Bridging the Political Divide with Roy Cooper

Summary

Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness

Episode: Bridging the Political Divide with Roy Cooper

Air Date: February 24, 2026

Guest: Governor Roy Cooper

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Laugh Lines, Kim and Penn Holderness dive into the challenge of bridging America’s political divide with longtime North Carolina public servant, Governor Roy Cooper. Known for their comedic approach to aging, family, and real life, Kim and Penn set out to find hope, healing, and even humor in politics, drawing on their personal ties to community leadership and faith. The episode is equal parts heartfelt, candid, and illuminating as the Holdenesses and Governor Cooper discuss faith in public service, practical bipartisanship, and how to find common ground—and laughter—amid today’s cultural and political tensions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Connections and Setting the Stage

• The hosts open with humorous anecdotes about aging injuries and competitive middle-aged dance, setting a lighthearted tone (03:32–04:24).
• Kim and Penn reflect on their father, Pastor Haywood Holderness, who was active in bipartisan community service (09:05–09:36).
• Governor Roy Cooper joins and highlights his personal connection: “Heywood was my interim pastor at White Memorial Presbyterian Church...He was a faith in action kind of guy...ministering to those in need was critical.” (12:40–13:49)

2. Faith and Public Service

• Governor Cooper discusses how his faith informed his choice to return to politics:

  "There’s a passage in the book of Luke...to whom much is given, much is required. ...I knew I still needed to give back and to step up and run for this U.S. Senate seat to help people who really have been left behind." (14:29–15:42)

• Cites his gratitude for his upbringing and the sense of duty to use his blessings for the good of others.

3. North Carolina Politics as a Bridge

• Kim outlines the unique political landscape: North Carolina often votes Republican at the federal level, yet Cooper, a Democrat, has never lost a statewide election (10:04–10:33).
• Cooper on how he won cross-partisan support:

  “It’s more of a we thing for one. ...Leaders ...told me you ought to try to stand in another person’s shoes...I don’t believe that we’re as divided ...as a lot of leaders want us to be.” (22:54–23:28)

4. Practical Bipartisanship in Action

• Cooper relates the story of expanding Medicaid in North Carolina:

  "We worked to form a coalition of Republicans who lobbied Republican legislators...It was very powerful when you have a tough-on-crime Republican sheriff coming...telling Republicans ...Medicaid expansion can do that. ...Now 700,000 more North Carolinians have health insurance.” (23:13–26:20)

• Tears shared as Cooper reflects on the personal impact of providing healthcare:

  “Handing Penny the first Medicaid expansion card—there were tears in her eyes, and admittedly tears in mine.” (26:04)

5. The Role of Social Media and the Illusion of Division

• Hosts and Cooper decry the way algorithms exacerbate polarization:

  “The problem with social media, it’s the worst place in the world to try to achieve consensus...The algorithms...control what you see.” (27:48–28:37) “...we’re not actually as divided as the internet tells you we are...there are a lot of bots...just there to foment.” (29:37–29:58)

• Cooper’s advice:

  “Try not to get sucked into it. ...Get people out of social media, meeting face to face...it’s not going to be easy.” (28:48)

6. National Priorities and the American Dream

• Cooper lists national priorities—healthcare, education, economic fairness (30:29–33:07):

  “We are the richest country in the world. We ought to find a way where everybody can have affordable, quality health care...You can gauge the morality of a society by how it treats its children and its older people."

• Also stresses restoring constitutional balance between Congress and the President.

7. Levity, Laughter & Human Moments

• Cooper shares what keeps him laughing:

  “I’m a good dad joke guy...I had [my kids] make for me a little thing that I carry around of them doing a Three Stooges ‘hello, hello, hello’...I like comedies like Seinfeld, I love Andy Griffith.” (34:21–35:18)

• Friendly ribbing about Penn’s song parodies—even Governor Cooper has seen Penn “doing Wicked...the green face at the end was pretty incredible and terrifying.” (35:12)

8. Advice for Content Creators in a Polarized Time

• Cooper encourages addressing real issues even without choosing sides:

  “I understand the hesitance not to talk politics, but...we’re in a perilous position right now...I think it’s okay to talk about some of these things...You don’t necessarily have to get all involved in the ‘R versus D’...but raising the level of consciousness of these issues...” (36:55–37:50)

• Stresses optimism:

  “When things are on the verge of destruction, a lot of times you have the opportunity to recreate them even better than they were before.” (38:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On leadership and empathy:
  "You ought to try to stand in another person’s shoes to figure out what they are experiencing." — Governor Cooper (23:04)
• On bipartisanship:
  "A lot of people are yearning for decency...when it comes time for policy, we all need to find a way toward consensus." — Governor Cooper (26:36)
• On social media’s impact:
  “Social media is the worst place in the world to try to achieve consensus." — Governor Cooper (27:48)
• On faith in action:
  “My faith has played a role because I think that we all have to step up in our own way...ministering to those people like your dad did, making sure they have opportunities to succeed.” — Governor Cooper (15:11)
• On the imperative to give back:
  "To whom much is given, much is required." — Governor Cooper (14:39, referencing Luke)
• On humility and humor:
  "I have many, many reasons to be humble, I assure you." — Governor Cooper (36:48)
• On optimism for the future:
  “When things are on the verge of destruction, a lot of times you have the opportunity to recreate them even better than they were before.” — Governor Cooper (38:45)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |--------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:02 | Trying to smile about politics | | 04:27 | Listener story about the Monk March for Peace | | 09:24 | Remembering Penn's dad's approach to political divides | | 11:40 | Governor Cooper's introduction & legacy | | 12:40 | Governor Cooper reflects on Haywood Holderness | | 14:29–15:42 | Cooper’s faith and decision to run for Senate | | 22:54 | How Cooper won in a red-leaning state | | 23:13–26:20 | Medicaid expansion story: bipartisan coalition-building | | 27:48–28:48 | Why social media worsens division | | 30:29–33:07 | Cooper’s national priorities if elected to the Senate | | 34:21 | What makes Cooper laugh—dad jokes, family, classic comedies | | 36:55 | Advice to content creators about addressing vital issues | | 50:10 | Show hosts' reflection on volunteering & personal action |

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Episode Highlights & Closing Thoughts

• The episode excels in humanizing politics and offers hope for healing divides through empathy, listening, and shared goals.
• Laughter breaks the tension throughout, whether via dad jokes, self-deprecating humor, or nostalgia for classic sitcoms.
• The conversation balances local anecdotes with universal themes of justice, community, and dignity.
• Both the hosts and Cooper stress taking real-world action—volunteering, engaging face-to-face, and supporting your community beyond digital echo chambers.

