Podcast Summary:

Le Cours de l'histoire – “Séduire les foules, une histoire de rhétorique 2/4 : Par la parole et par la foi, Savonarole enflamme Florence”
France Culture, Hosted by Xavier Mauduit, Guest: Jean-Louis Fournel
Date: December 13, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the extraordinary power of speech and faith in late 15th-century Florence, through the figure of the fiery Dominican preacher Jérôme Savonarole. Xavier Mauduit and historian Jean-Louis Fournel examine how Savonarole's oratory, his use of religious conviction, and his political context made him a figure capable of captivating and dividing the city. The discussion unpacks how rhetoric shaped historical events and collective experiences, highlighting the enduring tension between faith, political power, and public persuasion.

1. Setting the Scene: Florence and Two Names That Resonate

• Savonarole and Machiavelli: The show opens by threading the lives of the prophet Savonarole and the realist political thinker Machiavelli.
  • “Savonarole, c’est un décalage intéressant: la carrière politique de Machiavel commence quelques semaines après la mort de Savonarole… probalement parce qu’il fait partie de ceux qui étaient considérés comme des critiques de Savonarole.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 03:14)
• Florentine Context: Florence of the late 15th century—ruled by the Medici family—was a city of wealth, artistic flowering, but also political instability and external threats.

Notable quote:

“Le peuple de Florence… croyait que Savonarole parlait avec Dieu… innombrables étaient ceux qui le croyaient, sans avoir vu rien d’extraordinaire.”
— Daniel Königsberg, reading Machiavel, 00:36

Timestamp highlights:

• 00:14–01:28 – Introduction of historical context, Savonarole and Machiavelli.
• 03:14 – Temporal overlap and influence.

2. The Rise of Savonarole: Religion, Education, and the Power of the Dominican Order

• Savonarole’s Path: Born in Ferrara, Savonarole diverged from a family tradition of medicine to pursue a religious calling, joining the Dominicans—preachers known for austerity, theological rigor, and city-based evangelism.
• Dominican Complexity: The order itself was split between reformers and non-reformers, leading to fierce internal tensions within Florence.
• Emphasis on Speech: Essential to the Dominicans, speech was considered an "arme"—a tool for influencing society.
  • “La parole y est essentielle… ils sont itinérants… leurs couvents sont au sein des villes.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 05:39)

Memorable moment:
A lighthearted medieval song about St. Dominic punctuates the segment, illustrating the contrast between Dominic’s gentle image and Savonarole’s severity (06:33–07:33).

3. Savonarole Comes to Florence

• Arrival and Early Years: Savonarole’s initial foray into Florence was modest. He later gained recognition for his teaching and oratorical abilities at the Dominican convent of San Marco.
• Florence in 1490s: A wealthy city controlled by the Medici, but susceptible to political shocks and relying on mercenaries for defense.
• Political Change: Upon Lorenzo de Medici’s death (1492), the city’s stability faltered under his son Pierre, offering Savonarole a larger stage and higher stakes for his prophetic warnings.

Notable quote:

“Il y a ce fameux sermon… où il dit que bientôt le glaive de Dieu va s’abattre sur la cité, vite, très vite.”
— Jean-Louis Fournel, 16:41

Timestamps:

• 11:05–14:35 – Florence’s political and religious landscape.
• 16:08–18:55 – The impact of Lorenzo’s death and the coming crisis.

4. Apocalyptic Rhetoric—Prophecy Meets Politics

• A sense of doom: Savonarole’s warnings of divine punishment and the theme of apocalypse resonated in fin-de-siècle Italy, amplifying public fears and creating fertile ground for his charisma.
• Distinctiveness: His effectiveness stemmed from a mix of rigorous theology, a capacity to connect simple language with elevated doctrine, and a knack for stirring collective emotion.

Notable quote:

“Il essaye de revenir aux écritures pour toucher, non pas les oreilles, mais le cœur.”
— Jean-Louis Fournel, 20:17

Timestamps:

• 18:37–21:03 – Apocalyptic themes and social anxieties.

5. Savonarole and Political Upheaval: Florence’s Grand Council

• The French Invasion and Fall of the Medici (1494): Charles VIII’s rapid military advances toppled the Medici, leading to a power vacuum.

  • Public panic was palpable: “Les gens avaient leurs cheveux qui se dressaient sur la tête.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 26:33)

• Republican Reform: In December 1494, the Grand Council was established—an unprecedented experiment in broad-based republican government (>3,000 citizens)—with Savonarole as spiritual influencer but not direct ruler.

  • “La souveraineté est dans ce peuple qu’il va falloir convaincre de suivre le verbe… et qui va se diviser.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 26:33)

• Tension: No outright theocracy, but a mix of religious fervor and pragmatic politics.

  • “On n’a pas stricto sensu un gouvernement théocratique… La place du Christ comme roi est surtout symbolique.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 30:18)

Timestamps:

• 23:17–29:34 – French invasion, expulsion of the Medici, founding of the Grand Council.
• 29:34–31:56 – The Republic, political divisions, and Savonarole's influence.

6. The Nature of Savonarole’s Oratory: Form, Influence, and Opposition

• Innovative Sermons: Savonarole’s speeches adopted a dialogic style, directly engaging supporters and critics.

  • “Dans ce sermon sur les Bagatelles, on a l’illustration du dialogue… instauré entre le peuple de Florence et Savonarole.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 33:03)

• Rhetorical Strategies: He breached the formality of classical sermons—using humor, staging, physical props, and emotional appeals, transforming sermons into a political tool and communal experience.

