Podcast Summary

Le Cours de l'histoire
Episode: "Paix, une histoire pas si paisible : On fait la paix ? De la SDN à l'ONU"
Date: 8 janvier 2026
Host: Xavier Mauduit
Guests: Guillaume Devin (Professeur émérite de Sciences Po) & Chloé Morel (Docteur en histoire, chercheuse associée à la Sorbonne)

Overview of the Episode’s Theme

This episode explores the complex history of peace as an international institution, focusing on the evolution from the League of Nations (SDN) after World War I to the United Nations (ONU) following World War II. The discussion analyzes successes and failures of both organizations, how “peace” was institutionalized, and the shifting roles of global powers—particularly the United States—and newly independent countries. It sheds light on the role of international organizations in peacekeeping, the impact of colonial legacies, mechanisms like the veto, and current limits facing the UN.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origins of International Peace Institutions

• Early International Cooperation:

  • The idea of international unions is not new. The late 19th century, marked by what Susan Berger calls “the first globalization,” saw an increase in communications, transport, and the formation of unions for issues like telegraphy, postal services, meteorology, and public health.
    • Guillaume Devin [02:00]:

      “La période cruciale, c'est la deuxième moitié du XIXe siècle... les premières unions administratives... inspirées par un nouveau paradigme, celui de l’interdépendance.”

• SDN as a New Kind of Organization:

  • The League of Nations, created after WWI, represents the first attempt at a universal political organization aiming for collective security (Article 16).
    • Guillaume Devin [04:38]:

      “La SDN est une organisation à compétences générales, à vocation politique et universelle.”

2. Structural Weaknesses and Failures of the SDN

• Lack of Key Membership and Power:

  • Absence of major players like the US (Sénat américain n’a pas ratifié le traité), no independent armed force, slow procedures, and nations withdrawing (Germany, Japan, Italy in the 1930s) weakened the SDN.
    • Chloé Morel [03:31]:

      “Elle se révèle faible, parce que tout d'abord, il y a l'absence des États-Unis... elle n'a pas de force armée propre... il y a des pays qui s'en sont retirés...”

• SDN’s Contributions:

  • Important legacies: the advent of international civil service, emergence of “experts,” technical cooperation, and international solidarity, including the creation of the International Labour Organization (ILO) and the precursor to UNESCO.
    • Guillaume Devin [06:38]:

      “La Société des Nations a accompagné un énorme phénomène de solidarité... a impulsé des nouveautés dans la coopération internationale.”

3. From SDN to the UN: Hopes and Contrasts

• Between the Wars: The Climate for Pacifism

  • After WWI, pacifism surged—the push to outlaw war (Pacte Briand-Kellogg, 1928), “la der des ders,” and creation of institutions for social and intellectual cooperation.
    • Chloé Morel [07:43]:

      “Le contexte de l'entre-deux-guerres, c'est un contexte où le pacifisme est très fort... l'ancêtre de l'UNESCO...”

• SDN’s Limitation: “Peace as a Lasting State”

  • New concept: Peace as an enduring condition, not just a truce between wars.
    • Xavier Mauduit [08:49]:

      “Ce n’est pas juste un moment qui met fin à la guerre, désormais la paix c’est un état qui doit durer...”

4. The UN: Innovations and New Obstacles

• UN’s Structure and Early Years:

  • The UN was designed to correct SDN's failures: The Security Council (“plus de dents” - “more teeth”), right of veto for five major powers, and the establishment of a permanent directorial body.

    • Guillaume Devin [29:18]:

      “Roosevelt disait... ‘Je veux une SDN plus teeth’, plus des dents. Et les dents, c'est le conseil de sécurité.”

  • The UN Charter provides for the absolute prohibition of force, except in self-defense or Security Council authorization.

    • Guillaume Devin [37:18]:

      “La Charte des Nations Unies est beaucoup plus ferme. Interdiction absolue du recours à la force...”

• Persisting Challenges:

  • The collective security system is hindered, especially during the Cold War, by the use of vetoes (mostly by the US and Russia) and inability to act during major crises.
    • Chloé Morel [39:21]:

      “La guerre froide va paralyser un peu l'ONU dans son action...”

5. The Veto and Democracy Deficit

• The Veto as a Core Problem:
  • The veto system, a privilege of WWII victors, is described as profoundly undemocratic and a target of current reform efforts. Over 130 countries support initiatives to limit vetoes in cases of mass atrocities.
    • Chloé Morel [45:13]:

      “Le veto, c'est quand même un mécanisme qui n'est pas démocratique... Il y a beaucoup de pays qui le font remarquer aujourd'hui.”

6. Decolonization and the Role of the Global South

• The UN as a Tribunal for the South:

  • 1960: 17 new African states join—reshaping the General Assembly and the UN’s power dynamics. The US (and West) became increasingly critical as they lost influence.

    • Guillaume Devin [48:20]:

      “L'arrivée des pays nouvellement décolonisés... universalise le multilatéralisme onusien... met en difficulté un certain nombre de puissances occidentales.”

  • The UN as a stage for anti-colonial leaders, e.g., Lumumba, Castro, Che Guevara.

    • Chloé Morel [51:22]:

      “L’Assemblée Générale de l’ONU est vraiment une enceinte... une tribune pour des leaders du Tiers-Monde...”

