Making Friends, Marriage, & Maybe Aliens

Summary

Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness

Episode Title: Making Friends, Marriage, & Maybe Aliens
Date: November 4, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Kim and Penn Holderness tackle the joys and challenges that come with aging, all while keeping their signature light-hearted and candid tone. The couple (joined by their producer Sam and occasional input from Ben) center conversations around making new friends in midlife, the realities of marriage through tough times, and wellness trends worth questioning. Sprinkled throughout are discussions of aliens, Gen Z slang, and pop culture, plus interactive listener Q&A through their “Laugh Line.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Are Aliens About to Visit? (06:15–12:10)

• Comet or Spaceship?:
  • Penn explains the perihelion of the Atlas 3I comet, diving into science (“When any object gets to its closest point to the sun, there is an orbital correction that happens... If you are instead of a comet, an interstellar spacecraft... you will perform something called an Oberth maneuver.” —Penn, 07:50).
  • Internet speculation: Could it be a disguised alien craft?
• Kim advocates for alien overlords:
  • “We could hot take benefit from having some alien overlords at this point.” (10:00)
  • Both agree: humans are pretty scary; maybe aliens are an upgrade.
• Memorable Moment: Kim likens her potential approach to alien invasion to a famous Simpsons bit about “welcoming our new insect overlords,” emphasizing she’d rather not fight back (11:27, Simpsons clip).

2. The Whitney Houston TikTok Challenge (12:10–15:19)

• Pop Culture Fun: Kim and Penn try to perfectly sync a clap to the famously suspenseful drum beat in Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You"—a viral challenge testing music timing (“It’s so much longer than you think.” —Penn, 13:44).
• Nostalgia: Bodyguard shout-outs, with Kim highlighting its impact for Gen X.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Kim: “Can we just sit and listen to this song real quick? I mean, that's such a bop.” (14:41)

3. Making Friends in Your 40s (15:24–21:10)

• Listener Question: Jessica asks how to make friends as a new-in-town empty nester.
• Kim’s Advice:
  • Be intentional—say yes to invites and check out group activities (mahjong, dance class, pickleball).
  • Follow through—if you meet someone, call and follow up.
  • Schedule friend-time, even when tired.
  • “When you move to town and you don't have kids that are going to school... it is very hard, but at this age... we've had to be more intentional.” (16:58)
• Penn adds: Don’t be afraid to go alone—pick-up sports and group fitness classes are welcoming communities.
• Sam (Producer) insight: No one knows you—so you can try new things, be extroverted, or quietly bail.
• Penn’s tip: “Just because you meet someone doesn't mean you have to be friends with them... you can be picky at that point.” (21:04)

4. Midlife Weight Changes & Wellness (25:37–38:15)

• Listener Question: Are you gaining weight in midlife and how much exercise does it take to offset?
• Penn’s Reality: “I'm working out more than I used to... bread back still there.” (26:30)
• Kim’s Term: “Items have shifted during flight.” She details how losing even 7 pounds took a year and required strict calorie tracking—then “needed carbs for my soul” after her daughter left for college.
• General Conclusion: It’s a lot of work not to gain weight in your 40s/50s, and that’s ok.
• Notable Quote: “You don't have to gain weight in midlife. It's just a lot of freaking work to not.” —Kim (28:58)

Wellness Hacks & Toe Spacers (29:21–38:15)

• Penn’s Toe Spacer Journey:
  • Inspired by Dr. Richard Isaacson’s study on longevity (“The theory is that the toe spacers help increase circulation of the longest vein or artery in your body... which will keep you healthier.” —Penn, 31:12).
  • Penn’s podiatrist is skeptical, but he likes the post-removal feeling: “When I take them off, it’s like that feeling at 4 o’ clock when you take the ski boots off.” (31:16)
  • Kim: “I was hesitant and then you said Taylor Swift uses them, so…” (32:25)
• Kim considers EMDR and neurofeedback:
  • Looking for sleep and ADHD solutions; EMDR is therapist-recommended and WHO-approved, but neurofeedback is expensive and research is “mixed” (per Sam, 37:20).
• Audience Call-to-Action: They invite listeners to “de-influence” or endorse wellness trends.
• Highlight: Fun detour clarifying Dr. Scholl’s medical credentials, complete with Penn’s mock-formal apology (38:33).

5. Making Marriage Work (40:05–45:59)

• Listener Questions: How do you keep marital joy alive during tough times? Any marriage crises?
• Honest Answers:
  • “We don’t [keep joy alive during tough times].” (40:05)
  • They describe rough patches—particularly after their daughter left for college—and how they handled feeling distant or unloved.
  • Key insight: “I think you treat the people you love the most the worst.” —Kim (42:53)
  • Solution: Small connections—a daily hug or affirmation—can break the cycle. If all else fails? “Just start a podcast... Pretend podcast... Everyone else is doing it.” —Penn (44:35)
• Date Night Reality: Not in their season for date nights, and that’s okay. Time together at work isn’t necessarily “couple” time either.

6. “On the Road to 50”—Strength Goals & Gen X Motivation (48:53–54:08)

• Kim’s Turning 50 Challenge: Aims to do an unassisted pull-up; inspired by Gen X pop culture (Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2, the Presidential Fitness Award).
• Deep Dive: Why the pull-up matters: proving strength, self-reliance as she ages, and healing childhood gym trauma.
• Kim:
  • “If I fall over in the nursing home, I want to be able to stand up.” (50:16)
  • “I think it’s some Gen X lower-T trauma, never getting the Presidential Fitness Award.” (52:08)
• Penn's Note: If needed, Kim would probably succeed quickly—she’s that determined.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On aliens taking over:
  “We could hot take benefit from having some alien overlords at this point.”
  —Kim, 10:00

• Pop culture fun with “I Will Always Love You”:
  “It’s so much longer than you think.”
  —Penn, 13:44

• On making friends as an adult:
  “You have to say yes when invited...and then you have to schedule time to actually see people.”
  —Kim, 16:58–18:59

• Candid marriage realities:
  “I think you treat the people you love the most the worst.”
  —Kim, 42:53

• Aging and strength:
  “If I fall over in the nursing home, I want to be able to stand up.”
  —Kim, 50:16

• Humor in wellness:
  “If you put anything on a comment that says, you should try this… I will try it. Could be called bippity boppity flippity flop.”
  —Penn & Kim, 39:53

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Aliens & the Atlas 3I Comet: 06:15–12:10
• Whitney Houston TikTok Challenge: 12:10–15:19
• Making Friends in Your 40s: 15:24–21:10
• Listener Q&A – Weight & Wellness: 25:37–38:15
• Toe Spacers & Wellness Hacks: 29:21–38:15
• Marriage Q&A: 40:05–45:59
• Strength Goals & Pull-Up Challenge: 48:53–54:08

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Tone & Style

The Holdenesses blend informative, relatable content with plenty of laughter and self-deprecation. Their candidness about struggles—whether with weight, wellness fads, or marriage—invites listeners into a safe, humorous conversation about the realities of aging, family, and finding joy.

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For Listeners

Whether you’re seeking advice on making friends, wondering if aliens are around the corner, or laughing at attempts to nail a pop-culture TikTok challenge, this episode reminds you: aging is better (and funnier) together, and no one has it all figured out.