  • “Il doit jouer sur les sens… il doit mettre en mouvement son public pour le convaincre.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 36:18)

• Censorship and Hunger for Speech: Political authorities often sought to silence him, but Florentines lamented the loss of his "spiritual nourishment."

Notable Sermon (Bagatelles, 24 June 1496, 32:53):

“Tu sais bien que le rire avilie les choses. Je te l’aurais lu avec gravité, en sorte que tu n’y aurais pas vu des bagatelles.”

Timestamps:

• 32:53–39:31 – Sermon technique, dialogic approach, and performative elements.
• 40:06–42:24 – The question of written sources and the recording of sermons.

7. From Speech to Action: The Bonfires of the Vanities

• Myth & Reality: Although histories often conflate Savonarole with the infamous “bûchers de vanité,” only two such events (Carnival 1497 and 1498) took place, building on earlier traditions.

• Children’s Role: The “Enfants de Saint-Marc” acted as enforcers, collecting vanities (jewels, artworks, books) for destruction—a theatrical show of moral reform.

  • “C’est une intensité supérieure d’une pratique connue… ce sont des moments symboliques.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 46:04)

• Lasting Image: These events, though limited in extent, have fueled centuries of powerful cultural memory and mythmaking.

Timestamps:

• 42:27–46:45 – The bonfires described and contextualized.

8. Opposition and the Fall: Savonarole’s Endgame

• Opposition Mounts: The alliance of economic, familial, and generational interests created growing resistance.

  • “Les marchands… ne veulent pas que Florence soit punie par le pape… des questions qui sont des questions de famille… Les jeunes n’ont aucune envie de cette réforme des mœurs.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 48:08)

• Épreuve du Feu (Trial by Fire, 1498): A failed ordeal meant to demonstrate divine favor ended in anticlimax, damaging Savonarole's legitimacy.

  • “L’épreuve du feu n’a pas lieu… il se met à pleuvoir, donc tout le monde rentre chez soi.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 51:45)

• Arrest, Torture, and Execution: Accused of heresy and schism, Savonarole endured a harrowing trial, torture, and ultimately execution.

  • “Je l’ai renié par peur des tourments. Ce que j’ai dit, je l’ai reçu de Dieu, mon Dieu.” (Lecture d’une pièce du procès, 52:48)

Timestamps:

• 47:42–51:45 – Resistance, the failed trial by fire, and the beginning of the end.
• 52:48–55:27 – The trial, torture and final moments.

9. Legacy: The Erosion of Power and Enduring Influence

• Lasting Impact: While Savonarole’s political impact waned after his death and Florence’s further turmoil, his influence—rhetorical, spiritual, and political—persisted for decades, resurfacing even in later revolutions and spiritual movements.
  • “La parole politique du frère est encore présente pendant 40 ans… Après, ce seront les spirituels qui vont reprendre Savonaroli.” (Jean-Louis Fournel, 57:04)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “Le peuple de Florence croyait que Savonarole parlait avec Dieu… innombrables étaient ceux qui le croyaient, sans avoir vu rien d’extraordinaire…”
  — Daniel Königsberg, 00:36
• “La différence entre Moïse et Savonarole… Moïse était un prophète armé, c’est pour ça qu’il a réussi, Savonarole un prophète désarmé, c’est pour ça qu’il a échoué. Mais il avait comme arme la parole…”
  — Jean-Louis Fournel, 02:19
• “Laurent meurt en 1492… il y a ce sermon… où il dit que le glaive de Dieu va s’abattre sur la cité…”
  — Jean-Louis Fournel, 16:41
• “Il essaye de revenir aux écritures pour toucher, non pas les oreilles, mais le cœur.”
  — Jean-Louis Fournel, 20:17
• “Le rire avilie les choses… Je te l’aurais lu avec gravité…”
  — Savonarole (lu par Daniel Königsberg), 32:53
• “La parole politique du frère est encore présente pendant 40 ans… Après, ce seront les spirituels qui vont reprendre Savonaroli.”
  — Jean-Louis Fournel, 57:04

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:14–03:14 – Introduction and connection Savonarole/Machiavelli
• 05:09–08:58 – Savonarole’s background, Dominicans, and rivals
• 11:05–14:35 – Power structures in Florence
• 16:08–18:55 – The death of Lorenzo, Savonarole’s shift
• 23:17–31:56 – The French invasion, Grand Council, and republican experiments
• 33:03–39:31 – Sermons as dialogue, political tool
• 42:27–46:45 – “Bonfires of the Vanities” explained
• 47:42–51:45 – Opposition, failure of trial by fire, downfall
• 52:48–55:27 – Arrest, torture, final confession
• 56:10–57:39 – Legacy, decline, and transformation of Savonarole’s rhetoric

Tone and Language

The speakers’ tone balances scholarly rigor, narrative vividness, and, at times, wry humor (notably when discussing the “Dominique, nique, nique” song or the mythologizing of history). Mauduit’s and Fournel’s language is informed, accessible, and reflective, always connecting events to the broader question: how can words ignite, sustain, and ultimately consume political and social movements?

Conclusion

This episode powerfully illustrates how the gift of oratory can transform both individual destinies and historical trajectories. Savonarole’s ability to “enflamme” Florence—by faith and word, not by arms—left a legacy both inspiring and cautionary, forever linking him to the seductive and perilous force of rhetoric.