Surprise... Kim Has ADHD (Part 1)

Summary

Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness

Episode: Surprise... Kim Has ADHD (Part 1)

Release Date: March 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and revealing episode of Laugh Lines, Kim and Penn Holderness share some major personal news: Kim has been recently diagnosed with ADHD at age 49, after years of identifying as a non-ADHDer—even while parenting, partnering, and writing about ADHD with Penn and for their children’s books. They discuss the emotional journey, the denial and stigma especially for adult women, and the overlap of ADHD with anxiety and perimenopause. The episode features honest conversation, humor, and listener messages from others on similar paths. This is Part 1 of a two-part series, with next week’s episode promising an expert guest to dive deeper on ADHD and emotions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kim's ADHD Diagnosis Journey

Timestamp: 04:49 – 08:08

• Kim shares that, after years of therapy and recurring diagnoses of anxiety and OCD, a recent therapist suggested ADHD.
• The diagnostic process was thorough: multiple rounds of screening, interviews about childhood behaviors, and discussions with people who knew her as a child.
• Kim’s sons and husband, Penn, immediately welcomed her to the “ADHD club” in a supportive and humorous way.
• Kim struggled to accept the diagnosis due to:
  • Feeling like a fraud, as she’d written and spoken about ADHD as a supporter, not a “member.”
  • Worrying she might dilute the urgency for those “who really, really need resources and accommodations.”
  • Overlapping symptoms with perimenopause.

Notable Quote:
"I feel like a fraud because I've written... I've told people, 'Hi, I'm Kim. I do not have ADHD. Here's how I attack life as somebody who does not have ADHD.'" — Kim Holderness (06:40)

Women, Denial, and Late Diagnosis of ADHD

Timestamp: 08:27 – 09:57

• Penn reframes Kim’s worries as “classic denials that women have,” pointing out that ADHD is underdiagnosed in women precisely because of such doubts and societal expectations.
• He reassures Kim she’s not a fraud and that her story will resonate with millions of women.

Notable Quote:
"These are classic denials that women have. This is why women aren't diagnosed with ADHD as much as men. And you saying this is so bleeping important." — Penn Holderness (08:29)

Looking Back: Childhood Markers & Overlapping Diagnoses

Timestamp: 10:41 – 14:23

• The duo discusses how ADHD must be present from childhood.
• Kim recalls:
  • Needing to re-read pages several times.
  • Feeling slow-to-process, disorganized, and “a huge slob” as a child.
  • High achievement and perfectionism masking underlying ADHD struggles.
  • Emotional flooding, frequent unexplained crying at school.

Notable Quote:
"I was always feeling a little imposter syndrome. I would get good grades, but it was always very, very hard for me to retain and process the information." — Kim Holderness (11:24)

ADHD, Anxiety, Perfectionism, and Emotional Health

Timestamp: 15:08 – 29:05

• Kim discusses the frequent confusion between anxiety/OCD and ADHD, especially in women.
• Describes developing an identity as “the responsible one” as an overcompensation for ADHD-related forgetfulness/sensory overload.
• Kim outlines the differences between:
  • ADHD perfectionism: won’t start unless she can excel, out of fear of emotional fallout from failure.
  • OCD perfectionism: repetitive, ritualistic, fear-driven need for precision.
• Emotional regulation, rejection sensitivity, and “emotional flooding” are key ADHD symptoms for Kim.

Notable Quotes:
"I've developed an entire personality about being the responsible one… I am, like, in my brain, 'don't forget, don't forget, don't forget'..." — Kim Holderness (16:16)
"If I'm bad at something, it causes me physical pain, rejection, sensitive dysphoria." — Kim Holderness (25:50)

Real-Life Red Flags and Coping Strategies

Timestamp: 29:43 – 31:35

• Kim offers examples where her ADHD manifested:
  • Booking plane tickets to the wrong destination.
  • Extreme aversion to paperwork and contracts (Penn handles them).
  • Overpreparing for events.
  • Failure to start activities out of fear of not excelling.
• Penn and Kim describe their complementary coping strategies as a couple and business partners.

Notable Quote:
"Filling out paperwork causes me actual pain, even signing a contract. So Penn does it all for me." — Kim Holderness (29:51)

ADHD in Women: The Research and Perimenopause Overlap

Timestamp: 31:35 – 33:37

• Kim and Penn discuss how ADHD research for women is lagging, and how perimenopause symptoms overlap with and intensify ADHD (e.g. “gas on the fire”).
• Kim notes she’s likely coped/masked for decades, with hormonal changes making symptoms “very exposed.”

Notable Quote:
"If you look at symptoms of perimenopause, it's like the Venn diagram is a circle." — Kim Holderness (31:35)

Embracing the Diagnosis and Moving Forward

Timestamp: 33:37 – 37:13

• Penn enumerates qualities that should’ve tipped them off:
  • Kim's tendency to try new hobbies.
  • Hyperfocus when interested.
  • High capacity for forgiveness after emotional flooding.
  • Exceptional creativity and idea generation.
  • Everyone else in the house has ADHD.
• They discuss “time blindness”—Kim is never late, but always early due to inability to gauge time.

Notable Quotes:
"You have this adorable hobby of trying new hobbies... Like, you love things that are new and exciting." — Penn Holderness (34:00)
"Another thing I have always struggled with is, there's this thing called time blindness." — Kim Holderness (38:06)

Listener Messages

Timestamp: 45:03 – 53:50

• Listeners (Angela, Amy, Mindy, Mary) share their own adult ADHD diagnosis stories, challenges with imposter syndrome, and masking behaviors—many echo Kim’s experience.
• Angela asks if she should disclose ADHD during job interviews; Penn advises yes, but with an emphasis on strengths.
• Many listeners talk about the relief and paradigm shift brought by finally understanding their own brains.

Notable Listener Quote:
"I was first diagnosed with ADHD when I was 45…. My brain sounds like a pachinko machine. So many questions." — Angela (45:10)

Notable Kim Insight:
"There were so many times I felt broken and deficient, and I was like an imposter. Desperately trying to maintain my identity as a smart, talented person. Now I could see that it was just my adhd." — Kim reading Amy’s email (48:29)

Looking Ahead

Timestamp: 38:50, 40:13, 41:28, 53:22

• Next week, Dr. Tamara Rosier will join to address the emotional side of ADHD and the complexities of late diagnosis and masking in women.

