Is It ADHD or Perimenopause?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness
Episode: Is It ADHD or Perimenopause?
Release Date: July 1, 2025

---

Overview

In the episode titled "Is It ADHD or Perimenopause?", hosts Kim and Penn Holderness delve into the intriguing overlap between ADHD symptoms and perimenopause experiences. Combining personal anecdotes, expert insights, and their trademark humor, they explore how these two distinct conditions can sometimes present similar challenges. The episode also features interactive segments, including their popular game show "ADHD or Perimenopause?" and listener-submitted advice, making it a comprehensive and engaging listen for anyone navigating these life stages.

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Main Discussion: ADHD vs. Perimenopause

Personal Stories and Experiences

Kim and Penn open up about their personal encounters with ADHD and perimenopause, highlighting how these experiences have shaped their understanding and management strategies.

• Penn shares:
  “I have to say, there's moments I'm just not handling it well. What about you?”
  (16:00)

• Kim responds:
  “The two things that I would preach are patience for the person who is receiving the neurodivergence and rewarding self-awareness.”
  (18:10)

Symptom Overlaps

The hosts discuss the overlapping symptoms of ADHD and perimenopause, such as brain fog, forgetfulness, and emotional dysregulation. They emphasize the importance of recognizing these similarities to better understand and support those experiencing them.

• Penn explains:
  “Brain fog is very common in ADHD and it's a hallmark perimenopause symptom because of the drop in estrogen.”
  (16:14)

• Kim adds:
  “There's even more similarities than people are aware, for sure.”
  (16:24)

Advice and Coping Strategies

Drawing from their discussions, Kim and Penn offer practical advice for managing the intertwined symptoms of ADHD and perimenopause:

• Penn advises:
  “Knowing that there is an end, and that these instincts and rage moments are just a phase.”
  (16:33)

• Kim recommends:
  “Patience and self-awareness on both sides can make navigating these challenges much more manageable.”
  (18:48)

---

Fun Segments: "ADHD or Perimenopause?" Game Show

In a lighthearted twist, Kim and Penn engage in their game show segment "ADHD or Perimenopause?", where they answer humorous and relatable scenarios to determine which condition is responsible.

• Scenario Example:
  “You walk into a room and instantly forget why you're there.”

  • Kim: “Failing. Hormones and dopamine are on strike.”
    (23:18)

• Another Scenario:
  “You hyper focus for six hours on reorganizing your spice rack, but forgot to eat lunch?”

  • Penn: “That's ADHD.”
    (24:17)

This segment not only entertains but also reinforces the similarities and differences between ADHD and perimenopause symptoms.

---

Listener Advice and Recommendations

The episode features a segment where listeners share their unique advice for managing ADHD and perimenopause.

• Listener Wally from Minnesota shares:
  “You either have a great time or a great story. And when you're really fortunate, you have both.”
  (27:18)

• Listener Sally from North Carolina suggests:
  “When your mind is super active, especially right before you go to sleep, take a deep breath, sigh it out through your mouth, and then say to yourself, 'I wonder what my next thought is going to be.'”
  (27:35)

These contributions provide a variety of strategies that listeners can incorporate into their daily lives.

---

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Kim and Penn wrap up the episode by reiterating the importance of understanding the overlap between ADHD and perimenopause. They encourage patience, self-awareness, and open communication as essential tools for managing the challenges associated with both conditions. The episode underscores the value of community and shared experiences in navigating the complexities of aging and neurodivergence.

Notable Quote to End With:

• Kim: “Adults are a little bit further along when it comes to self-awareness, and it's just a much more friendly way to get through life.”
  (19:03)

---

Stay Connected:
Listeners are invited to share their thoughts, questions, and personal stories by leaving a voicemail at 323-364-3929 or writing to [e-mail]. Join Kim and Penn on their journey to "aging better together" with laughter and understanding.

Transcript

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

Who is up? Tell me in the comments for 4pm.

[Kim Holderness]

Dance party so you're getting ready to go to the dance club at 2pm?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, what else am I doing?

[Kim Holderness]

I don't know. Yeah, we get older every day. Got more wrinkles. That's okay. Yeah, we're laughing. When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we we got.

[Pen Holderness]

Hey everybody, I'm Kim Holderness.

[Kim Holderness]

And I'm Ben Holderness. Welcome to Laugh Lines.

[Pen Holderness]

If you think that the very best music is played at the grocery store, then this is your podcast.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes, it is.

[Pen Holderness]

You are home.

[Kim Holderness]

It is getting more like right down our alley from college.

[Pen Holderness]

Better yet, there's like some salt and pepper. There was like push it at the Harris Teeter and of course I was like, I wasn't even trying not to dance. I was like really busting it out. But I was thinking that is push it appropriate. Let's go with it.

[Kim Holderness]

100. What are you doing in a grocery store?

[Pen Holderness]

You are pushing it.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, okay. Yeah, they were really leaning in. Sorry, I just didn't even get it.

[Kim Holderness]

They're better pushing real good.

[Pen Holderness]

Is there it. Is it somebody's job to come up with a playlist at stores like that? Because that's a pretty cool job.

[Kim Holderness]

Is that a job that you'd like to have?

[Pen Holderness]

Maybe.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Anyway, yeah, friends, big day today. We are talking about Oprah. Just very casually going to talk about it.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm sorry, I think you said the name wrong.

[Pen Holderness]

How would you say it?

