Zach Kreger (2:45)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (2:45)

You think you fucking tough? He does.

Eddie (2:48)

With your fancy clear glasses.

Henry Zebrowski (2:50)

This is the director of the new hit Weapons and the former hit current hit Barbarian, and one of the lord creatures of whitest kids, you know, Zack Kreker. Thank you for being here.

Zach Kreger (3:04)

I'm so thrilled to be here. I love the show and it is. What? It's a treat. Thank you so much. Henry, have you talked about how you came in to help me with Barbarian?

Henry Zebrowski (3:15)

I discussed only little, little pieces that I came in and. Because I didn't even know what the full extent of my voice was used.

Zach Kreger (3:23)

Well, sadly, it wasn't used.

Henry Zebrowski (3:26)

Okay, okay, that's fine. That's fine though.

Zach Kreger (3:27)

But I was. It was very kind of you to help, though, because what was going on is I was trying to get the screen down for the mother, and I just could not get the screen. And I was listening to your podcast and you were doing some fucking character and you just like, very casually went like. And then they go like. And you did this like, amazing blood curdling shriek. And I was like, that's.

Henry Zebrowski (3:47)

That's what I want.

Zach Kreger (3:48)

I was like in the car and I like, like, he did it. And so I got a hold of you and you were so kind to come in and. And I made you scream for 20 minutes.

Eddie (3:57)

It was awesome.

Zach Kreger (3:57)

And it was.

Henry Zebrowski (3:58)

It was my pleasure. Yes, it was my pleasure. No, it was so much fun. I actually. It's a good bring up. So, like, we know each other from way back in the day. Why this kids, was always held as this wonderful esteem because when we.

Eddie (4:12)

The goal.

Henry Zebrowski (4:13)

The goal.

Zach Kreger (4:14)

I'm sure you hated us just like every other sketch group hated.

Henry Zebrowski (4:17)

You know what, dude? What's nice is that you guys were awesome. Each one of you was extremely sweet to us. You never made us feel stupid. We were told, because we were the only other independent sketch comedy group when we arrived. We were like a part of a pastiche of independent sketch comedy groups. And, like, you were like kind of the bastion. You guys were the light on the hill that, like, oh, if you just. If you're just funny and you're right place, right time, they give you a television show and then you sealed up the door behind you.

Eddie (4:47)

You really did well.

Zach Kreger (4:48)

That was part of our deal. We're like, close the door.

Henry Zebrowski (4:51)

Yeah, but the part of sketch comedy, I feel like now we're.

Eddie (4:55)

We even had Biederman trying to help us for a hot second, and he Couldn't. Oh, he couldn't do with us. We were a disaster, though. We were hammered.

Henry Zebrowski (5:03)

We were disgusting.

Eddie (5:04)

That was the problem.

Zach Kreger (5:05)

You think we weren't hammered? Are you kidding?

Eddie (5:07)

God damn it.

Henry Zebrowski (5:11)

But a lot of now, like, now Jordan Peele, a lot of people are seeing this connection between horror and comedy. And I think it's getting kind of like everybody's saying sort of the same thing, right? Where that comedy hinges on timing and visceral response, which is very similar to humor, but I think it's deeper than that.

Zach Kreger (5:30)

Oh, tell me, tell me.

Henry Zebrowski (5:31)

Well, no, I wanted to ask you if you felt that exercising dark ideas through sketch comedy actually creates a darker vision for, like, the world in general.

Zach Kreger (5:49)

What an amazing question that I have never really considered. And I think you could be right. And here's why I'm gonna go with you on this journey here is because all the brainstorming that we would do to sit down and just start, like, okay, sketch ideas. Sketch ideas, you know? Cause we've all been there. Like, what would be crazy? You just start pushing your brain to think of, like, what's an extreme situation? And I did all day, every day, for I don't know how many fucking years, I committed all of myself to white as kids. Basically a decade, honestly, you know, same. So I think, like, if there's a gym, you know, like a mental gym, I was working out the muscle group that was like, how far can I go? You know, how can I go left when I should go right? You know, so maybe that's. Maybe that's in there, maybe so.

Eddie (6:36)

I feel like movies are almost like a series of sketches, like, getting you from scene to scene in a weird way.

Henry Zebrowski (6:42)

Do you think that horror movies, like comedies, hinge on pivotal scenes or versus entire arcs?

Zach Kreger (6:49)

Well, that's a great question, too, I think. Look, a horror movie must have scenes that scare you, right? If you watch a horror movie and you're never actually scared, but it's telling a great story, it doesn't mean it's a bad movie. It just means it's probably not really a horror movie. You know what I mean? It's a drama, so. Yeah. Or it's a mystery, it's a thriller, whatever it is, you know, I don't know, but I mean, the best horror movies will have those, but they'll still, like, you could take the scares out and it would still tell a compelling story. Like, the Shining is still a fascinating story, even if it wasn't, you know, as viscerally terrifying as it is. Because I Want to know. I want to track this guy's decline, and I want to watch how his family has to. Has to react. I think that's. That's a really engaging story. So I'm trying to think of, like, a terrifying horror movie where if you took all the scares out, it would be like, let's. Let's examine Terrifier two.

Henry Zebrowski (7:36)

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Terrifier two, which is like, for me, I view that even closer to, like a comedy in terms of you have set pieces. Like Terrifier 2 has set pieces that the movie's sort of moving. Moving towards that.

Zach Kreger (7:49)

Yes.