Notable Closing Quotes:
"Knowledge... is like the first piece of scaffolding... it gives you a chance to not look in the mirror and say, 'what is wrong with you?' but, 'oh, okay, this is what it is.'” — Penn Holderness (12:49)
"If somebody is going to be diagnosed with ADHD, you need to have them call Penn Holderness because he is going to hype you up." — Kim Holderness (41:04)

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Memorable/Notable Quotes

• “We can't both have this.” – Kim Holderness (03:37, 24:20)
• “Yes, we can.” – Penn Holderness (03:42, 24:21)
• “I was always feeling a little imposter syndrome.” – Kim Holderness (11:24)
• “You're incredibly brave… You're doing all these things with ADHD, not in spite of ADHD.” – Penn Holderness (33:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Kim’s Diagnosis Story: 04:49 – 08:08
• Denial & Stigma in Women: 08:27 – 09:57
• Childhood Markers: 10:41 – 14:23
• Anxiety vs. ADHD Symptoms: 15:08 – 29:05
• Real-life ADHD “Red Flags”: 29:43 – 31:35
• ADHD Research & Perimenopause: 31:35 – 33:37
• Positive ADHD Traits & Coping: 33:37 – 37:13
• Time Blindness & Masking: 38:06 – 39:50
• Listener Messages: 45:03 – 53:50
• Next Episode Preview: 38:50, 40:13, 41:28

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Overall Tone

Warm, humorous, candid, and empathetic. The conversation is open about struggle, but consistently hopeful and positive—celebrating the diverse strengths of ADHD while acknowledging its real-world complications, especially for women.

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Useful for:

• Anyone considering or experiencing a late ADHD diagnosis, especially women.
• Listeners interested in the overlap between ADHD, anxiety, perfectionism, and perimenopause.
• Partners, friends, or parents looking to understand loved ones with ADHD.
• Fans of the Holderness Family seeking more behind-the-scenes insight.

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Next Episode Teaser:
Part 2 will feature Dr. Tamara Rosier discussing time distortion, emotional regulation, and practical strategies for thriving with ADHD—especially for women.

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Contact/Feedback:

• Leave a voicemail at 323-364-3929
• Email: [e-mail]

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Transcript

[Kim Holderness]

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[Penn Holderness]

Okay, so Bare Faced sells one of

[Ann Marie Tapke]

those things Kim was talking about every three minutes. So you know they are that good.

[Kim Holderness]

I love the way they make my skin look. Fewer clogged pores, my skin smoother, clearer, and I just have this healthy glow.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, you do.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

They're. They're gentle enough for daily use, but effective enough that you'll see a difference within two weeks.

[Kim Holderness]

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[Ann Marie Tapke]

With over 250,000 customers, more than 2 million orders and a 90% returning customer rate, the results speak for themselves.

[Kim Holderness]

If you want to see results and find a skincare routine you can actually stick to, this is where I recommend starting. Head to barefaced.com and use code holderness for 15 off at checkout plus free shipping.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

That's code holderness for 15 off plus free shipping shipping.

[Kim Holderness]

Bare faced, Less steps, Better skin. This episode is sponsored by gab.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

As we know, the youth mental health crisis is all over the news and we know that social media is a huge driving factor.

[Kim Holderness]

Did you know the US Surgeon General warns that kids who spend more than three hours a day online are twice as likely to have depression and anxiety?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, we are huge advocates for prioritizing

[Ann Marie Tapke]

mental health and that includes monitoring the time that we and our kids spend in front of devices.

[Kim Holderness]

I personally keep my phone out of the bedroom at night so I don't spend hours mil mindlessly scrolling rather than getting a good night's sleep.

[Penn Holderness]

Here's the good news though.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

A company called GAB has solved that problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is tech and steps.

[Kim Holderness]

Tech and Steps works by providing kids safe phones and watches tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

From GPS tracking enabled watches for young kids to increased features and parent enabled apps on the phones for tweens and teens. Each device grows with your child.

[Kim Holderness]

Bottom line, you don't have to give your kids a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected safely.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Use our code to get the best deal on something that'll make parenting easier and give you some peace of mind. Visit gab.com holderness and use that code

[Penn Holderness]

Holderness for a special offer that's g

[Kim Holderness]

a b b.com Holderness this episode is

[Ann Marie Tapke]

brought to you by Pura.

[Kim Holderness]

Pura is the smart home fragrance brand redefining how people scent their homes.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Their sleek app controlled diffusers pair with premium clean and safe fragrances to deliver a completely customizable scent experience. From intensity levels to scent schedules.

[Kim Holderness]

And right on schedule, spring has sprung. And spring brings more light, more movement and a little more possibility.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

With Pura's spring collection, you can layer in scents inspired by places you love, like fresh air, florals in bloom, sun warmed citrus, all of that right at home.

[Kim Holderness]

For a limited time, get a free Pura plus diffuser when you subscribe to 2 cents for 12 months.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Designed for larger spaces, designed to transform how they feel.

[Kim Holderness]

Shop the spring collection now at Pura. The alarm bells were going off, but because I'm a woman and I was told, like, oh, you're just a little anxious. Like it just never even came up that that could be adhd.

[Penn Holderness]

There are some things that come with that brain and I've got to remind you and everyone who has it, those things make you the person that you are and it's a great person.

[Kim Holderness]

If somebody is going to be diagnosed with adhd, you need to have them call Penholderness because he is going to hype you up.

[Penn Holderness]

The thing that you said to me that I'll never forget was, we can't both have this.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

I remember saying back, yes, we can.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Yeah, we get older every day, got more wrinkles.

[Kim Holderness]

That's okay.

[Angela]

Yeah, we're laughing.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we got.

[Kim Holderness]

Hi, everybody. I'm Kim Holderness.

[Penn Holderness]

And I'm Penn Holderness. And boy, did you pick a good laugh lines to click on. We're so glad you're here.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

So if you've ever had someone in

[Penn Holderness]

your family get diagnosed with ADHD and thought, hmm, that sounds like it might be me.

[Kim Holderness]

No.

[Penn Holderness]

Maybe. No, you're in the right place.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. So we're going to kick off a two part episode this week, just Pen and I yapping, uncovering some things. Next week we're going to have an expert talking about the emotional side of adhd. I don't know why I'm so emotional.

[Penn Holderness]

I do. And I think it's okay. Like, this is. So I'm gonna lay out here for a bit because this is very important to hear from you here.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And this is a journey that seems like it hasn't been taking too long, but it's been a pretty long journey.

[Kim Holderness]

So I'm an adult Woman, I'm about to turn 50 and late last year. You know, I love my therapy, and I. You know, I've been diagnosed with anxiety and ocd, like, many times throughout my life. Any new therapist? Any new psychiatrist, like, that's what we come up with. I went to see a new therapist, and we were, you know, walking through the whole, you know, whole screenings and all this stuff, and she's like, hey, so, like, you're adhd? And I was like, no, I don't have adhd. And she's like, well, let's see about that. So I did rounds of screening. Like, it's pretty intense, the rounds of screening and all the tests and all the thing. And I have been diagnosed with adhd. This episode is sponsored by Cotton L or whatever, insert name of toilet paper roll. I went through the process, the evaluations, the tests, the appointments. I did, like, the whole thing. And I called Penn after, like, the final appointment where, like, she does, like, the unveiling.