[Kim Holderness]

Oprah. You can't just say Oprah.

[Pen Holderness]

We have some just general advice. You guys asked questions about ADHD perimenopause. Doesn't that sound amazing? I promise it'll be fun. And stay tuned. At the end of the show, we have our fun segments that I love so much about what Gen Zers are saying. We got a new one this week at the dinner table. And are we done with. And this week, are we done with clubs? The answer might shock you. So stay tuned. Friends, by the time you see this, okay, There'll have been a gap between posting. I get that. But this has been our first opportunity to talk about our conversation with Oprah Winfrey. I know you'll recognize Internet stars and Kim and Pin Holderness. They won the Amazing Race on cbs and their song parodies have billions of views. So I will say this. We were guests on her podcast. Was not on my bingo card to talk to Oprah about perimenopause. We got the initial email and it came to Ann Marie, our producer, and we thought it was a scam. They said, hey, we know the Holderness family videos and we know you guys talk about perimenopause. We're doing a podcast on perimenopause. Would you guys want to come on as guests? Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. I. First of all, just real quick, you guys, like, you need. Do you need me? Like, that was. I was very confused when I called like this. This could. Should be you. I. I don't have.

[Pen Holderness]

Or you probably won't ever have it.

[Kim Holderness]

Won't. Probably won't ever have perimenopause. But they wanted to talk about what men can do, how much better they can understand it. And so I was, like, honored. And talk about bingo card. Definitely didn't have it on my bingo card that I was gonna be talking to Oprah about perimenopause.

[Pen Holderness]

So my darling husband, who's been very understanding through this process, he said, like, why don't we just call that person Perry? It's Perry's fault. So. So we just decided, like, if I was in a rage, he's like, well, Perry maybe is gonna leave soon, so let's just stick it out. So, yes, we created a whole entire character on our platform called Perry for Perry. Mad Pox. First of all, I will say there was very popular scam going on that you. That creators get emailed. And we've been emailed so many times, like Chelsea Ham, Chelsea Hand. Or in the. The Dirty Jobs got micro. And we were so excited. We were like, oh, my gosh. But then if you read very closely what they want is your account information so they could hack your account, and some people have been hacked doing it. So we thought, obviously, obviously, this is a scam. So Anne Marie. Anne Marie. Anne Marie's here.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, we should jump in and like, this is a good idea to talk about this because Marie has. Has been the one who taught us about these scams. And then, like, you did some vetting. I don't. Like, didn't you, like, look up some, like, find out the person who sent you the email? Like, let's make sure this person has a job.

[Pen Holderness]

Have no idea. I was in the CIA part time. I know the home value. I know their history. I know if they renewed their car tags. I know everything.

[Producer/Ann Marie]

I don't know why, like, the FBI CIA doesn't just hire more social media super sleuths.

[Pen Holderness]

Because serious vetting. I was so nervous to bring you the opportunity because I was like, I.

[Producer/Ann Marie]

Don'T want to lose my job.

[Kim Holderness]

Well, you wouldn't lose your job. You would just. We would get really excited and then it would be like. There was like. We were. You know whose podcast we were on one times. Kate Hudson's brother.

[Pen Holderness]

But that was great. He was a nice guy. She was filming a movie.

[Kim Holderness]

She was unavailable.

[Pen Holderness]

She normally is there, but not that down that day. But so we. We were sort of joking because that's totally fine. And like, what a. What a privilege to be interviewed by Kate Hudson's brother. But that was. That was a huge privilege.

[Kim Holderness]

He was a great.

[Pen Holderness]

He was great. He was. He was so great. So Oprah, we were like, this brother. We're like, this is definitely not gonna be like Oprah. And so we had the pre call with the producer was definitely Oprah. It was an episode about menopause perimenopause. But how they do it's over. Zoom. I definitely was willing to fly at my own Expense to go hang out with her. But they said, slow your roll.

[Kim Holderness]

It looked like a beautiful place where she was anyway.

[Pen Holderness]

It's stunning. So we were basically the equivalent of an audience guest. Right? Like how she used to talk to the audience members.

[Kim Holderness]

We were like an audience.

[Pen Holderness]

Plus, like, they played some of our videos, so it was like a 10 minute bit. So that was pretty significant. But you're sitting on zoom and you have to log in kind of early. So we see, like, all the setup, all the stuff. And the producer did say, hang out after your segment. Sometimes Ms. Winfrey will come back and say, hey, well, what do you think about that, Pen? Although the chances are sort of slim. Like, hey, we'll take any. We'll take our chances to talk to Oprah. So after our segment, we just were sort of hanging out for, like, another 20 minutes, and the producers are like, you guys can go now. And we're like, are you sure? You sure you don't want to talk to us anymore? And we were like, okay. I mean, just call us if you need anything.

[Kim Holderness]

We're good.

[Pen Holderness]

No, we're good. You guys are. You guys are good. She was lovely. I mean, you made her giggle, Pen. I don't think she would remember us, like, if we actually met one time, but I think it's a cool story to tell at cocktail parties that you.

[Kim Holderness]

Hear her saying kim, comma. I don't know what it is. Most people, if they say your name, it's not like a big deal.

[Pen Holderness]

But she said, pen.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. So Oprah was like, pen, talk to me. Pen, what advice do you have, Pen? I'm like, this feels different. I don't normally feel this way when someone just says my name, but Oprah just said my name, and it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? I liked it. Yeah, I liked it. And then she laughed. And I mean, that's. I love it when you laugh. There's nothing that I love more than when you make me laugh. There's. There isn't.

