Worship Leading with Integrity & Authority with Hope Darst

Summary

Lead Worship Well Podcast – Worship Leading with Integrity & Authority with Hope Darst

Host: Christian (MultiTracks.com)
Guest: Hope Darst
Date: March 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this rich and heartfelt conversation, worship leader and songwriter Hope Darst joins Christian for an in-person interview. Together, they explore themes of songwriting with integrity, leading worship from a place of vulnerability and authority, the intertwining of personal and corporate expressions in worship music, and the deep importance of genuine community and character in ministry. The episode is punctuated by memorable stories from Hope’s journey, timely wisdom for worship leaders, and live acoustic performances of her songs “Mighty Name of Jesus” and “You Can.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Journey into Songwriting: Vulnerability & Personal Encounter

• Hope’s songwriting roots:

  • Began songwriting much later in life (~2010), originally as a staff worship leader at a non-songwriting church [02:04].
  • Initial influence: witnessing spontaneous worship and vulnerability in others, leading her to similar practices.
  • “Something happens in the room when people are singing out from a well of experience with the Lord… It shifts the atmosphere.” (Hope, [06:41])

• On vulnerability:

  • Songwriting is an act of ministering to the Lord; if it’s authentic, it naturally ministers to people.
  • “I don’t want to be vulnerable for the sake of being vulnerable. That doesn’t really change someone’s life. But if I can be vulnerable in a way that makes space for someone else to feel like it’s safe to get close to the Lord right now… then that’s a good thing.” (Hope, [08:51])

2. Personal & Corporate Songwriting Approaches

• Church-centered writing:

  • Writing for the church is her passion and natural default ([09:55]).
  • The tension of writing both “corporate” and more “personal”/“less churchy” songs expanded her vocabulary and deepened her craft.

• Notable Story – “Start Over:”

  • Written from a raw moment of recurring anxiety and feelings of failure. The song became meaningful to listeners facing addiction, relapse, or setbacks ([11:44]).
  • “The gospel is that at every moment Jesus offers grace and mercy. And that is the start over button.” (Hope, [12:35])

3. Integrity, Authority & The Role of the Worship Leader

• Serving with authenticity:

  • “I don’t think you can write songs for the church well, if you are not actively in your church in every capacity… You have to actually love the church.” (Hope, [15:53])
  • Warning against trying to write for the church from a place of unresolved hurt or bitterness.

• Leadership and service:

  • The worship leader’s job is to shepherd people and help them encounter Jesus, not to serve themselves or their sense of significance ([17:43]).
  • “My job is to go, I’m here to get your eyes back on the one you first fell in love with… I’m not looking for people to tether themselves to me. I want the song to tether them to Jesus.” (Hope, [17:49] & [36:07])

• Quoting Colossians 3:

  • Let the peace of Christ keep you in tune with each other… “None of this going off and doing your own thing… and sing, sing your hearts out to God.” (Hope reciting, [18:55])

4. Songwriting with Sound Theology & Purpose

• Pastoring through words:

  • Careful attention to theological accuracy in lyric writing—songs must be “biblically written, accurately, theologically correct, but also, like, it’s real” ([25:11] & [28:05]).
  • The role of accountability in lyric writing (e.g., having a pastor review lyrics).

• Revelation and Authenticity:

  • The “encounter” at the genesis of the song is what others connect to when the song is sung corporately ([29:29]).
  • Example: “Mighty Name of Jesus” was written out of Hope’s journey praying for her daughter’s healing, blending both personal desperation and church-wide application ([25:12]).

5. Stories Behind the Songs & What Happens After Release

• Unexpected impact:

  • “Mighty Name of Jesus”’s bridge (“I draw a permanent boundary line. The enemy has no rights to come near my family.”): became an anthem for moms worldwide, especially in South Africa ([30:13]).
  • “We can bring the best of our skill set, but at the end of the day, you can’t make that happen. And you don’t want to make that happen.” (Hope, [32:04])

• Letting go:

  • Songs become “offerings.” Hope nearly didn’t include “Mighty Name” on her own record, choosing to honor her church’s schedule and vision rather than assert her own claims ([33:10]).

