Before You Get Botox with Dr. Sue Ellen Cox

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Before You Get Botox with Dr. Sue Ellen Cox"

Episode Overview In the July 15, 2025 episode of Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness, hosts Kim and Penn Holderness engage in an insightful conversation with Dr. Sue Ellen Cox, a renowned board-certified dermatologic surgeon and the founding medical director of Aesthetic Solutions in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. The episode delves into the intricacies of Botox and other non-surgical cosmetic procedures, exploring their benefits, ethical considerations, and the evolving landscape of cosmetic dermatology.

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1. Introduction to Dr. Sue Ellen Cox

The episode kicks off with an introduction to Dr. Sue Ellen Cox, highlighting her extensive background in dermatologic surgery and her leadership in facial rejuvenation. Dr. Cox's expertise is underscored by her involvement in clinical trials for prominent injectable fillers and neuromodulators, positioning her as a leading authority in the field.

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2. Addressing Women's Unique Needs in Aging Care

Dr. Cox opens the discussion by emphasizing the health industry's historical focus on men's biology, often overlooking women's unique needs as they age.

Dr. Cox [00:42]: "The health industry, especially when it comes to aging, it hasn't really focused on women's unique needs. It's often based around men's biology, leaving many women feeling overlooked or misunderstood."

Kim and Penn reflect on this point, agreeing on the importance of tailored healthcare for women, especially during significant life transitions like menopause.

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3. Understanding Botox and Facial Muscles

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Botox (Botulinum toxin) and its role in facial aesthetics. Kim Holderness provides a detailed explanation of how Botox works by targeting specific muscle groups to achieve facial harmony.

Kim Holderness [09:48]: "What we're treating is muscles. And muscles like to push and pull. So they're what we call agonist and antagonist muscles... facial shaping is individualized for the person in front of you."

Dr. Cox adds personal insights, sharing her experiences as both a dermatologist and a patient.

Dr. Cox [16:41]: "It's to prevent the jowls, prevents the pulling down of the lower face."

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4. The Evolution of Cosmetic Dermatology

Dr. Cox discusses the advancements in cosmetic dermatology since the 1990s, highlighting how treatments like Botox and fillers have become mainstream. She underscores the scientific rigor involved in developing these treatments, noting her participation in pivotal clinical trials.

Kim Holderness [17:02]: "I've done trials for Botox and we brought Jeuveau and Daxify and there's a new leady botulinum toxin that just got approved."

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5. Prejuvenation: Preventative Cosmetic Care

The concept of "prejuvenation"—using cosmetic treatments before significant signs of aging appear—is explored. Dr. Cox expresses concern over young individuals, even teenagers, seeking treatments like lip fillers to prevent wrinkles.

Kim Holderness [23:15]: "Prejuvenation... people are coming in before they have any signs of aging and getting small doses to prevent line formation."

Dr. Cox [24:15]: "I'm calling them kids. They're adults."

The discussion raises ethical questions about the motivations and pressures leading younger demographics to pursue cosmetic enhancements.

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6. Body Dysmorphia and Physician Responsibility

A critical segment addresses body dysmorphia among patients seeking cosmetic procedures. Dr. Cox shares strategies for identifying and managing patients who may have an unhealthy relationship with their appearance.

Kim Holderness [21:08]: "There's a physician... who writes about perception drift... it's a form of body dysmorphism."

Dr. Cox [22:44]: "It's problematic when doctors perform procedures on patients with body dysmorphia without addressing the underlying issues."

The hosts and Dr. Cox discuss the importance of ethical practices and the role of mental health support in cosmetic dermatology.

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7. Exploring Various Laser Treatments

The conversation shifts to different laser treatments available for skin rejuvenation. Kim Holderness explains the technical aspects and benefits of procedures like the CO₂ laser and Fraxel.

Kim Holderness [28:19]: "The carbon dioxide laser is the most rewarding in terms of before and after results, but it's also the most to go through in terms of downtime."

Dr. Cox shares her experiences with these treatments, emphasizing their effectiveness and the careful consideration required regarding downtime and patient suitability.

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8. Skin Care Routines and Preventative Measures

Dr. Cox provides insights into effective skin care routines, advocating for products rich in vitamin C, retinoids, peptides, and growth factors to maintain skin health and prevent aging.

Kim Holderness [32:48]: "I’m a firm believer in vitamin C which is an antioxidant... retinoids are really good at helping turn the skin over, helping fine line wrinkle reduction."

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9. Guidance for Prospective Patients

Concluding the expert discussion, Dr. Cox offers valuable advice for listeners considering cosmetic procedures. She emphasizes the importance of choosing board-certified physicians, understanding the qualifications of the provider, and ensuring the availability of treatments for potential complications.

Kim Holderness [34:23]: "It is important to see a physician board certified... If they don't have hyaluronidase, which can reverse a filler complication, don't go there."

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10. Gen Z Slang Segment: "Cooked"

In keeping with the show's lighthearted nature, the episode includes a segment where Kim and Penn decode Gen Z slang. The term "cooked" is discussed, differentiating between its meanings in different contexts.

Kim Holderness [45:24]: "When you say, 'let him cook,' it means to let somebody continue what they're doing, even if it seems unconventional."

The hosts humorously navigate the nuances of modern slang, reinforcing the show's theme of bridging generational gaps with laughter and understanding.