[Penn Holderness]

Was it like an HGTV show?

[Kim Holderness]

No. Move that bus.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And I called Penn, and he had me on speakerphone with bc, and I was like, hey, so boys. And my boys. Both my boys have adhd. I'm like, so apparently I have adhd. And they were so sweet, and they yelled like, welcome to the club. And PC was so excited, and he kept on saying, I knew it. I think the reason I'm struggling with this, and even I've continued therapy, and I. I have not wanted to, like, announce it or talk about it, because there's three reasons, and I'm gonna talk about it today. One, I feel like a fraud because I've written. I've gone in stages to talk about. I. I. We have now our second children's book, so three books in which I have told people, hi, I'm Kim. I do not have adhd. Here is how I attack life with how I partner and parent people with adhd. As somebody who does not have adhd. Second is, I don't want to dilute the diagnosis for people who really, really need resources and accommodations, because let me tell you, as a parent of a kid with adhd, it is hard sometimes to get people to pay attention because there's no crutches. There's no, you know, there's no, like, visible illness. So to get people to believe that this is a brain difference that requires some accommodations is very hard. So just to be, like, another person with adhd, I just, like, don't want to dilute it. And third, I'm in wild stages of perimenopause. And that is so overlapping. We did the work of, like, going back to my childhood, talking to people from my childhood. Like, we did the whole screening because this has to exist over your lifetime. And we did, in fact, see some raging signs in, like, child, teens, 20s. But also, like, I can hear people out there like, oh, it's just perimenopause. So, like, those are the three reasons why, like, I'm, like, it's been hard for me to kind of come clean about it.

[Penn Holderness]

Number one, you feel like a fraud. Number two, you are concerned about taking up space from other people who actually you think might need it more. Right. And number three, you're in menopause and aren't sure if that's just what it is.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. May I?

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

These are classic denial. I don't. It's not a bad thing, but these are the classic denials that women have. This is why women aren't diagnosed with ADHD as much as men. And you saying this is so bleeping important, I can't even tell you how powerful what you just did is. I'm going to tell you, if you don't mind, some reasons why you're not a fraud. Okay? Just because you helped us write a book about how to support someone with ADHD doesn't mean you didn't do it. You did. There are people out there, quite a few, who are ADHDers, who have to support ADHDers. Turns out I've been doing that, too.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, no, true, Right?

[Penn Holderness]

Like, turns out we've been supporting each other.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

It takes a little more work for

[Penn Holderness]

someone who has ADHD to support someone with adhd, but it doesn't change the rules. Right. You could not be less of a fraud because there are, I believe, millions of grown women right now who are going through the exact same thing you are. And we've seen it, right? We've gone on these book tours and we've seen these women in tears saying, I have been doing this. I've been helping. I've been building the scaffolding, and it turns out I've got it, too. And some of those tears are, like, it. It's. It's emotional, right? Adhd. You're emotional. But also this, like, fear of, like, helplessness, like, oh, my God, what are we going to do now?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Do you think that you can locate any of those emotions inside of you right now?

[Kim Holderness]

Absolutely. And I mean, there's also the question of, like, well, why is it even important to know? Right? Like, what what does it matter? I don't need accommodations in school or work, like I. So why is it important to know? I. I think going back, I think the first time I went to a therapist in college, I was just having a very rough time. And in hindsight, it's because I was so overwhelmed. Everything was taking. So. I got very good grades. I was very high achieving. Everything took me so freaking long. And I was very. I was overwhelmed all the time. And, like, well, that's just anxiety.

[Penn Holderness]

So, like, let's go back. I wasn't in the room when you were diagnosed, obviously. What were the childhood markers? What were the signs that. That this was, in fact something that's been going on for longer than just perimenopause?

[Kim Holderness]

Part of the diagnostic process is you look back in childhood because this has to be. This is not something you develop in adulthood. It's not contagious. There are. I think we all, as a population, have a much short attention span because of TikTok. But this is across, like, right?

[Penn Holderness]

Otherwise, it's just an acquired attention.

[Kim Holderness]

Right?

[Penn Holderness]

Like, I like. I think there's something called acquired attention

[Kim Holderness]

deficit, which I probably.

[Penn Holderness]

Like staring at your phone.

[Kim Holderness]

It's.

[Penn Holderness]

There's no question that's exacerbating stuff, but.

[Kim Holderness]

So as a child, I. It took me reading a page like four or five times to retain the information, and I just sort of thought that was normal. So I was always feeling a little imposter syndrome. I would get good grades, but it was always very, very hard for me to retain and process the information. So it was, like, very slow to process things. But again, I was like, oh, that's just the way my brain works. I was a huge slob. Like. Like, needed quarantine. Like my. My sweet Nana, my grandmother. My mother's whole take on this was like, close your door. As long as I don't have to see it. She had a very different way of raising, which was great, but it was like a health hazard. How disgusting. I was a huge slob. I was very disorganized. And I've told you that before, and I don't know if you believed that, because the way I kind of have to operate now, everything needs to be very like for my brain to function. But before even dating you, I was the very type B person. If I ever dated anybody in the fr. In friendships, I am type B. I don't know where we're going. Just tell me where I'm going, who I can venmo. Like, I am the type B person.

[Penn Holderness]

And then you married, and then I married you, the most type B person on the planet and it made it tough for you to, to like, we

[Kim Holderness]

can't both be type B.

[Penn Holderness]

Exactly. And I'm sorry about that. The first thing that you said when you started talking was, I don't know if it makes any sense for me, like, why do I even need to know this? Just knowing this now helps explain your relationships with people that you love. And I think that's super important. The reason we wrote the book together was because learning and discovering these things about my brain and now your brain as well, give you agency and give you. It's like the first piece of scaffolding is the knowledge because it gives you a chance to like not take a look in the mirror and say, what is wrong with you? Oh, okay, this is what it is.

[Kim Holderness]

I was able to like offer my 9 year old self some grace too.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. Yeah. How did that feel?

[Kim Holderness]

Like I just need to like get this out of my brain. But it's like, oh, but wasn't every kid overwhelmed? Like, didn't it, wasn't it so hard for every kid to do this? Like, but looking back, it was like emotionally, like, I think that the emotional side of adhd, which is like what we're, you know, dealing with, that is where I would flood.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And I would get very, I'd get very upset. I wouldn't, I wouldn't. I wasn't hyperactive and I was like a good rule following girl. I can't tell you how many times I went to the bathroom in elementary through high school, I went to a bathroom stall just to cry for like get a 10 minute cry and then like get my act together.

[Penn Holderness]

That's it.

[Kim Holderness]

But again, I'm like, doesn't everybody do that?

