Podcast
Lawsy Originals
Hosted by Hugo · EN
Conversations with lawyers about the real stories behind their careers.
19episodes
Episodes
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Darren Rogers, Head of Real Estate at McDermott Will & Schulte — On Building Client Relationships, life in US Law Firms and the Future of Real Assets
6d ago00:31:26Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Darren Rogers, Head of Real Estate in London at McDermott Will & Schulte, shares the career decisions that shaped his journey from trainee to leading one of the firm's fastest-growing practice areas.Darren reflects on qualifying outside London before making the move to the City, explaining why he left a structured environment at CMS after just six months to join a smaller, fast-growing team. He discusses how that decision accelerated his career by giving him greater responsibility, earlier client exposure and the confidence to lead major transactions at a young age.The conversation explores the importance of backing yourself when opportunities arise. Darren shares how taking calculated career risks, embracing responsibility and being willing to step outside his comfort zone helped shape his progression to partnership.A major focus of the discussion is client relationship building. Darren explains why technical legal ability is only the starting point, arguing that the best lawyers invest time in understanding clients as people, developing authentic relationships and building a personal brand that extends beyond the firm's reputation.The episode also explores leadership and mentoring. Darren reflects on developing junior lawyers, encouraging them to negotiate directly with clients, make mistakes early and build confidence through experience rather than relying solely on carefully drafted emails.Darren discusses several pivotal moments throughout his career, including defending major client relationships after a team split and later making the move into US law firms as the legal market became increasingly global. He explains why he believed US firms would fundamentally reshape London's legal landscape and how that prediction has played out over the past decade.The conversation examines the cultural differences between UK and US firms, particularly around entrepreneurship, client ownership and long-term relationship building. Darren explains why trusted adviser relationships are built on authenticity, friendship and understanding clients' motivations rather than simply delivering high-quality legal advice.The episode also explores how the real estate market is evolving. Darren discusses the growing convergence between traditional real estate and infrastructure, with data centres becoming one of the most important asset classes as demand for AI infrastructure continues to accelerate.He also explains how liquidity challenges, ESG requirements and higher interest rates are reshaping investment strategies, driving increased interest in preferred equity, secondaries, value-add opportunities and brown-to-green redevelopment projects.Finally, Darren reflects on the competing priorities facing the built environment, including balancing AI infrastructure, sustainability, housing demand and industrial development. He argues that lawyers advising real estate clients increasingly need to understand not just property law, but the wider commercial, political and technological forces reshaping the global economy.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Meet Darren Rogers 01:00 Training Outside London 02:00 Moving to Cameron McKenna 03:00 Taking a Career Risk Early 04:00 Learning Through Responsibility 05:00 Building Client Relationships 06:00 Personal Brand vs Firm Brand 07:00 Mentoring Junior Lawyers 08:00 Defending Major Client Relationships 09:00 Becoming a Partner 10:00 Moving into US Law Firms 12:00 Why US Firms Changed London 14:00 Trusted Adviser Relationships 16:00 The Future of Real Estate 18:00 Data Centres & AI Infrastructure 20:00 Liquidity, ESG & Investment Trends 22:00 Brown-to-Green Redevelopment 24:00 AI vs Sustainability Priorities 27:00 Final Reflections & Career Advice
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Future Trainee Series: Fleur Florin
2w ago00:13:41Tap to summarizeFleur Florin, Future Trainee Solicitor at Norton Rose Fulbright — On Standing Out, Securing a Training Contract and Building a Legal CareerIn this episode, Fleur swaps the interviewer's chair for the guest seat to reflect on the biggest lessons she's learned from interviewing aspiring lawyers and future trainees who have successfully secured training contracts at leading law firms.Fleur explains that one theme emerged consistently throughout every conversation: the strongest candidates all had a genuine reason for pursuing commercial law. Rather than chasing the profession for prestige or salary, they had developed authentic interests through books, work experience, university or part-time jobs and that enthusiasm naturally came across during interviews and assessment centres.The conversation explores how candidates can