[Pen Holderness]

Like, except for maybe.

[Kim Holderness]

Maybe when Oprah laughs. Like, that might be the one fair. And Dr. Malone, who was the show with her, is. She's awesome. Like, I actually met her very briefly, and that was one of the stories that we told in the podcast. But she's another one of those people who's just like a rock star crusader for, like, women understanding their bodies, understanding the rights, and understanding what needs to be done for women not to feel overlooked and. And misunderstood by the medical community.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So that was, like, really cool being a part of that movement. Even though I'm a dude.

[Pen Holderness]

Well, we need.

[Kim Holderness]

So it was.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, it was dudes, so. Because we don't get invited into the rooms that you get invited into sometimes, so we need the dudes. Well, that was a really cool experience.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, it was.

[Pen Holderness]

And I think was not on our bingo card. It just means for 20. 26. I think we need to adjust the bingo card. Like, what.

[Kim Holderness]

What's our bingo card?

[Pen Holderness]

So I know you're not big on vision boards. Penn.

[Kim Holderness]

Me.

[Pen Holderness]

I love a vision board, but maybe your vision board. Your. Your is a bingo card. So there's just possibilities. Okay, so what would be on yours? I mean, we. We've reached the. Well, I won't say we've reached the top because we talked to Oprah, but it was over zoom. I think meeting her.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. Knowing that we started this sentence with I know you're not big on vision boards.

[Pen Holderness]

Let's do it anyway, so why don't you start? I would say I'm gonna put it out into the universe. I would love to meet Dolly Parton.

[Kim Holderness]

That would be awesome. Dolly's doing good, right?

[Pen Holderness]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. Like, I'm making sure.

[Pen Holderness]

I don't even talk about that.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm just making sure. Like, I love Dolly Parton. Like, she.

[Pen Holderness]

What would Dolly do? Is sort of my, like, life. She's very Jesus. Like.

[Kim Holderness]

Agreed.

[Pen Holderness]

So agreed. Yeah. What would Dolly do is how.

[Kim Holderness]

I. So meeting. Meeting Dolly Parton.

[Pen Holderness]

What about you?

[Kim Holderness]

Well, so if it's a bingo card, we need 24 plus a free space. Or we're just give.

[Pen Holderness]

Give me. Give me just, like, one.

[Kim Holderness]

I. I think I'd like to play basketball with LeBron James for an hour. Like, that's, like. That would be on my bingo card. Or to. Honestly, Oprah's great. Like, the Obamas is, like, the only that would go above that. Sorry if I'm being, like, political, but they're just my heroes.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Like, just to have the opportunity to.

[Pen Holderness]

Play basketball with Obama.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

And LeBron and abroad. Or play basketball and I bet, like, yeah, Obama's better than me at basketball now. I'm getting old and.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, Crusty. More on this after these words.

[Kim Holderness]

Are you looking for a new podcast for your kids? Maybe something to hold their attention on car trips?

[Pen Holderness]

We know there are a lot of kids podcasts out there, but we found something we think you're gonna love.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

Wild Interest. It is super well produced with original music, great sound design and a whole audio mission designed to calm and regulate kids.

[Pen Holderness]

You know, we talk a lot about ADHD in our podcast and one really important thing you can do to thrive with ADHD is is regulate your nervous system.

[Kim Holderness]

Absolutely. When people get dysregulated, even people without ADHD actually Kim, it can snowball and make regular life, well, difficult. Well, Wild Interest is actually designed to help regulate kids nervous systems. There's calm music and thoughtful subject matters and the vocal tone and cadence are all made with the same result in mind. Calm and happy kids.

[Pen Holderness]

Parents, Try the Wild Interest Podcast. You'll be hooked. And it's in its second season so there's tons of episodes to enjoy.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

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[Producer/Ann Marie]

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[Pen Holderness]

We got a an email. And the title of this email, I think, is going to make a hilarious video. We haven't shot it yet, but it sort of writes itself. The title of the email is Perimenopause and ADHD Walked into a Bar. And I just think the title needs to be a video. But this is from Andrea. Okay, I'm gonna read this.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

And this is where the advice part of this podcast starts.

[Kim Holderness]

Hang on, let me take this piece of paper off my iPad. Go ahead.

[Pen Holderness]

For those listening, we are still holding clipboards. Big talk on sponsorships, but we're not there yet. But once we get them, man, iPads are coming.

[Kim Holderness]

This is still kind of more on brand, though.

[Pen Holderness]

My husband is my ADHD person with the typical manifestations. Lost items, unfinished task, nothing put away, impulsive, blah, blah, bl. Until perimenopause joined the party, his ADHD behaviors were at most exasperating. Now that perimenopause has joined the party, we have one neurodivergency too many. Kim, how do you handle it when you walk through the house and see the aftermath of a person with adhd, and instead of being supportive, you lose your ish and pen. How do you handle it when Kim is having a rough hormonal day? Um, she. She goes on to talk a little bit about the struggles on that. First of all, again, ADHD and perimenopause walking into a bar. It's going to be a hilarious video. Stay tuned. But she asked a good question. Because so many of ADHD symptoms and perimenopause symptoms do overlap. We. Because we are who we are, and we've written a book about adhd, we've actually logged some of the similarities we have. ADHD is a spectrum. Perimenopause is different for everybody, but there's a lot of similarities.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, it's interesting because she wasn't really talking about her having trouble with executive functioning. She was talking about her emotional.

