Weighted Vests & So Much Protein with Dr. Mary Claire Haver

Summary

Summary of "Weighted Vests & So Much Protein with Dr. Mary Claire Haver" - Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness

Release Date: August 12, 2025

In this engaging episode of Laugh Lines with Kim & Penn Holderness, the hosts welcome Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a board-certified OB/GYN and menopause specialist. The conversation delves deep into the benefits and considerations of using weighted vests for bone and muscle health, especially among aging women, and underscores the critical role of protein intake during menopause. True to the show's essence, the discussion blends informative insights with humor, making complex health topics accessible and relatable.

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1. Introduction to Women's Aging and Health Needs

Dr. Mary Claire Haver opens the discussion by highlighting a significant gap in the healthcare industry: “The health industry, especially when it comes to aging, hasn’t really focused on women’s unique needs. It’s often based around men’s biology, leaving many women feeling overlooked or misunderstood.” (00:28)

Dr. Haver emphasizes that the physiological changes women undergo during menopause—such as shifts in energy and focus—are not mere inconveniences but signals that warrant attention and proactive healthcare measures.

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2. Exploring Weighted Vests for Bone and Muscle Health

The conversation shifts to weighted vests as a tool for enhancing bone density and muscle strength. Kim Holderness shares her personal journey: “I started digging into the data around osteoporosis... I had never heard of a weighted vest before... I start seeing these articles pop up... so what interventions could we do to help them decrease their risk of falling, improve their balance and improve their bone strength?” (26:27)

Dr. Haver explains the scientific backing behind this approach, noting that studies have shown promising results in using weighted vests to mitigate bone loss and enhance balance, thereby reducing the risk of falls among aging women.

Penn Holderness raises concerns about the lack of regulation and the potential for misuse: “It’s almost like AI. There’s no regulation for weighted vests at this point. And so people are getting hurt a lot.” (30:30)

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3. Safe Usage and Best Practices

To ensure safety, Dr. Haver advises starting with a lower weight and gradually increasing it, aiming for about 10% of one’s body weight: “So, work up to 10%, right?” _(32:17)

Kim elaborates on her own regimen: “I wear it when I am walking, when I’m doing housework, when I’m doing activities I would otherwise normally do, even when I’m sitting at my desk because I know it’s helping me with balance, it’s helping me with core strength.” (29:07)

The hosts discuss the importance of not overloading and ensuring that the use of weighted vests complements other forms of exercise, such as weight training, rather than replacing them.

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4. Addressing Concerns and Negative Feedback

The episode acknowledges the varied reactions from listeners regarding weighted vests. Some express skepticism or concern over potential injuries, while others offer alternative solutions. Dr. Haver mentions: “They really wanted me to know how bad it is. They really thought I was getting paid for.” (35:25)

Kim reflects on the backlash from certain professionals: “I think, you know, the strongest worded... is someone who’s trying to sell an alternative.” (36:43)

Despite the negativity, the hosts emphasize the importance of evidence-based discussions and encourage listeners to consult healthcare professionals before integrating weighted vests into their routines.

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5. The Role of Protein and Creatine in Menopause

Shifting focus, the discussion delves into protein intake and creatine supplementation as essential components for maintaining muscle mass during menopause. Kim shares her high-protein diet: “For me, it’s 100 to 120 grams per day... I make my shake in the morning and I’ve got Greek yogurt, a scoop of protein powder, some collagen, I’ve got creatine in there...” (43:18)

Dr. Haver explains the physiological necessity: “Protein intake is tied to that now. We have to work that muscle, but we also have to provide the substrate, which is the protein intake, so that we are able to lay down that new muscle as it’s being chewed up.” (43:14)

Penn inquires about the dosage and benefits of creatine: “So how much? Like, how. How many.” (45:04)

Dr. Haver responds with evidence-based recommendations: “Most of the studies on women were done three to five grams per day.” (45:48)

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6. Personal Anecdotes and Humor

The conversation is peppered with personal stories that add a layer of humor and relatability. Penn recounts his forgetfulness: “I’ve left my keys on top of a car at the beach... We survived that.” (57:53)

Dr. Haver shares her challenge with always saying "I'm fine" despite not feeling it, leading to a heartfelt moment: “...that moment, I need to. Because it’s not fine. It is absolutely not fine.” (08:44)

These anecdotes reinforce the show's theme of navigating aging with honesty and laughter.

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7. Managing Menopause Symptoms

Dr. Haver details her personal strategies for managing menopause symptoms, particularly sleep disturbances: “We came up with a little cocktail for me that is magnesium... and a little bit of melatonin.” (48:26)

The hosts discuss the impact of medications like sildenafil (Viagra) on improving nighttime urination for men, tying it back to overall quality of life and sleep: “He takes it during the day. It like lasts for 24 hours.” (51:44)

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8. Navigating AI and Online Content

A lighter segment touches on the challenges of AI and deepfakes, with Dr. Haver sharing her experience of being deceived by a manipulated video: “There’s a video... two bunnies morph in the middle of the video, and it’s five bunnies, which doesn’t happen in nature.” (38:12)

Kim humorously admits falling for the trick: “I fell for this. AI, my God.” (37:59)

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9. Closing Remarks and Takeaways

As the episode concludes, the hosts recap the essential points discussed and express gratitude to Dr. Haver for her valuable insights. They emphasize the importance of informed decision-making and encourage listeners to integrate healthy practices mindfully.

Dr. Haver adds a final thought on the interconnectedness of bone and muscle health: “So, you know, we have to work that muscle, but we also have to provide the substrate, which is the protein intake...” (43:14)

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Notable Quotes

• Dr. Mary Claire Haver (00:28): “The health industry, especially when it comes to aging, hasn’t really focused on women’s unique needs. It’s often based around men’s biology, leaving many women feeling overlooked or misunderstood.”

• Kim Holderness (26:27): “...what interventions could we do to help them decrease their risk of falling, improve their balance and improve their bone strength?”

• Dr. Mary Claire Haver (31:28): “But loaded training, you know, putting extra load on more than your body weight is always going to be beneficial. But again, we can overdo anything in life and end up injured.”

• Kim Holderness (43:18): “For me, it’s 100 to 120 grams per day... I drink that over two to three hours.”

• Penn Holderness (57:53): “I’ve left my keys on top of a car at the beach... We survived that.”

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Key Takeaways

1. Weighted Vests as a Tool: Weighted vests can be beneficial for improving bone density and balance, especially in aging women, but they must be used correctly to avoid injuries.

2. Protein and Creatine Importance: Adequate protein intake and creatine supplementation are crucial for maintaining muscle mass and bone health during menopause.

3. Personal Health Strategies: Integrating simple health tools and supplements into daily routines can have significant long-term benefits for aging individuals.

4. Holistic Approach to Aging: Combining physical tools like weighted vests with nutritional strategies fosters a comprehensive approach to healthy aging.

5. Humor in Health Discussions: Addressing aging and health concerns with humor makes the conversation more relatable and less daunting.

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This episode of Laugh Lines successfully blends expert insights with personal anecdotes, providing listeners with actionable information to navigate the complexities of aging with strength, balance, and a good sense of humor.

Transcript

[Kim Holderness]

Out here, it's not only the amazing views, but the way time stretches out a little longer and how the breeze hits just right at the summit. With alltrails, you can discover nature's best with over 450,000 trails around the world. Download the free app today.

[Penn Holderness]

This show is sponsored by Midi Health Penn.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Did you know that all the research on bird calls has been done on male birds?

[Penn Holderness]

You have told me that. And yes, you're very into birds right now.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

But with the bird thing. Okay, and the male. Does that sound like anything el else you might know the health industry, especially when it comes to aging, it hasn't really focused on women's unique needs. It's often based around men's biology, leaving many women feeling overlooked or misunderstood.

[Penn Holderness]

And I know you know what? That really stinks. Especially with a little Miss Perry menopause around some of the time.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Some of the time, yes, Perry does make an appearance. Okay, seriously. Women are experiencing those shifts that come with aging, whether it's your energy or focus. But these aren't things to just deal with, you know.

[Penn Holderness]

No, these are signals that your body needs attention and you deserve a healthcare partner who truly gets it.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That's where Midi Health's age well visit comes in. Longevity Care Designed by women for women.

[Penn Holderness]

Midi'S expert clinicians are deeply attuned to women's bodies, hormones and busy lives.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

They offer personalized evidence based care plans. Whether you're looking to prevent future health issues, stay mentally sharp, or just feel.

[Penn Holderness]

More like yourself, you know aging is inevitable. But how you age, that's completely in your hands.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Your health is worth it. Book your virtual [e-mail] that's join M I D I.com this is an ad by BetterHelp. These days it feels like there's advice for everything. Cold plunges, Gratitude journals. Screen detoxes.

