← Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness
Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness
Kicking Alzheimer's Butt & Your Questions with Dr. Richard Isaacson
00:57:22
Genes are not your destiny.
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Transcript352 lines
- [00:00]
Kim Holderness
We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
ocean we doze off to or the
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Kim Holderness
succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better.
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Penn Holderness
Despite all this, we often go about
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Kim Holderness
our busy lives removed from it, but
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
the outdoors is closer than we realize.
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Kim Holderness
With Alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation.
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Penn Holderness
Download the free app today and make
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Kim Holderness
the most of your summer with Alltrails. As you all know, the youth mental health crisis is all over the news and we know social media is helping drive it.
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Penn Holderness
Teens spend an average of 9 hours a day on screens outside of school. That's basically a full time job just scrolling mindlessly.
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Kim Holderness
As full time social media content creators, we know that social media can be a beautiful place and it can also be incredibly harmful.
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Penn Holderness
Okay, so here's the good news. There is a solution. This company called Gab has solved the problem by doing something no else is doing. Their approach is tech in steps.
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Kim Holderness
Tech in Steps works by providing safer phones and watches for kids with no social media. Tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time.
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Penn Holderness
From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for tweens and teens, each device allows kids to grow their independence.
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Kim Holderness
Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab which keeps them socially connected without social media.
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Penn Holderness
Yeah, we can't recommend Gab and right now use our code to get the best deal on a kid's phone. That will make parenting easier and give you more peace of mind.
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Kim Holderness
Visit gab.comholderness and use code holderness for an exclusive offer. That's Gab G A B B.comholderness guys,
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Penn Holderness
we're so excited to tell you about our sponsor, Avocado Green Mattress.
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Kim Holderness
Their certified organic mattresses are specifically designed to relieve pressure points, support your body the way it needs it, and help you actually get deep restorative sleep.
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Penn Holderness
You've Every mattress is made with thoughtfully sourced materials and built with real care so you get incredible sleep night after night.
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Kim Holderness
I'm trying to make more intentional purchases, especially for things I use every day. Choosing an organic mattress or solid wood bed frame like Avocado City Bed Frame brings timeless design, quality and sustainability into my bedroom.
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Penn Holderness
When products are made with real certified organic materials, they don't just feel better, they can also provide better support, breathability and durability.
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Kim Holderness
Choosing Avocado is one of the most Sustainable choices you can make as they are made with natural, certified, organic materials that are responsibly sourced and last longer, which means less waste.
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Penn Holderness
Avocado products are made, not manufactured, and thoughtfully crafted with real materials to deliver lasting comfort and support.
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Kim Holderness
Go to avocadogreenmattress.com Holderness to check out their mattress and furniture sale.
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Penn Holderness
That's avocadogreenmattpress.com Holderness avocadogreenmattrush.com Hold
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Kim Holderness
I think you and I were both holding on to hope that, like, you were going to be the one in your family that somehow miraculously, you know, defied the genetics.
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Penn Holderness
And he and you convinced me that we're going to kick Alzheimer's ass.
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
Genes are not your destiny. You can win the tug of war against your genes.
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Penn Holderness
I am convinced that you are 100% on the level and wanting everyone else to have this feeling and making it as affordable and accessible as possible. So I can't thank you enough for that.
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
See the impact you've had on the field of Alzheimer's prevention. Y' all don't even know this.
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Penn Holderness
Yeah, we get older every day. Got more wrinkles.
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Kim Holderness
That's okay.
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Penn Holderness
Yeah, we're laughing. When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we got deaf lines.
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Kim Holderness
Hi, friends. I'm Kim Holderness.
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Penn Holderness
And I'm Penn Holderness. And this is Laugh Lines. And we are thrilled that you're here.
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Kim Holderness
We are so excited you're here. This is going to be a great episode today. All are welcome, but especially those who traded Garbage Pail Kids at the lunch table growing up.
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Penn Holderness
Garbage Pail Kids.
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Kim Holderness
Oh, remember those?
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Penn Holderness
Was that, like, if you had Garbage Pail Kids, were you, like, one of the cool people? Because I did not have those.
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
You.
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Penn Holderness
I'm just saying I didn't.
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Kim Holderness
You didn't have the Garbage Pail trading cards?
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Penn Holderness
No, I did not.
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Kim Holderness
The gasp. I just. Gus.
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Penn Holderness
Yeah.
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Kim Holderness
Oh, wow.
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Penn Holderness
Past tense for gasp.
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Kim Holderness
I just learned something about my husband, and this changes sort of how I see it.
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Penn Holderness
Maybe I shouldn't be part of this show. Okay, sorry.
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Kim Holderness
We have to get right through this. Last month, we had a show with some life updates. We talked about my adhd, but Penn talked about his update with Alzheimer's prevention. He talked about getting on a GLP1 because there's some very early research that suggests it may help prevent or delay Alzheimer's. And we put a clip from that episode on our social media feeds, and it got a lot of attention. I think we should just play the clip just so Everybody has a background.
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Penn Holderness
So I'm on a glp. Let's start with that very small dose. So I got a prescription for Tirzepatide. I'm not saying that you should do this. I'm saying I have a ticking time bomb in my head, which is the APOE4 gene. And if there is even the least amount of evidence that says that this might help it, I don't care. It's a risk that I personally am going to take. That was a tiny clip of a one hour podcast that was one of many podcasts that we've done. I think a lot of people heard glp and that was the big buzzword. There's a lot more that we want to get to, especially in this podcast. It did lead to a lot of comments and questions. So should we go to the laugh line?
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Kim Holderness
Yeah.
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Penn Holderness
It's the part of the show where everyone will find
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Kim Holderness
you.
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Penn Holderness
Tell us what's on your mind.
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Kim Holderness
Hi, guys, this is is Kelly from Tennessee. I also have a lot of Alzheimer's and dementia in my family, and it's pretty clearly genetic, so I've always been afraid to go get the test for it. So my question would be, when I get this test and I do have the high markers for Alzheimer's, then what should I do? I know the GLPs are being tested. I know lifestyle, I know sleep, blah, blah, blah. Like, I'm thinking I'm jumping on the GLP train. It couldn't hurt anything. But I'd love to have some medical weigh in on that.
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Penn Holderness
Yeah, it's a moving target. Right? Like, we, we had talked about doing a book on Alzheimer's, and it's impossible right now because literally every week we're learning new stuff.
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Kim Holderness
We are so deep in the research that our publisher was like, this is a book. And we're like, but if we published a book today, it would look different a year from now. So today we have preventative neurologist Dr. Richard Isaacson, who, who should actually be writing on this. And ideally, these are the questions we answer for Kelly and everybody else, because we got so many comments and questions on that post as what sort of testing is available? What exactly do I say to my doctor? How do I ask for it? What is covered by insurance? And how could you monitor for a potentially developing disease? That and so much more. But first, Pen, I feel like we should back up and give everyone the backstory because we put that clip out, we've talked about it, but a lot of people started following us because of that. And they don't know the backstory.
