Podcast Summary

Le Cours de l'histoire – France Culture

Episode: Fou d'histoire : Beata Umubyeyi Mairesse, écrivaine et « folle » d’histoire
Host: Xavier Mauduit
Guest: Beata Umubyeyi Mairesse
Date: 5 septembre 2025

Overview

This episode delves into the intertwined relationship between personal and collective history through the voice and the works of Rwandan-French writer Beata Umubyeyi Mairesse. The central theme is the transmission, lived experience, and narration of history — from the perspective of a survivor, a métisse, and a passionate documenter of memory — focusing on the Rwandan genocide, identity, language, memory, and the healing power of literature.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Multiplicity of History and Memory

Timestamps 00:09–01:55
The episode opens on the theme of June 18th — a date loaded with very different historical resonances: from De Gaulle’s call in 1940 to Waterloo in 1815, to Frédéric Barberousse in 1155, and, most intimately for Beata, a turning point for her family in 1994 during the Rwandan genocide.
Discussion of literature’s many forms as vessels for history: novels, poems, and oral histories in multiple languages — especially Kinyarwanda.

2. Kinyarwanda: Language, Identity, and Heritage

Timestamps 01:55–04:54
Beata recounts her education in a Belgian-curriculum international school in Rwanda, learning French formally, while Kinyarwanda remained her maternal, domestic language passed down from her mother.
Issues of identity as a métisse: “Là-bas je suis considérée comme blanche... mais les gens dans la rue parfois sont surpris en disant mais une blanche qui parle le Kinyarwanda, qu’est-ce que c’est que ça ?” (Beata, 04:35)
Language as a vehicle of belonging, but also of surprise and estrangement: expectations that métis children would not speak Kinyarwanda fluently.

3. Ethnic Categories: Constructed Identities

Timestamps 05:25–09:53
In depth explanation of how Rwandan categories like Hutu, Tutsi, and Toa are largely the result of colonial over-simplifications, masking more complex realities of clan, social class, and local differences.
“Cette hyper simplification [...], c’est une construction coloniale.” (Beata, 06:22)
Reflection on children’s awareness of identity: as a child, Beata was insulated from ethnic labeling due to her context in the city of Butare and an international school, but became increasingly aware following the assassination of her godmother and the outbreak of civil war in 1990.

4. The Political Wakefulness of Childhood

Timestamps 09:53–13:38
Key moments of political awakening: her godmother’s assassination for opposition activity, the attack of the Front Patriotique Rwandais in 1990, and the way identity (Hutu/Tutsi) becomes inescapable as violence arises.
School experiences: Double standards in Rwandan schools where Tutsi children were singled out by teachers, and the colonial roots of ethnic division disseminated via media and the curriculum.

5. Family Memory vs. Official History

Timestamps 14:11–17:57
Beata learned more European history than Rwandan history at school — her first access to “history” was thus entirely disconnected from her lived reality.
“En arrivant en France en juillet 94, je ne connais pratiquement pas l’histoire du Rwanda finalement.” (Beata, 16:04)
Roots of historical understanding: snatches of adult conversation, family stories — especially stories of exile and trauma, only later contextualized by academic research.

6. Literature: A Bridge to History

Timestamps 17:57–22:30
Beata’s personal affinity for learning history through literature over academic textbooks.
Emotional resonance with characters (ex: Zola’s “Germinal”) provides a deeper sense of understanding versus the factual approach of history classes.

7. The Genesis and Importance of "Le Convoi"

Timestamps 22:30–25:15
Her book “Le Convoi” emerges from a personal investigation (over 15 years) to find a lost photograph from June 18, 1994 — a fleeting record of her escape from Rwanda with a humanitarian convoy.
The process became both literary and investigative: “La réalité dépassait toute fiction qu’on pouvait imaginer.” (Beata, 22:55)

8. Tying Personal and Universal Stories of Survival

Timestamps 25:15–27:44
She links her own experience to other genocides: Shoah, Armenian genocide, Cambodia. Seeks to overcome the “competition” of memory, emphasizing universal survivor solidarity.

9. Writing as Duty and Consolation

Timestamps 26:34–29:52
Aspires to transform trauma into history rather than legend: “Il faut qu’il soit porté au langage, qu’il entre comme un fait d’histoire, un fait de culture.” (Beata, quoting Charlotte Delbo, 26:40)
The importance of slow processing ("le temps long") in survivor testimony: “À l’échelle d’une vie... c’est important... J’ai commencé par la fiction pour rendre entendable cette histoire.” (Beata, 27:57)

10. Methods of Inquiry: Research, Testimony, Archives

Timestamps 29:52–33:23
Describes research as a non-academic, sometimes difficult process: “Parfois, il a fallu être insistante, défoncer des portes et persévérer.” (Beata, 30:55)
Collaboration with historians such as Hélène Dumas and the reliance on both oral memory and academic sources for her writings.