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Actionable Takeaways

• Step Outside the Algorithm: Seek perspectives beyond your digital comfort zone.
• Volunteer & Serve: As the hosts note, getting involved in local service eases anxiety and builds connections.
• Dialogue with Empathy: Stand in others’ shoes, even when it is challenging.
• Keep Laughing: Humor is a vital tool in withstanding divisive times.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a masterclass in mixing candor, humor, and hope as Kim, Penn, and Governor Roy Cooper model tough conversations with grace. You'll leave with restored faith in the power of community and bipartisan progress—plus a few good dad jokes up your sleeve.

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Episode recorded and produced by the Laugh Lines team. Listener feedback is welcomed at [e-mail] or via voicemail at 323-364-3929.

Transcript

[Kim Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

Okay, so Bare Face sells one of those things Kim was talking about every three minutes. So you know they are that good.

[Kim Holderness]

I love the way they make my skin look. Fewer clogged pores, my skin smoother, clearer, and I just have this healthy glow.

[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

And we're big on sleep over here. I mean, I don't really function without my Z's.

[Pen Holderness]

I can attest to that. Love you, babe.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

When it comes to what you sleep on, real wins. Real is better. So go to avocadogreenmattress.com Holderness to check out their mattress and bedding sale.

[Kim Holderness]

That's avocadogreenmattpress.com Holderness avocadogreenmattrush.com/holderness.

[Pen Holderness]

Today. See how this goes. We're gonna try to smile about politics.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

I did look up at that senate, and I thought I might be a little young for this.

[Kim Holderness]

I don't believe we're as divided as the Internet makes us think.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, we get older every day. Got more wrinkles.

[Kim Holderness]

That's okay.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, we're laughing. When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we got Laugh Line.

[Kim Holderness]

Hi, everybody. I'm Kim Holderness.

[Pen Holderness]

And I'm Pen Holderness. And thanks for joining us on Laugh Lines.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes, if you have a stack of heating pads in your house, but you have a favorite one, you're welcome here.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, this are your people. This hits close to home.

[Kim Holderness]

This is close to home because I injured myself very badly Doing sleeping. Yeah, doing sleep. I woke up yesterday and it hurt so bad to turn for my head to turn left. I was. It was making me nauseous.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, you were not doing good sleep.

[Kim Holderness]

I was not doing good sleep. So, like, halfway through the workday, I said, I need to go upstairs and just lie on the floor with my head turned this way. And it helped.

[Pen Holderness]

I mean, you guys, I was concerned. Like, I'm like, what hap. Like, were you. Did you do dance yesterday? Cause she does, like, actual, like, I almost want to call it competitive dance

[Kim Holderness]

at this point because they're all middle aged, competitive dancers.

[Pen Holderness]

You guys are competing about who ends up in the front row. So it's technically.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, you're not wrong.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Anyway, we have an important announcement. We have an incredible show today.

[Pen Holderness]

But first, thank you so much, those of you who have pre ordered for your support of our awesome new ADHD children's book. It's called get it done and have Fun ADHD hacks for awesome kids anytime. I hear the little ding that someone has ordered one of our books. Like, my heart, it jumps. I know. Most of our stuff is just kind of free out there with ads on the Internet. And this is an actual thing that we make. And so for that reason, it means a lot to us. We can touch it right and we don't get to do that with many things. We think it's a really important message for kids who, like me, when they were kids, had a tough time, like doing the mundane.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Things that are chores. But also like knowing that that's a way to show respect and loyalty to your family. And so we're trying to find a fun way for kids to understand that and to help out the family.

[Kim Holderness]

So go to get it done and have fun.com to get your copy.

[Pen Holderness]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm very excited for it to go on the world. Okay. Previously on this podcast and on our social media feed, I posted about experiencing the monks on their walk for peace From Texas to D.C. they walked in the winter and I was so worried about them in the snowstorm. So we talked about this experience. One of you, one of our loyal listeners, and Gerald, you've heard of Gerald before. If you've listened to this podcast, you know Gerald, he got on a plane and went to go see them. And here's his email.

[Pen Holderness]

And by the way, Gerald also got on a plane and came to meet us in Minneapolis. He's incredible. So we've met him. So Gerald wrote, Dear Kim, I wanted to let you know that you continue to inspire me. I did not know of the Monk March until you attended it in Raleigh. I knew that I had to see it and be part of the movement. So I flew to Richmond, Virginia and saw the march live. Got there 20 minutes early. That's cutting it close. Gerald. Gerald, you flew out. I mean, this is not a Kim type journey.

[Kim Holderness]

No, I would have been there hours before.

[Pen Holderness]

Anyway, he started talking to a person about the march. We were one of the few that were there at the time and were afraid that there would not be much participation. But as it got closer to 1pm, it was like a sea of humanity that lined the route. Thousands of people of all races, creeds, sexes, nationalities, ages, et cetera, joined the march to the state capitol. It was one of the best experiences of my life. Here is a picture for those of you on YouTube. This is a personal message of thanks and hopefully this will bring you a smile and. And hope. Sincerely, Gerald.

[Kim Holderness]

That made me cry. Yeah, that like just talking about peace and hope inspired somebody else to find it. And hopefully in his sharing his message that we can all. Okay, the monks have finished their march.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

But we can all yearn for that. Thank you, Gerald. You continue to be my number one.

[Pen Holderness]

You made her smile. That's our, that's our goal here on Laugh Lines is to smile. And sometimes we try to smile through difficult times. Right.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

And so today, see how this goes. We're going to try to smile about politics. You guys, we've, we've discussed this before. We had a great friend, she also can swallow swords, named Andrea Jones. Roy just happens to be someone who swallows swords.

[Kim Holderness]

And she does stand up comedy. And she's a data science.

[Pen Holderness]

Yes. And her data has shown over the last three decades, and this shouldn't surprise anyone, but using data, that our nation has been divided into two and that divide has grown.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Pen Holderness]

Every single year for decades. Right. That's just where we are right now, I think, obviously. And Andrea told us this too. A big reason for the divide is the way that social media and algorithms are set up. Right. If, if someone. It's not like it used to be when you, when you would watch, like, you know, a, a channel and you'd get opinions on stuff, but, you know, someone would say something on your TikTok or Instagram, you would like it. The AI, the overlords. I can't believe I sound like my dad while I'm talking about this, but I'm trying to explain it so everyone understands it. The algorithm says, oh, you like this. I bet you'll like this. Boom, boom, boom, boom. All of a sudden, your feed becomes an echo chamber of things that you believe in. That can't help.

