College Breaks & Changing Relationships with Dr. Lisa Damour

Summary

Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness

Episode: "College Breaks & Changing Relationships with Dr. Lisa Damour"

Date: December 16, 2025
Guests: Dr. Lisa Damour (Psychologist, best-selling author, parenting expert)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the emotional and practical challenges faced by families when their college-aged children return home for breaks. Kim and Penn Holderness are joined by Dr. Lisa Damour, a psychologist and author known for her expertise in parenting teens and young adults. The conversation explores how both children and parents transform during this period, how to navigate changing boundaries, communication, and the evolving “roommate” dynamic at home. Dr. Damour offers wisdom, relatable anecdotes, and practical scripts for parents, aiming to help families handle this transition with grace and humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Strange New World of College Breaks

[13:07, Kim]: Kim describes the “weird” evolution experienced when her daughter comes home from college—a person who has grown more independent, while parents themselves also change.

• Acknowledgment that the “child” returning home is now a developing adult.
• Parents experience conflicting emotions and sometimes grief as home dynamics shift.

2. Knowing It’s Not Personal

(Dr. Lisa) [25:44]:

• It’s critical to remember that changes in your child’s behavior—like calling campus “home” or being less eager for family activities—aren’t personal rejections.
  • “None of this is personal… As soon as you go down that road, it does not ever end well.” – Dr. Lisa Damour [25:44]
  • Parents should “midwife” their children into adult independence, seeing college as the perfect in-between of youth and the wider world.

3. Navigating the “Roommate Phase”

[27:06, Dr. Lisa / 27:28, Penn]:

• Returning college students should be treated more like roommates than children when they come home, with corresponding expectations about shared living.
  • “She still has to be a good roommate… respectful co-living.” – Dr. Lisa Damour [27:06]
  • Encourage explicit communication regarding schedules, meals, and shared spaces.
  • Create space for mistakes and crosswires, and approach them as a team.

4. Communication Scripts & Practical Phrasing

[28:48, Dr. Lisa]:

• Dr. Lisa suggests transparent, agenda-free communication:
  • “We're so excited to have you home and we are feeling our way—you’re feeling your way, we're feeling our way through what our relationship looks like now and what it’s like to live together now.”
• Encourage a “problem-solve together” mindset for inevitable bumps, missed signals, or changing plans.

5. Sibling Dynamics & Fairness

[30:32, Dr. Lisa]:

• Younger siblings can complicate the dynamic, as different rules often apply (e.g., tech in bedrooms, curfews).
• Normalize age-appropriate privileges while still reinforcing boundaries for younger kids.

6. Monitoring Wellbeing: Academics & Mental Health

[35:49, Kim / 35:59, Dr. Lisa]:

• Signs a student might need support after a difficult semester: not “bouncing back” after time at home, persistent low mood, lack of motivation about returning to college.
  • “Change equals stress. That is just the formula.” – Dr. Lisa Damour [36:47]
• Parents should be attentive but not intrusive; trust their gut if something feels wrong.

7. Substance Use: Honest Conversations

[38:24, Kim / 38:37, Dr. Lisa]:

• Discuss substance use openly: “What’s the scene like? Does it feel unsafe?”
• Fentanyl and overdose prevention are also discussed; Dr. Lisa recommends every college student have access to Narcan.

8. Embracing the Fun of Adult Kids

[41:31, Dr. Lisa]:

• Celebrate the evolution! Adult children are fascinating, creative, and often bring new friends and perspectives.
  • “They get so interesting. I mean, they are interesting, you know how I feel about teenagers… and then it just goes up from there.” – Dr. Lisa Damour [41:31]
• Kim shares the joy of reconnecting with her daughter’s high school friends, marvelling at their growth.

9. Handling Change and Letting Go

[44:50, Penn / 45:53, Dr. Lisa]:

• Parents must adjust to their adult kids sometimes shifting plans or being less available.
• Don’t try to shoehorn big conversations into chance encounters; ask when’s a good time to talk.

10. Parental “Tracking” & the Balance of Trust

[47:56, Dr. Lisa / 52:01, Penn / 53:30, Kim]:

• Debate over using location-tracking apps on college students; balance between concern and respect for independence.
  • “There are so many more touch points, and I don’t know if that’s infringing occasionally on the freedom that we should be allowing our kids when they’re in college.” – Penn Holderness [54:39]
• Dr. Lisa admits she sometimes gets updates via a sibling—humorously dubbing this “shady.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On letting go:
  “Midwifing her into adult independence—that’s the way to think about college.” — Dr. Lisa Damour [25:44]

• On being a “roommate”:
  “She was a kid, she was a daughter. So we're transitioning—I've never heard it said this way—into her being a roommate… a partial roommate.” — Penn & Dr. Lisa [27:28–27:36]

• On family communication:
  “Wires are going to get crossed and expect it… try to handle it with superior communication.” — Pen Holderness [65:51]

• On tracking and independence:
  “There is nothing you can do [with location tracking]. I think sometimes people... do this for safety—but what are you gonna do?” — Dr. Lisa Damour [57:51]

• On hope for the future:
  “They get so interesting… The thrill of them becoming, and really discovering who they are and what they’re into, it’s an amazing thing.” — Dr. Lisa Damour [41:31–44:06]

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Time-Stamped Breakdown of Highlights

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 13:07 | Kim discusses the weirdness of her daughter returning changed—and how the parents are changed too. | | 25:44 | Dr. Lisa discusses not taking things personally when kids call dorms/apartments “home.” | | 27:06 | Introduction of the “roommate” model for returning college kids. | | 28:48 | Dr. Lisa offers sample scripts for awkward family conversations. | | 30:32 | Sibling dynamics complicate post-college-break home life. | | 36:47 | Change = Stress: Normalizing exhaustion and recovery after college. | | 38:24–40:49 | Conversation about substance use, Narcan, and open communication. | | 41:31 | Embracing and celebrating the joy of young adults’ growth and interests. | | 44:50 | Shifting expectations; waiting for the right time to talk. | | 52:01–54:56 | Poll: Should parents track their kids in college? Kim & Dr. Lisa’s experiences. | | 65:23–66:32 | Pen’s “Three Nuggets” Takeaway: roommate roles, crossed wires, celebration. |

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Pen’s 3 (Actually 4) Nuggets Takeaways

[65:23–67:01]:

1. Roommate Shift: When your college kid comes home, expect them to act more like a roommate—manage courtesy and expectations accordingly.
2. Expect Crossed Wires: Miscommunications are inevitable. Don’t panic; handle them with open, supportive communication.
3. Celebrate Growth: Appreciate the fascinating, evolving person your child is becoming.
4. Bonus Nugget: Let your kid “hibernate” during college breaks—the return to a real bed after dorm life is something to relish, not fight.

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Closing & Resources

• Dr. Lisa Damour promotes her resources:
  • Free “Rosalie” AI advice based on her writing [59:36]
  • "Ask Lisa" podcast & newsletter
• Dr. Lisa previews her keynote at UNICEF’s inaugural Global Caregiver Summit [61:17]
• The hosts discuss evolving language around accessibility and inclusivity—modeling learning and humility into the podcast’s spirit.

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Memorable Closing Quote:
“Celebrate the wonderful new person that you are welcoming in… it can seem alien and strange, but… how lucky you are to have that.” — Pen Holderness [66:32]

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For listeners grappling with college breaks or approaching this stage, Dr. Lisa’s advice is reassuring, rooted in research, and delivered with warmth. Kim and Penn’s humor and vulnerability make the episode relatable, and Dr. Lisa’s practical scripts and perspective shifts offer comfort and actionable strategies for families in transition.

Transcript

[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

That's balanceofnature.com and use code Holderness. This is exclusively a me problem that I want my children's home to be here.

[Pen Holderness]

I've never heard it said this way. We're transitioning into her being a roommate.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I think a partial roommate, right?

[Pen Holderness]

I mean, everybody's a little bit there. If we vote on that, everyone's going to say yes, and I'm going to have to start writing space songs and I'm going to spend most of my time apologizing to people. Yeah, we get older every day got more wrinkles.

[Kim Holderness]

That's okay.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah, we're laughing.

[Pen Holderness]

When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we got land.

[Kim Holderness]

Hey, everybody, I'm Kim Holderness.

[Pen Holderness]

And I'm Penn Holderness. And welcome to Laugh Lines. We're so glad you're here.

[Kim Holderness]

If you high fived yourself after getting a full night's sleep, cell five, you are home. We are your people. This is the sort of thing we celebrate in our house.

