← Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness
Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness
Unhinged ADHD Tips & Differences In Women with Dr. Amelia Kelley
01:12:13
Do Penn and I both have ADHD?
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Transcript502 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from wtf. Today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile offering reliable nationwide coverage backed by a 30 day money back guarantee. Love your service or get your money back, no questions asked. Boost Mobile offers the coverage, network speed and service you're used to, but at more affordable prices. Why pay more if you don't have to? You can get an unlimited plan for $25 a month that will never increase in price and ever. No price hikes, no multi line requirements, no stress. Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or find them online@boostmobile.com After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.
- [00:49]
B
This is Paige, the co host of Giggly Squad. I use Uber Eats for everything and I feel like people forget that you can truly order anything, especially living in New York City. It's why I love it. You can get Chinese food at any time of night, but it's not just for food. I order from CVS all the time. I'm always ordering from the grocery store. If a friend stops over, I have to order champagne. I also have this thing that whenever I travel, if I'm ever in a hotel room, I never feel like I'm missing something because I'll just Uber Eats it. The amount of times I've had to Uber eats hair items like hairspray, deodorant, you name it, I've ordered it. On Uber Eats, you can get grocery alcohol, everyday essentials in addition to restaurants and food you love. So in other words, get Almost anything with UberEats. Order now for alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. App for details.
- [01:50]
C
This is Mike. Mike's stuck in traffic. The only thing that could make this worse is if he promised to cook his date dinner at 8, which he did, but it's now 7:30 and he's.
- [02:02]
D
Still on the 5.
- [02:04]
C
Good thing Mike has Grubhub plus with Prime. Zero dollar delivery fees, zero stress, zero rush. Dinner's covered and so is his reputation. Free Grubhub Plus. It's on Prime. Additional terms and fees apply.
- [02:22]
E
We're pretending it's a podcast, but really it's just free therapy for me.
- [02:25]
F
Girl, stop apologizing. If I asked you like deep down in your heart and you had to guess, do you have adhd?
- [02:31]
E
I have a lot of the symptoms of adhd.
- [02:34]
F
Yeah, we get older every day. Got more wrinkles. That's okay.
- [02:39]
D
Yeah, we're laughing.
- [02:40]
F
When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we got my de.
- [02:51]
E
Hey, everybody. I'm Kim Holderness.
- [02:52]
F
And I'm Pen Holderness. And you have found us on laugh lines. If you were the kind of person who had to look under a fake rock to get a key to get into your house, you're in the right place.
- [03:02]
E
I feel like we've, like, I'm pretty sure at the homes that my parents still occupy, they're still there. There's like a fake rock.
- [03:10]
F
Someone's gonna come across the fake rock.
- [03:12]
E
Anyway. Today, our show is all about adhd. We have some of the most creative tips and hacks for those getting through adhd. And specifically, we have this amazing interview with the doctor who specializes in adhd, but also women with adhd. How that looks different, how to tell the difference between perimenopause and adhd.
- [03:31]
F
And that's what I'm curious, like, super curious about that part of it.
- [03:34]
E
Because right now I think if I got evaluated by psychiatrists or psychologists, they would say, yes, ma', am, you have adhd. But really, if you go back into my childhood, I didn't have those symptoms.
- [03:46]
F
Right.
- [03:46]
E
This is just the hor. Hormones, man. Hormones are wild.
- [03:52]
F
I mean, it's been interesting going on this. On this ride with you.
- [03:56]
E
I mean, there are days I just want to light things on fire and. And then there are days I'm like, really happy to sit there and snuggle.
- [04:04]
F
I really meant this as a compliment. Like you, I think your self awareness is a. Is a asset. Yes.
- [04:12]
E
Could you imagine trying to say, like, hey, babe. Yeah, you're. You're stabbing. You're stabbing me A little stabby.
- [04:19]
F
You're putting the ass in asset right now. No, but it has been. It's been very cool. I think that you have a lot of friends and you've met a lot of people along the way. Thanks in part to people we've met on this show who've explained perimenopause. And there are a lot of interlocking things. To your point, clinically speaking, they usually ask you if this was something that was present in childhood. Yeah, but it doesn't mean you don't need help, right? It doesn't mean you might not need. I'm wondering if you need some of the. Like, sometimes people need medication to get through the day. Maybe you need something like that. As someone with menopause, I'm very curious about this.
- [04:51]
E
Oh, I'm on plenty of medication. It's Amazing. But it was interesting. We have these amazing hacks that we asked you to send in. We also found some really brilliant ones from the Internet. And as somebody not diagnosed with ADHD but has plenty of the symptoms, I found them all to be so helpful. But first, I think because this is a laugh line. So we need to go to the laugh line first and play a voicemail from sweet Molly.
- [05:14]
F
Hi, Molly.
- [05:24]
G
Hi, my name is Molly, I'm 12 years old, I'm from Massachusetts, and you guys have inspired me to write my own book on adhd. I have adhd. I got diagnosed when I was seven. I would love to be included in one of your podcasts and I think that in one of your Gen Z like things, you should translate the new meaning of preppy for the older generations. You guys have inspired me to write my own book and so just really hoping that I can be on the last line. And I have permission to be on the last line.
- [06:05]
E
Thank you. I was going to ask.
- [06:07]
F
We were gonna ask for.
- [06:08]
E
I was gonna ask before we hit publish that we had permission from a parent. Molly.
- [06:13]
F
But how often do you hear a 12 year old acknowledging consent?
- [06:17]
E
I love this.
- [06:18]
F
That was very grown up.
- [06:19]
E
First of all, Molly, you've written a book about adhd. I would love to read it. Yes. And I mean, hate to segue like this, but Molly, we've also written another book about ADHD and I hope you've. I know you're 12, but this book is good for somebody like me and I'm 49, so it's all you can be with ADHD. And it's available for pre order now.
- [06:43]
F
Yes. This is what we call an advanced copy. It came in the mail yesterday to our house.
- [06:48]
E
Yeah.
- [06:48]
F
Which was like talking about emotions. That was an emotional day for us, like seeing this because most of the stuff that we do, you guys, it's, you can't touch it. It's, it's on, it's, you know, it's on a computer. So especially with all of these great illustrations and color, like it was wonderful seeing this. Is there a way we can get like Molly.
- [07:06]
E
We get Molly an advanced reader copy. She also mentioned the word preppy as the Gen Z translates. So we're going to something different. We're going to work on that at the end of the show. We're going to translate that for the older generation, which is us also. I mean, I just a little family business. Our tour stops for the book tour have been announced. We're going to be in Santa Monica, New York City. Raleigh. I hope to add more.
- [07:34]
F
We usually do.
- [07:35]
E
We usually do.
- [07:36]
F
We just kind of get started.
- [07:38]
E
But information about that is on our website, all youl Can Be with adhd. And we're doing school visits, so we're so excited.
- [07:45]
F
We are about to have on someone who I cannot wait to speak with, Dr. Amelia Kelly, who is the author of Powered by ADHD Strategies and Exercises for Women to Harness Their Untapped Gifts. Right. And I think, honestly, anytime you hear about tips and tricks, like, they go across. Right. It could be for a woman, could be for a man, could be for a child, could be for anybody. But before we talk to Dr. Kelly, one more tip and trick from the Laugh line again, because Amy says she needs some help.
- [08:14]
G
Hi, this is Amy Collier from Virginia. I saw your notice for ADHD hacks, and actually I'm just endorsing why I want to listen to this podcast, because I don't have any hacks. I need some help. I literally got my husband's credit card earlier to buy something and it's gone. I don't know. I put it in my pocket and now it's not there and I don't know where it is. It's just ADHD things just disappearing. So I can't wait to listen.
- [08:41]
E
Oh, sweet Amy, thank you for calling.
- [08:44]
F
And yes, I've got credit cards all over the city of Raleigh. I don't know where they are, but they're in a restaurant.
- [08:51]
E
What we typically do, we do sort of an accounting at the end of the month and then we go to the credit card statement and we see the last pace that was used.
- [08:59]
F
Yep.
- [08:59]
E
And they're always really nice and be like, ah, Vivace got it again. And we roll by, he walks in, they just hand it to him.
- [09:05]
F
Yeah, can I give her my hack for that? Tell me if you have an iPhone. Apple Pay. I just don't like when I get the chance because they have this tableside service. That way your method of payment never leaves you because the real issue isn't giving it to it and giving it to us back. They give it to us back in a little book.
- [09:26]
E
Right.
- [09:26]
F
And then as soon as they give it to us, we have to think about, okay, we have to do math now.
- [09:31]
D
Yes.
- [09:32]
F
We have to do complex math and add like a nice tip. And that elicits an emotion. Amy. Like, you know what? This person really was great. I'm going to tip them. And then also you may be like, you know what, Pen? You're really like, you're patting yourself on the back all these things are happening as people are standing up. So it is. That is a serious. Like, that's quicksand for an adhd, unless you just have something that's contactless. I didn't lose anything in Europe because they only do that type of payment. They do the tableside thing. And more and more restaurants are doing that now. You just have to ask them for it. So if you can get your credit card on your phone. It has changed my loss of credit card stats, like, drastically. Just letting you know.