[Penn Holderness]

Weighted vests. Kim.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Weighted vests. Exactly. But how do you know what exactly works for you?

[Penn Holderness]

Well, with the Internet and information overload about mental health and wellness, it can be a struggle to know what's true and and what actions you should take.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

These days, using trusted resources and talking to live therapists, you can get personalized recommendations and help you break through the noise.

[Penn Holderness]

Therapy isn't just for those who've experienced major trauma. It can be helpful for learning positive coping skills and how to set boundaries.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally.

[Penn Holderness]

The reviews speak for themselves. An average rating of 4.4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It's convenient, too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus switch therapist at any time.

[Penn Holderness]

As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Talk it out with Better.

[Penn Holderness]

Help our listeners, by the way, get 10% off their first [e-mail] Holderness that's BetterHelp.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

H E L P.com Holderness I have suitcases full of emotional baggage that I'm carrying, but it's not helping me prepare for a fall late in life. Keep em going if I have to eat any more protein. We started with weight of est. We went into creatine, and now we're talking about erections.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, we get older every day. Got more wrinkles. That's okay. Yeah, we're laughing. When we age, life is like a comedy stage. And that's why we got laugh lines.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Hi, everybody. I'm Kim Holderness.

[Penn Holderness]

And I'm Penn Holderness. You have found us on laugh lines. We're here. So are you.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And so are you. And if you have a random bag of cords to electronics that you no longer own, you're home. We are your people.

[Penn Holderness]

We are your people. And we've got them, too. In fact, it would take four steps to get into the attic we where I have like, it goes from like one closet to a junk drawer to the attic of the. We probably won't ever need these, but there's a huge box and then eventually those get dumped out. And as soon as they get dumped out, we need them.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I don't know if we're going to need them, babe. I feel like if there were a very specific hoarding show on hoarding electronic cords, I could. Hoarding hoarding. I would submit you to be.

[Penn Holderness]

Thanks. I mean, we do run a company with electronics. And so like every time. Every time, Sam. Every time, Sam. I'm just saying every time we've thrown something out, three days later we're like, you know what we could really use.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Is that random black cord with.

[Penn Holderness]

No, it's. No, it's like a camera, like a gimbal camera that needs a charger and it's a specific charger and that was a cord that I threw out.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It's the big cord industry. Big cords out to get you. In addition to my husband's hoarding habit, we have another quick update. Our new children's Book all you can be with ADHD is available for pre order now.

[Penn Holderness]

We have in person events that we have planned. We have trips around the country planned. We have reading to schools planned. We have music videos planned that are going to help give you a little bit of a tease of some of the illustrations, which are amazing. This is something that we are deeply proud of because we heard you guys when you said, hey, your first book was great. Do you have anything for kids? We do.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I know. I'm so excited for this school visit. It's going to be so great. Anyway, check the show notes. There's a link in bio to join our newsletter and we can keep you updated and all that good stuff. Today's episode is a good one. We have a guest, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. Love her. Has become a really good friend and we cover a lot, guys. We cover weighted vest, creatine, Viagra. We were all over the place. It was real good Viagra.

[Penn Holderness]

That was eye opening and I'd like to know more.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Stay tuned, guys.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, guys, summer's just about over and like this is. It's been my favorite part of this podcast this summer has just been checking in with my wife. Right? It has been because I feel like I don't know that we have time to do it other than like sitting right here. So what's like, what's the latest with you? What's going on? Give me, give me your latest life update this summer.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It is sort of a joke. We do say our podcast is our favorite thing because that's when we can actually talk to each other. I have made it a priority for me to stop saying it's fine, it's fine, everything's fine.

[Penn Holderness]

I've heard you say that.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

So people would ask me how you, you know, you're dealing with Lola going off to college and I would always say it's fine and get really high pitched. But really I was pushing everything down. We've seen on a recent podcast where I had a little menti b with my mascara dripping is an abbreviation for But I just was not serving me. And this is going to be a hard habit for me to break to stop saying I'm fine because I'm super not fine a lot of the times. So we were in an airport. This is how it all came to head. We were in airport. We were flying down to Florida for my stepmother's funeral. She passed very suddenly, very tragically. We're all heartbroken and so we're super not fine like my dad. It's her. Her Children, her boys, my dad. Like, it's just super not fine. We're in the airport, in a restaurant, and this is what I try not to do. And it was awful. I had a very large glass of wine. Do not recommend that, because it was, like, making me feel all the feelings. And we were sitting in a restaurant in a very sweet family. She was a teacher, and her three girls came over. Sorry to disturb you. Could I get a picture? And she was very kind, very sweet. No problem with the interaction at all. She very politely asked, are you going somewhere fun on vacation? And normally I just would have said, because not wanting to make it too heavy for people, I would have said, oh, we're gonna go to Florida just to visit some family. I would have just kept it light. But I felt she was really. I felt I could be honest. I said, actually, we're headed to Florida for my stepmom's funeral. And she goes, oh, my gosh. I'm so. Like, I'm so sorry. And I go, you know, it's fine. It's fine. And then I stopped. I'm like, oh, my gosh. What am I saying? It is not fine. It is absolutely not fine. So in that moment, I need to. Because it's not fine. It was awful.

[Penn Holderness]

But you didn't mean it's fine that you asked that. It's.

[Kim Holderness]

It.

[Penn Holderness]

I mean, so I think. Were you trying to be polite and say it's fine that you asked that?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I was saying. I was saying. I felt I was using it, like, because her reaction was, oh, my gosh, how are you doing? And I said, it's fine. Nothing about. It was. Of course it was. It was not inappropriate that she asked that. My answer was inappropriate. And then I answered it was fine because.

[Penn Holderness]

Because you're saying it's fine to just kind of keep her moving and not have to talk about things that are. Are difficult?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

You didn't want to put the burden on her of having this, like, awkward conversation about death when she just wants.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

To, like, make conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And she was very kind. And so it wasn't like that. But I'm like, yeah, it's. I think I even said, it's good. It's fine. And I was like, oh, wait, no, it's not good. It's awful. And so I think that I am using. We even made a T shirt at one point, guys. Because I say it's fine so often. So over the last week, I've really been trying to stop saying it's fine, but that just means if you run into me at Target, be ready. Be ready. Because yesterday I went to Target twice for dorm shopping, and I ran into somebody I know, and I know her well, but we're not best friends. We just, like, kind of have crossed paths with children the same age over the. She's like, how are you doing? I'm like, this is hot garbage. This sucks.

[Penn Holderness]

And didn't she feel like she could open up to you after that as well?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah, I mean, she was. Yeah. Like, her eyes were red, too. I mean, we were both, you know, shopping for dorm stuff, so just be prepared. If you ask me how I'm doing now, I'm gonna try to give you a real answer. So just.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, we're making some real progress on this. On this. Saying what we really feel. I think earlier this summer, we decided that when we asked. But when people ask us how we're doing, instead of saying great all the time, if we're not doing great, we say medium.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Medium.

[Penn Holderness]

Like, that's. Or people always ask how my mom's doing. She's in skilled nursing. She's like, deep advanced Alzheimer's. I'm not going to say she's doing great. Medium. I mean, I'm a cousin of mine.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

We could even say bad. Yeah, she's not doing great. I think we could promote her to not great. Like, what's the scale? It's fine.

[Penn Holderness]

She's been like this for, like, two or three years now, so it's actually. It's medium. It's baseline. It's also amazing that she's still kicking. Like, I.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

She needs to be studied.

[Penn Holderness]

She will be studied. They're going to study her brain, but they need to study her. Like, how the heck did you keep doing this?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

So, yeah, medium.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Medium, right. Mary Holderness is medium.

[Penn Holderness]

You know, Can I, like, just add something about this, please? A buddy of mine was asking about my mom and saying, like this. You know, this. She. She hasn't. Has she really had any, like, cognitive thought? I'm like, I don't know. Maybe not. I'm not sure. And he's like, boys, I know that's hard for you. Do you think that's hard for her? And this came out of my mouth for the first time. I was like, you know what? My mom hasn't had peace and quiet for her entire life. She's had to put up with me. Oh, wow. And before that, with my dad.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

I wonder if she's just not super enjoying the peace and quiet. And that's why she's like, you know what? I can handle this for a little while. Just peace and qu. Never had it.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Oh, okay. If you're new. If you're a new podcast listener. Pen's mom is in deep stages of Alzheimer. His dad passed from dementia two years ago. Three years ago.

[Penn Holderness]

It was two years ago.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Two years ago. I. My theory. I love that theory. Although I know she loves you deeply. She loves you deeply and loved your brother and your dad to the point where I think the reason she's still here is she's still waiting for your dad to come, which is like, makes me cry every time.