[Pen Holderness]

Her emotional part, which, by the way.

[Kim Holderness]

Happens in ADHD, too.

[Pen Holderness]

Right.

[Kim Holderness]

So there's even more similarities than people are aware, for sure. So what is your advice?

[Pen Holderness]

I thought about this for a long time, and I have no advice because it is such a wild, wild time. I think knowing and hoping that for us and our bodies, for the hormone, hormonally, it's a. It's a stage and it's a phase. And hopefully those instincts, like those rage moments, like I. I feel deep rage, I have to sort of like, stuff down in my soul sometimes I'm hoping that's just a phase. So knowing that there is an end, I hope to this. In some of the books I've read, you're actually. Your memory does improve and all these things will improve and can. There's hormone replacement therapy, there's different medications. There's lifestyle changes. The way I sort of am handling my own, like, I get mad at myself. Like the rage isn't always pointed to my family, is that it's a. It's a face. But I have to say, like, there's moments I'm just not handling it well. What about you?

[Kim Holderness]

Well, that was really good. I think, honestly, what you just said is close to what I'm going to say. And you didn't realize you were actually giving advice there, which was good advice. The two things that I would preach are patience for the person who is receiving the neurodivergence. That is me, you know, being patient and letting you get out whatever it is that you're thinking if you. Because that. Because a. An outburst can be a symptom. Right. So letting you get through it, preaching that. Preaching patience and rewarding self awareness.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

On both sides. So, like, really, if what you just did, if you're self aware enough and not ashamed, even though you sometimes are ashamed. Not ashamed to say, man, I'm sorry, I just kind of flew off the handle there. That's. That might be Perry. Yeah. Or me, like, oh, my gosh, I. I just got really overwhelmed and I redlined in my executive functioning and something fell through the cracks. Then it's the other person's, I would say, responsibility to say, man, well done. Like, I'm so glad that. That you said that. And sometimes when your patience, it allows that other person to get to that point.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

We're talking about adults in this situation.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Right. Adults are a little bit further along when it comes to self awareness. And. And I think it's not unreasonable to ask for it. And it's just. It's just a much more friendly way to get through life.

[Pen Holderness]

You were pretty anxious last night, just about a lot of stuff going on. And you were. You said.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

You said this was a night where I really could use a beer, but we're trying to really downshift on the alcohol intake. And so you were just pacing, and I said, you can have a beer. So instead you took the tiniest sip of vodka and then you poured it out.

[Kim Holderness]

And.

[Pen Holderness]

But you were just pacing, needing just your. Your executive function. You were redlining last night and. But you were very self aware and you were like sitting up, standing down, walking around the table. And I was like, I'm just gonna sit here.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, you waited. And I think I said something about it and then I went upstairs. That was a good example.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. But so if you guys are interested, I have literally cataloged where I think the similarities come because there have been moments and we. We were out, you know, talking about ADHD is awesome. We were on these tour stops and I. You would tell stories about your adhd and I wrote. And my whole contribution in that book was, I'm the person without adhd. I'm the person that lives with the person with adhd. And I'm supposed to be this, you know, alternative viewpoint, but there are things you talk about with adhd. I'm like, well, crap, I feel that too. Like, do I have adhd? I think you can dig back and realize, I didn't have these things as a child. It is perimenopause. But here's the things. Brain fog. It's very common in adhd and it's a hallmark perimenopause symptoms because of the drop in estrogen, forgetfulness. All of a sudden, I don't remember anything. And normally I could juggle all that stuff. And that's very common with adhd. Difficulty concentrating, obviously kind of premier ADHD symptoms. But I. I would be like typing a script and then forget the next thing I'm writing. So that's just something that I freaked out. Word retrieval. Okay. Apparently this is an ADHD symptom. But I. We've made, like, jokes about this. I couldn't remember the word for. I couldn't remember the word pothole. So I was trying.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm just laughing because, like, that's a very random. What was your guess for what it was? Because it's a hole in the street.

[Pen Holderness]

Like, street hole. I was typing a text to a friend who recently lost her job. She was asking advice. She's thinking about starting this podcast. She's smart, she's brilliant. It would be an amazing podcast. I said, let us help you. We've been down that road and we know where the potholes are, is what I was trying to say. Like, how to avoid the potholes. For the effing life of me, I couldn't remember. And I was like, it's not red flags. It's not bumps in the road. It's not. And I sat there And I almost went to ChatGPT to be like, what are the things in the road called? I had to change the format of my text. I had to say, you started over. I started over. Like, let us give you advice. I could not. And then an hour later, I'm like, ah, potholes. I got there, but I could not. I could not think of the word.

[Kim Holderness]

So I have had that before. It might be an everyone thing, though. Like, we can.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay. I didn't used to ever have that.

[Kim Holderness]

So when I was, like, 30, I was talking to Todd Lewis and we were.

[Pen Holderness]

You guys know Todd? Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

You guys know Todd, right? I was trying to say seahorse, and I don't know why I couldn't say it, because I've seen sea. It's the little horse in the sea. And I couldn't think of it. And I just said horse fish.

[Pen Holderness]

And it is a horse fish.

[Kim Holderness]

I thought that was good. And Todd, when I see him still, he's like, remember when you said horsefish?

