Podcast
Law of Code
Hosted by Jacob Robinson · EN
Understand the legal layer of emerging technology.
Conversations with top lawyers, regulators, and entrepreneurs on the laws and policy decisions shaping our future.
21episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Interview: OSC CEO Grant Vingoe for Crypto in Canada, Part II
4d ago01:13:22Tap to summarizeGrant Vingoe is the CEO of the Ontario Securities Commission, Canada's largest securities regulator.Grant explains Canada's approach to crypto and why he sees a careful, incremental approach as a strength.Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why.Timestamps:0:00 Intro0:55 From 30 years in New York to running the OSC5:49 How the CSA and Canada's provincial regulators fit together9:01 The crypto contract12:34 Grant's first exposure to crypto16:09 The gamification of financial markets and prediction markets21:22 Making crypto safer for Canadians, from ETFs onward26:30 Stablecoins29:52 The Stablecoin Act and federal regulators35:02 The $30,000 purchase limit38:18 How industry can better engage regulators45:02 Canada's brain drain question50:34 Modernizing the regulation of public companies54:17 Permissionless finance 1:01:13 Accredited investor rulesThank you to our other sponsors:McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnahOsler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/ Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technologySolana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.
Transcribe →#207 - Crypto in Canada
4d ago00:59:54Tap to summarizeHow does Canada regulate crypto? This podcast answers that in less than 60 minutes. You'll hear from Grant Vingoe, CEO of the OSC, Eric Richmond, CEO of Coinbase Canada, the Bank of Canada's Anne Butler, McCarthy's Lori Stein, Osler's Matt Burgoyne, Evan Thomas, Dr. Ryan Clements of the ASC and Blair Wiley of Wealthsimple.Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why.Timestamps:0:00 Intro2:42 Tax4:53 AML Rules8:06 Securities12:00 Investment contracts16:13 Quadriga's collapse23:00 The Crypto Contract34:29 World's first Bitcoin ETF38:23 Stablecoins46:47 Where Canada could play offense: DeFi, perps and tokenization52:53 The speed problemNothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice.Thank you to our other sponsors:McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnahOsler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/ Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technologySolana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.
Transcribe →Interview: Legora's Kyle Poe on the Future of AI & Law Firms
1w ago00:30:08Tap to summarizeKyle Poe is a former BigLaw partner and currently VP of Legal Innovation and Strategy at Legora, a legal AI startup valued at $5.6 billion.Kyle explains why he sees a generational reordering happening in the legal profession, how firms are best institutionalizing partner knowledge as IP, and where the moat exists for lawyers as AI grows in ubiquity. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why.Timestamps:0:00 Intro0:56 The billable hour and the incentive problem inside firms2:36 Institutionalizing partner knowledge as firm IP4:02 Why partner buyouts are accelerating5:56 Why AI is different from the internet and email9:31 How top firms are operationalizing AI12:35 Building innovation teams from the top down14:37 More lawyers or fewer? The future of demand19:20 Grinders, minders and finders22:10 What lawyers should be asking about AI25:13 Legora's moatThank you to our other sponsors:Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technologySolana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.