[Pen Holderness]

A full night of uninterrupted sleep.

[Kim Holderness]

Uninterrupted sleep. If you are redoing your guest room to make it nicer because maybe you and your husband are gonna spend more nights apart, although they are deeply in love with, but want interrupted sleep and free from snoring, you're in the right place. Then your name might be Kim Holderness.

[Pen Holderness]

No, I'm. Hey, I'm on board with that because I'm usually the one who gets Kicked because I'm the night owl, but I'm.

[Kim Holderness]

Redoing it so that, like, I, I like repaint and make.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, but that'll help me, too, because maybe you'll want to go.

[Kim Holderness]

I'll go over there.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Because right now it's just like a dumping ground of, like, furniture we had when we were first married.

[Pen Holderness]

That's true.

[Kim Holderness]

And so I'm going to repaint.

[Pen Holderness]

We got the peloton out of there.

[Kim Holderness]

We got the peloton.

[Pen Holderness]

You don't want that. Like, you're sleeping in. All of a sudden, you're, like, sleeping in separate beds. All of a sudden, you.

[Kim Holderness]

And you.

[Pen Holderness]

Hear Cody, like, shake them, and you're like. Does he or does he not say that?

[Kim Holderness]

Yes, he does. Okay, sorry. We have an amazing episode for you today. Dr. Lisa D' Amore is here, and she is helping us, our listeners, navigate the transition from your, your, your. You're parenting a high school student, you're parenting a teenager. Now you're parenting a young adult. And it's a weird transition, y', all, for everybod. And she's got some amazing advice. We've already talked to her, so we're speaking to you from the future. And she had some great advice.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. So Dr. Lisa has always said, like, her main mission in life has been to help these children.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Right.

[Pen Holderness]

She, like, she's a clinician. She works with the children. In that sense, the books have been about, like, the kids. But really, she's, she is starting to branch out. She's got a new book coming out which you'll hear about in a bit, which will deal with the parents and how they respond to all of this. And so, you know, I never heard her talk to us this way about it and help us understand it as a parent as well as she did this week. And listen, we know that a lot of you watch us because you're going through some of the same things that we are. So this is generally about parents, but it's a lot about us. Like, there's, we're actively going through this.

[Kim Holderness]

Right now, and we're going to set the scene in a second. But first, this is very important. We have to go to the laugh lines. We recently put out what I thought was a very funny, silly video about how it's getting darker earlier. Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

We're getting close to winners who the days, they are getting shorter from the stupid sun. She's about to start dealing with some seasonal effective disorder. Irritated by everyone. It's funny, right? It did well.

[Kim Holderness]

Funny, harmless.

[Pen Holderness]

A Lot of people watched it.

[Kim Holderness]

But people came for you again in the comments. If you're a loyal listener to the show, you know, a science teacher. Pam came for Pen, and Pen has apologized about the difference between. I wasn't really wrong, you know, the difference between what?

[Pen Holderness]

Revelation and revolution.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. And people came for Pen again in the comments of this most recent video about, really about specificity of the Earth's access from Linda. You might want to explain the Earth's access tilt from Shannon. We are actually closest to the stupid sun. She put in quotes in January. Seasons are caused by axial tilt, knock proximity to the sun. Welcome to my TED Talk. It goes on. Trisha says, actually we are closer to the sun. I'll show myself out. So I, I. There were more. There were more. Bill Nye, you are not. But here's the deal, you guys. My husband knows way too much about space. He knows so much about space, you guys. So when I see people coming for you in the comments, I'm like, babe, what's happening? Do you have a response?

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, so thanks, Linda and Shannon and Trisha and I think I read like 14 other ones about this. They were referring to the line, getting farther from the stupid sun.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Pen Holderness]

Because it's getting colder. Right, Right. I am aware that we are not in apogee right now, which is orbitally the farthest that we are from the Sun. Perigee is when we're the closest to the Sun. Apogee is when we're the farthest. The Earth has an oval elliptical orbit around the sun, and that doesn't affect temperatures on our planet as much as to her point, axial tilt. Now, essentially, the Earth spins on a 23 and a half degree axis, meaning that the sun is always hitting at an angle. So there's like, there is, there is a spot of direct sun exposure. Right. And it never goes above the Tropic of Cancer or below the Tropic of Capricorn. I hope I'm not getting those backwards. If I am, they're coming for me again. But basically, that's the zone where you're getting direct sun.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Pen Holderness]

And that's why the equator is, like, so hot, because it's always getting direct sun or close to direct sun all the time. So I was considering being farther from the sun, how far we are from the Sun's most direct point of contact.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

Because right now, the sun's most direct. Yes. Tomorrow, like, very soon. This is December 16, right. In five days or so, the sun is going to be hitting directly on the tropic of Capricorn, which is the farthest from us. Right. So the sun's direct exposure is farther from us.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

I didn't have time in the song to write all that, but technically, we are getting farther from the stupid sun in that sense.

[Kim Holderness]

How could you have said it better?

[Pen Holderness]

Well, here's what I did, because I saw this coming. And for those of you several people who wanted to correct me and thank you. Thank you for correcting me.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you.

[Pen Holderness]

I just wanted you to hear what this song would have sounded like if I had. If I had explained all this.

[Kim Holderness]

Stop it. You recorded a song?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. Ready?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

We're getting close to winners. So the days they are getting shot shorter. Farther from the stupid sun. And by that, I mean farther from the sun's most direct exposure, which is currently way down in the Southern Hemisphere, not referring to the actual distance from Earth. Face a Jeff and lend up for correcting even. Do you see how explaining all of this kind of breaks up the momentum of the song getting irritated by everyone? So that just would have been. I don't think the song would have been as fun.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, hear me out.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Sorry.

[Kim Holderness]

By the way, that's a bop.

[Pen Holderness]

Thank you.

[Kim Holderness]

Total bop.

[Pen Holderness]

Thank you. Just like, it's a little bit longer.

[Kim Holderness]

That little. What if we start a separate channel? Okay. And you have to vote and send me messages. You guys were great. By the way, our last podcast where I said, if you made it to this point, message us. You guys messaged us. And I love that for you. Like, for us all. What if you made a separate channel and it's like, pens, space, songs don't do this. And it's just songs about, like, quantum physics.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay. But thank you. I would love doing that because I love learning about it, but I'm not going to get it. All right, so it's just going to be a series of people telling me things that I got wrong because I don't have a science degree. Most of what I know about this. Can we be honest? Is from science fiction books. Like, hard science fiction. Like, stuff that actually makes sense and is physically possible. But if we vote on that, everyone's going to say yes, and I'm going to have to start writing space songs, and I'm going to spend most of my time apologizing to people.

[Kim Holderness]

Then we all learn when you apologize.

[Pen Holderness]

That's true. I mean, do you feel smarter or dumber than you did 10 minutes ago?

[Kim Holderness]

Super smart.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you.

[Pen Holderness]

You're welcome. And thank you ever. Like, seriously. Can I just say I love all the comments. I love all of them. I love and I love.

[Kim Holderness]

I think people are going to look to correct you now. So you think.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh yeah, I think it's already happened.

[Kim Holderness]

I love it.

[Pen Holderness]

So there you go.

[Kim Holderness]

Let's get to the beef of the show. Okay. Lola coming home for Thanksgiving break, which recently happened, we discovered our daughter has changed in the best way. She has told us her favorite thing about this college experience is learning how to do things herself. Like having a problem and figuring it out. And you can tell, like, she is a changed person. She is more grown up. What I was not expecting is that we have also changed like we used to be. I mean we still have a 15 year old at home and that's great. But like, you and I have changed as like we've changed now into parents of a young adult. And I don't know, I don't have the right words to describe it, but it's an evolution. That is just the only way I could say. It's just weird.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

So like, how would you describe, you know, that. That time that she first came home.

[Kim Holderness]

I would say there was a little dance the first day or so because she's used to extreme independence. I will say hats off to Lola. She's like, let's talk about this. We had a talk and so good after that. But we needed to have a chat. And again, I will say it was mostly on me. Like, it was exclusively a me problem with like. And I even said this to her. I'm like, I deeply apologize. The things I have in my head of like the expectations and all this. It's a me thing you do. You. I'm going to be over here figuring out.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Why I feel weird and, and I'm.

[Pen Holderness]

Glad you did that. I think you just as a kind of a. I think a lot of this was between you and Lola. And I will say the way that you spoke to her was excellent. I thought that you dealt with it really well. I thought that you like, when you were talking directly to her, I think you were saying mostly the right things. It was interesting because then you would talk to me and I, and like, I heard more probably than, than Lola did. So I absorbed quite a bit of that. And so, you know, I've been trying to give advice on it and I don't know how to give advice. Like, I, I'm doing the best I can here. So I'm super glad to have to have Lisa here to sort of take over for me. Yeah, a little bit.