[Kim Holderness]

It can't help. Which is why you and I, if there's a big news event we go to, we go to different. Like, like, what is the quote, other side sharing.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, right. No, I watch. But there's. Look, CNN and Fox News could not be more opposite. So when something happens, I watch both.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

And it, like, honestly, both sides sometimes make me cringe because they appear to just mostly be attacking the other channel instead of talking about the issue.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, so you mentioned your dad. How many times have I asked you, God, what would your dad say right now? Like, I miss Penn's dad was a pastor, local community leader. So well respected by every political side he could. Because he, he got involved in politics.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Because you lead people and people are politics. So I have, like, been near tears going like, oh, God, I just wish I could hear his voice, like, reassure me that everything's gonna be okay.

[Pen Holderness]

Well, he was the pastor for a purple church for a long time, and, and he, he found ways to, to like, bridge gaps between people. And that was kind of beautiful. And I think we could use that right now. And so we actually have a guest who is an old friend of my dad's. He does also happen to be running for Senate in the state of North Carolina, but I've known him for a long time and he reminds me of my dad. And so I think he's going to make me feel better today.

[Kim Holderness]

I think what's important to mention is that historically North Carolina, which is the state we live in, for presidential elections, we'll go to the Republican candidate with two exceptions.

[Pen Holderness]

Since I've been able to vote, I think it was Clinton and Obama the first time. And everyone else.

[Kim Holderness]

Everyone else. So, yeah, but Governor Roy Cooper is a Democrat and he's never lost an election. And he was the Attorney General. He was our governor. I think that is fascinating.

[Pen Holderness]

That is interesting because whatever color your state turns right, you would think that'd be the same as governor because it's same group of people voting and they usually do the same thing. So, yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, we should officially introduce him. Roy Cooper has given his life to public service with over three decades of experience in state government. Most recently, he served two terms as the 75th governor of North Carolina until 2025. As governor, Roy prioritized expanding access to health care, strengthening public education, and growing North Carolina's economy.

[Pen Holderness]

He served four terms as Attorney General for North Carolina. He's been a member of the North Carolina House of Representatives and a member of the North Carolina Senate, where he was also Majority Leader. Roy and his wife, Kristen, have three daughters. When he's not working, you'll likely find him spending time with family or cheering on North Carolina teams. We've seen him at Kane's playoffs.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, but a pen. We only have a short time with him, so you are not allowed to ask him about the most recent UNC Duke game because that would take up our entire time with him if.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Why?

[Pen Holderness]

That was such a great game. Okay. I have never seen more gray headed people in quarter zips tackling each other.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, see, this is a different podcast

[Pen Holderness]

in a good way.

[Kim Holderness]

Welcome to the show, Governor Roy Cooper.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

You guys are hometown heroes. Hometown heroes. We watch your stuff a lot. So you're being spied upon. You know, your Weird Al stuff, Ken, is just really amazing.

[Pen Holderness]

Did your.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Did your dad, you know you're a pk?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Did your dad make you sing in the choir?

[Pen Holderness]

My mom did.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

I'll bet you're pretty good. Are you a tenor or are you sort of in between?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, I was. I was a soprano for a long time. I was a late bloomer, and then when nature took its course, I was a tenor.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Yeah, I love it.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. Well, thank you so Much for taking time to talk to us today. We've been really looking forward to this.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Me, too.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. Mostly because. Yeah, you guys are old family friends. You know, you knew Haywood really well, and there are so many times over the last couple years, I'm like, gosh, what would Haywood say? What would Haywood say? How do you. What do you remember about Penn's dad?

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Well, you know, Heywood was my interim pastor at White Memorial Presbyterian Church. You know, I know he was at Westminster Presbyterian in Durham for years and years, but I so enjoyed the time when he came. I think it was a couple of years during that period of time that he preached and served in our church. And the thing about your dad, Penn, is that he was a faith in action kind of guy. I mean, he had his strong beliefs. He. He understood how to talk with people and listen to them, which is a real skill. But he also knew what the teachings of the Bible were, and ministering to those in need were critical. And what he did, helping to start Urban Ministries and the work he did with basic needs in life of making sure people got enough food, and the work that he did to help spread food banks across North Carolina, just truly amazing and inspiring work. And I liked him, too, because he's a Tar Heel fan, man. He's a basketball fan. So we would talk basketball.

[Kim Holderness]

Love it. Love it.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Okay, Governor Cooper, you got the Alex Julian. You've got the Alex Julian Argyle there. That's fantastic.

[Kim Holderness]

And, Governor Cooper, you have. You don't have a lot of time. So I told Penn, I made him promise that we can't talk about the UNC Duke game because that would take. That would take an extra 20 minutes and that we have important things to talk about.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Well, all you have to do is just feel that. That's right.

[Pen Holderness]

That's right.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Take a moment and. And experience. That's all you have to do.

[Pen Holderness]

Thank you for what you said about my dad. I'm trying to fight back some tears right now. Can you tell me how faith has played part in your politics?

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Well, first, let's just talk about my decision to run for the United States Senate. I had finished governor's office. I served as governor of North Carolina for eight years and had left the governor's office and was trying to think, hey, what am I going to do now when I grow up? And I. I thought about teaching. I got solicited to go and teach. And I said, my only experience teaching is two and a half decades of Sunday school.

[Pen Holderness]

And.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

And I knew at the end. End of that hour, I was exhausted. So I don't know if I'm your man, but I did. I did end up going and. And teach some, but I kept being pulled to this US Senate seat because I really thought I was going to leave elected politics. But because I think we're at a perilous time in our country. A lot of people are suffering right now, and I think all of us need to think about what we can do in our own way to make a bit a difference. And there's a passage in the book of Luke that kept coming through my mind as I would sit in church is to whom much is given, much is required. I kept thinking about my life growing up in eastern North Carolina. My mom and dad were absolutely amazing. I always told them if I could be half the parents that they were to me, to my children, that I'd be successful. My mom's a schoolteacher. I was grateful to get a good education. I was grateful to have an amazing wife and three beautiful daughters. I've had great physical health, financial security, emotional support. I had a job that I love doing every single day. Those are so many blessings. And I knew I still needed to give back and to step up and run for this U.S. senate seat to help people who really have been left behind. When you think about almost half the people in this country couldn't get $500 in an emergency if they needed it. That's a wealth divide that, that we have to address. And ministering to those people like your dad did, making sure they have opportunities to succeed. I'm not talking giveaways. I'm talking about good education, good health care, mental health. You guys have been amazing in what you have done in the mental health arena. My faith has played a role because I think that we all have to step up in our own way. And this is something that I know how to do. I did look up at that Senate and I thought I might be a little young for this, but. But I thought, you know, it was. It was time. It was time to be for me to step up. And I'm really enjoying being out there on the trail. I know your dad loved the beach. And what was Casablanca? You had the cap and Carteret County.