improve their communication skills, from reducing filler words and becoming more articulate to practising interview answers by speaking aloud. Fleur shares the technique she used to prepare for assessment centres and vacation schemes, including talking to herself in the mirror every day and discussing recent Financial Times and Bloomberg stories to build confidence and fluency.The episode also dives into the importance of body language and presentation during interviews. Fleur explains why making eye contact with the camera during video interviews, improving posture and practising confident communication can make a significant difference throughout the recruitment process.A major focus of the discussion is standing out during assessment centres and vacation schemes. Fleur explains why applicants should avoid becoming either invisible or overbearing during group exercises, instead aiming to be collaborative, personable and someone that colleagues would genuinely enjoy working alongside.The conversation explores how aspiring lawyers can differentiate themselves long before submitting an application. Fleur argues that building a broad range of experiences—through part-time jobs, leadership positions, sport, societies, internships and open days—creates stronger interview answers and demonstrates genuine commercial awareness far more effectively than academic results alone.Fleur also shares practical advice on networking and integrating into law firms during vacation schemes, including proactively joining firm societies, attending social events and making genuine connections with people across the business rather than focusing exclusively on lawyers.The discussion highlights the growing importance of understanding businesses from the inside. Whether working in retail, hospitality, construction or another industry, Fleur explains how commercial work experience helps aspiring lawyers understand clients, communicate more effectively and develop practical commercial awareness.Finally, Fleur encourages aspiring lawyers to stop waiting for opportunities to appear. From cold-emailing companies for work experience to attending open days and building skills outside the classroom, she explains why consistent initiative and persistence often separate successful applicants from everyone else.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Lessons from Interviewing Future Trainees 01:00 Finding Your Genuine Motivation 02:00 Speaking with Confidence 03:00 Practising for Interviews 04:00 Body Language & Video Interviews 05:00 Standing Out at Assessment Centres 06:00 Confidence Without Being Overbearing 07:00 Building a Strong CV Beyond Academics 08:00 Why Sport & Leadership Matter 09:00 Networking During Vacation Schemes 10:00 Understanding Businesses & Clients 11:00 Cold Outreach & Finding Work Experience 12:00 Taking Initiative Early in Your Career 13:00 Final Advice for Aspiring Lawyers
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Future Trainee Series: Louis Sheridan
3w ago00:15:56Tap to summarizeLouis Sheridan, Future Trainee Solicitor at Paul, Weiss — On Private Equity, Commercial Awareness and Writing Standout ApplicationsIn this episode, Louis Sheridan shares his journey to securing a training contract at Paul, Weiss, explaining how a genuine fascination with private equity, relentless curiosity and a distinctive approach to commercial awareness helped him stand out during one of the most competitive recruitment processes in the legal industry.Louis reflects on the exact moment he decided to pursue commercial law after listening to The Caesars Palace Coup, a book exploring one of the largest leveraged buyouts and corporate restructurings in history. That experience sparked a deep interest in private capital, debt finance and the technical side of commercial law, leading him to immerse himself in finance, accounting and credit analysis alongside his legal studies.The conversation explores how Louis approached applications to elite US law firms, explaining why candidates should never self-select out of applying simply because a firm's intake appears highly competitive. Instead, he argues that authenticity, conviction and concise writing are far more powerful than relying on generic phrases or repeating facts that graduate recruiters already know.Louis also explains what differentiates Paul, Weiss in the London market, discussing its reputation for advising leading private equity sponsors, complex financing transactions and sophisticated cross-border deals. He shares why the firm's transactional focus perfectly matched his long-term interests.A major focus of the episode is developing genuine commercial awareness. Rather than reading the news to memorise headlines, Louis explains how he followed topics that genuinely interested him, using books, Bloomberg newsletters, podcasts and court hearings to build a deeper understanding of finance and commercial transactions.The discussion also explores how candidates can discover the practice areas that genuinely interest them. Louis encourages aspiring lawyers to read widely, remain