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Key Takeaways

• Personalized Care: Cosmetic treatments should be tailored to individual needs, balancing scientific precision with artistic nuance.
• Ethical Considerations: Physicians have a responsibility to identify and address potential body dysmorphia in patients seeking cosmetic enhancements.
• Advancements in Technology: The field of cosmetic dermatology is rapidly evolving, with new treatments and technologies continually enhancing patient outcomes.
• Preventative Approaches: Early interventions like prejuvenation can effectively delay visible signs of aging, though they raise ethical questions regarding their application in younger populations.
• Informed Decision-Making: Prospective patients should thoroughly research and consult with qualified professionals to ensure safe and effective treatment outcomes.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Sue Ellen Cox [00:42]: "The health industry, especially when it comes to aging, it hasn't really focused on women's unique needs."
• Kim Holderness [09:48]: "What we're treating is muscles... facial shaping is individualized for the person in front of you."
• Dr. Sue Ellen Cox [21:08]: "It's a form of body dysmorphism... nobody wants to hear that."
• Kim Holderness [28:19]: "The carbon dioxide laser is the most rewarding in terms of before and after results."
• Kim Holderness [34:23]: "It is important to see a physician board certified... don't go to that person."

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Conclusion This episode of Laugh Lines successfully marries humor with professional expertise, offering listeners both entertainment and valuable insights into the world of cosmetic dermatology. Dr. Sue Ellen Cox's expertise provides a comprehensive understanding of Botox and related treatments, while the hosts ensure the conversation remains accessible and engaging.

Transcript

[Kim Holderness]

We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes. Nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today.

[Penn Holderness]

This show is sponsored by Midi Health Penn.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Did you know that all the research on bird calls has been done on male birds?

[Penn Holderness]

You have told me that. And yes, you're very into birds right now.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay, but with the bird thing, okay, and the male, does that sound like anything else you might know? The health industry, especially when it comes to aging, it hasn't really focused on women's unique needs. It's often based around men's biology, leaving many women feeling overlooked or misunderstood.

[Penn Holderness]

You know what? That really stinks. Especially with little Miss Perry menopause around.

[Kim Holderness]

Some of the time.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Some of the time? Yes, Perry does make an appearance. Okay, seriously. Women are experiencing those shifts that come with aging, whether it's your energy or focus. But these aren't things to just deal with, you know.

[Penn Holderness]

No, these are signals that your body needs attention and you deserve a healthcare partner who truly gets it.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

That's where Midi Health's age well visit comes in. Longevity Care Designed by women for women.

[Penn Holderness]

Midi'S expert clinicians are deeply attuned to women's bodies, hormones and busy lives.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

They offer personalized evidence based care plans. Whether you're looking to prevent future health issues, stay mentally sharp, or just feel.

[Penn Holderness]

More like yourself, you know aging is inevitable. But how you age, that's completely in your hands. Your birding obsession, that's on the other hand. But we'll get back to that later.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

We'll get to that later. Okay? Your health is worth it. Book your virtual [e-mail] that's join M I D I.com School's out and spending's up. Grad parties, backyard barbecues, weekend getaways, you name it. But the summer of Dash Pass on DoorDash is back to keep more cash in your wallet.

[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I want to be clear. We are very pro aging.

[Penn Holderness]

I would still think that you are drop dead gorgeous.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I think my mom gonna learn that I get botox by watching this.

[Kim Holderness]

People who have history of skin cancers on their face come on in and do your fraxels.

[Penn Holderness]

This ended up being way more interesting than I thought it would be. Yeah, we get older every day. Got more wrinkles.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

That's okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, we're laughing.

[Penn Holderness]

When we age, life is like a comedy stage.

[Kim Holderness]

And that's why we got lands.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Hey everybody, I'm Kim Holderness.

[Penn Holderness]

And I'm Penn Holderness. And here we are in the Laughline studio for laugh lines. At least for now. We're in the Laughline studio. We're about to go on the road.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

You guys don't get it's not Paris. I know we've been teasing you with like a one day trip to Paris, but it's to Chapel Hill, which is down the road.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes, it is a commute that you could do in one day.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Anyway, welcome to Laugh Lines. If you have been excited about getting a colonoscopy because the nap, you are home. Yes, you are with your people.

[Penn Holderness]

Also, if you believe in the use of two spaces after a period, you're also home, which is the hill that I will, I will die on. I really don't understand why my daughter gets so upset with two spaces after a period as well as, I don't know, maybe Sam. She's got a little rye grin there. Are you a one space after the period person?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

She's nodding. She's given.

[Penn Holderness]

Are you serious?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Honey, we've had this conversation. So we recently did an episode called the Hill I will die on. And in that we talked about the Oxford comma Y got a call on the laugh line from Brian. Reference to the Oxford comma Bill, you die home segment. There was a main dairy company that.

[Kim Holderness]

Lost $5 million after a lawsuit in which the comma after the word shipment was dropped. So for the lack of an Oxford comma all those drivers earned additional overtime.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

This is a real thing, friends. The headline reads this think commas don't matter omitting one cost a main dairy company $5 million.

[Penn Holderness]

And so there was an overtime law that they were saying doesn't apply to the following things. And there was a long list of things like the canning, processing, preserving of, like, all of this produce. And it ends with storing, comma, packing for shipment or distribution of. They took out the Oxford comma in between shipment and.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Or.

[Penn Holderness]

Right. So what that means was when the list came out there, it was unclear whether or not that works for shipment or distribution or just shipment, comma, or distribution. Right. So huge lawsuit. And the people who did shipment or distribution, which is a whole new group, right? Distribution. Got like $5 million worth of overtime.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Get that bag, boys.