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Penn Holderness
Yeah. The clip didn't mention that I had both, like, twin copies of the APOE 4. She talked about genetics, didn't. I mean, I talk about this all the time. But in the clip, it didn't talk about my family. So, y'. All. My first real encounter with Alzheimer's was 13 years old. All of my grandfather's kids got their grandkids together and explained what Alzheimer's was at the same time. Because we were going to go to a 50th anniversary party in Tarboro and they said, listen, it's been probably about a year since we've seen them. He probably will seem different, and there's a very good chance he will not know who you are. At which point we're all like, what? Alzheimer's? Explainer of Alzheimer's. My mom wrote a parody when I was 13 to happy days are here Again to like, to celebrate their 50th birthday. And I remember the lyrics. It was. Yeah, it was. All who gather on this spot are glad that you two tied the knot and had all those children you begot 50 years for Gran and Bear. And so we all sang it to him. Funny note. Like he was very confused for most of the time we were there. He was smiling through the whole song. I experienced this later on with my mom. Music does well with people when everything else fails, when a lot of your other facilities fail. But it was kind of devastating to see someone who you love losing his grip on reality, you know? Over the next decade, two of my other grandparents had dementia. Right after that, my Uncle John got Alzheimer's. And so I was thinking about it because shortly after that, my parents developed dementia and Alzheimer's. I don't think there's been a moment in between the time that I was 13, until now, when Alzheimer's wasn't a part of my life with my family.
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Kim Holderness
Wow, you are so right.
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Penn Holderness
Right? I mean, you've been. You've been with me for most of it.
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
I.
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Kim Holderness
When we got married in 2005, there were signs that your mom was actively in decline at that point. And your dad had retired in 2007 from the ministry. He had been a pastor, and he said very boldly, I was starting to forget people's names. And so this needed to, you know, he. He wanted to make sure his parishioners were taken care of.
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Penn Holderness
Here's the thing. Dad was me. Dad was me. He was super aware of it. He's like, advanced directive once this happens, like, drop me off at the beach somewhere, take off. But he didn't have most of the information that we have now. So here's the scary part. Once you get Alzheimer's, you forget. One of the first things you forget is all the things that you said about what you want to do and how aware you are that you're going to get Alzheimer's. So fast forward to, you know, maybe five years ago when this brain health and longevity started making its way toward doctors who were talking to us. There was the Omega 3 kind of thing. Like, that's going to help out, maybe still does. We moved on to, like, learning about lifestyle changes and alcohol and the fact that, like, that studies show that that really does increase the risk. And so I made some lifestyle changes to that. Like the, the kind of one glass of wine you have every night, sometimes it turns into two just to kind of chill out.
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Kim Holderness
No more.
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Penn Holderness
Had to nip that in the butt. The big, big change was one year ago when we, when we talked to Dr. Isaacson and he started talking about the APOE4 gene. I had heard that term a gajillion times. I was fairly certain I had it, but I didn't want to get tested for it because we talked about this in the, like, one year ago with him. It, you know, like, if you knew that your brain was going to completely deteriorate or very likely going to, like, how is that going to affect the way that you live the rest of your life? And he. And you convinced me that we're going to kick Alzheimer's ass.
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Kim Holderness
Right.
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Penn Holderness
That it's not going to matter. That when you get the news that you have twin copies of Apoe 4, which makes you between, they say between 10 and 20 times more likely to get Alzheimer's in the general population. It's not a death sentence. It may be a ticking time bomb because it sure as hell feels like one to me. But we've got the tools to diffuse it now, hopefully. Yeah, well, or at least just like to do the best that we can. We've, like, we've had doctors on here to say we're going to wipe Alzheimer's off the planet eventually.
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Kim Holderness
Yeah.
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Penn Holderness
And so I entered into a trial with Dr. Isaacson that there are 200 people with. He said it's okay for me to talk about. We'll talk about it in a few minutes. And I took the test. I found out to absolutely no surprise that I have apoe 4 twin copies.
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Kim Holderness
Can I pause real quick?
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Penn Holderness
Yeah.
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Kim Holderness
So he entered this clinical trial to. And that that clinical trial is talking about a blood test. And there's different aspects to that trial. And part of that is you. You find out these results. And we were on a zoom screen, and there were, you know, clinicians, Dr. Isaacson, there's about five research people, and there's different tests to open. And he's like, okay, so we'll open this one first. And one of the clinicians said, oh, we're just going to start with that. And that was the moment I knew. I was like, oh, like we have bad news coming. And I think you and I were both pretty. We were expecting it, but it both. I think you and I were both holding on to hope that, like, you were going to be the one in your family that somehow miraculously, you know, defied the genetics of. And you won the lottery and you don't have it. We're good, you know, carry on with life. But, like, to me, even though we were expecting it, it just felt like a gut punch to me as your wife. But what was that like to hear Gut punch?
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Penn Holderness
Yeah, gut punch. You know, it in your head. But when you find out, anyway, it was devastating. And you need someone who tells you that it's not devastating. And for us, that. That's Dr. Isaacson. So I can't wait to talk to him. I also want to give you some credit because you have. You have said to me many, many times, I don't want you growing old and forgetting about us because you've seen it happen to my family. And I don't think you've said this next thing, but I know it's how you feel, which is if you don't do all you can to prevent this, I'm not going to be the one who's suffering. It's going to be you. And we've seen that, right? Like, I'm going to be. I mean, maybe I'll be confused, but I'll also. I don't know that I'll have the ability to even feel the pain and frustration that you and our kids would, having to deal with me. So thank you for not saying that. But I know that's what's on your mind, or that should be on your mind.
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Kim Holderness
That thought had never occurred to me.
- [14:14]
Penn Holderness
Oh, God, I'm sorry. Well, now there it is.
- [14:16]
Kim Holderness
That. Because I'm in it for life with you. I mean, like, I took a vow, so I will wipe your butt, but I will be super annoyed to wipe your butt if you didn't do.
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Penn Holderness
There it is. So I don't want. I don't want you passively aggressively wiping my butt. I want you lovingly wiping my butt because I tried the hardest that I could.
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Kim Holderness
That never occurred to me. But I do see the strain it's putting on you and your brother and, and your extended family who love, loved your dad, loves your mom. Like, I see the strain it puts on and. Yeah, that's. And honestly, we walk into the memory care where your mom is and we just sort of. When you see the other families there that are visiting and it is a particularly cruel way to die. Not that there's like a great way.
- [15:01]
Penn Holderness
No.
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Kim Holderness
But you kind of make eye contact with the other families and you just know they're thinking it too. Like, am I next in line? And also like, are we going to be here one day? So it's a lot.
- [15:14]
Penn Holderness
So. All right, that's a catch up. It's time to bring in the person who got me started on the real part of this journey. Dr. Richard Isaacson. If you want to introduce people to
- [15:25]
Kim Holderness
him, I am so excited because I love this man with my whole heart because he is giving our family hope. Dr. Richard Isaacson is a leading neurologist and expert in Alzheimer's prevention and brain health. He is the director of the Precision Prevention program at Atria Health Instit and the founder of the first Alzheimer's prevention clinic in the United States. A Harvard trained physician, Dr. Isaacson has spent his career focused on shifting Alzheimer's care from treatment to prevention, using personalized early intervention to reduce risk. Driven apart by his own family history, he is passionate about helping people take proactive steps to protect their brain health and maintain cognitive function as they age. Welcome back to the show, Dr. Richard Isaacson.
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
Yeah, it's, it's great to be back. Just to talk plainly, I, I had no idea who you guys were, what I was, who I was talking to last time. Like, I'm like, I don't know. It just popped up on my calendar and like, I just want you all to know, you. You guys have a. We really did something with. We spread. We spread the message. We. We spread the word. With that last, that last podcast, guys are all up. See, I'm not on the social medias, but like, man, you, you all, like, people talk about language. Thank you.
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Penn Holderness
Do you know how we know that you're not on the social medias?
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Kim Holderness
Because you say the social media.
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Penn Holderness
That's not yet. No one calls it the social medias.
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
The talk. Instant Graham. Here's Peter.
- [16:48]
Penn Holderness
Yeah, here's the thing. He is. He's had his head down in a. In a very important work in a very quixotic. But, but I think we're like getting to the point where it's not quixotic and like real stuff is happening his entire life and he's changed my life.