curious and pursue subjects that naturally capture their attention rather than feeling pressured to specialise too early.Louis shares practical advice on using commercial awareness during vacation schemes, explaining that the goal is not to impress lawyers with technical knowledge but to have thoughtful conversations, ask intelligent questions and demonstrate genuine enthusiasm for the work.The conversation also provides valuable insights into what to expect during a vacation scheme, from reviewing transaction documents and carrying out legal research to working with supervisors across different practice areas. Louis explains why preparation should focus less on predicting technical tasks and more on developing professionalism, curiosity and strong communication skills.Throughout the episode, Louis returns to one central message: aspiring lawyers should think independently. Whether writing applications, researching firms or developing commercial awareness, he argues that original thinking and genuine interest will always stand out more than rehearsed answers or well-worn clichés.Finally, Louis shares advice for future applicants on writing with impact, staying intellectually curious and remembering that successful applications are built on authenticity rather than trying to say what recruiters want to hear.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Meet Louis Sheridan 01:00 The Book That Led Him to Commercial Law 02:00 Why Private Equity & Debt Finance? 03:00 Applying to Paul, Weiss 04:00 Writing Authentic Applications 05:00 Standing Out Through Strong Writing 06:00 What Makes Paul, Weiss Different? 07:00 Discovering a Practice Area 08:00 Building Genuine Commercial Awareness 09:00 Reading Beyond the FT 10:00 Using Commercial Awareness on Vacation Schemes 11:00 Conversations vs Showing Off Knowledge 12:00 What to Expect on a Vacation Scheme 13:00 Preparing for Legal Tasks 14:00 Final Advice for Aspiring Lawyers
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Future Trainee Series: Hasti Mozhdehi
4w ago00:15:10Tap to summarizeHasti Mozhdehi, Future Trainee Solicitor at Latham & Watkins — From Retail Management to Securing a Training ContractIn this episode, Hasti Mozhdehi shares her journey to securing a training contract at Latham & Watkins, explaining how leadership experience outside law, a focused application strategy and genuine relationship building helped her stand out.Hasti reflects on discovering commercial law during her gap year while working her way up from sales associate to store manager in retail. Managing a retail business exposed her to financial performance, commercial decision-making, employment issues and risk management, giving her an early understanding of how law and business work together.The conversation explores Hasti's unique journey with Latham, beginning with the firm's first-year scheme before becoming a campus brand ambassador, completing a vacation scheme and ultimately securing a training contract. She explains why remaining committed to one firm allowed her to develop meaningful relationships and gain a deeper understanding of its culture.Hasti also discusses what initially attracted her to Latham, from its combination of US firm expertise and full-service practice areas to its commitment to continuous professional development. She explains why the firm's investment in training at every stage of a lawyer's career made a lasting impression.A major focus of the episode is application strategy. Rather than applying to dozens of firms, Hasti explains why she prioritised quality over quantity, concentrating on firms where she had a genuine motivation to apply and investing significant time researching what truly differentiated each one.The conversation also explores how candidates can make non-legal experience stand out. Hasti explains how her management background developed leadership, communication, emotional intelligence and commercial awareness—skills that proved invaluable throughout the recruitment process.Hasti shares practical advice for students preparing for vacation schemes, including taking ownership of opportunities, managing workloads effectively and balancing networking, workshops and assessed tasks while maintaining enthusiasm throughout the programme.The discussion also highlights the importance of commercial awareness, proactive learning and using resources such as Forage virtual work experiences to develop practical legal knowledge before applying to firms.Throughout the episode, Hasti returns to one central theme: building genuine relationships. From trainees and partners to reception and support staff, she explains why taking the time to connect with everyone in a firm creates a far more rewarding experience and leaves a lasting impression.Finally, Hasti shares advice for aspiring commercial lawyers on researching firms properly, reflecting on your own experiences and remembering that technical ability alone is never enough—successful candidates are also approachable, collaborative and genuinely interested in the people around them.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Meet Hasti Mozhdehi 01:00 Why Commercial Law? 02:00 Retail Management & Commercial Awareness 03:00 Hasti's Journey with Latham 04:00 Why Latham & Watkins? 05:00 Training, Culture & People 06:00 Quality vs Quantity in Applications 07:00 Standing Out Through Leadership Experience 08:00 Using Forage & Building Commercial Awareness 09:00 Researching Law Firms Properly 10:00 Converting a Vacation Scheme 11:00 Managing Workload & Taking Initiative 12:00 Building Relationships Across the Firm 13:00 Being Personable During a Vacation Scheme 14:00 Final Advice for Aspiring Lawyers