[Kim Holderness]

This is such A critical time, I think. And if you're not at the stage of parenting yet, this will be a good pod to listen to because.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I.

[Kim Holderness]

I just, I know what it's like to live like, you know, most of my family still lives in Florida, so I live far from home. And I know how easy it is to just. When you're, when you're missing those events and you don't get to finish the conversations. Like it's very. It's easier than not for things to get weird. And so I, I was so aware of that that I just really wanted to, like, I never want it to be weird. I want this to always feel like a safe place. Let's have a really. Let's over communicate. But still I'm like, I have this deep fear of doing it wrong. So there were some texts and calls to Dr. Lisa Damore and so we thought we would bring her on. She is a podcast favorite and a favorite of our family to give just some reassurance and some amazing advice. Real quick, you might hear me mention Lola's accident. My. What my worst nightmare was was being far away and then something happening and I couldn't be there right away. And it happened. We. First of all, she's fine, so I guess it didn't happen. She was. She's totally fine. But we got a text because I missed a call, which never happens, and it said, it's an emergency. I just got hit by a car. She was crossing a sidewalk. She had the walk sign. It was dark, it was like seven o'. Clock, but you know, the sun's down and. And a car turned left into her. Lola hit the ground, but because she's young and has collagen and her bones are strong, she like, was fine. Like she.

[Pen Holderness]

Or she was telling us she was fine.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, like her back hurt and her like foot hurt because, I mean, she hit the ground, but she exchanged numbers and got insurance people, other people stopped like every. But she like, she's like, mom, I'm fine. I'm totally. The next day I made her go to like the student health center. They gave her some Mucinex because she had a cold. Like that. That was the big takeaway. So she was totally fine. But for us to get that text and then subsequent phone calls, we realized that like, truly, there's nothing we could have done in that moment. We could have started driving, but like all the flights, like by like 7:00 clock at night, like we weren't going to catch a flight and we could have started driving, be There, middle of night for what? You know.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, that's all true. Um, and if I may just add some more context to it, it, it also did show me that, like, we are in a, in a brave new kind of uncharted world. Because, like, watching your reaction to it, you were obviously concerned. Right. But it didn't really hit you until then. Until the next day. Like, I, so I got on the phone and I was talking to her and you were saying, it's fine, everything's going to be fine. Everything's going to be fine. And you know, so I kind of talked her on the walk home, which I was glad I could do something. Yeah, that dad's, that like, dads, we. Anytime we can be useful for our daughter, we're like, it's like, I just want to thank the Lord for giving me a chance to be useful for my daughter. But then, but then really the next day, it kind of, it kind of.

[Kim Holderness]

Hits you because you processed things in real time, which is what normal people should do. In another podcast, we're going to talk about my ability to just be a. I could be a hero in the moment. I am so good in a crisis. But the following days I was like, holy crap. Like, what would have happened, like, if she was hurt? Like, and I started like spiraling then and like, but anyway, we're fine.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. And maybe that's not relevant to this, but it was like, to the talk we're about to have. But I think that was another moment where I was like, boy, I would love to have Dr. Lisa.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

On. On the chat. Dr. Lisa D' Amore is a psychologist, bestselling author, and one of the world's most trusted voices when it comes to, to understanding kids and teens. She's written three New York Times best selling books, Untangled Under Pressure and the Emotional Lives of Teenagers. And her works appeared everywhere from the New York Times to the Atlantic to the Wall Street Journal. She's been on the Today Show, CBS News, and most importantly, she is a regular on our podcast and we love her. She's also the co host of the Ask Lisa podcast, which we got to go on, where she tackles real questions from parents with practical, computer compassionate advice. And she's here today to give us some practical, compassionate advice.

[Kim Holderness]

Welcome to the show. Our very favorite Dr. Lisa.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

You are my favorite people.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh my gosh.

[Pen Holderness]

It's mutual. We, we mainly call you when we really need you. And so that's, I feel like that's where we are right now. There's been some texting Kim is. It's a visual medium. Kim's gripping the, the. She's like, she, it's like she's going down for a landing. That's going to be a little sporty, little bumpy.

[Kim Holderness]

A little sporty. Yeah. Okay. Dr. Lisa, this is a what you do for a living, but you've also lived this. So we expected that our sending our kid to college, that she would change. And she has in the best possible way. She's more independent. She's. I mean, she's doing great. I didn't expect that we would also change so that when our child comes home like it is a. It's a very different relationship and it's not, it's not a bad thing. But what the actual heck is happening? More on this after these words.

[Pen Holderness]

This episode is brought to you by Gab.

[Kim Holderness]

It's that time of year again. The holidays are coming fast. And if your little kids are anything like mine were, that list is already getting pretty long.

[Pen Holderness]

Kim, let's be honest. Some of the things on their list made us stop and think like small.

[Kim Holderness]

I remember when our kids were starting to show interest in smartphones. Hey, we love being on the Internet, but it didn't mean we wanted our little ones to have access to the Internet.

[Pen Holderness]

So that's why we were so relieved when we heard about Gab. Gab offers phones and watches made just for kids. So no Internet, no social media and just the right features for their age.

[Kim Holderness]

Honestly, I think I need this as an adult. Kids want phones to feel independent and connected and as parents we want to know they're safe. With Gab, you can have both and protect them from the scary stuff.

[Pen Holderness]

With Gab's tech in steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time. From watches with GPS tracking for the youngest explorers to the perfect first phone with no Internet or social media to the teen phone with parent approved apps.

[Kim Holderness]

So get ready for a Christmas morning they'll never forget the one where they get their first phone. And really, it's a gift for you too. Because these kids say phones will give you peace of mind. Mind.

[Pen Holderness]

Visit gab.com holderness and use the code Holderness for a special holiday offer.

[Kim Holderness]

That's G A B-B.com Holderness Gab Tekken.

[Pen Holderness]

Steps independence for them. Peace of mind for you.

[Kim Holderness]

When it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things people really love. Beautiful, timeless pieces that they're going to wear for years.

[Pen Holderness]

That's why I'm going with quints from Mongolian cashmere sweaters. To Italian wool coats. And everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

Their Italian wool coats are standout pieces. They're beautifully tailored, soft to the touch, and crafted to last for seasons.

[Kim Holderness]

Every piece is made with premium materials from ethical, trusted factories and products priced far below what other luxury brands charge.

[Pen Holderness]

And the craftsmanship shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the drape. It is elevated, timeless, and made to wear on repeat.

[Kim Holderness]

The cashmere feels incredible. Soft, structured, and it doesn't pill. It's the kind of quality I'd normally expect from a $200 sweater, not a $50 sweater. I love Quince's cashmere scarves, gloves, and hats that hold up throughout the season.

[Pen Holderness]

Find gifts so good you'll want to keep them with quints. Go to quince.comholderness for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada, too.

[Kim Holderness]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.comholderness to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comholderness.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

That in between space.

[Kim Holderness]

What is happening? Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Oh, man. It's just like a constant renewal negotiation. Right? And you're working with no roadmap. No roadmap. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. And it's. I think that it felt like. It feels like this, like, very. Like a little dance where we're, like, all trying to figure out what the choreography is. So how should we as parents be approaching this new relationship? Because there's potential for it to be amazing. And how do we. Yes. How do we approach this new relationship without making it weird? And not being the parents that she's like, ugh, I have to go home.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

You know, good deal with those people. We'll think it through together. I just have such a vivid memory. So my older daughter is a senior in college now.

[Kim Holderness]

Wow.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

So, you know, we've done this a long time, and we've done a lot of back and forth and really thought it through and actually had a lot of conversations. But I remember her first winter break of freshman year, she came home and. And one thing that people had prepared me for and it was helpful is that they're sometimes pretty aloof in that first year. And I think it's often, you know, they're just trying to continue to establish their independence. And somebody said to me, they warm up after the first year because it's clearly established. But that first winter break, it was still, you know, being worked out. And I came into the kitchen, and she was wearing her earbuds and she was cooking, and. And she finally saw me and took her earbud out, and I said, are you in your apartment? And she said, yes, I am. She was still exercising that independence, like, at my stove. It was just. It was such a fun little moment because it was like us acknowledging to each other, like, you're actually home, but you're trying to be elsewhere, but you're.