[Pen Holderness]

Yep. Out of Cape Lookout. Yeah.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Yep. I love it.

[Kim Holderness]

So we have a very national, international audience and we are talking about North Carolina right now. But I think what would fascinate our international audience is that you're a Democrat that runs in a state that typically goes historically more red goes red in presidential elections. So when There were presidential elections that went to the Republican candidate. You would win by many points. How did you do that? More on this after these words. This show is sponsored by MIDI Health. Okay, quick question. Are you in midlife and feeling dismissed, unheard, or just tired? Like, is this how it's just going to be now? Forever Tired?

[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

Which feels less like health care and more like a shrug with a copay.

[Kim Holderness]

And here's a wild stat. 75% of women who seek care for menopause or perimenopause are left completely untreated.

[Pen Holderness]

75%. That's not a you problem. That is a system problem.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, it doesn't matter how the workout is. It's really all about how I look. Yeah. Unfortunately though, buying new workout clothes all the time isn't realistic.

[Kim Holderness]

That's why we signed up as new VIPs with Fabletics, you get 80% off everything. I thought it was going to be one of those too good to be true things, but no, it is real.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, the quality, Kim, honestly surprised me. Fabletics pieces feel like the kind of high end activewear you'd easily pay a couple hundred dollars for. But you get that same premium fit and durability for a fraction of the price at that point, the VIP membership basically pays for itself, and the fit

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

Plus, there's something reassuring about knowing that Fabletics isn't just an online brand floating in the void. They've got over 2 million VIP members and more than 100 retail stores. It feels like joining a community people genuinely count on.

[Kim Holderness]

I ordered the Pure Luxe set with no seam leggings, and it's perfect for those chilly morning workouts. I'm staying warm, but I'm not overheated.

[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

That's Fabletics.com Holderness

[Governor Roy Cooper]

well, it's more of a we thing for one. I want to give credit to people who have worked with me four years, who we tried to put people first. I think going back to preachers that I've had, including your dad, Penn and my dad, they always told me that you ought to try to stand in another person's shoes to try to figure out what they are experiencing. And I've always tried to do that and I've always worked to try to do what I think is right. And I don't believe that we are are as divided in the country and in the world for that matter, as a lot of leaders want us to be. Leaders who succeed because they're able to divide us. And I think concentrating on those issues that bring us together has allowed me to be elected and earn the trust of the people. Like health care, for example. This is something most everybody struggles with. And I've spent a lot of time working to try to improve the quality, reduce the costs, and spread the access of healthcare to people. And really the true answers of this are going to be at the federal level, unfortunately. And it's another reason why I'm running. But I've been grateful to work across party lines and to work in a bipartisan way as much as I can.

[Pen Holderness]

Can you, can you make my soul feel better and just give me an example of like someone who you've worked with on the other side of the aisle to, to enact change? I just don't see much of it these days.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

All Right. We had an opportunity to expand Medicaid in North Carolina and that was filling the gap between people who made too much money to qualify for regular Medicaid, but not enough money to qualify for subsidies under the afford Affordable Care Act. So there was a gap and there was a lot of uninsured people. And the way the Affordable Care act worked, or otherwise called Obamacare, was that states had the option to get into Medicaid expansion. A lot of southern states just refused to do it, and North Carolina refused to do it for a long time because it was labeled as Obamacare and they were just going to be against it. When I was was attorney general, I had an opportunity to work with sheriffs and law enforcement. And when Medicaid expansion opportunity came up, I went to them. And many sheriffs talked about the fact that a lot of people in their jail had mental illness issues and there weren't places for them to be treated. Many people in their jail had addiction issues and they just couldn't find them treatment and they didn't need to be there. To a lot of Republican county commissioners who knew that their rural hospitals, that their doors were going to close if they didn't get compensated more for the people that they were actually treating, they were treating so many uninsured people. And we worked to form a coalition of Republicans who lobbied Republican legislators. And it's very powerful when you have a tough on crime Republican sheriff coming to the legislature and telling Republicans that a lot of people in my jail need health care and not handcuffs and we need more mental health for them. And Medicaid expansion can do that. And at the end of the day, getting people who were their constituents that disagreed on a lot of issues, we all agreed that there needed to be more mental health. We all agreed that we needed rural hospital doors to stay open. So the Republican legislature ended up passing and I signed Medicaid expansion and now 700,000 more North Carolinians have health insurance. I'll never forget handing Penny the very first Medicaid expansion health insurance card. There were tears in her eyes and admittedly tears in mine because she was finally getting health insurance. And I went around that room and talked to so many workers working North Carolinians who liked having two or three jobs. A lot of small businesses can't afford health insurance for their employees. They were getting a chance to do that. And we did that in a bipartisan way. It was hard to get there. It took years to get there because a lot of partisan politics was standing in the way. But when you Try to navigate through all of that. We all want good health care. We all want good education for our children. We expect clean air and water. We want to be able to look after our parents and grandparents when they get old. And I know you've been doing a lot of work in Alzheimer's, Ben. You know, it's important for us to be able. We all want those things regardless of what party we're in. And we've got to find a way to navigate through all of the partisan vitriol. And I just think a lot of people are yearning for decency as much as possible. I mean, when you're in the middle of these races, you have to fight to get elected. It's really tough and it gets ugly. But at the end of the day, when it comes time for policy, we all need to try to find a way toward consensus. And I've tried to do that through my entire career and hope to do that in Washington. Never thought I wanted to go to Washington, but I'm, I'm, I'm ready, ready to go now, taking the things that I've. I've learned.

[Kim Holderness]

So right now, if you opened up your social media feed or my social media feed, it's a lot of yelling, it's a. It's a lot of screaming. Right. And it, it is a political divide that I honestly don't know if I want to cross that bridge and meet people halfway someday. Right.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Yeah. No, I get it.