[Penn Holderness]

Because they didn't put the comma in.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Now, to the meat of the show, I want to be clear. We are very pro aging. We this whole podcast, laugh lines, double entendre. We have laugh lines. We have laugh lines, and we have a phone line that you can call and make us laugh. And we like to make. We like to write things that make you. There's a lot of. It's a triple entend.

[Penn Holderness]

Like a disclaimer, babe.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay?

[Penn Holderness]

Keep it going.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

We love aging, but also, I am very vain. And I thought it would just be interesting to talk with a really accomplished, like, leading dermatologist about the different options for non surgical sort of cosmetic uplift. Right.

[Penn Holderness]

We're not talking about creams or nighttime lotions. I mean, there's some of that. But you're talking about actual procedures that you have in your face that doesn't involve quote, unquote surgery.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Right. I have seen Dr. Sue Wallen Cox, by the way, this is not a paid segment. It seems like a huge contradiction. Get on here and talking about the joys of aging and then, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go get Botox. But I just feel the need to be really transparent.

[Penn Holderness]

Do you think people want to get surgery and not have people know about it, or do you think it's more acceptable, like, hey, guys, like, I'm getting older. This is what I want.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I just don't want my skin to feel like it's sliding off of my skull. Right.

[Penn Holderness]

I want to say, like, I think it is great that you're being upfront and honest about this. You made it a point that, like, you pay full price for this. We're not, like, getting a kickback for this, but this is something that is part of your values. Like, you. You want to, like, age appropriately, right? Not look like your skin sliding off your face. I mean, the conversations already had happened, and I thought it Was fascinating to me just to know like, and to like clarify all the different things, where you have to go for each of them and how many options there are. If you're watching this on YouTube, there's going to be a bit of an add on for the interview. Not that you can't listen on our, wherever you get podcasts, it's great as well. But on YouTube we're going to show a few of the before afters when she's describing these procedures so you can kind of tell what they are. And, and again, we're not getting a kickback for this. It's just in case you're curious.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah, yeah. Did we do enough disclaimers? We love a disclaimer. Okay, I'm going to read her bio. She's incredibly impressive. Dr. Sue Ellen Cox is a board certified dermatologic surgeon and the founding medical director of Aesthetic Solutions in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. A national leader in facial rejuvenation, she specializes in lasers, injectable fillers and neuromodulators. Dr. Cox has authored over 80 peer reviewed publications, serves as a feature editor for Dermatologic surgery and has delivered more than 125 lectures worldwide. Dr. Cox has contributed to the FDA approval of several widely used injectables and body contouring technologies. Seriously, most, if you go into a cosmetic dermatologist and you're talking about fillers and Botox and all that stuff, she is the person doing the clinical trials. So leader here.

[Penn Holderness]

And if you're watching on YouTube, we're about to magically transport from this studio to another location where Dr. Cox works. And she will be in my seat, which is a huge upgrade.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Welcome to the show, Dr. Cox. We're so excited to have you.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay, first, I will break all HIPAA rules and let everybody know that I'm a patient of Dr. Cox. Very proud patient. Okay, thank you. So I think by the time I came to see you, you didn't say it in this way, but you're like, okay, you have forehead wrinkles. Those are going to be there. So let's do some Botox. That kind of lifts it up a little bit. So talk. People of my age that have some laugh lines, what are some, what are some expectations they should have around Botox specifically?

[Kim Holderness]

I'd say the most important thing about Botox or Botulinum toxin because now there are six of them that are FDA approved and we have another four that we're working on clinical trials with. So pretty soon, you know, it's going to be very commoditized. But the most important understanding is that what we're treating is muscles. And muscles like to push and pull. So they're what we call agonist and antagonist muscles. So the number 11 lines are due to brow depressor muscles. That means muscles that are pulling in and down. So what these muscle relaxing products do is they will provide lift if you treat the appropriate muscle groups. The antagonistic muscle to that one is the forehead muscle, which is called the frontalis muscle. That's a brow elevator muscle. So if you relax something that's going to lift or elevate, it drops. So it's the understanding that those muscles are inter. They have, there's a lot of interplay between them and that you want to achieve balance, harmony, facial shaping. And it's individualized for the person in front of you. Because if I look at you, your right brow is coming up higher than your left brow. It does like since birth. So what I have to do is I have to trick the left side of your forehead into getting stronger and I do it all the time. For patients who have Bell's Palsy, if they have a muscle group that's weakened because they have an underlying pathology like Bell's palsy, I will treat their normal side, their active side, and I will make their weak side work harder so that it learns to lift. It's the whole idea of like kids, when you patch their eye for strabismus, you're patching the good eye to make the bad eye work harder. So we do. I do a lot of work with people who have underlying medical conditions like that. And it's amazing for those Bell's Palsy patients that after doing this for a few years, I can make somebody who had one side of their face that was almost completely paralyzed look almost completely normal.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Can you explain exactly what I get done more on this after these words.

[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Kim Holderness]

So what you get done is you get your brow depressor muscles. We talked about that. So the muscles that are pulling down, which then lifts your brows up and so you look more wide awake and approachable. And everybody thinks you're really interested in what they're saying to you.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Really? It's just my Botox. I really don't care what you're saying. Exactly.