[Pen Holderness]

So I thought it would be fun to have a little game show with the help of our producer, Sam and Amari. And the title of the game show.

[Kim Holderness]

Is it ADHD or perimenopause?

[Pen Holderness]

I. I think that, first of all, it's a podcast unto its own, but Sam is going to ask us some questions and then we are going to answer.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

ADHD or perimenopause?

[Sam]

Okay, first question.

[Kim Holderness]

Who. Wait, should you talk? Like, first question.

[Sam]

First question.

[Amari]

How to do.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, that's good.

[Pen Holderness]

So good. So good. So good.

[Sam]

You walk into a room and instantly forget why you're there.

[Pen Holderness]

Both.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes. So you're going to answer as perimenopause.

[Pen Holderness]

You're.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes. And obviously 100. Why did I come into this room?

[Sam]

That's correct. Failing. Hormones and dopamine are on strike.

[Kim Holderness]

Yep. That's right.

[Pen Holderness]

Yep.

[Kim Holderness]

I don't have enough dopamine and I.

[Pen Holderness]

Ain'T got enough hormones.

[Sam]

Second question. You burst into tears because you saw a puppy and you forgot almond milk at the store.

[Pen Holderness]

That's perimenopause right there.

[Kim Holderness]

Maybe a little bit ADHD too, with the. I mean, we do get emotional sometimes, but maybe not as much. Or I do. I get just inexplicably emotional sometimes. And someone explained to me it's because of my dysregulation.

[Pen Holderness]

So, yeah, I, I, it's so funny. I will cry at a puppy video on Instagram. But my daughter graduated and I was like, like ice in my veins. I was like, I. So something's wrong with me.

[Kim Holderness]

She's pushing.

[Pen Holderness]

I push it down. I'm pushing it down. It's fine.

[Sam]

The estrogen drop of perimenopause causes an emotional drop kick. Third question. You hyper focus for six hours on reorganizing your spice rack, but forgot to eat lunch?

[Pen Holderness]

That's adhd. Yeah, I never forget a meal.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Sam]

That'S the dopamine tunnel vision special.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm really digging Sam's voice.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, I will say. Penn was editing something the other day, and I came up. I was standing next to him for three minutes just waiting for him to break focus, and he didn't. So finally I tapped his shoulder and he screamed, and I was.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

He didn't even know I was physically standing next to him.

[Kim Holderness]

Was I recording? I think I was at him. I had my headphones on.

[Pen Holderness]

You. Oh, you definitely had your headphones on.

[Kim Holderness]

So I was doing an audio edit.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, yeah, that's what it was.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

But I was in your, like, peripheral vision.

[Sam]

You haven't slept through the night since 2019, and you don't know if it's hormones, your brain, or the crushing reality of the news.

[Pen Holderness]

I think it's all of the above. And I think I definitely. That's a perimenopause. I. Perimenopause. You just don't sleep.

[Kim Holderness]

I have trouble getting to sleep. And once I'm asleep, it's. It's all good.

[Sam]

You put your phone in the fridge and your yogurt in your purse.

[Pen Holderness]

I have to say, I would say, on the surface, that's adhd, but really, it's perimenopause, too. I've done some stupid stuff. I left my purse at the gym. Like, I. I had to go.

[Kim Holderness]

She said that, like, it was. That's, like a Tuesday for me.

[Pen Holderness]

I know, but I never. But I. I don't forget things. Places.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Pen Holderness]

And so I came home.

[Kim Holderness]

You were so bent out of shape about the fact that you left your purse at the time.

[Pen Holderness]

Because it's my purse. It's fine.

[Kim Holderness]

It's.

[Pen Holderness]

I've left.

[Kim Holderness]

You know how many places I've left my wallet?

[Pen Holderness]

My mahjong cards are in there. My wallet's in there.

[Kim Holderness]

What would you have been most upset about? Not being able to.

[Sam]

Not your credit card, not Your.

[Pen Holderness]

But the 2025 mahjong card had some errors in it, so I had to get little stickers to put over to make corrections. So I have a corrected mahjong card. 2025 mahjong card in my purse.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

And if somebody took that.

[Kim Holderness]

Wallets are replaceable. The 2025 corrected mahjong?

[Pen Holderness]

No, it would have been anyway, but I found my purse and nobody took it.

[Sam]

You tried to multitask and now you're standing in the kitchen holding a sponge, crying.

[Pen Holderness]

That's both.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, it is.

[Pen Holderness]

That's both.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, it is. Like, you know, you just hit on shame. Like you, you. You get to a situation where you even yourself realize how ridiculous and helpless you are, which sometimes happens, and it is overwhelming.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Thanks for playing our game.

[Pen Holderness]

Is it ADHD or perimenopause game show format? Here's the next turn in this wild and wonderful podcast. We asked you, we went to Instagram and I wanted to know. You've off. You've often asked us for some unqualified advice, but I wanted to know specifically, like, what's, like, the really weird life advice you have that actually works? So we're heading over to the Laugh Line. First up, this is Wally from Minnesota.

[Kim Holderness]

The best advice I've ever been given, which is simple but kind of weird. It helps me keep things in perspective. And it's a bit of a mantra. You either have a great time or a great story. And when you're really fortunate, you have both.