• The fruit of songwriting for the church:

  • Songs become deeply personal for congregations—they resonate so much it’s as if the church “owns” the song, disconnected from the songwriter’s persona ([36:24]).

6. New Project: The First Live Album

• Why a live album?

  • Hope felt compelled to return to the beginning: authentic, corporate, live worship ([37:13]).
  • God called her to “host” His presence, setting a table where Jesus is the guest of honor.
  • “You know how to set a table for me, and you know how to invite people into the room where I’m clearly the guest of honor.” (Hope, [41:32])
  • The confirmation: listeners felt genuinely invited into the presence of Jesus, regardless of their faith journey ([42:38]).

• Themes:

  • The album became a mixture of declarations of God’s character and prayers for faith and courage in hard seasons ([46:12]).
  • “Remember all of the reasons you said yes to Jesus.” — spontaneous lyric and emotional centerpiece ([50:30]).

7. Wisdom for Worship Leaders

• Knowing the Holy Spirit’s voice:

  • The most important skill for worship leaders is “to really take the time to learn the voice of the Holy Spirit” ([52:00]).
  • Practical steps: regularly read Scripture, make space for God in everyday life, act in obedience to small promptings, and cultivate intimacy in private that carries into public leadership.

• Don’t chase blueprints:

  • “There is no church, there’s no worship leader, there’s no worship team that’s ever the same… I have to know the voice of the Lord so well” for every unique environment ([52:47]).
  • Replicating others’ methods leads to insecurity and performance; true ministry springs from God’s specific leading.

• On calling vs. character:

  • “When your calling and your character match up… what I win here in that private place is what I get to do in public.” (Christian, [58:42])

• Redefining fruitfulness:

  • The church’s focus should be less on outward leadership or artistry and more on discipleship, humility, and living “the narrow road.”
  • “The world’s hungry for it because they’re looking, like, why are you any different? ... Their souls are hungry for something that is different than what the world has to offer.” (Hope, [61:14])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On songwriting as ministry, not self-expression:

  • “I’m always trying to get people to Jesus, and if I’m, like, the part that’s just the person that opens the gate, I love the scripture about just, if I could just be a gatekeeper in the house of the Lord, I’m just willing to open the gate, say, come on in, and let me tell you about this Jesus. He’s, like, changed my life.” (Hope, [09:26])

• On caring for the church:

  • “If you’re trying to write songs for the church, but you are wrestling with your angst and your anger or your disappointment or your bitterness with the church, you need to pause for a moment… you cannot write for the church well if you don’t love the church.” (Hope, [16:02])

• On public vs. private ministry:

  • “My public’s not gonna be different than my private. And what I win here in that private place is what I get to do in public.” (Christian, [58:42])

• On living surrendered:

  • “Seek ye first and all things will be added. … If you will live this way where, like, you actually are pursuing honoring me in everything that you do… then no matter what I’ve called you to do, it will be fruitful and it will be fruit that remains.” (Hope, [59:56])

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Key Timestamps

• 02:04: Hope shares her late start in songwriting & the culture shift in church music
• 07:37–09:42: Hope discusses integrating vulnerability & God’s nature in writing
• 15:33–18:15: The unique responsibility of worship leaders & loving the church
• 25:11–28:05: Ensuring theological soundness and the “weight” of writing for the church
• 30:13–34:51: The story behind “Mighty Name of Jesus” and its unexpected impact
• 37:02–41:32: Why Hope chose to record a live album—hosting God’s presence
• 50:30: Spontaneous lyric: “Remember all of the reasons you said yes to Jesus.”
• 52:00–58:42: Hope’s advice to worship leaders: Knowing the Holy Spirit and living out true discipleship
• 62:43–64:21: Introduction to live performances of “Mighty Name of Jesus” and “You Can”

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Live Musical Performances

“Mighty Name of Jesus” [64:39]

• A powerful declaration song written from a place of personal need, now resonating widely as a prayer for deliverance and protection.
• Key lines:
  • “I pray into the atmosphere. Spirit of God, you’re here. You have all authority. … On the doorframe of my life is the blood of Jesus Christ.”
  • “I draw a permanent boundary line, the enemy has no rights to come near my family.”