[Kim Holderness]

Right. So how do we. How do you do that? How do we. How do we heal? Not just in the Senate, but as ideologically like. Ideologically, because there are times like you just did some. Your party that you represent just did something really terrible, and they're sticking up for it. So I don't want to go halfway on that.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Well, the problem with social media, it's the worst place in the world to try to achieve consensus because people have, you know, you can control who you talk with. The algorithms essentially controlled by billionaires, when you get right down to it, control what you see. So often people are not exposed to any other side, and the other. The only times they are exposed to it is someone who is coming at them personally and denigrating them personally because they don't agree with it. And if we're going to leave it to social media to pull us together and try to solve things, I don't think we can. There are a lot of people who are able to pull away from it and who are working outside of that. And I think I tell people, let's Try not to get sucked into it. And we could talk a long time about young people. I mean, you guys have kids and the influence of social media on kids and what ought to be expected of people who are doing these things. We need a lot of protection for our children right now that, that we don't have. But I think you have to move out of social media and get people out of social media. Meeting face to face in other ways in order to try to find consensus. It's not going to be easy, that's for sure. It's some of the worst things you will ever see on the Internet. And you know, a lot of it are bots. A lot of it are just people that really aren't even real people and they're, they're there to foment.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, we know.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, yeah, we're, we're familiar with. Governor, I know you are. I don't. And you just said the same thing. I don't believe we're actually as divided as the Internet tells you we are. Because the bots, there are people that are paid to do it. There are people that are inspired to do it and do 100 accounts are like loud and meat and awful and they're anonymous. But there aren't as many as them of them.

[Pen Holderness]

I think, I think it's going to be interesting because like, I think we found a good sound bite of, of Governor Cooper saying you need to get off social media. Really.

[Kim Holderness]

We're going to put on social.

[Pen Holderness]

We're going to post it on social media and I don't know for the

[Governor Roy Cooper]

holder and his family. Except for the Holder.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, just.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, right.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Yeah. Because it's very wholesome, very wholesome.

[Kim Holderness]

Mostly. Mostly.

[Pen Holderness]

Give me, give me some priorities. I know you've got priorities for North Carolina, but I just want to speak to a broader audience. Give us some of your priorities for our country over the next like six years. Let's say you get elected.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Well, I know you have a lot of national and international fans and let me brag on you guys just a minute. Being governor of North Carolina, we are so proud of Kim and Penn and all that they've done. It's just been special. And, and we're grateful for the work they're doing in the community and we're grateful for the entertainment that they provide us. So thank you for that. But we are the richest country in the world. We ought to find a way where everybody can have affordable, quality health care. I mean, that is a basic moral obligation, in my opinion. And I think that you can gauge the morality of a society by how it treats its children and its older people. And I do believe that we need to work on bolstering early childhood education in our public schools. And we need to work on care for those who are reaching the end of their lives and investing in these caregivers. And we have to find a way to do that right now. The tax breaks continue to go to the very wealthiest among us and the corporations. And there is a better way to do this. And I believe that we need to make those investments, investments in health care. I also want to. Stepping back a minute, the framers of our Constitution envision checks and balances. A legislative body, an executive body, a judicial body. And what's happening right now, there's a lot of ceding of constitutional authority to the executive branch by the legislative branch. And I would like to go to Washington to work, work with Republicans to try to take back that constitutional authority. For example, on trade and tariffs, on declaration of war, on spending money in the budget that hadn't been appropriated by Congress. I think all of that is going to be really important. And I have a lot of Republicans who agree with me on that, that the checks and balances that we have in our democracy and this, the greatest country in the world, is critical to the survival of our democracy. So I want to go and work on that as well. And I think, finally, stuff just costs too much for people right now.

[Pen Holderness]

I see that behind you. I like that.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

It just costs too much. And with rent and utilities and childcare and health care for so many families, there's just too much month left at the end of the money. And there are a lot of people looking up the middle class now and thinking they'll never get there. There are people in the middle class who are barely hanging on. Young people. I got a lot of young people working in this campaign. They don't think they can buy a house anytime in the future. And that's not right. We've got to get back to making sure that the American dream is available for everybody. And I think that that's something. Another thing that all of us want, wants. So let's elect leaders who are working to give people those. Those opportunities. And I look forward to this.

[Kim Holderness]

So we, we do call this podcast the Laugh Lines. We do talk about a lot of, you know, issues that come up as we age. But at the foundation, we do like to laugh. Governor Cooper, what makes you laugh? What, like, when you need to, like, just. Just get away from just the vitriol. What makes you laugh.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

So I'm a good dad joke guy.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh good.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

So you know, I'm, I'm a good dad joke guy. My kids make a lot of fun of me, but I had them make for me a little thing that I carry around of them doing a Three Stooges hello. The hello, hello, hello, hello. That's, that's the kind of dumb thing that I like. So. And I, and I like comedies like Seinfeld. I love Andy Griffith. I've always loved that. And, and you know, just, just being with my family and all of us making fun of each other and you know you can get a good laugh from, from you guys pen with your Weird Al Yankovic. It's pretty, pretty special with what you can do. I saw Wicked the other day, Kim, you were so funny. He's doing Wicked.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh no.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

He's doing Wicked. He's doing Wicked.

[Kim Holderness]

It's going to do it.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

And it, the green face at the end was pretty incredible and terrifying.

[Kim Holderness]

It's so funny. Governor Cooper, because his parents never really understood what it was that we were doing here. Like Heywood was always like, do you need money?

[Pen Holderness]

Until the day he died. And he had dementia. By the time he died, he was.

[Kim Holderness]

I love.

[Pen Holderness]

I'm gonna write you a check. I'm like, you're not on the program anymore. He like, he would always call like if local news. He thought, he thought local news was like being in private equity.

[Kim Holderness]

It is not.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Well, you, you both did that and you did it well. But then, but it was not to do really great, really great things. And I, I think your dad knows now that you, you have really, really made it. That's for sure. There's just so many things that you guys have done that everyday families can identify with. And you do it in such a humorous way. And you know, if you're not afraid to make fun of each other, then you can get a lot of laughs from that. Because my kids excoriate me in so many ways. They make fun of my southern accent, the way I talk and it's, it did pretty funny.

[Pen Holderness]

So I have a challenge for you. I have a challenge for you. I want you to take what you just complimented us on, which is like some self deprecation and some self awareness and I wanted you to take that up to Capitol Hill. Not be afraid to be flawed and to be human. I think that'll help bring people together

[Governor Roy Cooper]

and I have many, many reasons to be humble. I assure you. I assure you that that is for sure.

[Kim Holderness]

And you know what? We do is a little different. Right. We have a podcast where content creators social. We exist in the social media space. What advice do you have for us? Other content creators, other people who are, who are existing in an unprecedented time? Because normally we wouldn't talk politics. What kind of advice? How do you think we should move forward?