Henry Zebrowski (7:49)

Allow these things to collide where, like, you did that so well in Weapons with the. The kind of way you told the story where you set four lines out at each other and then they all collide together. Yeah. But Terrifier 2 is a much more deeply simplified version of what you did, you know, like, it's a much more simplified. It's much more direct. It obviously is like, we gotta kill a bunch of people. Like, you know, like Terrifier two. You know, the idea is to get just piles of guts.

Eddie (8:23)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is. It's just kill, kill, kill, kill, kill.

Zach Kreger (8:26)

You know, by the way, I really like Terrifier 2. They're all my big fan. When I went to Fright Fest in 2022, the only movie, I was like, I gotta clear my schedule to go see Terrifier 2. Because I had been. I loved Terrifier 1. And I was like, I can't believe I had to wait, like, this many years to see this fucking thing. I am. I am ready.

Henry Zebrowski (8:45)

So I was really happy with him.

Zach Kreger (8:46)

I'm into it.

Eddie (8:47)

I lined all of them at once just because I was literally scared to see him. Yeah, yeah. Because I just like. I'm like, I don't know if I could handle all this core. And then. So I was just like. Then we. We interviewed David Howard Thorton. So I just watched all three, like, right in a row, and that was. That's the way to do it.

Henry Zebrowski (9:02)

And he's the simplest little cowpoke Southern boy. Have you ever talked to him?

Zach Kreger (9:08)

The clown?

Henry Zebrowski (9:09)

Oh, he's all like. Like, well, gee golly, I don't even know how all this happened. I'm just a theater boy, and I just. I love musicals. And I. And it was. It's amazing.

Zach Kreger (9:20)

Honestly.

Henry Zebrowski (9:21)

In last night, I had the pleasure of seeing weapons in a packed theater. Wednesday night, pack theater.

Eddie (9:28)

Tuesday night, I saw it in the pack theater. And not just that it was playing in Multiple theaters at once. And it was like everyone was going to see Weapons. It was awesome.

Zach Kreger (9:36)

That's wild.

Henry Zebrowski (9:37)

But the reaction. Dude, there was a part in this that I wondered.

Eddie (9:41)

People were talking in the lobby.

Henry Zebrowski (9:42)

Oh, yes. Everybody was hanging out. Lobby. You have such a great. Like when you were making. When you were making this movie. You ever see Exorcist 3? Did you put Exorcist?

Zach Kreger (9:51)

I've seen Exorcist 3. I think it's amazing.

Henry Zebrowski (9:53)

Did you? Did you. Were you inspired at all by Exorcist 3? Because I think you have one of the best jump scares that I've seen in a fucking minute. Dead. Dead in the right.

Zach Kreger (10:00)

You're talking about the ceiling. Yes, yes. I mean, that's got to come from Exorcist 3. But that's kind of a combination of three jump scares. Obviously the Exorcist 3 ceiling gag is not a jump scare. It's just deeply off putting.

Henry Zebrowski (10:11)

Yes.

Zach Kreger (10:12)

You know, and it's great. It's mesmerizing and I love it. The Exorcist 3 jump scare, which is to my. For my money, in the top five of all time is the hallway crash. Zoom on that fucking lady with the scissors. That to me, I'm getting. The hair on my neck is standing up right now thinking about that scare. It's so good. I don't know how it freaked me out so much the first time I saw it. And it's one of those scares where I could still put it on right now and it would still kind of get me, you know, I love it so much. The other one, and this is a little less like hip cred here, but the conjuring dude, the Bathsheba on top of the armoire, when it tilted up and she jumps. I was not ready for that, dude. That annihilated me in the theater, dude.

Eddie (10:54)

The first conjuring me up, it was the best, dude.

Zach Kreger (10:57)

The clapping sequence, it's ruthless.

Henry Zebrowski (11:00)

I always think of Insidious too though, which is my other big commercial one where I. I almost killed my mother. Cuz I knew it was coming. I knew they. We saw it with my mom and I. I knew the devil, the fire devil scene was coming. And so I crawled like over the shoulder.

Zach Kreger (11:14)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (11:15)

I crawled behind the chair that she was sitting in. I pretended to go to the bathroom and I crawled behind the chair. And as it popped up, I almost killed her, man. It was so worth it.

Zach Kreger (11:26)

But I do believe that's an insidious one. If I'm not.

Henry Zebrowski (11:29)

Yes, yes. That's my. That's my other favorite jump scare. But like, when you're thinking about the movie, when you're writing it, like, do you think about it in that way? Like for those jump scares for stuff like that? Like, because it in. In weapons, it came at a very specific moment, obviously it felt like you were like. It almost felt like the movie kicks in hard, like, like you're watching and all of a sudden it was like the movie changed. Is that on purpose?

Zach Kreger (11:56)

To a degree, yeah. So my writing process is usually very stream of consciousness. I don't outline, I don't know where I'm going to go. So, like, I remember the first pass I did at that point in Justine's chapter. I actually didn't really know where the kids went. I didn't know what was behind them running away. So I was kind of like, just like improvising. And so I don't think I put that ceiling scene nightmare in because I didn't know that Gladys existed. And so when did Gladys show up for you? I think in the cop stuff, when I was getting into Paul and the Cop and the Junkie is when I kind of figured it out. Like, I think by the time I wrote James Chapter, I had that idea. I was like, the kids are in the basement. Why though? Like, why would the kids be in Alex's basement? It just felt like that's where they had to be. And then I just kind of had this idea of like, this is gonna sound really woo woo. And I really don't like to talk about the meaning of the movie, but I have said this before, so I guess I can let this much out of the bag because it's already out. But like, the Gladys and Alex chapter to me is just about living with an alcoholic parent. I grew up in an alcoholic household. My dad died of cirrhosis. And it's a terrible thing that comes into a family dynamic and it changes everything. And so I had a happy house. And then something came into my house and it turned my dad into a scary person. And I'd go to school and everything's cool and I'd go home and I'd have a scary house with a scary dad. And so that to me felt so interesting. And this is such a personal movie, so it's like there's no overarching lesson in this movie. This is not like I have nothing to say with this movie. I'm not. I have no pretense of like, this is a treatise or anything like that. It's just a diary entry for me. And it just felt good to kind of have this dynamic at the core of it that is something that I feel really a personal connection to that had a ripple effect out into this text. Down, dude. And so that's all that is.