[Penn Holderness]

This is like a fun tightrope for me. My wife, who I adore, like when I talk about her and things that are going on in her life and body. I don't want to, I don't want to give you added anxiety, but I'm going to give an example of something that's happened recently. You know, you've had emotionally flooded moments around me, not directed at me, but it's very overwhelming. And I've always put that in the bucket of, oh, my wife has anxiety. Right, right. And so we're now at a point where anxiety is a component of adhd. Maybe it's more of that executive functioning emotional flooding that comes with ADHD than actual classic anxiety.

[Kim Holderness]

So what I have learned, and part of the screening actually was asking Questions about, like, am I afraid something bad will happen? Am I afraid? Like, am I. Because I was diagnosed with a ocd. Like, if I don't do this, something bad will happen. I'm like, no. And you know, like. And she, you know, she would dig. She gave the test to me. I didn't fill it out. Like, she actually, like, asked me the prompts and like, really dug in there. So if I'm nervous, for example, I just. Me, I went to go visit Lola this weekend and I was, I called you. I'm like, I am. So I just. I feel like I'm forgetting something. I just feel like I'm. I feel like I. So I wasn't afraid the plane was going to fall out of the sky. I wasn't afraid of missing something. I was just constantly afraid I was forgetting something. Like, something didn't feel right. And so that is not. I mean, I think we're splitting hairs a little bit. But that's not like anxiety, Anxiety, from what I understand, or ocd. It's, it's. That's fear based about, like, something that may happen or will happen if I don't do something. Whereas oc, like ADHD is overcompensating. I have programmed myself. I've developed a per. An entire personality about being the responsible one. And so because I am, like, in my brain, don't forget, don't forget, don't forget that has caused these emotions and this anxiousness.

[Penn Holderness]

All right, perfect. So I would love to kind of segue into number two, your thought. Number two. First of all, I just want to say again, not only you're not a fraud, you're an inspiration, you're incredibly brave. I could tell that that was hard for you to get out and you got it out. And it's going to mean a lot to a lot of people, to the tens of twenties of people who are listening to this, or it may even be, stop.

[Kim Holderness]

We work hard.

[Penn Holderness]

We work hard to a lot of people. Number two was your concern that you were pulling resources and maybe. Do I even need to know this? And is this really, like, is. Are we over diagnosing ourselves with ADHD as a, as a society? Right. That's a totally valid question to ask. Let me start by saying this. People can be anxious and not have anxiety. People can drink wine and not be alcoholics. Right. People can be forgetful and not have adhd. That's why the line is drawn clinically. And this is where doctors are very important. And when it comes to diagnosing this and we can't do it. Right. It's when it becomes something that affects you adversely to the point that you are having trouble functioning in the world around you. Right. And in some cases, affecting others as well. So I think that a lot of the naysayers are like, well, I forgot that. And I don't have adhd.

[Kim Holderness]

No.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, no, it's. When you have it, it is a actual lack of dopamine in your prefrontal cortex that keeps you from being able to executive function normally. It's not a deficit of attention bad name it. And that's like, you get that, right?

[Kim Holderness]

Well, listen, if. As long as we're telling the truth here, we're doing years of research for ADHD is awesome. And everything I was reading, I'm like, but I have that. Which made you feel like, okay, so I was even. Because Penn would be writing about something about how the brain boun around and like, you know, because I. I notice everything. I feel everything. Which is like, why the clutter is, like, so bothering. Because, like, I noticed the tag on the back of my shirt. Like, I. I'm highly sensitive to sound like I notice freaking everything. And that was like, you know, they were talking about an ADHD is awesome. I'm like, but I feel that. So I don't know if that's a real ADHD symptom. Like, the alarm bells were going off, but because I'm a woman and I was told, like, oh, you're just a little anxious. Like, I. It just never even came up that that could be adhd. More on this after these words. This episode is sponsored by Better Help.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

You know, as March includes International Women's Day, we are taking a moment to celebrate women and all that they carry at work in relationships, in families, and the many roles they hold every single single day.

[Kim Holderness]

I know Penn and I are lucky enough to have moms who are so incredible in every single way.

[Penn Holderness]

And of course, my wife is a rock star mom. She's a rock star co worker. She is a rock star partner.

[Kim Holderness]

Thanks. I love. I love this.

[Penn Holderness]

You are.

[Kim Holderness]

Keep it going.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Between. Okay. Between caring for others and managing unseen responsibilities, women's emotional well being can easily be overlooked.

[Kim Holderness]

Therapy can help create balance, set healthy boundaries and support overall well being for everyone.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally.

[Kim Holderness]

BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed

[Ann Marie Tapke]

in the US Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy.

[Kim Holderness]

Sign up and get 10 [e-mail] Holderness that's better.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

H E L P.com Holderness these days

[Kim Holderness]

I'm all about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it's not well made and versatile, then it's not worth it to me.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

That is why we love Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense.

[Kim Holderness]

Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100 European linen, 100 silk and organic cotton poplin.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories

[Penn Holderness]

and cuts out the middlemen.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

You're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality clothing.

[Kim Holderness]

Everything Quince makes is built to hold up season after season. The stitching, the fit, the fabrics. These are pieces you'll reach for over and over again.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Quinn's clothing is consistently rated 4.5 to

[Penn Holderness]

5 stars by thousands of customers.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Real people wearing these pieces every day

[Penn Holderness]

and actually loving them.

[Kim Holderness]

The Quint cotton cashmere sweater has become my go to. It's light enough for layering but still feels lux. And it doesn't cost what I thought quality cashmere wood.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

So stop waiting to build the wardrobe you actually want. You don't need a closet full of options. You need pieces that work right now.

[Kim Holderness]

Go to quince.comholderness for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Don't keep settling. For clothes that don't last, go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Holderness for free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Kim Holderness]

Quince.com.

[Penn Holderness]

While we're being honest, you are a type one enneagram, which is I love about you. Which the funnest thing about people who are type 1 enneagrams is they don't believe that they're type 1 enneagrams because someone has told them that. I think that the term that I saw was perfectionist. I don't love that word. But you are a very, very hard worker and you like things to be ideal and sometimes that makes it difficult for you to start things and sometimes that overwhelms you. And so you don't like to be told that you have something you so Kim, in 2019, I think you took some sort of assessment online. You didn't tell me about it and I found it in a drawer about two months later and it said Kim de Holderness. And underneath it was like I Don't. It was like a picture of a brain and said. And attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It wasn't something that I like if you put it in a drawer. I wasn't going to tell anybody else this, but I came to you and I said, kim, because, you know, like, I've got it. Like, it's showing here, this diagnosis. And your response was. It was just an online thing. Like, that's. They're. They're wrong. I'm having a. I was having a rough week when I took it. I don't have this. And so I put it back in the drawer. But I had it okay in my mind for quite some time.