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Future Trainee Series: Dana Altunisi
Jul 1500:10:31Tap to summarizeDana Altunisi, Future Trainee Solicitor at Dentons — From Professional Ballet to Securing a Training ContractIn this episode, Dana Altunisi shares her journey securing a training contract at Dentons, explaining how she navigated the solicitor vs barrister decision, leveraged her international background and found ways to stand out in one of the most competitive graduate recruitment markets.Dana reflects on entering law without always knowing commercial law was the right path. Through university, mini pupillage and vacation schemes, she gradually realised that the intellectually challenging, collaborative and international nature of commercial law was a far better fit for her personality and long-term ambitions.The conversation explores why she ultimately chose the solicitor route after completing seven mini pupillages. Dana compares life at the Bar with working in commercial law firms, discussing the importance of teamwork, cross-border work and building long-term professional relationships.Dana also shares practical advice for students deciding between becoming a solicitor or barrister, explaining why speaking to junior lawyers, gaining real work experience and understanding the realities of both application processes is far more valuable than relying on common misconceptions.The episode dives into the differences between mini pupillage and vacation schemes, highlighting how the two experiences develop different skills and why vacation schemes provide a much broader insight into life inside a commercial law firm.A major focus of the discussion is standing out as an international candidate. Dana explains how speaking Arabic, English, French and Spanish became much more than a line on her CV by demonstrating cultural awareness, adaptability and her ambition to build a future career working across the Middle East.The conversation also explores how candidates can differentiate themselves during applications. Rather than focusing solely on legal knowledge, Dana explains why her background as a professional ballet dancer became one of the strongest parts of her interviews, allowing her to demonstrate discipline, resilience and performing under pressure in a memorable way.Dana also shares detailed insights into Dentons' direct training contract assessment centre, explaining why she preferred the assessment centre format over vacation schemes and offering practical preparation strategies, including building a master document of competency questions, learning commercial terminology and practising interview answers out loud.Finally, Dana reflects on the inevitable rejection that comes with applying for training contracts. She encourages aspiring lawyers to accept setbacks as part of the process, remain resilient and remember that success often comes after many unsuccessful applications.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Meet Dana Altunisi 01:00 Why Commercial Law? 02:00 Solicitor vs Barrister 03:00 Seven Mini Pupillages Later 04:00 Mini Pupillages vs Vacation Schemes 05:00 Using Languages to Stand Out 06:00 Building an International Career 07:00 Professional Ballet & Transferable Skills 08:00 Standing Out in Applications 09:00 Dentons' Direct Assessment Centre 10:00 Preparing for Assessment Centres 11:00 Commercial Awareness & Technical Questions 12:00 Practising Interview Technique 13:00 Dealing with Rejection 14:00 Final Advice for Aspiring Lawyers
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Future Trainee Series: Heidi Daryanani
Jul 800:12:59Tap to summarizeHeidi Daryanani, Future Trainee Solicitor at RPC — On Paralegal Experience, Training Contracts and Standing Out in ApplicationsIn this episode, Heidi shares her journey from growing up between India, Ireland and the UK to securing a training contract at RPC, offering practical advice for aspiring lawyers navigating the increasingly competitive route into commercial law.Heidi reflects on discovering commercial law through years of study and practical experience rather than following a predetermined plan. She explains why spending time inside law firms, working alongside lawyers and reflecting on what genuinely interests you is often the best way to determine whether a legal career is the right fit.The conversation explores Heidi's experiences working as a paralegal at both a leading US law firm and a specialist human rights