Transcribe →#206 - How lawyers are using AI in 2026
3w ago01:31:53Tap to summarizeBy the end of this episode, you'll understand how lawyers are actually AI maxxing in 2026, and how you can, too.Timestamps:0:00 Intro1:58 Why it's the best time to be a lawyer3:03 Hallucinations and cognitive surrender 5:33 Quality over efficiency8:13 Why AI upends legal work15:20 60% of contracts filed to EDGAR have mistakes20:04 How LLMs actually work25:59 Zero data retention, explained29:16 The privacy risk beyond training39:16 How to prompt 47:03 Michael Showalter's AI-native litigation stack55:27 Spellbook's Compare to Market Feature1:03:10 Building a regulatory agent1:09:50 The judgment crisis for junior lawyers1:12:15 Cooley's AI training methodYou'll hear from 10 people at the cutting edge of legal AI:Zack Shapiro, Founder and Managing Partner at Rains LLPMolly Abraham, General Counsel at CoinbaseSujit Raman, Chief Legal Officer at TRM LabsMichael Showalter, Founder of Showalter PLLCErich Dylus, attorney, programmer and creator of CamoTextAaron Kelly, General Counsel and open source AI expertDavid Wang, Chief Innovation Officer at CooleyScott Stevenson, CEO of SpellbookJustin McCallon, CEO of StrongSuitSamson Enzer, Partner at Cahill Gordon & ReindelThis episode is presented by Altitude, visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system.Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm.Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QAcE1sQAKZIkma20DbyB5frgKdiK8UB6Fkb6CwaVP1I/edit Sponsors: Thank you to the Hyperliquid Policy Center and Solana Policy Institute for supporting this podcast.To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Transcribe →#205 - Code & Free Speech
Jul 1302:00:48Tap to summarizeWhen should software lose free speech protections?This podcast covers software and the First Amendment, tracing the history from Cold War export controls to recent restrictions on advanced AI models. My goal: the internet's most comprehensive explainer on speech and code, from cryptography to cryptocurrency to AI.In this episode, you'll hear from leading experts on the legal layer of software and free speech:Peter Van Valkenburgh, Executive Director at Coin CenterLaz Pieper, Director of Research at Coin CenterEugene Volokh, First Amendment scholar and Fellow at the Hoover InstitutionJane Bambauer, Brechner Eminent Scholar at the University of FloridaPreston Byrne, Managing Partner at Byrne & StormSam Enzer, partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel and co-chair of CahillNXTBy the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding when code is protected speech, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.)This episode is presented by Altitude, visit Altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system.Timestamps:0:00 Anthropic AI export controls6:17 Introduction9:39 Reading the First Amendment10:38 Eugene Volokh on his First Amendment philosophy13:42 The machine gun sculpture: speech vs function19:24 Peter Van Valkenburgh interview25:50 The Cold War, munitions list and Phil Zimmermann29:57 The Bernstein case34:53 Strict scrutiny38:48 The Corley case49:17 Sorrell, Stevens and where the Supreme Court is heading53:25 Preston Byrne on the Supreme Court's AI case57:23 Defense Distributed and 3D-printing1:04:00 Where publication ends and professional conduct begins1:15:20 Lowe v. SEC and the agency line1:45:45 Compelled speech, the IRS broker rule and tobacco labels2:04:17 Laz Pieper on Sorrell and third-party liability2:11:29 Preston Byrne on the GRANITE Act and foreign censorshipNewsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. https://www.lawofcode.fm/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7Sponsors: Thank you to the Hyperliquid Policy Center and Solana Policy Institute for supporting this podcast.To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Subscribe to Cahill's free client alerts on digital assets and emerging technology at https://www.cahill.com/news/index?search=1&practice=litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology.Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Transcribe →#204 - Prediction Markets
