10 Lessons From 20 Years of Marriage

Summary

**Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness: Episode Summary
Title: 10 Lessons From 20 Years of Marriage
Release Date: April 22, 2025

Introduction

In the inaugural episode of their rebranded podcast, Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness, award-winning content creators Kim and Penn Holderness delve into the intricacies of maintaining a successful marriage over two decades. Transitioning from their previous show, The Holderness Family Podcast, Laugh Lines focuses on aging gracefully together, finding humor in the journey of getting older, and sharing valuable insights from their personal experiences and listener contributions.

Rebranding to "Laugh Lines"

Kim and Penn kick off the episode by explaining the reason behind the podcast’s new name. Emphasizing their growing audience and the shift in their content towards topics like longevity, memory, and the physical changes that come with age, they express excitement about exploring these subjects with humor and authenticity.

Kim [05:12]: "We're putting it out there on Instagram. And you guys had some amazing voicemails and, of course, some really hilarious advice that came through Instagram."

10 Lessons From 20 Years of Marriage

The core of the episode revolves around the couple sharing ten pivotal lessons they've learned from their 20-year marriage, offering listeners both heartfelt advice and relatable anecdotes.

1. Don’t Get a Spray Tan on Your Wedding Day
   Kim humorously recounts her experience of getting an overly orange spray tan before her wedding, highlighting the importance of preparation and the lessons learned from past mistakes.

   Kim [20:43]: "Nothing says 2005 more than an Oompa Loompa."

2. It’s Not About the Nail: Prioritize Empathy Over Solutions
   Penn discusses the necessity of offering empathy rather than immediate solutions when a spouse is facing a problem, reflecting on a memorable plumbing disaster.

   Penn [24:04]: "When your spouse has a problem or something is wrong, the first thing she wants to hear is probably not a solution. What she wants to hear is empathy."

3. Schedule Sexy Time
   Acknowledging the challenge of maintaining intimacy amidst busy schedules and parenting, Kim and Penn advocate for intentionally scheduling intimate moments to keep the romantic spark alive.

   Kim [29:15]: "There’s no judgment. No judgment. If you are a couple that can go years... make sure you have it on the books."

4. Always Have a Coat, Even If You Don't Need One
   Emphasizing small acts of kindness, Penn shares his habit of always carrying a coat to offer his partner, fostering a sense of care and thoughtfulness in the relationship.

   Penn [43:31]: "Always have a coat, even if you don't need one. She might. And giving your partner your coat is awesome."

5. Figure Out Their Love Language and Do It
   Understanding and catering to each other’s love languages—Penn favors personal touch while Kim appreciates acts of service—has been crucial in maintaining their strong bond.

   Kim [37:38]: "My love language is acts of service... you have to make sure that you have that."

6. Separate Beds Are Okay
   Acknowledging different sleep habits, Kim and Penn discuss the benefits of sleeping in separate beds when needed, highlighting that prioritizing good sleep enhances their relationship.

   Penn [31:03]: "If you've got a separate bed in a separate room, maybe a good idea to have it ready and not feel any shame about it."

7. Supporting Each Other's Goals
   Transitioning from traditional roles, Penn reflects on the importance of supporting Kim’s personal and professional aspirations, fostering a true partnership.

   Penn [39:07]: "Supporting your goals—your individual goals, not just our dual goals."

8. Trust That the Person You’re in a Relationship With Wants the Best for You
   Building trust and believing in each other’s positive intentions has strengthened their relationship, allowing for honest feedback without fear of judgment.

   Kim [44:32]: "Trust that the person you're in a relationship with wants the best for you. They're on your team."

9. Have Your Own Life but Make Each Other a Priority
   Maintaining individuality while prioritizing the relationship has been key, allowing each partner to pursue personal interests without neglecting their bond.

   Kim [43:08]: "Have your own hobbies and life, but make each other a priority."

10. Allowed to Be Each Other’s Favorites
    Embracing the fact that they can be each other’s favorites, rather than always positioning their children as such, helps maintain a balanced family dynamic.

    Penn [45:23]: "You are allowed to be each other's favorite. And you can tell the kids that too."

Listener Voicemails and Audience Engagement

The episode features insightful and humorous voicemails from listeners, offering additional perspectives on sustaining long-term relationships. Notably, Katie from Westerville, Ohio, shares unconventional advice on resolving conflicts by "fighting naked," sparking both laughter and thoughtful discussion on the role of vulnerability in relationships.

Katie’s Voicemail [26:51]: "When all else fails and you can't resolve your arguments, fight naked."

Kim and Penn also respond to Kristen from Star Valley, Wyoming, who recommends setting boundaries around late-night discussions to prevent arguments from carrying over into bedtime.

Kristen’s Voicemail [46:38]: "We can't talk about anything that's too important or too emotionally charged past 9pm."

Segment: Are We Too Old for Theme Parks?

Exploring one of their popular segments, Kim and Penn debate whether they are too old for theme parks. While Kim enjoys the ambiance and walks around, Penn finds the rides less appealing due to motion sickness, concluding that while the rides may be too intense, the overall experience still holds value for them.

Kim [47:32]: "I was sweating. I have... I just can't do that."

Segment: Gen Z Slang of the Week

In their interactive segment aimed at bridging generational gaps, the Holdernesses explain the Gen Z term "throwing," which means hosting a party. They encourage listeners to incorporate the slang into conversations to connect better with younger family members.

Penn [53:10]: "Throwing means hosting a party. So use it in a sentence and report back."

Conclusion and Next Episode Preview

Wrapping up the episode, Kim and Penn express gratitude to their listeners and preview upcoming topics, such as understanding the term "bread back" and its significance. They emphasize the importance of humor and shared experiences in navigating the complexities of marriage and aging.

Kim [53:37]: "Next week we're going to talk about bread back and what that all means and why it is now important to me."

Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Kim and Penn blend humor with heartfelt advice, creating an engaging and relatable narrative for listeners navigating long-term relationships. Their candid discussions, coupled with listener interactions, provide a comprehensive look into sustaining a loving and supportive marriage over the years.

Notable Quotes:

• Kim [05:12]: "We're putting it out there on Instagram. And you guys had some amazing voicemails and, of course, some really hilarious advice that came through Instagram."

• Penn [24:04]: "When your spouse has a problem or something is wrong, the first thing she wants to hear is probably not a solution. What she wants to hear is empathy."

• Katie’s Voicemail [26:51]: "When all else fails and you can't resolve your arguments, fight naked."

• Kristen’s Voicemail [46:38]: "We can't talk about anything that's too important or too emotionally charged past 9pm."

---

Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness continues to evolve, promising more insightful and entertaining discussions in future episodes. Whether you’re in a long-term relationship or navigating the early stages of marriage, their blend of humor and wisdom offers valuable guidance for aging gracefully together.

Transcript

[Kim Holderness]

Hey, Penn, have you ever had this conversation? You meet someone, they say, hey, how you doing? And without thinking, you just reply, I'm good. You?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, of course. Right.

[Kim Holderness]

Well, I decided when I say I'm good, I want to meet it. That's why I'm using Headspace.