11. Conceptualizing Time: "Ejo"

Timestamps 33:23–35:05
Explains the multifaceted meaning of “ejo” (“yesterday” and “tomorrow”) in Kinyarwanda and its significance for thinking about history and future, “ça dit quelque chose du rapport à la temporalité, à l’histoire qui est dans la culture déjà.” (Beata, 34:36)

12. The Search for Archives and Community Memory

Timestamps 35:05–36:59
The search for a photograph acts as a metaphor for the search for historical truth; the literary work brings connections with other survivors and newfound images and testimony.

13. The Everyday Rwanda: Life Beyond Genocide

Timestamps 37:25–44:22
Musical-poetic interlude by Gaël Faye ("Boutaré"), celebrating the quotidian beauty of Beata’s hometown, emphasizing Rwandan life, family, nature, and memory.
Discussion on the importance of preserving and celebrating the “soft, beautiful life” of pre-genocide Rwanda—even through the symbolism of trees (“jacarandas”, “oumouko”) and the environment.
“Il reste parfois un arbre pour raconter le passé.” (Beata, 44:20)

14. Humanitarianism and Survival as Identity

Timestamps 44:22–49:09
Tribute to the few humanitarian organizations (notably Terre des Hommes, MSF, CICR) present during the genocide.
Reflections on the identity of survivors: “Survivante, ce n’est pas la seule, on n’a jamais une seule identité. Mais en tout cas, pour moi, elle est déterminante.” (Beata, 49:12)

15. The Role of Literature: Disturbing the Comfortable, Comforting the Disturbed

Timestamps 51:11–53:10
Citing Zadie Smith: “La bonne littérature est faite pour réconforter les gens dérangés et déranger les gens confortables.” (Beata, 51:24)
The goal of her writing is to inform the indifferent and comfort the traumatized, to break the silence around personal and collective suffering.
Final remarks on “consoler” — to console is among humanity's greatest gestures.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Language and Identity:
“Il n’y a qu’à l’école finalement que je parle le français. [...] Mais au quotidien, à la maison, au marché, dans la rue, je parle le Kinyarwanda... une blanche qui parle le Kinyarwanda, qu’est-ce que c’est que ça ?” (Beata, 04:35)
On Colonial Construction of Identity:
“Cette hyper simplification ... est une construction coloniale.” (Beata, 06:22)
On Silence and Trauma in Family History:
“Ce qu’on reçoit, c’est d’abord des histoires d’exil, de séparation qui créent une sorte de traumatisme finalement sur le long terme.” (Beata, 17:57)
On Processing and Writing Trauma:
“La réalité dépassait toute fiction qu’on pouvait imaginer.” (Beata, 22:55)
On the Purpose of Testimony:
“Il faut qu’il soit porté au langage, qu’il entre comme un fait d’histoire, un fait de culture.” (citing Charlotte Delbo, 26:40)
On the Power and Duty of Literature:
“La bonne littérature est faite pour réconforter les gens dérangés et déranger les gens confortables.” (Beata, 51:24, quoting Zadie Smith via David Foster Wallace)
On Trees as Memory:
“Il reste parfois un arbre pour raconter le passé.” (Beata, 44:20)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:09 | Introduction: Importance of June 18 in multiple histories | | 01:55 | Beata's early schooling and role of Kinyarwanda | | 05:25 | Colonial roots of Hutu/Tutsi/Toa distinctions | | 09:53 | Childhood political awakening, godmother’s assassination | | 09:55 | School segregation and media indoctrination in Rwanda | | 14:11 | Family stories vs. official European-centric history | | 17:57 | Family trauma and the limitations of history education | | 22:30 | Writing “Le Convoi” and the role of personal testimony | | 25:15 | Disability of genocide in global historical context | | 26:34 | On writing and “the duty to bear witness” | | 33:23 | "Ejo" - word for "yesterday" and "tomorrow" | | 37:25 | Gaël Faye performs "Boutaré" (poetry/memory/music) | | 44:22 | Symbolism of trees in Rwandan memory and literature | | 46:17 | Tribute to humanitarian orgs; survivor as identity | | 51:11 | Zadie Smith quote: literature’s dual purpose | | 52:02 | “Consoler” and the literature’s ability to heal |

Concluding Tone

Throughout, the discussion is intimate, vivid, and nuanced, often incorporating poetic language and direct references to lived experience. Beata’s voice is one of gentle but uncompromising clarity, balancing gratitude, mourning, and a commitment to truth-telling — not only for herself but for community, memory, and humanity at large.