- [17:02]
Kim Holderness
Yes.
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Penn Holderness
And now like now he's texting me and saying stuff like, let's change the world together. And I'm getting frick freaking stoked about it because he's got some great stuff on the Horizon.
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Kim Holderness
I think Dr. Isaacson, I think Penn has had this calling and you could. I think it's all about the brain. So adhd, I think he's really been a part of shifting the narrative of that and he wants to, for the sake of the people listening and our children and our family, he wants to be a part of like making treatment and prevention accessible. And to be honest, even for somebody who has access to a doctor like you, it is very confusing.
- [17:40]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Oh, I mean, it's hard for me. Like I'm learning every day. Like we have team members that like are joining us that this, I mean it's a steep learning curve, but this is early days.
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Kim Holderness
So let's back up real quick. Penn joined a clinical trial that you're running about a pin prick test. Tell us about the status of that, what you've learned about Penn's brain and what, what you're working on there.
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
Oh, man, y'. All, y' all caused the. See, see the impact you've had on the field of Alzheimer's prevention. Y' all don't even know this.
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Kim Holderness
Oh, tell me.
- [18:08]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
So I'm pretty sure you were 183 year. 183. You know what we're up to now?
- [18:14]
Kim Holderness
What?
- [18:14]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
325.
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Penn Holderness
Let's go.
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Kim Holderness
Amazing.
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
We basically doubled our research enrollment since the last time you talk. And a part of this is because of, you know, people like you that are willing to volunteer. And the second thing is funding. We actually got a really, we really appreciative. We got a nice tranche of funding. Basically spent it all thinking we were going to get NIH grant to replenish us. The organization formerly known as nih. The grant was pulled off the website like we couldn't even apply for it in January. So we are on pause again. But Pen, whatever you, your, your, your team, your, your, your reach, your audience, your, like something worked. We are killing it. And Penn, you're part of that. And we have multiple blood draws on you. I've learned from you, I've learned from everybody else. And one day I hope we can like, you know, get this available to all.
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Kim Holderness
Your clinical trial that he's 183. You're testing for a pin prick test that could go at home. Tell us what that is.
- [19:05]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
It's my mission to democratize access to Alzheimer's risk reduction care, Alzheimer's prevention care. Started the first Alzheimer's prevention clinic in the country a dozen years ago. Time flies. And we're trying to develop at home testing because, you know, it's hard to get to see a doctor like Penn. You had to fly in. People shouldn't have to go fly across the country to like access these tests.
- [19:29]
Kim Holderness
Right.
- [19:29]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
And what we're trying to do is we're trying to democratize access, education and testing. A risk assessment test where we match the blood draw that we do, you know, with the vein, stick the needle in and put it in the test tubes and pen. You saw the whole crazy, it's a crazy lab.
- [19:43]
Penn Holderness
You have, you have a machine that there's only a couple of in the whole country.
- [19:47]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
We look at 400 blood tests in your, in your blood. And that's for the brain markers, inflammation, immune and brain proteins. But we also, and this is really key, I think, I think you guys are. Well, what's the test? What should the test. That one test, I heard about it on the news. There's no one testing. You need a panel of brain markers. It's not going to be 400. I think it's going to be like eight, ten, or a dozen. And then you need a panel of blood tests that people do have access to. Cholesterol testing, metabolic testing, inflammation, hormones, nutrition. And you can't just think you can order one single blood test and have every. Okay, pay X dollars. No, it's like garbage in, garbage out. You have to have the whole picture. And just like when we order a cholesterol test, do you just order a total cholesterol? No, you get the LDL and the HDL and the triglycerides. And as Penn has learned, the APOB and the lp, these are the panel of tests. And that there's no difference with brain markers. And we're trying to take the blood that we take from the vein that we spin down, we store it on dry ice in our freezers and we're trying to match it up with fingerprint card blood, which brings down costs. And right now we just did this in December. We can detect over a hundred of those several hundred proteins in fingerprick card blood alone.
- [21:09]
Penn Holderness
That's huge.
- [21:10]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
And there's the R and D, the research and development piece. The research is like 70, 80, 90% done. Now it's the D, the development. How do we bring these lab tests, research tests into clinical use? And we're 12 to 18 months away. And the question I think in our mind, and I want your help with, what do we do until then? How do we get this accessible to all? And, and that's what's been thought provoking to me.
- [21:34]
Kim Holderness
And let me ask you this question because I, I'm trying. My job in this podcast, Dr. Isaacson, is to be very specific because we are getting such thoughtful, specific questions. So in 12 to 18 months, your hope is that could they order it to be delivered to their home or their doctor could provide it?
- [21:52]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
It's our goal that people could order this from the comfort of their own cell phone. Like a virtual ologist in your pocket. I'll talk, I'll talk about the ideas we have and the software we have and what we want to do and build. And it's not like, you know, it, it's, it's not, it's, it's all at our fingertips. It's not like, you know, pie in the sky. You click a button. My goal is 99. Maybe it'll be 149. I don't know, like, you know, whatever we can get the cost down to. The cards only don't cost that much. The mailing and the processing, hundred dollars. You get a screening test and it says you're average risk, below average risk, or above average risk. And if you're above average risk, talk to your doctor.
- [22:31]
Penn Holderness
He asked the question, what do we do in the meantime for people who don't have thousands of dollars, Maybe, I mean, do. Listen, like I, I want to say, do we wait, do we wait a year until we do this? But then I know how you feel about this, that the development of Alzheimer's starts in your frickin 30s, right? Like it's, this is a. I still, I called it a ticking time bomb. I still think it is. I think we've got much better means to diffuse it. But would you ever recommend people to just hold off because a more affordable testing is coming?
- [23:08]
Kim Holderness
More on this after these words. Okay, we've got an ad and it's about menopause. So I know what you're thinking. Time to take a little break. But hold on, let me help you figure out if this ad's actually for you.
- [23:19]
Penn Holderness
If you've ever stood in front of the open fridge for a full minute and walked away with nothing because you forgot why you were there. You may want to stay for the rest of this.
- [23:28]
Kim Holderness
If you've ever started a sentence, lost it completely mid thought and just said never mind. This one's for you.
- [23:34]
Penn Holderness
If you've kicked off the covers, pulled him back, kicked him off again three times before midnight. Definitely stay for the rest of this
- [23:40]
Kim Holderness
because MIDI Health gets it. They're a virtual care clinic built specifically for women in perimenopause and menopause created by women for women.
- [23:48]
Penn Holderness
And guess what? They are done with the whole just live with it school of medicine done.
- [23:53]
Kim Holderness
They offer real personalized treatment plans using FDA approved medications, hormonal and non hormonal and they're available 24 7.
- [24:01]
Penn Holderness
Oh and they take insurance. That's big.
- [24:03]
Kim Holderness
This is the care we should have been getting all along.
- [24:06]
Penn Holderness
Book your virtual visit today@join midi.com that's join m I-I.com this episode is sponsored by Better Help. You know Life is a journey, Kim. Some days feel good, others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, I know for me, I feel like I have to figure it out all on my own.
- [24:25]
Kim Holderness
But the truth is no one has all the answers and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand and to support you can make all the difference.
- [24:35]
Penn Holderness
May is Mental Health Awareness Month and it is the perfect opportunity to check in with yourself and understand where you are right now.
- [24:43]
Kim Holderness
I know I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't have a support system and many people listening and cheering me on.
- [24:50]
Penn Holderness
Speaking of that, with over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally.
- [24:58]
Kim Holderness
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- [25:04]
Penn Holderness
Plus they do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals.
- [25:09]
Kim Holderness
Goals. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy.