[Penn Holderness]

It's very sweet. I think she just wants peace and quiet.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

She had two boys, a really loud husband.

[Penn Holderness]

Because then she'll be back with dad and be like, what have you been up to? Tell me everything that's happened in the last two years. Foghorn Leghorn. He doesn't sound that much like Fargo and Lego.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

He talks a little bit like. Sounds a little bit like Heywood Holderness Societic. Okay. Anyway.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. Here we go.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Here we go.

[Penn Holderness]

We can't get to our guests without.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Some sort of trauma segueing to our very popular, wonderful guess. We're going to tell you about a video and this was sort of the inspiration I had text the group because my home office sits by just the window out looking in the street. And every single person that walked by in the. This one morning, men and women were wearing weighted vest. And they're all middle aged people. So I thought it'd be funny and very easy. Took us less than 42 seconds to shoot.

[Penn Holderness]

Really quick.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

How about somebody's handing me the weighted vest, I put it on and I walk off proudly. And we. We title it every Middle Aged Woman Right now with that Lion King music where they go, it is time. Yeah. And there you go. Shot it in 42 seconds. And so happens in social media, it gets a lot of traction very quickly. It got many millions of views, a lot of comments, a lot of them hilarious. Some had deep feelings about weighted vests.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, we. We've put them into three buckets and we can very quickly read these to you.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah. From Sarah, who has a picture of herself wearing the weighted vest saying, oh, my goodness, just go out for a workout. And this shows up and that's a photo of her. The algorithm was algorithming because.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes, algorithmic.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It was very algorithmic, Becky.

[Penn Holderness]

I feel a special kinship when walking in my dorky weighted vest and see another woman in hers.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I know. It's like we have special little wave. We do like, hi, you're worried about bone density too?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay. Kara, you know how there's been a jeep wave? There should be a woman with weighted vest wave. What should our wave be?

[Penn Holderness]

That's a good question. I think I know.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Like, I don't know enough about gang signals.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, we're going to. We're going to workshop that. Serena. I love this one because I've always thought this. Mine looks like a bulletproof vest. Lol. I'm sure people wonder what I'm up to. It does. It either looks like a bulletproof vest or a tactical vest or somebody in like a movie who strapped a bomb to their chest.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

So one of those things. I have recently upgraded my weighted vest. I'm waiting for it to come into a mail because I needed. I need like a zip up one who like displaces the weight better. And it looks like a weighted. It looks like a bulletproof vest.

[Penn Holderness]

There you go. Last one. DJ Said you need to make a weighted vest called the holder harness.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Merch.

[Penn Holderness]

Is it a harness like in the crotchal area though? Like a harness is like.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I think a harness can be anything.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, fair enough.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Holder harness. I love it.

[Penn Holderness]

DJ I think that'd be a good name for an adult diaper if we get to that point.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Oh, you know what? That's when we're doing our podcast from the old folks home that add that to the merch list. Sam.

[Penn Holderness]

All right, so moving on, let's go to people who are vest. Curious.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Curious.

[Penn Holderness]

Nathan. Interesting. He thought that it was a cooling vest for people in perimenopause.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I will say I used to be. I'm not going to say it was a long distance runner. I used to do half marathons and I used to have a vest that had like I could put the little goos in and stuff. And so in the very beginning I thought that's what it was. I thought it was like for ultra marathon. Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Chrissy, does putting on a heavy backpack and walking around Magic Kingdom count?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yes. Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

We've been rocking our whole lives and we just didn't know it.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Absolutely. Laura. Weighted vest and cottage cheese have certainly they're having their moment. Let me tell you about this. Okay. Cottage. So it's the protein thing and we're going to talk to Dr. Mary Claire Haver about this. It has become my full time job trying to enough protein so recently and you didn't even know this. I made a salad dressing with. I put in like a cup of cottage cheese and basil and I like. I dressed it up and it was really good. But how to get protein in my flipping salad dressing anyway? Cottage cheese. Jay, how about a backpack with a sandbag in it?

[Penn Holderness]

I'm feeling you, Jay. He's like talking about rucking. They have these ruck backpacks that you buy and they're like $500 and then the weights are like a hundred dollars a piece. And my initial thought was like, why not just put a bunch of sand in it?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah. I will say, when we were getting ready for the Amazing Race, one of the things that I needed to be ready to train for was to carry heavy things. So the gym where we worked out had huge sandbags and so we would just load up on our back. Huge sandbags. So I really do think a cheap way to do it is to get it. But then all the weights on your back.

[Penn Holderness]

Right. So I think you'd have to put some stuff on the front too. It's. It's very interesting. So I have a ruck backpack that's awful on my back. I have a weighted vest that works way better because it's front and back. And also, frankly, when we trained for the race and we had those really huge Osprey backpacks that had harness points. These harness points that didn't hurt too bad either. Yeah, it's like there are. You can get hurt doing this.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

The Amazon one that I have that I'm going to retire, it just smushes my boobs. So that's like my boobs end up hurting anyway. Tmi. Sorry. So there are a lot of people who've had concerns I was not prepared for. How many people had deep, deep feelings against weighted vests?

[Penn Holderness]

This was. This was the shocking moment for you. Do you want to read some of the comments that you found, Kayla?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Like we haven't already been carrying the whole world on our shoulders. Facts, Kayla, Total facts. I'm just trying not to get really frail and crusty in the old folks some.

[Penn Holderness]

I like this segment. She's going to read it and then she's going to have her response.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

But what if we're already carrying a lot of emotional baggage? Same. I have suitcases full of emotional baggage that I'm carrying, but it's not helping me prepare for a fall late in life. Keep it going, Anna. Two days later, frozen shoulder enters the chat. I will say so. I have that 12 pound Amazon vest that I'm retiring. I went on a walk. I was listening to an audiobook.

[Penn Holderness]

Long walk.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It was. It was too long. It was like an hour and a half walk Because I was getting lost in my audio book. I almost called you to come pick me up, but I was on a trail. Like you couldn't have come get me, but my shoulder is. It was. It was an hour and a half walk with a 12 pound vest. It was too much.

[Penn Holderness]

Too much.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It was too much. Yeah. Catherine. Hi, sweetie. It's your spine. I came here from the future with a message. No.

[Penn Holderness]

Sounds like an empirical evidence story. Something that's happened to her.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

There is a lot of evidence, because I have done a lot of reading on this that you not only just wearing it, you need to do it while lifting, while jumping, while doing these other things. So that's why I'm excited to get my new upgraded vest because the 12 pound is too big for me. I would, I would throw my back out if I jumped on something.

[Penn Holderness]

So, you guys, we're so glad that you sent all these in. I want to make sure everyone knows like I know Kim was responding. We love hearing everyone's opinion.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And we are not the people who don't read the comments. We use them as data points.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

We use them to get more curious. And today we're using them to launch a conversation with someone who actually knows a lot more about this than we do.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

We need to consult an expert. More on this after these words. As summer winds down, I'm all about refreshing my wardrobe with staple pieces for the season ahead.

[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Their styles are so versatile, I find myself reaching for them again and again. Think chic cashmere and cotton sweaters starting at $40. Washable silk tops and classic denim pants. Timeless styles you'll keep coming back to.

[Penn Holderness]

And the best part, everything with Quints is half the cost of similar brands.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quint gives you you luxury without the markup.

[Penn Holderness]

And Quints only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I'm loving the 100% organic cotton poplin tiered maxi skirt as the perfect option. With this unpredictable weather. It's the perfect blend of softness and structure.

[Penn Holderness]

And like this is new because I was, I was surfing. Don't they sell, they sell home items now, right?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

They have rugs, glassware, linens. I mean, when I'm taking the seasonal refresh, I may hit the whole house. Sorry, babe.

[Penn Holderness]

So elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with Quint. Go to quince.comholderness for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That's Q-U I N C E.comholderness to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Penn Holderness]

Quints.comholderness from Fitness Routines to mental resilience, navigating personal goals to tackling burnout, we all need a little help just being human.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That's what the Life Kit podcast from NPR is here to do. If you're looking to move with more intention or just need thoughtful guidance on living better, Life Kit delivers strategies to help make meaningful, sustainable change.

[Penn Holderness]

You know life doesn't come with a manual, but every day you're making choices, some big, some small, that shape the direction of your life.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Life Kit offers real stories, relevant insights and clear takeaways to help you meet those decision making moments with confidence and clarity.