[Kim Holderness]

Also home, but it's it. So that I think that's something else that I have. I. This is a me problem. I kept on saying depend. I'm like, this is exclusively a me problem. That I want my children's home to be here. Like, I want them to feel like this is home. But when she said, oh, I have to, you know, I'm. What time is your flight? She's like, yeah, I'm flying. I heard her say, like, I'm flying home. Her. As if, like, her home not being. Which is like, right. You want to bloom where you planted. You want them to feel great. Right? But she's like, oh, no. I'm like, home. And she's like, no, no, no. Just like, this is home. But that's, like, that's where my stuff is.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

So, like, again, this is a me problem. But, like, how do we readjust this?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Well, but you calling it a me problem is so key. Because the point is, none of this is personal. Right. The way it goes bad is if people start making it personal. Like, you know, what is it about our house that you no longer want to call it a home? Or what is it about me that you don't want to hang out as much as I want to hang out. Right. As soon as you go down that road, it does not ever end well, as long as you can kind of hold that space which you're doing of like, this is midwifing her into adult independence. Like, that's. That's the way to think about college. Right. Like, it's kind of this perfect in between of like the bosom of your home and the big bad world. You know, if you get to send your kid to college and they get to go, it's like a great half step.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

But it's awkward.

[Kim Holderness]

It is so awkward because I think that, you know, in my friend group and families, they have children who did not choose to go to college, but so their first step is like, they're gone. Like they are at their apartment. They're gone. They're not doing this dance of going back and forth. So what, how do we handle. Because when, you know, she lived here, there were curfews and expectations and chores and things you did to participate in the family dynamic. How should we be approaching that?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

A lot of conversation. I think that there needs to be stuff has to be so explicit in ways that you've never done before.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

So one really good framing is she still has to be a good roommate in the same sort of ways that you would want her to extend courtesy and respect and livability with to her college roommate. That holds for you guys too.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

You can't be a bad roommate.

[Pen Holderness]

All right, so we. She wasn't a roommate when she left.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

She was a kid.

[Pen Holderness]

She was a kid, she was a daughter. So we're transitioning. And I've never heard it said this way. We're transitioning into her being a roommate.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I think a partial roommate. Right?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

You're still her parent. Right. And. But I think sometimes the stuff that people struggle with when kids come home from college is actually like respectful co living. Right, Right. What time are you coming and going? You know, are you joining? Should I make enough dinner for you or are you not joining us for dinner? Those kinds of things where you're trying to figure out where are the lines here. And so framing it as like, well, what would a respectful roommate do? Right. They wouldn't leave their dishes in the sink. They wouldn't tell you they're going to be there for dinner and then not show up. I think those kinds of framings can help give a new template for how we think about where we are now.

[Kim Holderness]

It's just there's no one way to do it, is what I'm hearing. And then we just have to keep that open dialogue. Is there sort of. You do such a good job of like a script, a sentence. Oh, a thing to say so that when we approach this, it's not off putting. And it's not, you know, we're not accusing her of something. It's just like, hey, we're all adults here now.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I think there is. I think it's something like, we're so excited to have you home and we are feeling our way. You're feeling your way, we're feeling our way through what it, what our relationship looks like now and what it's like to live together. Now. You've lived independently, now you're home, you're not in high school anymore. But this is still our house. You know, I mean, I think saying all of those things. I think you don't even have to have an agenda beyond just saying those things. So just as, you know, as we. As we run into, you know, as we. As it hits a bump, let's just problem solve it together. Let's. Let's tackle it together. Sort of anticipating, Right. That you would. Had a plan for what you were going to make for dinner. And then she ate all the key ingredients. Right.

[Kim Holderness]

It's mostly pen, but yes, that kind of thing.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

And so you know it's going to happen. Right. Or you were pretty sure she understood that her grandparents were coming over at this particular time, and they were so excited to see her. And then, you know, 20 minutes before they're showing up, her friends are pulling up in the driveway to get her.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Like, this is gonna happen. Right? I think. I think if we frame it as, like, wait for it, there will be crossed wires, there will be dropped balls and then say, okay, this is the kind of thing we have to figure out.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

We have to figure out how to keep this from happening again. This is a new one for us.

[Pen Holderness]

We're getting some good nuggets here. We're getting the crossed wires and the drop. Wait for the cross wires. We're getting. We're getting. She's more like a roommate now. Like, there's some good nuggets in this.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

I would love if, like, if we got away from us for a second and zoomed out just to your practice and to people you've talked to who have gone through this. What are some of the most common issues that you see of, like, readjusting to family life after college?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

So, I mean, a lot of it is exacerbated by younger siblings.

[Pen Holderness]

Ah, yeah, right.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I mean, a lot of it is the college kid is like. I mean, in my house, it's interesting because I've always been really, really rigid about phones being in bedrooms. Like, to me, that is, like, you know, I'm relaxed about a lot of things, but that's a bright line. So my ninth grader is not allowed to have any tech in her room. My college senior comes home, she takes her tech in her room, and I'm allowing it. Like, she's had it in her room now for four years of college. Like, what am I gonna do? Yeah, I mean, like, it just seems ridiculous. And, you know, my ninth grader hasn't balked at this, but she certainly could, you know, and if she did I'd be like, well, when you come home from college, you could take your deck in your room. Like, we make different rules at different ages, right? So I. But I think that those kinds of things can happen. Or, like, they stay out till 3am right? And are you supposed to wait up? Or, like, I mean, what are you supposed to do with that? Right? So that piece is awkward. Or they bring home a partner.

[Kim Holderness]

Haven't crossed that bridge yet. But expect a text. Lisa.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah, okay, but, like, where does that kid sleep?

[Kim Holderness]

Right?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Right. If the kid is sleeping over. Right. I mean, like, all of this is super weird and super new and different.

[Kim Holderness]

I think it's. I. I think it just helps to know that it. It is weird for everybody.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yes, it is.

[Kim Holderness]

I think that's helpful to know. And what I also said, because I. I just, I felt it. She's become a night owl because she has later classes and she lives in a really fun city and she's getting everything done. So, like, you can't. Can't really process that. And there's a time change. So she comes home, she's sleeping later. And the first day I was like, oh, I expected high school Lola that got up at, you know, 7:00am and was out the door, going to, like, I have to readjust what that expectation is. And I told her I live far from where I grew up and far from my family. And I feel like the tension happens when you don't finish the conversation. And I just, like, just promise me we finish it, like, before you get back. Like, let's just make sure we're good in some way before you get back. And she's like, mom, I'm not gonna wake up any earlier. I'm exhausted. I'm like, sleep all day. But I was there. Let's just, let's. I'm just like, that's a me problem. And I'm letting it go.

[Pen Holderness]

Did you let it go?

[Kim Holderness]

It was to her. I did.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

To you.

[Pen Holderness]

I'm like, oh, my. Okay, good. Okay. That's because. That's a good distinction, though, because I've definitely heard a lot about this. While she likes.

[Kim Holderness]

It's different, it's different than what our house. How our house ran before.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny, I think about, like, I remember I did. It was like, very hard for me to get home from college. Like, I had to take like, a bus to a taxi to a train to a plane. That had to connect through. And I always remember going home at winter break, you know, after finals and after trying to celebrate with my friends. And after trying to pack up, up and get gifts and whatever. And I remember having this, like, very clear, like, daydream of, like, hoping that there'd be some, like, really nice lady next to me on the plane. And she'd be like, honey, you look tired. And I'd be like, let me tell you what the last month has been like. And then I could just, like, pour myself out. And so, like, I try to remember that when she's coming home that, like, I remember being really wrecked. And if you have you stayed in a college dorm lately, like, they're actually not, like, as nice as they are. They're still kind of camping.

[Kim Holderness]

It's all gross. Even the nicest ones are gross.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah. And so I think for them, like, their beds and the cleanliness and the good food and the whatever, like, they are, like, at that point, like, animal creatures who are just trying to cave and get comfort. And I do try to plug into how I felt, like, that daydream I had on the plane, like, just how. How much I wanted somebody just to be like, oh, honey, what you. You've been through. I mean, like, finals, whatever, but, like.

[Kim Holderness]

But finals at the time, like, finals are very, very stressful. So, like, I. So. So let her. Let her hibernate. Let her hibernate. Don't smother. Don't wait at her door trying to watch Gilmore Girls.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I'm just gonna.

[Pen Holderness]

You're doing great. You're doing great, honey.

[Kim Holderness]

Back up.