[Kim Holderness]

And then like crow's feet opens up the eyes. That tends to make your eyes look a little bit more open. Anything on the lower face, I get it here. Yeah, that's the neck. That's the platysma muscles. That's what got the most recent FDA approval. We did the study here for, for that where it tends to stop the muscles from pulling your face down. And so then it lifts the neck up and you get a cinched jawline. So jawline is sharper.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I. So I told some friends that I got Botox. Like, I'm like, it's like in my neck and they thought I was doing it for neck wrinkles. It's not for that. It's to prevent.

[Kim Holderness]

Exactly.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

The jowl.

[Kim Holderness]

Exactly. Prevents the jowls, prevents the pulling down of the lower face.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

You are running a lot of clinical trials out here. Out of here. You have done a lot of the pivotal studies. How have you seen like cosmetic dermatology and research? Have you seen that grown, grow and change?

[Kim Holderness]

I mean, I graduated from my residency in 1993 and we didn't have Botox back then. There was no Botox at all. I mean, so it's a whole new field since the 90s and it's just changed tremendously. And I feel very fortunate because I was right in that, on the forefront, all of, of all of that and able to really get involved with clinical trials early. The CEO of, of Medicis, which had Dysport, actually asked me to do a clinical trial almost right out of my residency. And so I did the pivotal trial for Dysport, which is now what Everybody uses. I've done trials for, for Botox and we brought Jeuveau and Daxify and there's a new leady botulinum toxin that just got approved. So all of those trials were done here. So. And then a lot of the filler trials were also done here.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I think we've all seen the celebrities that show up to the red carpet and you're like, oh no, like they have all the money and why, how do they. They did them dirty. So what is happening to those faces?

[Kim Holderness]

Honestly, I think that a lot of that is body dysmorphism and unethical you physicians or providers who are injecting them. So, you know, again, if you put filler in the wrong plane, it's going to.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

What does that mean?

[Kim Holderness]

So the way that we achieve lift to the face is we take advantage of ligaments that live in the face and we make sure that our filler is put behind the line of ligaments and on the bone. And when you do that, you can achieve some anchoring of the tissue up and a little bit of lifting. Whereas if you put a lot of filler in the mobile fat pads, like, like the, the fat pads that are. So there's two sets of fat pads. There are deep fat pads that are attached to the bone and there are superficial fat pads that are right below the skin. And if somebody's putting a lot of filler more superficially in those superficial fat pads, though, that is where people start to look weird because when they smile, they have these huge ball like cheeks and it's just not done well. And I kind of do blame the companies a little bit because when we do clinical trials, we do them for a specific amount of time. Maybe, you know, you've got a product that's approved like Voluma, which has got a two year approval. The reason it's got a two year approval is because we continue to look at these patients for two years after we started their trial. So for the fda, they were able to say, yes, this product lasts two years. But what we don't do with any of these products is look at them 10 years later because some of them do last 10 years. When you're doing fillers under people's eyes, that product can last a long time. It's an area where you don't have a lot of metabolism. You know, there's a lot of, a lot of nuancing to, to filling under people's eyes. So I don't think there's any really good science behind how long fillers last in Any specific person. You know, some of it may be determined by if somebody's a marathon runner or they, you know, break down their tissue, their fat more easily, maybe they break down their fillers more easily. And again, depending on what plane the filler is placed, whether it's placed on the bone or it's placed, you know, you know, more in the superficial areas, that also will determine how long a product lasts. So it's very. It's very interesting, it's very scientific, but also artistic.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

You've mentioned body dysmorphia, which is very real. And you've acknowledged also that there are some doctors who are not really taking some responsibility when they see a patient with that. How much does a doctor at your level. How are you able to recognize that? How are you able to kind of push back on a patient that you think is suffering from that?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. Well, it is interesting. There's a physician in California, Sabrina Fabi, who writes about perception drift. Like, they start to get some filler, and they love it, and then they get a little bit more, and then they just start to. Their perception of themselves changes. And it's. And it is a form of body dysmorphism. Like, they're kind of addicted to getting whatever the treatment is. And it's tough because when I see these women who come in with really big lips or really big cheeks that I know I don't want my signature on their faces, I just have to say, it's not my esthetic. You know, this is not my esthetic, and I don't think you need more. And I try to explain to them that, you know, they'll always tell me, oh, but the filler, I haven't had it in 10 years. I'm like, yeah, but maybe you had it a bunch of times 10 years ago, and it's built up, and now it's not going away. Mm. And that's where I think the companies have some responsibility in that, you know, okay, my filler lasts a year. Well, no, it doesn't. It lasts for a lot longer than that. But there are. You know, there are telltale signs when patients come in with that, and it is hard to deal with them. And you. You know, nobody wants to hear that. You think they should see a psychiatrist, which often they should.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I mean, my. My grandmother, my mother, just beautiful, beautiful. They've. And they've never. I think my mom is going to learn that I get Botox by watch, but beautiful, gorgeous, perfect. And so I'm like, I'll never. I'll never get A facelift. Like, I don't want to do that, so I'm going to do this stuff instead. And then I saw Kris Jenner's facelift and I was like. But then I, then I thought that.

[Kim Holderness]

She doesn't look her age.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Isn't there something to kind of. I. I don't know, like, looking like you were aging, but looking the best for that possible age. Am I wrong?

[Kim Holderness]

No, I think you're. I think you're right. And I think it's always strange when somebody has this more very youthful face and then their neck is terr. Terrible or their hands are all spotted and.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Brown.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, brown. And they have. Their tendons are showing and their veins are showing. So I think everything in an age appropriate way is. Is what you want to achieve.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

How young are people coming in here? Because on the way out the door, my daughter's like, ooh, when can I get Botox? I'm like, she just turned 18.