[Penn Holderness]

I just really enjoy how many topics they cover as well. Recent episodes include financial advice for last minute purchases and why Some People Get Bitten by Mosquitoes More Than Others Spoiler alert. I get bitten by mosquitoes more than others.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

And another spoiler alert it might be the color of clothing that you're wearing.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay, I listen to Life Kit because I get to hear thoughtful conversations that unpack the emotional and practical side of personal wellness, actionable guidance I can actually use, no fluff, no judgment, trusted voices and expert advice to help take me to the next step, however big or small.

[Penn Holderness]

Get help tackling common issues like relationships, finances, parenting and your career. Then walk away with a game plan you can implement right away.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Life Kit isn't just another podcast about self improvement improvement. It's about understanding how to live a little better. Starting now.

[Penn Holderness]

So listen now to the Life Kit Podcast from npr.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack sponsor.

[Penn Holderness]

IQ Bar is the better for you. Plant protein based snack made with brain boosting nutrients to refuel, nourish and satisfy hunger without the sugar crash.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

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[Penn Holderness]

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[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

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[Penn Holderness]

So they sent us the ultimate sampler pack. My favorite. This one stood out to me. It was the Chocolate sea salt. Chocolate is meant to go with sea salt. Second place for me was the toasted Coconut chip. That was also really good.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

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[Penn Holderness]

To get your 20% off, just text Holderness to 64,000. Text Holderness to 64,000.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That's Holderness to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details on our show. Today, Dr. Mary Claire Haverto, who's been wearing her weighted vest on social media for years.

[Penn Holderness]

Dr. Mary Clairhaver is a board certified OB GYN, certified menopause practitioner, culinary medicine expert, and the creator of the Galveston Diet, which has helped hundreds of thousands of women navigate the hormonal chaos of midlife.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

She also founded Mary Claire Wellness, a clinic dedicated to women in midlife. The Pause Life, a platform for menopause education and support. And her latest book, the New Menopause, is a new New York Times bestseller many times over. And her social media community of millions is learning to embrace this next chapter with strength, confidence, science, and humor. Please welcome our friend, Dr. Mary Claire Haver.

[Kim Holderness]

Thanks for having me.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

We could sit here and chit chat all day because first of all, like, side note, our most recent books came out on the same day and we were in New York on the same day. Day. And then when the New York Times bestseller list came out, I think I texted you.

[Kim Holderness]

You. I found out from you.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah. That you were number one. I think. Were we number two?

[Penn Holderness]

We were number two that first weekend.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And so. And your book continues to be in the New York Times bestseller list. That's crazy. That's like doubles up.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. It's really insane to me.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It just means so many people needed it and continue to need it. So well done. Okay. But today's focus, we're going to get into all the menopause stuff, too. You wear your weighted vests a lot on social media.

[Kim Holderness]

I do.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And honestly, it's, it truly has inspired an army of men and women because I go outside in my neighborhood and it's men and women. Everybody's wearing a weighted vest. Tell me, how did you, how did you stumble into this? When did you start wearing yours?

[Kim Holderness]

So when I started digging into the data around osteoporosis. Right in. And I don't know if you realize, you guys realize, but we have an epidemic of frailty, loss of muscle mass, loss of bone mass, leading to loss of independence, you know, for mostly women as we age. So, you know, there's a, there's a whole, you know, subsection of the population that can't take estrogen. Doesn't want to take estrogen, is still really fearful, or they're kind of past the window of opportunity. I'm like, what can we do for these women to decrease their risk of loss of independence, bone muscle balance, all the things that kind of add up to nursing home admissions, right? Or having to move in with a child. I start going in the medical literature and looking and lo and behold, I'd never heard of a weighted vest before. I'd heard about rucking, but to me that sounded like paramilitary and sort of like big. You know, I knew Peter Attia liked it, but, you know, weighted vests were something. Same concept, but very different.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Right.

[Kim Holderness]

So I start seeing these articles pop up, like over a dozen on looking at going into nursing homes, mostly looking at women with osteopenia with osteoporosis. And what interventions could we do to help them decrease their risk of falling, improve their balance and improve their bone strength? And there were some pretty good studies. Small, but again, when you think about who funds research and why and how, it's either a pharmaceutical company wanting to see if their product is going to be efficacious for whatever symptom. Well, no big pharma companies paying for a way to that study. Or you can get some funding from the National Institutes of Health in the US or at least you could, you know, see how that funding goes nowadays. Yeah, nowadays, you know, things are changing. So. And I was very pleasantly surprised to see, you know, at least a dozen studies that supported the use of weighted vest. So what's the next thing Mary Claire does? She Googles how do I find a weighted vest? And links pop up. So I start looking and I pick one that's 25, 35 on Amazon and looks like it's fairly comfortable. And I buy it. I don't even know what weight to buy. So I go back in the studies and I'm like, well, at what weight did we see improvement in bone density in these women? And for a lot of them, it was a roughly 10% of their body of their body weight.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

So I'm like, okay, I'm about 20. I'll get a 12 pound vest. That was pretty heavy. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, whoa, this is like a lot, you know, So I got a smaller one and I basically had to work up, okay, so in the studies, the women started at about 5% and then they graduated as they got stronger up to the 10%. And that's where we saw the bone density improvements. So I start wearing it on social media. I Start talking about it. I don't own a weight, you know, I don't sell weight of vest. But I had an Amazon store and I just threw the link in there.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yes.

[Kim Holderness]

Little did I know it would spark this, you know, widespread interest and disinterest.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

We'll get to that.

[Kim Holderness]

So for me, it doesn't replace weight training. Right. So weightlifting for me is non negotiable. This is not a replacement for weight training. And I don't want anyone to feel that weight training is going to be superior to wearing a weighted vest for improvements in bone density. We know that. Right. But it is helpful. So I wear it when I am walking, when I'm doing housework, when I'm doing activities I would otherwise normally do, even when I'm sitting at my desk because I know it's helping me with balance, it's helping me with core strength. I have to work a little bit harder to stay upright, you know, and I've turned my treadmill into a walking desk so I don't see sit all day when I'm home researching. And so it's just like one more tool in the toolkit.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

For me to stay healthier, stronger, better balanced as I age.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. So I've been, I've had weighted vests for about almost 14, 15 years now because when I got into CrossFit, they actually had a workout every Memorial Day called the Murph. I don't know if you've heard of this.

[Kim Holderness]

I've heard of a Murph, Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

So it's like a 25 pound weighted vest, which for a lot of people is roughly 10% of their weight. You run a mile, do a hundred pull ups, 200 pushups in the weighted vest. Yep. 300 air squats and then you run another mile. You have to train for an entire year to get ready for this or else you are advised to scale down on it. Right. Like these are people who say like you're going to have long term injuries if you do that. I still have never performed it entirely with the weight of vest. I can't do 200 push ups. It would like kill my shoulder with the weight of vest. I'm saying all that because I heard you talk about how like pharma, Pharma isn't going to do anything about this. You can't prescribe. Seems like we need some guidance on this though, because there are a gajillion weighted vests out there. It's almost like AI. There's no regulation for weighted vests at this point. And so people are getting hurt a lot. I have a buddy of mine who fell in love with the weighted vest and it ended up giving him so much distress on his Achilles that not only did he have to quit walking on his weighting weighted vest, but he can't even walk normally anymore. So how do, like how do we, how do we responsibly use weight?

[Kim Holderness]

Right. No, that's a great question. Now this is coming from an OB GYN's perspective, right? So when you look at those studies, those were done with physical trainers, right? You know, with, you know, people who knew what they were doing, guiding these women through this training program. But I think like any exercise, like anytime we do any loaded training, we can over train. Yeah, we can push yourself too far. And that I think it's easy to do when you go really heavy with a weighted vest that you could end up with an injury that you shouldn't. Now again, I'm not a physical therapist. I do not pretend to be, but I think there is a way. You know, I would love to see more instruction and I, I have seen some personal trainers really embrace this and come out with some guidelines because it is so popular. But loaded training, you know, putting extra load on more than your body weight is always going to be beneficial. But again, we can overdo anything in life and end up injured.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

We did a video recently where I like put it on and there was like the Lion King music, like it's time I shared that one. It was like.

[Penn Holderness]

That one hit that one hit that one hit hard.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

But that was my Amazon weighted vest. First of all, I put it on upside down. We shot it, we put it, we shot this video, hand to God, in 42 seconds.

[Penn Holderness]

I think that's, I think it was.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Less, it was less than 42 seconds. So headed on upside down. But I, I can't take a long, long walk in that because it's 12 pounds and I think it's, I mean that's about 10 of my body weight. But it's too heavy. So I just upgraded mine to like one of the, It's a lot lighter, zips up and it kind of distributes the weight better. But you say for anybody listening here who's, you know, weighted vest, Curious. Work up to 10%, right?