Podcast Summary

Le Cours de l'histoire – France Culture

Episode: Fou d'histoire : Beata Umubyeyi Mairesse, écrivaine et « folle » d’histoire
Host: Xavier Mauduit
Guest: Beata Umubyeyi Mairesse
Date: 5 septembre 2025

Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Multiplicity of History and Memory

Timestamps 00:09–01:55
The episode opens on the theme of June 18th — a date loaded with very different historical resonances: from De Gaulle’s call in 1940 to Waterloo in 1815, to Frédéric Barberousse in 1155, and, most intimately for Beata, a turning point for her family in 1994 during the Rwandan genocide.
Discussion of literature’s many forms as vessels for history: novels, poems, and oral histories in multiple languages — especially Kinyarwanda.

2. Kinyarwanda: Language, Identity, and Heritage

Timestamps 01:55–04:54
Beata recounts her education in a Belgian-curriculum international school in Rwanda, learning French formally, while Kinyarwanda remained her maternal, domestic language passed down from her mother.
Issues of identity as a métisse: “Là-bas je suis considérée comme blanche... mais les gens dans la rue parfois sont surpris en disant mais une blanche qui parle le Kinyarwanda, qu’est-ce que c’est que ça ?” (Beata, 04:35)
Language as a vehicle of belonging, but also of surprise and estrangement: expectations that métis children would not speak Kinyarwanda fluently.

3. Ethnic Categories: Constructed Identities

Timestamps 05:25–09:53
In depth explanation of how Rwandan categories like Hutu, Tutsi, and Toa are largely the result of colonial over-simplifications, masking more complex realities of clan, social class, and local differences.
“Cette hyper simplification [...], c’est une construction coloniale.” (Beata, 06:22)
Reflection on children’s awareness of identity: as a child, Beata was insulated from ethnic labeling due to her context in the city of Butare and an international school, but became increasingly aware following the assassination of her godmother and the outbreak of civil war in 1990.

4. The Political Wakefulness of Childhood

Timestamps 09:53–13:38
Key moments of political awakening: her godmother’s assassination for opposition activity, the attack of the Front Patriotique Rwandais in 1990, and the way identity (Hutu/Tutsi) becomes inescapable as violence arises.
School experiences: Double standards in Rwandan schools where Tutsi children were singled out by teachers, and the colonial roots of ethnic division disseminated via media and the curriculum.

5. Family Memory vs. Official History

Timestamps 14:11–17:57
Beata learned more European history than Rwandan history at school — her first access to “history” was thus entirely disconnected from her lived reality.
“En arrivant en France en juillet 94, je ne connais pratiquement pas l’histoire du Rwanda finalement.” (Beata, 16:04)
Roots of historical understanding: snatches of adult conversation, family stories — especially stories of exile and trauma, only later contextualized by academic research.

6. Literature: A Bridge to History

Timestamps 17:57–22:30
Beata’s personal affinity for learning history through literature over academic textbooks.
Emotional resonance with characters (ex: Zola’s “Germinal”) provides a deeper sense of understanding versus the factual approach of history classes.

7. The Genesis and Importance of "Le Convoi"

Timestamps 22:30–25:15
Her book “Le Convoi” emerges from a personal investigation (over 15 years) to find a lost photograph from June 18, 1994 — a fleeting record of her escape from Rwanda with a humanitarian convoy.
The process became both literary and investigative: “La réalité dépassait toute fiction qu’on pouvait imaginer.” (Beata, 22:55)

8. Tying Personal and Universal Stories of Survival

Timestamps 25:15–27:44
She links her own experience to other genocides: Shoah, Armenian genocide, Cambodia. Seeks to overcome the “competition” of memory, emphasizing universal survivor solidarity.

9. Writing as Duty and Consolation

Timestamps 26:34–29:52
Aspires to transform trauma into history rather than legend: “Il faut qu’il soit porté au langage, qu’il entre comme un fait d’histoire, un fait de culture.” (Beata, quoting Charlotte Delbo, 26:40)
The importance of slow processing ("le temps long") in survivor testimony: “À l’échelle d’une vie... c’est important... J’ai commencé par la fiction pour rendre entendable cette histoire.” (Beata, 27:57)

10. Methods of Inquiry: Research, Testimony, Archives

Timestamps 29:52–33:23
Describes research as a non-academic, sometimes difficult process: “Parfois, il a fallu être insistante, défoncer des portes et persévérer.” (Beata, 30:55)
Collaboration with historians such as Hélène Dumas and the reliance on both oral memory and academic sources for her writings.

11. Conceptualizing Time: "Ejo"

Timestamps 33:23–35:05
Explains the multifaceted meaning of “ejo” (“yesterday” and “tomorrow”) in Kinyarwanda and its significance for thinking about history and future, “ça dit quelque chose du rapport à la temporalité, à l’histoire qui est dans la culture déjà.” (Beata, 34:36)

12. The Search for Archives and Community Memory

Timestamps 35:05–36:59
The search for a photograph acts as a metaphor for the search for historical truth; the literary work brings connections with other survivors and newfound images and testimony.