Jun 3002:55:47Tap to summarizePrediction markets are a multi-billion dollar industry, led by companies like Kalshi and Polymarket. They are also controversial. Some want them banned and believe they are operating illegally, while others see them as invaluable truth-seeking markets.This podcast is a multi-hour deep dive on prediction markets, starting from conclave betting in 15th century Rome to the CFTC's proposed rulemaking on Rule 40.11 earlier this month.My goal: The internet's most comprehensive explainer on prediction markets.By the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding prediction markets, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.)Timestamps:0:00 Intro1:40 16th century papal betting (Koleman Strumpf)11:13 Insider trading rules on prediction markets (Bobby DeNault)16:20 The Google search insider case and Rule 180.1 (Sam Enzer)27:38 Why prediction markets matter (Chris Giancarlo)33:20 Election betting in America38:35 Iowa Electronic Markets and the 1992 no-action letter45:56 Dodd-Frank, swaps and the Special Rule48:08 Senator Lincoln on Super Bowl and Derby contracts55:49 Parlays as swaps (Josh Sterling)1:01:23 CFTC's exclusive jurisdiction (Thania Charmani)1:07:30 Perspective on the CFTC's NPRM (Michael Passalacqua)1:14:55 Exceptions that swallow the rule (Paul Grewal)1:27:25 How prediction markets actually work1:36:05 Kalshi's probability-weighted fee structure1:38:18 Cardi B and the resolution problem (Dustin Gouker)1:45:05 Oracles, UMA and decentralized resolution (Jeff Amico)1:51:55 Inside the Ninth Circuit case2:07:49 The CFTC's June 2026 proposed rulemaking (Brad Bourque, Stefan Schropp)2:19:06 Kalshi's landmark 2024 win2:23:05 PASPA, Murphy v. NCAA (Daniel Wallach)2:45:14 The case against banning prediction markets (Bobby DeNault)Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. https://www.lawofcode.fm/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7Sponsors: This episode is sponsored by Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Hyperliquid Policy Center, and the Solana Policy Institute. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how the issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Subscribe to Cahill's free client alerts on digital assets and emerging technology at https://www.cahill.com/news/index?search=1&practice=litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology.In this episode, you'll hear from the world's leading experts on the legal layer of prediction markets:Josh Sterling, partner at MillbankBobby DeNault, Head of Enforcement at KalshiChris Giancarlo, former Chairman of the CFTCDaniel Wallach, founder of Wallach Legal LLCStefan Schropp, Senior Regulatory Counsel at ParadigmSam Enzer, partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel and co-chair of CahillNXTPaul Grewal, Chief Legal Officer at CoinbaseKoleman Strumpf, economics professor at Wake ForestBrad Bourque, Policy Counsel at Hyperliquid Policy CenterThania Charmani, partner at Winston & TaylorMichael Passalacqua, Senior Advisor to CFTC Chairman SeligJeff Amico, Chief Operating Officer at GensynMatt Kalish, co-founder of DraftKings and CEO of HardscopeDustin Gouker, author of the Event Horizons newsletterDisclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Transcribe →#203 - How the SEC Writes Crypto Rules
Jun 1500:59:26Tap to summarizeHow do regulators actually write the rules for crypto? SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce and Taylor Lindman, Chief Counsel of the SEC's Crypto Task Force, take us inside the process, recorded at the SEC offices in Washington, D.C.We cover CLARITY Act rulemaking, lessons from Dodd-Frank, principles-based regulation and navigating the risks of decentralized projects. If you want to understand how an agency like the SEC actually works, this episode is for you.Timestamps:0:00 Intro1:20 Commissioner Peirce's philosophy on capital markets5:04 Rulemaking at the SEC6:48 The SEC's divisions, explained8:27 How the Crypto Task Force is staffed10:37 Lessons from Dodd-Frank13:10 Legal artisans15:15 The Clarity Act deadlines18:55 Decentralized intermediaries20:56 Principles-based vs prescriptive regulation24:49 Tackling difficult crypto questions26:23 Leveraging AI for data review29:46 "Come in and register" under this SEC33:50 SEC & CFTC collaboration35:52 Re-engaging the crypto industry40:00 Crypto Task Force & the Clarity Act45:54 The SEC's non-crypto priorities48:41 Avoiding another regulation-by-enforcement era57:14 Thank you to Sam Enzer, Lewis Cohen and Cahill, plus a shoutout to Day One Law and Nick PullmanNewsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can stay updated on emerging tech law for free here: https://www.lawofcode.fm/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Transcribe →#202 - Perps
Jun 102:13:32Tap to summarizeOver a trillion dollars worth of perps are traded every month, yet 99% people have never heard of them. Fewer understand how they work.This podcast is a multi-hour deep dive on perps, starting from the history of grain futures in Chicago to a historic CFTC announcement on Friday, May 29, 2026.My goal: The internet's most comprehensive explainer on perps.In this episode, you'll hear from the world's leading experts on the legal layer of perps: Hyperliquid Policy Center CEO Jake Chervinsky and policy counsel Brad Bourque BrettHarrison, CEO of ArchitectKatherine Kirkpatrick Bos, general counsel of StarkWareRyne Miller, partner at Morrison FoersterMike Frisch, partner at Croke Fairchild David Shafer, lawyer at CoinbaseBy the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding perps, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.)Timestamps:0:00 Intro4:04 What is a perp? 7:18 Why futures contracts exist8:15 Liquidity fragmentation11:01 History of U.S. futures 17:08 Richard Nixon, the gold standard and financial futures 21:27 Birth of the CFTC24:27 Robert Shiller's 1992 paper30:09 Price convergence32:00 The funding rate 43:41 Oracles and manipulation risk47:39 Are perps swaps or futures? 