[Pen Holderness]

You're doing great.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Oh, and you can have expectations. I think there's a lot to be said for, hey, here's where we need you. We're going to be going to church at this time, or we're going to be having friends over who are dying to see you at this time. There are some parts where we need to be on your calendar. Can we make this work? I think being very explicit about that is fair. I think saying, if you're not joining us for dinner, you need to tell us, otherwise, I'm going to make enough for you. I think those kinds of things go a really long way, as opposed to just making a song assumptions.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. And then again, zooming out. Thank the Lord this is not where we are. But there are a lot of kids. I've heard of that. I mean, I remember struggling that first semester. It is a doozy. I. I was probably in need of some professional help.

[Pen Holderness]

So, like, academic probation?

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, different. Your first semester?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, it was my first stint. My first stint in academic probation was my first semester.

[Kim Holderness]

So, yeah, how do you check in? What are some signs that you might need to step in and be a parent and get them some help?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

So, you know, we fully expect kids to kind of come home and be hibernating. I love that word, for a few days, just to recover. You know your kid. You know your kid. Right. If you feel like they're not bouncing back the way we would reasonably expect. Right. Or they seem very low, or they don't seem excited about going back, I think trust your gut and do say, how you doing? Is everything okay? I mean, I know questions of whether you have access to their grades is very individual, family to family. It's not a default. Kids have privacy in college. So that's its own kind of complex conversation for some families. But I think the reason it's so demanding that first semester of college is that change equals stress.

[Kim Holderness]

Right?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

That. That is just the formula. It is for most young people, as big a change as they've ever gone through in their lives. They give up everything that was familiar and they start all over. And so, of course they're exhausted. Of course they're exhausted. But the way to think about stress is that it's like strength training. Like, it's uncomfortable and it helps you grow with adequate recovery. So if your kid has had, like, a doozy of a semester because they've done all this change and they come home and they sleep for three days and they slowly start to emerge and they are recovering with adequate rest, that's growth and development. What we don't want is what looks like an injury. You know, how if you're injured from strength training, you actually don't get better fast. Two or three days out are not going to help you get better. So if you feel like this looks like the kind of rest that would normally restore you isn't doing it, that's when you want to start to pay attention.

[Kim Holderness]

We. We did a podcast where we ask, like, what is something in your 20s that you like, you couldn't pay you to redo? I was shocked when so many people said, I'm so glad I'll never have to drink. Like, the drinking in college was something they just like, they. They feel gross in hindsight from it because there's so much of it. Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah, there is. I think kids are doing more weed now. I think it's. It's replacing a little bit of the drinking, which I'm, like, not saying, like, so it's solved. You know, it's different a little bit, but there's still Plenty of drinking. You know, kids could also come home with tattoos or piercings or all sorts of things that you haven't seen or expected. You know, I mean, they're 18. They're not living with us anymore.

[Kim Holderness]

They are 18. So how do you, what is, like, are there questions about like substance abuse and maybe excessive, like, like, how do you check in with, with somebody about that? I mean, because they can say whatever they want.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

They can say whatever they want. I mean, you know, your kid, I mean, I think you could say, like, what's the scene? Like, what's it like? You know, like now that you've been there for a semester? Like, what's, like, who's doing what? How, you know, how wild is it? Does it feel unsafe? I think there's also a lot of kids who spend their first year kind of experimenting with that. And then they're like, okay, not for me, not for me. Not that great after all. I think, you know, it's sort of in the culture, it's a little bit like, like portrayed as, like what it means to be in college as a, you know, go buck wild and all that. And I think it's pretty compelling. And I remember actually I'm not alcohol and my body are not friends. Like, I just, I feel terrible when I drink. And I remember getting to college and being like, when am I going to be like into this? And I was like, oh, I've already aged past it. I was never going to do it, you know, but I felt kind of dorky. I felt behind. I felt sort of left out until I realized I was like, oh, yeah, no, that was never going to be for me.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, okay. Well, that would be great if a lot of college kids have that same realization.

[Pen Holderness]

Well, and it's more, it's better now than it used to be. There's a lot more, there's a lot more sober, curious people. And to her point about weed is a good point, it's actually like in some ways better for your body.

[Kim Holderness]

I don't, I. Let's not say that I think the.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Brain questions are as worrisome as they've ever been. And the weed they're smoking is so potent that we like our models.

[Kim Holderness]

Sure.

[Pen Holderness]

Good example.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

It's not great.

[Kim Holderness]

It's not great. Yeah. Like I said, in some ways I wouldn't be like, yay, my kids are switched over.

[Pen Holderness]

None of it's, none of it's a good long term plan for binging.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, yeah. No, no, no.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

But I think, you know what we want to see is a healthy relationship with substances. And, like, of course, none of them are 21 until later in college. But, like, we don't want it making their lives worse. We don't want it interfering with their functioning. We don't want it having them do things that they regret. Like, that's when to. You can have a relationship with substances. Right? That is. That is actually fine. If not makes your life nicer, like a great glass of wine or, you know, enjoying that. Like, fine. It's the health of the relationship. I also think. And we cannot talk about substances without talking about fentanyl. I don't know what you guys did in this. I sent my kid to college with Narcan.

[Kim Holderness]

We did, too.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I think that is a done deal. I think you don't even, like, blink about it. Like, I think, you know, it's scary. It's terrifying. But thank God for a Narcan, right? I mean, it's the one thing that lets us sleep at night.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. I. So I put that in, like, the med kits, but then I was sort of laughing. I'm like, okay, let's say she's at a party, and then she, like, wait, running back to the dorm to.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I'm like, yeah, I think all colleges should have them on every wall in a glass box. Like, that, to me, feels.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, 100%. 100%. Okay. But let's. Let's leave this conversation with some hope that, like, this can be a really great relationship. Like, transitioning from parenting teens to young adult can be amazing, right?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

No, they get so interesting. They get so. I mean, they are interesting. You know how I feel about teenagers. Right? Like, and then it just, like, goes up from there. Right? So, you know, I have a daughter who's, like, three years ahead of your daughter. It's so fun. She's a painter. She is an artist. And as sort of a side hustle, she's actually, you know, pursuing other things academically. But she's actually stayed with painting in college, and we would. She was just home, and her younger sister had a birthday, and her younger sister wanted to go to. I think it's called Color Me Mine. It's like the pottery place.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

And I watched my older daughter make this, like, unbelievable item. Like, she made a bowl that's gonna look like a watermelon. I mean, it's like, the skill she was bringing to it and the. Like, I was like, wow, where did you come from?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Who are you? Like, I can't wait to pick up this finished piece. You Know, so that. And just they also. This is amazing to me. Like, they grow up with friends there, right? Like, I've always been obsessed with my kids friends. Like, I'm almost like the dog you have to put in the, like, you know, like, behind the gate when the teenagers come. And now the college friends. I mean, these people are amazing, and they are brilliant and wonderful. And then they're high school friends also growing and developing through college. I'm like, what's going on with this person? What's going, like, and, like, are they gonna stop by and can I come say hi? Like, I mean, it's. It's not just your kid who's growing, but it's like their whole cohort who are fantastic people, and then they're bringing new kids in. Like, I mean, when my kid brings a friend home from college, like, I'm like. I'm like, really? Like a dog that needs to be kept behind a gate. So excited.

[Kim Holderness]

I have to. I have to say, one of the things I was sort of mourning in August, September is like. Like, she has this really lovely group of high school friends. Like, I wasn't gonna see them or hear about them through her now.

[Pen Holderness]

You saw them?

[Kim Holderness]

Well, I keep in touch with their moms. And so we're, you know, we're seeing. We are seeing. But I was like, oh, my God, I missed. How's Jaden doing? How's Grace doing? Tell me about everything.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

No, but we.

[Pen Holderness]

We did this thing where they came over to our house the night before Thanksgiving, and like, every time someone showed up, I thought someone had been murdered in our backyard because of the screaming. Yeah, exactly what you just did right there.

[Kim Holderness]

I was doing that too, though. It was like. I was like, oh, you got MIA.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Like, yeah, no, it's like, the best, right? So, I mean, I think it's that, you know, the thrill of them becoming right, and really, like, discovering, like, who they are and what they're into. And, you know, it's just an amazing. Like, they're so much better than we are. They're so much better than we ever were. I mean, they are just. It's so neat.

[Kim Holderness]

It is so neat. And I'm in that just seeing. And I hear you because my daughter's also just side hustle artist. And, like, how you're a whole ass different person than I am. Like, what? That is so shocking to me that you have that skill. Because I can't draw a sticks person. I'm like, you are like a diff. You're a whole person.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. And, like, I now ask her for guidance on stuff. I'm like, okay, what do you think I should do? Like, I was actually working on my little piece of pottery. I'm like, do you think I should keep going? She's like, no, stop, stop. You know, like, I mean, but to have, you know, someone who's like, approaching adulthood, who you can actually consult, you know, meaningfully for things is a really wonderful, wonderful thing.