[Governor Roy Cooper]

I understand the hesitance not to talk politics, but we're in a perilous position right now in our country. The divisiveness, the vitriol. I'm deeply concerned about where we are as a country. And I think it's okay to talk about some of these things in the context of issues that we need to expect Washington to deal with. Talking about the issues of education that we have, talk about the fact that things are costing too much for people and what's causing that. You don't necessarily have to get all involved in the R versus D and even the candidates, but raising the level of consciousness of these issues and what's happening right now, the fact, you know, one of the reasons I'm going to Washington, because, you know, those 700,000 people I talked about, all of that's at risk now because of the one big beautiful bill that was passed with the cuts that were made already. People who had been on the Affordable Care act, there's 22% of them less this year because they couldn't afford the premiums. And a lot of the rest of them who got health care under the Affordable Care act had to get higher deductibles, and it's going to cost them a lot more because they couldn't afford the premiums otherwise. And just talk about these issues that are, are affecting people every single day to raise the consciousness of it. And I know laugh lines. These are not subjects that are funny. But I do think that as you engage in other ways, that now is the time where we all need to step up and do what we can to, I think, provide a course correction for our country while we still can. And look, I'm optimistic. You know, when things are on the verge of destruction, a lot of times you have an opportunity to recreate them even better than they were before. And let's face it, a lot of government programs have done some good, but they were bloated and bureaucratic and didn't do all the things that they need to do. We can take this opportunity now that a lot of things have been destroyed and make them more effective, efficient. Leverage technology and AI and bring Republicans in and say, hey, let's give the taxpayers a better deal here. Let's create a better FEMA to make it work better when disasters occur. I think we've got a real opportunity to do that. And somebody like me who's been on the front line of these issues and have seen how things work on the ground, I think I can go up and contribute to solutions at the end of the day.

[Pen Holderness]

Governor Cooper, thank you, old friend. It has been an honor to hear you talk and to watch you lead our state. And it just, it felt good talking to you.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

You know, I want to be like Chris Farley when he used to do his bit on Saturday Night Live. Remember when, Remember when?

[Kim Holderness]

All the time.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

I, I, you know, I, I wanted to say, remember when you guys played Charlie Barrons and his wife pickleball? So that to me was funny because we, my wife and I watched Charlie early and we watch you and that, that was, that was really, that was really great. I could, I could do a lot of those with you guys. You're, you're fantastic.

[Kim Holderness]

All I know is I'm just going to replay this interview and all the nice things you say about me when I'm having a bad day because you're, this is very good for my ego. This is very good for my ego. Well, good luck out there.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

You got it.

[Kim Holderness]

We appreciate your time.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Maybe have me back someday soon. Would love it.

[Kim Holderness]

Would love that.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

All right.

[Kim Holderness]

I love that. Okay, Take care.

[Pen Holderness]

Thank you. I know, I know you're busy. It's great to see you again.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Same. See you later.

[Kim Holderness]

More on this after these words. I'm pretty sure if our son could eat Mac and cheese every single day for every single meal, he would.

[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

We're huge fans and personally don't mind paying a small monthly fee to offload the stress, researching and decision fatigue of eating healthy.

[Pen Holderness]

Plus you can easily shop from high protein meals, Low Sugar Treats GLP1 friendly options or gluten free staples Ready to

[Kim Holderness]

make some healthy swaps and become a member? Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com holderness for 30% off your first order plus us a free $60 gift.

[Pen Holderness]

But seriously, we do need more Mac and cheese. We should get on that. Motivation comes and goes, but habits. Habits show up even when you don't feel like it. AG1 is the easiest habit that you can start now to support consistency. Even when motivation isn't perfect, it's an

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

Most supplements over complicate things with tons of pills and confusing timing. Well, AG1 simplifies your nutrition. Multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and Antioxidants

[Kim Holderness]

all in one scoop 20 seconds one scoop 8 ounces of water done. Drink it first thing before coffee before checking your phone. It will become a microhabit that anchors everything else.

[Pen Holderness]

Health routines don't need a full a full rebrand every year. Sometimes it's just the small things you do every day, even when everything else is chaos.

[Kim Holderness]

And the new next gen formula? They've added more vitamins, minerals than ever clinically proven to fill common nutrient gaps.

[Pen Holderness]

Kim I use this every day. I love it and you should try it too. AG1 also comes in Original Citrus Berry and Tropical. My favorite is Citrus but you can experiment with the flavors. They are all delicious.

[Kim Holderness]

AG1 has over 50,000 verified 5 star reviews and comes with a 90 day money back guarantee.

[Pen Holderness]

For a limited time only. Go to drinkag1.com laughlines to get a free AG1 flavor sampler and AGZ sampler to try all the flavors. Plus free vitamin D3 plus K2 and AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order.

[Kim Holderness]

This is a limited time offer only while supplies last. That's Drink AG1

[Pen Holderness]

Drink AG1.com laughlines starting

[Kim Holderness]

something new isn't just hard, it's terrifying. So much work goes into this thing that you're not entirely sure will work out and it can be hard to take that leap of faith.

[Pen Holderness]

Trust us, we know when we started all this we weren't sure how it was going to go. Like what if no one listens or watches? What if I make a fool of myself?

[Kim Holderness]

Now we know it was right to put believe in ourselves despite all the fears and hesitations. It also helps when you have a partner like shopify on your side to

[Pen Holderness]

Help Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Heinz, Mattel and of course the Holderness family Shop.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling.

[Kim Holderness]

Best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping, to processing returns and beyond.

[Pen Holderness]

And what if you get stuck? Well, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support.

[Kim Holderness]

It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today.

[Pen Holderness]

Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com laughlines go to

[Kim Holderness]

shopify.com laughlines that's shopify.com laughlines.

[Pen Holderness]

So the interview's over. So our producer, Ann Marie Tapke. Congratulations. Amory played Charlie Barron's wife.

[Kim Holderness]

I thought it was just more partner.

[Pen Holderness]

Right. It wasn't even implied. So the. So Governor Cooper now believes that Charlie Barrons is married to Anne Marie Tapke. And I just want to congratulate you.

[Peloton Announcer]

You know, I don't know how we're

[Kim Holderness]

gonna break the news to Steve. No, I'm sorry. Sorry Steve, you've been replaced.

[Pen Holderness]

How you doing?

[Kim Holderness]

I'm doing great.