- [10:12]
E
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes he's like, hey, babe, I can't find my credit card. Can I bring yours to the store? And wow, that.
- [10:19]
F
Cause I'll lose that.
- [10:20]
E
Yeah. So that is some trust. I'm like, which credit card do I want to lose today? Okay, moving on to some tips and hacks, because we are ADHD people in terms of, like, this is the. You know, we're writing books. It's a big conversation in our house. Social media knows who we are, and we are served some hilarious hacks that we need to share with you today. So we're gonna call this the best of the Internet.
- [10:42]
F
Yeah. And thank you to Anne Marie Tapke, our producer, for finding a bunch of these. These are really funny. So these are just some creative ways. And I wanna start by saying adults, kids, anybody, the best ADHD hack is something that's very personal to you. So also, we have this crazy, creative brain, ADHDers, and you, babe, and me, and it allows us to come up with very unusual things that I celebrate. For example, this woman, she actually says that when she takes her medicine every morning so that she remembers that she took it, she screams like, I took my medicine at the top of her lungs.
- [11:19]
E
So when I read that, I did that this morning because I'm on some medicine for my brain. And the issue is if I take. There's one medication, it's a very low dose, but if I double it, my psychiatrist is like, this will make you sick. Cause I'm very sensitive to the side effects of medication. She's like, this will actually make you sick. So sometimes I skip it because I don't if I would rather skip it than take double and get sick. So this morning, and I've tried all the things, but then I forget my system. So I was like, I took my medicine and Sunny looked at me and she's like, okay, great, you did it.
- [11:58]
F
Well, it's so smart, right? This is all about having stuff to remain in your working memory.
- [12:03]
E
Yes.
- [12:03]
F
So that was.
- [12:04]
E
That was brilliant. I love that. This next one's great. I tell Chat GPT everything I need to do, then I ask it to give me one chore at a time and encourage me to when they are done. So here's my question with chatbots. I love some AI assistant used for good. Will it. Can it cue you one at a time or just give you a to do list?
- [12:24]
D
I would think you'd, like, go back and say, finish and be like, okay, now do, like, great job, Kim. Now do this one.
- [12:30]
E
Okay. So it's like, yeah, okay.
- [12:33]
F
This is an example of AI used the right way.
- [12:35]
E
Yeah.
- [12:36]
F
Am I. Am I correct here? Like, to make the world a better place.
- [12:38]
E
Yeah. Oh, I like this next one, Ben. Like it for you.
- [12:42]
F
Okay. Oh, okay.
- [12:43]
E
I cross my fingers when I'm listening to someone talk, so I don't interrupt them.
- [12:48]
F
So that's just. That means people like, shut up.
- [12:51]
E
Well, you are doing such a good job.
- [12:54]
F
Like, I feel like I've gotten better at it. No, I did that on purpose.
- [13:00]
E
Okay. But I can tell you I do.
- [13:04]
F
I feel like I've gotten. Sorry, Joke over.
- [13:08]
E
You have. And you are so aware of it that you know how when you're. There's people doing double Dutch in the playground, and the person who's trying to jump in is, like, physically, like, mirroring the rhythm. There are so many times I know you. So somebody is telling a story about a specific place you have been to, and you're like, oh, my God, I want to talk about that. And you're. You are. But you're holding back. But I know you so well. You're like, but you're doing a really good job.
- [13:38]
F
Thank you.
- [13:38]
E
You're doing a really good job.
- [13:39]
F
I've had two people in the last year tell me how much better I've got at listening. And just like, I didn't say, how am I doing at listening? One of, like, Paige after dinner one time, she was like, you are getting so much better at listen. Like, she took the time to tell me that that's a good friend. It is. It also just really reinforces. I must have really sucked. Like, really, really sucked for someone to notice that. But that's not how I took it. I don't think I'll ever be good enough that I won't be the double Dutch guy. That's such a great, unbelievable comparison because it's how I feel.
- [14:12]
E
Yeah.
- [14:13]
F
I want it. I want to get in. But that is a nice little cue, like, the fingers crossed.
- [14:17]
E
Yeah. And maybe that is distracting you from actually listening. But I Think for the ADHD brain. It's not. Your natural instinct isn't to calmly listen, give it a beat and then respond. So like whatever you need to do. Yeah, yeah.
- [14:36]
F
The next unhinged TikTok hack tip. If I am cooking, I wear an apron and tie it extra tight. So if I sit down, it hurts. If I sit, I will forget I was cooking.
- [14:52]
E
If I sit, I'll forget I was cooking. Okay.
- [14:56]
F
Yeah.
- [14:56]
E
Yes. Okay. So my man penholderness loves a hard boiled egg. Loves a hard boiled egg.
- [15:04]
F
It's ADHD kryptonite.
- [15:06]
E
It is ADHD kryptonite because you have to boil it for a specific amount of time and then turn it off. And then the way he does it is he turns it off. He only boils it for like a minute or two. Turns it off, lets it sit there. But then it can only sit in the warm water for so long and you have to. There it is. A lot of steps. How many times I've rolled into the kitchen and the water has evaporated and.
- [15:26]
F
The eggs are still there.
- [15:27]
E
The little sad eggs, poor eggs are just brown.
- [15:33]
F
Hey, I eat them anyway on principle.
- [15:34]
E
Yes. You stand over the garbage can and you're like, I'm ready to eat these.
- [15:37]
F
Eggs because I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna not eat eggs.
- [15:40]
E
That's really funny. That's really funny.
- [15:43]
F
Can I get back on my. On my soapbox? And I know this exists, but it should exist and I shouldn't have to like go online and find some hack for it.
- [15:51]
E
Okay.
- [15:52]
F
Gas grills. Okay. Grills that spew flammable liquids out of them should have a frickin timer on them. Like there should be. And I know you go, they have. The new ones, they have. Mine doesn't.
- [16:07]
E
Like why can I tell this story about how I said we, we grill frequently on Sundays we have my mom over.
- [16:15]
F
I'm talking about indoor and outdoor gas grills.
- [16:17]
E
100%.
- [16:17]
F
All of them. All of them.
- [16:18]
E
Okay. So on like a Tuesday or Wednesday, I looked over at the grill outside and it looked like heat was radiating. Radiating off of it. So the grill had been on for several days.
- [16:28]
F
Just one of them though. Like.
- [16:29]
E
Oh, just. Okay.
- [16:31]
F
Yeah, but. Yeah, but odd.
- [16:32]
E
No, I think that, yes. Being able to set a timer and then it automatically goes off.
- [16:37]
F
Yeah. Like everything's electronic at this point. Right? Like even gas should be electronic.
- [16:42]
E
I think that should be an option. Like, I personally don't need it.
- [16:46]
F
I don't need it.
- [16:47]
E
But I would say most of the people in My family do. So I would love that as an add on.
- [16:53]
F
Okay. Not just me, people with dementia, people who are going through perimenopause. Like, how many times do you hear they left the gas grill on and that was like a sign that something was wrong. That's the reason why we got my parents out of their house was because they kept leaving the gas grill on.
- [17:06]
E
Yeah. And you say grill. You mean like the burn?
- [17:09]
F
The range. The range. Sorry. But like, we, like, Chad, GPT is going to become this person's executive function coach. We got to figure out some way to turn off gas grills, put a timer on them.
- [17:19]
E
No, you're right. I love this next one. And this is one of those things that works for. This is not just adhd, this is being a woman. This next hack, I take my hair straightener with me around the house when I'm done with it, so I know it's unplugged.
- [17:34]
F
Wow.
- [17:35]
E
So they're the. For whatever reason. So my. My very cheap, like, Conair curling iron has an automatic off switch. But the really nice tools, like ones that are like, high end and cost 100, $200, for whatever reason that I've seen, don't have an automatic off switch. Maybe because they're used by professionals. They need to be on all day or something like that.
- [18:00]
F
Okay.
- [18:01]
E
So most women I know get to a place and they're like, crap, did I unplug my straightener? Like, so that's a really fun. That's very clever. And that's even if you're not adhd. I love that.
- [18:11]
F
And again, these hacks are all. They're coming from a place of I needed this problem solved, emergency and necessity. And they're incredibly creative.
- [18:20]
E
Right.
- [18:21]
F
And they're funny and they're fun, and people with ADHD love being funny.
- [18:25]
E
I. This next one is. I do this too.
- [18:27]
F
Okay.
- [18:28]
E
I wear my shoes indoors to remind my brain that I'm being productive.
- [18:32]
F
Okay, well, we're not allowed to wear our shoes in certain parts of our house.