[Kim Holderness]

Work up to 10, absolutely. So when I walk with my girlfriends on the seawall in Galveston, that's usually minimum of five, five mile walk. I can't do 12. I would, you know, my shoulders would be hurting. I'd be really uncomfortable just from the muscle Strain, So I'll do it with an eight. You know, that's like me holding two four pound, you know, weights in my hands. And so, you know, again, I have multiple. Because I'm curious and into them. My husband's into them. So Penn, like he has 25. He has 35.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And when I am exercising in the gym and I'm doing some weighted stuff, you know, sometimes it's harder. It's easier for me to throw on the weighted vest. I don't have to hold so much in my hand. My grip strength can't keep up with my leg strength. So when I'm doing squats, sometimes it's easier for me to put on one of the heavier weighted vests and then hold lighter weights in my hands just because I can do more, you know, volume using that weighted vest. So, you know, again, this is Mary Claire, obgyn physician with no physical therapy training, working out in her gym alone. Haven't gotten injured. And these are just some creative ways that I'm using it at home.

[Penn Holderness]

You're not the only person who's endorsing it. We had Dr. Richard Isaacson on a couple of months ago. He is a preventative neurologist. Great guy. Was talking about how there are some people who are using GLPs to help, like microdosing GLPs to help with brain health. And so he's done a lot of research on people who are using Ozempic and they absolutely need to have like a heavy duty weight training regimen because.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, yeah, that's the same way we counsel our own patients on GLP1s. And you know, I'm a huge fan and in the right population, in the right patient rather. And so we have about an hour counseling, talking about, you know, heavy lifting, you know, making sure you hang on to your muscle mass so you don't lose so much. Actually, there is a study that they used weighted vests vest to decrease muscle loss during fat loss.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

As somebody, I'm perimenopausal, for the love of God. I need to have like, God. Protein needs to come up, cholesterol needs to go down, all this blah, blah, blah. Well, this weighted vest, am I, am I burning more calories? Like, hit me with it straight. Am I going to lose some weight?

[Kim Holderness]

So when you look at clerk, you know, it's not that much more calories. But again, when you're, if you're on, you know, it depends if you're on a GLP1 or not. It's a whole different conversation. GLP1 patients really have to focus on how much they eat a lot, you know, because they tend to under eat. But it's not a significant improvement in caloric output. You know, when you put on a weighted vest, you know, at like 10% of your body weight. So it's not like a big, you know, fancy weight loss tool. I would not recommend it for that when you look at those studies.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

So I just need to like eat right, which is so annoying. Okay. I do feel like to, I mean, just to switch gears here for a, for a beat. I do feel like the Internet is very surprising because we put out this weighted vest thing and I, I like to check comments. I feel like the community is like where you find the good stuff. You need to check comments.

[Kim Holderness]

Me too.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I was unprepared for how many people have very strong opinions against a weight of vest. They were, they wanted, they were leaving a lot of comments. They really wanted me to know how bad it is. They really thought I was getting paid for. I'm like, no, I don't make any money off of this. So has that been surprising to you too?

[Kim Holderness]

It has. You know, I think, I love that it's opened up a conversation about frailty, about muscle loss, about bone loss and really making people think about it. And where I see the most negative comments are people that are selling an alternative. Oh, so it is some physical therapists, some personal trainers who feel like it is cutting into their expertise or cutting into their, you know, you know, coming in to talk about the pros and cons and benefits and risks are, I think is, is a worthy conversation. Right, because there are people who are going to go out and buy a 35 pound weight of Aston, like pull a muscle or tear a tail, ligament or tendon because, you know, they don't know how to use it properly. But I think, you know, the strongest worded that, you know, the most negativity I've seen is someone who's trying to sell an alternative.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That makes sense. I was, I was, I mean, look.

[Kim Holderness]

At all the weight loss companies that were like dumping on GLP1s, you know, and that, that whole backlash, that was all fueled because it is, it is destroying a billion dollar diet industry. Oh, this is coming from someone who used to sell a nutrition program.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

I get so ticked off when I, when I hear this. But it happens every time we talk to someone that the reason behind an opinion is billions of dollars. You know what I mean?

[Kim Holderness]

I think there's truth to that. You know, I. Everything that happens In. I think right now in politics and how, you know, everything is a lot. And so. But I think people are savvy. I really think, especially women. They're. They're so used to being sold to that they are really cognizant and. And can. Can make a good decision for themselves. I've always said if we arm women with good information, they will make excellent decisions for themselves.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Amen.

[Penn Holderness]

I agree. Y'. All. Y' all are smart.

[Kim Holderness]

See through the tech. You know, they can see through the artifice and the sales pitches.

[Penn Holderness]

Y' all are smart. But Kim was convinced a couple days ago that there were some bunny rabbits jumping on a trampoline.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I fell for this. AI, my God.

[Kim Holderness]

That's not real.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That's AI.

[Penn Holderness]

So, Mary Claire, I want you to go back and look at it. There's six bunnies. And at one point, another bunny jumps into another bunny and becomes that other bunny. It goes from six to five bunnies in the middle of the video.

[Kim Holderness]

I feel like use of AI because that video made me so happy.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I know. Okay, so just to back up for a second, I will play it for the YouTube version here. There is a video, and I was smiling because I was spiraling because my daughter was leaving for college, and so it made me smile. Sent it to my family, and then I checked the comments. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm such an idiot. And. But it was a good test because I thought that I was pretty savvy. There's a video of. It looks like ring camera footage of a trampoline. And there's all these bunnies. There's six bunnies jumping on it.

[Penn Holderness]

And then another bunny. Two bunnies morph in the middle of the video, and it's five bunnies, which doesn't happen in nature. Okay, okay. Anyway, so, yes, savvy, but savvy. There it is. I guess I'm saying that because I know that my job is on the Internet. I don't know if I trust the Internet as much as I used to.

[Kim Holderness]

Well, have y' all been pirated or. You know, because there are tons of videos of me.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

Deep fakes. Looks like me. Sounds like me. I even have to lean in and be like, is that me? Did I say that?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Stop it.

[Kim Holderness]

Selling products. And it is not me. So, you know, these companies are operating overseas, so it's not like I can call a lawyer and do a cease and desist. Like, you know, if you're in Bangladesh or wherever. I'm making up a country. You know, if you're in what?

[Penn Holderness]

Wherever.

[Kim Holderness]

You know, in Argentina there, there's no jurisdiction. So what you have to do is like write letters to the platform saying this isn't me, please take it down and da da da. It's so time consuming. We've hired a company that will scrub the Internet for my images and look for the deep fakes and then file all the.

[Penn Holderness]

So give me an example. Like what's something that you said that must be so crazy to say so.

[Kim Holderness]

It'Ll take a scientific video. Usually I'm in scrubs with a scrub cap. You know, back when I was taking call, I used to do a lot of videos when I had downtime at the hospital and you know, teaching informative stuff. And they'll completely redo my mouth and words. It looks like one of my kids mouths and they'll be talking about oh this, I wear this watch all the time and it tracks all my da da da, whatever. Never said that in my life. But it is my actual video, my actual voice. They just change the mouth and it's so real, it's terrifying.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay, we all need to be on the lookout for it and we all need to watch what our parents are sharing also. So we all go on. Well, no, we just need to be. Not my mom, she's great. Not my dad's, not on the Internet. So it's fine. But just like we'll just be aware for our parents and maybe we do like a, an AI literacy sort of update course.

[Penn Holderness]

But we can't tell. She just said no, but she just said she wasn't sure if she had said it or not. I'm sorry, I'm just like I'm, I'm chicken littleing this a little bit and.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm sorry, but it's, it's really great. It's getting really, really good.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay. So I honestly I can't worry about that. I have too much stuff to worry about. Okay. Perimenopause. How many times have I texted you, Dr. Mary Claire, asking some sort of. I feel like I'm in a good place now. But nutritionally if I have to eat any more protein, I, I, I just. So much protein to the point where I'm like, could you just give it to me in like an iv? IV or could you just like can I get one of those like little smoothie packs you used to give your kids like of those like little applesauce things? Beef, Just liquid beef. I don't know.