[Pen Holderness]

Were you impressed with his knowledge of like bots and algorithms and stuff like that?

[Kim Holderness]

I echo that. I don't believe we're as divided as, as the Internet makes us think. I think there's a lot of loud bots out there. And I am. Listen, my job is on social media. We pay our mortgage because of the work we do on social media. I do think that there are, there's a lot of good that can come from it. But I'm not an idiot. I honestly hearing, I was reminded of all the work your dad did in our community, like Urban ministries, which is an incredible organization that like cross, you know, the religious spectrum here. Just all in, you know, all faiths. And the food bank, spreading that to eastern North Carolina. I'm like, I, instead of just opening my phone and being filled with rage, I just need to go freaking volunteer somewhere. I need to.

[Pen Holderness]

And it would make you feel better

[Kim Holderness]

and it would make me feel better. And I mean we donate to the food bank, we donate to all these people, but I probably just need to show up and serve.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And that would. And I think if we all Just like, put the phones down for a

[Pen Holderness]

beat, rolled our sleeves up and got

[Kim Holderness]

to work in our own community. I just think that it's. We're going to all feel a lot better.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. Beautiful.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, so that was a very serious conversation, but now we have to get back to the not so serious stuff. I mentioned the other day that with my adult money, I can buy cookie cakes. And I have been buying cookie cakes. And we got an email from Ann Kim mentioned along the lines of, when you're an adult, you can spend money, money on things like cookie cake. Which inspired both Ann and her brother to buy one last week.

[Pen Holderness]

So you inspired someone to go buy a cookie cake.

[Kim Holderness]

So her brother, they. They live in different states and he had to go to three different stores to find a cookie cake. So the theory is that our mentioning of cookie cakes has just put a run a run on cookie cakes. So now time for our segment that has not yet been sponsored. Pens crumbs of knowledge.

[Pen Holderness]

Nibbles. It says nibbles of knowledge.

[Kim Holderness]

That sounds weird. That sounds weird to say. Okay, but this is where Sam turns pen into a cookie and he tells you the three things that he has learned from this episode.

[Pen Holderness]

I want to name this. The way the cookie crumbles.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Pen Holderness]

Because that's what I was raised saying. That's the way the cookie crumbles. So, like, here's the way the cookie crumbles. You don't have to put my name in it. This is bigger than me.

[Kim Holderness]

But. But he still needs to be a cookie. And this segment is open for sponsorship by the big cookie corporations of America.

[Pen Holderness]

The leap that you just took from. I got one email to. We are causing a run on cookies in America is one of my favorite things. I've. I've heard of this podcast that was a Carl Lewis triple jump right there.

[Kim Holderness]

He made. He made me feel really good about myself.

[Pen Holderness]

You are. You are feeling some you right now.

[Kim Holderness]

Here's how the cookie crumbles.

[Pen Holderness]

Does that, does that feel good?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, now I'm a cookie. I don't want to be overly political. Try to be down the middle for this, for the, for the cookie. Right. Number one, teaching Sunday school is hard. He. He mentioned that briefly, just in passing, that he's. He's spent two and a half decades teaching Sunday school and he was exhausted. Do you remember the pit sweat that I would come out with?

[Kim Holderness]

Do music for the little kids. And it was the best for the. The people that were teaching Sunday school would.

[Pen Holderness]

They got a break.

[Kim Holderness]

They got a break.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And they're like, keep singing. Keep singing. But he would have just, like, herds of kids coming out in and out for an hour. And he. It's hard.

[Pen Holderness]

So the way that Sunday school is set up, first of all, it's made out, it's love and volunteers and all that stuff. But it's kids who get to be away from their parents and they don't have to be at church, so they feel a certain sense of, all right, it's go time.

[Kim Holderness]

And they're high on, like, sugar cookies and lemonade.

[Pen Holderness]

They give them so much sugar. And then. And then they're like, oh, well, let's go see Mr. Holderness. And I listen. I keep doing it because I love it. And I love. I love being able to spread joy in any way that I can. And this does ultimately feel like I spread joy. I do it a little differently. I bring my guitar. I sing, like, different versions of the song. I taught kids how to sing in a round.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Pen Holderness]

But I, like, literally, I've done.

[Kim Holderness]

You can't do anything.

[Pen Holderness]

I have performed in front of thousands of people. My videos are in front of millions of people. Those kids cause my armpits to spew sweat. Just garden hose for, like, 20 minutes. So I'm with him on teaching. Sunday school is hard, very hard. Number two, he just kept saying a lot of stuff about yearning for decency and then standing in other people's shoes. I want to be better for the next several months, especially as we go into, like, another political cycle of at least trying to stand in other people's shoes and understand what they are going through, whether I agree with them or not. We learned this from Carlos Whitaker. I need to be reminded that I've got to stand in other people's shoes.

[Kim Holderness]

That's all I do as an empath. And, like, it's some. It's. It. It's very pain. It's. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard. And I think that I need to probably be more present and realize that, like, I. I wake up thinking, like,

[Pen Holderness]

you're in other people's shoes. You wake up in other people.

[Kim Holderness]

I wake up in other people's shoes, and I feel this very, like, dire consequences. And I am like, okay, I'm safe.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, this. Like, that was a little deeper of a conversation. Is it still okay that I am a cookie?

[Kim Holderness]

Yes, you're a cookie.

[Pen Holderness]

So we're still a cookie.

[Kim Holderness]

We're still a cookie.

[Pen Holderness]

And number three, it doesn't matter what you do or say or try to tell me to do. Or to say, unc Duke will find a way into this conversation because it was a top one memory for my son.

[Kim Holderness]

Yay, Top one.

[Pen Holderness]

He said it was unironically the best night of his life. And of course, Governor Cooper brought it up. I got my socks on.

[Kim Holderness]

Now it's time to head to the laugh line.

[Pen Holderness]

Everyone will find laughter. Call us up and you tell us what's on your mind.

[Kim Holderness]

It's so important that we make people feel seen and feel heard. And we did a podcast with Jennifer Wallace about her book on mattering, and we got so much feedback. And we got two calls, two different calls with very unique perspectives.

[Caller 1]

Hey, Tim and Pam. I just finished watching the Friendships that Matter with Jennifer Wallace episode. By the end of the episode that I kind of was thinking about Mr. Rogers and how he would do the same for us. When we were 5 or 4 and we watched Mr. Rogers, he would tell us how important we mattered. I think Jennifer Wallace is kind of just doing the same thing just for us adults now that we've grown up in a more complex world that we live in and. And not with a farmer with a book and spoken word.