- [18:36]
E
Correct. But I have inside sneakers. I have specific inside sneakers. Although I'm wearing my bedroom slippers right now, if I wear my inside sneakers, it for whatever reason, wearing shoes inside my house makes me feel more productive. If I was just walking around in fuzzy socks, it feels like a Saturday. But if I'm wearing my shoes, I'm more productive.
- [19:00]
F
Okay. All right.
- [19:02]
E
It's a cue to my brain that, like, okay, now it's time to do your crap.
- [19:05]
F
Yeah.
- [19:06]
E
Yeah.
- [19:06]
F
Again, love it. I'm not. I'M not yucking your yum. Okay. Did I use that right? Sure. No. Okay. This is my favorite. Okay. I cannot believe that someone came up with this thing, and if it works for them, that's great. Speaking of not yucking your yum, I lie and tell people I've already done something, so I have to do it so I don't get caught.
- [19:28]
E
Okay. So I've gone to the store to buy all these things that Lola needs to go to college.
- [19:34]
F
Right.
- [19:34]
E
And then I have to do it.
- [19:36]
F
Yes.
- [19:36]
E
So that I don't disappoint people.
- [19:38]
F
Basically, it gives a sense of urgency for you being called a liar, which you already are if you haven't actually done it already.
- [19:44]
E
That's so funny. But again, Sam, I don't think that.
- [19:47]
D
Works for Kim because I don't think that you're motivated by.
- [19:50]
F
Definitely doesn't work for her.
- [19:51]
D
Yeah, I can see her face.
- [19:53]
E
Like, I don't. That wouldn't work.
- [19:54]
D
But, like, if you're motivated by guilt.
- [19:56]
E
Yes.
- [19:57]
F
It's. Again, this, like, this is the beauty of these hacks and fun story. We're actually working on a book about this as well, which is way, way down in the future. But the best ADHD hacks, and I want to talk to the good doctor about this, are incredibly subjective and personal. Right. Because we each have our own set of things that motivate us, especially those with adhd.
- [20:16]
E
I like this one I write make a list on my to do list so I can immediately check it off. This is what I'm saying. It's like, not just an ADHD thing. I love that little dopamine hit of crossing something off my to do list. I will even rewrite a to do list to make it look prettier. And so I'm going to write. Write a to do list on the top of my to do list so I can check it out.
- [20:37]
F
It's another little mini dopamine.
- [20:38]
E
Yeah.
- [20:38]
F
Love it. What about I put my keys in the fridge so I remember to take my lunch with me to work?
- [20:43]
E
Brilliant.
- [20:45]
F
I love that fridge ain't gonna hurt your keys, right?
- [20:47]
E
No.
- [20:48]
F
Maybe degrade the battery a little bit on the starter, but. Am I overthinking it?
- [20:51]
E
I think you're overthinking it.
- [20:53]
F
Okay.
- [20:53]
E
Yeah. I love that idea.
- [20:55]
F
I've left my keys in the fridge plenty of times.
- [20:57]
E
But that's more where, like, you came home late from work, you put. You went to go grab a beer, and then you replaced it with your keys. And then the next day there was Chaos about, like, where's my keys, by the way?
- [21:07]
F
Do you know there are cars now that, like, your phone is your key?
- [21:11]
E
Yeah, I can't do that either.
- [21:13]
F
Oh, man. For ADHDers, like, having your phone as your wallet and your phone as your key, like, you can literally, like, pretty soon get away with just carrying one thing. I want it to be, like, in Australia. Australia is very ADHD friendly. Their licenses are on their phones. Yes. You can check into the airport. You can go through T, like, security, whatever it is. Do all that stuff with just your phone, limiting it to one thing that you have to bring. Of course, if you lose, you are so.
- [21:41]
E
But this last one I super cannot. Cannot identify with. But I'm. I'm assuming maybe this would work for you.
- [21:49]
F
Okay.
- [21:50]
E
This person said, I turn on hoarders when I don't feel motivated to clean, to trigger my OCD and my panic anxiety. That. Would that work for you, Sam?
- [22:00]
F
Hang on. In a good way.
- [22:02]
E
There are a lot of people that are angels on this earth, and part of their mission, um, is they. They, for free, will go help people clean out these houses that are overwhelmed by, like, hoarding tendencies. I can't watch three frames of that on TikTok without getting, like, a little, like. Without starting to, like, vibrate. That. That triggers my panic and OCD in wild ways. But if it works for you. There you go.
- [22:29]
F
Can I tell a story about college?
- [22:31]
E
Don't get canceled for this.
- [22:33]
F
Actually, my. I. We should call my buddy Tyler, and he probably tell the story better than me because he can spin a yarn, so.
- [22:39]
E
Yarn. Okay. Uncle Morty, he.
- [22:42]
F
We were watching a program on television. No. So he told me that the only time he ever saw me clean, like, by myself without someone telling me to do it was when I watched the movie Rudy, which is, like, about the Notre Dame football player who worked really, really hard. And he was, like, undersized, and he just was the hardest working person. And it always gave me this sense that I was a lazy piece of crap.
- [23:05]
E
Yeah.
- [23:06]
F
When I watch Rudy. So every. Like. And we. We would watch Rudy, like, a lot.
- [23:10]
D
A lot.
- [23:10]
F
It was a really good movie. So I think at one point he actually was like, let's put on Rudy when the house was a total mess. So it was this. I don't know if it was, like, a pavlovian thing that he had trained me to clean by turning on the.
- [23:24]
E
Movie Rudy, which is the roommate you. You lived with, and they found chicken tongues in your drawers.
- [23:29]
F
That was Tyler. Yeah.
- [23:32]
E
Big. Yikes.
- [23:33]
F
Well, I was getting them out of the way because I guess somebody was coming into my room. I don't know. Like, I'm not sure. I don't even know if it was a girl. It might have been my parents. Like, it could have been.
- [23:43]
E
The best option.
- [23:44]
F
Can I be honest? The girls, like, usually it was like they were like, why don't you come over to my place then?
- [23:49]
E
Yes.
- [23:49]
F
You were even like that when we first started.
- [23:51]
E
Oh, I know. I was like, let's not stay here. But the best option was not the trash can. It was a drawer.
- [24:00]
F
It was closer than the trash can.
- [24:01]
E
Yeah.
- [24:02]
F
I don't think you realize, but my. My training going into college was so weak.
- [24:07]
D
My training.
- [24:08]
F
Because I just didn't clean anything. It was like a hunger strike that I did at my house. And my sweet mom would clean up behind me the entire time. And it took me decades to catch up with it.
- [24:17]
E
I will say your. Your mother is an angel on this earth. And she working woman everything, but she felt like. So we lived with Penn's parents for the first month we moved to Raleigh because our house, we couldn't close on our house. And at first I was like, oh, my God, I have to go live with my in laws. Let me tell you. I was sad. Like, I cried when we left. It was such a joy because your mother said to me, and I've probably told this story, she's like, it would just be such a gift if I could do your laundry. It would just make me feel like I was, you know, helping and contributing. And I was like, if it's that if it's gonna help you, please marry. And your dad cooked breakfast. So they. The way they showed love to you was by cooking and cleaning for you.
- [25:03]
F
They did.
- [25:04]
E
And it. But it was a huge disservice when you went off to the real world.
- [25:07]
F
It was. And I want to make sure, like, I know it sounds like I was probably just like sitting on a couch with like a tub of ice cream and some chicken wings, but I was very busy.
- [25:16]
E
Working on your magic.
- [25:18]
F
Playing with my synthesizers.
- [25:19]
E
Playing with your synthesizers.
- [25:20]
F
Going to show. Like, if you're going to make fun of show choir, now's the time to do it because I spent a lot of time doing that.
- [25:25]
E
But you are a very busy high school student. Like, you were very busy.
- [25:27]
F
And it's a bummer that none of that actually helped my career. Oh, wait.
- [25:35]
E
Gotcha. More on this after these words. This is an ad by BetterHelp.
- [25:42]
F
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E
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F
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E
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D
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- [27:47]
F
Let's get to the good doctor. She's going to help us with all this, okay?
- [27:50]
E
Dr. Amelia Kelly is a trauma informed therapist, researcher and author specialized in adhd, especially in women and highly sensitive individuals. She is the author of Powered by ADHD Strategies and Exercises for Women to Harness Their Untapped A Practical Guide to Embracing the Strengths of an ADHD Brain. Through her writing, clinical work, and national speaking engagements, Dr. Kelly empowers women to understand their neurodivergence, break free from shame, and thrive with authenticity. Welcome to the show, Dr. Amelia Kelly.
- [28:21]
D
Hey, thanks for having me, man.
- [28:23]
F
We have a lot of questions. We just, we've been very curious for the last several minutes before you came on and A lot of the things that Kim and I were talking about were the divide between men and women with adhd. They present themselves pretty differently. In your opinion, what are some of the biggest differences?