[Kim Holderness]

So that is the big debate in my world. And, and on the science End of it. How much is enough? How much is too much? How much do we need? We know what we do. Here's what we know. We know that by and large, women in this country aren't eating enough to sustain bone and muscle strength. So that musculoskeletal unit works together. And if we are just like bone, bone is constantly being chewed up and new bone is like a pac man. So chewing up bone and then pooping out new bone on the back end, right? And when we go through menopause and lose estrogen, you tend to slow down the, the, you know, you kind of increase the reabsorption and you slow down the, the new progression. So the overall net is a bone loss, okay? Muscle is, we remodel our muscle all the time. That's why, you know, we have muscle strains, tears, pulls in the heel, you know, without having surgery for, you know, 98 of the injuries, unless you like, slice through the whole muscle. So all you have to do is just line the muscle back up or just, just, just isolate it and it will heal because it's chewing up and laying down new muscle. And so we end up with a net loss over time. The satellite cells, which are kind of the, like stem cells for muscle, like did go the, the amount of those decrease the health and like the fat content of our muscle increases across the transition. So anyway, protein intake is tied to that now. Again, we have to work that muscle, but we also have to provide the substrate, which is the protein intake, so that, you know, we are able to lay down that new muscle as it's being chewed up.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And so what do you strive for, percentage wise? Like, how many?

[Kim Holderness]

For me, it's not so much percent. You know, I, I, I'm, I'm privileged in that, you know, I don't have a fat problem and I have a muscle problem. I'm very low muscle. And so when I look at my grandmother, my aunts, my mom and, and what has taken them out in those last 10 years, it's been frailty and so very focused on that. So for me, it's 100 to 120 grams per day. It's so hard. I mean, so I have cheats like everybody. So I make a big shake in the morning staring at my empty blender over there. So for me, I make my shake in the morning and I've got Greek yogurt, a scoop of protein powder, some collagen, I've got creatine in there. I've got hemp, flax, chia, some berries, you know, I just. Just make this kitchen sink of stuff so I can check a bunch of boxes, and it's got about 50 grams of protein in it, so if I can. And I drink that over two to three hours in the. You know, when I break my fast in the morning. And I've cut back on fasting one, because weight is not an issue for me. Like, I need to gain weight, I need to gain muscle. And so I eat when I'm hungry. You know, I get up usually 9, 10. I'm start getting hungry. I'll make my shake, and I'll sip on that throughout the morning.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay, so I have two questions for you, and I'm gonna say them out loud so I don't forget them. Is there too much that you could. It's like 50 grams seems like a lot, but you're spreading it out.

[Kim Holderness]

I'm spreading it out.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

You're spreading it out over a few hours.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Creatine it is.

[Kim Holderness]

So my beautiful studies on creatine and women in menopause. Like, no one's gonna. No one's gonna argue with you about creatine.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

You've not been on the Internet lately. No, I'm kidding. But I. It is. Obviously, creatine is something I need to take because my algorithm is sent, like, how. But how. Like, what. How much am I doing?

[Kim Holderness]

So creatine's pret in that. So creatine is something we make tons of when we're younger, and we store a lot when we're younger in the aging process. This isn't just a menopause thing. This is all humans. The aging process decreases the rate at which we make it and the rate and how much we store. So we're just trying to, like, maintain our stores of creatine, which is super important for muscle. Also, you know, good studies showing it works on the level of the mitochondria. So brain health, you know, multiple other aspects of the body. So creatine monohydrate is pure, cheap, easy to find. Like, our tub of. It lasts two months, and it's like 30 bucks, you know, so we. We make it. And there's beautiful studies done in menopausal women showing benefits.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

So how much? Like, how. How many.

[Kim Holderness]

So most of the studies on women were done three to five grams per day.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

It's flavorless, colorless, odorless. You can dump it in water, mix it up. You don't see it. You drink it. You know, it's so easy. So I just throw it in that smoothie, and I Don't even notice it.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I just know that the guys in high school took it, and I think they were trying to gain weight. Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

And so just for bodybuilders and some women will ask, hey, I don't. I don't lift weights. Do I have to take it on the days I don't lift weights? I'm like, the recommendations are to take it every day.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, what is creatine like? What is it? Is it like. It looks like chalky? Is it like, is it someone's bone ground up and put in a milkshake?

[Kim Holderness]

It's a compound that is found in muscle and bone in our brain.

[Penn Holderness]

Bone. Yeah, we took some bones and we ground them up and we put them in. In a box.

[Kim Holderness]

So I kind of class creatine with, like, melatonin.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

So it's. It's a chemical in the body that naturally occurring. Naturally occurring serves. Purposes now, I think you'd have to eat 12 chicken breasts in order to get the amount of creatine you can get in just the scoop of the concentrated stuff.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Wow.

[Penn Holderness]

It. Creatine was what Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire said they were using to get bigger and not testosterone and not gajillions of other steroids. So that was the first time I heard about.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Maybe that's interesting.

[Penn Holderness]

No, but. No. But then everyone in high school, when they heard they did that, they all started taking creatine.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And so that's what. I went to high school in the 90s, and I feel like all the guys were pounding creatine. They wanted to gain weight. So when I heard creatine, I'm like, dude, I'm already fighting this, like, lower belly fat. There's no way. But if Dr. Mary Claire says I need to add it, I'll add it to my smoothies.

[Kim Holderness]

When you first start taking creatine, it.

[Penn Holderness]

You.

[Kim Holderness]

You hold on to more water.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And so I don't want to do that.

[Kim Holderness]

Be more hydrated, which will make the scale go up. But, like, I have a body scanner. I have one at home. I have one in the. I have a real fancy one in the office. So we actually measure total body water. And so I'm like, calm down. You're just hydrated.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay, so wait, how long am I going to be puffy?

[Kim Holderness]

It usually equilibrates within a couple of weeks.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I just don't have time to be puffy. But okay, I'll do it.

[Penn Holderness]

She doesn't have time to be puffy.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I don't have time to be puffy.

[Kim Holderness]

Half a scoop Just start with like two and a half. Half, like work your way up.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Best, you know, don't, don't go all in in the beginning. Give your gut. And for some people, they'll have some bloating when they first start, but again, and that's probably from the water being pulled in. And so you just give it some time and your gut will adjust.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay, you told me to do it, so I'll do it.

[Penn Holderness]

So doc, tell me how you're doing. Like, you, we've been friends with you for three or four years now. It's been wonderful. And you've always kind of shared your personal journey when it comes to perimenopause and menopause. What's since we've last seen you? How are your symptoms doing? How are they being managed? Are you still losing your phones and Ubers? Like, what, what are, what's, how's, how's it going for you?

[Kim Holderness]

Save my phone from an Uber from me leaving it in an Uber. We were charging it and I jumped out for an event.

[Penn Holderness]

It's how we first met.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It's how we first met.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, it's perfect. So we. I'm doing great. I am sleeping really well.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

What. I mean, what is that like?

[Kim Holderness]

It is magical. So, you know, I'm definitely. Hormones are helping. I was waking up from hot flashes, like, you know, and I got those under control. But then, you know, I was still getting up at three in the morning just like that, that, like wake up. And so I worked with a sleep medicine specialist. So Andrea Matsumura, she's sleep goddess, MD on Instagram. I'm give her a little plug and talk to her for a long time. We talked about melatonin, we talked about, you know, what's keeping me up, anxious, racing thoughts, you know. And so we came up with a little cocktail for me that is magnesium to help, you know, crosses the blood brain barrier and helps with calm my progesterone. Of course. Now that's a prescription, the L Theonate, which is a good anti anxiety med. And it's a little bit sedating. And then the, just a, just a hint of melatonin. We don't need much. Most people OD on melatonin. You know, you buy in the bottle, it's 5 to 10. This is like a 0.3. And that little cocktail I, you know, and I wear my silly sleep tracker. And so I'm getting deeper sleep, more deep sleep. I'm getting little stars and it's giving me all this. Wow, you're sleeping so good. So I really feel. And you know, exercise and avoiding alcohol and all the things.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Kim Holderness]

I have to protect my sleep with my life. I have like a 19 step wind down routine now. I used to just pass out.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

You know, I could have three glasses of wine and sleep on a sidewalk and I would be like, oh, I'm fine now.

[Penn Holderness]

Now it total compliance.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I need total compliance out of him. If he, he like, he loves to play tennis. He has this great group of guys, he hangs out with it at night and there's all these studies about like racket sports and brain health and all this stuff. So I want him to do it. But if he's going to come in after 10 o', clock, I'm sorry, hard deck curfew. No, you have to go sleep in the guest room.

[Penn Holderness]

Which is fine.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

You can't do it.

[Kim Holderness]

I'll give you another tip.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Please.

[Kim Holderness]

So hanging out with a bunch of urologists, right?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

As one does.

[Penn Holderness]

Hanging out with a bunch of urologists, doing some vasectomies.

[Kim Holderness]

So the menopause urologists. Yeah, men and women. I'm like, my husband keeps getting up to go pee and it's waking me up at 2 in the morning and he's trying not to wake me up.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I mean he's of course stealthy, but.