Have thoughts, questions, or want to share your own laugh lines? Write or call the show—they read and respond on air, and your oversharing is always safe here!

Transcript

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[Ben Holderness]

This episode is brought to you by Gab.

[Kim Holderness]

It's that time of year again. The holidays are coming fast and if your little kids are anything like mine were, that list is already getting pretty long.

[Pen Holderness]

Kim let's be honest, some of the things on their list made us stop and think like a smartphone.

[Kim Holderness]

I remember when our kids were starting to show interest in smartphones. Hey, we love being on the Internet, but it didn't mean we wanted our little ones to have access to the Internet.

[Ben Holderness]

So that's why we were so relieved when we heard about Gab. Gab offers phones and watches made just for kids.

[Pen Holderness]

So no Internet, no social media and.

[Ben Holderness]

Just the right features for their age.

[Kim Holderness]

Honestly, I think I need this as an adult. Kids want phones to feel independent and connected and as parents we want to know they're safe. With Gab, you can have both and protect them from the scary stuff.

[Ben Holderness]

With Gab's tech in steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time.

[Pen Holderness]

And from watches with GPS tracking for the youngest explorers to the perfect first phone with no Internet or social media.

[Ben Holderness]

To the teen phone with parent approved apps.

[Kim Holderness]

So get ready for a Christmas morning. They'll never forget the one where they get their first phone. And really, it's a gift for you too because these kids safe phones will give you peace of mind.

[Ben Holderness]

Visit gab.com holderness and use the code.

[Pen Holderness]

Holderness for a special holiday offer that's.

[Kim Holderness]

G-A B B.com holderness gab tech and.

[Pen Holderness]

Steps Independence for them. Peace of mind for you.

[Kim Holderness]

This show is sponsored by MIDI Health.

[Ben Holderness]

Are you in midlife? Feeling dismissed, unheard or just plain tired of the old health care system? Well ladies, I'm here to tell you you're not alone.

[Kim Holderness]

It's super. It's wonderful when you do the creepy movie trailer voice.

[Pen Holderness]

It's my serious announcer voice to talk.

[Ben Holderness]

About how, you know, for for too long women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized IG and met with just deal with it as an attitude Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

I know you're being silly, but stats don't lie. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for perimenopause and menopause issues are left entirely untreated.

[Ben Holderness]

That sure is a lot of women not being heard.

[Kim Holderness]

But here's the powerful truth. It's time for change. It's time for midi. MIDI is not just a healthcare provider. It's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health.

[Ben Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Ben Holderness]

And MIDI offers a full range of holistic data driven solutions, from hormonal therapies and weight loss protocols to lifestyle coaching and preventative health guidance.

[Kim Holderness]

This isn't one size fits all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you.

[Ben Holderness]

All right, ladies, ready to feel your best and write your second act script?

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Ben Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

That's join MIDI.com MIDI the Care Women deserve. I am here to lower the IQ of the audience.

[Pen Holderness]

I think we just made everyone feel a lot better by hearing that we are not okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, by the way, if they're aliens, maybe this podcast never sees the light of day.

[Ben Holderness]

Yeah, we get older every day.

[Pen Holderness]

Got more wrinkles.

[Simpsons Clip (Kent Brockman)]

That's okay.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, we're laughing. When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we got laugh lines.

[Kim Holderness]

Hey, everybody, I'm Kim Holderness.

[Ben Holderness]

And I'm Ben Holderness.

[Pen Holderness]

Welcome to another edition of Laugh Lines.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, if you stayed home from school and you watched exclusively the Price is Right, that went into Days of our Lives. Yes, you were home. Oh, that was the best.

[Pen Holderness]

I never made it through Days of our Lives, but I did hear the opening song every single time.

[Kim Holderness]

Iconic.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, that dong. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And you talk ding, ding, ding like.

[Kim Holderness]

Sand to the hourglass. So are the days of our lives.

[Pen Holderness]

And then like really, really bad zoom ins of someone just walking in through a door. And I was like, that's it for me.

[Kim Holderness]

I Can I admit something?

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

I altered. I structured my freshman year college classes around being able to watch Days of Our Lives because they had a storyline that I'm sure is still continuing. It was like Hope and Beau were married, but then like maybe Hope died. But then our Twin came back or something?

[Pen Holderness]

Brain transplant of some sort.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, I'm sure it. And I. I mean, now kids can just. They don't even know what it's like to have to schedule their college classes around Hope and Bow.

[Sam (Producer)]

Right.

[Pen Holderness]

It is interesting. I think they had a resurgence when Joey started playing a character on Days of Our Lives in Friends and people like. I think Lola became curious when she started watching that show. But.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, what's the show so good anyway? Anyway, I hope you're doing well. Laugh Lines is a podcast where we talk about life and, you know, aging. We're very pro aging and all of the wonderful things that come with it.

[Pen Holderness]

All this stuff. Right.

[Kim Holderness]

But also, you know, what's happening in pop culture. This podcast, it's going to be a good one. We are going to the laugh lines heavy and hard. We are talking about making friends and keeping friends in your 40s, about gaining weight in midlife. We're also talking about some weird wellness hacks that I personally want to try. The ones Penn has been trying and Dear listener, you're gonna have to tell me if these works, but we're gonna start with just really what's been dominating our minds right now.

[Pen Holderness]

Really excited about this. Kim and I each came to the table with something that's. That's been on our mind, and we're going to go down both avenues. And maybe one of these appeals to you more than the other. I would love to know in the comments, like, which one are you more interested in? Are you more interested in the Whitney Houston TikTok challenge or the fact that by the time you see this, we might have some alien friends?

[Kim Holderness]

Sam, you get to decide. Which one are we.

[Pen Holderness]

Which one you want to start with?

[Guest/Additional Voice]

Let's go.

[Sam (Producer)]

Aliens.

[Pen Holderness]

Aliens. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

So this is a new segment that Sam's going to make a special open for called, called you Heard it here first, except you didn't. Really.

[Kim Holderness]

The name of the segment has to be you Heard it here first, except for the fact that by the time you're hearing this, the event is over.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, so that's a longer version of you Heard it here first, but not really.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

You like your version better?

[Kim Holderness]

A hundred percent.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, great. So that's just gonna be a little more text for Sam to fit in there.

[Ben Holderness]

We're recording this.

[Pen Holderness]

It's important to note on October 29th. October 30th is the day that the Atlas 3I comet reaches perihelion. Kim, did you know that?

[Kim Holderness]

What?

[Pen Holderness]

Do you know it? Say more it's okay. We're almost at perihelion, people. What do you think perihelion means?

[Kim Holderness]

Perihelion. Okay, Helion.

[Pen Holderness]

You're getting somewhere. Do you know what helium refers to?

[Sam (Producer)]

Let's do the Greek breakdown.

[Kim Holderness]

Helios. Helios, like sun.

[Ben Holderness]

Yes, yes, yes, Perry.

[Kim Holderness]

Menopause. Close before the sun.

[Pen Holderness]

Very good.

[Kim Holderness]

Really?

[Ben Holderness]

It is that.

[Kim Holderness]

I did not do well.

[Ben Holderness]

Very, very near.