13. The Everyday Rwanda: Life Beyond Genocide

Timestamps 37:25–44:22
Musical-poetic interlude by Gaël Faye ("Boutaré"), celebrating the quotidian beauty of Beata’s hometown, emphasizing Rwandan life, family, nature, and memory.
Discussion on the importance of preserving and celebrating the “soft, beautiful life” of pre-genocide Rwanda—even through the symbolism of trees (“jacarandas”, “oumouko”) and the environment.
“Il reste parfois un arbre pour raconter le passé.” (Beata, 44:20)

14. Humanitarianism and Survival as Identity

Timestamps 44:22–49:09
Tribute to the few humanitarian organizations (notably Terre des Hommes, MSF, CICR) present during the genocide.
Reflections on the identity of survivors: “Survivante, ce n’est pas la seule, on n’a jamais une seule identité. Mais en tout cas, pour moi, elle est déterminante.” (Beata, 49:12)

15. The Role of Literature: Disturbing the Comfortable, Comforting the Disturbed

Timestamps 51:11–53:10
Citing Zadie Smith: “La bonne littérature est faite pour réconforter les gens dérangés et déranger les gens confortables.” (Beata, 51:24)
The goal of her writing is to inform the indifferent and comfort the traumatized, to break the silence around personal and collective suffering.
Final remarks on “consoler” — to console is among humanity's greatest gestures.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Language and Identity:
“Il n’y a qu’à l’école finalement que je parle le français. [...] Mais au quotidien, à la maison, au marché, dans la rue, je parle le Kinyarwanda... une blanche qui parle le Kinyarwanda, qu’est-ce que c’est que ça ?” (Beata, 04:35)
On Colonial Construction of Identity:
“Cette hyper simplification ... est une construction coloniale.” (Beata, 06:22)
On Silence and Trauma in Family History:
“Ce qu’on reçoit, c’est d’abord des histoires d’exil, de séparation qui créent une sorte de traumatisme finalement sur le long terme.” (Beata, 17:57)
On Processing and Writing Trauma:
“La réalité dépassait toute fiction qu’on pouvait imaginer.” (Beata, 22:55)
On the Purpose of Testimony:
“Il faut qu’il soit porté au langage, qu’il entre comme un fait d’histoire, un fait de culture.” (citing Charlotte Delbo, 26:40)
On the Power and Duty of Literature:
“La bonne littérature est faite pour réconforter les gens dérangés et déranger les gens confortables.” (Beata, 51:24, quoting Zadie Smith via David Foster Wallace)
On Trees as Memory:
“Il reste parfois un arbre pour raconter le passé.” (Beata, 44:20)

Fou d'histoire : Beata Umubyeyi Mairesse, écrivaine et "folle" d’histoire

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Summary

Podcast Summary

Le Cours de l'histoire – France Culture

Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Multiplicity of History and Memory

2. Kinyarwanda: Language, Identity, and Heritage

3. Ethnic Categories: Constructed Identities

4. The Political Wakefulness of Childhood

5. Family Memory vs. Official History

6. Literature: A Bridge to History

7. The Genesis and Importance of "Le Convoi"

8. Tying Personal and Universal Stories of Survival

9. Writing as Duty and Consolation

10. Methods of Inquiry: Research, Testimony, Archives

11. Conceptualizing Time: "Ejo"

12. The Search for Archives and Community Memory

13. The Everyday Rwanda: Life Beyond Genocide

14. Humanitarianism and Survival as Identity

15. The Role of Literature: Disturbing the Comfortable, Comforting the Disturbed

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Important Timestamps

Concluding Tone

Further Reading by Beata Umubyeyi Mairesse

Summary

Podcast Summary

Le Cours de l'histoire – France Culture

Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Multiplicity of History and Memory

2. Kinyarwanda: Language, Identity, and Heritage

3. Ethnic Categories: Constructed Identities

4. The Political Wakefulness of Childhood

5. Family Memory vs. Official History

6. Literature: A Bridge to History

7. The Genesis and Importance of "Le Convoi"

8. Tying Personal and Universal Stories of Survival

9. Writing as Duty and Consolation

10. Methods of Inquiry: Research, Testimony, Archives

11. Conceptualizing Time: "Ejo"

12. The Search for Archives and Community Memory

13. The Everyday Rwanda: Life Beyond Genocide

14. Humanitarianism and Survival as Identity

15. The Role of Literature: Disturbing the Comfortable, Comforting the Disturbed

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Important Timestamps

Concluding Tone

Further Reading by Beata Umubyeyi Mairesse