practice. She discusses working on the UK COVID-19 Inquiry, helping prepare witness questions and submissions, before moving into high-value international arbitration and complex commercial litigation at a US firm.Heidi explains why paralegal experience can provide far more than legal knowledge. From drafting documents and managing clients to understanding billing, communication and the commercial realities of legal practice, she highlights how these experiences build confidence long before starting a training contract.A major focus of the episode is the competitive paralegal job market. Heidi shares the challenges of applying after graduation, the importance of persistence and how working with recruitment agencies, remaining open-minded and being willing to start in document review helped launch her legal career.The discussion also explores how candidates can use paralegal experience effectively during training contract applications. Heidi explains how she linked her practical experience to the firm's strengths, demonstrated genuine interest in litigation and arbitration, and used conversations with trainees and recent judgments to show commercial awareness and preparation.The conversation offers valuable insights into how law firms assess candidates beyond academic performance. Heidi explains why understanding how firms operate as businesses, appreciating client relationships and recognising the commercial pressures faced by lawyers helped strengthen both her applications and interviews.Throughout the episode, Heidi emphasises the importance of resilience during the application process. She discusses how rejection is an inevitable part of pursuing a training contract and why candidates should focus on objective self-improvement rather than assuming every rejection reflects their ability.Finally, Heidi shares practical advice for aspiring lawyers: stay persistent, keep building experience wherever possible, remain open to unexpected opportunities and remember that it only takes one firm to recognise your potential.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Meet Heidi Daryanani 01:00 Why Commercial Law? 02:00 Working as a Paralegal 03:00 The COVID-19 Inquiry Experience 04:00 Human Rights vs US Law Firms 05:00 Skills You Gain as a Paralegal 06:00 Finding Your First Paralegal Role 07:00 Recruitment Agencies & Document Review 08:00 Standing Out in Applications 09:00 Using Paralegal Experience in Interviews 10:00 Litigation, Arbitration & Commercial Awareness 11:00 Understanding Law Firms as Businesses 12:00 Building Practical Legal Skills 13:00 Dealing with Rejection & Staying Resilient 14:00 Final Advice for Aspiring Lawyers
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Future Trainee Series: Yusuf Serang
Jul 100:17:11Tap to summarizeYusuf Serang, Future Trainee Solicitor at Fieldfisher — From India to a Training Contract in the UKIn this episode, Yusuf shares his inspiring journey from Mumbai to securing a training contract at Fieldfisher, offering practical advice for aspiring lawyers on networking, academic success and standing out in competitive applications.Yusuf reflects on moving to the UK as an international student to study law at Swansea University and explains how he approached university with an open mind, exploring different areas of legal practice before discovering that commercial law best matched his interests in solving business problems and helping clients achieve their objectives.The conversation explores how gaining experience at a high street firm, an international in-house legal team and across different commercial practice areas helped him refine his career goals and develop a genuine understanding of what commercial lawyers actually do.Yusuf also discusses the challenges of building a professional network from scratch in a new country. From travelling across the UK to attend networking events to finding mentors and even securing legal work experience through conversations at his part-time job, he explains why curiosity and consistently asking questions opened doors throughout his career.A major focus of the episode is academic excellence. Yusuf explains how a chance conversation during his first year at university transformed his mindset and ultimately led him to graduate top of his cohort with the highest overall average. He breaks down the four key ingredients of a first-class law essay and shares practical advice that any law student can apply to improve their grades.The conversation also explores interview preparation, with Yusuf explaining why self-awareness became his greatest advantage. Rather than memorising model answers, he reflects on how analysing every work experience, identifying lessons learned and understanding his own strengths enabled him to answer unexpected interview questions with confidence.Yusuf also challenges one of the biggest myths surrounding training contract applications—that only legal work experience matters. Drawing on his experience working in a timber yard, he explains how transferable skills such as communication, attention to detail, organisation and problem solving can be just as valuable when presented effectively in interviews.Throughout the episode, Yusuf emphasises the importance of reflecting on experiences rather than simply listing responsibilities, showing how any role can demonstrate commercial awareness, resilience and client-focused thinking.Finally, Yusuf shares practical advice for aspiring lawyers, encouraging students to stay curious, take every opportunity available, build meaningful relationships and remember that consistent self-reflection is often the difference between a good application and an exceptional one.