[Penn Holderness]

Great. So Headspace is the app that helps me and 100 million people with their mental health and well being with guided meditations, mindfulness practices, breathing and calming exercises, and so much more.

[Kim Holderness]

It reduces stress, boosts your mood, and helps you sleep better. By combining scientifically proven benefits of medit and mindfulness with modern practices.

[Penn Holderness]

The app has these customized personalized approaches to help you navigate through all of life's moments, whether they're big or small.

[Kim Holderness]

If you're a total newbie or have been meditating for years, there's always content for what you're going through.

[Penn Holderness]

And if you're short on time, Headspace has these quick on the go programs that help you get in the right headspace in just a few minutes.

[Kim Holderness]

With more than 1000 hours of mindfulness exercises, it's got the most complete meditation library I've ever seen. I can feel my mental health getting a boost by taking a few minutes minutes every day, listening to the programming, and reframing my relationship with stress and anxiety.

[Penn Holderness]

So feel good and mean it when you say it. For a limited time, get Headspace for free for 60 days. Just go to headspace.comholderness Yes. H E A D S P A C E.comholderness to unlock all of Headspace. Free for 60 days.

[Kim Holderness]

Headspace.comholderness hey, Penn, have you ever had this conversation? You meet someone, they say, hey, how you doing? And without thinking, you just reply, I'm good. You?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, of course. Right.

[Kim Holderness]

Well, I decided when I say I'm good, I want to meet it. That's why I'm using Headspace.

[Penn Holderness]

Great. So Headspace is the app that helps me and 100 million people with their mental health and well being with guided meditations, mindfulness practices, breathing and calming exercises, and so much more.

[Kim Holderness]

It reduces stress, boosts your mood, and helps you sleep better by combining scientifically prov benefits of meditation and mindfulness with.

[Penn Holderness]

Modern practices, the app has these customized personalized approaches to help you navigate through all of life's moments, whether they're big or small.

[Kim Holderness]

If you're a total newbie or have been meditating for years, there's always content for what you're going through.

[Penn Holderness]

And if you're short on time, Headspace has these quick on the Go programs that help you get in the right headspace in just a few minutes.

[Kim Holderness]

With more than 1000 hours of mindfulness exercises, it's got the most complete meditation library I've ever seen. I can feel my mental health getting a boost by taking a few minutes every day, listening to the programming, and reframing my relationship with stress and anxiety.

[Penn Holderness]

So feel good and mean it when you say it. For a limited time, get Headspace for free for 60 days. Just go to headspace.comholderness Yes. H E A-S-P-A C E.comholderness to unlock all of Headspace.

[Kim Holderness]

Free for 60 days headspace.comholderness Penn. You feeling that spring travel itch?

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, you know it. I'm looking outside. The sun is shining. It's perfect out. I'm ready to head to the beach.

[Kim Holderness]

Vacation season is almost upon us and this year I'm treating myself to luxe upgrades I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, like the lightweight European linen styles from $30, washable silk tops and comfy lounge sets with premium luggage options and stylish tote bags that carry it all.

[Kim Holderness]

The best part? All Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar. By partnering directly with top factories, Quint cuts the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us.

[Penn Holderness]

And Quint only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes, which we both love.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm definitely going to be grabbing an Italian leather pouch travel set to upgrade my makeup for our next vacay.

[Penn Holderness]

And I may need to grab like a new toiletry bag as well. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quince.comholderness for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order.

[Kim Holderness]

That's Q U I-n c e.comholderness to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comholderness hi everybody, I'm Kim Holderness.

[Penn Holderness]

And I'm Penn Holderness. And welcome to something completely new, different and hopefully successful.

[Kim Holderness]

We're calling it Laugh Lines. Can you tell we are on YouTube. But if you're listening to us, we're going to do our very best to describe everything you're seeing, if that's pertinent, because I know we have a very loyal listener named Emma who is like, hey, if you're going to video, you have to make sure I can also listen without watching.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes we are now simulcast. I think that's the right term. They started using that term in the 1970s, and it's still apropos.

[Kim Holderness]

We are only 50 years.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Behind the trend, guys. But if you're watching us on YouTube, thanks for coming along on our journey. Okay, laugh lines. Why the rebrand? You know, here's the thing. A lot of our content these days is about finding the comedy that goes with aging. Right.

[Penn Holderness]

The lighter side, if you will, sometimes the brighter side.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

But we're actually very excited about aging. We've also noticed, Kim, that our topics are becoming increasingly about being older. We know that a lot of our audience is growing with us, and we just thought it would be a fun, specific thing to talk about on our podcast, like, through the lens of a couple that together are, you know, a century old.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, my God, you just made me do math. My brain smoked a little bit. So we're still gonna have a lot of fun on this podcast, but we're gonna be covering really cool things like, you know, longevity and, um. God, my. And memory, because my memory. And we have, for example, bread back. Why am I gaining weight in weird places? Is an upcoming episode.

[Penn Holderness]

Should clarify. That was. I don't. I don't want to make sure. Like, that was something I noticed.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

As a. As a man. That I'm getting bread back.

[Kim Holderness]

So we're going to still be talking about relationship and parenting, but through the lens of our edge, and we're going to have a lot of fun. Can I also say, at the beginning of each episode, you're going to hear a brand new. What do we call it?

[Penn Holderness]

It's a show open, an opening song, a theme song. There's so many things that you really. That you weren't sure what that was called. That's okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, I.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, listen, there's a lot going on here. Like, let's. Let's. Let's back up a little bit. Okay. We're rebranding. We're doing something totally new, and on the same day, we're doing it on video for the first time. So just to paint a picture of this, usually this is Kim and I in. We are literally in our pajamas most of the time. Glasses, hats, hoodies, whatever. Not giving a flip about what we look like and just coming up here and kind of dragging our butts up here. And so, like, that has to feel different for you. Like, how do you feel right now?

[Kim Holderness]

Well, I have a bra on, and I'm wearing hard pants. And our friend and producer, Sam, is in the Room with us.

[Penn Holderness]

She's not normally with us.

[Kim Holderness]

She's not normally with us. So no pressure, Sam, but if you don't bring good energy.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. Let me tell you something. I've already. Don't take this the wrong Sam. Take this as a compliment. I've already forgotten that you're here. I mean, this in the night. No, you're doing a very good job. Because, listen, for this show, it's gonna be important that you and I can be just as open and just as raw as we've been in all these podcasts. And so Sam knows that the more aloof she's able to make herself, the better off it was. So until you said that, I was not thinking about the fact that she was in the room. And that is a bonus. Sam, would you want to say hi?

[Sam]

Sam, you did say I was perfect for this job because I'm professionally aloof. And as soon as you said that, I changed all my resumes on LinkedIn. It's my new tagline. No, I'm not here. You don't see me. I'm a ghost.

[Kim Holderness]

She actually does sort of blend in with the paint, like the shirt color she's wearing kind of blend. Okay. Anyway. Anyway, we're not going to.

[Sam]

You'll never hear from me again.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Penn Holderness]

We're going to hear from her a lot. She's also running the soundboard. So, like, when the show open happens.