- [25:14]
Penn Holderness
Sign up and get 10 off at
- [25:15]
Kim Holderness
betterhelp.com Holderness that's betterhelp H-E-P.com Holderness
- [25:25]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
we can talk in generality, the thousand dollar price point, which I I hate to say it, but that's probably the minimum that a person will need, okay, to get enough to actually get the type of information that I need to make a really well qualified decision. Let's start at a thousand dollars.
- [25:43]
Kim Holderness
Okay.
- [25:44]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Hate to say it, but then the $2,000, my patients that come to me and search me out and like, you know, whatever, or my colleagues that I work really closely with that do practice in this area in preventive medicine and preventive neurology. It's closer to $2,000 to order the full panels, the full pictures, the genetic tests, the everything. And then if you want care, virtual care, if you want to see a clinician, okay, a licensed clinician in your state and get the full cholesterol, metabolism, nutrition, everything, and have a mobile phlebotomist, go to the house because those providers, the healthc care practitioners are, are not near you. They don't have a, a clinic near you that's at the $3,000 price point. So there are three price points.
- [26:33]
Kim Holderness
Okay.
- [26:33]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
That people can at least. I just want to talk about this. And it's a lot of money and it's a real investment, but those are the three price points that I want to at least just talk about while we're doing this.
- [26:46]
Penn Holderness
Can I give, can I just break down the fourth wall and give some other costs?
- [26:49]
Kim Holderness
What?
- [26:51]
Penn Holderness
Skilled nursing for my dad. 10,000amonth. Skilled, skilled nursing for my mom.
- [26:56]
Kim Holderness
10,000.
- [26:57]
Penn Holderness
10,000amonth.
- [26:58]
Kim Holderness
So there was just.
- [26:59]
Penn Holderness
I'm just letting you know that.
- [27:00]
Kim Holderness
And so when Penn, and when Penn and I talk about this stuff, mom has been unskilled and they had, they saved. So it has not hit us financially yet. But there was a moment where it was 20 more than $20,000 a month in, in care.
- [27:16]
Penn Holderness
And here's the next thing you can, you can sign up for long term healthcare. One of my parents did. One of my parents didn't. The one who did. They are, they tried. Yeah. And, and it's, it's, it's not being converted the way it should. Sorry, go ahead.
- [27:30]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
You are finishing my sentence.
- [27:32]
Penn Holderness
Yes.
- [27:32]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
My mom was 7,000amonth and then 8,000amonth. And when she got sick and cooked, $20,000 when she was in rehab and no one would pay. And I was, I mean, that's my, my retirement was my mom's assisted living. So. I hear you. I mean, you are preaching to the converted. And like long term care. She paid $15,000 a year for 30 years for this long term care.
- [27:56]
Kim Holderness
And they didn't cover anything.
- [27:57]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
15 an hour times 8 hours a day was the maximum.
- [28:02]
Kim Holderness
Yeah.
- [28:02]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
For. It was crazy. So I went through this. So, Pen, just thank you for bringing up that perspective to 2000 to $3000 to assess your brain health annually, by the way, at the most comprehensive level possible. I mean, for me that's worth it because I'm going to Cut back in other ways or I'm going to do things like I finished paying my student loans after 22 freaking years in February 2023. My better half is $617,000 of student loans. It pays $5,500 a month, which is awesome. Moving right along. So, yeah, like, we're gonna spend 10 times or 20 times as much on our student loans as, as our, as our brain health. To me, I thank, thank you for that perspective.
- [28:45]
Kim Holderness
It would be great. Let's baseline because we got, we got a lot of comments because Penn is on this GLP1, which we're going to get to, I promise. But that, like, oh, must be nice. Must be nice. I'm like, yeah, we, we definitely, we definitely made some sacrifice. Like, we, we eat from home most nights a week now. We don't go out to dinner now, but that's what we do. And we have this perspective. And, but I do know that at $3,000, a lot of people would, like my mom, who's on Medicare, like, she's, she's not going to be able to do that. Health care system sucks. But we can't. We can't on this podcast solve a really messed up health care system. So let's just say right now, thousand dollars. So $1,000 is what, what can they ask for? Where should they go? Is there a website? Tell me where they're going for a thousand dollars.
- [29:30]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Well, so these three price points are in some ways hypothetical, but in some ways actually very much grounded in the reality.
- [29:36]
Kim Holderness
Right.
- [29:37]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
That I provide.
- [29:38]
Kim Holderness
Right.
- [29:39]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Nothing to sell here. It's free. Retainyourbrain.com is a free NIH funded. They gave us millions of dollars, $3 million. Five years ago. We ran a randomized control trial. We ran the big scientific study. We're submitting this paper this week, literally this week to one of the most prestigious medical journals. People that used retainyourbrain.com free software. The people that really used it lowered their Alzheimer's risk from the comfort of their own cell phone by 16% in six months.
- [30:08]
Kim Holderness
Okay. Retain your brain dot com.
- [30:09]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
No blood tests, no interventions, no drug.
- [30:12]
Penn Holderness
Just education stuff you need to learn, stuff you should do.
- [30:14]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Stuff that anyone can do right now. So let's just start by saying that's free, that's available, that's always going to be free. Whatever. We think that using a network of the people that we have now and a way to grow, we can offer this type of, these types of services through the software. There is a very realistic way where we can fund Our research fingerprint card tests by selling blood tests that we do in our lab anyway. And the price points that I just talked about are basically kind of the basic screening test. If you go to your doctor and your doctor says, well, let's call this guy Isaacson and let's send those labs to us, it's about 850 to a thousand, a thousand $200, whatever it is, depending on what's initial brain health screening panel. I think it's right now we can process those samples for that cost and get the stuff that you. Stuff that people need.
- [31:13]
Kim Holderness
And I will say this again, and Dr. Isaacson is not trying to upsell you as I'm being. No, no, no, no, no. He's trying to pay for his research here.
- [31:22]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
We're a mom and pop operation. We're a research shop that is now pivoting to, you know, we could, we could, we could pivot to care and blood testing. Like, we could do this.
- [31:31]
Penn Holderness
We're going to work this out. People are going to go to the website atretain your brain.com as a good starting point for this. It sounds like by the time this podcast comes out, Richard's going to have called me and said, we've set up something new. Like, there's all this. There's always new stuff. Right?
- [31:46]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
And.
- [31:47]
Penn Holderness
But so what I want to give people right now is the reason why you guys are getting closer to kicking Alzheimer's ass.
- [31:56]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Pen, I don't remember exactly like what we talked about on the podcast or like when. What we talked about before, after the record button was hit, but I knew when I saw you and met you that you had. You were at risk. And I gently. I don't know when I said this. I don't know if this is.
- [32:15]
Penn Holderness
You said it on the podcast.
- [32:16]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
I did.
- [32:17]
Penn Holderness
You said you used the word phenotype.
- [32:19]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
I have an expertise that is, I would say, uncommon. I treat people that have an uncommon combination of a one in a hundred, two and 100, maybe gene. And you are. You're that guy. Like, I know that I. This is what now, believe it or not, of the. Of the 325 people, we only got 44 of those guys and gals in our research study because it's literally that uncommon. And that being said, I knew what we. This, this was straightforward to me. The roadmap was clear. You literally came in and. And my team, you know, makes fun of me for this. And the blood results came back and it was like, you were easy. Okay. Your blood testing was so helpful. You Jumped on it. You were motivated. You know, I'm not even sure how much we've talked about your results, but my gosh, you look better. I mean, you're, you're, you know, you married up, so good job on that one. But like, biologically, you look freaking great, man. Now we still have a little ways to go, but, but biologically, you just look great. And you know, based on your baseline testing, genes are not your destiny. You can win the tug of war against your genes. You know, we created a lab test for you like that, like this. That's actually, that actually happened like when we were doing research on you. And now we have what we call ldt, a lab developed test where we can measure. You've talked about your genetics on. On publicly. I want to be.