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Meet Yusuf Serang 01:00 Why Commercial Law? 03:00 From India to Swansea University 04:00 Building a Network from Scratch 05:00 Finding Mentors & Work Experience 06:00 What Yusuf Would Do Differently 07:00 Graduating Top of His Cohort 09:00 The Four Ingredients of a First-Class Essay 10:30 Developing Critical Analysis 11:00 Self-Awareness for Interview Success 12:30 Preparing for Assessment Centres 13:00 Why Non-Legal Experience Matters 14:00 Transferable Skills from a Part-Time Job 15:00 Turning Timber Sales into Interview Success 16:00 Practical Advice for Aspiring Lawyers 17:00 Final Reflections
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Ian Bagshaw, Managing Partner at Perkins Coie London — The Future of Law Firms, AI & Training the Next Generation
Jun 2400:57:45Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Ian Bagshaw shares his remarkable career journey from accidental lawyer to Managing Partner of Perkins Coie London, offering a fascinating perspective on how technology, talent and culture are reshaping the legal profession.Ian reflects on working his way into law through an unexpected route and beginning his career at Eversheds before becoming one of the youngest partners at Clifford Chance. He went on to lead Private Equity at Linklaters, serve as Global Head of Private Equity at White & Case and after four years outside private practice, returned to launch Perkins Coie’s London office.The conversation explores the evolution of private equity over the last three decades, from management buyouts to today's private capital market and how client relationships and business development have always been at the heart of successful legal careers.Ian explains why he believes the future belongs to lawyers who build trust rather than simply provide technical advice, arguing that AI will make legal expertise more accessible while making judgement, relationships and commercial awareness even more valuable.A major focus of the episode is Perkins Coie's innovative approach to training junior lawyers. Ian discusses the firm's Legal Business Analyst programme, which accelerates qualification while teaching not only legal skills but also the business of law, client service and relationship building from day one.The discussion challenges many traditional assumptions about legal training. Rather than expecting trainees to learn through repetition and low-level tasks, Ian argues that simulation, on-demand learning and AI-powered coaching can dramatically accelerate development and create more confident, capable lawyers.He shares how Perkins Coie is using technology to transform legal education, from gamified learning platforms and virtual internships to AI avatars that coach communication, emotional intelligence and business skills. Drawing comparisons with professional sport and aviation, Ian questions why lawyers should continue learning primarily "on the job" when other industries rely heavily on simulation and structured training.The conversation also explores how AI is changing legal practice beyond document review. Ian explains why the biggest opportunity is not simply using tools like Harvey or Legora but redesigning legal workflows, creating scalable playbooks and removing repetitive tasks so lawyers can focus on higher-value client relationships and strategic advice.Beyond private practice, Ian discusses his time helping build Zero Gravity, the social mobility organisation founded on the principle that "talent is everywhere, opportunity isn't." He explains how technology is being used to create virtual internships that could give thousands of aspiring lawyers access to meaningful legal work experience regardless of their background.Throughout the episode, Ian returns to a central theme: that the future of law belongs to firms which prioritise talent development, embrace innovation and create cultures where collaboration, coaching and continuous learning replace hierarchy and repetition.00:00 Introduction 00:30 Meet Ian Bagshaw 01:00 An Accidental Route Into Law 02:30 From Eversheds to Magic Circle 04:00 Discovering Private Equity 05:30 Cold Calling & Early Business Development 07:00 Why Client Relationships Still Matter 09:00 Building a Network & Origination 12:00 The Importance of Being Relevant 13:00 Life After Big Law 14:00 Launching Perkins Coie London 17:00 Building a Startup Culture Inside a Law Firm 18:30 The Legal Business Analyst Programme 21:00 Teaching the Business of Law 24:00 AI, Sales & The Future Lawyer 27:00 Innovation Beyond Harvey & Legora 30:00 Productising Legal Services 33:00 Why NDAs Shouldn't Take Hours 36:00 Client Experience Starts With Talent Experience 38:00 Rethinking Junior Lawyer Training 40:00 Simulators vs Learning on Live Matters 42:00 Gamified Learning & Virtual Training 44:00 AI Avatars & Emotional Intelligence Coaching 47:00 Why Traditional Training Is Changing 48:00 Measuring Talent Instead of Attrition 50:00 Homegrown Lawyers vs Buying Talent 52:00 Building Zero Gravity 54:00 Social Mobility & Legal Careers 55:00 Virtual Internships for Thousands of Students 57:00 The Future of Legal Education