[Pen Holderness]

I love that. I love that.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Maybe you should use this next one from Sally. She's from North Carolina. She said, when your mind is super active, especially right before you go to sleep, take a deep breath, sigh it out through your mouth, and then say to yourself, I wonder what my next thought is going to be. Boom. And your mind clears and you fall straight to sleep. I think it's going to take that plus a lot of melatonin to get me to sleep, but I'm going to try that. I wonder what my next thought is going to be.

[Kim Holderness]

Exactly. So this is. I'm going to try it thing.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, it's.

[Kim Holderness]

I feel like this getting to sleep and curing the hiccups have 9 million possibilities and they're super subjective. But every once in a while, someone will say one that also works for you. So that's. But you should always, like, always worth trying. Let's go back to the laugh line. Melinda from Tampa, Florida. So if I have to get things.

[Producer/Ann Marie]

Done in the house, I purposely dress like a hobo so that I will.

[Pen Holderness]

Not go out and do other things.

[Producer/Ann Marie]

So I won't go shopping and I.

[Pen Holderness]

Won'T go run errands. I'll do exactly what I need to do inside my house because I look like a hobo. First, thank you for calling.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Pen Holderness]

Second, are we allowed to say hobo.

[Kim Holderness]

No.

[Sam]

The term hobo has become increasingly stigmatized and often considered offensive. Using homeless or unhoused.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, so this is what Melinda met. And then now we all know. I would say this is. She sounds like an extrovert. Because I could have a ball gown out and never want to leave the house. I struggle just. I don't need to ever leave the house. But for an extrovert, this is probably a really good tip.

[Kim Holderness]

No, I love it. It's a hack, right?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

That's a good life hack.

[Pen Holderness]

Ruth sent us an email. Another North Carolina listener. Treat your husband like you treat your dog. Honestly, there are times in this house when I feel a little guilty because my dog is being treated better than most of the other people. And you feel guilty and I feel guilty.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

So I, you know, rub your tummy and make sure you have food and water.

[Kim Holderness]

So make sure. Make sure you pet me, go on a walk with me, feed me.

[Pen Holderness]

And it goes both ways.

[Kim Holderness]

Your dog should treat you like your husband. You mean I should treat you like my dog. I got where that was.

[Pen Holderness]

Mitch sent us an email. I love this one. My dad always said you can't trust anyone who drives a PT Cruiser. Yeah. I have to say, I know one person with the. Drove a PT Cruiser. He seemed like a nice enough guy.

[Sam]

The PT Cruiser is currently not being manufactured and it stopped being in production in 2010.

[Kim Holderness]

So it'd be at least 15 years old.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Sam]

You also shouldn't be hanging out with people that have 15 year old.

[Pen Holderness]

Although your brother had a car that was.

[Kim Holderness]

He just sold it. It was 24 years old.

[Pen Holderness]

We got some really interesting dating advice.

[Producer/Ann Marie]

So here's the weirdest dating advice you'll get. So after a breakup, at go date.

[State Farm Representative]

Three people that you would never date. If you like tall people, go date somebody short.

[Producer/Ann Marie]

You like outgoing, Date somebody that's introverted. The thing is to break your patterns.

[Kim Holderness]

It works really well.

[Producer/Ann Marie]

Keeps you from getting stuck in the.

[State Farm Representative]

Same old, same old, same old, same old.

[Pen Holderness]

So same old, same old, same old, same old, same old.

[Kim Holderness]

That was very fun advice. Question. Does it count as breaking your pattern if it's three men in a row and they're all named Steve?

[Pen Holderness]

Because that was mine. Okay, here's the deal. I did not know it until looking back that I. I did probably have a type. And until you, it was tall guys who cheated on me was my type. If you could treat me like crap. I'm in love.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm all yours.

[Pen Holderness]

I'm. I am my heart is yours. So I did. After the last tall guy who cheated on me. Before I dated you, I dated three guys in a row named Steve, but they were all very different. I will have you know, they just.

[Kim Holderness]

Were all named Steve.

[Pen Holderness]

But they were all named Steve. So hey, it's a. You either have a great time or a great story. And I have gone back to the well and the Steve story. I have to say, it's a great story. And then I dated a tall guy. The next guy date was a tall guy who didn't cheat on me. See, I broke the pattern, found a nice guy.

[Kim Holderness]

I get this question all the time. Like, how did you end up with someone so impressive, beautiful, funny, smart as Kim? And she just answered the question. So, like, the baseline was really low, guys. You just, you just had to not cheat on her. And be tall.

[Pen Holderness]

And be tall.

[Kim Holderness]

And I have. Yeah. I can't tell you how zero times I have not ever, ever wanted to cheat on you. That's ridiculous. In fact, I look at those other people and think, what is what who hurt you?

[Pen Holderness]

Can I also. Let's just like reveal something I've never revealed. Oh, ready?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. That's what this podcast is for.

[Pen Holderness]

More on this after these words.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Producer/Ann Marie]

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[Pen Holderness]

This guy cheated on me with multiple people and so I was in my 20s and I found out about it obviously after, but one of the girls he cheated on me with also moved to New York to become a reporter. At the same time I was at a different network. I ran into her all the time. And I didn't know how to like she knew I knew and I knew she knew, but I didn't. But at this point, you and I were married and I was happy. I was so I was almost like thankful to her because if she had, she was like the last one and she told somebody to tell me in the whole thing. So because of her, I was able to offload that guy, date the three Steves, meet you. But I. And you guys see her on TV with some frequency. I do credit her with saving me from that awful experience. Is somebody you guys see on TV a lot. There are some clues I can give that would really narrow it down. Very specific. I had. I. I literally have no ill feeling about her because she saved me from this debag.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. So moving on. We did also, or Kim did put out a call to say if you do have any questions for us, we can try to ask them. And once again, this is totally unqualified advice. We have no medical degrees. We are lab rats. And this is from the experience that we've had with each other. So lakeisha asked, how do you avoid making your anxiety everyone else's problem? She said she feels like she stops the room when she panics. And obviously that's no bueno.