- [33:46]
Penn Holderness
Okay, yeah, I told so what I said, I've got twin copies of the APOE 4 and all of my P Tau markers came up looking pretty rosy. And I have really or had really high cholesterol.
- [33:57]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Someone looked at your genes, they would say, oh boy, he's in trouble. 8 times risk, 10 times risk, 12 times risk. We've created. And this is actually, I've never talked about this publicly, I don't think. A new blood test. This is the first time I've ever done that.
- [34:13]
Kim Holderness
Like, wow.
- [34:15]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Where we look at your genetics like the, the engine. Let's do an engine of the car. Your engine of your car is your DNA. You have an Apoe 4. 4 engine. I don't know right now how to get rid of that engine or, or translate like, like you got that engine. Okay, but jeans are not your destiny. What are you putting into the car? What type of quality fuel are you exercising? Did you correct your, you know, vitamin D? Did you treat your cholesterol which was too high? Did you do the various little kind of low hanging fruit that anyone out there can do without spending lots of money on blood tests. You know, they could talk to their doctor and at least get some, some degree of information or know their own risk factors. You did these different things. And what we do now is look at the engine light in the car. Okay? You look at the engine. Oh, this guy's in trouble. He's got a bad engine. The car is going to crap out in whatever a few years or 10 years or 20 years. No, we, look, we, we now have a. We're not, you know, we can see now and the engine light isn't on because you're putting the right stuff in the thing. And we can measure ApoE4 proteins protein expression. And we do a ratio. So. So. So, pen, we look at your amyloid ratio. Amyloid beta 42 to 40. We look at your Taus. Not just B Tau 217. That's a marker. That's really good. Person has symptoms to see if they have Alzheimer's as their pathology, but we don't do that for you. We have different reasons. We use P Tau217, P Tau181. We do ratios of the tau proteins to the amyloid proteins. We look at a marker of brain inflammation called gfap. We look at a marker of. Of neurodegeneration. You got none of that. Called NFL. Like neurofilament light, not the football thing. And then we look at these ApoE4 engine light protein tests, which I think, to my knowledge, we're the only ones that do this clinically, not just for research. So this is the panel, the comprehensive panel. It's eight blood tests, four ratios, four of these tests. Sorry, this is too complicated. We run twice for even greater accuracy. Penn, you remember that thing we stuck up your nose?
- [36:14]
Penn Holderness
Yes.
- [36:15]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
That was important because people with symptomatic or asymptomatic infections can spike their brain proteins.
- [36:23]
Penn Holderness
Okay.
- [36:24]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
People are getting blood tests all over the country right now. They're either sick or not. They don't know it, or it's asymptomatic or getting better. But the. The. No. No one who out there is doing brain blood tests and pairing it with an. Like. This is new. No one knows this. So we figured this out in our research study. Right? So. So, Penn, we tracked your brain markers, we tracked your inflammation, we tracked your viru. All these things. We have your samples in a freezer. And by the way, there's no reason why people out there won't have access to this stuff at some point or generally. But, Penn, you're. You've. You've done amazing. Like. Like, should I give you some percentages about how you've improved and. I'm sorry, have I even talked to you about this?
- [37:05]
Penn Holderness
No. And I'm getting, like, emotional here because I feel so lucky.
- [37:08]
Kim Holderness
Yeah.
- [37:08]
Penn Holderness
Like, I feel so lucky. And I just want everyone who's watching this to know how lucky I feel to have.
- [37:14]
Kim Holderness
But everybody should have this, and that's what we're working for.
- [37:17]
Penn Holderness
I know, I know, but I'm telling you right now that I want everyone to have this feeling.
- [37:21]
Kim Holderness
Yeah.
- [37:21]
Penn Holderness
So, I'm sorry. Please, go ahead.
- [37:23]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Your number. This is awesome. This is just awesome. This is, like, in theory, like, I knew this was gonna happen because I've been. I've seen this movie before. Right. But, like, you actually did it. And every time I see this, I'm just like, this is freaking awesome. You know, like that guy Simon, the Apoe4four guy from that CNN documentary.
- [37:40]
Penn Holderness
Yeah.
- [37:40]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
I remember his brain. His brain grew, and then he came back again and his brain grew again. Like. Like that really happened. And every time I'm like, wow, I'm humbled. I'm just like, like, it's, you know, it's. It's. It's emotional, too. Your towel was never bad. Okay, I'm not going to give the numbers, but your towel was never bad. It was. It was average. You have an average tau. Your tau level was normal and dropped by almost 31%.
- [38:07]
Kim Holderness
Holy moly.
- [38:09]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Like, what? Like, that's. That's like freaking awesome.
- [38:13]
Penn Holderness
You know, they. Someone sends me a beer and I say, I think I'm gonna pass, you know?
- [38:18]
Kim Holderness
Yeah.
- [38:19]
Penn Holderness
Slice of pizza, maybe I'm not gonna do that. Worked out a lot more and took statins.
- [38:23]
Kim Holderness
Yeah.
- [38:23]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Now we have another towel, which is even better. Which is, you know, which is PTA181, I think. Better for you.
- [38:30]
Kim Holderness
Yeah.
- [38:30]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Because of your before symptoms. 29 drop. I mean, that's. So there's congruence here. The other numbers. This. These ratios. Yeah, I mean, your ratios dropped. Now, now, now, remember, why do we do a panel? Because we want to make sure we're not, you know, living in a fool's paradise. I will say, and which is why I was okay with, but not super bullish on a GLP1. And I, I hope you went on the half dose, but I can't remember.
- [39:03]
Penn Holderness
Not even. So I'm. I'm on the half dose and I don't think I'm. I think I'm doing it more like every 10 days instead of every seven days.
- [39:09]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Penn, your numbers look good, but there is something that I think could possibly be optimized and that is, again, not a bad. This isn't bad. But, like, again, you went from normal to opt. More. Better. More better.
- [39:22]
Kim Holderness
More better. Yeah.
- [39:24]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Your brain inflammation marker is normal, but I want that to be more normal.
- [39:28]
Kim Holderness
Normal.
- [39:29]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
And that's why I wasn't opposed when you wanted to experiment with a GLP1 microdose. However, making sure that you were having enough protein, exercising regularly, tracking body composition, doing strength training at least two to three times a week, having proper nutrition. I am okay with GLP1s for brain health as long as the person is following the. The Lifestyle plan with it.
- [39:50]
Kim Holderness
So that brain inflammation marker marker that's in your blood test, does that exist in a, that your lab can pull that out? Does another lab have the ability to pull that out?
- [40:05]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
That is available at some labs. I'm not sure if it's all labs. I don't know the veracity of one versus another and it's really, you know, hard to cross compare. But yes, I would say there are other labs that can do the brain inflammation marker. And to me, for example, I never order tau protein alone without that brain inflammation marker. And then if the brain inflammation marker is, I would say not perfectly optimized, what I can then do is look at the other things to see does it need to be, you know, intervened on. So I look at all the other, all the other.
- [40:38]
Kim Holderness
So if there's a way that they can walk into their doctor and say, this is what I heard from this guy. Can you send my blood here?