“You Can” [69:22]

• Written for Hope’s daughter, this song encourages faith for the impossible.
• Key lines:
  • “If anyone can save me, you can. If anyone can heal me, you can make a way when they say that it can’t be done. If anyone can, you can.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a heartfelt masterclass in worship leadership, spiritual authenticity, and the art of corporate songwriting. Throughout, Hope models vulnerability, submission to the Spirit, and a passionate commitment to Christ, urging worship leaders to cultivate private faithfulness that overflows into public ministry. The stories behind her songs and the insights into her creative process will encourage leaders and songwriters to be both honest and theologically rooted, always aiming to draw people deeper into the presence of Jesus.

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For worship leaders and songwriters: this episode is a must-listen to be reminded that the truest authority and fruitfulness in ministry flow from character, surrender, and a continual return to loving both Jesus and His church.

Transcript

[Christian]

Welcome back to the Lead Worship World podcast. My name is Christian and I'm your host today. I've had a ton of great conversations over the last couple of years of doing this podcast, but it's always a rare treat when I get to sit down and have an interview. Face to face online is great. We all use those tools every day, but you can't beat sitting down having a proper conversation with somebody. In this episode, Hope Das came into our office and we were able to sit down and have a really good chat about all things worship leading, her story and her new record. Hope is a trusted, passionate worship leader with a heart for the local church and writing songs that help worship leaders lead with a sense of integrity and authority. You'll know Hopes songs such as Peace, Be Still, Promise Keeper, if the Lord Builds the House, and many more. And as a bonus to this episode, Hope also recorded a couple of live acoustic versions of some of her new songs for you to listen to and enjoy as well. So sit back and enjoy this episode with Hope Dust. Well, Hope, thank you so much for being on the podcast, for having me.

[Hope Darce]

This is so much fun in person.

[Christian]

In person.

[Hope Darce]

I'm so excited.

[Christian]

I was saying to you before we press record, anytime we can have a conversation in person is way better than doing it on Zoom.

[Hope Darce]

Zoom is still terrible. I don't care. Like, I know it's now a part of our lives and da, da, da, but no one likes it. We only like it for its efficiency, but it will never substitute for the relational in person. So I'm happy to be here.

[Christian]

Great. Thank you for taking the time to be here. It's really exciting. We're gonna have a conversation. You're gonna play a couple of songs for us.

[Hope Darce]

Today's plan.

[Christian]

So it'd be loads of fun. Amazing. Well, I wanna ask you a question about songwriting to begin with and where your kind of inspiration draws from. I think our reflection of you as an artist is you've been incredibly vulnerable and really honest, and you are not afraid to kind of step into some of the challenging conversations. And we love that about you. And that leads me to think, does your songwriting start from that personal encounter with God, or does your songwriting that sometimes feels more corporate come from your church life, or is it a mixture of both? And have you noticed that in your journey?

[Hope Darce]

It's definitely a mixture for sure. You know, I think most people probably don't know. Like, I started writing songs very late in life.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