[Pen Holderness]

Wow, that's. You're being very self aware.

[Kim Holderness]

Lakeisha stop the room when I panic.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

That's a good start, right?

[Pen Holderness]

That's a good start.

[Kim Holderness]

Do you think she's saying that actively when it's happening?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. I mean, probably not.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

I have to say though, my sort of. When I spiral in anxiety, I remove myself. So. But, but everybody's different. So you might feel safer with people around, but. So I don't really have experience with that. I pull the ripcord and I will just leave. If it's my family, it's a party, it's a situation and I just leave. And I guess that probably does, you know, cause an issue at times.

[Kim Holderness]

I can observe some things that you do.

[Pen Holderness]

Please.

[Kim Holderness]

So you, you've worked on what is the, what's the cue? Like when, when I know it's coming? Like before the actual panic attack happens, you have like, you notice symptoms and things and you know it's coming and you know that this is. I hope I get this right. It doesn't, it doesn't just all of a sudden show up.

[Pen Holderness]

It.

[Kim Holderness]

You get a little bit of this and then, then it's there and then there's no stopping it. And for you it's a vibration. You are so good at when this happens, at finding me and saying, I'm starting to have a. Like this is happening, this is starting. I guess if, you know, if, if you're able to find someone that you trust and like, let them know that it's coming.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, now it's time.

[Kim Holderness]

Now it's time for us to be so hip and so with it.

[Pen Holderness]

What Gen Z ers are saying, we are professional translators of what Gen Z is saying. The new term, and by new I mean they've been probably saying this for six months, is holy air ball.

[Kim Holderness]

Holy airball.

[Pen Holderness]

And I think you guys can, you know, read into it. It just means a miss, you trip, you fall. Holy airball. You drop something from your plate. Holy airball. It is a tick tock trend right now.

[Kim Holderness]

This one to me was the closest to them stealing from us because we were the ones who invented. When you're playing in a, in a basketball game, this was invented in North Carolina, I think in Cameron Indoor Stadium was the first time when you miss the rim on a basketball shot, they start chanting, air ball. Air ball. So that was, this is naturally right down my alley, which is why they're probably gonna move on from it soon.

[Pen Holderness]

Are you making that up? Because I think sometimes you say things and you make them up, but you say it with such confidence. The origin of the chant is linked to the 1979 Duke versus UNC basketball game. Wow.

[Kim Holderness]

Why don't y' all trust me when I'm talking about Carolina basketball history?

[Pen Holderness]

Pen dropped something recently. Lola said airball. And it is.

[Kim Holderness]

I got it immediately, but I'm like, whoa.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, but it's a TikTok trend, like how they're doing it. So just, just so you guys are up on that, this brings me to ask you, Pen holderness, what is the one thing your younger self would absolutely roast you for right now? And I can tell you mine while you're thinking.

[Kim Holderness]

So my younger self is roasting me for doing it right now?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. Like I have a pill organizer that's not big enough. So not only do I have a Monday through Sunday pill organizer and it's broken up into morning afternoon dinner, it is not big enough. I need a bigger pill organizer. And my 16 year old self is so embarrassed of me right now.

[Kim Holderness]

That's a good one. And, and when we were younger guys and we saw a pill case, what was the first thing that we thought?

[Pen Holderness]

A grandma.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, this is, this person is a grandparent. Potentially a great grandparent.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. And you have knocking on death's door yeah. And I have a pill case that is so large that I can't even pack it in a carry on. And like it's, it's a problem. It's a problem.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. If my 15 year old self saw me trying to play basketball right now, he would, he would be horrified.

[Pen Holderness]

But you're almost 50. That's normal. Yeah, you actually are 50. Sorry.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, I am 50. But like when I run it looks more like a speed walk. And when I jump, I don't know if I'm getting over a credit card. And I used to be like a good jumper. Like I was a I. So I was the guy on my team when we were playing. Like when there was a basketball game, there was a person, an announcer. You guys had a morning announcements in high school. So there's a morning announcement and they would say, tonight Jordan's playing Hillside. Jordan is led by like J.R. scarborough and Penn, the white man who can jump Holderness. That's what they called me on the morning announcements. And I was like, that's the coolest thing that anyone's ever said.

[Pen Holderness]

I think our teenage selves would also be horrified that last Saturday we looked at each other at or Sunday, Sunday at 7:30 and said we could go to bed now.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

And we did. We went. I think we like turned the lights off at 9, but we were upstairs like reading books at 7:30 on Sunday, horrified.

[Kim Holderness]

And I would say to my younger self, I don't care. This is amazing. I'm going to sleep.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay. Are we done with nightclubs?

[Kim Holderness]

This seems like an obvious answer. Like they are, they don't get going until what? Like I remember when I was in New York, you get there at 10 and be like, okay, is that cool? And no one shows up until like 12:30. So the obvious answer should be, yeah, we're. There's no way we're going to nightclubs anymore.