Henry Zebrowski (13:51)

I, I gotta say, because that came off of the movie, like, watching it. I did not read any of your interviews leading up to it. I had no idea. Didn't even see a trailer. I didn't even, I didn't know what the movie was about.

Zach Kreger (14:01)

It's the best way to go in.

Henry Zebrowski (14:02)

That's my favorite. And so I went and watched it. And the first thing that, one of my first reactions that came off when I, when I saw it was there's so many allegorical layers within this story that can be applied that you wonder if it came from such a, if it came from something personal. Like it felt like it. Because it definitely feels like they're all like it. It feels like there's a lesson to be learned here, but we have no idea what it is. And everybody that's a responsible person inside of the movie is also like, there's a lesson to be learned here. What's the lesson? Yeah, and they're, and they can't figure it out.

Eddie (14:40)

They all do what they think is right and it just doesn't work out, man. It's.

Zach Kreger (14:43)

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I've definitely been kind of cognizant of some of the. There's a lot of theories out there about, about what this movie's trying to say.

Henry Zebrowski (14:54)

Oh, yeah, sure. That's the best part.

Zach Kreger (14:56)

And, and you know.

Henry Zebrowski (14:57)

Yeah. What's with the AK47? Can I ask, what's the AKA? Was it just elemental? Like, is it just a.

Zach Kreger (15:03)

If I gave you the answer, I would be robbing something precious. Great. And it's like, you know what I mean?

Henry Zebrowski (15:08)

So it's like, dude, you're crushing it, man. That's what I was saying. I think that's the idea, is that that's what we liked about David lynch is the fact that he didn't give a fuck about answering the question. He doesn't care to answer the question.

Eddie (15:19)

That's exactly what Julia and I, my wife and I said as soon as we left. It's like, I hate when fucking movies, especially horror movies, sit there and they kind of over explain everything, let my brain torture itself. And it just, it was amazing.

Zach Kreger (15:33)

Some things in this movie, I don't know why they're in the movie. I genuinely don't understand them. And, but, but because I Do what, David? I read David Lynch's book Catching the Big Fish, right? Where it's just about transcendental meditation as a creative tool. Ever since I read that book, I incorporated transcendental meditation into my writing process. I wrote Barbarian that way, I wrote Weapons that way. And part of the deal for me is if that's going to be my process, I want to go. I want to do it all the way. And so there's things that come into my writing that I don't quite get, but I love them. And maybe I love them because I don't quite get them. And sometimes I'll write shit in, and it'll be like a couple of years go by and then I'll actually realize what it means. And it's like, maybe I must have known it all along, but I didn't quite crack the code until later. And to me, that is like. So. I just think that's so wonderful. It's just such a fun part of being a creative person is to just, like, tap into something outside of yourself and try and be a conduit. Whether it's real or not, or I'm just deluding myself, isn't even important to me. But the idea of feeling like an antenna is wonderful. Chekhov, kind of. That was his thing. He would give that advice to actors. He'd be like, creativity and good ideas don't come from you, they come from outside. And your only job is to tap into the frequency and receive them from without. And I just think that, why can't that be the case? I like to pretend that that's the way.

Henry Zebrowski (16:57)

And it's also about experiencing maybe. I don't know if it's just getting older in a way, sometimes wonder if it's being able to accept, almost accept the mystery of yourself.

Zach Kreger (17:09)

Yeah, I mean, David lynch went a step further. He said that ideas are out there waiting to be caught, and if you don't catch it, somebody else will. And that's a really fascinating thing, where it's like these. And I like to think of it like he says, catching the big fish. I like to think you go down under the ocean and there are these big fish swimming around, and I can hook them, but if I don't, that story's gonna get told one way or another. You know, time comes for these things, you know, that's why sometimes we get a lot of similar things that all seem to kind of come out at the same time.

Henry Zebrowski (17:39)

So right now you're in Prague shooting Resident Evil. How's the human Trafficking going, by the way.

Zach Kreger (17:43)

Yeah, it's been okay. I could use more.

Henry Zebrowski (17:46)

Yeah, I understand. Same, same.

Eddie (17:48)

Well, so it's here. It's not bumper to bumper?

Henry Zebrowski (17:50)

No, no, not there. Not there. Now my question is that. But now you're shooting. You're. So speaking of process. So you go from be this smaller process with obviously you got a little bit more money with weapons, but it was like, it's still all you and it's an independent movie and it allows for that. With something like Resident Evil. When you're handed something that is this like kind of a blanket ip, do they give you that same level of trust? Or like, is it, Is it a whole different way of making movies?

Zach Kreger (18:20)

I'm in a very fortunate position with this movie where I have, I have the same amount of control that I had for, for weapons.

Henry Zebrowski (18:28)

Yeah.

Eddie (18:28)

Really?

Zach Kreger (18:29)

It's pretty cool. Yeah. I, I have final cut. You know, I wrote the script and this is the, this is the movie I'm making and everyone is, is. Is in. So it's, it's. It's. It's a very, very fortunate position to be in.