So I wasn't a songwriter. I've tried to do the Math on this. And I probably need to, like, go back and, like, really dig in, like, to, like, okay, when was the first song? But, you know, my computer's changed, like, five times by now. I don't know where anything is. Yeah, there's a hard drive somewhere, you know, that would tell me the date. But I. I think it was around 2010 that I actually kind of tipped my toe in. It was by happenstance, I was on staff at a church. It was not a songwriting community at that time. And to be honest with you, back in 2009, 2010, that was not the world. In church life, like, the way we see it now, you would have individual people that were, like, songwriters for churches, but, like, the worship team as a collective. And churches, like, pursuing writing songs for their house. That really wasn't as big of a thing. You had big movements like vineyard and maranatha and hillsong and different things at the time, but just worldwide. That's not what was going on. So I wasn't in a culture that was, like, perpetuating, you should be a songwriter. But I ended up in this church service where there was this worship leader that, at the time, I didn't really understand what it was, but they really just would kind of basically soak in the presence of God and would just, like, sing out right, like, spontaneously. And I was so gobsmacked by that. Like, it was something about that was so vulnerable and so honest. And you felt like you had, you know, opened the door into someone's secret room with the Lord. And you were like, why would someone be so vulnerable in this public setting? And that. It wrecked me. And I found myself in the months after that, I was on staff as the worship leader at a church, and all of a sudden, like, there would be these things that were, like, bubbling up in my spirit when I'd be leading. And so, like, just in one service, like, sang out this one, little, you know, stanza. And I remember thinking, like, I probably shouldn't have done that. Like, I don't know what was that? Because it wasn't my culture at the time. And that kind of opened the door for me to suddenly be like, wait, what is this world of, like, maybe there are songs deep in this well, heart of mine. And so I started just dabbling, like, a little bit here and there. And that went on for, like, six years. Like, it wasn't like I became a songwriter. It was just like every now and then, a little thing would trickle out of me. I mean, probably in that six years time, I wrote 20 songs. Like, it wasn't like I was pursuing being a songwriter. So we had a major shift about three, four years later in our life. We felt like God was calling me to come off staff, be a stay at home mom, kind of figure out, like, what the next season of life was. It just felt like one of those seasons where God's like, I need you to be willing to, like, step into nothing before I show you something. And it was such a hard thing. Cause it was like I had just taken on the role. I was gonna step in and be like the head of the worship department. I just said yes. And then God was like, actually, I need you to say no. Like, this is a good thing, but it's not the God thing for this season. And it was such a hard decision. Cause it was like kind of at that point, like the biggest dream in my heart. And I was, oh, gosh, Lord, like, why would you want me to walk away? Like, I feel like this is what I'm called to do with my life. But if you've ever heard me share, like, my whole life journey has been a series of God saying, are you willing to give that up? Are you willing to walk away from that? Are you willing to trust me? Are you willing? And so this was a habit that I'd practiced with the Lord, that if the Lord said, step away, go into a hidden season, give something up, I knew better to just do what the Lord asked. And so I did. And as a result, my family ended up meeting this Aussie couple, you know, six months later in a basement for just like this gathering of people. We just kind of stumbled into it and, you know, it kind of wrecked our whole world because it was another atmosphere, like that worship leader that was like pouring out from such a vulnerable place. And I stepped into this basement with these two Aussies who were just no agenda. Just Henry Seeley sitting at the piano and Alex Seeley just sharing her heart and preaching and setting an atmosphere. You were like, the only way this is gonna work is if you are absolutely, like, emptied out. And so I think because that was my two experiences in this season of this decade, that was like, slowly preparing my heart for becoming a songwriter. I've not known how to do anything other than write songs from that place, because that's the place that hooked me with the Lord of going. Something happens in the room when people are singing out from a well of experience with the Lord, of trust, with the Lord, of relationship with the Lord. That's clearly not been cultivated in this moment. Like this isn't happening in real time. I'm experiencing something right now that's already going on in their life. And so that's why there's these things that just come out of them. And it shifts the atmosphere. And so I think because that's what I saw, and it actually had an impact on me. It made space for me to know the Lord in a more intimate way. It made space in a room when Henry would just sit at a piano and just begin to sing to the Lord. Like, literally minister to the Lord. It would minister to me, right? And so I think I've always tried to approach songwriting in any capacity from that mindset is if I am ministering to the Lord, it will minister to people. Wow.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

And so if that's the posture of my heart and I'm ministering to the Lord, there's gonna be two things that have to happen in that moment, right? There's gonna have be adoration and praise and reverence for who he is. And then there also has to be the reality of relationship with the Lord and bringing questions and tensions and all of those things, but all of those tensions. And, you know, the more vulnerable lyrics that you write in a song, they don't hold any potency or anointing or oil or power if they actually are just questions that have no sense of resolve with the nature of the Lord, right? Like, I know the nature of God. I know that he is good. I know that he is faithful. I know that he is trustworthy. So I'm able to be super vulnerable because I know the landing place isn't just a question mark. Well, the landing place is my question mark. Sits in the nature of God. And I can leave it there and rest assured that even while I may not have answers yet, I still place all of those questions, all those uncertainties in the trustworthiness of God's nature. And I think that's what infuses hope in the room, right? Like, I don't wanna be vulnerable for the sake of being vulnerable. That doesn't really change someone's life. But if I can be vulnerable in a way that makes space for someone else to feel like it's safe to get close to the Lord right now. It's safe to pour my heart out to the Lord. It's safe to maybe say the hard thing in my quiet time. Or it's safe to cry for the first time in the presence of God. And if being vulnerable allows someone else to be vulnerable, then that's a good thing. But vulnerability, just for the sake of it, I don't think that's necessarily good. I think it can actually become self indulgent, and it can become all about us. I'm always trying to get people to Jesus, and if I'm, like, the part that's just the person that opens the gate, I love the scripture about just, if I could just be a gatekeeper in the house of the Lord, I'm just willing to open the gate, say, come on in, and let me tell you about this Jesus. He's, like, changed my life. And I don't think you can do that without being honest and vulnerable.