- [28:39]
D
So I think one of the first things to recognize is that with women especially, a lot of the symptoms are very internalized. And because they're internalized, they're not quite as easy for others outside. Meaning we can think of even as far back as childhood for people like teachers and parents and other caring adults, hopefully caring adults to recognize the traits and get the kids at that time the help they need. So whereas girls and women also tend to experience. There's one of the symptoms, if you go through the checklist, the diagnostic manual, where it says racing thoughts. Oh, that.
- [29:19]
E
Yeah, it's standard.
- [29:21]
D
I thought, well, that is incredibly present in the female presentation of adhd.
- [29:28]
F
Wow. Okay. So I. I have heard, and we wrote a book about it and we mentioned the internalizing your difficulties. Right. Like, that's, that's why, that's why it's so under diagnosed in women. Can you tell me what racing thoughts are? You. You nodded your head like you knew what it was. What, what does a racing thought feel like?
- [29:43]
D
This is, this is the way I experience it. But I also, with my group, I run a group every other week with some local women. And it's kind of like what you've sometimes, Penn, I think, talked about, where you'll go into a room and you'll see something and you'll get an idea and then you'll go do the thing and then suddenly you're like, I need to water this. And then I. And you're kind of bouncing around and it pulls you in different directions, and then you forget what you were supposed to be doing in the first place. That happens all internally with women. Now, that doesn't mean that they're not also doing some of this, but it can be very constant. And the race within the woman's ADHD mind can often be very misunderstood as things like anxiety, as things like being a nag. I know this might sound a little odd, but if you think about it, a woman with ADHD is engaging in so much masking to try to keep up with life that sometimes we are thinking 10 steps ahead to keep ourselves out of, I guess, kind of like the ADHD chasm of trouble. And because of that, it can sound like we are anxiously predicting that things are going to go to hell, when in fact, our thoughts are racing so far ahead of us that we're behind them the whole Time. So it's just. It's like anxiety and overdrive.
- [31:10]
E
Well, sending a kid off to college soon, some. Everything is making me cry. I'm in perimenopause, so everything's making me cry. But this is. This is hitting because, like, I've never been diagnosed with adhd, but, like, that's how I live. My thoughts are. I'm like, I. I have, like, Amazon orders. I'm making it, like three in the morning, like, for. That's what I do. I wake up, I'm like, oh, what about this? And I'm like, yes.
- [31:35]
F
But, like, she's getting hit with all of this at once.
- [31:38]
E
Well, no, but I don't. So what is the difference? Because what you're describing is adhd.
- [31:42]
F
That sounds normal to you, but that's normal.
- [31:45]
E
Is that perimenopause, too?
- [31:47]
D
Is that something you experienced before perimenopause?
- [31:50]
E
Anxiety, yes. Anxiety, yes. That's. That's my first, like, panic attack was. I was probably, like, 16, but it wasn't constant. It definitely got worse. The anxiety piece got worse in perimenopause. But the racing thoughts, like, I don't remember living like this, but maybe, maybe. I mean, I've always. I don't know. I don't know. I can't. I can't answer that. I don't know. I don't know. Pen. Have I always been like, so.
- [32:20]
F
I don't know. The way that she just explained it, like, so it hit me, too, when you said, you know, all those things you're talking about, like, everyone has to just deal with that with me because I'm flying around like a bumblebee. And you saying that it just. It all happens in your head. I can't. The only person who can answer that question is you, babe.
- [32:37]
E
Yeah. I mean, I think it's kind of like that's who I am, and I just thought it was anxiety.
- [32:45]
D
So how do you tell the difference?
- [32:49]
E
Yeah, how do you tell the difference?
- [32:50]
F
Let's start with that.
- [32:50]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think when I always. When I'm trying to make these distinctions with my clients, there's a couple things that really matter. One of them is etiology, which is where it originates from. So if we were going to peel it back even further, we can look at. There are actual chemical brain differences in the brain of someone who's experiencing anxiety versus adhd, because we know that ADHD is a dopamine deficiency issue. We know that there's structural differences in the frontal cortex, which is like the workbench where we make decisions and we remember short term things. That's not issue in anxiety. Okay. So because of that, the racing thoughts in anxiety can create more of a pressure of impending doom. And I'm doing it here because I feel like it shows a lot on the heart.
- [33:42]
E
Yeah.
- [33:43]
D
And it feels there. Whereas the racing thoughts of ADHD can lead to more of a feeling of insufficiency.
- [33:51]
F
I hear that. That definitely happens to me for sure. And. But back to you, babe.
- [34:01]
E
You're so great.
- [34:02]
D
This is her therapy session.
- [34:04]
E
This is. I mean, we're pretending it's a podcast, but really it's just free therapy for me. Just kidding.
- [34:09]
F
You know this as well as I do, Doc. If you have something that needs addressing or understanding the partner understanding it is a real force multiplier when it comes to treating it.
- [34:21]
E
But I would say as I think I've had some great therapists in, in my life, but I don't think in. I mean, I was in therapy in college. Like, I've done this and it was always been, you just have anxiety. You just say, I don't even know that ADHD was an option. So I think the insufficiency, 100%. But also the tightening in the chest, the impending doom of the tightening of the chest. Yeah, like, I have that too. So. But I don't want to. I mean, we've written these books and the whole thing, it's like, I'm writing from the perspective of, like, I don't have adhd. I live with somebody with adhd, but I don't have it. And then literally he's writing the book and we're doing the audio taping. We're reading. I'm like, God, this sounds like me.
- [35:16]
F
Let me ask you this, let me ask you this. And we'll let you know, the professional. We'll let the professional jump in in a second. But she's been very good at laying out and letting us talk about this is. So are you afraid to have adhd? Is it one of those things where. Oh, God, we can't have two of us with this.
- [35:32]
E
Yeah, yeah. I mean, but we're doing great. But that's our thing is that I.
- [35:40]
F
We have like six trophies over there for having adhd. I'm looking at them right now.
- [35:46]
E
Trophies. Okay, well, back, back to you, doctor. No, no, no. But you, you are seeing, right, a lot of women coming in 30s, 40s, 50s, who are being diagnosed just now in my boat. Like, why are we just now doing this work?
- [36:04]
D
I think your example of your Past experience in therapy is actually a beautiful jumping off point for this. Not necessarily saying you have adhd, but without doing an actual assessment. Because I think historically, until we've started to understand the power and potential of this adaptive brain and until we've started to understand, in my opinion how many more people probably do have ADHD than we originally realized is because women are exceptional, as I was using the term before, at masking, at trying to over function to compensate. Whether yes, whether it be culturally, whether it be because our brains are wired for empathy. Everyone's brain is wired for empathy. But there are, there are studies that show there are exceptionally activated areas in the female brain when it comes to empathy. And if we can empathically know that us forgetting to get our child from school or that us forgetting to plan their birthday party and do you see it a lot of this I remember I have little kids of like a 5 and a 9 year old and I remember one day one of my kids saying something about their birthday coming up and my daughter goes well yeah, when you guys plan our birthday. And then she looks at my son and goes actually when mommy plans our birthday. And she wasn't being a jerk, she was just. I mean he helps but really the mental load has historically been on women.
- [37:36]
F
And boy, the mental load is real.
- [37:39]
E
Yeah.
- [37:40]
F
And it serves as the impetus for all of this. Right.
- [37:43]
E
And it's to the point that Dr. Kelly so the mental load we have these conversations. Penn is 10 out of 10.
- [37:50]
F
He wasn't always.
- [37:53]
E
You've been always very, I've always loved.
- [37:55]
F
You but like I haven't really figured out the best way to do it until recently.
- [37:59]
E
But it's to the point now where even if he ask asks me what time is it when he's just as close to the clock, I'm like don't borrow my mental space to ask time because that's pulling me from what I need. So like it is like the mental part, I'm just like, I can't, like I can't handle one more thing including telling you what time it is.
- [38:20]
D
Like I can't tell you how much I relate to you because I am married to someone who has very obvious ADHD traits, medicated, been knowledgeable about his ADHD for a very long time. And then you have me who is highly sensitive but I've always been an over functioner. I never really realized about my own neurodiversity in this ADHD realm until I started to understand. Oh, the fact that I try to plan ahead is not Because I'm awesome. It's because I'm anxious as hell that I'm going to forget something.
- [38:55]
E
Can I tell you the to do lists? I. So that's why I'm like, well, I don't have adhd. I. I do procrastinate. I'm a normal human being. I procrastinate. What? I promise we're gonna ask questions about other people.
- [39:05]
F
No, I'm kind of digging this, but she's doing great.
- [39:08]
E
The to do lists on my list have to do lists. Because I don't think my brain can hold the information. And I mean, absolutely. Yeah. So to confirm you do have adhd.