[Pen Holderness]

But let me tell you, the answer is no. Guys, I have been saying this for years. In fact, we have, we have actual evidence from our podcast talking about this. There is a new trend and the New York Times wrote about it about nightclubs that start at 4:00. And I think we missed $1 million idea pen. Should we play the clip from the podcast? Sure. When was it? What year Was this podcast? 2024. I've been talking about for years as of last year.

[Kim Holderness]

You've been talking about it for a year?

[Pen Holderness]

I've been talking about it for a year. I'm trying to get exc. Being an empty nester. I Think we have like five more years. And in my head I'm going to be the person that goes out several times a week to clubs. And by clubs I mean like playing cards and games, not like the dance clubs, although dance clubs. We should have like a 4pm Gen X dance club. So the New York Times had a feature and the headline was hysterical party until the break of 10pm they wrote about this inaugural installment of the Early Birds Club. It's a roving dance party that takes place within the hours of 6 and 10pm it was developed by two Gen Xers in Chicago and they've been friends since their teens.

[Kim Holderness]

Yep.

[Pen Holderness]

I think six might be a late start. Guys. I say four.

[Kim Holderness]

Six. Okay, hang on.

[Pen Holderness]

I think, I think start. Well, don't you think we get investors, guys?

[Kim Holderness]

Investors?

[Pen Holderness]

Investors. No, but we host. We host Gen X dance parties from 6 to 10.

[Kim Holderness]

So yeah. And here's some other prerequisites. Like you have to. You have to have some device to block out windows. Like it can't. You can't see sunlight.

[Pen Holderness]

Of course.

[Kim Holderness]

I think it has to look like dark.

[Pen Holderness]

It has to be dark. You have to be in comfortable shoes.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

Alcohol. Honestly, we'd have a lot of good mocktails because alcohol optional, you can drink. Not gonna shame you. And it's just dancing. It's just dancing.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. I love it. Like it's. Again, they've done this.

[Pen Holderness]

They've done it. There's a business model.

[Kim Holderness]

So you're just saying our difference would be it's us and we're hosting it.

[Pen Holderness]

It. We're stealing their.

[Kim Holderness]

Stealing their idea.

[Pen Holderness]

But I did have the idea before. I had the idea before.

[Kim Holderness]

I see, that's what this was for. So. Disclaimer.

[Pen Holderness]

Disclaimer.

[Kim Holderness]

Got the idea before you read the article or saw the article.

[Pen Holderness]

But don't. Okay, but maybe we could. We could make this like. Maybe we could have like some sort of wellness. Something people are getting something out of it. I don't know. But who is up? Tell me in the comments for 4pm dance party.

[Kim Holderness]

So we're going. That's the different thing. You're going 4 to 4 to 8.

[Pen Holderness]

Because here, 6 to 10, let me tell you, that means I'm home by like 10:30, 11. I do my skincare routine. I'm home at minute, I think it's four to eight, guys. That way I'm home. I probably shower because I've been sweating.

[Kim Holderness]

So you're getting ready to go to the dance club at 2pm yeah, what.

[Pen Holderness]

Else am I doing? I don't know what else am I doing. So we're there at 4, we dance till 8, I get home, I shower because I've like burned so many calories and I'm. I'm sweating a storm. I do my skincare routine, I have a glass of lavender tea. A glass a couple. And I read my book and I'm in bed in my normal time.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, so it sounds like we are done with traditional nightclubs, but we are not done with this idea.

[Pen Holderness]

Who wants to be an investor? Hit me up in the comments. Thank you for staying on this journey with us in this podcast. I am really, I really appreciate you guys listening. About Oprah. Yep. About the girl who slept with my ex boyfriend.

[Kim Holderness]

If we leave that in there, if.

[Pen Holderness]

We talk about perimenopause and ADHD walking to a bar. This was a journey.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. So. So just so you know, Laugh Lines is written and produced by Kim Holderness, Pen Holderness and Ann Marie Tapke with original music by Pen Holderness. It is filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by Acast. The reason I have my finger up Sam, how long has this recording been?

[Sam]

This episode is currently clocking in at an hour and 18 minutes.

[Kim Holderness]

So hour and 18 minutes. So when you see where we are on the Playhead now, that's how much stuff Sam had to cut out. So Sam may have been busy with this one. So great job, Sam, as always. We love to hear from you. Please write to [e-mail] or leave a voicemail at 323-364-3929.

[Pen Holderness]

I have it memorized.

[Kim Holderness]

We will talk to you soon on the Laughline. Thanks guys.

[Pen Holderness]

Bye. Love you. Bye.

[Amari]

This is Paige, the co host of Giggly Squad. I use Uber Eats for everything and I feel like people forget that you can truly order anything, especially living in New York City. And it's why I love it. You can get Chinese food at any time of night, but it's not just for food. I order from CVS all the time. I'm always ordering from the grocery store. If a friend stops over, I have to order champagne. I also have this thing that whenever I travel, if I'm ever in a hotel room, I never feel like I'm missing something because I'll just Uber eats it. The amount of times I've had to Uber eats hair items like hairspray, deodorant, you name it, I've ordered it. On Ubereats. You can get grocery alcohol Everyday essentials in addition to restaurants and food you love. So in other words, get almost anything with Uber Eats. Order now for alcohol. You must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

[State Farm Representative]

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