[Kim Holderness]

We were writing. ADHD was awesome.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

And I. Everything was. Checking a box for me, but I was being told, it's anxiety, it's your ocd, it's perimenopause. I was like, well, because there's a million resources. First of all, there's no one way to get diagnosed. There's not like a blood test you take. Right. So I went online and I did, like, there's like, three different things you can do kind of like online, these tests. And then you have, like, a virtual appointment with somebody. I paid, like, 49.99, and they emailed me something, and I. I felt like I'm like, that was too easy to get. That's not real. And so I didn't tell you, which. We. Listen, like, you have the log into my email. We don't share. Like, there's nothing. We.

[Penn Holderness]

It was. It was weird finding it in a

[Kim Holderness]

drawer that is like the. The length. That's like the most betrayal, like, betrayed you've ever felt.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. It was wild. Like, I was looking for a checkbook, which is also wild. Like, who writes checks? And when have I ever written one? And. And it was. It was funny that it was actually next to a checkbook. And I was stunned. And I'm. The thing that you said to me that I'll never forget was, we can't both have this.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And I remember saying back, yes, we can. And the book was an issue to you. It's still not an issue to me.

[Kim Holderness]

For the record. Not that I felt like I needed to monetize not having adhd. Right.

[Penn Holderness]

You felt like every other woman that everyone can't have ADHD in here or else the world's gonna explode.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Penn Holderness]

Fair. But it hasn't. I'm not saying that. Like, I wish you'd told me then. I'm glad that you're. I'm Glad that you're saying it now and I'm glad that you've come to grips with it. But, like, that's where you celebrate. You say you've got a cool brain. Look, like good things can happen. Look at us. We've got two microphones and, like, now let's get to work. And, like, let's understand why things are sometimes tough and let's build that scaffolding.

[Kim Holderness]

So the perfectionism part, that really started in my, like, 20s, 30s, and then, like, obviously now, I had no idea that was like a coping strategy of somebody with adhd. And not everybody would think that because there's this, like, you know, like, oh, adhd. They're just like, you know, starting and quitting and start, like. But what happens with me is I want to do a thing, but I'm not going to start the thing unless I can do it really well. Like, I'm not even going to try the thing until I can do it well. Because I can't regulate my emotions if I fail.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And if I'm bad at something, it causes me physical pain, rejection, sensitive dysphoria. So I. I will say that. But when I do lean in, I get almost like, if I'm going to try something, and I have, like, some examples here, I get near obsessive with it. Hence the ocd. Right. So I would profoundly over prepare for something. So that is why peop. That's why it was easy to diagnose with adhd. For example, the Amazing Race call.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, my gosh. We were talking about this this morning.

[Paige Desorbo]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So the Amazing Race call. Not recently, but, like, originally they called and I'm like, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. The reason I didn't want to do. Which is fair, by the way, is that I would look, I would be on television being bad at something.

[Penn Holderness]

You mean, like looking at a clue and not. Not realizing that it's a clue and staring at it for 45 minutes? Because that's what I did. Sorry, go ahead.

[Kim Holderness]

By the way, we each took turns being, like, doing stupid things.

[Penn Holderness]

No one pitches a no hitter on the Amazing.

[Kim Holderness]

Right. And when there was a moment and it was the leg, we were in Switzerland and I had just done that, like, awful bungee jump. But then my brain. I'm sorry, I think I had a concussion. I. I was supposed to navigate us. That was my job. And I was pretty good at it to the next place. I got us so turned around and so lost. Like, I was. I Was flooding. You had to get out. You had to get the directions. You had to write it down. Like you. I was. I was flooding. We ended up finishing third, which is like, go us. I.

[Penn Holderness]

You were not happy.

[Kim Holderness]

Was. So I. I was. And you could only go back to the hotel room. And I remember so distinctly because we were in Switzerland, but we're near Italy, so we got this, like, amazing pizza that they brought to us. And like, I was pacing back and forth, pacing back and forth. And I was so, like, I was so embarrassed that I screwed up so badly. Like, just me. If you and I had screwed up together, I think we. I would have been fine. But it was just me. And so that's. So. That is why I was like, oh, okay, is this like, adhd? So here's the example. So ADHD perfectionism, if I can't do it perfectly, I won't start. And it's often tied to shame or fear of messing up. OCD perfectionism, if it does. Isn't done exactly right, something bad will happen. So it's us. It's often tied to, like, like, repetitive things or catastrophic fear. So adhd, emotional regulation. There's like, big reactions. Rejection, sensitivity, and flooding that passes ocd, that emotional experience. The difference is an anxiety spike from intrusive thought, temporary relief after a compulsion or. And then the anxiety returns. So it's kind of like a circle. So I. I don't have any compulsive behaviors. Like, Like, I don't have to, like, knock seven times before I leave a room. I just sort of like the intrusive thought part. The. I do have. I do have those, but my. That's where I think that it's probably tough to unravel and maybe not even necessarily, but, like, the perfectionism part really hit.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

So people, let's.

[Penn Holderness]

Let's go back to what. What I said before. People have anxiety without having anxiety disorder. People have obsession compulsive obsessive compulsions without having obsessive compulsive disorder.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Penn Holderness]

So this is all very fascinating. You could just have one thing that's causing some of these other, like, behaviors that are part of that one thing, which would be nice.

[Kim Holderness]

Which would be nice. Nice and clean, I think, because you have ADHD very proudly, which is great. And it's been great that they assume I'm very type A as I've. I'm not.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

So I have some examples of like. Like some red flags that, like, we should have known.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, I have some too.

[Kim Holderness]

I booked plane tickets for our entire family to go to the wrong city. We showed up and we were supposed to go to Florida and I booked four tickets to New York. Filling out paperwork causes me actual pain, even signing a contract. So Penn does it all for me.

[Penn Holderness]

I've done that.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, he does it all for me.

[Penn Holderness]

So we, like, we have coped in a lot of ways with this. I also do most of the plane tickets now.

[Kim Holderness]

Yes, I over prepare for things to avoid mistakes. So like I, I just, I'm an over preparer. And that's where I think swinging anxiety comes. I experience physical pain even when given neutral feedback from like, simply not being good at something. There are so many things that I don't start simply because I just don't think they're gonna be. I just don't start them. Like I, I, I don't.

[Penn Holderness]

And it's not just that enneagram one part. It's that it's like this perfect cocktail of that mixed with like the actual RSD that people frequently have when they've got adhd.

[Kim Holderness]

So research on girls and women with ADHD is very slowly catching up. We are learning so much more. I think one of the biggest symptoms that we're learning more about is just the emotions of ADHD and how that's kind of a symptom of adhd. I think there are a lot of women out there that have just been. Not just, but they've been given an anxiety diagnosis and possibly medication for anxiety and they don't feel like they're feeling any better. And I think that might be because they have ADHD and maybe they need a different medication or different processes finally, just to get to the perimenopause part. If you look at the symptoms of perimenopause, it's like the Venn diagram is a circle. Right.

[Penn Holderness]

Well, it's all based on executive functioning and regulating your emotions.