- [39:21]
D
I have been. It's funny, I've been diagnosed. My first diagnosis was from a client who is a therapist who we were having a conversation and she goes, well, yeah, you know, because you have adhd. And I looked at her, this is a couple of years ago, I looked at her, I go, what? She's like, well, yeah, you have adhd. I was like, oh, okay. Well, what's your co pay? Even though she's there in my office. So from there I went on a journey of exploration, exploring what this looks like. And this is where I truly also understood the spectrum of it. Yeah, right. Because it looks so different in my husband than it does in me. And it was really a driving force behind what I was writing about in my Powered by ADHD book for women. And I see it in my group that I run as well is that. And I think this is why it gets missed. So to get to your original question of why is it missed so much? It's not just because the research has been behind with the only study. The first study on women and ADHD did not happen until the early 2000s.
- [40:28]
E
I know.
- [40:29]
F
Yeah, we, we learned about that last year. It's crazy.
- [40:31]
E
Well, we, you know, want to do more. We wanted to write in the first book more about women, but there was nothing to write about.
- [40:40]
F
Right. It was a research based book and.
- [40:42]
E
There was nothing to write about.
- [40:44]
D
Exactly.
- [40:44]
F
Okay.
- [40:45]
D
And so you see that, but then you see the fact that women who have adhd and I see this in my group are so high achieving. A lot of them hold very important jobs or have like, they balance their whole families, they balance their social lives. They're constantly trying to balance their emotions and the emotions of everyone around them because of the emotional mirroring. It's just sometimes it's hard to catch it until things like age, life, hormones, all the coping mechanisms start to fall apart.
- [41:19]
E
So if somebody's listening to this and feels like they identify with this. How does an adult go about getting a diagnosis for adhd?
- [41:30]
D
So there are different ways, truly. Honestly, someone listening could go online and find the Adult Self Report Scale, which is an empirically supported scale that you can do to get started. You can take that, see what the results are, just to inform yourself. Now, that is obviously not a diagnosis, but this is not, you know, some kind of magazine scale that you're just, you know.
- [41:53]
E
Yeah.
- [41:54]
D
Oh, I miss those. Like, I miss the, like, YM magazines.
- [41:58]
E
Or, like, all the glamour. Like, which kind of date are you?
- [42:01]
F
I have a theory. I have a theory that, like, actual magazines are gonna have a comeback. I don't know how they're gonna do it.
- [42:07]
D
Like records?
- [42:08]
F
Yes. Like vinyl. I think it's gonna. I think people are gonna grow fatigued of getting their information digitally because they don't know what's real or not, and they're gonna want, like, a piece of paper.
- [42:17]
E
Oh, I like it.
- [42:18]
F
That's just a theory for me.
- [42:19]
E
Okay. That was an ADHD kind of segue. Anyway, back to how the squirrel.
- [42:23]
F
Yeah, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
- [42:24]
E
How do you get a diagnosis an adult? So you can take the Glamour quiz. No, I'm kidding.
- [42:28]
D
You take the right. You can. You can just to start, just to get, like, am I really feeling what I'm feeling? I think that's a great thing, just to inform yourself. But reach out to an ADHD informed clinician in your area. And I say ADHD informed because technically, any of the clinicians that work at my practice could begin with some of this, the scales, and do the assessment with you. I don't feel like one single assessment is the whole picture, especially when it comes to people who are really good at masking, I. E. Women, or even highly sensitive men. Okay. So deeply empathic, highly sensitive men. I've seen some of the same type of kind of prolonging of diagnosis in these individuals. And when we look at the fact the High sensitivity is 30% of the population, men and women, I have a.
- [43:21]
F
Question that I want to be sensitive about.
- [43:25]
D
Let's do it.
- [43:27]
F
Okay.
- [43:27]
E
Okay.
- [43:29]
F
Because I like, you're. You're feeling stuff now, and I want you to continue to feel these things. And so let me know if this is making you feel uncomfortable.
- [43:35]
E
Okay. Thank you.
- [43:36]
F
So I want to talk about rejection, sensitive dysphoria, which I. I didn't know enough about when I wrote my first book. I think I glanced over it, but wasn't aware that I actually suffered from it. And I think in its most severe cases, you have physical symptoms when rejection hits you. Right. And I've had that a large portion of my life. I've learned to just kind of push through it sometimes, honestly, sometimes it makes. It also makes succeeding, like, that much better because there's a sense of relief and a sense of, like, euphoria, like, the opposite of whatever the dysphoria is. And I know that we're talking about all these symptoms, and then we talk about how they representing women. And I've got a wife here who I love, who, like, if I. I know that she doesn't love it when I even name tough things that she's going through, like when I. When I talk about you, even that hurts.
- [44:26]
E
Mm. So the rejection sensitivity. Yeah. When you. Okay, Dr. Kelly, can you give a quick official definition of rejection sensitivity, dysphoria, and then how it relates to adhd? And then I will answer your question. Pen.
- [44:41]
F
Okay.
- [44:42]
E
Yes.
- [44:42]
D
Okay. Absolutely.
- [44:43]
E
Okay.
- [44:44]
D
So as you were saying, rejection sensitive dysphoria is the experience of complete overwhelm or discomfort with anything that even hints at dissatisfying others, failing others, doing the wrong thing. And this can get really tricky when it comes to adhd, because we're looking at nature nurture. Like, is it because of the emotion regulation issues in the ADHD brain, or is it because research shows that ADHD children receive up to 10,000 more redirections before the age of 12? When I read that, my mind was blown. That's hard, right? So some of this is from experience, like, trauma, almost. Trauma.
- [45:31]
E
It's.
- [45:31]
D
Right. ADHD trauma. Absolutely. So some of it is that, and then some of it is the neuropsych psychology of it. The fact that we need. When I receive a critique, my brain needs to do a lot to hear the critique and regulate my nervous system so I can hear the critique.
- [45:51]
E
Same. Right. I just thought that was normal. I thought that, for example, the most unrelated example I could possibly provide to you, we were on this television show called the Amazing Race, Right.
- [46:07]
D
And I remember it.
- [46:08]
E
Yes. If we came in second. Second. I was pissed. I had. I couldn't. I had. I would start shaking, and I felt like it was my fault. I did this. And I mean, I would. I, I. But I thought it was just because I was really, really competitive. But Penn is right. On a smaller scale, if he gives me feedback about, hey, just stuff around the house, like, something that might not be working, my instinct is to go, like, fists up and, like, let's. But I have to. I have to literally in my brain. And. But I honestly, I just thought that was. I, like, don't normal people have that?
- [46:56]
F
I mean, nobody. Nobody likes to hear that. I was referring more to when I was explaining, like, you've got a lot of stuff going on. Like, I was listing.
- [47:03]
E
I don't like that.
- [47:04]
F
Okay.
- [47:05]
E
Yeah. So. But I. Again, I'm like, isn't that normal? Like, people. He'll say, like, because we do. We just have a lot of, you know, family stuff happening, all this stuff, and he'll. He wants to list it. So I feel validated in my feelings, but I don't like to hear. I don't. It feels like shame that I can't handle it. Like, isn't that. But I thought that was normal. But again, this is like, well, you know, I'm gonna get an appointment, Dr. Kelly, after this to make this personal. But I. If anybody is listening to this, Like, I thought it's women. I don't know. I just thought it was normal.
- [47:38]
D
Well, I mean, I would say when he was first. When Penn, you were first explaining it, my first gut instinct was, oh, okay. It's overwhelm and having to recount everything. You're already mentally loaded. But then you kind of took a left turn, Kim, and said, but then it actually makes me feel criticized. And to me, that sounds a lot more connected to, like, deeper stuff. The rejection, sensitivity. And the reason dysphoria is important is because when something is dysphoric, it's not true. Right. It's altered, and it's manipulated and expanded. We think of, like, body dysmorphia.
- [48:13]
F
Yes.
- [48:14]
E
You know, well, no, it's just like hearing, you know, I. Yeah.
- [48:21]
F
Let me do this really quickly. We're going to break down the fourth wall. You are now feeling guilty that this conversation has turned to you. This is incredibly relatable to anyone else who is listening. So I hope. I hope that you're comfortable continuing because you're going to help a lot of people by talking about this.
- [48:35]
D
I agree.
- [48:37]
E
I just. I don't know a woman my age right now who doesn't feel overwhelmed. Like, who. I mean, I think we do a lot of. We do a lot of perimenopause content, because I just blame everything on perimenopause. So I just. I don't see what a path looks like to try to untangle the two at this point. Like, what's ADHD and what's perimenopause? Like, I don't know how you can do that.
- [49:05]
D
Mm. You know, on one hand, it's. I think if you're looking at treatment, that's the only reason you need to know the difference. Because treatments can look different. Right. HRT is different than Adderall or, you know, having. Actually having a really great bullet bulleted to do list is probably good for both. But I think that's really the only distinct reason you have to know the difference.
- [49:27]
E
Yes.