[Pen Holderness]

So perihelion is going to be this comet's closest encounter with the sun.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

And that's a big deal because when any object gets to its closest point to the sun, there is an orbital correction that happens. Its gravity changes the course. It's an expected thing. It's how we rotate around the sun. We're constantly falling toward the sun because of its gravity. So if you're not in a regular circular orbit like a comet and you get to perihelion, generally speaking, you just kind of make a little turn. No big deal. Well, there are some people on the Internet that are very curious to see what happens because if you are instead of a comet, an interstellar spacecraft, which some people think that 3 Atlas is, they will perform something called an Oberth maneuver.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, so back up.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So there is a comet heading towards the sun.

[Pen Holderness]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

That could be either an alien air, like an alien life force headed our way, or just a comet.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And we will be able to. We will know this tomorrow.

[Pen Holderness]

Well, we might, but the. These people might just say, well, it didn't happen now, but it's going to happen later. Logically, if you are an interstellar spacecraft and you reach perihelion a lot of times, a lot of times you hit your booster rockets, you either accelerate or decelerate to change your course, and you do it normally at perihelion. So tomorrow, or in this case two weeks ago, either could be or was a major paradigm shifting moment in the question of are we alone in this universe? I'm reading too much Twitter right now.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

This. What, what I think is.

[Kim Holderness]

What I think is, I think it's a comet.

[Pen Holderness]

Things like. I listened to Hank Green say this. He's like, things are always almost aliens until they're not. And there's always like a point when you're like, no, that wasn't an alien. But until then, why not take that point, 0001% chance possibility that it's an alien and run with it, which the Internet does. And I'm here for the reading.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. Can I. I hope it's aliens because.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, honestly, it's It'll have meaning.

[Kim Holderness]

I want to change things up a little bit around. Okay, well, I'm really. I'm. I'm. Humans are very scary. Right?

[Pen Holderness]

Right. Okay, this is an interesting take.

[Kim Holderness]

We could hot take benefit from having some alien overlords at this point.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, I hear you.

[Kim Holderness]

Right. If they're smart enough to get here, they're smart enough to solve. Like, they could figure out snap benefits. Probably.

[Pen Holderness]

No doubt. They are probably. They are probably on a higher level than us in. In technology, potentially even in social enlightenment, all that stuff. But also why you think they're coming here.

[Kim Holderness]

Probably because they've expended the resources of their current planet and are looking for a Goldilocks planet like ours.

[Pen Holderness]

There it is. So you've Learned something from Mr. Holderness, haven't you?

[Kim Holderness]

But I am team, by the way. If they're aliens, maybe this podcast never sees the light of day or we.

[Pen Holderness]

Just look like geniuses.

[Kim Holderness]

So you heard it here first. By the time you're hearing it, it is done. So maybe we'll have an update to this. So we'll update it.

[Pen Holderness]

I hope that they're just. That if they are aliens, they show up and they're like, hey, what's up, guys? We just wanted to come say hello.

[Kim Holderness]

What if they're just sharing resources?

[Pen Holderness]

No, no, that's. You don't know if you're doing this, you're coming to move on in. Yep.

[Kim Holderness]

And we already know. I've talked at length about my theory. Like if. If. If alien zombies, anybody, Anybody comes to. To really, and they want to fight. I'm not your girl. Yeah, I. I'm. I'm first in line. Just take my resources, give them to the young and able. I'm not gonna run. I don't. I don't sleep well enough. Like, I couldn't hide in a shelter and sleep. No, I can't do this.

[Pen Holderness]

This is a good time to run a clip from the Simpsons of Kent Brockman welcoming our ant overlords. I think this is Kim's thought.

[Simpsons Clip (Kent Brockman)]

The Corvair spacecraft has apparently been taken over, conquered, if you will, by a master race of giant space ants. It's difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume the captive Earthman or merely enslave them. One thing is for certain, there is no stopping them. The ants will soon be here, and I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their Underground sugar cave.

[Pen Holderness]

So Kim's gonna be rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves or. No. Okay. You welcome them though.

[Kim Holderness]

No, I just don't want to fight them. I don't want them to win, but I just don't want to fight. You took us to science class. You gave us information that's gonna just make us sound so smart at a cocktail party. I am here to lower the IQ of the audience. Okay. What made my son laugh on the way to school today? Oh, that's important though, is that we did. We were trying the Whitney Houston TikTok challenge. Okay, let me explain this to you. And this is something. If you're watching, great. But really, this is an audio. This is an audio game.

[Pen Holderness]

Should we explain the greatness of the bodyguard also while we're doing this?

[Kim Holderness]

Or one of the greatest movies.

[Pen Holderness]

Right.

[Kim Holderness]

Anyway, so she took Dolly Parton's I will always love you and famously remade that song. And there is. Right before one of her big. The last one, there is a. A singular beat on a drum that is at an odd time. So there have been situations where people, they are playing this, the music on a speaker and they're trying to match.

[Pen Holderness]

The nail the drum.

[Kim Holderness]

They're trying to nail that drum beat. So what I would like to do is play the clip of that song. And listeners at home, if you want to clap it out with us, we're going to see how many it takes for us to really get it right. To get that right.

[Pen Holderness]

Are we going back and forth or how do you want to. How do you.

[Kim Holderness]

We're going to have to go back and forth. Okay, I wish you luck.

[Pen Holderness]

You're going first.

[Sam (Producer)]

Okay.

[Pen Holderness]

It's so much longer than you think.

[Kim Holderness]

I was not close. Okay, now. Now Pen's turn.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Ben Holderness]

And if you over.

[Pen Holderness]

Is it like the prices? Right. If you go late, you get no points.

[Kim Holderness]

Exactly.

[Pen Holderness]

So it's got to be either before or on time.

[Kim Holderness]

No, I don't.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, let's give it a go. Just gotta feel it.

[Kim Holderness]

A little late.

[Simpsons Clip (Kent Brockman)]

A little late.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, Sam, are you gonna try it?

[Pen Holderness]

Yep.

[Kim Holderness]

And then you just clap it up.

[Pen Holderness]

Such a bop.

[Kim Holderness]

She didn't even clap.

[Guest/Additional Voice]

I didn't even put my hands together.

[Pen Holderness]

It's. It's almost impossible.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, let's try one more time.

[Pen Holderness]

Cuz I'm like counting it, counting the beat out.

[Sam (Producer)]

It's not on a beat.

[Pen Holderness]

It's. It's. I think it's on five.

[Kim Holderness]

It's like five.

[Pen Holderness]

I think it's on five and a half from.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, let's try it one more time, listeners. One more time. All together. Ready? It was the closest, I think, probably. Okay, can we just sit and listen to this song real quick? I mean, that's such a bop.

[Pen Holderness]

Kevin Costner spoke at Whitney Houston's funeral because of the relationship that they built while filming this movie, the Bodyguard, which was.

[Kim Holderness]

If you haven't seen it, if you're Gen X. Yeah. It is burned into your brain.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, so Pen made you smarter, but I. We had a little more fun.

[Pen Holderness]

Way more fun. I probably put everybody to sleep or had them turn off the podcast, and they. Hopefully they stayed for that because that was fun. Okay, guys, today is all about you. We call it Laugh Lines. And our favorite part of Laugh Lines is the Laugh Line, where you send us your stories, your questions. You famously overshare sometimes, which we are absolutely here for, because this is a place where your oversharing is safe. So let's go to the Laugh Line.

[Kim Holderness]

We are crowdsourcing this for some comedy and free therapy. Let's go.

