Podcast Summary

Podcast: Le Cours de l'Histoire (France Culture)
Episode: Traces d’histoire dans la ville 2/4 : Graffitis, marquer les murs, marquer l’histoire
Date: October 4, 2025
Host: Xavier Mauduit
Guest: Charlotte Guichard, historienne de l’art, directrice de recherche au CNRS
Main Theme:
Exploring how historical graffiti on monuments—especially in Rome—reveal both the evolving relationship between artists and artworks, and our changing attitudes toward heritage, presence, and the passage of time.

Episode Overview

This episode journeys into the world of historical graffiti in Rome from the 16th to 19th centuries, reframing what might seem like vandalism as rich, layered evidence of artists’ encounters with masterpieces. Host Xavier Mauduit and art historian Charlotte Guichard discuss how names scratched into marble or scrawled onto the walls of the Vatican and Roman ruins are not just defacements but powerful acts of admiration, legacy, and corporeal engagement with art. Guichard draws on her research and book Graffiti, inscrire son nom à Rome (XVIᵉ–XIXe siècle) to unpack the cultural practices, material realities, and evolving perceptions of graffiti.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Graffiti as Art Historical Testimony (00:27–04:40)

• Artistic Pilgrimage and Graffiti: Artists such as Poussin, David, Carpeaux, and Piranesi left more than just impressions—they inscribed their passage during the Grand Tour. Their names remain as "tattoos" on the art they admired.
  • Guichard's Approach: Inspired by an article on Poussin's graffiti, Guichard spent a year in Rome seeking out these inscriptions, seeing them as a parallel, physical record of art history.
• Materiality and Temporality: Focusing on the physical traces left on walls reveals a palimpsest of admiration and historical experience, beyond the usual "smooth" and purely aesthetic appreciation of art.
  • “Ces murs sont de véritables palimpsestes, sur lesquels on peut lire le passage, les outrages du temps, mais aussi des formes de l'admiration au cours des siècles.” – Guichard, [03:50]

2. The Act of Signing and Its Meanings (05:51–11:49)

• Renaissance and the Birth of the “Griffe”: The emergence of the artist’s “signature”—the griffe—coincides with these acts of inscription. The signature is about presence and authenticity, distinguishing between an artist’s autographic mark and later, apocryphal additions.
  • “La griffe du peintre, c’est la trace d’une présence […] C’est une signature autographe.” – Guichard, [07:49]
• Defining Graffiti: The term “graffiti” arrives in the 19th century, rooted in Italian “graffio” (scratch) and Latin “graphium” (stylet). It means both drawn and written marks, unofficial and vernacular, etched by individuals or communities, outside institutional scripts.

3. Techniques & Variations in Historical Graffiti (11:49–15:07)

• Materials and Methods: Artists used whatever was available—soot from torches, daggers, sanguine pencils, graphite—each method leaving a distinct trace with implications for authorship and effort.
• Intent and Gesture:
  • Deep, time-consuming incisions (like Poussin carving into hard marble) held different meaning and intention than quick pencil marks.
  • The style of a signature itself can reveal an artist’s developing identity (e.g., Pajou’s distinctive “P”; [13:49]).

4. Graffiti as Temporal and Emotional Acts (15:07–18:00)

• Inscription and the Fight Against Time: From ancient emperors (as depicted in Les mémoires d’Hadrien) to 18th-century students, inscribing one’s name was a way of dialoguing with the past and asserting presence for the future.
  • “C’était encore s’opposer au temps. Un nom. Une somme de vie…” – (reading, [15:07])
• Temporal Layering: Graffiti intertwines multiple timelines—personal, artistic, and historical—in physical space.

5. Context: The Grand Tour and Cultural Shifts (18:48–24:32)

• The Grand Tour: Artistic pilgrimage to Rome was a rite of passage for generations of European artists and elites, who left their names scattered throughout the city ([19:09]).
• Evolution of Attitudes:
  • Earlier, leaving marks was accepted, even expected among artists. The notion of untouchable "patrimoine" (heritage) only emerges at the end of the 18th century. Only then are interventions and “vandalism” condemned.
  • New forms of documentation and protective measures arise as patrimonial ideas spread.

6. Graffiti Beyond Artistry: Obscenity, Violence, and Politics (26:58–32:34)

• Not Just Admiration: While artistic graffiti is the focus, Guichard notes the prevalence of politically or violently charged graffiti, particularly during turbulent times (e.g., 1527 sack of Rome by the troops of Charles V).
  • Soldiers not just carved names but also altered or defaced imagery—scratching out Pope Julius II’s face, leaving Luther’s name, and sometimes sketching their own images in the frescoes.

7. Changing Status of Graffiti (32:34–36:55)

• From Concealment to Conservation: Earlier restorers tried to erase graffiti; today, the most historic inscriptions are protected and even valorized, attesting to a shift in perception.
  • “Maintenant, le graffiti commence à avoir ce statut de graffiti historique…on va commencer à protéger les graffitis.” – Guichard, [32:34]
• Reading the Past’s Relationships to Art: The way people viewed masterpieces was physically, sometimes intimately close—a relation lost with today’s patrimonial distance ([35:13]).