[Kim Holderness]

If I'm in that phase of sleep, it's going to wake me up and then I can't go back to bed and there. And then I can't hear him. I'm like, what are you doing in there? And I can't hear it. And they're like, oh, he must have a little bit of, you know, aging be, you know, benign prostatic hypertrophy. He's going to kill me for saying that. So anyway, they're like, I can't wait for this. Then prescribe 5 milligrams, you know, the lowest dose of sildenafil and it'll change your life. And so it totally. He can sleep through the night now.

[Penn Holderness]

So Denafil is Viagra, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Got it.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Well, yeah, okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. Plus the other unexpected benefits we can talk about offline. But you know, I was like, oh my God, he is sleep. And I can hear him pee when he goes pee now. Like it really is helping.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

So wait, so he, he can sleep through the night and doesn't have to pee and he wakes up with a.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, I would imagine.

[Kim Holderness]

Well, he takes it like during the day. It like lasts for 24 hours.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Oh, I had no idea.

[Kim Holderness]

This could be complaints in that area before. But you know, it's a little benefit. It's like my testosterone.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I.

[Penn Holderness]

No. No one's ever, like, man, a little too much Viagra going on in our relationship right now.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I know. I mean, we could just sprinkle it on food just to see. Funny. There are studies. I don't think they're well founded, but. So any. Any brain health study. Because this is an area of deep concern. Yeah. For our family. And so if there's any new brain health study, we get forwarded one. And so there was one about Viagra helping Alzheimer's. Helping Alzheimer's, and we got forwarded that by 100 people and I get it. Okay, fine. But it's not well researched.

[Kim Holderness]

I mean, it's a vasodilator, so, you.

[Penn Holderness]

Know, it's good for your heart.

[Kim Holderness]

Specific to certain areas of the body.

[Penn Holderness]

And just like, is he just. Is he just walking around at half mass all the time now or, like, what's going on?

[Kim Holderness]

Okay, it feels totally normal.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. Sorry. I just. Everyone else has to be wondering this question.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

No, it's a good question.

[Kim Holderness]

But an erection is a cascade of events, right? So the ability to maintain an erection is where the cialis can be helpful. And so it also seems to do something to the prostate, to shrink it up a little bit so that you.

[Penn Holderness]

Don'T feel like you should immediately do this.

[Kim Holderness]

You know, it's very safe.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And you won't pee in the middle of the night.

[Penn Holderness]

Do I pee in the middle of the night?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Oh, 100%. You pee in the middle of the night.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay. I'm not really aware of it, but.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, it saved my sleep.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I'm just telling you, I. Dr. Mariclair, I love interviewing you because our conversations take really wild turns. We started with Weight of Est, we went into creatine, and now we're talking about erections. I just think we cover so much. So it's your husband there.

[Penn Holderness]

Bring him in. I mean, don't surprise me. Yesterday.

[Kim Holderness]

Hey. Hi. I was telling him about the medicine to help you not sleep all night.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Oh, okay.

[Kim Holderness]

Let's make that public. No one's gonna hear this.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, no one.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

No one will hear it. More on this after these words.

[Penn Holderness]

All right, Kim, it's almost time for our daughter to head out to college.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I know. And I need to pick me up. And you know what makes me a little bit better?

[Penn Holderness]

What's that?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

A great manicure, which I get at home with Olive and June. Mani system.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, Everything you need for a salon quality manicure comes in one box. And you can customize it with your choice of six polishes.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I know we shouldn't pick polishes based on their name, but Sandy Scala, Purple Puka friend or an enemy. These are so cute.

[Penn Holderness]

It's a dad joke. I like that. Did you also know that their mani system it breaks down to to just $2amanicure.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Amazing. Plus Olive and June's polish doesn't ship and lasts up to 10 days. Plus it's free of 15 different no no ingredients.

[Penn Holderness]

Get a plump gel like finish with no lamp needed. Plus Olive and June offer quick dry polishes and even press ons.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Visit oliveandjune.com laughlines for 20% off your first system.

[Penn Holderness]

That is O L I V B A N D J-U-N-E.com laughlines for 20 off your first system. All right, Kim, I think I found my newest protein powder obsession. It's Clean Simple Eats.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Oh, Clean Simple Eats is the best. Their protein powder is always grass fed with no seed oils or artificial ingredients. Third party tested non GMO and gluten free. Each serving has 20 grams of protein.

[Penn Holderness]

Their protein pack powder is incredibly creamy and smooth. So of course I love to use it in a smoothie.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

They have so many different flavors to choose from and my personal favorite is the caramel toffee. They even have a protein powder variety pack so you can try individual servings of multiple flavors.

[Penn Holderness]

And Kim, as I'm aging and trying to spend time in the gym to offset that, getting enough protein is a priority for me. So finding a brand I can trust that tastes good and has none of the the yucky artificial stuff that is huge.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Plus, Clean Soup Elites also has clear protein powder. The pink burst flavor is life changing. It literally tastes like a melted pink starburst. You just mix the clear protein powder and water and get a super refreshing light drink with 20 grams of protein.

[Penn Holderness]

So visit cleansimpleats.com and use the code LAUGH20 at checkout for 20 off your first order plus free shipping.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That's clean simple leads.com code LAUGH20 for 20 off your first order plus free shipping.

[Penn Holderness]

I want to end if we're okay to kind of start wrapping things up.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay, We've covered a lot. Let's wrap it up. Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

And I want to say the reason that I brought up the cell phone in the Uber was I wanted you to be here for my top five this week. My pen's top five.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

We do pen's top five.

[Penn Holderness]

And this is going to make you feel better because I know that there are women with Menopause who have trouble forgetting things. It's an executive function issue. We've talked about it in prior episodes. I do not have menopause, but I do have adhd. And these are the five most ridiculous places I've ever, like, left stuff or lost stuff. Number five, I have left my luggage for a trip in the airplane boarding area twice.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Twice.

[Penn Holderness]

And gotten on a plane twice without my luggage.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

One of them was last week.

[Penn Holderness]

One of them was last week. Week. Number four, I. So you know this as a video creator, cameras have these little cards called SD cards. I left an SD card in the refrigerator underneath a bowl of spinach after.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

A shoot in which we did not load the video, so we were gonna have to redo everything, but then we.

[Penn Holderness]

Found it under the bowl of spinach. While getting the bowl of spinach.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah.

[Penn Holderness]

Number three, I've left my keys on top of a car. This is only number three, Kim.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Wow.

[Penn Holderness]

I've left my keys on top of a car at the beach. Didn't have a spare set of keys. And Kim had to drive hours to the beach to find the keys on top of the car, throw them at me, and then drive home.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

You're welcome. We. Our marriage survived that. So I think that, honestly, if you're wondering about your marriage, just know that we survived that.

[Penn Holderness]

Number two, I've left. Or I've left my car somewhere where I didn't know where it was for a month. Do you have. You have a question?

[Kim Holderness]

I. I've lost it in the airport.

[Penn Holderness]

Oh, yeah. Okay. That's. Yeah, airport for sure.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Airport is hard, though.

[Penn Holderness]

Memorize the.

[Kim Holderness]

Now, I like, take pictures and do.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

All the 100 take, but airport is hard. Airport is hard.

[Penn Holderness]

No, this was in college and I parked it on a side street because when you're a first year in college, you can't park anywhere but on a side street. And I forgot where the side street was. And I went back one time about two weeks in to look for it on that street, and I didn't see it. I saw a green version of my car, and so I left. And then someone said to me, what if that was your car? But it just had pollen on it.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

It was pollen.

[Penn Holderness]

It was pollen. My car had changed colors. When I went back together, it. Number one is a story I've never told anyone.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I. I have no idea.

[Penn Holderness]

I was. This is just like. Bear with me for a quick story. Okay. For story time. All right. So my first job was In Grand Junction, Colorado, 30 miles from the border of Utah. Drove into Utah to Do an extreme sports story at Arches Beautiful national park if you've never been there. On the way back, I get a two way radio from the desk saying, hey, can you take a quick shot of welcome to Utah on the side of the road on I 70, 70 mile an hour road. You're not supposed to pull over on the side of the road. So I pull this local news. They're like, yeah, pull the news van over, take a picture. The sun is setting. It is gorgeous. So my dad also bought me one of those little Fujinon cameras that does like, that does so I'm like, this is so beautiful. I'm going to take a selfie of myself with the welcome to Colorado because I had welcome to Colorado and welcome to Utah. Welcome to Colorado. With the sun going down over my shoulder. So I took it feeling really good, Got in the car, drove home, got back to my house at about 8:45. How far is the drive from the border of Utah? Was about 45 minutes. Okay. And the, the news camera, which is a very expensive camera, was not in my car.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I've never heard this story before.