[Christian]

So brilliantly put. So in your approach to songwriting, you're not necessarily being intentional about. This is a song for me ministering to God, and this is a corporate song. If I'm real and I'm true in it, then it's gonna connect people.

[Hope Darce]

Yeah, I think I naturally started writing songs for the church. I think it's subconscious. I think it's just always in the subconscious of my mind. I signed a record deal at 40. My first two records, if I'm completely honest, were a wrestle for me, because up until that point, I'd only known how to write for the church. That was the only context I knew. I started there. I didn't know anything else. And then all of a sudden, I'm making my first record in my second record, and recognizing that just the season that I was in and what I felt like God called me to in that season was to kind of go beyond just the walls of the church and maybe reach some people that love Jesus, but don't necessarily love worship music. And so both those records were kind of of these hybrids. You had moments that felt really worshipful and then some that felt less corporate and all that kind of stuff. And that was hard. It was actually harder for me to write that way than to just write straight corporately, because that was the muscle I had. But I think working that muscle in the uncomfortable place as a songwriter and, like, going, how do I be really honest? Like, there's this song on my first record called Start Over. The last track on the record, I walked into this songwriting moment with my friends Mia Fields. If you want to go dig around multitrucks, you'll find her name, like, 100,000 times. It was her and my friend Ben Cantelon. Do you know Ben?

[Christian]

I know Ben really well.

[Hope Darce]

Oh, my gosh. She's my dear friend.

[Christian]

I actually did a lot of my mentoring at Soul Survivor.

[Hope Darce]

No.

[Christian]

And they used to put me in a House with Ben Cantelon stunt. So when Ben was at the time, he was drumming for Tim Hughes and then he was keys player for Tim. And I would go over once a month to Watford and stay with Ben.

[Hope Darce]

I mean, that makes sense.

[Christian]

We'd hang out at topgolf and he would try to teach me how to play.

[Hope Darce]

I'm going to see him in two weeks. So I'm going to say hello back

[Christian]

in London now, which is amazing.

[Hope Darce]

He is. And I walked in, I had already released this record or we had already PSP still had already been out for a couple of years. It was already at radio. And that obviously informed kind of the creative side of how I was writing that record. And I walked in and I had really been struggling with anxiety again, which was kind of where Peace Be still was birthed out of Mia Fields co wrote Peace To Be still with Me. So I walk into the room and I was like, I'm so mad. I'm feeling that wave again that like we wrote against. And I feel like a bit of a fail. I'm fighting feelings of failure. Like, I should be further than this and I should be da, da. And I just said, I just wish. You know those Easy Button commercials?

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Hope Darce]

And I remember saying, I wish there was just like a start over button.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