[Ben Holderness]

Part of the show where everyone will find. Call us up and you tell us what's on your mind.

[Movie Trailer Announcer]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Our first one is from Jessica. She says, how do I make friends in my 40s? I'm new to town, and I'm an empty nester, by the way. Jessica moved to Raleigh, which is where we are. You're gonna laugh that I have answers to this, because I think a year ago, if you're a loyal listener to this podcast, you would hear me struggle not with making friends, but maintaining those relationships in a more meaningful way. And I actually made it a resolution because I feel like I had such wonderful women in my life, but I wasn't really working at maintaining those. And I feel like I've done a much better job recently. So I do have advice for Jessica. Okay, ready? I know, because this is shocking to everybody.

[Pen Holderness]

No. And I can confirm that you have been intentional about this. And I just want to tell anybody out there, my wife is incredibly charming, and everybody wants to meet her, but in spite of that, it does take work at this age. So, like, this. This whole thing has been fascinating to me. So, yeah, I want to hear.

[Kim Holderness]

I think my most of my. If you look back at my life and my very best friends, they come from, you know, a workplace, A shared workplace experience. Right. Or school experience. And it was like a proximity relationship. When you move to town and you don't have kids that are going to school and you're not meeting kids in that school, it is very I would imagine it's very hard, but at this age, when we're no longer going to every single. There's not a school event every day for us to go to and meet people and do play dates. We've had to be more intentional. Okay. My first one is that you have to say yes when invited. And even when you see something posted online, like a. A mahjong meetup or something like that, you're like, oh, who goes to those things? Like, you have to go to those things. And I learned this from my friend Hillary, who I've mentioned before. She is. So she will just go, go to. She's like, oh, I saw this thing posted online, and I'm just gonna go. And she will go by herself if. If nobody else is available and she comes out with phone numbers of people that she. Then the next step is she checks in and follows up with people.

[Pen Holderness]

Isn't that great?

[Kim Holderness]

So she moved to town. Probably. She moved to town during the pandemic, but could host a party here now and have way more people. We've lived here for, like, 17 years. She would know more people in the community because she does the intentional work of. And then she'll call me, and I'm like, oh, my God, this is an emergency. And she's just calling to check up, like, what a cool thing. And I've learned. I've learned that from her. And then the last thing is you have to schedule time to actually see people. And that's not easy because I get so tired at the end of the day after working all day. I actually don't want to see people, but I'm always happy I did. So whether it's pick. I've done, like, pickleball, mahjong, and I joined the dance class. And you have to, whether you feel like it or not, say, going to the gym, you actually have to schedule time and do it. But it is been. It's been really cool to have, like, new friends at this age.

[Pen Holderness]

10 out of 10. That's. That's. I mean, most people don't think about this. They just think that it's going to happen to them. Um, I. I won't add much. I'll add, like, just a couple of situations that I think you could put yourself in. I tell this to everybody. Go to find the city's pickleball court and go play by yourself. Yeah, yeah. Don't go with anyone else. If you're worried that you're not athletic enough, you're fine. Doesn't matter. Like, the people who are less athletic kick the crap out of me all the time. And there, there's something about that particular sport, at least where I live, where it is an incredibly accepting place. And I think pickleball is. Is kind of. Is kind of the new church in that sense. Like, you're there, you're there for one thing, but you kind of leave for the community also. Church is a great place to go if you want to.

[Kim Holderness]

Ok, remind me the name of the beginning mahjong class at our favorite restaurant. Why am I forgetting the name of the restaurant that has Kitchen Table? Kitchen Table. In Raleigh? If you're in Raleigh, they have beginning beginner mahjong classes and they do board games and stuff. And like, what a better, more. That's like such a welcoming place too.

[Sam (Producer)]

And can I add one thing on? Because I, you know, go to a lot of these intro classes and things because I like trying new things and meeting people. The beauty about going to these classes is that, like, no one knows you. So one like, you can. If you're an introvert, you can pretend to be an extrovert for the day, or if you get there and you hate it, you can just leave. Nobody's, like, gonna judge you or you're never gonna see these people again.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. And every gym on the planet, I'm not talking about like a Gold's Gym, but like a CrossFit box or like a dance class that you go to or, you know, if you live in a bigger. A bigger city. What's the boot camp? Barry's Boot Camp. All of these places are built around, like, a fellowship element where they want you to be friends with other people. So they, like, build that programming. So going to something like that just once, it should be free.

[Kim Holderness]

I will say Sam is also producer. Sam is 10 out of 10. About, like, putting you. Okay. You did kickball, billiards. No, bowling, billiards, kickball, Dungeons and Dragons. Like, you do. Like, you try stuff.

[Pen Holderness]

Last piece of advice, Jessica. Just because you meet someone doesn't mean you have to be friends with them. Like, you can be picky at that point.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, yeah. I think that's. That is the best part of being this age is that nobody has time or the ability to. To pretend. More on this after these words. This episode is sponsored by Pura. Pura is the smart home fragrance brand redefining how people scent their spaces.

[Ben Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Pen Holderness]

For sure. Yeah.

[Ben Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

It's the perfect time to discover why everyone's switching to Pura. But hurry, this offer is for a limited time only. Go to pura.com and claim your free set before it's gone.

[Ben Holderness]

This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack and hydration sponsor. IQ Bar is the better for you Plant protein based snack made with brain boosting nutrients to refuel, nourish and satisfy hunger without the sugar crash.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Ben Holderness]

Right now, IQ Bar is offering you our special podcast listener 20% off all IQ Bar products including the sampler pack plus free shipping. So to get your 20% off, just text holderness to 64,000.

[Kim Holderness]

Text holderness to 64,000. That's holderness to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details.

[Ben Holderness]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[Kim Holderness]

As seasons change and days grow darker sooner, it can be a tough time for many. This November, BetterHelp is encouraging everyone to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones and remind the people in your life that you're there.

[Ben Holderness]

Yeah, just as it can take a little courage to send that message or to grab coffee with someone that you haven't seen in a while, reaching out for therapy can feel difficult too but.

[Pen Holderness]

Guys, it's worth it.

[Ben Holderness]

And almost always it leaves people wondering, why didn't I do this sooner?

[Kim Holderness]

I have a friend named Hillary, and she is the best about reaching out, calling, checking in on you. If she knows you have something big going on, she'll, like, call me. And sometimes I'm like, is everything okay? And she's like, yeah, no, just call her to say hi. I'm like, what? What is that?

[Pen Holderness]

Anyway, you want to be more like Hilary.

[Kim Holderness]

I want to be more like Hillary.

[Pen Holderness]

I love that.

[Ben Holderness]

Okay, well, you know, this season isn't easy for everyone, and it's important to stay connected. As you just said, Kim, we are healthier when we have community and when we have support.

[Kim Holderness]

Maybe it's calling grandma, writing a letter to make some Wednesday, or grabbing lunch with a friend you haven't had time for lately. You'll be glad you did.

[Ben Holderness]

With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, having served over 5 million people globally.

[Kim Holderness]

BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from one of their tailored wrecks.

[Ben Holderness]

This month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. First step.

[Kim Holderness]

Our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] Holderness that's better.

[Ben Holderness]

HP.com Holderness.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, next.

[Pen Holderness]

Tammy, Are you guys gaining? Maybe they notice. Are you guys gaining weight despite all efforts due to aging? And if not, how much exercise?