[Kim Holderness]

Right. And I think for women with ADHD going through perimenopause, it's gas on the fire. I've never been through perimenopause before, so I don't know. But maybe it's why my perimenopause like journey has felt so extreme is because I was, I was coping. I was like masking, I was making it all work. I was, you know, had 20 different lists in 20 different places. And then the hormones come, or actually the hormones leave and I'm just very exposed.

[Penn Holderness]

So are you still feeling like this could just be perimenopause?

[Kim Holderness]

No, because if, if I look back my life, my early 20s, so a lot of disorganization and overwhelm was like my school and college years. I think my 20s, when I didn't have, like, school to tell me exactly what to do. I felt the perfectionism part really kept it kick in. That really did kind of swallow my life.

[Penn Holderness]

Just some, like, further proof that it's not just perimenopause, not just your childhood. But when do you think it, like those symptoms really started kicking in? Give me a year. Like when you start perimenopause. When did it start? When did you. When did it become something that was becoming a real distraction?

[Kim Holderness]

Probably like three years.

[Penn Holderness]

Three years ago. When did you hide that thing in the drawer?

[Kim Holderness]

Before then?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. Before then was the thing in the drawer. Listen, we've gone through those three things. I need to say this again. You're incredibly brave. You're incredibly high functioning for someone who has this. So that's a gift, right? Like, you've gotten this far and you're extraordinarily successful. You have a happy family. You're a great mom. Like, you're doing all of these things with adhd, not in spite of adhd.

[Kim Holderness]

Right.

[Penn Holderness]

There are some things that come with that brain, and I've got to remind you and everyone who has it, those things make you the person that you are. And it's a great person.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you.

[Penn Holderness]

I have my own list of reasons I should have known you had adhd. And they're mostly positive. Okay. Are you ready?

[Kim Holderness]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

You have this adorable hobby of trying new hobbies.

[Kim Holderness]

But doesn't everybody do that?

[Penn Holderness]

Like, you love things that are new and exciting.

[Kim Holderness]

I do.

[Penn Holderness]

You have this new chessboard that's been. It's become the center of our evening.

[Kim Holderness]

I know. I got it. I got it. I want to learn how to play chess.

[Penn Holderness]

And that was after you had another hobby. And another hobby.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

And it's like you're exposing yourself to

[Penn Holderness]

all of these new, fun neural pathways. And that's people with adhd, baby.

[Kim Holderness]

So I will say this. And so I. It makes me sympathetic to my son who, like, tries a lot of things, but he's a teenager, right? He tries all things in school. Stop. What happens is this. I'm new at something like mahjong, which I'll still play mahjong, or chess. And I'm new. I'm new with everybody. And then I start. Everybody else starts to advance, and maybe I'm not advancing fast enough. Like, I'm not winning is. So I stop because I'm not good enough.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, so you're you're still like, we're going to reframe this.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

You're still. Still dwelling on the bad stuff.

[Penn Holderness]

It's not a bad thing to try a bunch of new stuff.

[Kim Holderness]

Exactly.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

So that part is you're going to be proficient at a lot of stuff.

[Penn Holderness]

You don't have to be an expert at any.

[Kim Holderness]

But I'll know how the pawn moves.

[Penn Holderness]

Exactly. You taught me something called on pass on. On pass on. Okay, that was number one. Number two, you've got hyperfocus. And I should have known that when, like, two days ago you took a Sudafed and basically wrote an entire book. You accidentally gave yourself something adjacent to ADHD medication.

[Kim Holderness]

I was like, maybe I do have adhd.

[Penn Holderness]

We have this thing where, like, it's like, document shared with you, and it just means that someone is working on something. And my phone was like, I was

[Kim Holderness]

writing a lot on Monday.

[Penn Holderness]

You wrote. You wrote War and Peace on Sudafed.

[Kim Holderness]

I was prolific on. Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Sudafed is like, basically like math, right? Like, it's.

[Kim Holderness]

It's regulated. Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Whatever it was.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

You've got hyperfocus, and we should have known.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Okay, so number three is you don't

[Penn Holderness]

give yourself enough credit for this, but you are a very forgiving person. You're able to experience intense hurt when it comes to someone in a relationship, including me, including members of your family, and then you are able to move on. And that is a distinct trait of people with adhd. You're forgiving.

[Kim Holderness]

I am.

[Penn Holderness]

You're more forgiving than you give yourself.

[Kim Holderness]

I am forgiving. Especially for, like. I am forgiving. I am.

[Penn Holderness]

You are. And that's like, if you look it up because of our emotional flooding and then ability to kind of flip that on its head, once something else shiny and new comes by, it kind of makes us forgiving people. Number four, the way that you get stimulus and the way that you find ideas is the textbook example of how ADHD does it. And it's why we're so creative. You're very creative because you do the same thing, right?

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Like, when you have ideas, they come

[Penn Holderness]

at you from all directions at all times. I've seen it in action, and I don't know if you get enough credit on this channel for the ideas that you come up with, but you are exceptional at it. And that is also a trait that comes with all those bad things we were just talking about with adhd. That's one of the really good things. And that's why we have two microphones. That's why we can afford two microphones and a mixer and three, one, two,

[Kim Holderness]

three cameras, but only no iPads.

[Penn Holderness]

No iPads.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

So that's number four.

[Penn Holderness]

You've got that trait, and it is a wonderful trait, and it's why you're so good at your job.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

And number five, the reason we should have known you have adhd.

[Penn Holderness]

Drumroll. This is like David Letterman. He always does a drum roll for his last one.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Everyone else in the house has it. And you didn't wear a mask, so

[Penn Holderness]

you were bound to catch it eventually.

[Kim Holderness]

It's not contagious.

[Penn Holderness]

That was a joke.

[Kim Holderness]

Well, but again, mine looks different than yours.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And mine looked. If my ADHD looks different for my son, actually, he and I are more, like, in, like, the emotional side. And that was another indicator when I was filling out all the paperwork for him four years ago, I was like, this looks an awful lot like what my brain is like.

[Penn Holderness]

I know that you can't get it from breathing. It was a fun, fun joke we were going for.

[Kim Holderness]

Sorry. Okay. Another thing that I have always struggled with is, like, there's this thing called time blindness with adhd. And, like, famously. Oh, like adhd. I'm so adhd. I'm late. I am never late. I'm obsessively early because I have this whole time distortion thing. I don't know. And I cannot program in my head how long things take. I've been drying my hair my entire life. I still. I don't know how long it takes to dry my hair. It's like, not long. And so I. I think I timed it one time for a video, and I forget even what that is. Like, I don't. That's the reason. I just. I always ask what time we should leave for the airport because I literally don't know. I don't know how long things take.

[Penn Holderness]

I cannot wait for the next episode of Laugh Lines because we're gonna bring in Dr. Tamara Rozier, and she is going to talk about time distortion. She's gonna talk about all of the emotions that come with it, and she's gonna. Like, She's.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

I feel like she's gonna give you

[Penn Holderness]

a lot of compliments because you have by yourself, with help from no one, because no one knew you had it, the scaffolding that you have built.