[Penn Holderness]

I had left a professional news camera on the side of i70, got back in my car, drove back to the sign. Dark at this point. There it is. Still hasn't moved. Put it back in my car. Told no one I worked with. Told no one until this moment. I'm far away enough from Krex that I don't think they can. Yeah, I was so. I was. We were so broke, man. I was worried they'd like be like.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Garnish your wages and therefore you'd owe them money for five years.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Because he made so little.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah. And it was, it wasn't my camera obviously. So. So anyway, that's number one.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I will, I will say you feel.

[Penn Holderness]

Better about forgetting stuff now.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I have never been a forgetter of things because I don't have adhd. But in perimenopause I am losing stuff all the time.

[Kim Holderness]

I have systems in place to remember things that I never had to do before. You know, like remember reading your book pen and like I was going through menopause and like, oh, I've had to do this recently. Like all the tricks that you have so you don't forget your keys. So you don't, you know. Yeah, I'm like, I never worried about that until now. Yeah. So I was like, oh, I do that now.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I think there's like a, there's a line and this is a separate conversation about, like, what's Perimenopause and what's adhd? Because they mimic each other so fiercely.

[Penn Holderness]

Even with the emotions, too.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yeah. I love seeing your face. I loved meeting your husband. Thank you so much for joining us. Is there anything besides all your socials and everything that we're going to put in the show notes?

[Kim Holderness]

I just turned in the manuscript for the new Perimenopause. We have a whole section on ADHD in there.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Oh, yeah, you too?

[Kim Holderness]

Oh, that's coming out April 7th.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That's so. Well, will you come back and we can talk about that? Oh, my. That is so exciting. Oh, my God. Okay. Very excited. Okay, well, we'll talk to you in April then. Okay, thank you. I always love having her on the show. I feel like I learned a lot and those are my favorite interviews when I learned something.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Did you learn anything?

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah, the. I mean, obviously the Viagra thing. I got to look into that. That sounds awesome.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

But then she said Calis. Is that different than.

[Penn Holderness]

I don't know. I'm. Well, I'm going to look it up.

[Kim Holderness]

Should I jump in and describe the difference between Calis and Viagra?

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yes, please.

[Penn Holderness]

Sure.

[Kim Holderness]

Absolutely. Hating that. This is now my.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Okay, okay.

[Penn Holderness]

So Sam. Sam, who is. I don't know if this is her wheelhouse, but is going to tell us.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Sam, this is not going to be something she ever has to encounter. Yeah, no. Viagra is only works for a short.

[Kim Holderness]

Period, around four to five hours, while Cialis is commonly known as the weekend pill because it remains effective for up to 36 hours.

[Penn Holderness]

Okay, okay.

[Kim Holderness]

And Calis is preferred by many men because it offers greater flexibility, making it suitable for those who prefer more. Prefer more spontane.

[Penn Holderness]

Awesome.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I think before we go, we need to hear a laugh line because this is the laugh line. So we need to hear a call from Courtney.

[Penn Holderness]

Part of the show where everyone will find. Call us up and you tell us what's on your mind.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

I recently discovered the hill that I will die on while watching a commercial for a nursing home. My middle aged hobby is jigsaw puzzles. And during the ad, a resident was talking about different activities. And in the background there was a table with an unfinished jigsaw puzzle on it and only the middle was completed. That set off a very strong trigger in me because the hill that I will die on is that you're a psychopath. Unless you start with the outside edges of a jigsaw puzzle. No. But I do believe you should start with the edges.

[Penn Holderness]

Yes. I like. I love that she Said that you're a psychopath if you don't do that. That's the kind of compassion we're looking for on laugh lines.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Yes.

[Penn Holderness]

Like, really what. What I call it. And I have the same issue, like, about Tom Cruise movies. Like, really. Really getting so far into it that you accuse people of treason or being psychopaths if they don't do things your way.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And this was in the background of a commercial. Like, she had to go deep into this. I thought she was gonna say. Because this is our problem with those retirement home commercials, because those are like, grandma has Alzheimer's, and we just. We know it very closely so we know what it's really like. And they're like, oh, but grandma saw a specific brand of car, and now her memories are back. Like, I thought that's what it was gonna be.

[Penn Holderness]

That was. Yeah, I was worried about that, too. That is a hill I will die on. Like, if you're gonna do a commercial about Alzheimer's just to have somebody who knows what it looks like on.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

On hand, I will say the show that did the best job and I honestly want to reach out to the writers was man on the Inside. Man on the Inside with Ted Danson. Yeah, it was. It was. It was so well done that it was hard for our family to watch, because I think for. We watched it, and we loved it, and it was. It was so beautifully done.

[Penn Holderness]

I started a note to make sure you did, and I was like. Like two pages in, talking about how much I love Parks and Rec, but I hadn't even gotten to the point, so I stopped sending it because it was just. It was just like. I didn't even get to the reason why I wanted to write him because of how big of a fan I am.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Does anybody know Mike Schur? He's the writer and creator of Parks and Rec in the American Office and a man on the inside. If you do, Penn would like to send him a really long email or you can just.

[Penn Holderness]

I don't want to waste his time or ask for any intrusion of privacy. Just tell him he did it.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Right.

[Penn Holderness]

Right. Yeah, he did. Dementia. Right. And. And I. That doesn't surprise me about Mike. Sure. Because he's. I think he wants everything to be really good, and that was really good.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Any who.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That. We covered a lot of ground today, folks. We went places. And for that, I will send you on your way. We are wrapping up. Pen. It is time for the credits.

[Penn Holderness]

Accent.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Do we have an accent? Oh, we should do it like your dad. Sound like your dad.

[Penn Holderness]

Laugh Lines is written and produced by Pen Holderness, Kim Holding Us and Hanmarie Tapke with original music by Pen Holderness. It is filmed, edited and live produced by Sam Allen. You know, Sam is just lovely. I got a chance down with Sam. She's a. You know what, She's a piece of work and I mean that in the nice way. Anyway, it's hosted by ACAST and as always, we love to hear from you. Please write to us not a letter, but an email [e-mail] or leave a voicemail on our landline phone phone [phone] and we will talk to you soon on the Laugh Line.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

You have to say something disparaging about Pen Holderness though.

[Penn Holderness]

Yeah? Oh, yeah, sorry, yeah. With an original music by Pen Holder. Pen. Did you actually write that song or did somebody else do it for you? I swear you came out of the womb begging for applause. He actually said that. He was quoted in a newspaper interview at the Durham Morning Herald. The first time I ever was on like a newspaper in Durham, I was so proud. Crowd. That's what my dad said. Pin came out of the womb begging for applause. Thanks, dad.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

But is he wrong? But is he wrong?

[Penn Holderness]

He's not wrong. He's not wrong.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Oh, Heywood. Oh.

[Kim Holderness]

Balance of Nature's fiber and spice supplement is a one of a kind blend with four fibers and 12 aromatic spices. Made with psyllium husk, flaxseed oil, whole apple, monk fruit and 12 incredible spices.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Fiber and Spice is the perfect addition.

[Kim Holderness]

To keep you on the right track every day. Go to balanceofnature.com and get 40% off.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Your first fiber and spice supplement as.

[Kim Holderness]

A new preferred customer by using discount.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Code on the go.

[Kim Holderness]

This back to school season. One thing is clear.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Kids need a way to stay connected.

[Kim Holderness]

Between pickups, practices and after school activities.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

Having a phone is a must.

[Kim Holderness]

But it shouldn't come at the cost of their mental health. The youth mental health crisis is growing.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And social media is a major driver.

[Kim Holderness]

Teens are spending up to nine hours a day on screens and studies show a direct link to anxiety, depression and even suicidal thoughts. That's where Gab comes in. Gab offers kids safe phones and watches with no Internet or social media apps.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

And just the right features for their age. From GPS enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent approved apps for teens. Gab's tech in steps approach grows with your child. So this school year, skip the adult phone.

[Kim Holderness]

Get them Gab social connection without the risks. Visit gab.com getgab and use the code getgab for a special back to school offer.

[Dr. Mary Claire Haver]

That's G-A-B-B.com getgab gab tech in steps.

[Kim Holderness]

Independence for them, Peace of mind for parents this is Mike. Mike's stuck in traffic. The only thing that could make this worse is if he promised to cook his date dinner at 8. Which he did. But it's now 7:30 and he's still on the 5. Good thing Mike has Grubhub plus with Prime. Zero dollar delivery fees, zero stress, zero rush. Dinner's covered and so is his reputation. Free Grubhub Plus. It's on Prime. Additional terms and fees apply.

[Penn Holderness]

Hey, it's Mark Maron from WTF here to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because you chose it well. Choose Progressives. Name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget. So you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try [e-mail] and now some legal info. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.