[Kim Holderness]

Which is right now. So Penn wrote a brand new show open. We're gonna play it now. I don't think I've heard the final version, so let's hear it.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. Yeah, we get older every day. Got more wrinkles. That's okay. Yeah, we're laughing. When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we got fl. And check this out. We're so pro. Sam's gonna slowly sneak the bed down when we say hello, and she keep it right there up a little bit higher. And keep it just like that for the first, like, 30 seconds or so to give people kind of the good vibe. And then we'll slowly kind of. We'll kind of tail out on the music.

[Kim Holderness]

I love that song. It feels like an 80s sitcom open. You did such a good job. And Laugh Lines, name of our podcast. Also something we have on our face.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes. It's a double entendre.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Penn Holderness]

We're hoping that we'll laugh about getting older and there'll be lines of us laughing and also our face.

[Kim Holderness]

Speaking of laugh lines, we want to encourage you to write us@podcast theholdernessfamily.com or leave us a voicemail. I have to read this number because again, memory 323-364-3929. There'll be a link in the show notes for more info. And also we have some really fun segments planned. So stay tuned because today we're talking about are we too old for blank? And our Gen Z translation of the week.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. So this week we thought that it would be fun for us to talk about our marriage up to this point. Like how we doing? It's been almost 20 years. Very, very. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

The day this comes out, we will have been married for 20 years.

[Penn Holderness]

That's soon.

[Kim Holderness]

And that's a long time to be married.

[Penn Holderness]

It is 20 years. I don't know what it is about that, but when we got married after 10, I was like, man, I wonder what 20 is going to be like.

[Kim Holderness]

Don't you feel a little too young to have been married for 20 years?

[Penn Holderness]

I do. And that's a good thing, right? Sometimes I feel too old. And that's like the physical sides, like the farty bloated kind of cheese side and the hungover after one beer for three days side. But emotionally and just energy wise, like, I feel young.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And with you, with love, I feel young.

[Kim Holderness]

The fact that you sort of forgot that it was our anniversary, I know you didn't forget it. The reason, the whole reason we're doing this episode sort of slips your mind. I'm going to forgive because I have something to admit to you. Our anniversary is on April 22nd.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

For April 23rd, I had scheduled a colonoscopy.

[Penn Holderness]

Wait, really?

[Kim Holderness]

And my anniversary gift to you is that I canceled.

[Penn Holderness]

Rescheduled or canceled? Okay, okay.

[Kim Holderness]

I rescheduled my colonoscopy because.

[Penn Holderness]

Well. Right. Because our anniversary would have been you, yourself, nothing, the entire time because it's.

[Kim Holderness]

The day before it says eternity, like some colon blow. So that is my gift to you.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, thank you.

[Kim Holderness]

Is that I rescheduled my colonoscopy. I don't know why, When? Because you have to schedule them six months in advance. I thought, you know what? April 22nd is my anniversary. April 23rd. Perfect time to get my budget.

[Penn Holderness]

You'll have napped.

[Kim Holderness]

I love napping. Great. Yeah. So I rescheduled that for you. Oh my gosh, the cackle. I cackled when I saw that on my calendar. Anyway, we are going to be talking today about some lessons we have learned. And because this is laugh lines, we put it out there on Instagram. And you guys had some amazing voicemails and, of course, some really hilarious advice that came through Instagram.

[Penn Holderness]

Today's theme, it's through line, if you will, will be 10 things that Kim and I have learned from 20 years of marriage. We have not given each other our list, so it's going to be five from each of us. So we'll be discovering along with you what the other one has learned over the last 20 years. I can't wait to hear your list, so go ahead. But first, we did make a video that you can listen to or you can watch about newlyweds then versus now.

[Kim Holderness]

We should start each day with a kiss and then gaze into each other's eyes for at least five minutes. Where are my glasses? Is that you? I know it's you because I can smell your dragon breath from over here.

[Penn Holderness]

Gee, I really need to fart. But we are newlyweds, and I cannot let you know that I am human and must expel gas from my body, or else I will go to the hospital.

[Kim Holderness]

Come on.

[Penn Holderness]

I mean, you do that all day. Ever since the hero, like, it's been building up. My pants fit better. Could you guys tell which ones the newlyweds were? We did a special voice.

[Kim Holderness]

I sound like a beep in all of those, but it's not untrue.

[Penn Holderness]

What was your favorite part? Like, what's. What kind of spoke to you the most from that video?

[Kim Holderness]

I think the most accurate is the farting.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Because now it's like, I can tell when Pen's about to release because he will, like, lean over. And when we first started dating, we're newlyweds, like, that you would leave the room to expel gas or just hold it in.

[Penn Holderness]

I had a buddy. I'm just going to out him. His name is Scott. He's like, one of my faves. He's in my wedding. He. His first date with his wife. He had to go to the hospital.

[Kim Holderness]

Afterwards because he was holding it.

[Penn Holderness]

Because he was holding in his farts. And so that was one piece of advice he gave to me. He was like, just fart. Just leave the room or do something. Otherwise, you're gonna end up in the hospital if you really like a girl. So that was. Yeah, that was funny. Okay, before we get into our top 10 things that we have learned since being married, our producer, Anne Marie Tapke, apparently has a very special voicemail for us. I do not know what this is. Let's. Let's find out what this special voicemail is.

[Anne Marie Tapke]

Hi, Kim. And Ken, this is mom, and as.

[Penn Holderness]

You know, Kim's mom.

[Anne Marie Tapke]

I have been married for quite some time, and I always give people two pieces of relationship advice whenever they ask for it. Number one is be kind to one another. I mean, that sounds basic and that sounds simple, but make it your hobby to be kind to one another all the time. Take their coffee cup into the sink. Even if they don't ask, just say something nice to them. Smile when you don't have to. It is so simple and yet so basic, and it really, really, really is wonderful. The second thing, you're probably not going to want to hear, but I say it all the time to people. Sex is important. You guys always talk about what your problems are. Work through them more than anything else. Do it. Love you.

[Kim Holderness]

Bye. First of all, I have tears in my eyes because there's something about your mom's voice. Right. And my mom gives the best advice.

[Penn Holderness]

She does.

[Kim Holderness]

I call her every time. And she did. She told me the day we got married about being kind. And I don't always follow through, but I try to. Like, I really try to be kind. So, like, on my bad days, this is me actually trying to be kind. So I do follow that. And I think that's such special advice. Yeah. My mom just gave us sex advice, so.

[Penn Holderness]

And that's okay, except for the fact that if you have an active imagination.

[Kim Holderness]

I don't.

[Penn Holderness]

The first thing that you think about.

[Kim Holderness]

Is my mom having sex. But you know what? She had to because I'm here.

[Penn Holderness]

That's true. And as we say to our kids, your. Your parents had sex at least twice. But you don't have to know about any more. Any more about that.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you, Mom. That is. But very, very good advice. I love that. How did that make you feel?