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Catherine Casazza, Senior Legal Counsel at Fidelity International — From Wall Street to the Buy Side
Jun 1701:03:50Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Catherine Casazza shares her remarkable journey from aspiring actor to senior legal counsel at Fidelity International, offering an honest look at life across private practice, international opportunities and the investment management industry.Catherine reflects on growing up in Rhode Island before heading to the University of Southern California, initially pursuing acting before discovering mock trial and later the law. After graduating, she worked as a paralegal at Davis Polk in New York, where she was unexpectedly thrown into the world of derivatives and structured products.The conversation explores her experiences at the SEC, Cahill Gordon & Reindel and Sidley Austin, including relocating to Sydney to practise US capital markets law abroad. Catherine shares what it was really like working in offices overseas, balancing demanding workloads with the opportunity to travel and experience different cultures.Catherine discusses joining Kirkland & Ellis and transitioning from representing banks and financing sources to advising private equity-backed issuers. She reflects candidly on why she decided private practice was no longer the right fit and how she knew it was time to move in-house.A major focus of the episode is her current role at Fidelity International. Catherine provides a fascinating insight into life as buy-side counsel, sitting directly on the trading floor and advising investment teams on debt investments, high-yield bonds and restructurings.The discussion highlights how in-house lawyers often move beyond black-letter law to provide practical, risk-based guidance to internal stakeholders.Catherine also reflects on the cultural differences between private practice and in-house roles, including abandoning the billable hour, adapting to hot-desking and learning to thrive in a collaborative environment where colleagues become both teammates and internal clients.The conversation explores how AI is changing legal practice, with Catherine sharing how she uses Microsoft Copilot and Harvey AI in her day-to-day work. From drafting emails and improving clarity to reviewing lengthy offering memoranda, she explains how these tools are enhancing efficiency while raising important questions about training the next generation of lawyers.Beyond her legal career, Catherine discusses co-founding Muses in the City, a network bringing together women across London's professional community through arts, culture and heritage experiences. She reflects on the importance of finding your tribe, creating leadership opportunities outside the office and building meaningful relationships through shared interests.Finally, Catherine shares thoughtful advice for aspiring lawyers and trainees: stay curious, avoid rigid career plans, embrace opportunities when they arise and approach networking as an extension of friendship rather than a transactional exercise.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Meet Catherine Casazza & Her Route Into Law 01:00 From Acting to Political Science 02:00 Working at Davis Polk as a Paralegal 03:00 Discovering Derivatives & Structured Products 04:00 Studying for the LSAT & Cornell Law School 05:00 The US Route to Qualification Explained 06:00 Summer Associateships & The SEC 08:00 Mock Trial, Acting & Communication Skills 10:00 Early Career Lessons in Authenticity 13:00 Moving to Sydney with Sidley Austin 15:00 Life in a US Satellite Office Abroad 18:00 Returning to New York 19:00 Relocating to London & Joining Kirkland 21:00 Transitioning from Sell Side to Buy Side 22:00 Moving In-House at Fidelity International 23:00 Life as Buy-Side Counsel 24:00 Understanding High-Yield Bonds 26:00 Investor Protections & Covenants Explained 28:00 Trading Floors vs Law Firms 30:00 Building Relationships with Internal Clients 33:00 The Benefits of Going In-House 35:00 Commercial Advice vs Black Letter Law 39:00 Risk Tolerance & Business Judgement 42:00 AI, Copilot & Harvey in Legal Practice 46:00 The Future of Junior Lawyer Training 52:00 Muses in the City & Leadership Outside Work 56:00 Advice for Trainees & Young Lawyers 59:00 Networking as Friendship 01:01:00 Awards, Recognition & Giving Back 01:03:00 What's Next for Catherine?