- [49:28]
D
Beyond that, sometimes I try to encourage my clients, especially a lot of people come to me and after they've done kind of more traditional approaches and they want something a little bit more holistic and I'll say, I don't care about the laundry list of diagnoses you have. Like, if we do one, we will affect all.
- [49:49]
E
Okay.
- [49:49]
D
And I think taking the pressure off yourself to have to piece it apart so much can be really helpful because the good rest is helpful for perimenopause and, and good rest is absolutely necessary for adhd. The only time I think it's really important beyond knowing what treatment is for historic referencing. So if you're trying to make sense of your past, past experiences, different things within your relationship, I find that can help as well. Just knowing the difference, you can gain insight into why we do what we do. But in the very moment, take the pressure off yourself.
- [50:29]
E
Yeah. No, you're. You're so right. You're so. And that was such a relief to hear. Like, I don't really need to know. I just need to know how to get through like a Tuesday.
- [50:37]
D
Right?
- [50:38]
E
So is also. There are so many high functioning ADHDers out there. This is a spectrum. I'm sure you, you meet, you meet the entire spectrum. I'm sure we have definitely on our, on our book tour, we have met people and shook hands and hugged people who are so high on the ADHD spectrum that they can't hold a job. Right. Like, they, they are, they are really on the struggle bus. So it is hard for them to see Penn out here with jazz hands talking about how ADHD is awesome. Right? That's right. That's hard because it truly, it can be overwhelming. So talk to us about how, like there are so many high achievers and high functioning ADHDers. Like, how does that happen?
- [51:25]
D
You know, I think a big distinction to recognize is outside factors, outliers, beyond the adhd. Like, did that person grow up in an environment where their ADHD traits were supported? That can make a big difference. What kind of generational. And I don't just mean money, I even mean knowledge. What kind of generational resources as someone provided. Sometimes it can literally just be chance. Like, did you happen to interact with a professor in school who believed in you despite the fact that you couldn't hold information in your mind? You know, I think it's. It. Sometimes it can literally be the luck of the draw. And I think that's why having books like yours and podcast episodes like this are so powerful. Because sometimes it's one message that can help someone transition from I'm just struggle bus here, like you were saying, or I'm gonna step off the bus and see how I can like create a cool logo for it. And, you know, all the things that an ADHD creative brain would do.
- [52:30]
F
And I'm so glad you said that because I, I was hoping to get to this at some point.
- [52:34]
E
Sorry, sorry.
- [52:36]
F
We like. A big part of our first book is a strengths based approach. Right. That's in the entire section, part three that every coach we talked to said, that's what you do. You find out that stuff that you're good at and you focus on that and you try to recreate it whenever you can. I do believe there are a lot of strengths in ADHD also. Strengths. One of the longest monosyllabic words in the English language, second only to scranched squirrel.
- [52:59]
D
Interesting.
- [53:02]
F
But you actually, you mentioned in your book ADHD being a neuroadaptive superpower. So that was, that was a strength concept I'd never heard about. Would you please tell us all about that?
- [53:15]
D
Yes. I love this so much. So we have to look at our current environment, our current culture and technology for why and how we figured this out in the current situation we are living in. I believe the reason that we see so much more ADHD is because these sedentary, more metaphoric, more production oriented in what Tom Hartman, I believe references as the farmer world.
- [53:44]
F
Okay.
- [53:45]
D
Looks like is less adaptive for the ADHD brain that is designed for constant scanning. That's what ADHDers are designed for. ADHD years during the Industrial revolution were like killing it because they were up, they were moving, they were physical, they were mechanical. There are times in our history where the ADHD brain was what we needed. We can go all the way back to, you know, a dusty old cave with a bunch of cave people in there, the ADHD brain. Because if you look at the sleep patterns of adhd, we are biphasic sleepers, meaning that we do best when. Whether you can fit a whole nap in or you just have intentional rest. We do better when we sleep in two phases every day, which is what.
- [54:32]
E
I do with but I just thought that was menopause anyway.
- [54:37]
D
So because of that the reason is is because our brains are more designed to be more alert later in the evening.
- [54:43]
F
Okay.
- [54:45]
D
Right. Which made sense and was necessary to survive when there were, you know, animals coming to eat us. So if you look at it, we need the ADHD brain. Human humanity has always needed it. It's just now we are in a society where it doesn't exactly fit and thankfully. Honestly, I think this was a good thing that came out of COVID was we're getting a little bit more flexible about non traditional schedules and whatnot. But really for a period of time it was so overstructured. And also you look at the idea of multitasking is new and it's terrible. Yes.
- [55:22]
F
You also talk about tricks hacks like ways to kind of make the most out of your adhd. Should we give her some of our listeners and viewers who put in some of their hacks?
- [55:32]
E
More on this after these words.
- [55:34]
F
All right, Kim, I think I found my newest protein powder obsession. It's Clean Simple Eats.
- [55:40]
E
Oh, Clean Simple Eats is the best. Their protein powder is always grass fed with no seed oils or artificial ingredients. Third party tested non GMO and gluten free. Each serving has 20 grams of protein.
- [55:52]
F
Their protein powder is incredibly creamy and smooth, so of course I love to use it in a smoothie.
- [55:57]
E
They have so many different flavors to choose from and my personal favorite is the caramel toffee. They even have a protein powder variety pack so you can try individual servings of multiple flavors.
- [56:08]
F
And Kim, as I'm aging and trying to spend time in the gym to offset that, getting enough protein is a priority for me. So finding a brand I can trust that tastes good and has none of the yucky artificial stuff that is huge.
- [56:22]
E
Plus clean. Sublit also has clear protein powder. The pink burst flavor is life changing. It literally tastes like a melted pink starburst. You just mix the clear protein powder and water and get a super refreshing light drink with 20 grams of protein.
- [56:38]
F
So visit CleanSimpleats.com and use the code LAUGH20 at checkout for 20% off your first order plus free shipping.
- [56:44]
E
That's CleanSimpleats.com code LAUGH20 for 20% off your first order plus free shipping.
- [56:52]
F
You know, time is a funny thing. It's so limited. Right. We're truly feeling that right now as we pack our daughter up for her first year of college. That time is limited.
- [57:01]
E
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F
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E
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F
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E
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F
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E
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- [57:54]
F
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- [58:01]
E
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- [58:12]
F
So Stacy replaces storage containers with clear ones because there's a lot more decorative than what I used to find. I used to like to hide everything, but then if you don't see it, it doesn't exist. So clear storage containers.
- [58:24]
D
So true.
- [58:24]
E
Very true.
- [58:25]
D
Love that.
- [58:25]
E
Yeah. Okay, next one. Jen says my hack chunk it. Whether it's writing a paper, working on a project, or cleaning your room, it's easier if you break it apart into smaller tasks. We were just talking about that. That's such a good one.
- [58:38]
F
Yeah, I called them micro deadlines when I wrote the book. Like we, I had micro deadlines. Like, what can you do? Not like you have to finish this chapter of this whole book, but you need to finish this thought and you have 45 minutes instead of you have a week to do all this stuff.
- [58:50]
D
Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. Micro deadline gives you more stimulation. It's more urgent.
- [58:55]
E
And you get to have more checks on the list.
- [58:59]
D
Little dopamine. Little dopamine checks.
- [59:01]
E
I know. Love that so much.
- [59:03]
F
Betsy, when she takes a shower, she puts on music and she races the song or songs. So tries to beat the song to gamify the shower so she doesn't totally lose track of time in there.
- [59:14]
D
Wow, that's creative. I've not heard of that.
- [59:18]
E
Oh, that's.
- [59:19]
F
Yeah, that's just it. I think I've said it 14 times in this episode, but I'm going to say it again. We are so good at coming up with specific hacks for ourselves.
- [59:28]
E
Yeah, right.
- [59:29]
F
Because everyone's got their own interest based nervous system on what is challenging and new and what stuff.
- [59:34]
E
Right. Oh, okay. This one's from Mary Ashley. A really common struggle is when someone is talking or telling a story. I want to interrupt, but it's to make a connection. It might seem like you're not paying attention or you're interrupting to hijack the story, but it really, truly is just our way of connecting. So if I can't interrupt the story, but I really don't want to forget what I was about to say. I make a sign language. I make a sign language of the starting letter in my hand. And when the story is done, I look at my hand and feel the sensation of the random letter. Then I remember, wow, that's very special.
- [60:07]
D
That's amazing. She's using so many things at once.
- [60:10]
E
That's a lot for a brain to do.
- [60:11]
D
Yeah.
- [60:12]
E
Yeah. So what sort of advice do you give your. Your clients, your people about some of these? And what does your husband even use about, like how to get throughout the day?