[Pen Holderness]

Like as. As one of the lab rats, which it's. It's so crazy hearing you the. Our kind of North Star when it comes to this, like, having gone through this. Right. What's your dull moment like now that you're done, that you wish you had done differently?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I have to think on that. Like, we've. We're pretty. We're pretty forthright with each other.

[Pen Holderness]

That's good.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

But, you know, there was. There's the piece around. Like, shifting plans is hard. Like, I'm not a big shifting plans person. Like, I kind of like things the way, you know, they're going to be. And so, you know, sort of adapting to, like, we go to the JCC here. It's like this fantastic JCC here in Cleveland. And, you know, often my college daughter would be like, yeah, I'm going with you in the morning. Right. And then I would wake up and at 11:30 there'd be a text. I won't be going with you. Right. Like, you know, so those kinds of things. Like, you know, we, we grew into that kind of communication.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

You know, as opposed to me being like, where are you? Are you coming or you're not coming? Like, what's the deal? Right? So I think.

[Pen Holderness]

Did you take it personally?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

No, no. You know, and. But I, I think there just were times where she had one idea about how the day was going to go and I had another idea and we didn't communicate all that well. And then I was annoyed and she was annoyed. You know, I think that that was different. The other thing, and I think, or I wish we'd done that differently, right. Like, over time, we worked our way towards something good. The other thing that I also found started to be important when she was a senior in high school and has continued to be important as she's older, is if I have a whole bunch of stuff I want to talk about or say, not trying to just catch her to do it, because they're usually like, they're already out, they're doing something else and like the sneak attack and they're and you could push back on this. But I think like, at some point you, you do just say like, when is a good time, right? Like you get yourself on your kid's schedule, right? You sort of in that kind of like, you know, good roommate quality, right? You don't like, oh, there you are. Here's the 40 things I've been thinking about, right? Like nobody wants that, right? So saying like, there's some stuff we gotta sort out or I got some questions about your schedule. Like, is now good or is there a time later? Like, what's a good time later? Like, I think taking the time to do that is worth.

[Kim Holderness]

I totally agree. Because first of all, if you wait for a right time, there's never a right time. No, you'll never sneak attack that in a good way. But then everybody's totally prepared to the point where Dr. Lisa I started when we were visiting, like we went to visit her and then, you know, she's been home. I came up with this, I kept it on my notes app. Just a list of questions. And she has loved it. She's like, ooh, do you have more questions? Because some of them are, some of them are like, oh, in an emergency, if we weren't available, say you were hit by a car, who would you like, who's the person you call, like, who's, who's of your. And you get to know more about their friends. But then some of them are also like, hey, we have this thing on Wednesday. Are you coming? Like, so I just have a notes app and some fun questions and then some just like, we need to talk business.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I have a question for you guys. This is one I think is a fascinating one. Do you track her location at college?

[Kim Holderness]

More on this after these words.

[Pen Holderness]

Kim, as you know, I'm on a health kick right now. I'm trying to be proactive about aging and staving off Alzheimer's.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes. And I love being on this journey with you, babe.

[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

Tell me more.

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

Holderness Masterclass.com holder holderness all right Pen, the holidays are here and I'm finding myself caught up in the same pattern.

[Pen Holderness]

Pattern? What, like. Like plaid or gingham? Like houndstooth?

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

This is a tough one.

[Pen Holderness]

I do not.

[Kim Holderness]

He does not. He does not. Okay, I. Her first month at college, my favorite show was watching Lola's dot move across campus. I'm like, oh, my favorite shoes on. Like, she's. I had her schedule down. I knew where she was gonna be.

[Pen Holderness]

And then also like it was her Snapchat had like a fun, kind of cute emoji emoji of her. And you were like, oh, look, she's got a cowgirl hat on or something like that.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So then I, yeah. And so you talked about like, do you wait up for her? So in the very beginning, she's out in this like kind of a larger city and going out to place. Like she's with a group of friends. Sure. But I was very worried about her. Like, is she making it home? Not realistic for me to wait up. But that first week I was like checking her dot to make sure got home at when I would wake up at three in the morning. And then that was not serving. That was me problem and that was not serving me because I was losing sleep. So I stop tracking her at like 4, I would say. And then now it's like I'll wake up in the morning and be like, okay, she's in her dorm and she's. Or she. So occasionally I would say like once I check in with her a day, like just seeing and it's Snapchat so I can like, like message her. But he has no idea. Well, hang on in the best possible way.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, I just, I want to throw something out here and this is a, this is just. You don't do adults, but I'm going to give you some adults here. Real. She is, she's very caring and very empathetic and she feels her daughter in ways that I don't feel. And I think that's some of the reasoning why she's doing this. But there has to be some yin and yang here, I think. So I have, I think, necessarily become more of the laissez faire parent because she's got the other part covered.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

And it's not that I don't love her and care about her and want to know where she is, but I think if there's too much of that, it's going to be. It's, it's gonna be rough. Right. And so it's, it's not that I don't want to know what she is. There's the other part also, that I just, I do what you do. And I try to put myself back in college and remember stuff. Like, I didn't. My parents didn't know what I looked like for, like, two months. They didn't know where I was. They didn't. They didn't know my voice. Like, they may have heard my voice, but, like, there was no cell phone cameras. And look at my outfits. Like, I don't think I did laundry for the first month. And I just wore the same shirts over and over again. They didn't care.

[Kim Holderness]

And we would not have been a match.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

In college, I had a friend who just would wear his underwear inside out. That was his solution to doing laundry.

[Pen Holderness]

Sure. Or, like, bathing suits. There's all kinds of ways to get around it. But, like, in, in the end, the world that we live in now, there are so many more touch points. And I don't know if that's infringing occasionally on the freedom that we should be allowing our kids when they're in college.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I think it's a. I think this is a little bit tough. I, I, and I feel this very deeply. I don't track my daughter. There's also a piece. College kids don't always sleep in their.

[Kim Holderness]

Rooms a hundred percent. And I think she doesn't have a boyfriend right now. So I'm like, I knew it's safe, but I totally wouldn't check after if she did get in a relationship with somebody, because I don't want to know.

[Pen Holderness]

You're saying on record, on record that you would not check.

[Kim Holderness]

I would not, because I don't want to know.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, no, I, I know that you don't want to know. I just know that you're gonna check.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

So, I mean, like, this is right, this, this is a tension we sit in. I have had a hard time. So my daughter goes to College in Manhattan, you know, so we put her on the plane.

[Pen Holderness]

It's a huge city.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah, it's a huge city. And it's hard, especially when they've just been home. Like, you have them under your wing and, you know, they're safe and close. That I, I now, when I as I'm talking this through with you, I need to institute with you something with her where I say, once you get to your dorm room, text me just to let me know you're there. Right. Because, you know, she gets back, she's with her friends. Like, she moves on. So maybe somebody in my house who maybe has a name a lot like mine, maybe asks her younger daughter, who does track her sister, to just give me a quick peek to see where.

[Kim Holderness]

You'Re tracking by proxy.

[Pen Holderness]

You're still, you're still tracking. Yes, yes.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

But, so it does. Okay, so I'm, it's shady. I know it's shady. Like, it's not good. But let me just say this. If there is the argument of like, but what if something's wrong? Like, what if something's wrong? I actually think the proxy question is not the worst question in the world. Right. Because I think, you know, sometimes roommates track each other. And so if your kid is like, stop tracking me. Like, stop. Which would be not bananas. Not bananas, not bananas. I think then a half step. And here this is a whole. All we're talking about are half steps is you say, if I'm not hearing from you and I am worried for your safety, who tracks you? That I can reach. Like something like that. Where. If I have a legitimate concern about where you are and I'm not hearing from you, I need a half step.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, I wonder about that. Yeah. And I think it's. Now it's interesting because I have a girlfriend. I mean, I'm almost 50, she's in late 40s, and she shares her location with all of her friends. And because she's, you know, single and travels a ton and it's also just fun to know where she is, you know, and so I think with the young people with Snapchat, they do, they share their location with everybody. So it's sort of a normal thing. But I will say what sort of. I. My check ins on her location have severely gone down throughout the semester. I think I, I'm like, I am more of like a once a day. And what changed me was that accident she was in, like, when she got hit. Because first of all, she was fine. And second of all, there was nothing I could Do.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Well, that's the thing.