Henry Zebrowski (18:45)

Did you have to change your brain and how you write movies in terms of like, is it a different type of movie than what you've made already?

Zach Kreger (18:53)

Okay, so. Well, it's a totally different type of movie, but I wrote it like way before I went and did Weapons, so. And it was funny. Cause I wrote it kind of like carelessly because I was like, I'm never gonna direct Resident Evil, so I'm just gonna fucking write, like, I'm just gonna have fucking fun. I'm just gonna like play around and just be like, what if this happened? Oh my God, they'll never let me. What if this happened? And by the time I finished, I was like, oh, my God, I fucking love it. You know? And by the way, I think that is the other real special key to creativity is to be careless and to like, have no regard for the result and play like a little kid colors with crayons, right? You can always edit that. Do that with like. Yeah, exactly. Like, Kurt Vonnegut has that amazing lesson. He's like, dude, you know Kurt Vonnegut, how he always starts up and like, yo, dude, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (19:38)

Hey, bro, it's good, it's good.

Zach Kreger (19:40)

Listen, check it, check it, check it. No, but he would say, you know, write three sentences on a piece of paper and know that as soon as you're done, you're going to burn the paper. And I promise you, you will fall in Love with what you write. And that is because there is no result expectation. And so it's just this pure thing. And so if you're able to get yourself in a position where you can write from a place of joy and of fun and of carelessness, then that's when the best stuff comes out. And so, because I already knew I was going to make weapons, and I didn't really give a shit about Resident Evil, I thought at the time I was able to just write just from a pure. Like, this would be so fun. And then I ended up with something I was, like, in love with. So now I get to go make another movie that I think is going to be, like, such a blast. So it's cool.

Eddie (20:25)

Are you working with the original writers of Resident Evil or how do they feel about it? No. Do they even know what you're doing?

Zach Kreger (20:32)

I don't know. Hell yeah, man.

Eddie (20:35)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (20:36)

No, he can't be saddled with that. He can't be afraid of what the video game people are going to do.

Zach Kreger (20:40)

Video game, by the way, I love those games.

Henry Zebrowski (20:44)

Sure.

Eddie (20:44)

Obviously you wrote the thing for fun, you know. Of course you love it. Yeah.

Zach Kreger (20:48)

Yeah. So like Resident Evil 4. I've probably put like 7,000 fucking hours into just that game alone. It's, like, embarrassing. So, I mean, I'm writing this as a true fan, and I want it to feel like the way that I feel when I play those games.

Henry Zebrowski (21:02)

Do you go back and literally play Resident Evil, like, in your room? Like, will you go to your room and play it and then go back.

Zach Kreger (21:08)

And then my PS5 comes with me wherever I go? I'm not joking.

Eddie (21:12)

Hell yeah.

Zach Kreger (21:12)

And I play every day. I don't. I don't play Resident Evil every day, but I play. You know, I'm a big video game guy. It's kind of. It's my only vice, really.

Henry Zebrowski (21:20)

Yeah. What are you playing right now?

Zach Kreger (21:22)

Right now I'm playing two things. I'm playing the new Mafia game that came out this week.

Henry Zebrowski (21:26)

Which is.

Zach Kreger (21:28)

Which is. Yeah, it's cool. And I'm playing. I'm replaying for like, the fifth time, Tiny Tina's Wonderland, because I'm so excited for Borderlands 4 to come out next. Next month.

Henry Zebrowski (21:36)

That's amazing. Oh, that's right. You see this? Good. Good to peek inside.

Eddie (21:40)

I love you going. I love you working at the idea of you making Resident Evil and going back to your hotel room and playing more Resident Evil.

Zach Kreger (21:48)

I do it.

Eddie (21:49)

When I was a cook, I used to go home and play Burger Time you know, so I was like, so I understand.

Zach Kreger (21:57)

Oh, yeah, dude.

Henry Zebrowski (21:59)

Do we want to ask any. Do we want to do a little. Let me do a spoiler. You want to do any spoiler questions?

Eddie (22:03)

Sort of.

Zach Kreger (22:03)

Maybe.

Eddie (22:04)

All right, sure, sure.

Henry Zebrowski (22:05)

Unless there's any other, like, generals before.

Zach Kreger (22:08)

We get in there.

Henry Zebrowski (22:08)

Because I. That's my problem. We have so questions about weapons. Yes, but I don't want people to. We gotta go see Weapons, man.

Eddie (22:15)

First off, before.

Zach Kreger (22:16)

It's so funny, I was trying to get you guys to come over to my house to watch. I know you couldn't make it. I know, but it's just like. By the way, my wife and I are both such huge fans, so the idea that, like, you guys would come over and watch it, like, I would never offer anybody that. But Sarah and I were just like. And they'll come and we'll make it real nice.

Eddie (22:34)

We were very excited, too. We were doing the same way.

Henry Zebrowski (22:37)

We were the same. But Henry's dad and I. Yeah, my father had to kick the bucket. It's all right, dude. No, he.

Eddie (22:45)

Everything. One more.

Henry Zebrowski (22:48)

It did actually hurt my summer schedule. And I did talk with my father's ghost.

Eddie (22:53)

It's gonna destroy his h. Well, Barbarian was first off. Before we go any further onto weapons. Barbarian, like, blew me away. I didn't know it was you. When I went and saw it, I went and saw it by act like. I was like, I'll check out this weird movie, you know? And I went. And I fucking lost my mind. I was like, cheering. I was like, barbarian and weapons, like, boat. When I walked out of there, I was, like, jealous, you know, I was. It was one of those. I was like, God damn. Did it. Piece of. It was so good, man. I really loved it. I was rewatching it last night before I came here, and I just love. We were talking about this how you just, like, blow up everything constantly.