52:44 A @ChairmanSelig clip on perps54:02 The DCM framework59:16 DCMs, DCOs and FCMs explained1:04:55 History of crypto perps (BitMEX, FTX)1:13:00 How Hyperliquid works 1:25:41 CFTC's historic announcements on May 29, 20261:35:00 Fireside with @jchervinsky and @BradBourque of @HyperliquidPC Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can stay updated on emerging tech law for free here. https://www.lawofcode.fm/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Transcribe →#201 - The CLARITY Act
May 1801:53:46Tap to summarizeWhat is the CLARITY Act? Maybe the most important piece of financial legislation in a generation. This podcast explains the history of U.S. digital asset regulation, why regulation-by-enforcement failed and what the CLARITY Act addresses, plus remaining steps for this to become law.Guests:Lewis Cohen, Partner & Co-Chair of CahillNXT's Digital Assets & Emerging Technology practiceMiles Jennings, Head of Policy & General Counsel for a16z cryptoSarah Brennan, general counsel at Delphi VenturesKyle Bligen, Head of Policy and Public Affairs at the Decentralization Research CenterMiller Whitehouse-Levine, CEO at Solana Policy InstituteDugan Bliss, Head of Litigation at BinanceBy the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the 99th percentile for understanding CLARITY, regardless of whether you're a lawyer, builder or operator. Timestamps:0:00 Intro4:46 Explaining market structure6:05 Regulatory distortion10:43 Predecessor bills13:35 Senate Banking markup takeaways 15:46 SEC & CFTC20:37 The Securities Act of 193323:07 The Howey Test25:26 The Ineluctable Modality of Securities Law 28:51 SEC enforcement32:32 Why SEC rulemaking isn't enough37:36 Titles of CLARITY40:00 Digital commodities47:29 Investment contract principles 54:10 Promoters: originators58:18 Promoters: related persons 1:04:13 Token taxonomy 1:11:02 Ancillary asset requirements1:19:34 The certification process 1:28:32 Remaining hurdles for CLARITY1:34:50 Stablecoin yield1:38:45 Ethics 1:45:50 Tax consequences 1:48:54 Thanking people working on the bill, such as @SenLummis, @gillibrandny, @SenatorTimScott, @SenatorHagerty, @SenThomTillis, @MarkWarner, @SenRubenGallego, @Sen_Alsobrooks, their staffs & many, many others.Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can stay updated on emerging tech law for free here. https://www.lawofcode.fm/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Transcribe →#200 - Money Transmission & Developer Liability
May 401:49:26Tap to summarizeCan the U.S. government send a software developer to prison for writing and publishing code? That's the question at the center of the Tornado Cash and Samourai Wallet prosecutions, and every crypto founder, builder and investor should understand the answer.This deep-dive episode walks through the history of U.S. money transmission law, how the DOJ is applying it to non-custodial software developers, what the Roman Storm verdict actually means, and what new legislation could change in 2026.Guests:Peter Van Valkenburgh — Executive Director, Coin CenterAmanda Tuminelli — Chief Executive Officer, DeFi Education FundBrian Klein — Partner at Cooley, lead defense attorney for Roman StormJake Chervinsky — Hyperliquid Policy Center (cameo)This is the most comprehensive podcast I've ever done. Welcome to Law of Code, Season 2.Timestamps:0:00 Intro3:18 What's at stake?4:40 Which developers are at risk6:03 Custodial vs. non-custodial9:32 What is a money transmission license?9:47 Steamships, the telegraph & Western Union12:14 The Bank Secrecy Act13:38 Section 196015:26 The Patriot Act19:39 FinCEN's 2013 and 2019 guidance24:42 OFAC sanctions Tornado Cash 27:30 How Tornado Cash works 30:48 Coin Center v. Yellen 32:24 DOJ indicts Roman Storm, Roman Semenov, Roman Sterlingov & Samourai Wallet developers35:15 The Van Loon win 40:33 Developer losses43:48 Bad facts make bad law48:46 Brian Klein on Roman Storm's case 50:50 The Brady letter57:00 Michael Lewellen sues for answers1:09:24 The Blanche memo1:18:46 The Galeotti speech1:26:13 Catch-22 for developers 1:30:03 The chilling effect on U.S. innovation1:33:48 Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act 1:38:03 Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act1:45:28 What's nextNothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice. Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can stay updated on emerging tech law for free here. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.
Transcribe →