[Kim Holderness]

I know.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

I had, I had a mom bring a 16 year old in a few weeks ago for lip filler. So, you know, it's, it's interesting. Right there is prejuvenation.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Prejuvenation. Tell me that.

[Kim Holderness]

Which basically is where people are coming in before they have any signs of aging. And they're getting, quote, unquote, baby Botox or small doses to prevent line formation. So we know that lines happen because of repetitive movement. It's like if you iron your pants, you're going to have a line form. So repetitive ironing of anything is going to create a crease. And so if you don't make a crease happen because you're relaxing the underlying muscle, it will never develop. And that's kind of prejuvenation.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

So that's happening. Kids are pretty young doing that. Yeah, I'm calling them kids. They're adults.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd say I have my. Definitely have my UNC students, Duke students, who come in and do it and they don't need it as much. I mean, they might come in once a year or maybe once every six months. Because you think about it, they don't have creases to start with, and they still have good collagen, so they're not going to be as likely to wrinkle. But if they can go for four months without, you know, ironing in any lines, then that additional four months, once it's worn off, it hasn't been increasing either. So they're not likely to form lines within a year.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Men. How many men are you seeing? In your practice?

[Kim Holderness]

My practice is I'd say 15, at most 20% males, but more of like 15, I would say. And men have completely different reasons for coming. I mean their reason is competition in the workforce. Their reason is I want to get ahead in my career and I don't want to be aged out. I don't want people to think I'm older than I am. They're not doing it for themselves. Women do it for themselves.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Totally.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, exactly. We do it because we want to look in the mirror and feel the best that we can about ourselves. Feel good, our self esteem is good. We feel, feel more confident. But men are literally doing it so that they can just perhaps improve in their careers a little bit more. They don't get left behind.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

We haven't talked about lasers. Okay. Lasers. It sounds like the stuff of science fiction, truly, but there are so many different. I went to your website to see the different laser treatments you offered and there are many. So can you give us like, what are, what are these different lasers doing?

[Kim Holderness]

So the way I like to think about laser is when like a patient comes in and, and wants to talk to me about laser, the first thing I say to them is, well, what are you trying to achieve? Like, what's your goal? Do you have red spots? Do you have brown spots? Do you have fine lines or wrinkles? Like so lasers have a wavelength of light that is specific to a target and the target may be red. So it's maybe blood vessels, it may be a birthmark, it may be a Venus. Like whatever it is, there's going to be the appropriate laser to treat that individual problem.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay. So I had like a blue vein. I had a blue vein here and it was making me look like it was making pen's like you did what? So I had a blue vein here that I would cover up with makeup. And when we were doing all of our stuff, it was making it look like everything was really dark. And then we went in and it.

[Kim Holderness]

Was like boop boop, boop and pulse yag. So we have a long pulse yag laser and that's a laser that's going to like a deeper bluer vessel to close it down. So it's a different laser than the pulsed eye laser. So you have to have a lot of different devices. You have to be a laser center if you're going to treat a lot of different problems.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

So I have done a laser and pen, I swear. You do know about this. So I did something for collagen.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, collagen stimulation. Like A halo or a fraxel.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I did it all the softwave. Softwave.

[Kim Holderness]

So softwave isn't a laser. It's an energy based device. So an energy based device is like an ultrasound or a radio frequency device. It's, you know, a ultrasound that is focusing below the surface of the skin to develop more collagen.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

And to develop tighter, better collagen.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay. So not even a laser. I don't even know what I have done to my face. I'm sorry.

[Kim Holderness]

So. So, you know, laser is a single wavelength of light typically.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Even if something like a BBL or an ipl, those are not really lasers because they have multiple wavelengths of light.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay, so what is the laser that you think, or are there a few. First of all, have you done laser stuff?

[Kim Holderness]

Lots of lasers.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Do you have a favorite?

[Kim Holderness]

Well, you know, the carbon dioxide laser, CO2 laser is the most rewarding in terms of before and after results, but it's also the most to go through in terms of downtime.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

So, you know, but if somebody has really deep wrinkles, particularly around the mouth or around the eyes, the carbon dioxide is going to be the gold standard.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

So tell me what that means.

[Kim Holderness]

It's a second degree burn.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Oh.

[Kim Holderness]

That you have to do wound care for. Ooh. And you have basically anywhere from 7 to 14 days of downtime with that.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Wow. Okay. You've done that.

[Kim Holderness]

I've done it only around my eyes. I haven't done my full face.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

And it works. It's great.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

And you don't have to do it a lot. I mean, maybe once every five years or once every 10 years. You know, just like a facelift lasts five to 10 years when you're doing CS.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Wait, a facelift only lasts five to 10 years?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, most facelifts are. That's basically why did I think it.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Was like one and done. But I guess you continue to age.

[Kim Holderness]

And you do continue aging. Yep. All that. All that.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay. Sorry. And then what is. I have a dear friend and she gets it. I feel like she gets it. Once a year she does this thing, and I feel like she goes into hiding for a week afterwards.

[Kim Holderness]

Fraxel or hair?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Fraxel. Okay. What is that?

