's the right way to make a movie. With a dog. Yeah. And it worked with the resources we had.

[Henry]

That's fucking awesome. I've seen a lot. There's a lot of COVID movies that are starting to show up now. And like, I gotta say, this is like the first one I really enjoy.

[Marcus]

Yeah. If you want to get an education.

[Ben Leonberg]

On how to make a movie.

[Marcus]

Yeah, man, that movie is. I. I have never. To be honest, it's been a long time since I've seen a movie that's so bad that it's so deeply, utterly entertaining. War the Worlds is that movie.

[Henry]

I refuse to watch it. I saw Good Boy. I'm gonna go see it again in the theater. I appreciate the hell out of everything you guys did. It was beautiful. Also the other dog, it was. Who's that? Like your friend's dog?

[Ben Leonberg]

It's my parents dog. Yeah.

[Henry]

Yep.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah. So Indy and his name is Max. He plays Bandit in the film Bandit. Max wasn't born when I started making the movie, so he had the name of a different dog. But. But Indy gets to be himself. He's indeed the character and the dog in reality.

[Marcus]

Well, I think that he's got a bit of an attitude problem. You guys are going to have to work on that. But otherwise seems lovely. It seems, it seems really. It seems like a really wonderful time, you guys. And honestly, go check out Good Boy. Please. Also, local theater.

[Henry]

Not, not just that, just support, you know, like low budget horror movies as much as you can. If you go and see this movie in the theater, then more movies like this will be made because that's what the world needs right now.

[Marcus]

And Indy needs, honestly, a fund.

[Henry]

He needs treats.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah.

[Henry]

Yes.

[Marcus]

That's what this is for. I know, I know. The money mostly goes. I want, I want.

[Henry]

Next time I see indie, I want a Gucci leash. I want a.

[Marcus]

A studded collar, half his head shaved.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marcus]

He's now all of a sudden the new f. He's the new fashion consultant for like Gucci or something.

[Henry]

Yeah.

[Marcus]

You know, like a Jaden Smith. Think Jaden Smith.

[Henry]

Yes.

[Ben Leonberg]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look like is.

[Henry]

Is indie fixed?

[Ben Leonberg]

Yes.

[Henry]

All right.

[Marcus]

So good dogs out there.

[Henry]

You just let Indy go and go and go.

[Marcus]

It's just nice though, because then it keeps her from getting canceled.

[Ben Leonberg]

Right, Right.

[Marcus]

Yeah. Because that's huge right now.

[Ben Leonberg]

Honestly, it's, you know, as long as it took to make this movie. I don't know if how many other films can be made on his schedule, but he's, he's ready to sell out to the right, you know, you know, dog food, super bowl commercials.

[Marcus]

You hear that, Purina? All right, Ben Leonberg, director of Good Boy.

[Ben Leonberg]

Thank you guys.

[Marcus]

Thank you.

[Ben Leonberg]

This is a blast. Thank you so much.

[Henry]

Oh, yeah, man.

[Ben Leonberg]

At Designer Shoe Warehouse, we believe that shoes are an important part of, well.

[Commercial Narrator]

Everything from first steps to first dates, from all nighters to all time personal.

[Marcus]

Bests, from building pillow forts to building.

[Commercial Narrator]

A life for all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or dsw.com hey.

[Marcus]

Listeners, Marcus Head and Henry here.

[Ben Leonberg]

A little bit of an announcement.

[Henry]

You loving all the episodes of Last Podcast on the Left lately? Well listen, now you can get even more from us.

[Marcus]

Squeeze it out of us if you want to hear new episodes ad free and unlock access to Last Podcast on the left seven days early. Subscribe to Sirius XM podcast plus on Apple Podcasts or visit siriusxm.compodcastplus to start your free trial today. Do it.