[Kim Holderness]

Tammy trying to. Trying to give us a hit.

[Pen Holderness]

No, no, no.

[Simplisafe Announcer]

That's.

[Pen Holderness]

She didn't mean it that way. So the answer to me is yes. I was around 200 pounds for most of my life, and I'm now closer to 205, sometimes even 207 or 2 or 8. It is exclusively in my bread back area. It's like I don't. And it doesn't matter what I'm doing. There's just this extra grimace thing that's happening around my midsection. Sorry. You guys know grimace is.

[Kim Holderness]

And that's what his back looks like.

[Pen Holderness]

I don't think it's, like, super noticeable to other people, but it's there. Like, I feel it when I'm, like, moving around. Like, there it is, there it is. And I'm exercising exactly the same. I'm eating better than I used to.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

It's just something your body's like bread back time. And so, yeah, I am. And I'm like, I'm working out more than I used to. I'm like building more definition in my upper body than I have in like 10 years. Bread back still there.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. We did a whole episode about like gaining weight in weird places and middle age. And yes. So my term for this is items have shifted during flight. And it is, I think in our 20s you could, you would go out on the weekends and you have a few drinks and you would eat nachos and then you could spend Monday drinking a lot of water and eating a salad and you'd be back to your reset. I mean, I got real. We ordered door. We doordashed cheesecake to our house on Saturday night. And we. I ordered a lot because I'm like, well, if we're going to pay the fee, we might as well just get a lot, right? And so we.

[Pen Holderness]

It's a one time fee.

[Kim Holderness]

It's a one time fee.

[Trusted House Sitters Announcer]

Fees.

[Kim Holderness]

So let's make it good.

[Pen Holderness]

Four cheesecakes for three people. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And also I was like, well, I want to tip this person to have. Anyway, I'm gonna make it worth their while. So we ate cheesecake or I did for like three days. I still feel it. It is so unfair. But I do know I. So yes, I have gained weight, but then last year I actually, I did the work. I'm like, I'm going to lose. I gained like 10 pounds. And I was like, I'm going to lose this weight. And. And it took me. And so I've gained weight back, but it took me probably a year to lose like £7. And it was so hard. I really did have to pay attention, like count carbs and calories and stuff to. When my daughter left for college, I just didn't have the capacity anymore to care about what carbs I was eating. Like, I needed. My soul needed carbs. So I've put some weight back on. But yes, so we've gained weight in our midlife and I just don't know if I'm willing to do what it takes to not gain weight.

[Pen Holderness]

Still look great.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you. No, I feel good. I feel good.

[Pen Holderness]

I'm just affirming that.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you. No, no.

[Pen Holderness]

Still look great. But doesn't it just feel like we're at that age where it's just gonna come Unless. Unless you are either getting a shot of something or like it's. Your body is naturally just taken on a little bit more and that's what it feels like.

[Kim Holderness]

We are going to have a podcast with Dr. Eric Topol, and he talks a lot about GLP1s for more than just weight. And so maybe that's it. And maybe there's an answer for that for people in midlife, and that's zero judgment from this guy.

[Pen Holderness]

None.

[Kim Holderness]

But, yeah, I think that you don't have to gain weight in midlife. It's just a lot of freaking work to not. This question's from Cool Mom. I need to know more about the toe separators Pen is using and any other weird wellness hacks you're trying. Let's start with Pen's toe spacers, and then we're going to go on to some hacks that I want to try. And I need you guys to, like, either de Influence me or influence me.

[Pen Holderness]

Can't wait to talk to Dr. Topol about all this, too, next week. That's going to be fun. Okay, Cool mom, great question. Toe spacers. Bit of a journey for me, right? So I just. My. My toes, like, I don't know if you guys watch Boomerang where they talk about, you know, I was with this girl and then her toes were Hammer time. Talked about.

[Kim Holderness]

That's such a Gen X movie.

[Pen Holderness]

So. And I remember seeing that bit. First of all, like, I saw her feet, and I'm like, my feet are way uglier than that. But so my family has a history of just crappy feet, particularly right at about this age, like, crazy bunions, all that stuff. And I didn't know what a bunion was until I had a doctor look at my foot and say, that's quite a bunion you have there. I'm like, no, that's old. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, we're. We're all.

[Pen Holderness]

So a bunion is when your feet, instead of just naturally springing like this, they start to, like, go out this way a little bit, and it's like a little extra knuckle that kind of kicks out. And so when you're walking, it's. It's the wrong way, and it starts to hurt after a while. Anyway, I'm getting, like, orthotics for this whole thing, but on a. In a. It hurts a little bit. On a separate path, like, Sanjay Gupta and a bunch of other people have been like, ooh, toe spacers are going to help longevity and brain health or something else.

[Kim Holderness]

And you're working with. You're on a study with Dr. Richard Isaacson, and he recommended it.

[Pen Holderness]

He's like, toe spacers. I'm like, you know that those are. My toes are down as far away from my brain as anything. And the theory is that the toe spacers help increase circulation of the longest vein or artery in your body because it goes all the way down your leg. And so that like leads to a lot of ambulance ambulatory issues later on, which then ties into brain health because you're not able to get exercise. So it's a little bit of a leap. But yeah, that's like, that's why they're recommending it.

[Kim Holderness]

And I don't think it hurts, right? I mean, I mean, won't hurt your brain health.

[Pen Holderness]

No. So I, I wear, I, I use them for about 15 minutes a day. It doesn't feel super great when I'm have them on, but when I take them off, it's like, you guys ever go skiing, snow skiing? And that feeling at like 4 o' clock when you take the boots off? When you take the boots off, it's like that kind of feel. And I don't. So I'm like, maybe it's just helping align me more. So I go see my podiatrist earlier this week.

[Kim Holderness]

A sentence you never.

[Pen Holderness]

I was the youngest person there by 700 years. No, I was, I was, I was much, much younger than everybody there. I was trying to go proactively and.

[Ben Holderness]

I was like, yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

So, you know, I'm also taking toe spacers and the guy's like, like, it's great. They make you feel better. I'm like, afterwards, he's like, they don't really help. Your bunion. Your bunion is your bunion. Your bunion is coming. It doesn't, you can't reverse that part of your foot.

[Kim Holderness]

I, I didn't think it was for that. I thought it was for longevity and brain health.

[Pen Holderness]

He didn't seem to have a whole lot of confidence in the brain health or longevity part either.

[Ben Holderness]

I think you have, it takes a.

[Pen Holderness]

Little bit of imagination and like the kind of butterfly effect of toe spacers allowing you to move around for longer, which will keep you exercising, which will keep you healthier.

[Kim Holderness]

These are the hard hitting topics we covered here. On the laugh lines, I will say I was hesitant and then you said Taylor Swift uses them.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So I was like, well, Taylor Swift. Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Right.

[Kim Holderness]

Here are the wellness trends I want to try, but I need somebody in this community to tell me if it's worth the investment. Not me, not you. Because Penn is going to say hard no on both. Hard no on both.

[Pen Holderness]

So I'm just gonna, I'm Just quietly. No.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. So I. I have a wonderful functional medicine, OBGYN or gyno, not obi, that has recommended some things for me. First of all, EMDR therapy, which is more like cognitive behavioral therapy. And it's like you do something like with the eyes. I'm not gonna get this right, but it's supposed to help my brain.