- [60:24]
D
Me. No, I'm just kidding. Well, so I love some of those examples you gave. Actually highlight some of the exact things that I always recommend, which is we have to look to the research a little bit. Research shows that ADHDers, for example, we look at college semesters, they do better with mini semest than they do traditional semesters. Right. So because we're all looking at the right level of stimulation. That's why I call it false deadlines. For me, I'll say, okay, I got this deadline. I have to do this thing. It's really not due for three weeks, but oh my gosh, it needs to be done this week. So. Creating a false sense of urgency. But you have to have a way to track that that works for you. So for me, it could be something in my calendar. And that brings up two of those examples were visual. The one with the containers.
- [61:17]
E
Yes.
- [61:18]
D
And then the one with the hand was physical and visual. So some ADHD really need to see something to get triggered. I want to be clear that there's a misnomer out there that people with ADHD have. What is the phenomenon? I'm fretting in it, forgetting it, where something disappears after it's gone. Object permanence.
- [61:40]
E
Yes, I got it.
- [61:42]
D
That's untrue. I just want to be really clear. Someone with ADHD doesn't forget you exist just because you left the room.
- [61:49]
E
Yeah.
- [61:50]
D
Okay, let's. Let's get rid of this. It's a myth. However behaviorally it can look like that. So having visual cues is everything. But this is where I think people with ADHD get frustrated because they try a visual cue that maybe works. Works for a neuronormative or maybe works for someone else like a calendar, and that's not of enough interest to them. You were saying, like special interest. The music. You have to pick cues that are most interesting to you.
- [62:21]
F
Yep.
- [62:22]
D
If that makes sense.
- [62:23]
F
Yeah, it's. So, again, the things that the ADHD brain likes are new or novel. Right. Something you haven't seen before. Challenging, like something that's. That's tough to deal with and of personal interest. Those are the three things that if we can put everything right down that alley, we can be better at functioning than the neurotypical brain. It just doesn't always line up that way. And you have to find ways, to your point to try to gamify it a little bit.
- [62:49]
D
That's actually really smart too, because if you think about it, the more Right. Level of stimulation the ADHD brain gets, the more the brain is able to orchestrate itself. I think people have a misconception that the ADHD brain is underactive in the sense of focus. Like we're just not focusing. We're not paying attention. But in reality, the whole brain is functioning. The whole brain is working at once and stimulation being added, whether it be a medication, whether it be a gamified song, whether it be the visual of something in a container. What it does is it adds a conductor to the party. The. The conductor literally telling the orchestra, okay, you play now, you play now. It helps the brain work. Work in a more syncopated, organized way. So doing these things that add stimulation actually calm your nervous system, which sounds very contradictory, but it's what science points to.
- [63:46]
F
Yeah. Our conductors usually suck, so that's great. To in any way you can find a good conductor.
- [63:52]
E
That is the best explanation I've heard because when. When talking about medication and there's. There's some that are stimulants. I'm like, these people need more energy. So. But that explains it why perfectly. Okay, this took a wild left turn, but I appreciate you so much.
- [64:10]
D
Where.
- [64:11]
E
Where should people find. Where can people find you? We'll obviously put your book in our show notes, but let us know how people can get in touch with you.
- [64:19]
D
Absolutely. So my website is just my name, Dr. Amelia Kelly. Really excited. It's going to be revamped in the next week with lots of really great resources for folks. I'm pretty active on Instagram. Just Just at my name, Dr. Amelia Kelly. And I'm actually local to you guys. My private practice is Kelly Counseling and Wellness, located right near the Trader Joe's in Cary. So it's wonderful.
- [64:44]
E
Well, lucky us that she's local because.
- [64:46]
F
Kim's booking an appointment.
- [64:50]
E
Kim's got some work to do, so. But I really appreciate your time. Is there anything that we didn't get to. Because, I mean, we had a whole lot. Long list of questions. Is there anything else that you want to talk about that we didn't get to.
- [65:02]
D
I think there's just one other thing that I want to make sure we touch on to make everything we talked about work better.
- [65:08]
E
Great.
- [65:08]
D
And it's. I had mentioned the word masking. Unmasking your adhd, letting people know that it is part of you, that it is an adaptive part of you. What it does is it actually allows you to do these things because as long as you're masked, it's a lot harder to use all the skills. But saying something simply like, when I'm meeting with a client and I say I'm going to send a letter for them, in the middle of the session, I will literally look at my client and say, you know, I'm not going to remember to do this unless I do this right now, so let me just go ahead and do it. That's unmasking. And if we don't do that, we can't be our best selves and.
- [65:48]
E
Amen. And unmasking is a very vulnerable thing to do.
- [65:53]
D
Absolutely.
- [65:55]
E
Showing your true self like that. So.
- [65:57]
D
Takes courage.
- [65:57]
E
Takes courage. Okay, so I have all of Dr. Kelly's information. We'll be. But thank you. Thank you, thank you. This has been great. Thank you.
- [66:07]
D
Awesome. It was so nice meeting you guys. Thank you for having me.
- [66:11]
E
Okay. Sorry, guys. Making that a personal counseling appointment.
- [66:15]
F
Okay, girl, stop apologizing. Like, why. Why are you apologizing for this?
- [66:23]
E
I mean, yes, I love this podcast. You and I do get to chit chat and have deep conversations, but really, I would hope that people listening were able to learn something. But I don't know if it's possible to learn something if I make it all about me. But my hope is that maybe if somebody else has the same questions, I don't know that we got answers necessarily, but that they're better equipped to ask the question.
- [66:55]
F
You doing this is helping other people realize this. I don't want you to minimize what just happened. Like it might be important. Like, it's. Kim, you. You might discover some more things about yourself. As a result of this, it sounds like you did. And don't trivialize it.
- [67:12]
E
I'm feeling so many things lately. It's just so hard to feel everything. Yeah, I know. I know. Okay. It's just, I. It feels overwhelming.
- [67:21]
F
I know. You don't have to do it right now. I don't want to overwhelm you, but I also don't you to forget this conversation and say, you know what? Let's just move on. There's too much going on because there was some really valuable stuff in there.
- [67:31]
E
She's great.
- [67:32]
F
Honestly, I can't diagnose you. I mean, there were some things that obviously hit close to home for you, and I think it's. Honestly, it's going to come down to unwinding what your childhood was like, which is a deep dive because that's the way that they diagnose is. Okay. These things that you thought you didn't have, you were actually masking because of this. And that is such a relatable thing for any woman who gets diagnosed with this because they're doing the exact same thing. They go back and look and they say, oh, this didn't happen to me in childhood. And then they ask these questions and, oh, hang on a second.
- [68:05]
E
And I think I. I probably have a very different case than most people in the country is that we have a New York Times bestselling book that says, I do not have adhd, and I have taken the role of the person who does not have it, and we've done a thousand interviews saying, I do not have it. So for me to be like, whoopsie, psych. It just feels like I feel embarrassed not to have adhd. ADHD is great. I love it. It's awesome. But I would feel embarrassed to then say, oh, actually, I do have it. After saying, no, I don't.
- [68:51]
F
Okay, everything that you just said is valid, but you saying, wait, I have it is not a whoopsie. It is a sign of the times. It is affirmation of everything that we just talked about in the last hour that this hides in plain sight in women. I think it would be like, I think what she said that was the most important thing to me is how. How important it was for me when it was unmasked, when I realized that this was what I had. I'm not saying you have it. I'm not a doctor. I'm not going to diagnose you here. But you publicly saying, oh, wait, I also have ADHD does nothing to this particular messaging that we have it. Actually confirms it. I also, I'd also just like you to be. I want you to get better or feel. Be the best version of yourself. And isn't that like, knowing what you are? Let me ask you this, like, what you just learned, what you just heard. If I asked you like, deep down in your heart and you had to guess, do you have adhd?
- [69:56]
E
I have a lot of the symptoms of adhd.
- [69:59]
F
So if you had a lot of symptoms of cancer.
- [70:02]
E
Oh, oh, my God.
- [70:04]
F
You're gonna go get tested for it though. That's what I'm saying. With, with the people around you. If you like, if I have like a tiny sniffle, I'm. You are bringing a COVID test home to me.
- [70:15]
E
Sure.
- [70:16]
F
True or false?
- [70:17]
D
True.
- [70:17]
F
Yeah. I think like, I think like one time we, I, I jumped in a, in a, on a warm lake and you were worried for like three weeks that I had flesh because you saw something about brain eating amoebas. I'm still here. But like, let's, let's give you the same self care that you give to the family around you. And not in no way should you ever feel embarrassed or like you're. Screw the company or whatever the book is or anything else like this. You like, you realize if you get diagnosed with adhd, you get the welcome to the club treatment, right? Like, they're like, it's, it is a cool brain that once you realize what it is, you're going to get even more out of your life than you did before. And I 100 believe that.
- [71:01]
E
It's just a lot.
- [71:02]
F
Okay, well, I'll stop.
- [71:04]
E
No, honestly, if you're gonna get diagnosed with adhd, you should do it in the holderness house, because it is, you know, when our son got diagnosed, it was daunting to hear in the car, like the sitting in the, you know, doctor's office in the car at home. But then it was like streamers and balloons and. Yeah, so this is a good house to have it. Anywho, it is making me sweat to have it all about me right now. Can we go back to the laugh line? Don't we have like, can we change the subject to somebody else? Isn't there somebody. Sam, who are we hearing from?