[Penn Holderness]

Fine. Like, she's not my mom. So that was totally okay about the visualizing stuff. I know this about your mom. I've seen her kindness, and I've seen her and her husband being kind to each other. And I thought the most important thing that she said was sometimes it's not easy, even when it's hard. Like, smile even if you don't feel like it. I think she said. And there is some real value to that. I think you can be true to yourself and be a mature person and ask for what you want, but also just occasionally smile even when you don't feel like it, and do something kind when you don't feel like it. And it's the great resetter.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Right. Like if someone is feeling stress or you know, emotionally sad or whatever it is. Like a kindness can help reset you.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, so I have five things. Okay, so should we go back and forth? Mix in some voicemail?

[Penn Holderness]

I love it. Let's do that.

[Kim Holderness]

Hey Pen.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah?

[Kim Holderness]

You know I love a good spring refresh. Deep cleaning the house, putting winter clothes away and getting prepped for the warmer days ahead.

[Penn Holderness]

No, I remember just this weekend carrying all the bulky jackets up to storage.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Penn Holderness]

B O L L a n d branch.com Holderness to save 15% exclusions apply. See site for details. Are you looking for a new podcast for your kids? Maybe something to hold their attention on car trips?

[Kim Holderness]

We know there are a lot of kids podcasts out there, but we found something we think you're gonna love.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, while most of those podcasts are made and hosted by adults, we found one that's for kids. Made by kids and hosted by kids.

[Kim Holderness]

Wild Interest.

[Penn Holderness]

Wild Interest. It is super well produced with original music, great sound design and a whole audio mission designed to calm and regulate kids.

[Kim Holderness]

You know, we talk a lot about ADHD in our podcast and one really important thing you can do to thrive with ADHD is regulate your nervous system.

[Penn Holderness]

Absolutely. When people get dysregulated, even people without adhd actually, Kim, it can snowball and make regular life, well, difficult. Well, Wild Interest is actually designed to help regulate kids nervous systems. There's Calm music and thoughtful subject matters. And the vocal tone and cadence are all made with the same result in mind. Calm and happy kids, parents.

[Kim Holderness]

Try the Wild Interest podcast. You'll be hooked. And it's in its second season, so there's tons of episodes to enjoy.

[Penn Holderness]

Wild Interest. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Penn Holderness]

And right now, IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products. Plus they're going to give you free shipping. So to get your 20% off, text our last name. Holderness to 64,000. Text Holderness to 64,000.

[Kim Holderness]

That's Holderness to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. Okay, I'm going to say my number one piece of advice. The number one thing I have learned after being married for 20 years, don't get a spray tan on the day of your wedding.

[Penn Holderness]

And it's your number one thing.

[Kim Holderness]

Number one thing I've learned. I have some pictures that I'm going to show you. Pen, nothing says 2005 more than an Oompa Loompa.

[Penn Holderness]

Orange person.

[Kim Holderness]

I looked orange. You are regular flesh colored. I am an Oompa Loompa.

[Penn Holderness]

Can I say something? Yeah. You may have married the right person because you look the exact same color as me.

[Kim Holderness]

You're colorblind. Okay. Sam is laughing.

[Penn Holderness]

Sam does. Is that this? That's from. I'm looking at this and we both look a color of tan.

[Sam]

Okay. The. The thing is that I think you're red from nervousness or like sweat from the wedding day. And Kim is just spray tan. Okay, those are two.

[Penn Holderness]

But they're different. Those are different colors.

[Sam]

They're different colors.

[Penn Holderness]

One orange.

[Sam]

One is red.

[Kim Holderness]

Well, and I was wearing this, like, pretty dress that, like, I, I, we scrimped and saved to afford. It was like $2,000, which is insane. Right. I took off the dress at the end of the day, and it was orange on the side.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, the, oh, the actual dress. See, you did not say anything to me about that. I did not notice that. I noticed that you were tanner and you look beautiful.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm so glad you're colorblind.

[Penn Holderness]

So are you saying everybody else was looking at you like you were like, did people make comments?

[Kim Holderness]

It was 2005, so I think everybody had it. Yeah, but it just, it just screams early 2000s to me. So if you were going to get a spray tan, give yourself a few days for the. Just for an extra shower or two.

[Penn Holderness]

Man, what a number one.

[Kim Holderness]

I know.

[Penn Holderness]

Do we think that spray tan technology has improved in the last 20 years to keep you less orange?

[Kim Holderness]

Wow. It is so good. Now they'll come to your house. Like, the color looks more natural. 10 out of 10. But before, they just took a fire hose of chemicals to you.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And that's what I looked like. So that's. That's a lesson I've learned. Okay, you're up.

[Penn Holderness]

Number one for me is it's not about the nail. Let me explain that. There was a skit about 20 years ago, like, when the Internet was just starting to play videos, where this woman had a nail sticking out of her head, and she was talking to her boyfriend saying, you know, there's so much pressure and it's so hard. And the guy's like, could it. Could it just be because of the nail on your head? And the woman kept saying, it's not about the nail. And it's. So they went back and forth, and she became furious with him because he was trying to solve a problem, even though it was a very obvious problem. It was not only funny, but it's a stentorian loud message, which is, when your spouse has a problem or something is wrong, the first thing she wants to hear is probably not a solution. What she wants to hear is empathy. What she wants to hear is, I'm so sorry that that's going on. You might even want to say, tell me more and hear more about it, because nobody wants. As much as it seems that way in fairy tales, nobody wants their spouse to sweep in and rescue them. What they'd like to do is have some empathy and potentially work through the problem on their own. Right.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And that took me a while just because that's. I just thought relationships were. I am a knight in shining armor, right? Right.

[Kim Holderness]

It took me a while to even vocalize that. Sure. Some marriage counseling. I'll give a really good example. Yesterday, if you are a follower of this podcast, you know that we had a plumbing explosion.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, God.

[Kim Holderness]

November.

[Penn Holderness]

The bad one.

[Kim Holderness]

A bad one. And it was $50,000 of damage and legal stuff with the city. It was just. It was a nightmare. This weekend, I discovered the floor of my closet was soaking wet because our shower had started leaking. And the plumber came over yesterday, pulled everything back and said we might have to rip out the whole shower because it had been leaking. So I just. What are you gonna do? So I went downstairs and I laid down on the floor between, like, the couch and the coffee table because I just needed to, like, be safe and small. And Penn came over and he started rubbing my feet, and he was just like. He didn't have a solution. He was. He was like, I know. It's gonna be okay. We're gonna be fine. He was just doing the reassuring thing. And he was like, this is really. He was just, like, confirming, like, this is really hard. This is really. This is a lot after, you know, the plumbing stuff we've been through before. I know you're overwhelmed right now. He's just validating, and it was so good.

[Penn Holderness]

Can I jump in on something else that I learned from Kim? I don't know if this is specific to your type of brain, but my. My instinct used to be when. When that was going on. And I want to say, I know times are hard. I would then list all of the things that are hard. I would be like, we got this going on. Got this going on. Got this. Just to say, like, I know you're going through a lot. She does not like it when I list things that are going wrong. Is that. I don't know. I don't. I don't know why that's my default. I don't do it anymore.

[Kim Holderness]

But if it helps you keep track of the things that are hard, that's great. Hearing it.

[Penn Holderness]

Right? I was. All I'm trying to do is say you're so strong for. For going through all this stuff, but that does not now sit well.