[Kim Holderness]

So a fraxel is. There's. There's an erbium and a thuleum. They're different wavelengths on a fraxel. And a fraxel is going to basically help build your own collagen. And so you will get a little bit of tissue firming with it and thickening of the skin with it, which is good. I mean, you're building your collagen so you'll feel like your skin is doughier and firmer and more youthful. With the wavelength that we use for sun damage, you are 50% less likely to get a skin cancer than somebody who is. Has never had one. So people who have history of skin cancers on their face, come on in and do your fraxels, really, because that's important. It's get. It's really. And that was a, a study that was done about a year ago out of Matt Abram in Harvard showing that patients who do a fraxel are less likely to, to get skin cancers. So I, so, so if you, if you're, you know, you don't want to come in for cosmetic, then you can tell your family and friends you're doing it for therapeutic reasons. Right.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

See?

[Kim Holderness]

Don't be shy.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah. Okay. So. So for the wrinkles, it's the CO2.

[Kim Holderness]

Wrinkles are CO2 deep wrinkles.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Deep wrinkles are CO2 Fraxel.

[Kim Holderness]

Fraxel brown spots, sun damage, sallow discoloration of the skin halo, two wavelengths of light, good for again, collagen, getting pore size reduction, kind of a glow to the skin. So, yeah, those are our kind of resurfacing. And then we have lesser, like lighter resurfacing where you don't have the downtime, or we have things like microneedling, radio frequency microneedling. We have like a baby fraxel called clear and Brilliant. So we have a lot of different devices in this office depending on the age of the person, their expectations, what they need, whether they're doing something sort of once a year or they're doing it for maintenance. So there's lots of, lots of opportunity.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

What are the newer trends or what is. Is there any new technology we need.

[Kim Holderness]

To know about new trends? Well, our clinical studies, we are working with exosomes, which are basically like molecules that deliver signals. And we're doing a study right now placing topical exosomes on people's scalps, on their skin and on their eyebrows. On the scalp to keep the hair in the active growing phase and the eyebrows to help eyebrow growth and on the skin just for better skin quality. So exosomes, anything that's going to be regenerative is like the buzzword for the future. And even things like sculptor, which we mentioned briefly, and hyper dilute radies, which are bio stimulators, they're putting something underneath the surface of the skin to signal to your body, to wall off Whatever is being placed there, whether it's PLLA or whatever it is and build its own collagen naturally. So that's not a filler. So people who have filler fear come on in and do you know a bio stimulator?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Would you be willing to share the your skin care routine on the day to day? Like do you have products you love?

[Kim Holderness]

I do. I mean I, you know, firm believer in vitamin C which is an antioxidant so repairs free radicals that happen in the skin due to pollution, sun damage, all sorts, sorts of, you know, environmental assaults on our skin. So vitamin C has a long track record and the first person who kind of brought vitamin C into the marketplace in a more scientific way was Sheldon Pinnell at Duke and SkinCeutical. And it just shows that that was a product that was hard to actually penetrate through the skin. He was able to show that, you know that formulation that he came up with does so. So vitamin C's are I think an important preventative thing. I think retinoids, which have been out since the 70s or 80s, I mean long time tretinoin, which is the prescription, you know, strength retinoid is really good at helping turn the skin over, helping fine line wrinkle reduction, helping prevent pre cancers again. So we've got a long track record with retinoids. I think peptides are great, I think you know, growth factors. So there's like, there's just so many different aspects of skin care and my routine is always changing.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

People listening, they're like all of a sudden they're curious about maybe a laser treatment, a filler treatment, but they live very far away, they can't come see you. What are some things they should be asking a doctor before treatments?

[Kim Holderness]

So you know, it is important to see a physician board certified. There's a core group of physic that tend to do more of this and those would be dermatologists, plastic surgeons, facial plastic surgeons and oculoplastic surgeons. Sometimes I find the plastic surgeons will delegate more to their PAs and NPs. Not that that's a bad thing. There are some excellently trained NPs and PAs. But you want to go to somebody who does this all the time. Think of Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours. I mean if you're doing a lot of anything, you're going to be an expert at it, you're going to be able to treat complications from it. And I always tell my patients if you're looking for somebody to provide some of these services, you know, when when you're interviewing them, do they know how to deal with a complication? If they have one? If they don't, don't go to that person.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

If they're doing fillers and they don't have hyaluronidase, which can reverse a filler complication, don't go there. That would be a very bad thing to do. And then there are societies like you can go on the American Society for Dermalogic Surgery or we have members of our society that live throughout the US and you can find out who is a member of that society. I'm sure plastic surgeons have the same thing for the Plastic Surgery Society. Who are their members and what states are they in? Those are good places to start.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

If people are in the area. How can people find you Esthetic Solutions? Thank you so much.

[Kim Holderness]

You're welcome. It was a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

More on this after these words. School's out and spending's up. Grad parties, backyard barbecues, weekend getaways, you name it. But the summer of DashPass and DoorDash is back to keep more cash in your wallet.

[Penn Holderness]

You all know we have a kid headed to college in the fall, so any opportunity to save some cash is a win in my book.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Starting June 26, Summer of DashPass is your excuse to stock up on all things summer. Sunscreen, head headphones, watermelon, whatever is in your cart and get it with zero dollar delivery fees and reduced service fees on eligible orders.

[Penn Holderness]

Check daily for the massive summer savings on restaurants, groceries and brands from June 26 through July 30.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I know our graduate is going to want to have some of her favorite local eats before heading out of town for college.

[Penn Holderness]

So order on Door Dash and save Big during Summer of Dash Pass sign up today. Dash Pass benefits apply only to to eligible orders. Terms apply.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

From fitness routines to mental resilience, navigating personal goals to tackling burnout, we all need a little help being human.