- [40:44]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
The lab is Alls Labs. Allslabs.org is the lab. And if you go there, it talks all about we're a mission driven whatever that's trying to democratize access through at home testing. A doctor just needs to go to
- [40:55]
Penn Holderness
allslabs.org.org okay, so if you've got a little bit of time, we got a ton of questions from viewers and this may have to be kind of a rapid fire thing, but a lot of just specific questions. You've answered quite a few. But, but is it okay if we try like some rapid fire for a bit, please? You put me on Zetia to lower cholesterol. Why is that so?
- [41:17]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Well, your doctor put you on Zetia.
- [41:19]
Penn Holderness
Sorry, you recommended it. My doctor put me on it because
- [41:21]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
we're a research, but we do labs that are clinical grade. We were able to, we were able to share our findings, certain findings with your, with your clinician, with your doctor and your. And in those findings, we found out that you, Penn, biologically speaking, was like different people have high cholesterol for different reasons. Right? You have high cholesterol for a couple of reasons. You have genetics that increase your risk. Okay? So you treat the cholesterol, you mitigate, you know, manage the risk. We do in another test to see why are you Penn. Having increased cholesterol biologically. Some people overproduce cholesterol. They make too much of it. Their body, their DNA makes too much. And other people actually absorb too much in their gut when they eat food. And we put, we, we put this information to the ether. I, you know, I, I Chatted with your doctor, who's really amazing. And you actually have a great medical team that understood this, which was great. And the test showed that Zetia ezetimibe, a plant sterile inhibitor, which is a generic drug, very easy, you know, pretty safe, treated the type of cholesterol pathway that you were on. And thus, in our research, we've shown, in our studies that we presented in the last year or so that ezetimibe can be protective on brain health and improve some of these brain biomarkers.
- [42:43]
Kim Holderness
Okay. Shingles vaccine it is. Is that something you recommend for people?
- [42:47]
Penn Holderness
We've got a shingles date.
- [42:48]
Kim Holderness
Oh, no. We have a shingles date soon. Because I just turned 50.
- [42:51]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
50. Oh, hey, happy, happy birthday.
- [42:54]
Kim Holderness
Get a shingles vaccine.
- [42:56]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
You know, this isn't a debate about vaccines, and I want to go there, but the shingles vaccine is. Is just. Yes. Hands down. Yes. I've seen people get shingles who are at highest risk for Alzheimer's, and within six months, weird things happen. I've had people, multiple people that get cankers, sorry, Fever blisters, you know, the cold sores, their tau protein spikes to wazoo, their brain inflammation spikes. Viruses are bad for the brain. Shingles vaccine, very good for brain health and prevention. I've seen people with flu, Covid, whatever, during those things, they spike and then they come down. It takes a while. Yes. Shingles vaccine. Yes.
- [43:38]
Penn Holderness
All the creatine.
- [43:39]
Kim Holderness
Yes or no?
- [43:40]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
I like creatine. I'm a 5 milligram a day kind of. Kind of guy. There was a recent study that showed that higher doses helped people that already had that cognitive issues. But I don't go there. 5 milligrams of creatine makes sense to me. But you got to also exercise and do strength training and have adequate protein if you're expecting to gain muscle mass.
- [44:03]
Kim Holderness
This is. I'm reading from a. Com. A comment. Also see if you have an mtf. HR Gene mutation, very common for those of us with adhd, keeps us from absorbing B vitamins. Chronic B vitamin deficiency can contribute to dementia. That was like a lot of loops there, which is why I was like reading it. So is. Is B. Does ADHD keep you from. Have you heard that before?
- [44:26]
Penn Holderness
Nope.
- [44:27]
Kim Holderness
Is. Is B vitamin deficiency contributing to dementia?
- [44:30]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Yeah. Well, that was an interesting comment. I was most pretty much on point. Penn, you do have a double. You know that you're in the 10 of the population that has the double thing with MTHFR. No.
- [44:44]
Kim Holderness
So does that mean he has to take a different type of vitamin or something.
- [44:48]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
So I did not feel that that is something maybe important for you at this time. Your B vitamin, basically what this MTHFR gene does, it does increase risk of Alzheimer's a little bit. But this is how I think it through. If you're able to absorb sufficient B vitamins in your gut when you eat them or, or in a vitamin that you take it, then you, you probably don't have to supplement or change the type of B vitamins. So let me explain. Most B vitamins out there like fortified in food and a supplement is cyano cobalamin. That's just the, that's the name when people have this genetic combination, we sometimes recommend methyl cobalamin.
- [45:29]
Kim Holderness
Okay, okay.
- [45:30]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
You can take in a vitamin. It's just a different type. I actually take it because me and Penn have some similarities and I take it because my B vitamin levels were like lower than I wanted them to be. Pens were like okay, they were in the 600s and, and it's a judgment call whether or not you need it. Your homocysteine level is normal. Homocysteine is an amino acid in the blood. So it's again, it's all this puzzle pieces, right? You have the gene but your B vitamins are okay, could be higher, but actually your homocysteine looks good. So you don't need to supplement. And that's why when people just take all these supplements just because there's a, there's a method, there's a, there's a roadmap here and that's what we try to educate about.
- [46:07]
Penn Holderness
Here's a person who wrote in just to tell us what their regimen was. Would love to know if there's any red flags. I guess I'm also apoe4.4. I added sauna four times a week for 20 minutes, red light therapy every day for 15 minutes, learning Italian, which I think is awesome. Fasting 16 hours a day, creatine supplements, weightlifting, high intensity training and walking and swimming. So this person's doing work.
- [46:32]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Couple of things. Apoe4.4 is a little bit different in women. So I'd like. She didn't use her age. Her age wasn't given there. No, no. So E4.4 is in women. If she is in the perimenopausal range early and, and careful tracking of estrogen levels in the blood and managing perimenopause symptoms is really critical for women with two copies of the Apoe 4 variant or even one copy. So while all of that is awesome, I just want to not miss that's the critical window of opportunity when an APOE 44 woman's brain starts having the rapid decline of estrogen. That's when the amyloid protein starts building up. We showed this in our research at Cornell. We did a huge, huge study on this nih, funded with, with close colleagues. So I would start by saying that I. I really like sauna now. I want to make sure that if they're spending that much time in the sauna, are they doing everything else in terms of exercise on a regular basis?
- [47:31]
Kim Holderness
And she says she is. So.
- [47:32]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
So yes. You know, three times a week, you know, hot finish sauna, 15 to 18 minutes at 185 degrees. If you can tolerate it, I think is great. I think, think in, you know, red light is more peripheral. It goes into the skin and maybe helps with inflammation. I'm not clear how much better it is or if it's different than finish. Hot sauna, dry sauna. I like dry sauna better. But that's, that's, you know, to be debated. She seems like she's really on the right path, and I love that.
- [48:04]
Kim Holderness
Okay, great. Choline supplements.
- [48:07]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
I'm not sure I'm not opposed. I think choline from eggs. You know, in the, in the yolk of eggs, there's a product which is called a medical food that was studied that had choline and phosphatidylserine in it. And I think if people are getting sufficient eggs in their diet, I don't usually recommend someone to try choline or supplement with choline. I never have proactively, but there's plausibility there for sure.
- [48:30]
Penn Holderness
Okay, Kim, you ready for this one?
- [48:32]
Kim Holderness
Yeah.
- [48:32]
Penn Holderness
Hearing loss.
- [48:33]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
What?
- [48:35]
Penn Holderness
Exactly.
- [48:36]
Kim Holderness
So, Dr. Isaacson, listen, listen, listen, listen.
- [48:39]
Penn Holderness
I know that I have. Have one band where I can't hear so well because I played in a band and I went to an ear doctor and he's like, yeah. And then I said, well, my wife really wants me to come here because she feels like I'm, like, always straining to hear in restaurants. And he said, penn, you've just gotten older and your executive functioning is making it harder for you to hear. And then this morning, she said something, I didn't understand a certain word. And she's like, you have hearing loss. You're gonna get Alzheimer's.