[Kim Holderness]

Do not need to hear it.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, but thank you. But you handled it really well yesterday. Just validating. Yes. This is hard. We're going to get through it. And you didn't say. They're like. You didn't, like, jump up and sweep in. You just, like, validated why it was so hard.

[Penn Holderness]

Well, thanks for being patient with me over 20 years so that I Could learn that because I was not great at this the first few years. I was like, okay, there's a problem. I am. Fix it, Felix. I'm going to fix it. And that's not what you're really supposed to do.

[Kim Holderness]

Right?

[Penn Holderness]

That's number one for me. Do you want to take a call?

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, yes.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, my gosh. So we're gonna go to the Laugh Line's Laugh Line. That's our Laugh Line song. We took some lessons, life lessons from our friends, our friends of the podcast, and they gave us some examples of what they've learned over the their marriage.

[Anne Marie Tapke]

Hi, I'm Katie from Westerville, Ohio, and I've been married to don for 35 years. 10 rules of fighting that we were given when we first got married. Some of them were, don't bring up past history. No name calling. The last rule which priest gave us, which is very important, is when all else fails and you can't resolve your arguments, fight naked.

[Penn Holderness]

She didn't. That's it. She. That was her mic drop. Fight naked.

[Sam]

I do want to highlight. You said you heard the word priest. Yes, Gave her that one.

[Penn Holderness]

Her priest said. Okay, so should we. Let's unpack this.

[Kim Holderness]

That. That does go into a piece of advice. We got in the Instagram comments from our friend Brooks Bell, who said, you should take a shower. Just shower together. Because just seeing each other naked is very. It helps connect you.

[Penn Holderness]

That doesn't work for us because all, like, really, all that happens is that your breasts are incredibly clean. And I don't remember any other part of it.

[Sam]

And this is my last episode.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Penn Holderness]

See, I forgot Sam was here. It's working, Sam, you're doing great. So now I know she's here again.

[Kim Holderness]

I love that advice. I wonder if they've ever done it because the love. You love, you mean it. The last thing. If we are upset with each other, I'm sure you feel the same way. If you're annoyed with me, the last thing you want to do is, like, take your pants off.

[Penn Holderness]

That is correct. I am wondering why the priest said that. It's probably genius. Maybe it's. It's because you are. You have nothing to hide. Behind you are. You are showing your own vulnerability. I guess.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And I would love to know if there are other people who have heard this advice who have tried it. Those of you who do listen to the podcast know that I. I don't have a great body image of myself. Like, I'm okay with my body, but I don't love it.

[Kim Holderness]

You're so hot.

[Penn Holderness]

I know. I'm glad that you like it. It's like a weird thing for a 50 year old male to admit. So for that reason, like if we were fighting naked, I would be very self conscious.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Penn Holderness]

I don't know if that would work for me.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, me too. But I love that and I would love to hear more. So call the laugh line if you have fought naked.

[Penn Holderness]

What a great start to the laugh line.

[Kim Holderness]

Love it. First one. Okay.

[Penn Holderness]

All right. So do you want to do number two?

[Kim Holderness]

I'll do number two.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, what do you got?

[Kim Holderness]

Number two? Schedule sexy time.

[Penn Holderness]

Surprisingly, I'm on board with this.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes. Yeah, I think in the very beginning we both resisted it because it's not.

[Penn Holderness]

Spontaneous and we wanted everything to be like a porno, you know, like we wanted it to be, well, sorry or.

[Kim Holderness]

Like, you know, don't need a handyman come into my door. It. I wanted it to be. Yeah. Like it was. And we have two kids, they're very busy, they're going all over the place. My daughter has her senior year. She has a free period at the end of the day and sometimes she comes home early and like so we just have to get it on the books. And. Yeah. That ensures that as my mom recommended.

[Penn Holderness]

It happens and as Peggy did recommend. We'll just remind, remind you of that from experience.

[Kim Holderness]

Mama knows best.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, no, it's. I think I resisted it maybe even more because especially as the guy again like wanting to sweep you off your feet. That sort of romantic part. Really. And I have another one of these that'll I think didn't make it under my top five, which is that there's first of all, yes, schedule sexy time. But also there are different types of closeness that you discover.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

When you are married for 20 years. There's physical closeness and that is important. You have to make sure that you have that. But also there's emotional closeness, there's mental closeness, there's the, the closeness of, of empathy and all these other things. And so, so I mean, you know, sometimes you're feeling those other bits of closeness and that's sustaining you. But really, I mean, you need to have sex.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

As your mom said. And even if you have to schedule it because our lives are absolutely bananas right now.

[Kim Holderness]

No judgment. No judgment. If you are a couple that can go years. Because we know those couples that go, they're like the best of friends and.

[Penn Holderness]

They have different types of closeness.

[Kim Holderness]

They have different types of closeness. But that's probably not going to work.

[Penn Holderness]

Boy, we're doing a lot of intimacy sort of things here. To start out, my number two, and we've talked about this before, and I'm okay with this. Separate beds are okay and some sometimes necessary. We have learned that over 20 years, people make funny noises at night. Sometimes you've got a light sleeper and a heavy sleeper who are together. Sometimes it's not even snoring that causes this to happen. But if you've got a separate bed in a separate room, maybe a good idea to have it ready and not feel any shame about it. Because when you go to sleep, you're trying to sleep.

[Kim Holderness]

I am a very light sleeper.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

And you, when you go to the guest room, if you're out later, you play tennis, whatever. If you're out later, later, because I.

[Penn Holderness]

Don'T want to wake you up when come in to be specific.

[Kim Holderness]

So you'll go there. I'll walk in the next morning to, like, wake you up, check on you. And you still have episodes of 30 Rock blaring on your computer. You could see through just about anything, which is a gift. It's a superpower. So I 100% recommend sleeping in separate beds at. When you need it. When you need it.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. I mean, I know people who have just said that that's what our relationship's going to be, and I don't see any problem with that either. I mean, like, whatever works for people works for people. It was the first time. I'm again, a lot of first times here. But the first time I went and slept in a separate bed, I woke up feeling, like, guilty and like, oh, my gosh, what's going on here? But no, sleep is important.

[Kim Holderness]

Do you know if I could design a new house, which I talk about all the time, I think what I would do is have this, like a main bedroom area, but that there would be like a through the closet, like another kind of like, dark sleeping cave chamber. Because I also cave. I love it pitch black. Like, windowless room that's like. It's pitch black. It's just plush and wonderful bedding. And that. That could be my sleeping option. If you're. If you're snoring, if you're up late, like, I could go there and just be in a cave. I think I would put that.

[Penn Holderness]

Let's do it.

[Kim Holderness]

Let's do it.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, let's. Let's design that house as soon as we can afford to buy a new house in the third of never. Okay, let's go back to the laugh line. This one is titled I know that I'm right.

[Anne Marie Tapke]

Hi. This is Susie. We'll be married 32 years. And my best advice is, is that I don't need him to know that I'm right. I gave up arguing about it because I know that I'm right. I don't need him to know that I'm right.

[Kim Holderness]

I am without words. That is amazing. That is amazing advice.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. So tell me why I struggle with this.