8. Encountering Art: From Graffiti to the "Syndrome de Stendhal" (36:55–41:18)

• Syndrome de Stendhal: The 19th-century phenomenon (emotional overwhelm at art) reflects a cultural shift: admiration becomes inward and meditative rather than literal or bodily.
  • Graffiti were the earlier “externalization” of artistic emotion ([39:33]).
• Current Experiences: Today we rarely get physically close to art; even reproductions and museum displays tend to “crop out” the environments where such historical marks linger ([41:18]).

9. Revaluing Margins and Microhistories (41:38–47:06)

• The Wall as Witness: Quoting Brassaï, the wall itself is expressive and carries meaning beyond the central artwork ([41:38]).
• Historical Micro-narratives: Guichard underscores that looking at the margins, at graffiti, reveals new perspectives on canon formation and the social life of masterpieces.
  • The "pas de côté"—a methodological side-step—yields new insights ([43:20]).

10. The Historian’s Enquiry—and its Joys (44:56–50:34)

• Fieldwork Challenges: Uncovering and photographing graffiti requires detective work, access to closed-off sites, and sometimes physical contortions.
• Touching the Past: Guichard recounts crawling into fireplaces or standing on ladders to capture signatures, and the contagious curiosity that these actions arouse among visitors ([45:23]–[47:06]).
• Hubert Robert—The Painter of Ruins: The case of Robert, who painted and signed ruins (sometimes in places requiring athleticism to reach), epitomizes the complex relationship between art, admiration, and temporality ([47:21]–[49:32]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Ces murs sont de véritables palimpsestes…des formes de l’admiration au cours des siècles.” (Guichard, [03:50])
• “La griffe du peintre…c’est la trace d’une présence, c’est une signature autographe.” (Guichard, [07:49])
• “Le graffiti, c’est une inscription…une trace vernaculaire…hors du discours officiel.” (Guichard, [09:48])
• “C’était encore s’opposer au temps. Un nom. Une somme de vie dont personne ne comptait les éléments innombrables.” (Yourcenar, read at [15:07])
• “Aujourd’hui, le graffiti commence à avoir ce statut de graffiti historique.” (Guichard, [32:34])
• “La chose est la somme de toutes les choses qui lui arrivent.” (Jean Bazin, cited by Guichard, [35:13])
• “Pour voir les graffiti, il faut se mettre littéralement de côté…faire ce pas de côté, pour voir autre chose et pour voir autrement.” (Guichard, [43:20])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:27] – Introduction to theme: cities as museums, graffiti as history
• [01:16] – Guichard's approach: following in artists' footsteps in Rome
• [02:11] – The story of Poussin’s marble-inscribed graffiti under Raphael’s fresco
• [03:50] – Frescoes as palimpsests of time and admiration
• [07:49] – Emergence and meaning of the artist's "griffe"
• [09:48] – Etymology and historical meaning of "graffiti"
• [11:49] – Materials and variety in graffiti-making
• [14:10] – Pajou’s signature as artistic self-assertion
• [15:07] – Reading from Mémoires d’Hadrien on naming as resistance to time
• [18:48] – The Grand Tour as context for marks left by artists and elites
• [20:29] – When and why authorities started forbidding graffiti on masterpieces
• [26:58] – Jeanne Birkin’s song on modern graffiti vs. historic ones
• [29:06] – Political and violent graffiti: soldiers in the Sack of Rome
• [32:34] – Changing perception: from erasure to protection of historical graffiti
• [35:13] – Understanding past relationships to masterpieces
• [36:55] – The rise of the "syndrome de Stendhal" and romantic distance
• [41:38] – Brassaï on the expressive power of the wall itself
• [43:20] – Microhistory: revaluing the marginal through graffiti
• [45:23] – The historian’s detective work and public curiosity
• [47:21] – The story of Hubert Robert, painter and graffitist of ruins
• [50:34] – The challenge of attributing signatures—methodologies of proof

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is both intellectually rigorous and warmly engaging. Guichard’s scholarship shines as she brings empathy and nuance to both artists and their anonymous companions, championing a more embodied, less sanitized view of art history. This approach encourages all listeners—whether museum-goers or passersby—to look closer, to glimpse the vibrant conversations across time embedded, sometimes literally, in stone.

“Nous vivons entourés d’Histoire parce que le passé ne disparaît jamais… il y a la volonté de laisser une trace.” (Mauduit, conclusion)

Further Reading

• Charlotte Guichard, Graffiti, inscrire son nom à Rome (XVIᵉ–XIXe siècle), Seuil

For listeners eager to see the city’s walls with new eyes, next time you spot a name or date etched into stone, consider it an echo of centuries—a moving summary of the living history all around us.