- [49:06]
Kim Holderness
So that's so backup up. I read this study where those like with hearing loss can contribute to a dementia, and therefore people are proactively, even with the slightest bit of hearing loss, getting hearing aids. My husband is going deaf.
- [49:25]
Penn Holderness
No, no. So she'll talk and this I'm gonna, you'll be able to hear this. I'm gonna use my microphone for this. She'll be like, hey honey, like later on today, do you think you could pick up the dry cleaning? And also, is there a chance that you could have like. And she walked, she walked. She walks away and she goes into another room without raising her voice anymore.
- [49:41]
Kim Holderness
Hearing loss.
- [49:41]
Penn Holderness
This is, this is marriage therapy.
- [49:43]
Kim Holderness
Okay.
- [49:44]
Penn Holderness
Mostly.
- [49:45]
Kim Holderness
How closely connected is this?
- [49:47]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Do you think I'm here for it? So it pains me that you haven't been screened for hearing loss earlier. And I wish that, you know, you did join our study, our research studies for blood testing. But like, I wish you had access to a real life person or educational materials because every single person listening has to take hearing loss seriously. 45% of cases of dementia may be preventable if that person does everything right. And 8% of that 45 modifiable risk factor is related to hearing loss. This is like so important. And I know it's like, like, and I, I fought with my mom about this and partners fight about that. Whatever. This, this is a thing. And I'm Team Kim on this one.
- [50:32]
Penn Holderness
Sorry, but I took a test and they said I have normal hearing except for one small like band layer. I'll send you the test.
- [50:39]
Kim Holderness
No, no, no, no. Dr. Isaacson, he, I, my kids have even come to me. They're like, he is, he cannot hear us. Like we're having to repeat things more.
- [50:48]
Penn Holderness
There's a difference between hearing and listening. Yeah, I don't think I'm a good listener.
- [50:53]
Kim Holderness
Somebody commented. This is a direct comment look into study as well. We brought it to our family members, Dr. And they started exhibiting, when they started exhibiting signs of dimension and they prescribed it and it helped.
- [51:04]
Penn Holderness
So this is for people who are already showing signs.
- [51:06]
Kim Holderness
Right? A lithium study. I don't know anything about this.
- [51:09]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Yeah, I've had mixed opinions on this and mixed results. So lithium orotate is a type of lithium. It's not like the prescription lithium, the level dosing that for, you know, for a psychiatric disorder. But it's a, it's a different version and there's been, I would say, eloquent research, like well done research, but not ready for prime time. Never been studied in a randomized control trial. I have just not seen. We've only had a handful of people futz around with lithium and we've looked at the brain markers and some maybe improve a little bit and some don't move at all. But we did try this once recently with a colleague of mine. I didn't prescribe it or recommend it, but there was, you know, I'm not ready to make this as like a broad brush.
- [51:49]
Kim Holderness
Got it.
- [51:50]
Penn Holderness
This is from Kim LeBaron. Wait till you see the next GLP Eli Lilly is testing. It's called Rich Tetradide. They refer to it as Triple G. It's supposed to be even better than Zapound or Mounjaro.
- [52:01]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Correct, correct, correct. Play on words. GLP3. GLP3 is not a real thing, but this triple agonist, triple antagonist, triple receptor, whatever it's called, the muscle loss that we see with GLP1s all too frequently may get much better sweet with these new drugs. So 912 months. I don't know when this drug may come out, but follow this story.
- [52:25]
Penn Holderness
What is the single biggest change in the last year since we started talking in knowledge of prevention of or treatment of Alzheimer's?
- [52:35]
Kim Holderness
More on this after these words.
- [52:38]
Penn Holderness
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Kim Holderness
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Penn Holderness
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Kim Holderness
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Penn Holderness
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Kim Holderness
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Penn Holderness
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Kim Holderness
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Penn Holderness
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- [53:47]
Kim Holderness
That's HOLDERNESS to 64, 000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. This episode is brought to you by Best Western Hotels and Resorts.
- [53:58]
Penn Holderness
Okay, Kim, if I say spring break, what, what pops into your mind?
- [54:02]
Kim Holderness
I'm not really sure I could say that this mic is hot.
- [54:05]
Penn Holderness
Exactly. But hey, what if we can redefine what spring break looks like for today's
- [54:11]
Kim Holderness
travelers, More relaxed, more grown up.
- [54:13]
Penn Holderness
Yeah, like we deserve a simple trip that is meaningful but doesn't require a ton of planning.
- [54:17]
Kim Holderness
Well, you know, I love not planning and I also love a nice getaway that's well earned.
- [54:22]
Penn Holderness
Couldn't agree more. Spring break isn't what it used to be. It is better this spring.
- [54:26]
Kim Holderness
Stay three nights and get a $50 Best Western gift card.
- [54:30]
Penn Holderness
Life's a trip. Make the most of it at best Western.
- [54:32]
Kim Holderness
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Penn Holderness
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Kim Holderness
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Penn Holderness
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Kim Holderness
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Penn Holderness
AG1 is an easy fit into my daily routine and it's a huge boost boon to my energy levels, my immune defense and digestion.
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Kim Holderness
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Penn Holderness
So visit drink ag1.com laughlines to get a free AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 in your AG1 welcome kit when you first subscribe. It's a $72 value, you guys.
- [55:50]
Kim Holderness
That's drinkag1.com drink ag1.com laughlines
- [55:59]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
to me, it's that like I can see clearly now. Like I can see where I felt before. You know, doctors go on clinical judgment. They go on their gut impression and like I saw you, I knew this, I felt this. But then the, you know, people sitting in the ivory towers with the fancy titles at the academic, academic researchers say prove it. Prove it, Isaacson. Prove it. Okay, well, 15 years later, here it is, Penn. You look like this, you feel like this. Something is this. And then we show it in the, in the blood test. So I would say, I would say that's a, that's a part of it. I would say, listen, accessibility and education, like we're talking about blood testing. And the comment section on your social medias are blowing up on the blood. Like good about this. Like, let's talk about it again. Be cautious. Promise not to over promise. We are not ready for a blood test revolution yet in Alzheimer's prevention care. But it is coming and I will not stop until the cholesterol test for the brain is, is out there and accessible. And yes, it's more expensive now and harder to get. But it's just like that changes. Like in time it will change. It's science fiction to me me that in a few drops of blood we can detect over a hundred proteins. And like I started this five years ago. It took four to six months to get blood test results. We sent them to Europe to get, to get first one, then two, then six results. We're over 400 results. You know, Penn, go from your arm to our machine. 31 minutes, we got eight. We got eight results. 90 minutes, we get more and then two and a half weeks we get the full panel. Things are just, you know, know we're at escape velocity when it comes to brain health and we just need to just push this forward and make it accessible.
- [57:41]
Kim Holderness
I am so glad that people like you, and specifically you are on this planet doing this work because to your point, this is not. Alzheimer's is not a sexy trending topic or hasn't been. And it was, but. But it's. It's been a part of our family. So it is what we. And it is encouraging to me that so many people are taking this seriously now that so many people our age are taking this seriously.
- [58:11]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Alzheimer's disease is a clinical and pathological condition. What the heck does that mean? And why am I saying it? And why is it so important? If there's a person out there that does not have any symptoms but gets a positive blood test result, a positive. Say they beg their doctor, they ask their doctor, they order the test. Somehow they have a positive Alzheimer's blood test, but they have no symptoms. By definition, by my definition, as advocated for by the international working group, you don't have Alzheimer's disease. Alzheimer's disease requires biological signals, pathologic positive blood tests or positive scans and symptoms that can be related to Alzheimer's. It's a clinical pathological. Just because you have high cholesterol, does it mean you have heart disease or a heart attack? No, it's a risk factor for something bad to happen later. It's the same thing with blood tests. So one aspect that we just didn't bring up, I want to be really
- [59:13]
Penn Holderness
careful about that Everything that we've talked about today has been less about getting blood tests for having it, but for preventing, preventing the markers.