[Kim Holderness]

Obviously, yes, I. I will pull receipts. I will. We have gotten into fights on this podcast where I've had him stop. I've had him rewind and listen to something he has said. I am petty. I need to be right all the time. So that just blew my mind that I could know I'm right. But you don't have to. I really want you to know that I'm. But that is really good advice.

[Penn Holderness]

It's good advice. You're saying it's good advice on the. You're saying it's good advice in the sense that she doesn't need validation for this.

[Kim Holderness]

I just. She's my hero.

[Penn Holderness]

Right. And so it. For me to say, you're right, that's not good. Or is. Or is this.

[Kim Holderness]

I love it when you say I'm right.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, so this is only when you could potentially be incorrect.

[Kim Holderness]

No, I. That won't happen.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. But, like, if I don't know how to comment on this part, there are.

[Kim Holderness]

For example, there are times when you're like, well, every time you say this, this happens. I'm like, not every time. Not every time.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. That's true. Hyperbole is one thing. There's two ways that that piece of advice can be taken. One way is I don't give a beep what you think I'm right. And I don't need to even listen to you. I am drowning you out. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Which I don't think that's what.

[Penn Holderness]

That's not what's. But to be. To be honest, like, I kind of heard that, and I was like, oh, is that what she meant? Now, what exactly do you think she means with this? It means. It means your validation and your opinions are. They mean too much to me, and I've got to let that go.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. That's what you're saying I heard.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

I heard that this silly argument about who's taking the kids where and what you said you were going to do versus whatever doesn't actually. Who is right and who remembers the thing correctly. That doesn't matter. Let's just get on with her.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, that's interesting. So, like, when we're. When we're going to the videotape, as we say it in our relationship, because that does happen when there's an argument. One person sees it one way, one goes the other way, and they say, let's go to instant replay.

[Kim Holderness]

And I should stop doing that. And just know that's the lessons you want to learn.

[Penn Holderness]

Just know that you were right. Well, I mean, do you want to.

[Kim Holderness]

Be right, or do you want to be at peace? And I want to be right and at peace.

[Penn Holderness]

Right.

[Kim Holderness]

But me, I think that a lot of our fights extend because I. I literally bring receipts. I bring snapshots. I bring audio and video to the relationship.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And.

[Penn Holderness]

Well, we both do.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

I mean, I'll say something that you. There's a type of behavior that I don't love of you. And you'll say, give me one reason. Give me one example. Specific, specific example. And if I don't have one off the top of my head, you're like, no, meaningless. And if I do, you're like, that's one. Give me another one. And I was like, you just asked for one.

[Kim Holderness]

I know it's petty, and I hate it, and it's. I. I need to get over it.

[Penn Holderness]

So I kind of love that you took it that way. I don't know if that's what she meant, but I love that you took it that way because it's showing growth.

[Kim Holderness]

May need her to call back and explain.

[Penn Holderness]

I know exactly. Her and the naked fighting this. We're off to a great start on the laugh line.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, number three for me, figure out their love language and freaking do it. So Pen's love language is personal touch. I am more acts of service. And so the love language matters for the person. Like, I need him to take my car and get the oil changed. Like, I need him to do the dishes. Like, that, to me, shows love. That's not his first instinct, but he also loves. He just likes to be touched at all times. There are literally moments we're on the couch, you know, watching a show, and I'll, like, throw my foot over and I'll touch his leg. I'll be like, physical touch. Yeah, I'm doing it. It counts.

[Penn Holderness]

It's nice, though. Like, even now, I'm enjoying it.

[Kim Holderness]

It's my shoe.

[Penn Holderness]

I don't give a crap. It's part of your body. It's connected to your foot, which is connected to you.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, okay, you're next.

[Penn Holderness]

Well, so I'm going to skip ahead to. To another one, because it's very similar to yours. I actually wrote, anticipating her needs is nature's strongest aphrodisiac. We don't have to get into details.

[Kim Holderness]

But like, you clean out the garage, it's on.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. I mean, not just that. I. I think it's a lot of what your mother said earlier on, like, bring him a cup of coffee sometimes in the morning. And I think that works even for people who aren't acts of service people. Everyone, I think, likes it when you anticipate someone's needs or wants. And that doesn't include buying. Always. Doesn't always include buying clothing for her birthday. Because if you don't know how to anticipate their needs or know what it is that they want to wear, sometimes you can ask them for it. This is more like basic stuff that needs to be done around the house. I'm saying that like. Like. But getting you a surprise.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, yeah, does.

[Penn Holderness]

Like. That's. That's a different category.

[Kim Holderness]

I don't need that.

[Penn Holderness]

Right.

[Kim Holderness]

I don't need a surprise.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. Your surprise is the. The air conditioning filters have all been changed out. And there was that. That crack. Crack in the bathroom wall. And I caulked it. I mean, guys, so that again, just. This is exactly what you said about the love language. Yours is acts of service.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. Back to the laugh line. This is fun. We're just kind of going, we're, We're.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

But the last two have been great. So let's go with supporting each other's goals.

[Anne Marie Tapke]

Hey, good morning. My long term relationship magic has been in supporting each other's goals. I don't get to really judge or assess whether I like what he's doing. I mean, within limits, right? But if it's a goal and a good intention of his, I support it.

[Kim Holderness]

I love that.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, I love.

[Kim Holderness]

You know me, I love a goal.

[Penn Holderness]

Especially when we started our business together. I'm just trying to be fully honest. Since we're sitting here, I felt the need especially when our kids were younger. Just. Let's just fill in the blank of whatever traditional family nonsense I may have been raised to believe. It's not nonsense. My mom was amazing and she raised both of our kids. I.

[Kim Holderness]

Both of her kids.

[Penn Holderness]

She did not raise both of my kids. She raised both of her kids.

[Kim Holderness]

I would have loved her to read. I mean, she got off to it.

[Penn Holderness]

She got us off to a good start with. With our kids as well. But I did feel the need to be the alpha and the breadwinner in the family very early. On. And how'd that go? I think it went okay, but I think that there was a particular point in time in this company when I was so fixated on that I was probably losing track of our most valuable asset, which wasn't me. It was you. And so there, like, over time, I think I. I wouldn't say it was an ego check, but, like, a reality check that, okay, this is not only a true. Like, it needs to be a true partnership, and she needs to have goals beyond parenting, and we need to really pay attention to those and make sure they're okay. But she might even be better at this than I am. So. So that. That has caused me to really want to focus on. Yes. Supporting your goals. Like, your. Your individual goals, not just our. Like, our dual goals.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Because that's. That's the other thing. Right. If we like, our dual goals is one thing. You have your own goals that I need to support. Like, I like that.

[Kim Holderness]

My goal to be a game show host wife. Really Leaning back into the gender stereotypes.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. I mean, your feminism is leaving your body right now.

[Kim Holderness]

The feminism helps off my body. I joke about this all the time, but I think if I say it enough, I can put it into the universe. You're like Pat Sajak, how he worked, like, six weeks a year. Probably, like, dump truck full of money. Like, his wife was probably, you know, just having a great time.

[Penn Holderness]

It's. What do you think? She's.