[Sam (Producer)]

EMDR stands for Eye Movement Desensitized.

[Pen Holderness]

Desensitization.

[Sam (Producer)]

Desensitization and Reprocessing, a psychotherapy that helps people heal from trauma, anxiety, and other emotional challenges.

[Kim Holderness]

So it has been suggested to me and suggested by my therapist that I try this. I think it's very. And my therapist takes insurance, so I think I can try this and feel good about it. Why are you.

[Pen Holderness]

I want anything that will help you with anything that you just mentioned, like trauma. If you've got trauma, let's find it, let's address it. Anxiety, we know you've got it.

[Kim Holderness]

So emdr, I want to try.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

I need our listening community to tell me if you've tried it, if it's worked for you, if it's worth that sort of investment of time, all for it. The next thing I want to try and has been recommended to me by medical professionals is something called neurofeedback.

[Pen Holderness]

That's the one.

[Kim Holderness]

I did an initial free session because it's not covered by insurance. So it's. It's quite an expense. So I did a free consult. And Sam can explain what maybe the. Oh, God, she's already laughing. Why are you laughing?

[Sam (Producer)]

Just trying to understand. I'm just googling. I've never heard this.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Sam (Producer)]

Neurofeedback is a form of biofeedback that uses real time brainwave activity to train individuals to regulate their brain function.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Pen Holderness]

All right, so.

[Kim Holderness]

So let me tell you about this free session I went to. I got kind of the sales pitch, and then they put some like, hair gel in your hair, or they put a, like a shower cap on your head and they squirt some hair gel in, and there's these kind of like a little electrodes that go all over your brain. And then they. I so desperately wanted somebody that be there in the room with me to laugh at me because this was the. Like, this is what I'm like, this is where my life has brought me. Like, my, my anxiety is bad enough that I'm sitting here in a shower cap with, like gel streaming down my face. And it was sort of a diagnostic, so it showed there was like a lights on and a lights off. And there was music on and music off.

[Pen Holderness]

And these things were measuring.

[Kim Holderness]

And they were measuring, sort of like where things were lighting up afterwards. I got the printout and it said, I have trouble with attention and focus, therefore, an indicator for adhd, which. That is a different podcast. I'm going to talk about my journey in a different podcast.

[Pen Holderness]

This is the fourth or fifth person who's told you.

[Kim Holderness]

This is like, the fourth or fifth person that tells me I have adhd. And then I got a whole bunch of information about how this actually can help me sleep and how this can. It's helped people with recover from concussions, and there's a lot of children who do it with adhd. And it's just in. My doctor did it after she had a concussion, and she said it was very beneficial. I then I saw the price tag and I was like, oh, damn. So you need like 20 sessions or something. But I was promised really good sleep after that, and I don't sleep. So I left. And my dear husband said, was this an actual doctor doing this? I'm like, well, it has, like, doctor in the title. And so I was like, oh, but this person's not a doctor. And then I looked and like, you don't have to be a medical doctor, but there are. There are, like, licensed therapists that do it. So maybe I'll do that. But I need somebody in this community to tell me, yay or nay that this would work because I'm desperate to sleep.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. Yeah, I get that. So I get that.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. So I don't know.

[Sam (Producer)]

Can I be a fact checker? Just, like, I mean, I want the audience feedback, but I just. Because I know we're comparing these two. EMDR is recommended by the World Health Organization, and therapists have to be trained and qualified to give emdr.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay.

[Sam (Producer)]

The first thing that when you Google neurofeedback. Neurofeedback says research on its effectiveness is mixed.

[Pen Holderness]

Fair enough. Yeah. I mean, it's new, right? And you know, the fact that it wasn't. Maybe he was a doctor in the sense of, like, Dr. Dr. Scholz. He's probably a doctor, too. But, like, someone who works at Dr.

[Guest/Additional Voice]

Scholz has to be real.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay.

[Sleep Number Announcer]

Dr. J.

[Kim Holderness]

Like Dr. J. Yeah. So. But I don't want to disparage this business because it was very, like, the reviews were great. My doctor went and had a great experience. It just was an incredible investment for me. Not. But although I. I will tell, like, at 3 in the morning, I'm like, I'll pay whatever it is to sleep. So if that's one of the things that could help.

[Pen Holderness]

As long as this isn't a company that's preying on people's need to sleep with something that's not.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so I need you guys to de influence me. Oh, God. Sam is. Sam is laughing again.

[Sam (Producer)]

Sorry, I went down. William Matthias Scholl was a real medical doctor. He started as a shoemaker's apprentice and then went to get his MD degree in 1904 and then in 1906 made his company to sell foot care products.

[Pen Holderness]

Okay, this is the part of this section you're gonna have to do an open for this. Penn's sincere apology. And so here's the open for Penn's sincere apology. And we're gonna do a nice tight shot here. I am so sorry to the family and ancestors of Dr. What's his first name, Shoal William Scholl, for even insinuating that he was not a trained medical professional. Your story is an inspiration to all of us. I really, really should check this out before willy nilly throwing out Dr. Scholes as something in air quotes. I am not a doctor, nor will I ever be one. You are a damn American hero. I'm very sorry. We're good.

[Kim Holderness]

Also get some. That. That Dr. Scholl's empire, man. I mean, name another foot insert product ever. That doesn't exist. Yeah, that doesn't exist.

[Pen Holderness]

I'm sure there is one.

[Simpsons Clip (Kent Brockman)]

Get.

[Kim Holderness]

Get that bag. Dr. Scholz, get that bag. Live your dreams, kids. Okay, should we move on to the next question?

[Pen Holderness]

I mean, we've definitely hammered this one out.

[Kim Holderness]

When you send in your feedback about different wellness hacks and things, I also want you to send me the other weird things you try because I will try it.

[Pen Holderness]

That is true. I can confer, confirm that. If you put anything on a comment that says, you should try this.

[Kim Holderness]

I will try.

[Pen Holderness]

It could be called bippity boppity flippity flop.

[Kim Holderness]

I will try it.

[Pen Holderness]

And she will try it. Katie, thank you for sending in this question. How do you keep marital joy alive when times get difficult?

[Kim Holderness]

We don't.

[Pen Holderness]

We have. We have difficulties.

[Kim Holderness]

We don't. Yeah, we don't.

[Pen Holderness]

When. Like when. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that you kind of go into a relationship expecting it to be a bit of a roller coaster. So if there's something that's actually like a downhill landsl slide, it's something that we'll talk about and address, but it's definitely not like sunshines and applesauce. That's not a term all the time.

[Kim Holderness]

So I will also say Laura sent. Our next question. Have you always been this close? Tell us about a marriage crisis you've had so we can feel. Okay. So there's a theme here that people.

[Pen Holderness]

Seem to think that we're perfect and everything's amazing.

[Kim Holderness]

I would say we. I don't think there's an expectation that we're filled with joy all the time.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And I think that removes some pressure from us having to show up and be. I think we. Yeah. Show up with jazz hands every moment, because I don't think there's an expectation that we're perfect. I think there have been moments, even very recently, like, with our daughter leaving, I was mentally very preoccupied, and I don't think I was being a good partner. And I think you brought that to me. And I was. And I. I was willing to hear that. Like, he's like, you're snapping at me. I've. I'm trying to do this, and you're giving me that. And I wasn't showing up as a good partner because it took everything I had to. To just get her out the door. And I was like, okay, thank you for that feedback. Let's get her moved in. And then I promise I'm gonna be better. And so I've tried. I don't know.