Henry Zebrowski (23:32)

Yeah, blow the up.

Eddie (23:37)

And it just makes me so happy, man. It's like. It's like, oh, you want a sequel yourself? You know? But, I mean, I just wanted to gush about Barbarian for.

Zach Kreger (23:48)

I'll take it. I'd love to hear it.

Henry Zebrowski (23:50)

What is happening? You know, what's great is I feel like we're finally entering the world of modern horror movies where people aren't writing it. From the aspect of, like, cell phones and the Internet are a fad. I feel like you're finally embracing this. What we were like, my wife and I were talking about last night about the idea of like an. Almost like an Urban fairy tale where it's like, it's taking place within a believable environment. Like, when you were working on Barbarian Detroit obviously had a lot to do with the movie. When you were shooting this movie on weapons. It feels like I've heard several critics already say the idea of Stephen King, like, right, you've seen the Stephen King, like, and both Natalie and I both said the same thing, oddly enough, as soon as I was watching, and I was like, that's where Pennywise lives. Like, as soon as I saw that bridge, I was like, that's where Pennywise lives. 2:17 is all in the Stephen King world. And is that overt or is that subtle? Is that, like, on the inside?

Zach Kreger (24:53)

It's not intentionally, but, you know, I. I don't think you could be our age and grow up in America and have an interest in horror and not be totally baked by Stephen King, you know, it's just, like. It's unavoidable. So I love, loved. You know, I. I read it in junior high and I loved it. So, yeah, it's. It's. I'd be a total liar if I was like, no, man, there's no Stephen King in this because it's like the Beatles. It's like, yeah, yeah, it's. It's everywhere.

Eddie (25:16)

Well, there's Beatles in it too. Right up, right up top, man.

Henry Zebrowski (25:19)

Yeah. Dude, how'd you get the George Harrison song?

Zach Kreger (25:22)

Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, look at your shirt. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (25:26)

Dude, how did you get that song? What a great moment, dude.

Eddie (25:30)

I was so happy. I'm just singing. I was like, peace. I was like, I ate a little mushroom pill.

Zach Kreger (25:34)

I was like, yeah, that song is so good, dude. I mean, we got it. We just had to. We had to pay out the ass, dude.

Eddie (25:41)

I've been listening to All Things Must Pass ever since I saw the movie. Just over and over.

Zach Kreger (25:45)

Perfect album. Amazing album.

Henry Zebrowski (25:47)

The music is. It was. How specific and how involved were you in choosing the music for the movie?

Eddie (25:52)

Because we wrote a bunch of it.

Zach Kreger (25:55)

Yeah, I scored it with my two, like, best best friends.

Eddie (25:57)

Yeah, the Holiday brothers or something.

Zach Kreger (26:00)

Yeah, yeah. Ryan and Hayes. They're like two dudes I grew up with in Arlington, Virginia. We were in a band in college, and they're really talented musicians, and we just share a musical mind because we've made music together for so long. And when I was doing Barbarian, I was just kind of like. I just realized, like, if I could do this with Ryan and Hayes, it would just be so, like, psychic, you know? Mind meld. Easy. And so on this one, they had never scored a movie before. I'd never scored a movie before, but I was just like, I want to just try this. And the studio was cool. And so, yeah, I just brought my, like, my best buddy to New York, and we just did it. It was great.

Henry Zebrowski (26:33)

What is that process? Like, honestly, like, when do you. Is the movie already cut and finalized by the time you're doing that?

Zach Kreger (26:41)

Weird. We did it weird because we. Before I went to Atlanta and shot the movie, I got together with Ryan and Hayes and we went through the script and we scored the movie. So, like, we wrote, like, all this music, like, for each scene. And so when I was shooting, I kind of had an idea of, like, you know, how it was gonna feel, which was really helpful. And then when I was editing it, they came out, and a lot of that stuff didn't make it in the movie, but some of it did. And I didn't temp anything. So they were just there. And as I'm cutting the movie together, I cut with my editor. I'd go in the room with them, and then we'd start doing the music, and I'd go back with my editor and do some cutting. And so we were able to just kind of stitch the picture cut and the score together simultaneously. So I never. That's cool. They kind of informed each other. Was really cool.

Henry Zebrowski (27:24)

But also the music, the song choices were all, like, elementally in the same. Like, it was a very specific vibe. Like, it was like that.

Zach Kreger (27:32)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (27:32)

Like.

Zach Kreger (27:32)

And it's, like, Aware of Darkness and the Percy Sledge are in the script. I knew I wanted the handsome family song, like, while we were shooting. And then that MGMT song at the very end. I knew I wanted. I knew I wanted that, like, like, from the very beginning.

Eddie (27:46)

I love that band. I never heard that song before. It was.

Zach Kreger (27:49)

It's a. Their Live at the Guggenheim album is amazing, and it is just as good as some of their studio albums. So I highly recommend it.

Henry Zebrowski (27:58)

I feel like that's one of those things that also just either raises a movie up or destroys it. Is the soundscape in that way of choosing because it really. There's something about your song choices that made it feel like the suburbs. It made it feel like a place that's safe. You know what I mean? Like, a place that you're in, a safe place. You're being held by this warm, understanding music. But it's obviously an extremely unpredictable world.

Zach Kreger (28:25)

Yeah. Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (28:27)

I just loved it. Great work, bro.