- [71:36]
F
Yeah, Sam, let's go to anyone else talking. Go.
- [71:41]
D
We did get a lot more voicemails of some tips, so I think we should head back to Laughline.
- [71:45]
F
Yes, let's do it.
- [71:46]
G
So the thing that we do for adhd, because my daughter and I both have adhd, is we use Alexa routines for Everything from telling her to brush her teeth to when she's supposed to get dressed to when she's supposed to put her shoes on. And then it plays a song, a different song every day that we have scheduled. And so she knows when she hears that song, that's, like, just about time to, like, walk out the door. And then Alexa goes, okay, it's time to leave. But, yeah, that's how we get through our mornings every single day.
- [72:13]
E
Idea.
- [72:14]
F
I know what you're doing. This is Kim's favorite activity.
- [72:17]
E
It's when I tell people. I tell Pen to write a song is my favorite activity.
- [72:21]
F
But you want me to write one for each thing, right?
- [72:23]
E
Well, how funny. I'm just thinking for our, like, son, if we. I would have to figure out how to use Alexa, but is there a way we could load sounds on, like, songs onto. So that people could play them on Alexa?
- [72:37]
F
That's their.
- [72:38]
E
So he could sing wake up. He could sing brush your teeth. He could sing put on your shoes and not long, like a 7 second, 10 seconds.
- [72:46]
F
Do you think our son's gonna want to hear my voice?
- [72:49]
E
No. Laura calling from Spain. What? The laugh lines is international, guys.
- [72:55]
F
Oh, my gosh.
- [72:55]
E
We are international.
- [72:56]
F
Hi, Laura.
- [72:57]
G
Hello. This is Laura from Barcelona. Barcelona, Spain. So things that I have figured out help me whenever I'm procrastinating, especially tasks that are paperwork, super boring paperwork. I raise myself to a song. So I put a song, and I promised myself I am going to be sitting in front of the computer by the time the song finishes and racing myself. I get to start. Then I put the visual timing so I can see that. And I usually once you are in the task for more than five minutes, you kind of are in the groove and you want to finish it.
- [73:39]
E
I'm hearing a lot of music.
- [73:41]
F
Music. And so that she's saying racing. It's so funny because we talked about racing thoughts. This is a different, like, positive type of racing, I think, in a lot of situations because you. You, if you have adhd, like, beating the clock is really cool.
- [73:53]
E
Cool. It's a competition.
- [73:55]
F
Yeah.
- [73:55]
E
Oh, I love that.
- [73:56]
F
Yeah, I really love that too. And thank you for calling us from Spain. Barcelona is so beautiful.
- [73:59]
E
Barcelona, I've never been. I want to go.
- [74:02]
F
It's beautiful. It's a spectacular city.
- [74:04]
E
I'm gonna go. Okay. And we have a call from Japan.
- [74:09]
F
Is it a call or just a nice little note? It's a nice little note from Sachiko Nakagomi. I'm a university English teacher in Tokyo, and I've introduced your YouTube channel. The most of the 300 students I teach every semester. We have a blast watching your parody videos in.
- [74:25]
E
Oh, yay. Well, hello, class.
- [74:27]
F
Yes. And then I don't have the next page.
- [74:29]
E
Okay. You've educated a whole generation of Japanese students.
- [74:34]
F
Oh, wow.
- [74:35]
D
Aw.
- [74:35]
E
Hello. My hack is to color code everything I teach at three universities and I put color stickers on all the file folders, textbooks, et cetera. So I know which university things are for. I love a color code, you guys. I love a color code.
- [74:52]
F
Do you know how many times we've been to book signings and there's teenagers who show up and I don't know why. It's mostly the teenagers at this point. I haven't seen it from an adult or from like a younger kid who wants us to sign their book. And they have these tabs that are different colors. Do you remember these?
- [75:08]
E
Oh, yeah.
- [75:08]
F
We saw, I think, I think we saw four or five of them and I asked about them. They're like, well, so this is something funny. This is something.
- [75:15]
E
They all meant something.
- [75:16]
F
Yeah, yeah. Like this is for. This is for chores. And this is for when I need to pick me up, when I need, like someone to tell me everything's going to be okay. And there were three colors. Nuts.
- [75:25]
E
Okay, so this is the last one before we say goodbye. And this is from Tim. I love this. He said, I started a business that allows my ADHD to be a superpower instead of a hindrance. I'm a home inspector and I follow a list on my inspections, but I'm able to jump from section to section in response to the different home layouts or conditions I'm expecting. So he has been able to gamify. It sounds like his job, job and get through them quickly. I love that he found a career that allows him to really harness all the good stuff about the ADHD brain.
- [76:01]
F
That's the dream, right? The dream is finding something that, that keeps your brain occupied and, and gives you a sense of permanence when it comes to your career.
- [76:13]
E
And I think as, as a parent, you hear all these like, waxes, statistics about what ADHD kids can't do, you know, and what will be hard for them. So to hear examples. And I would love you guys to send these in to, as a parent to hear examples of ways it helps you in your job. It's just like, it's just so cool to hear.
- [76:36]
F
And one last note. Parents for a kid with adhd. I'm gonna wrap with this because it hit me Like a sledgehammer that Statistically, kids with ADHD are corrected 10,000 times by the time they're 12 years old. Do you remember that bit?
- [76:50]
E
I know. And then I feel like, how many times I had to redirect my son?
- [76:53]
F
I'm thinking of the exact same thing right now.
- [76:56]
E
Well.
- [76:58]
F
Look, you got to do what you got to do. I'm not saying don't correct them, but isn't that like a wild statistic?
- [77:02]
E
Yeah.
- [77:02]
F
Why are we ending with that? I'm sorry. No, we're not being bummed out.
- [77:05]
E
No, no, we're not ending with that. Because remember when Molly called at the beginning, the beginning of the episode, she presented a word of preppy.
- [77:12]
F
Oh, yeah.
- [77:13]
E
Preppy being new, we wanted to find the new meeting for the older generation. So what is Gen Z saying?
- [77:20]
F
First of all, let's talk about what we thought preppy meant.
- [77:23]
E
Preppy was people who wore, like, the Ralph Lauren.
- [77:28]
F
Yeah. Like the. Like the collared shirts.
- [77:30]
E
Collared shirts.
- [77:30]
F
Preppy was always either a collared shirt or like a blazer. Or like, to me, it always, always seemed like preppy meant you were dressing like you were rich.
- [77:38]
E
Right. And so where I grew up, it wasn't necessarily a compliment.
- [77:43]
F
What does it mean now?
- [77:44]
E
We went to the Internet.
- [77:45]
F
Okay.
- [77:45]
E
And then we asked Lola to confirm it, and she has confirmed that preppy has been defined mostly by Gen Alpha over the last year. It's bright clothing, all of those things. But it really describes it as somebody who's very on trend. Very girly, but very trendy. Okay, so.
- [78:05]
F
So not necessarily Coll shirts.
- [78:07]
E
It's just, like, bright pinks and like Lululemon. But it's. It's a trendy thing, so it's more of a compliment.
- [78:15]
F
Okay. Okay, well, that's good. They've made it a more positive term, so it's not.
- [78:19]
E
It's very girly, very colorful smiley face designs. Preppy. Okay, so I. Molly, did we get that right? You tell us. Call back in with parents permission, give consent and have permission, and then call us to tell us if we got that right, Molly. Okay. Thank you for joining us here on the Laugh Lines for being titled the Laugh Lines. I sure have been crying a lot lately.
- [78:43]
F
Laughing and crying.
- [78:46]
E
Okay, you have to do the credits.
- [78:47]
F
Okay. Laugh Lines is written and produced by Kim Holderness, Pen Holderness and Ann Marie Tapke with original music by Pen Holderness. It is filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by acast. As always, we love to hear from you. And as you. You heard from this show. If you write to us or call us, we gonna put you on the show. So please write to us at podcastheholdernessfamily.com.
- [79:07]
E
Or leave a voicemail at 323-364-3929 and.
- [79:12]
F
We will talk to you soon on the Laughline.
- [79:14]
E
Bye.
- [79:17]
F
Hey, this is Freddy from Dungeons and Daddies and if you're like me, buying anything turns into a nightmare research spiral. But listen, you're trying to upgrade your phone. I'm about to save you from yourself. Because right now you can get the new iPhone 16e with Apple Intelligence for when you switch at your nearest Boost mobile store. That's a brand spanking new iPhone 16e for the incredible price of $49.99. Plus you're getting all the latest Apple Intelligence features too, like Cleanup, which removes distractions from photos with just a tap. Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store for full offer details. Apple intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later.
- [79:51]
C
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- [80:52]
H
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