[Pen Holderness]

That was a perfect example. Like, that was something that was eating at me, and I was feeling hopeless and also just, like, unloved. Right. And the way that you handled that was perfect. Right.

[Kim Holderness]

Well, I acknowledged. I was like, I am sucking right now.

[Pen Holderness]

You gave me permission to say it. That was the crazy part. Because you're going through so much now. Right. You're going through perimenopause. Newsflash is real. It's. It's. It. I've seen it. I know it has these effects. But on top of that, you know, being a woman losing her daughter, losing. You have been processing it as if you were grieving some sort of loss. Like, she's. She's. You didn't. You know what I mean? Right. I didn't even want to bring it up. And you. I think I just reached, like, an emotional boiling point where I couldn't even talk. Like, I would just kind of shut down. And you were like, what is going on? And I didn't know how to say it, but then when I said it, everything was better because we understood each other. Right?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. And I think what I. My mistake there was. I think you treat the people you love the most the Worst.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, I think we're all guilty of that.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, I truly think that. So I had done the thing where I was trying to keep my head above water, make sure she was in, like, a bright, sunshiny place, make sure our sun was good, getting to whatever he needed to get to. And I was not. Not only was I not prioritizing you, but I would be. I would be snappy. Like, I would just be a b. Like, I. So I wasn't. I. So I have to. So. So that. So that's a marital. I mean, I'm not going to call it crisis. Like, we weren't on the verge of divorce, but it was. It was a time. It was more than one day that we needed to process.

[Pen Holderness]

No, that was a period of time.

[Kim Holderness]

That was a period of time that was very. I say it was just like, a rough time. And we've been through that before.

[Pen Holderness]

You have to make some time for yourself to decompress, Whether you go work out or you do a crossword or whatever that's necessary. But if you can just make a little bit of time for that other person. So it could be five minutes, it could be 15 seconds just to connect and say, hey, I love you and I see you, and you're still my favorite. But I am guilty of not doing even that. Like, even that 15 to 20 seconds every day. And I. That is a shortcoming that will build up. And that's sometimes how times get difficult, too. Like, with no affirmations at all. I think at least once a day, that's important. Like, this podcast is so great because it's a chance for us to connect with each other, right? So if things are difficult, just start a podcast. You don't have to film it. Just, like, have a couple of chairs with a microphone, pretend podcast, come up with a topic and just do a podcast. Everyone else is doing it.

[Kim Holderness]

Honestly, like, play. You know how Play school used to have, like, just. Just. They had, like, construction sets and stuff like that. They should have, like, a fake podcast set.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, my. It's genius. And just what's the company that Play school? Are they the ones that make it? They should build a little stinkers podcaster set right now. Like, why don't they? That's genius. Can we do that?

[Kim Holderness]

No. 10 out of 10 recommend a podcast. And I think people have always asked us, like, do you go on regular date nights? We are just not in our date night era. And we. We work together a lot. And so I think it's the. I think it's been more beneficial if, like, he goes, like last night he went to a hockey game with a friend. You know, like, if we see other people. So we're not. We're not the people you should be asking about that.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

But if we never saw each other and you traveled for work, you're like 100%. Oh, yeah, we're gonna do date night.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So agree.

[Pen Holderness]

We see, although you can't quantify time with someone at work as like, quality time. Like, that's. No, that's the tough part.

[Kim Holderness]

Like, we, we. There are big, major things that we forget to talk about.

[Pen Holderness]

Exactly. So I think we just made everyone feel a lot better by hearing that we are not okay.

[Kim Holderness]

We're okay now.

[Pen Holderness]

That we're not always okay.

[Kim Holderness]

We're not always okay.

[Pen Holderness]

No, we're okay. I think.

[Kim Holderness]

No, we're good now.

[Pen Holderness]

I love you.

[Kim Holderness]

I mostly love you.

[Pen Holderness]

I'm 92% of the time.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you. We love the laugh line so much. We love hearing from you. Not just for the comedy, but for the free therapy we all just got.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

More on this after these words.

[Ben Holderness]

You know, the holiday season means traveling, snacking and disrupted habits. Luckily, having AG1 means that I'm gonna stay with one scoop ahead to support my immune resilience and micronutrition.

[Kim Holderness]

AG1 Next Gen is a daily health drink clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrient gaps.

[Ben Holderness]

One scoop in the morning with 8 to 12 ounces of cold water adds up to whole body health support from 75 plus vitamins, minerals and probiotics and whole foods sourced ingredients.

[Kim Holderness]

Millions of people are recognizing the value of investing in yourself and your well being by starting their morning with AG1.

[Ben Holderness]

I use AG1 every day. I love it. I can confirm I have increased energy and I have better digestion. I also love that AG1 is helping raise the standard with multiple gold standard clinical trials.

[Kim Holderness]

Head to drinkag1.com laughlines to get a free welcome kit with an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 when you first subscribe.

[Ben Holderness]

That's drinkag1.com/laughlines.

[Pen Holderness]

Are you always searching for that one hoodie you'll actually like live in? You know, the one that feels just right on the couch, on a plane, or out on a hike. Well, I found mine with Pakka and now it is the only one I reach for.

[Kim Holderness]

Pakka makes performance apparel from Alpaca fiber, one of the most sustainable natural fibers. Their best selling hoodie is softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, and Breathable.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. This hoodie is built for real life. It is thermoregulating.

[Ben Holderness]

It's odor resistant, durable, and made to last.

[Kim Holderness]

Each one is handcrafted in Peru by artisans who stitch their name into the tag, a personal signature of quality and care.

[Pen Holderness]

I have a pack a hoodie. I can confirm it is lightweight but still cozy. It doesn't stretch out, doesn't pill, and.

[Ben Holderness]

Somehow keeps me warm when it's cold.

[Pen Holderness]

And cool when it's hot.

[Kim Holderness]

Right now, when you order your pack a hoodie, they'll throw in a free pair of their alpaca cruise socks, which might be the only thing better than the hoodie.

[Pen Holderness]

These are seriously next level. They keep your feet dry, they never smell, and on top of that, they are just insanely cozy.

[Ben Holderness]

Plus, have you ever had socks that.

[Pen Holderness]

Come with a lifetime guarantee?

[Ben Holderness]

Pakka dares you to wear these out.

[Pen Holderness]

And if you can, they'll replace them.

[Kim Holderness]

If you've been thinking about leveling up your hoodie game, this is your sign to do it now to grab your.

[Ben Holderness]

Packa hoodie and free pair of alpaca crew socks.

[Pen Holderness]

Head to go pakkaapparel.com laughlines and use that code laughlines.

[Kim Holderness]

That's go.p a k a apparel.com laughlines and enter code laughlines. I have to update you guys on my journey on my road to 50.

[Pen Holderness]

That's a trucker going on the road with you.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. So I turned 50 in five months and I set a year ago. I set some really clear intentions of goals I have reading 50 books, crushing it. It's awesome. One of them that I am failing at miserably is I wanted to do an unassisted pull up. Yeah. Seeing as I can't nail 10 push ups without going to my knees. Lynn is here with some inspiration. I'm on the road to 70. She writes I can now do three pull ups with 16 of my body weight assisted. So yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So she also leg pressed 265 pounds today.