I wish I could go back to the previous season where I wasn't feeling all of this and not feeling like a failure and not struggling with anxiety again. I was like, but I also know, like, if we're here again, then God has something he wants to do in me in this season. Like, there's another layer of healing, another layer of getting closer to the Lord for my benefit that will come through this. And I was like, but man, it just stinks when you feel like you have gone 10ft forward, 100ft forward, and all of a sudden you're 25ft back, you know, and that particular day she had had a loved one have to go into rehab who had already been in rehab prior. And we just begin to share these moments of like, man, there's just this tension in real life of like, so often we just wish we'd be like, oh, I just wish I could just start over. Like, I wish this season wasn't the season that I was in and having that moment of going. But that is the gospel. Like, the gospel is that at every moment Jesus offers grace and mercy. And that is the start over button. That is the easy button. Like, I don't actually get to do it, but Jesus does it for me. And so we write this song that's not corporate at all, but it's incredibly vulnerable. Like, I cried the whole session, like, in the demo. Like, I'm crying because I can barely. Because it's so vulnerable. And even though that's not a radio song and it's not a church song, it's probably one of the songs I get the most messages about. Because people are like, I'm an addict, or I'm this, or, I did this. And I had, you know, 20 years sober, and my dad's a recovering alcoholic, and so many people can relate. And even if it's not addiction, it can just be like, man, I thought I was so much further in, like, dealing with insecurity, or I thought I was so much further and dealing with anger, you know, whatever. And so all of that season, to circle back of writing like that for the first record and the second record, it's actually made me a better corporate songwriter because it expanded my language, it expanded my brain to go to, like, nooks and crannies of my heart and my relationship with the Lord and even theology and all of those things. So that now, as I've made the shift with this third record to be a live record and to really kind of go. I've tried this all now, and I think the thing that comes out of me naturally over and over and over and over without me having to think about it, without me having to be like, I'm gonna write for the. Is writing songs for the church just being super corporate. It's like I come alive. And I felt like the Lord said in this season and moving forward, he was like, this is the well I want you to draw from. And it doesn't mean that there won't be other startovers or different songs like that that come out in the years ahead. I'd be excited if something else comes out. I don't think you should ever say, I can't write that because this is what I mostly do. But I think it makes those songs, probably you hunt a little harder and longer. And you don't, like, just put anything out. Like, you put something out because you're like, oh, this feels like something very specific that the Lord is asking me to say in a very specific way. But, yeah, I mean, writing for the church, it's like. It's my passion.

[Christian]

Do you think there's a. I think there is. So I'm asking the question to validate my own opinion.

[Hope Darce]

I will validate it.

[Christian]

Do you think there's something unique about being Able to be a songwriter and a worship leader that you get to view songs that you're writing through the gift that you get to give to other worship leaders that you would lose if you were only writing songs for the church.

[Hope Darce]

Yeah.

[Christian]

And not worship leaders.

[Hope Darce]

I don't think you can write songs for the church. Well, if you are not actively in your church in every capacity.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

If you're not attending church, serving on a team. So I don't want to say you have to be in the worship team to be able to write a song, but I do think you should be serving in your church and involved in the community. Otherwise, you don't actually understand the heartbeat and the lifeline of what the local church is. And on top of that, more than anything, I should say you have to actually love the church. If you're trying to write songs for the church, but you are wrestling with your angst and your anger or your disappointment or your bitterness with the church, you need to pause for a moment. Instead of writing something corporate, go wrestle it out with the Lord. Maybe go write something that doesn't feel necessarily super corporate, but you need to pause for a second because you cannot write for the church. Well, if you don't love the church.

[Christian]

So interesting. One of the jobs I get to do here at Multitracks is this podcast. I think it's cause of an accent. They just rolled me out.

[Hope Darce]

I mean, it is nice to listen.

[Christian]

Just go and say something. So we started this. It would have been just post Covid. I'm still back home in the uk and my first guests on the podcast were Alex and Henry.

[Hope Darce]

No way.

[Christian]

And then Carrie and Cody were my second guests on the podcast. So we started it quite early, which was great. And I remember chatting. Yeah, I remember chatting to Alex and Henry. And they were in the basement. I think they had just moved into the new building potentially. And we're having this conversation. And they shared so much of the story of the belonging co and so much of, like, the Nashville music scene and songwriters and musicians and people that serve the church. But a lot of them walked into that basement, maybe not in the healthiest place. And a lot of them walked in wrestling through some of the things you're exactly saying now. And I think there's no surprise why that's now such an incredible part of the DNA of the church that everybody serves and loves the house first.