Eddie (28:28)

Yeah, Great fucking work, bro.

Zach Kreger (28:30)

Thank you so much.

Eddie (28:31)

Also totally dug the Steamboat Willie, you know, usage.

Zach Kreger (28:35)

Oh, well, that's crazy, right? Because this is the year that, like, Steamboat Willie came up for Public Domain. And so my costume designer was like, we can do this, and it won't be, like, totally played out. And I was like, let's fucking yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (28:47)

Fuck, yeah, dude.

Eddie (28:48)

It was awesome, man. Just watching him go around fucking covered in blood. Blood, dude. All right, so spoiler zone, I guess.

Henry Zebrowski (28:54)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do, like. Just so you know, we're gonna ask some specific questions about weapons. Just go see weapons.

Eddie (29:00)

Yes, please go see this movie. I had so much fun. The whole. People were cheering and clapping during the movie.

Henry Zebrowski (29:06)

Dude, I will say. And I. This is a. The biggest. One of the biggest kudos I can give to the movie. We were sitting next to two teenagers that were trying to have sex with each other the entire time. I could definitely. They were hammered and they were trying to have sex with each other. They stopped to watch the movie.

Eddie (29:20)

Wow.

Zach Kreger (29:21)

It doesn't get better than that. Yeah, that is as good as it gets.

Eddie (29:25)

Only half penetration, man. They couldn't go all the way.

Henry Zebrowski (29:28)

And then I was like, let me show you. Hey, hey. Let me show you what to do. This is what my father did for me.

Eddie (29:35)

Oh, man. All right, so Benedict Wong was awesome. It was a great choice having him in the movie. The Eyeballs. How the hell did you do the Eyeballs? Was that CGI or was that makeup or, like.

Henry Zebrowski (29:50)

I thought he could do that.

Zach Kreger (29:54)

That's good.

Henry Zebrowski (29:55)

That's great.

Zach Kreger (29:55)

I'm glad you thought that.

Eddie (29:57)

No, it looked real as hell.

Zach Kreger (29:59)

Yeah. It's crazy because what we did is, like, so, you know, they scan his face and then they build his face in the computer. Right? It's like these artists, like, meticulously build it, and then they. They basically create this, like, system where I could go in and look at the cut, and then they could. They had a little slider that would just. Just do the bulge and the size of the eyeball. So they could just go, like, all the way up, and it looked like insane Roger Rabbit or, like, back down. And so it was really fun to kind of, like, you know, let's try it at a 5.2. Oh, that's crazy. Let's try it. A 6.1. You know, it's really wild. It was so fun.

Henry Zebrowski (30:32)

That's awesome, dude. When it came to the magical practices of your. Is it fair to say you could maybe call weapons almost like a witch movie?

Zach Kreger (30:41)

Yeah. Oh, yeah, of course.

Henry Zebrowski (30:43)

Yes. And when you build out her specific. Because also Amy Madigan.

Zach Kreger (30:49)

Amazing. Terrifying, dude. Holy.

Eddie (30:51)

She's up.

Zach Kreger (30:52)

She's got to get her teeth.

Eddie (30:53)

Yeah, she's good at therapy.

Henry Zebrowski (30:55)

She's all up. But like, when. When she was making her. The. The magical practices and all the stuff that she was doing, are you like, did you have a firm idea of what it was that she was doing? Did you and Amy have a long conversation or was that like just kind of like, let's play it. Like it was like, you know, like, you know, but nobody else.

Zach Kreger (31:15)

You mean in terms of the rituals that she was doing?

Henry Zebrowski (31:17)

Yes.

Zach Kreger (31:18)

No, no, no. That I worked out way in advance. And that was actually pretty complicated to try and get it because it has to like serve different functions in different scenes, but it has to stay consistent. So that was something I worked on with my production court. My production designer, Tom Hammock and I, we really kind of like ironed out together how the ritual would go. And that was fun to kind of create your own magic rituals. There's a Mecons, you know, there's this punk band, the Mekongs, and they have this song called Dancing in the Head. And it's. And it's just about. It's instructions on how to create a zombie using like voodoo and it's fucking awesome. And I was gonna call the movie Dancing in the Head at one point. And it's just the idea of like soak a dollar bill in rum and then light it on fire and have four windows that aim at the four corners of the earth. I just love that kind of stuff. And there's this great book called Serpent in the Rainbow, which is a true. It's like a non fiction book about, you know, Haitian magic and stuff like that.

Henry Zebrowski (32:09)

Great movie too.

Zach Kreger (32:12)

Anyway, I haven't. I did want to use real stuff, but it was such a fun opportunity to create my own, you know, rituals. So like, I invented that tree and the idea of like, you know, it's all kind of adjacent to existing magic practices. But it's fake, you know.

Henry Zebrowski (32:31)

No, I recognized it honestly, and I really appreciated it. It. She was never related to them, was she?

Zach Kreger (32:38)

I don't know. Come on. I do think it's fascinating that the way she describes her relationship is different from the way that Whitmer Thomas describes.

Henry Zebrowski (32:49)

Exactly. He's like. So we saw her one time when she. 15 years ago, and then the other one was like, I don't know if I've ever met her. I. I was just like, that's fun. That was A great. When it came to Gladys's look, was that a long conversation? Was that a conversation between you and Amy and the production, or was that. Does Amy. Did you have to, like, convince Amy to. To not look like that?

Zach Kreger (33:10)

No. Amy.

Henry Zebrowski (33:10)

Did she just arrive like that?

Zach Kreger (33:12)

She's dead. No, no, no.

Henry Zebrowski (33:13)

Yeah.