[Kim Holderness]

But can I say, though, it's exhausting.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes, you can say that.

[Kim Holderness]

I know I am more introverted. Like, I took the Myers Briggs test, and I'm, like, right on the line between introvert and extrovert. And I can be Very extroverted. But I've always been like, oh, the reason I'm so exhausted at the end of the day is I'm an introvert and there's people all around and whatever there is, like, there may be, like, it may be because I am having to work so hard to get crap done that I'm just, like, so drained. Like, I'm so tired. And that's not just perimenopause, you know,

[Penn Holderness]

what if this new realization, what if this energizes you? What if this, like, what if the knowledge of what's going on brings you, like, new, a new sense of peace, a new sense of understanding that, that, that exhaustion is at least abated a little bit? Like, this is just a theory.

[Kim Holderness]

I, I don't know what this means for me, quite honestly. Like, I've still been doing the work with my therapist, but I don't know, like, I don't know what to do with all this, to be quite honest.

[Penn Holderness]

Well, I'm glad we've got someone, not me, coming to talk to you. I like you. Gu. Husband can only say so much to a wife and vice versa, that, that they're going to fully take and sometimes it's easier to, to get it from another person.

[Kim Holderness]

No, you, I have to say, you've been great. And, and you are. If somebody is going to be diagnosed with adhd, you need to have them call Pen holderness because he is going to hype you up. He's going to give you all of the good, beautiful things that happen with your brain, like calling. I have to say, like, it was it, it still is, like, one of my favorite, like, moments as a mom, like, PC, like, hyping me up.

[Penn Holderness]

Well, we did it to him.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. And so it was, it was. I'm in the perfect family for this. And it's not, it's not shame I'm feeling. It's, it's like, I don't know. I, I, I still can't, I'm having trouble putting the language of, like, what it is I'm feeling.

[Penn Holderness]

That's why we're bringing in a really smart doctor. She's like a shaman. Have you ever heard her talk?

[Ann Marie Tapke]

So she's, she is. No, like, her books are great, but,

[Penn Holderness]

like, when she talks, it's like Lisa d' Amore level. Like, oh, oh, you're good at this.

[Kim Holderness]

And that's our next episode. But first, we actually love getting your messages. And I, I would say, and Anne Marie pointed this out, we get about two a day from middle aged women who've just been diagnosed with ADHD because of ADHD is awesome. More on this after these words.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Are you ready to come out of your winter slump and reset for the season ahead? Prioritizing your health doesn't have to be complicated and can make a meaningful difference

[Penn Holderness]

in how you feel.

[Kim Holderness]

AG1 is a daily health drink clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrient gaps.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

You know, most supplements over complicate things with tons of pills and confusing timing. AG1 simplifies your nutrition multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants.

[Penn Holderness]

Antioxidants all in one scoop.

[Kim Holderness]

The superfoods and B vitamins in AG1 provide nutritional support to help you stay steady and consistent.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Yeah, it's a daily immune support that helps you stay at your best. Powered by antioxidants, probiotics and functional mushrooms,

[Kim Holderness]

AG1 Next Gen delivers five strains of clinically studied probiotics that have been shown to support digestion, immune function and alleviate occasional bloating.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

AG1 fits perfectly into my life as I work to feel my best and

[Penn Holderness]

and embrace the season ahead.

[Kim Holderness]

Go to drink ag1.com laughlines to get an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 for free in your AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription. Order only while supplies last.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

That's drinkag1.com laughlines now it's time for

[Kim Holderness]

an ad from MIDI Health, the online experts in menopause and perimenopause.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

If you're wondering if it's a good

[Penn Holderness]

time for you to go to the bathroom or grab a snack, we have

[Ann Marie Tapke]

some things to bear in mind.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, if you had to adjust the thermostat in the last hour, or if elastic waistbands are your new best friend, you should probably stay and listen.

[Penn Holderness]

If you've ever found your keys in the fridge or called your son by

[Ann Marie Tapke]

your dog's name, you should probably stay as well.

[Kim Holderness]

And if you've ever had to change your pajamas three times in one night, then you should definitely stay and learn about MIDI Health.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Midi Health is fighting back against antiquated approaches to treating women in midlife, which includes misdiagnosis telling women it's all in their heads and that the symptoms are

[Penn Holderness]

something they just have to live with.

[Kim Holderness]

MIDI is the only virtual care clinic for women navigating midlife hormonal transition. Created by women for women, MIDI is

[Ann Marie Tapke]

dedicated to changing the way menopause is treated and treatment is personalized to each

[Kim Holderness]

woman's specific needs they're available 247 and services are covered by insurance.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Book your virtual visit [e-mail] that's joinmidi.com

[Paige Desorbo]

hey, it's Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad. Obviously I love Amazon prime and there's so many different reasons why I am obsessed with it. Not only can you see something on Instagram or Tick tock or hear about it on a podcast and think, wow, I need to order that. And then you can order it on prime immediately, but it also just makes your life better because sometimes you forget someone's birthday or a Christmas gift or a flag day gift, I don't know any type of gift. And you can literally get it so fast with Prime. Prime just makes your life easier and it always comes in clutch. Not only is it fast, it's also free delivery. Fast, free delivery. It's on Prime.

[Kim Holderness]

We have some messages here. We're going to read, we're going to play some. We're going to head to the laugh line

[Ann Marie Tapke]

where everyone will find laughter. Call us up and you tell us what's on your mind.

[Angela]

Hi, I'm Angela. I am from Massachusetts. I'm 54 years old and I was first diagnosed with ADHD when I was 45. And that actually came from my autologist who said I wasn't going deaf. I just wasn't listening and maybe I should get my official diagnosis of adhd. And right now my brain sounds like a pachinko machine. So I'm not even sure where I was going with this. But I have so many questions. Like, Penn, if you were hiring somebody and you didn't have adhd, would you want them to tell you they have adhd? It's like I'm in the middle of a job search right now and it's kind of an issue.

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, wow. What a good question.

[Penn Holderness]

So I've been asked this question by a lot of people and the answer is, yes, I would want to know. And if I would want that person to tell the, the person that they're applying for that they had adhd. But they would need to tell them that with a level of command and understanding of what it is.

[Kim Holderness]

Like why that makes you. Why, why that you bring strength to the role.

[Penn Holderness]

And that's one of the toughest things that people, they can't come to grips with, like saying that this, this other type of brain type and perspective is an asset. In our book and in both of our books, our ADHD is awesome. And also our children's book, we bring up a lot of Entrepreneurs who have credited their ADHD for the generation of ideas that no one else had. By the way, it's an awesome question and I hope she does tell them, but I hope when she tells them, she explains that it doesn't mean that you're going to forget all of what's going on and you're.