[Penn Holderness]

That's what the Life Kit Podcast from NPR is here to do. If you're looking to move with more intention or just need thoughtful guidance on living better, Life Kit delivers strategies to help you make meaningful, sustainable change.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Life doesn't come with a manual, but every day you're making choices, some big, some small, that shape shape the direction of your life.

[Penn Holderness]

Life Kit offers real stories, relevant insights, and clear takeaways to help you meet those decision making moments with confidence and clarity.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I personally love the topics that run the gamut from budget friendly things to do this summer to tips for online privacy, there's always something to learn. With most episodes under 20 minutes.

[Penn Holderness]

I listen to Life Kit because I get to hear thoughtful conversations that unpack the emotional and practical side of personal, personal wellness. Actionable guidance I can actually use. No fluff, no judgment, just trusted voices and expert advice to help take me to the next step, however big or small that is.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Get help tackling common issues like relationships, finances, parenting, and your career. Then walk away with a game plan you can implement right away.

[Penn Holderness]

Life Kit isn't just another podcast about self improvement. It's about understanding how to live a little better. Starting now.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Listen now to the the Life Kit podcast from npr. And we're back to the studio. Okay, Pen, you were actually there for the interview. What did you think? What's your reaction?

[Penn Holderness]

So the menu, it was like a Cheesecake Factory menu of what they could do. Yes. Did you ever know, you know what, you sit down, you're like overwhelmed by 19 pages of things. I thought there were like three things you could do. Yeah, there was a long list of things. I don't even know if we showed all of them. We may. No, we may have cut some of them out, but it was a heck of a of a menu. I just like, listen. I find myself most of the time wondering if the people who were doing this needed as much as they think they need it. And she addressed that. Sometimes I was shocked by the concept of pre. Prejuvenation. Like, my daughter's older than some of the people who are going in to get lip fillers with this. With this doctor. Yeah.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I was when she said six, a 16 year old getting lip fillers. Here's. That was shocking to me. But as we talk about affirming care, which I think can be like a gender affirming care. Yeah. Which can be a very triggering statement. I don't know what that girl's like. Maybe she has, like, she's feeling so self conscious, she's. She's not wanting to show her if Maybe her lips are so, you know, small and like, maybe this very. Maybe she. If anybody's going to do a very subtle job, it's going to be Dr. Cox. And that changed everything with her presentation. So I try in my life about all things to take a step back and not get judgmental. But I heard that, and I heard that there are a lot of 18 year olds getting this pre, like, preventing the wrinkle stuff in. Made me a little sad. But I get it done too, so how can I judge?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. And I hear you. And So I, I bet if you had had zero, like, work ever done on you, I would still think that you were drop dead gorgeous.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

That's who you are.

[Penn Holderness]

But that's not really the point, right.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

For women. For me personally, I, I do feel like you and I are very secure and even if I did no work, you would be into it. It's for me. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's for me.

[Penn Holderness]

And you work hard and like, hey, do your thing. So here. So we were talking about the, the prejuvenation. I love hearing that. She says that, like, occasionally she'll say, no, that's not my aesthetic. That's not really what I'm feeling when I do this. But so do dermatologists and surgeons, do they have a responsibility or a requirement to report when they're, when they're seeing signs that someone might have an issue before they do a procedure on them?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Oh, I don't know anything about.

[Penn Holderness]

I don't know either. So to me, that's the part where like, someone comes to a doctor, they've, they've got, you know, they've got clearly got body dysmorphia. You're not trained to like, diagnose and say, here's what you need to do. Do you need some therapy for this? And as she said, it's like very difficult when you go to someone to try to get help and they say you need to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist. Like, should there be some integration of that before you can get a procedure?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I think that it puts a barrier and to mostly women who are of free will. I think it's, I think it's probably.

[Penn Holderness]

It could work for guys too.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

No, no, no. But I think there's probably, it's probably is more rare. But you do see it. To me, it is shocking that there are doctors that will, they'll just do it. They'll just do it. And I think that's problematic. But she is definitely not.

[Penn Holderness]

I'm not saying she is. I'm just, I'm thinking about the whole world here.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Oh, yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And, and just wondering, like, is. I mean, does that happen a lot? Do people just say, okay, well this is what you want, that's fine? Am I making any sense with this?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah, 100.

[Kim Holderness]

And I, I was just googling it because I was thinking like, like doctors.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Have a code of ethics, of course.

[Kim Holderness]

To not do harm. And plastic surgeons are doctors. So I think, I think it's just blurry what you consider what a doctor might consider harm. If someone's asking for this work to be done. I think you, like, an arm is broken.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay. I'm gonna fix this arm. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

But a patient is asking for this.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I know. It is very slippery, and it's very tricky, and I'm glad we.

[Penn Holderness]

I'm glad we talked about it.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And honestly, this ended up being way more interesting than I thought it would be.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Really?

[Penn Holderness]

Yes.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Okay.

[Penn Holderness]

I just. I didn't know. I thought maybe we were just going to talk about getting your cheeks filled up. Like, there's. There's so many issues and. And other things. Like, I want to pay attention to it now. Remember the part where Dr. Cox was saying that there's only about 15% of her clientele are men, and they are mostly there to say that they want to get ahead in the workplace? And my thought was, like, you guys, like, maybe that's what they're saying, but they're just. They're too. They're not, for the most part, not willing to get vulnerable enough to say, like, I think I'll look better. And I like the way that I look. And I know that because we had a podcast not too long ago where Kim finally got out of me that, oh, yeah, I like the way my eyes look after I had a blepharoplasty.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Like, the fact I told literally everybody that I got it because. And this is true.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

I got it because I had, like. I had occluded vision because I was, like, so droopy on the sides, especially at night. Like, I could not see. I wasn't getting enough light into my corneas. But also, like, I liked the way I looked for some reason, I'm a guy, so I didn't say, yeah, I wanted my eyes to look better, and now they look better. Women are way better at saying that.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah. And by the way, if we could have had an affiliate for that eye surgery for that eye doctor.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Because we ran into him and he's like, guys, I'm really busy now. I'm like, man. Affiliate link that I searched.