[Kim Holderness]

There was nothing I could do.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

This is when, you know, tracking high schoolers is a whole other thing. And I'm like, well, whatever else, do not let it confuse the question of who keeps that kid safe, because there is nothing you can do. I think sometimes people, I do this for safety.

[Kim Holderness]

What are you gonna do?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

What are you gonna do? Right. And I do see an argument for it. And this is why I'm shady. And, you know, you recruit my ninth grader, like, like, I just need to know she's safe. Right. I just need, you know, like. And so coming up with a system that allows for that.

[Kim Holderness]

So somebody has eyes on her.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah, yeah. If you're really worried, like, is there somebody who could tell you where she is? But you have to get really worried.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, you have to get really worried.

[Pen Holderness]

All right, so I want to end this by saying that Dr. Lisa is superhuman. She is, she is. She is the. She is the example I give people all the time when they're like, what do I do when it comes back in? Like, ask Dr. Lisa go. Like, go like, she's even as a podcast, amazing book. She's got a podcast. She's got like a really cool AI that's not like a shady AI. It actually is all of her work in one place. I'm trying to let people know where to find you in an organic way. She is the best in the world at this. So I love it when she comes onto our podcast and says she's shady af because I love the human side of her even more. And it's like, I think that I'm hoping people get a chance to see this and say, wow, there is an actual feeling, loving, caring, imperfect human being who is behind all of this. Amazing. So thank you for joining.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Very imperfect. Very imperfect. I just love you guys so much. Okay, so people should go to my website and people should make good use. I am putting so much time and work and I love doing it into all this free stuff I want people to know about. So you mentioned Rosalie, whose name came from my then 13 year old daughter, AI powered librarian, can answer questions 24 7.

[Kim Holderness]

I've super used it. I'm like, on your website, but it's just your stuff. It's just your stuff.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

It's just based on my work only. And then she'll send you to her source materials. Like we covered it in this podcast. This, you know, like she sends you there. I have the Ask Lisa podcast comes out every week where we take questions from listeners about Raising tweens and teens. And I have a newsletter. I don't. Do you guys get my newsletter?

[Kim Holderness]

I do. Okay.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I put about 10 hours a week of work into that. Like, I really, like guys work really hard on it. And what I do is I pivot off of the previous week's podcast into like a bulleted like, boom, boom, boom. Here's what you need to know on these topics to make it really accessible. But it's like writing that I really like. It's like a good writing practice for me every week and it's free and it comes right to your inbox. So that's all there. And it's just. I just want people to use it.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. And what's next on the horizon for you?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Oh, honestly, can I tell you something bananas that I can't believe I get to do? Like, not bananas isn't even right the word. Okay. So I've worked for UNICEF for a long time now. I create a lot of parenting content for them. And the head of global advocacy is this incredible guy named Benjamin Perks, who is the most interesting human being I've ever met. He. He was raised between the streets of London and an orphanage and he has risen to become the head of global advocacy for unicef. And this guy is unbelievable. I adore him. And he has really set his mind to the idea that, you know, UNICEF brought vaccines to the world. They helped make that happen. He is now wanting to bring prevention of childhood trauma and high quality parenting to the world.

[Kim Holderness]

Ah, love this.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah, that's like. He's like, this is the next thing we're doing. This is the next big initiative he has pulled together with a huge team. He would be the first to say, like, no, no, no, it's not me, it's everybody. In January, it's the inaugural Global Parent Caregiver Caregiver Summit. The inaugural Global Caregiver Summit. It is in Madrid. It is hosted by the Queen of Spain. It has a whole bunch of ministers of state and like philanthropy. I'll send you all the stuff, like civil whatever, to come together to co construct agreements about how countries will work to protect the early mental health and attachment relationships and safety of children. And I'm one of the keynotes. It's me and Nadine Burke Harris, who's this brilliant, fabulous pediatrician who has done incredible work on early childhood trauma prevention. And so I'm going to Spain in.

[Kim Holderness]

That's so cool.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Is that wild?

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, my gosh. What are you going to wear?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

That's the question. Skirt suit? I Don't own a skirt suit. Like, so I. I was like. That was like, that's a major. I am picking up my skirt suit from Brooks Brothers tomorrow.

[Pen Holderness]

I knew. I knew she was thinking about this.

[Kim Holderness]

You're like, PC, I don't even need warning. I could talk for 45 minutes. Got it. But what am I gonna wear?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I don't own that. And I can't be anywhere near the queen of Spain if I'm not in a skirt suit. So. Yeah. Navy blue.

[Kim Holderness]

Navy blue.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Trying to figure out the shirt.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, no, I think the one you're. The one you're wearing is great, but I know you'll probably want something new. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I love that color. It looks really good on you.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah, I'll send you guys the link to it. I. I'm. I'm. I'm just.

[Pen Holderness]

We're gonna want your fit check right before you talk. Yes.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I'm gonna be like, all right, I'm gonna wear glasses.

[Kim Holderness]

It looks hard. Very professional. But also, I love that parenting is getting this priority, because I think that there is. I mean, I'm not gonna just throw a specific generation under the bus, but baby boomers. But they. There was this sort of, like, rub some dirt on it, sort of. And that's all they knew. And it's not their fault, because that's what they were told. So I love that there's a priority on parenting, really.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Supporting early attachment, keeping kids safe, reducing trauma. Like, you know, it's big stuff, it's heavy stuff.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

But governments have levers that they can pull to help bring some of these things about. So. So I have the best job in the world. I get to be with you. I get to put on a skirt suit and try to be helpful at, you know, preventing childhood trauma worldwide. You know, it's a big job. It's an extraordinary team. Unicef, World Health Organization, all of these organizations have come together for this, so. So I'm excited about it.

[Kim Holderness]

I am so excited for you.

[Pen Holderness]

Thank you again, as always, for your time and for your friendship and for everything.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Same back at you.

[Kim Holderness]

You're the best. Love, Dr. Lisa.

[Pen Holderness]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

I just. You know, I've told you, I just want to have her read the phone book to me. And I'm just going to just put it. My headphones in and just, like, listen to her, because my blood pressure just comes down.

[Pen Holderness]

This is why she needs a, like, an AI version of herself, which she has that now. If we can just get it to talk like her.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Like Rosalie, if we could do that. Then there's going to be.

[Kim Holderness]

Just read her articles to us.

[Pen Holderness]

But also there'd be, like, ASMR freaks who will, like, just log on and listen to her for hours, because she definitely has asmr.

[Kim Holderness]

Like, oh, okay.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

This is my favorite part of the podcast, where pen reveals pens turns into a chicken nugget.

[Pen Holderness]

That's right. I'm a chicken nugget now.

[Kim Holderness]

We're waiting for the nugget sponsorships to come through. Still crickets. If you know anybody in the nugget game, just let us know.

[Pen Holderness]

Guys, this is Pen's three piece nuggets. We don't need more than three. Any more than three. I don't know if it's healthy. Three is the perfect amount of nuggets. And this is what I tell you. The three nuggets that I got from our interview that I think maybe I'll take away from this. I'll take other things, but I. If I take three things and I look like a chicken nugget, I think it's gonna really stick.

[Kim Holderness]

Right?

[Pen Holderness]

And maybe it'll stick for you guys as well, right?

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

All right, go. Boy, I sure could use some ranch dip.

[Kim Holderness]

No, don't make her put ranch dip on you.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Oh, no, Sam.

[Pen Holderness]

Nugget number one, when your kid comes back from college, they become a little bit more of a roommate and a little bit less of a kid. Like, and that is something that I. She heard. And something went off in my head and said, yeah, you know what? She is more of a roommate. And so for that reason, you treat him like a roommate and you have expectations like a roommate, right? Some common courtesy stuff. And probably just like a roommate, you start out walking on eggshells, and it's going to get better and better as it goes along.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Right?

[Pen Holderness]

That happens with roommates, too. Nugget number two, speaking of walking on eggshells, wires are going to get crossed and expect it. You can't avoid it. Wait for it. And when it gets there, try to handle it with superior communication.

[Kim Holderness]

Right?

[Pen Holderness]

Like, talk about it when it happens. I even noticed at one point when you and Lola, your wires got crossed. You guys talked about it. You didn't walk on eggshells. I think that's a great. Like a great example of something that went right when she was home. Nugget number three, celebrate the wonderful new person that you are welcoming in. I know. Like it? Yes. It can seem alien and strange, but remember, at the end, she's like, oh, my gosh, she's so interesting. She's like a whole new interesting person.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Pen Holderness]

And celebrate and understand, like, how lucky you are to have that. And that will maybe keep the narrative away from, like, why are they sleeping in until 11:30?