[Kim Holderness]

And that you.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, no, it means I work on those things. But also what you get are these like force multipliers in other parts of my job.

[Kim Holderness]

I remember at one of our book signings we had a pharmacist and, and she admitted, you know, she's like, I have adhd, but I don't tell anybody because who wants a pharmacist with adhd? But the truth is she was so fascinated by her job and loved her job so much. She was hyper focused on and like

[Penn Holderness]

nearly this is her thing that she

[Kim Holderness]

like her interest based nervous system. Like, she was so hyper focused. Honestly, I was like, no, that's a strength to be able to hyperfocus on what's happening. Here's an email from Amy. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 47. I never considered that I might have ADHD. Never. In fact, a lot of my public identity was around how organized and reliable I was. One morning I was scrolling over coffee when I saw a post on Twitter that said something like, this is your friendly reminder that ADHD can also look like one, being 40 minutes early for everything. Yeah. Two, feeling like you can't do anything all morning because you have an appointment at two. Oh my God, that's so me. And three, perfectionism. Four, extreme anxiety. And five, snapping at people. Yeah, all of those. Like, but, but that's when I go like, oh, but isn't that everybody? Apparently I say that all the time to my therapist and she's like, literally. No, she's like, I do this all day long. And no, not everybody has this. Guys. I felt like it was really controversial when I came to y' all and said like, I love you. I read ADHD is awesome multiple times and I don't relate.

[Penn Holderness]

What? That's okay.

[Kim Holderness]

And I feel like you guys are like, you're different. You are different.

[Penn Holderness]

Just to clarify, Sam, we have a very tight knit group of like four principals in this company and Sam is the only one without ADHD now, or I guess always has been. But now we're realizing that she's the only one without it.

[Kim Holderness]

I know. And we're like, we're trying to. We love you no matter what, Sam. She had to come out as not adhd. So to wrap up her email, there were so many times I felt broken and deficient, and I was like an imposter. The imposter syndrome. Desperately trying to maintain my identity as a smart, talented person. Now I could see that it was just my adhd. It was a huge paradigm shift for me in terms of identity to even consider an ADHD diagnosis. But it was life changing. I think that's the word I was looking for in my school. Like, getting through school because I was high achieving, but I felt like an imposter because I didn't, like. It was so hard for me. I just felt like an imposter.

[Penn Holderness]

I've heard you use that term multiple times.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, like, I had good grades, but I never felt smart.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, we have another voicemail from Mindy from New Mexico.

[Angela]

Hey, guys, this is Mindy from New Mexico. Kim, I have to tell you that about two years ago, a friend of mine said to me, hey, are you sure you don't have adhd? And I thought, there's no way I have adhd. I've been diagnosed with anxiety. I've had anxiety my whole life. And I just didn't know what to do with that comment. And then I listened to your book. So many of the coping strategies in your book are how I survived college. And now that I'm home and I'm with my kids and my life isn't structured for me, I started to think, maybe I do. And I started working with a new therapist several months ago. And she said to me, are you sure that you have anxiety and you don't just have untreated adhd? So it does happen.

[Penn Holderness]

So Mindy diagnosed you. It is. So this is another one of those. Like, you're sitting here realizing, oh, no, I'm not the only one close.

[Kim Holderness]

We get hundreds of messages like this. And I have to tell you, if we went back through the comments on podcasts and whatever, there's always one that says, kim, are you sure you don't have adhd? And it's like, no.

[Penn Holderness]

The only person who really needed a lot of convincing that you had ADHD was you. A lot of times that happens, people around you, I mean, especially for kids, but for adults, anyone. People around you are like, oh, this is probably something that you have. And the hardest barrier is the person themself.

[Kim Holderness]

I really appreciate this community. I really appreciate my husband and the people I work with. I'm very lucky. And I just. If you're listening to this and you have. If you've been through this. And you have better words for it. Like, I. Normally, words are how I process things, but I've been. This happened in, what, like, October. So this was like, October, November. So this was like, a while ago. But I. And I try to journal. I can't even process it. I just, like. It's just the strangest feeling. So somebody. Somebody might be able to help me with that.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, we can see if they can help you with that. I'm trying to help you with it.

[Kim Holderness]

But there was another one. Hold on. From Mary. I was always the one without ADHD who made everything function in our family. Then good old Perry came along, and then all the masks and systems that I put in place stopped working. The realization that I chewed ADHD was like a body blow. I'm coming to terms with it thanks to amazing communities like the one you have here. Don't make me cry. And I. I don't know. I just have been on so many stages and tried to help so many women and, like, try to be so sympathetic to them, and I just feel like I was coming at it at a place of, like, I don't have this. Let me help you. Who has this? And I just. It feels like.

[Penn Holderness]

Do you think it changes the message at all?

[Kim Holderness]

No, it doesn't. And you're totally right. Like, nothing in the book becomes inaccurate at all.

[Penn Holderness]

More accurate.

[Kim Holderness]

I just feel like there needs to be a different version now because. Well, a, they're doing so much more research on girls and women. But I just think that if we were to write the book today, the book would look a lot different.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And still a good book.

[Penn Holderness]

Still a good book.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. But it would look a lot different.

[Penn Holderness]

Well, we're doing all kinds of other versions and types of this book. And I have, like, I've always said our first book, while really important to me, to help me feel better and to help you feel better and for us to discover more about it. We. Because it was largely about my diagnosis, we didn't talk enough about what it's like for women. We had. It was like two paragraphs. There were two very important paragraphs, but we could certainly talk a lot more about it.

[Kim Holderness]

We talked very generically in the book in general. And. And, yeah, and like we said, there's not enough research on girls, women, and people of color.

[Penn Holderness]

Like, not to say that, like, the rest of the book can absolutely apply to women.

[Kim Holderness]

100.

[Penn Holderness]

It was largely in the diagnosis side of it. Right, right. Like, there's just, like, that type of masking and just the fact that women are flat out tougher than men.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And can internalize their difficulties better than we can. Leads to a three to one diagnosis. Men over women. While genetically equal chances, equal predisposition for it.

[Kim Holderness]

Thank you. And thank you for listening and watching. And want to read us some credits? Yeah. In a very gentle, soothing tone, Laugh

[Penn Holderness]

Lines is written and produced by Kim

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Holderness, Pen Holderness and Ann Marie Tapke with original music by Pen Holderness. It is filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by acast. As always, we love to hear from you. Please write to us. Podcast theholdernessfamily.com Leave a voicemail at 323-364-3929.

[Penn Holderness]

Did you just fart?

[Ad Reader]

No.

[Kim Holderness]

This is this, this is the book thing. I'm fidgeting.

[Ann Marie Tapke]

Okay. And we will talk to you soon on laugh Lines.

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, love you. Bye.

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

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[Kim Holderness]

Experian.