[Kim Holderness]

No, I'm kidding. I love work, and I love my job, and I think I'll always work, but, man, that's kind of a nice life.

[Penn Holderness]

Anyway, real quick, when you think of Pat Sajak's wife, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?

[Kim Holderness]

Go a pool where she's sitting.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. Mine is. I know it's not, but I'm like, Vanna White.

[Kim Holderness]

It's not his wife.

[Penn Holderness]

I know that, but it's just like. I just imagine that Pat Sajak's wife lives Vanna White.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Penn Holderness]

Because they've been together for so long.

[Kim Holderness]

When they announced he was going to retire, I called her agent. Like, you should definitely put Pen up for that job. And they're like, they want somebody who's actually famous. So who's hosting it now? I don't know, but I think it's something they wanted. Like, somebody that people actually know.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. I was not qualified to host that show. I could spell. No, but there's a lot of people who've spent a lot more time going through the.

[Kim Holderness]

Is. There is, like, a traject for game show hosts. Like, you work your way up, you.

[Penn Holderness]

Probably work on a smaller game show to work your way up.

[Kim Holderness]

Where is this smaller game?

[Penn Holderness]

The Game Show Network? I don't know.

[Kim Holderness]

I don't know. Hey, Sam, who does host Wheel of Fortune right now?

[Sam]

Sorry, I was looking up Pat Sajak's wife. She's gorgeous.

[Kim Holderness]

Of course.

[Penn Holderness]

Does she look like Vanna White?

[Sam]

She's 18 years younger.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Just throwing that out there.

[Sam]

No judgment. Just.

[Kim Holderness]

No judgment. Just. Good for her.

[Penn Holderness]

Pat Z. Jack's a trip if you ever heard him on an interview. He does seem fundamentally happy.

[Kim Holderness]

I bet he is. He's got a dump truck full of money and a young wife.

[Sam]

I'm seeing. Ryan Seacrest is the new wheel.

[Penn Holderness]

That is the least surprising thing I've ever heard.

[Kim Holderness]

That is he's going to run out of things to host.

[Penn Holderness]

No, he's great. He's been cloned several times.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, no, like, we're good. Yeah, yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

There's. There's several Ryan sequels.

[Kim Holderness]

I say he's great, as if I know him. I don't know him, but.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, let's do our last two, then we'll go back to the left line.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Penn Holderness]

Or what? No, we've got four more. Sorry.

[Kim Holderness]

Similarly, to have your uncle support them. Have your own hobbies and life, but make each other a priority. Like, I think it's important that you have your tennis friends and you have all your guys. Trips. I can take a girls trip. I'm learning to play mahjong. Like that. I have these activities. You have your own life. But then make each other priority.

[Penn Holderness]

I love that I have no notes.

[Kim Holderness]

No notes.

[Penn Holderness]

That's another thing that it took us a while to figure out. I want to make it clear, like, all of these things have taken time to figure out. That's why we're saying that we learn them. Yep. My number four is always have a coat, even if you don't need one. She might. And giving a chick your coat is bomb.

[Kim Holderness]

Do we say chick?

[Penn Holderness]

Well, everything else was so chivalrous, I thought I could get away with it.

[Kim Holderness]

Sam, do we always say.

[Sam]

Do we say bomb?

[Penn Holderness]

No, we definitely.

[Sam]

What year are we in?

[Penn Holderness]

No, that was. Yeah. Bomb was, like, 10 years ago.

[Kim Holderness]

No, we're 2005 still. Sam, we're in the year of our wedding, so.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. So always have a coat, even if you don't need one. She might. And giving your partner your coat is awesome. Is fetch.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, we're trying to make fetch happen. Okay. And then here's my last One, trust that the person you're in a relationship with wants the best for you. They're on your team, and you can trust their feedback. I had to. It took me a minute. Like when you gave me feedback or something was happening, I had to rewire my brain because I thought, yeah, I just had never been in a partnership where the person, like, what's in it for you? Like, you're not trying to, like, it's. You only want the best for me. So it just took me a minute to realize that you, I. You only have positive intentions for me. And so I needed to trust that. And that took me a minute.

[Penn Holderness]

I'm sure I was the same. Feedback is really, really hard, especially when you work in a creative medium. And the person who is telling you that you could use a little bit of work on this is also the person that you share your life with.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

That. It takes some time to learn that samesies.

[Kim Holderness]

And you're not doing it just to hurt my feelings.

[Penn Holderness]

No.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

My final one is you are allowed to be each other's favorite. And you can tell the kids that, too.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, we do.

[Penn Holderness]

You can tell, like, they're, they're always like, who's your favorite person? Your mother?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

I. I think most times kids are expecting to hear that the answer is them. And we love our kids, but we're allowed to be each other's favorites. And as long as that is the arrangement, I think our kids will benefit from that down the road when they partner up with somebody else potentially in.

[Kim Holderness]

The future, it goes pen sunny. And then the kids are. The kids are down.

[Penn Holderness]

Right?

[Kim Holderness]

I'm kidding. Are we going to hit the laugh line one more time?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, one more trip to the laugh line. Sam, what do you like? What's your favorite? We've got. We've got Nothing serious. After 9pm Go to bed angry.

[Anne Marie Tapke]

Hi, this is Kristen Walters. I'm from Star Valley, Wyoming. My husband and I have been married for. It'll be 11 years this summer. And I'm kind of like, Kim, I really like to go to bed earlier than my husband, and I get kind of grumpy. My husband came up with this rule that we can't talk about anything that's too important or too emotionally charged past 9pm I love that.

[Penn Holderness]

That is dead on for us, too.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes, that's.

[Penn Holderness]

That's us.

[Kim Holderness]

Even if he asked me, like, hey, what are we doing? Like, can we book this thing in two weeks? I'm like, I can't. I can't look at a calendar. It's 9:00.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And for us, the next layer is that there's work stuff that happens. We talk a lot to people on the West Coast. So there are things that are happening at 9pm in our lives and we just make the decision that we're going to put a boundary around that. I think we even go closer to 8pm for those decisions. Right. We say, guys, we're going to shut it down now.

[Kim Holderness]

Nobody is going to die if we don't make a decision about a font for something right this second.

[Penn Holderness]

All right, time for our next segment on Laugh Lines. It's called are we too old for blank? Kim and I have been asking this question just about every week, realizing that there, there are things in life that we are just too old for. Not necessarily because we're physically impaired, but because we just don't want to do them anymore.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes. I'm going to pose this question for you, Penn. I spent two days in a theme park with my son at Universal Studios. Just a mother son. Wonderful trip. Are we too old for theme parks?

[Penn Holderness]

This music's really pumping me up. It's like old timey music. It's how I feel right now when I'm about to say some of these things.

[Kim Holderness]

So I.

[Penn Holderness]

We are too old for theme park rides.

[Kim Holderness]

I love a theme park. Yeah, I love a theme. I love a theme party. I love the commitment, like going through the Harry Potter area. I love Disney World. I love all theme parks. I love walking through them. I went on these rides that fly upside down and down. My brain like my, the equilibrium in my head. I felt so nauseous. I was texting you. I'm like, I think I'm gonna have to give up. I think I'm, I think I'm done.