- [59:22]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Well, to understand risk. If, you know, we don't make our blood tests, don't diagnose anything. Our blood tests give people like some, you know, knowledge about what the biological like they learn about themselves and where they're at. And then the year from now, is it changing.
- [59:36]
Penn Holderness
Thank you. I, I laughed, I learned, I cried, which I was not expecting. I. I'll say it again. I feel like the luckiest man on earth to have found you and to have caught this study midstream. And I am convinced that you are 100 on the level and wanting everyone else to have this feeling and, and make it as affordable and accessible as possible. So I can't thank you enough for that.
- [60:00]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
Right on. And thank you for helping me spread the message far and wide.
- [60:05]
Kim Holderness
Thank you so much to Dr. Richard Isaacson. We are going to have a very robust show. Notes. But As a reminder, allslabs.org, which is his alz labs.org, is where his lab. He does not make money off of his research. He does not take a paycheck off of this. And he's very sensitive to the fact that he just that. So they've never charged money for this.
- [60:30]
Penn Holderness
The other website he mentioned again is retain your brain. And Sam, our producer, has been spending a little time on there.
- [60:37]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
It's a great website.
- [60:38]
Kim Holderness
You totally free make an account. You take seven quizzes, okay?
- [60:42]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
They're on the topics of nutrition, sleep, exercise, cognitive activity, emotional health, oral health, and social life.
- [60:49]
Kim Holderness
Basically, what this is trying to do
- [60:52]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
is help you with improvements you can do without a doctor.
- [60:56]
Kim Holderness
Okay?
- [60:56]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
So it's gamified it.
- [60:58]
Kim Holderness
So basically you have a bunch of
- [61:00]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
routines that you can sign up for, such as taking an omega 3 fatty acid for 21 days and then if you do it, you, like, get points.
- [61:11]
Kim Holderness
Oh, I love it.
- [61:11]
Penn Holderness
I love the gamifying.
- [61:13]
Kim Holderness
And listen, as a listener of this podcast of a viewer of our videos, we are not trying to make money off of you. So when he's saying that these I have learned today, I literally thought you could just walk to your primary care provider and say, test me. Yeah, I did not realize, like, this is how much I don't know about this. I did not realize that not every lab can pull these things out and, and not every doctor can interpret them.
- [61:41]
Penn Holderness
Right. He is just the testing. I mean, he's a doctor, but all he has ever talked to me about have been Tests and interpretations of them.
- [61:49]
Kim Holderness
Right, right, right.
- [61:49]
Penn Holderness
So. So I, I guess that's the hardest part.
- [61:52]
Kim Holderness
I know I wanted to really have some answers of, like, ask for this, this, this, and it'll be covered by insurance. The healthcare system is very slow, so
- [62:02]
Penn Holderness
the most important thing I heard was the machine that I'm on is testing for 250of these markers is some crazy amount of markers, which is great. And it's. Again, it's. It's unprecedented. No one else in the world is doing it. I'm in the trial and I can't. I can't feel more fortunate. But he did say, like, there's a way to democratize this and use 8 to 10 tests that would give you. I think he's saying it would kind of get you, like, 95% there, which is pretty darn good. And so very much looking forward to that, which is part of that pen prep thing that has gone into, I guess the research is done and now that it's gone into development. So we're kind of doing our top takeaways right now. And that, to me, that was, was. That was a huge takeaway. You guys were with me when I heard the results. I can't tell you how that feels. I want to make something very clear because we've been talking about GLPs. None of that was GLP results. That was putting me on a statin and, like, making some lifestyle changes. That was it.
- [63:04]
Kim Holderness
So the next blood test you do, I am curious what the brain inflammation marker will be now that you've been on the GLP1 4 for three months. Three months. So that should. I mean, hopefully my question is if you are. I don't. You didn't really have any side effects or symptoms, and you're eating pretty well. And so I. I don't know if you're taking. Maybe you're the type of person who needs a little more.
- [63:29]
Penn Holderness
We'll see.
- [63:29]
Kim Holderness
We'll see.
- [63:30]
Penn Holderness
As crappy as I felt when I got the test results of the APOE 4 and the high cholesterol, I feel the opposite right now. I feel like someone just took an anvil off of my chest. To know that, like, okay, this plan of attack is already working doesn't mean I'm not gonna lose my mind, but I think that, like, I'm doing something to help tilt the odds in my favor.
- [63:54]
Kim Holderness
I love it.
- [63:54]
Penn Holderness
I, like, I have this real wish now to. To get this information out. I. I want people to trust the man that we just had on the show. And I Want to, like, I think you do, too. I want to get my hands dirty and find out, like, how to amplify that message and how democratize it as well.
- [64:13]
Kim Holderness
I think it would be his wish that you could walk into your primary care physician and that this and that the labs across the country could handle this sort of thing.
- [64:21]
Penn Holderness
And that might be 10 years down the road and which means it might be too late for a big percentage of the population once they find out. But, like, also, look at me. Okay. Completely irrelevant of the brain tests. I started taking my cholesterol seriously and it lowered a bunch of my markers.
- [64:39]
Kim Holderness
Markers.
- [64:40]
Penn Holderness
Just looking at my cholesterol. Yeah, Lowered my markers. That's something anybody can do. Like, right now. Like, and again, not even the GLP yet.
- [64:49]
Kim Holderness
Right.
- [64:49]
Penn Holderness
So, like, lifestyle changes.
- [64:52]
Kim Holderness
Okay. As we wrap things up, what I would like you to do, if you've made it to this point of the podcast, I'd love you to vote. Do you want me to record Pen going to an audiologist and maybe getting hearing aids and putting that on?
- [65:04]
Penn Holderness
Everyone's always on your team. That's ridiculous. Everyone is always. I've already gone.
- [65:09]
Kim Holderness
Do you want him to go again and perhaps talk to somebody?
- [65:12]
Penn Holderness
This is.
- [65:13]
Kim Holderness
Everyone specializes in brain health.
- [65:15]
Penn Holderness
It's gonna be like 99.
- [65:16]
Kim Holderness
Imagine the people you could help. Thank you for watching. I love you so much who are listening to this, and I hope this information is helpful. This is a moving target and we will update you. We'll keep you in the loop, but keep those questions coming.
- [65:28]
Penn Holderness
And just in honor of what you just said, we're gonna read the credits for the hearing impaired. Map Lines is written and produced by Kim Alderness, Pen Alderness and Anne Marie Tapke with original music by Penn Holderness. It's filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by acast. Dude, as always, we love to hear from you. Write to us your podcast@the holdersfamily.com or leave a voicemail at 323-364-3929 and we'll talk to you soon on the lap lines.
- [65:55]
Kim Holderness
Dude, are the hearing impaired surfer bros?
- [65:58]
Penn Holderness
Maybe.
- [66:01]
Kim Holderness
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
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Penn Holderness
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
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- [66:54]
Kim Holderness
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- [67:50]
Penn Holderness
Did you know if we switch to
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Kim Holderness
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- [68:09]
Penn Holderness
I'll send you text America's Best Network
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Dr. Richard Isaacson
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- [68:15]
Penn Holderness
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- [68:17]
Dr. Richard Isaacson
See verizon.com for detail.