Zach Kreger (33:15)

I was like, amy, can we kind of, like, dial it down a little bit? She's like, no. In for a penny, in for a pound. So, yeah, her look is based off of the. In Twin Peaks firewalk with me when he gets out of the. Out of the. The plane and there's that woman on the tarmac that scared the. Out of me. Scared. It scared me so bad. So I was just like, that is always kind of in my mind. And then the photographer, Cindy Sherman, who I've always adored. I don't know if you're familiar with her, but she does these self portraits, and she uses prosthetics to create this, like, uncanny Valley asymmetrical look. And she's always, like, photographing herself looking grotesque, and it's awesome. So I knew I wanted to incorporate some of that. And then there's. There's just, like, that Boca Raton old retiree kind of fashion sense that I just think is so great. And so Trish Somerville, who is my costume designer, and Jason Collins, my makeup designer, we had a wonderful time figuring out how to, like, build Gladys. It was great.

Henry Zebrowski (34:11)

I love it because it's obvious Gladys is trying to figure out how to fit in. Right?

Eddie (34:16)

Like, that's.

Henry Zebrowski (34:17)

I kind of.

Zach Kreger (34:17)

Yeah. I like the idea of, like, Anton Chigurh. You know, like, how he's like. He's just kind of impersonating what he sees around him. So he's got that fucking stupid haircut, and his clothes are too clean. It's like he went into a Western store and just, like, didn't look too hard, and he's just kind of like. He's impersonating something. Yeah.

Eddie (34:36)

I like the idea that he's also a demon. Yeah.

Zach Kreger (34:39)

I'm not saying that Gladys is a demon, but I just. I like the idea that it's just, like. It's just off, you know? And that's. That's what's so fun.

Henry Zebrowski (34:47)

Did you get any trouble from the Naruto people?

Zach Kreger (34:51)

I'm in litigation now with them.

Henry Zebrowski (34:55)

Is there any. How is that going? Because it's hard. I do understand, especially after the Area 51 incident, people get pretty. Pretty sensitive about running styles. I was like, honestly, that was pretty fucking off. That's like, what A great visual when you're. When you're writing it. Like, is that one of those things that you just kind of saw immediately? Like, the way that they were like the way. Because they. They're fleeing like, almost like birds. They're running like it's. It's such a beautiful picture.

Zach Kreger (35:26)

And in the script, I think what I wrote. I know was they run like the way that. It's a terrible image, but that little girl in that famous Vietnamese war photograph with the napalm.

Henry Zebrowski (35:38)

That's. No, but that really. That cements it, though.

Eddie (35:42)

Yeah.

Zach Kreger (35:43)

It's like the worst image I've ever seen. It is. And it really fucked me up a bit. And so I don't think. Yeah, so I think that was in there, dude.

Henry Zebrowski (35:53)

That it just. Because it really serves. It serves the work. Like, it's really amazing just hearing you talk about how much was both happenstance and. But mixed with planning and stuff. Like, it really shows that, like, movies are little miracles.

Zach Kreger (36:10)

They are absolutely little miracles. Every single one of them is. You know, like, they are.

Henry Zebrowski (36:14)

The fact that you could put it all together. The fact that all of these things happen and they all like. But I think that partially it's because you're. It's also you. You delivered a great lesson to our audience about the idea of getting out of your own way and just making it, like, playing it as it lays. You're gonna make it as it comes out.

Zach Kreger (36:31)

I think that's a really healthy practice, you know, and it's that David lynch thing. It's like you go inside of yourself to receive something from outside of yourself. You know, it's like, counterintuitive, but I think it's a real thing and.

Henry Zebrowski (36:47)

Cause you aren't like an autocratic monster on set that you're not all like.

Zach Kreger (36:51)

I don't think so.

Henry Zebrowski (36:52)

That's in the goddamn movie. I don't care. Like, is it one of those where.

Zach Kreger (36:56)

Yeah, no, no, I try not to. I mean, I. I want everyone to have a better idea than me because then the movie gets that much better. You know what I mean?

Eddie (37:04)

So, yeah, one thing I really dug was like, the tiny details that kind of like, were misdirects. You know, you, like. You think. You think it really. To me anyway, I. Maybe I'm an idiot and I. It did mean something and I didn't think it did. But like. Like, like the people drinking and stuff, you think, like, you know, the relationship between And Julia Gardner, you know, like, I love all that stuff. And they kind of just like. And Then it just becomes like, at the end of the movie, none of it matters. And I thought it was.

Zach Kreger (37:32)

I've heard that worded as a. As a criticism of the movie. I appreciate that. That for you, that's a. That's a good thing. But that is one of the things.

Eddie (37:42)

People don't like it up my brain, like, because I'm going one way, and then all of a sudden, oh, shit. It's this, you know, and it's like, I like that.

Henry Zebrowski (37:49)

No, it's about how everybody in the movie is willing to blame anybody but the actual problem. Like, that's how it feels. Everybody's looking for a very simplified answer to more than an answer to a question that literally there is no answer to.

Zach Kreger (38:06)

Yeah. Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (38:07)

So they. That's. That's how I viewed it, where it's like, you have all these people that desperately want to help. The cop wants to help. You know, like, Julie wants to help. They want to help. They're like, even the. Even Josh Brolin. What is it like, like working with a movie star like that?