[Hope Darce]

Well, I think you love the house. Cause God loves the house. And I was thinking about this this morning. This is like a sidebar. But, you know, I Think there's so many people just in culture in general right now is such a. It always has been, it always will be a self gratifying culture, right? I will commit to that. If it's serving me well, right? And if it's not serving me well, like I have no obligation, like I need to remove that thing from my life, it's not serving me well. I mean I literally hear this all the time. And you'll hear it in leadership, like in non Christian, like leadership things, like if that's stealing energy and that's not serving you, you know, all those kinds of things. The thing about the church though is that it was never meant to serve us, right? The church is meant to glorify Jesus and serve people. And as a worship leader, my job is actually to help shepherd the people. My job is actually to come in and say, God, how do I partner with you and the Holy Spirit to shepherd your people, to pull them in, get them back into the fence of your house. Like if they're on the fringes or one is like just like I'm here by a thread or I'm here, don't wanna be here, whatever that is. And I'm talking about your Sunday mornings. Like my job is to go, I'm here to get your eyes back on the one that you first fell in love with or the one that you haven't met yet and present him in such a way that there is life on it, that it is attractive, that it smells like the aroma of Jesus. And you can't do that. If you reek of bitterness, if you reek of criticism, if you reek of disappointment and offense and hurt, or even just man pleasing. Like all of those things, it gets into the fragrance of your life. And now all of a sudden there's like this competition of the thing that people are feeling and sensing and smelling. And so for me it has been a constant. Like I have to make sure that my heart posture about who God is and how he feels about the church. Like I'm in alignment with that. It doesn't mean that you can't say there are things that aren't working or there isn't something that isn't healthy, that's just being silly. Like we don't put blinders on, you know, I can see something that's not working or something that could be better. And I still love the body of Christ, I still love the church, I still believe in the church. And I just think we as worship leaders have to be really careful to guard our Hearts and minds. There's this scripture, I just wanna read it cause I pulled it up so it fits here. It's in Colossians 3, 15, 7. Let the peace of Christ keep you in tune with each other, in step with each other. None of this going off and doing your own thing. And cultivate thankfulness. Let the word of Christ, the message, have the run of the house. Give it plenty of room in your lives. Instruct and direct one another using good common sense. And sing, sing your hearts out to God. Let every detail in your life, words, actions, whatever, be done in the name of Jesus, thanking God the Father in every step of the way. I think that has to remain the posture of every person that first and foremost that calls himself a believer. But especially for worship leaders, especially for people that feel called to write songs for the church, like one of my, the biggest things. And there's like none of this going off and doing your own thing, which is such a temptation for people who are riding this really awkward line of being like, I'm, I'm a volunteer or I'm a worship leader on staff or part time staff, but I'm also a songwriter and artist. And I just think like first and foremost, I'm a disciple of Christ. And if that's not the thing that I'm running after, if that's not the thing that's my number one pursuit of, like, do I look like Jesus in this moment? And I'm talking about with my kids, with my husband, Like, I'm constantly checking in Holy Spirit, like, am I managing my time well right now? Am I managing my attitude right now? Like, where are we off? Where are we in alignment with you? And we're off. If you're doing that, if you're going about the Lord's business and wanting to do the business of the kingdom, well, I just think that solves so many problems and it solves so many, it puts so many guardrails around the pitfalls of getting. Then I need to go get validation somewhere else. Or I'm fine with being on staff at a church, even though I'm miserable here. And I don't want to love people and I don't really want to give my life to people and I don't want to serve people because it's not serving me well. Like, I think all of those things have to be torn down. And the only way to do that is to be in a community. You can't do it off by yourself. You just can't. We're just too selfish. Like Right. Like, it's just human beings. Like, we just think we're better than we actually are and we'll just run off and we'll do our own thing. And I don't know, I think that you see that a lot. It's subtle. It creeps in little by little. And I don't even mean just as an artist. Right. Like, but I do think it's a temptation that if you are writing for the church and you are a worship leader or you're a worship artist, like, you really, really do have to make sure that, like, the number one goal in your life is to be a true disciple of Christ, to smell like the fragrance of Jesus, to love the church and to serve, not be served.

[Christian]

We can stop there. That's incredible. That's so good. Thank you for sharing that. I know that wasn't on our list of conversations, but clearly God's putting it on your heart. There's a scripture there for you to share.