[Penn Holderness]

The theme parks, the, the model is, you're paying quite a bit of money and the rides are all included once you get in, Right. If you're not riding the rides on the theme parks, you have to look at the price tag and say, is this actually worth it? Our kids love theme parks.

[Kim Holderness]

I do too.

[Penn Holderness]

I am with you that I think we are getting too old for theme parks. And look, Disney's one of those things where it's like the magic and the vibe and like seeing the castle and all that other stuff. Like that's really why you go, is the magic of the kingdom, Is it that magical for like a $350 Park Hopper, like intro thing? You think it is.

[Kim Holderness]

So what we need to do find is I just need to find and I love rides. I just need to find better Dramamine solutions. And that's where I need you guys to call me with that. I just. Because I had, I was taking Dramamine. I had a wrist thing. I had little.

[Penn Holderness]

And you were still a mess.

[Kim Holderness]

I was a mess.

[Penn Holderness]

I just don't think, honestly. And for me, like, the VR stuff, the 3D VR stuff, hard stop. Forget it. There was one in Star Wars. It was like a Millennium Falcon where your kids drove it and you were in. It's, It's. This is your basic nightmare, okay? The most car sick that you would ever get is being in the backseat when a bad driver is in the front seat. So we were in this Millennium Falcon and one person was in charge of going up and down and the other person was in charge of going left and right. And when you're a kid, you're not going to gingerly drive it. It was like Kim crawled out of the ride as it was like. And they were like, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am. Like, as it was still going on, got out of her seatbelt and crawled on the floor out of the ride.

[Kim Holderness]

I was sweating. I have. I was like, I was making a deal with God. I was like, if you could make me just feel better right now, I will go to church every Sunday. So it was. I just can't. I just can't do that. But I love to walk around. And that's what was explaining to PC. Like, he goes, oh. Because I did do a lot of the rides. I just, I discovered I can't do the ones that go upside down anymore. But I could do like Hagrids and I could do the other ones, but I just like, I enjoy walking around. I enjoy hearing the music.

[Penn Holderness]

You can walk around outside for free. Sorry, now I'm sounding old.

[Sam]

I would like a button.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Sam]

When I don't agree with you guys.

[Penn Holderness]

Let's get it. We'll get it ready for you.

[Sam]

Agree with Disney not being the most magical place.

[Kim Holderness]

It is the magical. Most magical place.

[Penn Holderness]

Just jump in. Tell everyone your age, Sam.

[Kim Holderness]

30.

[Penn Holderness]

30. Yeah, 30.

[Kim Holderness]

No, I. I love Disney. If you said Kim right now, we're gonna. If you woke me up and said Kim, we're going to Disney Disney World this morning. I would wake up and cry like an 8 year old. I love Disney and Disney doesn't really have upside downy rides. So I think that Disney World is really good for toddlers and people over 50.

[Penn Holderness]

So, Sam, at. At 30, your semicircular canals have not hardened and formed crystals that cause motion sickness. Like people who are older. I get that. But you're saying that no rides at all. You still think Disney is worth the. The cost of admission to walk around?

[Sam]

Oh, even if I didn't ride any rides, I would be happy. Spend a day in Disney.

[Kim Holderness]

And you just can't beat that.

[Sam]

Like, it's just a feeling.

[Kim Holderness]

I get it.

[Sam]

You walk and you see the castle and the kids dressed up.

[Penn Holderness]

I don't want to sound like a Disney hater here. I just. I think there is part. There's probably a group of people out there who are saying, okay, if I was not going to ride the rides, I don't know if it would be worth it to go to Disney. I will say that I will spend whatever the price is for a dole Whip.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, that's really good.

[Penn Holderness]

All right, so the answer. Are we too old for a theme park? Sounds like we're still at a no. Yeah, right? We're still gonna give it a go.

[Kim Holderness]

We're still gonna give it a go. Okay, so Disney Universal, give us a call.

[Penn Holderness]

Guys, that was one of our segments. Did you hear the music that we had for that? It was like. It was anti, like old music. So if we wanted to sound cranky, it would like here. I don't know about all these fandangled Mad Hatter teacup party rides. What about you, honey?

[Kim Holderness]

You sound like your dad.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, I'm getting there. Anyway, so that's our. That's our music.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, we have another segment.

[Penn Holderness]

Should we try another segment? Like, let's just. Let's just unload all of them.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. And you guys have to give us your opinion on these. They're not going to be every week. Not going to be every week. This is. What are we calling this?

[Penn Holderness]

What? Gen Z's. What the Gen Zers are saying. So this is for parents of our age. When your kids come home and they say something that sounds really foreign and you ask them what does that mean?

[Kim Holderness]

And they go, I'll say the first one. I'll explain. This came in a text message. Lola texted me and said, hey, Matt is throwing tonight. And I said, throwing what? Throwing is when you are hosting a party.

[Penn Holderness]

Throwing means hosting a party. So they took out a party and now they just say throwing.

[Kim Holderness]

So today's Gen Z word of the day is throwing. Try to use it in a sentence. Report back.

[Penn Holderness]

Make it a point to say it in front of your child. Because they love it when we try to use their language.

[Kim Holderness]

Love it.

[Penn Holderness]

Love it.

[Kim Holderness]

They love it so much.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes. I think we did we make it to the end of the show. I think we made it to the end of the show.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, thank you. If you're watching us on YouTube, thank you for joining us on our inaugural episode of Laugh Lines. If you're just listening, Emma, thank you for continuing to listen to our podcast.

[Penn Holderness]

Next week we're going to talk about bread back and what that all means and why it is now important to me. Laugh Lines is produced by Kim Holderness, Pen Holderness and Anne Marie Tapke with original music by Pen Holderness. It is is edited, shot and kind of co hosted. Today we learned by Sam. Adam. Adam, Sam Allen. Sorry.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, my God.

[Penn Holderness]

I was. I was moving on to the next page. Audio engineered by Max Trujillo and hosted by acast. As always, we love to hear from you. Please write to us@podcast theholdernessfamily.com or leave a voicemail at 843. God bless America. Where is it?

[Kim Holderness]

Keep all of this in, by the way, okay.

[Penn Holderness]

@Podcastheholdernessfamily.Com or. Or call us at a special number that only we have. And that number is 323364. The music ran out. 3, 9, 2, 9. Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

He just had to like the paper.

[Penn Holderness]

323-364-3, 9, 2, 9. That was a smooth ending.

[Kim Holderness]

Smooth ending. Okay, love you. Bye.

[Kristen Walters]

If group chats had a podcast, it would sound exactly like this. Unfiltered beauty secrets, wellness trends we actually try, and the kind of real talk you won't find on Instagram or anywhere else. From celeb confessions to life's messy moments, nothing's off limits. I'm Molly Sims, founder, actress, model, producer. And now your text or audio bff.

[Kim Holderness]

And I'm Emma Shaw Gormley. We're in this together, ladies.

[Kristen Walters]

Join us every week for Lipstick on the Rim.

[Penn Holderness]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Katie]

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[Kristen Walters]

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