Zach Kreger (38:25)

It's. It's wild because, like, Josh is, first of all, he's very cool. Like, he's a very chill, like, disarming funny, kind of. He's a good hang, you know, so I'd kind of gotten to know him a bit before we started shooting. So I. You know, I was starstruck when I first met him because, like, Josh Brolin, like, no country for Old Men. Like, I don't even know what to say. Oh, yeah. But, you know, he's very, very good at quickly kind of disarming you. And so by the time we were, like, having our first day on set, I didn't. You know, he's just Josh, you know, like, it's easy. But I remember I'm looking at the monitor, and he stepped in front of the camera, and I'm watching it on screen, and I had, like, a real, like, holy shit, it's Josh Brolin. You know, it's like. It's a moment, and I felt, like, so fortunate in that moment to, like, I get to have this for the whole fucking movie.

Henry Zebrowski (39:17)

All the crazy. What is that difference? Because I see me on camera, I'm like, oh, God. But then when you see a. Like that, like, what makes a movie star? What is it about it?

Eddie (39:29)

It's a big head. First of all, he's got to have. You got to have a big head.

Zach Kreger (39:32)

Helps Josh.

Henry Zebrowski (39:34)

Jack Black literally has the largest dome I've ever seen on a person.

Eddie (39:37)

Humphrey Bogart. Giant. He was like half head.

Zach Kreger (39:41)

I have no idea what it is, but it's like every angle, there's just something that you're interested in. You know, there's something you. You can't quite figure it out, but you're just drawn in. I don't know what it is, dude. And maybe it's just like that's a real thing though.

Henry Zebrowski (39:53)

And that mystery is what sometimes turn, I guess turns them into like weird when they turn into like, you know, like weird maga dudes. Is that what happens to like the older movie guys sometimes? Cuz they're like, they're like. I used to be interesting.

Zach Kreger (40:05)

I think they were all John Void.

Henry Zebrowski (40:07)

Yeah, John Void.

Eddie (40:08)

James Wood.

Henry Zebrowski (40:09)

I used to make love to my daughter every day.

Eddie (40:11)

I think there's a reason they were such good bad guys all the time, you know, like they were bad men. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Josh Brolin, I love how in the movie like they all like they're against each other and then it just shows in society you just need that one thing to happen and then all of a sudden we're on the same team and like all you need is.

Henry Zebrowski (40:29)

A bulging eyed zombie man to physically attack a woman and then you really jump right to be.

Zach Kreger (40:34)

Yes. A common enemy is. Is usually an attack is what will do it. Right.

Eddie (40:39)

All right, so at the risk of we in asking this for because I don't want you to like, you know, do. What did Josh Brolin do as a producer?

Zach Kreger (40:46)

Producer.

Eddie (40:46)

I noticed he was a producer. What is that? Is that? You know, like, I'm just curious.

Henry Zebrowski (40:50)

That's a little bit of movie magic.

Zach Kreger (40:52)

It's a little bit of movie magic.

Eddie (40:54)

Yeah.

Zach Kreger (40:55)

You know, like he was, he was helpful with like helping with some schedule stuff and he's helpful in like helping us like make sure that we had the, the other cast that we needed.

Henry Zebrowski (41:04)

Season four for. Your Pretty face is going to hell. When I did the Adult Swim show, they gave me my producer credit and I legitimately felt like they just gave me a sash and then I sat in a chair. Like I sat in a chair. I had my own like my ear set. But that's like all it was. I was like, I'm a producer. They're like, yeah.

Zach Kreger (41:25)

So funny, dude. Oh my God.

Henry Zebrowski (41:32)

Just the truth, dude. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy. I know you're working like a goddamn maniac right now. Thank you so much for talking to us.

Eddie (41:42)

Yeah, man.

Zach Kreger (41:43)

You guys, this, this was so fun. I'm so happy to do it. I'VE been, I've been really looking forward to this.

Henry Zebrowski (41:48)

I just. Go get your ass to weapons.

Eddie (41:51)

Go see this movie in the theater. It has to be seen in the theater with a crowd. You're gonna have the best time checking this movie out. Bring a crew, bring your friends. You all are gonna talk about this movie forever.

Henry Zebrowski (42:02)

Old fashioned gasps and laughter in a film.

Zach Kreger (42:06)

Yeah, I can't, man.

Henry Zebrowski (42:08)

Like, people screaming. Like, literally, dude. People screaming. Yeah, it's awesome. You got that jump scare. I literally went, oh. I went like, oh. Like I yelled.

Zach Kreger (42:20)

You know what sucks? I'm in Prague, dude. And Prague is beautiful and wonderful, but like, I. I wasn't in America for the release of the movie and I went to go see it opening weekend in Prague at some. At a mall near here and it was empty. I feel like something cool is happening right now and I'm just like, you.

Eddie (42:37)

Should just be barking outside the theater.

Henry Zebrowski (42:39)

Just be like, hey, that's my goddamn movie. Yeah, well, don't worry. I'm out here telling people I'm you.

Eddie (42:46)

Yeah.

Henry Zebrowski (42:47)

And celebrating your success. Don't worry. I. I'm the director of this film. I say that quite often. I'm used to saying that. Zach Kreger, thank you so much and good luck on Resident Evil.

Eddie (43:00)

Yeah, man. Go off a zombie. Zombie for us.

Henry Zebrowski (43:03)

Yeah, go, go. Punch Andrew Tate's cousin for me.

Zach Kreger (43:06)

Okay. Can we do this again? When, When, When Rez is done. Can we do this again?

Henry Zebrowski (43:10)

Of course.

Eddie (43:11)

Anything, anytime. I just want to hang. Be honest.

Henry Zebrowski (43:14)

Yeah, we'll hang out too. We'll just do like an actual social. Can we be friends?

Zach Kreger (43:21)

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Lacey Mosley (43:37)

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