[Kim Holderness]

Which, by the way, isn't even like that late considering a time change of where she's coming. Yeah, but.

[Pen Holderness]

But that was part of the crossed. Like, that was part of the cross wires. That was part of the realizing it's more of a roommate. And then really good. This is a bonus nugget. They hibernate. They're here to hibernate. That was such a great. Sorry. It's a four piece nugs, guys.

[Kim Holderness]

Four piece nug.

[Pen Holderness]

Like, the way she was describing her college, I just like, I went back to it and I was like, oh, yeah. When I went home, I wanted to stay in my room a ton because it was so much nicer than where I was staying.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. All dorm, even the nicest dorms are gross.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

I don't care, like, correct me if I'm wrong, although there is a university here in North Carolina called like High Point University.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, it's country club.

[Kim Holderness]

And they. Yeah, they're. We got like a packet in the mail. And their dorm rooms looked like apartments looked like really fancy. So I think there's. There are people who have that. But that is not the college.

[Pen Holderness]

And that's an. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that is a newly renovated or at least a newer university. And so maybe there's hope in the future that their people are going to say, yeah, we're spending a good much money. Like, let's give them some space. So I do, I do like that.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Business model.

[Kim Holderness]

Business model. Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I'd rather.

[Kim Holderness]

I want them to pay professors really well and pay for research.

[Pen Holderness]

Can't you do all that and just.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I was thinking, like, if they're less comfortable in their dorm room, they spend more time in the library. Yeah. Don't want them to be comfortable in their dorm room.

[Pen Holderness]

So it's got to be a happy medium.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Pen Holderness]

But I think that's a good point, though.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. I think that I. My dorm room that I lived in at the University of Florida was. Shortly after I left, they knocked it down because it was infested with black mold. So there's like a. Let's not make it like a health issue. But it was so depressing. Just like the cinder block walls and everything. It was a. It was giving prison cell. So. Yeah, I did spend a lot of time out of the dorm.

[Pen Holderness]

We went to an alumni event for Lola's College to watch like a football game last weekend. And one of the alumnus was telling me about how they used to literally all gather in a room and hear the drawing of the lottery of where you were going. Oh, yeah, like the Hunger Games. Like, you all had to sit there and wait to see what your fate was. Or maybe more like Harry Potter and the Sorting happened. Hunger. Like, it felt. The way he was describing it, it.

[Kim Holderness]

Felt more like the hunger and incredibly inefficient.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Like what? Like out of like a. I was picturing just like rooms. They would pick your name and then you got to choose. So you would. They would pick your name and then you got. Because I. I met somebody who had a massive room, but they took a handicap accessible room. But they got. So I'm like, there's problems in the system anyway. That's not how they do it now.

[Pen Holderness]

That's right.

[Kim Holderness]

But she's like, I had like a. It was great. I had moon shower. It was. Yeah. I'm like, girl, you took the wrong road.

[Pen Holderness]

Can we. We can still say handicap.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Well, it's kind of hard because if you're talking about a person, you want to say person with a disability.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

But you can't say person with a disability. Accessible room.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Accessible parking instead of handicapped parking.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay. So that is.

[Kim Holderness]

So I. So how could I have said a handicap accessible room differently?

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I think it's just an accessible room.

[Kim Holderness]

An accessible room.

[Pen Holderness]

Let's keep this in. Because this is important, because it's happening quickly in the world.

[Kim Holderness]

No, no, we're learning. Okay. So if you have. So it's all. Okay. Access. It's about accessibility and making things more accessible to. Okay, got it.

[Pen Holderness]

Thanks, Google.

[Kim Holderness]

No, so but you wouldn't say. You don't say disabled.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

You. Because what you want to do is you don't want it to be the. The description, like, disabled person. It's a person.

[Kim Holderness]

Person with a disability. I like. Yeah.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Because it's your.

[Pen Holderness]

That's not.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

You're not defining them by their disability.

[Kim Holderness]

Right. It's just something they've got. Okay. I love this the more, you know.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

I just.

[Pen Holderness]

Because I want to do the best I can and I like. But I want the show to be like, hey, we're trying here and we want this to work out, but like, give us some grace because this is all stuff that we said for most of our lives that we're. That's currently changing.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Right. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. But I. We're doing better. Yeah. Okay, guys, this show. And I was just say guys, because there's gals and they's in them.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

I think we say y'. All.

[Pen Holderness]

That's what I've been. Hey, I've been pitching y' all for a long time. Southerners, y'.

[Kim Holderness]

All.

[Pen Holderness]

We get the job done.

[Kim Holderness]

The one time in history the south.

[Pen Holderness]

Is the only time we have sucked for most of it.

[Kim Holderness]

It.

[Pen Holderness]

But if we can give the world yaw y', all, y' all be inclusive. First of all, a lot of Southerners will be like, we don't want to give that to you, but if we did it, maybe our report guard.

[Kim Holderness]

Look at us. We. We got it. Still, the south still has a lot more to unravel. That's. This is small credit on our south shore eyes again.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, and it's understanding of other people in inclusivity. That's what I meant when I said the south shall rise again. We shall rise in respectability and inclusivity.

[Kim Holderness]

Read our credits there. Yosemite Sam Laugh Lines was.

[Pen Holderness]

I think I've already done Yosemite.

[Kim Holderness]

You've done it as your. Oh, you're. You could do as your Uncle Rusty.

[Pen Holderness]

They're all the same thing.

[Kim Holderness]

No, dude.

[Pen Holderness]

Laugh Lines is written and produced by Pim Pin.

[Kim Holderness]

This is his uncle holding us, Kim.

[Pen Holderness]

Holdness and Anne Marie Tapke with original music by Pin Holderness. It is filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by a cast. As always, we love to hear from you. We just love it. Please write us a letter on the Internet at podcast the Holdness family dot com. Or you can call our landline and leave us a voicemail at 323-364-3929 and we'll talk to you soon on the lifelines. We love you, P. See you next time.

[Kim Holderness]

Tell you how much this sounds like his uncle Rusty, who makes the peanut brittle.

[Pen Holderness]

He does.

[Kim Holderness]

And he has a YouTube video out about his peanut brittle. And we were like the first, second and third views of that. And it is. But it was to hear his voice. It was so great.

[Pen Holderness]

Yep.

[Kim Holderness]

All.

[Pen Holderness]

All peanut brittle is made with care and love, with the finest ingredients.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, bye.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, bye. This episode is brought to you by Gab.

[Kim Holderness]

It's that time of year again. The holidays are coming fast. And if your little kids are anything like mine were, that list is already getting pretty long.

[Pen Holderness]

Kim, let's be honest, some of the things on their list made us stop and think like a smartphone.

[Kim Holderness]

I remember when our kids were starting to show interest in smartphones. Hey, we love being on the Internet, but it didn't mean we wanted our little ones to have access to the Internet.

[Pen Holderness]

So that's why we were so relieved when we heard about Gab. Gab offers phones and watches made just for kids so no Internet, no social media and just the right features for their age.

[Kim Holderness]

Honestly, I think I need this as an adult. Kids want phones to feel independent and connected and I as parents we want to know they're safe. With Gab you can have both and protect them from the scary stuff.

[Pen Holderness]

With Gab's Tech in Steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time. From watches with GPS tracking for the youngest explorers to the perfect first phone with no Internet or social media to the teen phone with parent approved apps.

[Kim Holderness]

So get ready for a Christmas morning they'll never forget the one where they get their first phone. And really it's a gift for you too because these kids safe phones will give you peace of mind.

[Pen Holderness]

Visit gab.com holderness and use the code Holderness for a special holiday offer that's.

[Kim Holderness]

G-A-B-B.com Holderness Gab Tech and steps independence.

[Pen Holderness]

For them Peace of mind for you.

[Kim Holderness]

Make every holiday party shine with Whole Foods Market hosting.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Stock up on their wallet happy 365.

[Kim Holderness]

Brand with appetizers like walnut honey shrimp and breaded calamari.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Plus save now on crowd pleasing bone.

[Kim Holderness]

In spiral cut ham with no antibiotics ever for dessert.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Check out limited time treats like their holiday rum cake.

[Kim Holderness]

Yum.

[Dr. Lisa D'Amore]

Shop Whole Foods Market with so many ways to save on festive spreads all month long. Terms apply.

[Kim Holderness]

If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by.

[Pen Holderness]

Grainger for the ones who get it done. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.