[Kim Holderness]

I love that. And it's so funny. Since we put the podcast out, I've been more intentional about texting and reaching out to friends. And now because we recorded the podcast a couple weeks ago, it came out and now they're like, oh, it's because you had this author on. I'm like, no, no, no. You actually, you matter.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, I get it. So you texted, then the podcast came out, and then they felt like you were just doing it. Well, so I same. I've been doing the same thing and. But you know what I've also been doing is noticing when people do it for me more. Right. Like, I think sometimes I'm like, okay, they're texting. Let's move on. But, like, now I realize, okay, I don't do that very well. They're doing it. They're reaching out. Good for them.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, and this next call from Jill, Jill from Jersey.

[Caller 2]

I have to say I absolutely loved, loved, love Jennifer Wallace this morning. I think she's like my new therapist, my new favorite self help person. Something that wasn't talked about, which is pretty interesting that I learned myself, is that you should want to be friends with people who you matter to. So in college, I was so worried about being friends with the quote unquote popular crew. I totally just didn't even see that the people that really cared about me and said that I mattered. I kind of just like, blew them off to the wayside. And now as an adult, it's so important for me to be friends with the people who I matter to. So that was just something that I really brought out of this and something that we all need to really think about. You want to be friends with people who you matter to, not only who matter to you.

[Pen Holderness]

What a beautiful way to talk about something that everyone has been through.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

For me, I was in high school. I wanted to be friends with the in crowd. And then college, I just. I. That was less of a priority to me, and I think it's why I had so much more fun in college.

[Kim Holderness]

It is so hard to make friends as an adult.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And. And. And to truly find your people. And even as an adult, they're like popular people there. I mean, they're. They're like groups that are very active socially and always posting on social media. I don't have fomo, so I'm okay not being in those groups, But I know people who are sad when they're not included, so it's hard. Find the people who you matter to. I love that. Chill.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

All right.

[Pen Holderness]

I want to finish by saying that it's. It's all. I mean, it was really cool hearing from Governor Cooper. I know that, listen, I know he's a politician. I know that he is. He's. He's running for one particular side of what's going on. I loved hearing some of the stuff in the middle, and then this is just going to be me being selfish. Like, I just loved, like, hearing him talk about my dad, and I had to fight back tears because he reminds me of him. And there's something about that ability to reach across the aisle that directly is impacted by what you were just talking about, like, getting out and finding people and speaking to them face to face.

[Kim Holderness]

I remember one time we met, we were in the process of moving down to North Carolina, and first of all, the original house that we were supposed to get fell through because it was like a money pit. So we had to come. We had to live with your parents for like a month to six weeks when we first moved down, and everybody was like, oh, my. You had to move in with your in laws. And Lola was a baby, like a year old. It was the best six weeks of my life.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

First of all, your dad made breakfast every morning. Your mom did laundry. They take the baby on the walkthrough. Like, it would be. It would mean so much to us if we could just take her for the day. I'm like, you're welcome. So, first of all, it was the best six weeks of my life. But I remember we went out to lunch. We went to Foster's Market, which is like my favorite, and we had driven separately. And you and I are pulling out, and then your dad's pulling out, and he's rolled down his window and he's talking to somebody who, if they're not unhoused, they're. They're struggling, like, visibly struggling, and this person's asking for money. Your dad puts this man in his car and drives away. And your dad didn't have a car phone, so.

[Pen Holderness]

Which, by the way, he called it a car phone.

[Kim Holderness]

A car phone until the day he died.

[Governor Roy Cooper]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And so we were very worried what was going to happen happened. And he drove this person, I think, was it to urban ministry somewhere where there was like, jobs, resources, there's rent, resources, there's. So he drove this person to an organization to get help. But I was like, hey, would. You can't just put strangers in your car. And he goes, I have faith in people. I have faith that people want this help, and the faith that people are trying the best they can. And that is just such a lesson. That was just such a lesson to me. And so I agree that that's why I miss your dad so much right now.

[Pen Holderness]

So that.

[Kim Holderness]

That.

[Pen Holderness]

That directive to get off of social media is in a direct conflict with our business model, but B, also something that would be, I would imagine, tough for you to do fully if it comes down to like. Like putting the phone down and going to see new perspectives from, like, not just from. From people that you know or that you agree with, but.

[Kim Holderness]

But.

[Pen Holderness]

But from everyone and, like, taking the opportunity to walk with them. I'm not saying it's hard just for you. I'm saying for you, those of you who are watching, I don't think you

[Kim Holderness]

totally have to kick the cell phone and get rid of it. Totally. I think that I have time limits on my phone. I've been busting through those lately. And so that has impacted my mental health. I just need to rewire my algorithm to be puppy videos.

[Pen Holderness]

Just that.

[Kim Holderness]

And. And like, pimple popping. Like, if I could just do that.

[Pen Holderness]

I mean, it's. There's plenty of them in there. Because, like, you. We have. The TikTok algorithm is like, hold family. We don't have a personal one. So anytime I come on there, it's just puppies. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

You know what I want for my 50th birthday? I'm about to turn 50 soon and I should have asked for it ahead of time. I just want to go to a farm where there's just golden retriever puppies and I just want to sit in a field and want to have golden retrievers crawl all over you. Crawl all over me.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

And puppies would be great. Older dog's fine. I just feel like the world would be better if we could all just sit in a field with golden retrievers.

[Pen Holderness]

I just wrote this down like I was going to research it, but you're going to get 75 emails from this podcast.

[Kim Holderness]

I would get on a plane for it.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, dear.

[Kim Holderness]

Truly, I would get on a plane for this. But there has to be something in North Carolina where I could just go sit in a field and just be surrounded by puppies. It doesn't have to be specifically golden retrievers. I just have a golden retriever and I'm obsessed with her.

[Pen Holderness]

So it's your 50th. Ask for something. Like, if you want golden retrievers, ask for golden retrievers.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much for joining us and thank you for joining us on this, like, wild path that we're on. And I hope you stay on social media to watch us. But if you need to protect your mental health, I get it. Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Either way, try to supplement it with some real face to face time with people.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. Ready for credits?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. Let's do it. Laugh Lines is written and produced by Kim Holderness, Penn Holderness and Mrs. Charlie Behrens, Ann Marie Tapke with original music by Pen Holderness. It is filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by Acast. As always, we'd love to hear from you. Please write to us at podcastheholdernessfamily.com or

[Kim Holderness]

leave us a voicemail 323-364-3929 and we

[Pen Holderness]

will talk to you soon on Laughline.

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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