7. Peacekeeping Operations (Les Casques Bleus)

• Track Record: Mixed Results

  • Successes: Cambodia, Mozambique, Timor—enabled ceasefires and free elections (early 1990s).
  • Failures: Rwanda, Srebrenica, and current crises (RDC, Gaza, Ukraine).
  • The number of active missions has dropped dramatically due to Security Council paralysis.
    • Chloé Morel [54:26]:

      “Le bilan est mitigé... il y a eu des succès... mais aussi des échecs graves...”

• Evolution of Mandate:

  • From peacekeeping (impartial, non-forceful) to enforcement (potentially using force), especially as Council unity fractured.

8. Reform Challenges and Future Prospects

• Difficulty to Reform:

  • UN Charter requires consent of all permanent members for reforms; extremely difficult to enact change.
    • Guillaume Devin [56:13]:

      “La révision de la Charte des Nations Unies implique l'accord des cinq membres permanents... il y a un verrou énorme pour la transformation...”

• Importance of Norms and UN’s Non-Military Impact:

  • Despite failures, the UN’s normative influence (human rights, treaties, law), and its social and economic programs, are significant.
    • Guillaume Devin [57:25]:

      “Ce qui existe apporte... des solutions partielles, mais non négligeables sur le terrain économique et social...”

• Budget Constraints:

  • The UN’s peacekeeping budget is minuscule compared to global military spending.
    • Xavier Mauduit [57:40]:

      “Le budget des OMP, c’est seulement 0,5% des dépenses militaires mondiales.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Aragon’s Poetic Opening on Peace
  Louis Aragon (poem) [00:34]:

  “La paix... C’est la paix qui force le crime à s’agenouiller dans l’aveu, et qui crie avec les victimes, cessez.”

• SDN as a “Creuset” (Crucible) of Ideas
  Chloé Morel [07:43]:

  “La SDN, c’est un peu le creuset, le laboratoire qui a ensuite donné l’ONU…”

• On the Idealism of Institutionalized Peace
  Léon Blum (speech) [16:26]:

  “N’oubliez pas cependant qu’à cette chimère, la vie universelle est suspendue.”

  Guillaume Devin (on hope) [17:56]:

  “Je le crois parce que je l’espère. Et je crois que dans toute œuvre collective, si l’on n’y croit pas, la dynamique est brisée.”

• Limits of Sovereignty and Peace
  Guillaume Devin [44:59]:

  “Pour la création d'un système international, il n'y a qu'un seul chemin, c'est que les États abandonnent une partie de leur liberté d'action.”

• UN System and Colonial Legacies
  Guillaume Devin [22:28]:

  “La question des mandats permet finalement aux puissances coloniales de continuer à faire leurs affaires... C'est une façon de poursuivre la colonisation par d'autres moyens.”

• On Veto Power and Democracy
  Chloé Morel [45:13]:

  “Le veto... ce privilège exorbitant, ce n’est pas démocratique.”

• Hope and Disenchantment with Peacekeeping
  Chloé Morel [55:46]:

  “Le bilan est très mitigé... l’ONU n’a pas pu empêcher le génocide au Rwanda...”

• On Difficulty of Reforming Peace Institutions
  Guillaume Devin [56:13]:

  “Ces institutions-là… ne sont pas amendables au sens où une fois qu’elles sont créées c’est bien difficile de les changer.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:09–02:00: Contextualizing the origins of peace institutions; intro to SDN’s emergence
• 02:00–04:38: 19th-century international unions and interdependence
• 04:38–07:43: SDN as a pioneering political institution, its innovations, and failings
• 07:43–09:22: Interwar period, pacifism, creation of ILO & the precursor to UNESCO
• 09:22–13:07: SDN’s ambition for lasting peace and “l’esprit de Genève”
• 14:01–16:05: Comparison of SDN and UN; explanation of collective security failures
• 16:26–18:20: Léon Blum’s speech on the idealism (chimère) of institutionalized peace
• 19:15–22:28: Arbitration, “peace by law,” and the mandate system’s colonial ambiguities
• 24:49–25:12: Geneva and the failure of SDN, pre-WWII perception
• 28:09–31:30: Transition to the UN, inclusion of the Security Council, figures like Roosevelt
• 33:42–34:23: The US’s ambivalent role in the UN system and Bretton Woods institutions
• 48:20–51:22: Decolonization: arrival of new states and impact on Assembly politics
• 52:44–55:46: UN peacekeeping operations: successes, failures, and current challenges
• 56:13–58:14: Challenges of UN reform, summing up the historical and normative impact
• 58:16–end: Closing reflections on the persistence of war and peace as fragile ideals

Conclusion: The Ambivalence of Institutional Peace

This episode highlights that institutionalizing peace through international organizations is an ongoing and incomplete project—marked by foundational optimism and real-world constraints. Both the SDN and UN have innovated in structuring international cooperation, but ultimate effectiveness remains hampered by issues of power, sovereignty, and the lack of enforceability. The hope for peace persists, but is always “suspendue à une chimère” (hanging by a thread of visionary idealism)—reinforced and haunted by the hard lessons of the past.

Recommended for anyone seeking to understand the complex, often paradoxical relationship between states, international organizations, and the elusive pursuit of peace in the modern world.