[Pen Holderness]

What amazing.

[Kim Holderness]

This getting old stuff sucks and we have to fight it off like the enemy that it is. The more we do, the more we can do. The less we do, the less we can do. Okay. Lynn, inspiration. You were inspiring me.

[Pen Holderness]

Can I ask you a question to you?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

Because we've brought that, we've brought up the pull up several times.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Pen Holderness]

You are, you are capable of doing so many amazing things that I've. And we've seen it like we've seen you on the Amazing Race. We've seen, you know, We've seen you run a triathlon. Like, everything. Does this pull up represent something bigger for you? Is there something that. Is there something that. Is it something you're afraid of? Is there something that it means that goes beyond just a pull up?

[Kim Holderness]

That is such a good question. Pen. And there's two things I would answer. The first is, I feel like I need to be able to take care of myself. I feel like if this represents a certain amount of strength, if I fall over in the nursing home, I want to be able to stand up. Like, I want to have the ability to take care of myself and, and. And just. And be the type of person who is always strong. The second, and I owe this to my friend Ileana, who we've had in the podcast. She said, I think why you want to do this is you watch the Terminator with Linda Hamilton and you want to be Linda Hamilton, and all the little Gen X girls just want to be Linda Hamilton from the Terminator. And she nailed it.

[Pen Holderness]

Wow.

[Kim Holderness]

I think there's something very Gen X in my brain that saw that as.

[Pen Holderness]

The first Terminator or the second Terminator. The first one.

[Kim Holderness]

The first one she was like, training. Yes, Right.

[Pen Holderness]

Well, no, the second one she was training, maybe.

[Kim Holderness]

Was it the second one?

[Pen Holderness]

Well, the first one, she just happened to come across the robot and she got out.

[Kim Holderness]

That's the second one she was training.

[Pen Holderness]

I mean, she was ripped in the second Terminator.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. So maybe it was the second Terminator.

[Pen Holderness]

Most people know the second Terminator better than the first one.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, so.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So I think somewhere deep in my Gen X soul, that is what the example of, like, a mother is. Right. Because she's like the. The mother of John. John Connor. And so I was like, holy crap, Ileana. I think you're right. Because my daughter's like, why would you want to do a pull up? That's like. But I think seeing GI Jane, seeing Demi Moore do one handed push ups in that movie. Linda Hamilton, Lindell Hamilton. I think there's something in my Gen X and the Presidential Fitness Award. You. I never, ever. I could barely even hang there. So I think it's some Gen X lower T trauma. Never getting the Presidential Fitness Award.

[Pen Holderness]

I got three pull ups. You needed five. Oh, that was one of the worst days of my life because I trained for, like months to try to get pull ups, but I just didn't have the. I didn't have the body mass for it. Like, fifth graders aren't supposed to be able to do five pull ups.

[Kim Holderness]

We are going deep today, guys.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I was so Sad. I remember Ms. Larabee was our coach, and my mom showed up early to watch you. No, no, to pick me up. And she went to check with Ms. Larrabee, and apparently Ms. Larrabee was, like, in half tears. She's like, he got three really good ones and that was it. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Just the stranglehold the Presidential Fitness Award had on kids in the 80s. So I think it's those three things. And so what I need to do is be okay with trying really hard and maybe not getting it, but. But learning a valuable lesson along the way, like every after school special. Right. So I need to. I need to commit to trying hard, even though I may not get it. And I need to realize why I want to do it is from some really deeply rooted fictional characters that I saw and look into.

[Pen Holderness]

Well, Terminator 2 is a top ten movie for me. It was one of my favorites. I absolutely love that that is a touch point in your life right now.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, I saw that and I was like, oh, my God, I want to do that.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh, God, my. I also know for sure that if your life depended on it, you would be doing a pull up in two weeks because I've seen you commit to something and super train for it. It's so interesting that the 50 books, that's a way for you to unwind. The walks, the getting your steps in is a way for you to unwind. The pull ups are not a way for you to unwind. You're not getting any joy out of it. So that's also what makes it difficult.

[Kim Holderness]

And I did. I was, like, on a really consistent path. I printed out a training plan off of.

[Pen Holderness]

Chat. Gbt. Yep.

[Kim Holderness]

And I hurt myself within the first two weeks. I went to. Went too hard.

[Pen Holderness]

Went too hard.

[Kim Holderness]

So, anyway, well, thank. I think this. We went really deep today. Yeah, this is. We uncovered some stuff.

[Pen Holderness]

Yeah. Guys, thank you so much for going down that journey with us. And we're gonna send you out of here. Hopefully the aliens have not taken over by the time you see this.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay. Hit our credits for us.

[Ben Holderness]

I just wanted to say I also.

[Pen Holderness]

Really just enjoyed connecting with you there. Laugh Lines is written and produced by Pen Holderness, Kim Holderness and Ann Marie.

[Ben Holderness]

Tapke with original music by Pen Holderness.

[Pen Holderness]

It is filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by acast. As always, we love to hear from you. So please write to us on the [e-mail] or be like you know you.

[Ben Holderness]

Were as a kid and call us.

[Pen Holderness]

And leave a voicemail on our landline. That number is 323-364-3929. We love the voicemails by the way. We play them all the time. There is no time limit. You can talk as long as you want to. We can edit you down if we need to. So please call and we will talk to you next time on the Laughline.

[Guest/Additional Voice]

Big news. Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones at home or work.

[Pen Holderness]

Wait, we're going on tour?

[Guest/Additional Voice]

Not a tour. We're delivering and setting up custom customers phones so it's easier to upgrade.

[Pen Holderness]

Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road.

[Guest/Additional Voice]

No not a tour bus. It's a regular car we use to deliver and set up customers phones at home or work.

[Ben Holderness]

Are you a groupie on this tour?

[Guest/Additional Voice]

We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour.

[Pen Holderness]

Oh you're definitely a groupie.

[Guest/Additional Voice]

Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery wherever you're at.

[Pen Holderness]

Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] Jennifer.

[Movie Trailer Announcer]

Lawrence and Robert Pattinson star in Die My Love, a ferocious portrait of a woman engulfed by love and madness. Lawrence and Pattinson play a passionate couple who, after moving to an ice isolated house in the country, find their relationship unraveling following the birth of their first child. Vanity Fair hails Lawrence's performance as astonishing and Time calls it the kind of performance you go to the movies for. From director Lynn Ramsey, Die My Love is Only in theaters November 7th.

[Sleep Number Announcer]

Rated R. Why choose a sleep number.

[Movie Trailer Announcer]

Smart bed Can I make my sight softer?

[Pen Holderness]

Can I make my sight firmer?

[Simplisafe Announcer]

Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Announcer]

Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. It's our Black Friday sale. Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base plus free premium delivery. Price is higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today.

[Trusted House Sitters Announcer]

We all love our pets, but we love to travel too and sadly they can't always come along for the ride. Don't stress. Trusted House Sitters connects you with verified sitters who'll stay in your home and care for your pets, all in exchange for a place to stay on their travels. So while you're off exploring your pets, get to stay safe and happy at home, right where they belong. Find a loving in home pet sitter [e-mail].