[Penn Holderness]

Thanks, doc.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Anyway, now back to the regularly programmed part of the show.

[Penn Holderness]

What the Gen Zers are saying. Today's word is cooked. Do you think that means went to the kitchen, had a meal, and cleaned up after yourself? Because that's what we'd like our kids to mean when they say cooked. But that's not what it means, everyone.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Kim, here's the thing. You can use this term very different ways.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, yeah, there's a lot of different.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

So when you say, let him cook, it Means to let somebody continue what they're doing, even if it seems unconventional, because it might lead to something good. In contrast, cooked implies that whatever was being cooked has failed and is beyond saving. So your teen takes a test and he says, I'm cooked. This is not to be confused with ate, which is praise, because normally if you said, hey, PC, how did you do in the test? You'd say, I ate. So that's suggesting the person not only did well, but left a lasting impression. Gen Z, why are you so hungry? Need Hot Pocket? Now that we have finally deciphered the difference between all these. Our kids, they. They hear us saying these things and they stop using them. Right.

[Penn Holderness]

Did we decipher it? Did we just confuse ourselves again with this?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I totally made sense. Making sure I made sense. Okay, let me cook. Right.

[Penn Holderness]

PC texted me and said, I cooked at practice today. Is he using it wrong?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

So should we get him up here?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. Today's word is cooked, right?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

All right, so let me cook means like, listen, I know you're not feeling this, but let me finish what I'm doing. I'm cooking.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Sure. You got you very close now.

[Penn Holderness]

If you say, like, I, I got cooked, that means I got ruled by somebody, right?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. If you say, I cooked, what does that mean?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

You're on the other side of what happened.

[Penn Holderness]

You did well.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

You dominated. Right. I hope that's those of you on YouTube are seeing my son's face right now. Because the whole process of someone's parent trying to understand the slang of their children generally leads to the extinction of that word.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

No longer using that word. So I remember saying it, I think, yesterday, and I now am not. It's done. It's over.

[Penn Holderness]

Because. Because if your parent says it, it is no longer cool.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

It wasn't ever cool. It was like it was just a part of a vocabulary. And now it's. Now it's not cool. It was neutral. Now it's negative.

[Penn Holderness]

Right.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

It's like subtraction, not really multiplication.

[Penn Holderness]

Fair enough to say that the word cook is cooked.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

It's cooked. Yeah. It's cooked. Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Guys, thanks so much for watching Laugh Lines Here to read the credits is PC. And by the way, it's easier to read credits if you read them like a game show host.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

I'm not gonna do that.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, Very good.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Laugh Lines is written and produced by Kim Holderness, Pen Holderness, and Ann Marie Tapke with original music by penholderness. It is filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by Acast as always, we love to hear from you. Please write us at podcastheholdernessfamily.com or leave a voicemail at 323-364-3929 and we will talk to you soon on the Laughline PC.

[Penn Holderness]

You cook those credits?

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

No.

[Penn Holderness]

Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

[Kim Holderness]

And I'm sure the reason you're listening.

[Penn Holderness]

To this podcast right now is because you chose it well. Choose Progressives Name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget so you can pick the.

[Kim Holderness]

Best one for your situation.

[Penn Holderness]

Who doesn't like choice? Try [e-mail] and now some legal info.

[Kim Holderness]

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Not available in all states.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

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[Kim Holderness]

From 100% European linen styles and 14 karat gold jewelry to gorgeous leather bags and elevated home finds, Quince has it all. And by partnering directly with top artisans and ethical factories, Quince delivers premium quality at half the cost of similar brands. Discover everyday luxury without the markup at quints. Go to quince.com styleupgrade for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com styleupgrade hey, I'm Trisha Hershberger, gamer.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Streamer and Amazon Live host.

[Kim Holderness]

I stream about tech, gaming and the.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Stuff I actually buy right here with my community. And Amazon Live makes it easy. Streaming, gameplay, scouting, new gear, chatting and shopping all at the same time. That's my kind of multitasking and it all happens on Amazon Live.

[Kim Holderness]

Shop on Amazon Live by searching Amazon.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Live in the Amazon Shopping app and.

[Kim Holderness]

Follow your favorite creators today.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

This is Paige, the co host of Giggly Squad. I use Uber Eats for everything and.

[Kim Holderness]

I feel like people forget that you can can truly order anything, especially living in New York City. It's why I love it.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

You can get Chinese food at any time of night, but it's not just for food. I order from CVS all the time. I'm always ordering from the grocery store. If a friend stops over I have to order champagne. I also have this thing that whenever I travel, if I'm ever in a hotel room, I never feel like I'm.

[Kim Holderness]

Missing something because I'll just Uber eats it.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

The amount of times I've had to Uber eats hair items like hairspray, deodorant.

[Kim Holderness]

You name it, I've ordered it on.

[Dr. Sue Ellen Cox]

Ubereats you can get grocery alcohol everyday essentials in addition to restaurants and food you love. So in other words, get almost anything with Uber Eats. Order now for alcohol you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.