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Eleanor Wilson, Associate at Mishcon de Reya — On Intellectual Property, Fashion Law and the Future of AI
Jun 1000:47:16Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Eleanor Wilson, associate at Mishcon de Reya specialising in intellectual property litigation, shares her unconventional route into law and explains how an early fascination with copyright and creativity led her into the world of IP litigation.Ellie reflects on discovering intellectual property law while still at school through literature, theatre and music, including negotiating copyright permissions for a youth theatre production and later developing a deep interest in how law protects creative works and innovation.The conversation explores her non-linear career path through academia, policy and legal practice, including working at the Law Commission of England and Wales on intellectual property reform before qualifying as a solicitor.Ellie discusses the importance of staying open-minded early in your career, trying different practice areas and pursuing genuine interests rather than simply following traditional legal career paths.Ellie also shares the unusual story of how helping a family member with a motorcycle-related IP dispute ultimately led to her securing a training contract at a specialist boutique IP firm in Leeds.The conversation explores the differences between working in a small boutique firm, a major US law firm and a UK international firm, including the trade-offs between responsibility, scale of work, culture and work-life balance.The episode also provides a fascinating insight into the breadth of intellectual property law, from fashion and music to food, software, trademarks, patents and confidential information disputes.Ellie discusses some of the major cases she has worked on, including the high-profile trademark dispute between Adidas and fashion designer Thom Browne involving stripe branding and trademark validity.The conversation explores how intellectual property law affects industries people may not immediately associate with IP, including food and drink, luxury brands, retail, technology and pharmaceuticals.Ellie also explains concepts including passing off, geographical indications and trade secrets, while discussing famous examples involving champagne, halloumi, oat milk and even lemon-shaped juice bottles.A major focus of the discussion is AI and legal technology, including the growing disputes surrounding AI training data, copyright ownership and the future regulation of generative AI systems.Ellie shares her perspective on how lawyers are actually using AI tools in practice today, including document comparison, proofreading and research assistance, while warning against over-reliance on AI-generated writing and applications.The episode also explores blockchain technology, NFTs and the potential future role of distributed ledgers in recording ownership and protecting intellectual property rights.Finally, Ellie discusses her pro bono work supporting small businesses and students through legal clinics, reflects on the importance of clear communication in legal advice and shares advice for aspiring lawyers on authenticity, curiosity and finding the right career path.00:00 Introduction 00:20 Meet Eleanor Wilson & Her Route Into IP Law 01:00 Discovering Copyright Through Dickens & Theatre 02:00 Negotiating Copyright Permissions at 17 03:00 Policy, Academia & The Law Commission 04:00 Keeping an Open Mind Early in Your Career 06:00 Working at the Law Commission 07:00 Unjustified Threats & IP Enforcement 09:00 The Motorcycle Dispute That Led to a Training Contract 11:00 Publishing Legal Writing & Building a Profile 14:00 Training at a Boutique IP Firm in Leeds 16:00 Moving to Kirkland & Ellis 17:00 US Law Firm Culture & High Performance Expectations 18:00 Joining Mishcon de Reya 19:00 Major IP Litigation & Confidential Information Cases 20:00 Adidas vs Thom Browne Explained 22:00 Fashion, Branding & Trademark Disputes 23:00 Why Food Law is Full of IP Issues 24:00 Champagne, Halloumi & Oat Milk Disputes 26:00 Patent Litigation & International Enforcement 29:00 AI, Copyright & Training Data Disputes 32:00 Blockchain, NFTs & Ownership Verification 35:00 Evergreening, Patents & Pharmaceutical IP 39:00 AI Tools in Legal Practice 42:00 Pro Bono Work & Supporting Small Businesses 44:00 Giving Clear Advice to Clients 46:00 Final Reflections & What’s Next
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