[Hope Darce]

That's the foundation of actually being a good songwriter. Yeah, you can be the most skilled person in the room, but if your heart posture isn't actually, like, how do I help the bride see Jesus? How do I help the bride love Jesus more? How do I help the bride remember that Jesus is worth laying her life down? If that's not what you're going after, then what's the point? It is clinging. It is just symbols, like, the world's writing. Songs that aren't doing that, and honestly, they're great. You know what I mean? Our job is different. Our assignment is different. And it has to be different because it actually has to be life giving. It actually has to have oil on it. That actually goes into the atmosphere and allows for people to actually get to know Jesus in a real tangible way so that they may be set free, so that they may encounter the God who heals and rescues and saves. And that has to inform your songwriting. It's not about the most well crafted song. I have great songs that were crafted really well and they did absolutely nothing. Do you know what I mean? And then sometimes, like, I have songs, I'm like, that's not even a great song. But it's capturing people's hearts because it's true, it's honest, it's biblically written, accurately, theologically correct, but also, like, it's real. Like, it's digging into the life of the church. You know my newest song, Mighty Name of Jesus, Like, I wrote that at a songwriting camp for my church.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

And it's the combination of what you're talking about the personal and the corporate. We go away. Our pastors say, hey, this is what we're feeling in our hearts. And Pastor Alex said, I really feel like we need songs that are declarations and prayers for the body of Christ. And simultaneously, my family had been in a three year journey of believing for our daughter's healing. And so, so much of my daily life has been praying over my kid. Like, sitting in doctor's offices and hearing another. We can't figure it out. We don't know what to do. We don't know why she's still in pain. We've done the surgery and everything worked. The MRIs are clear. And so when you're in a constant season of no answers and you're watching your daughter in pain, let me tell you, the word of God becomes a lifeline for you. And you begin to read it and say it and declare it, because at some point, your own language, the English language or whatever language you speak, it just begins to fail you. There's just not enough words to know what to say. And so you just go back to the word of God. And so I would just pray over and like, no weapon formed against you shall prosper. That by his stripes you are healed. That he has put boundary lines for you in pleasant places like you shall not. My daughter has held onto Joshua 1:9. You know, be strong and courageous, like, do not fear, for I am the Lord your God. And with you, like, we've just held onto the word of God. And so I walk into a songwriting room and I go, I'm a mom who's had to pray and declare for year after year, and I still don't have the answer. We're still on our journey even today as I sit here. And so I'm writing a song from a place that's really honest and vulnerable because it's my real life and it's what I'm doing. But I'm also thinking about every single person sitting in my church. I'm thinking about one of my co writers who I know is walking through a health journey. I'm thinking about all the people in my church that I know have been believing to be able to conceive a baby. I'm thinking personally and I'm also thinking corporately. And I'm going, let's give them a weapon of warfare in their moments when they are, like, hanging on by a thread because hope is hard to see that day. Or grief is really. It's there. It's at their front doorstep. I Don't know a lot of that about all those people. If I'm not in my local church, it would be so easy to write a song that's just about me and my family. If I don't have a heart that is bent towards God, how do I serve your people? And it's the thing. It's like I'm gonna couple the truth of God's word and just hopefully put it in the hands of other people in a way that suddenly it was never about me or about my story. It's just about the word of God working in that moment in their lives. And I think that's really important, like, for songs.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Hope Darce]

Especially for the church. Can we just be really careful what we're writing? Like, you know, there's definitely. I love language. I mean, obviously I'm a songwriter and I have a million words, but I do think we have to be really care that we're not just writing lyrics because they sound cool or they sound fresh, but they may not actually be rooted in a truth that's accurate and just being careful. And we have a pastor on staff. He looks at all of our lyrics when we're writing for the church and makes sure they're theologically sound. And I'm not saying you can't take some creative license to some little things. Read Psalms. David's crazy. He's writing some wild stuff. I think God loves poetry, and I'm not against it, but I do think, don't sit in a bubble and isolate yourself and just think that you have for sure written it. Well. I mean, speaking of Cody Carnes, he had a song he had written, and then there was like one line, like, later on that he was like, you know, I've gone back and I've looked at that line, and I don't think it was theologically correct. And he made like an Instagram post about it and just said, hey, you know, I'm not gonna re release the song, but I will be changing the lyrics moving forward. And I would love it if you guys would too. And I was like, that is a leader right there who's willing to, like, say, hey, I didn't get this one right. Let's change it. But so many people would have just been like, ah, it's fine. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

[Christian]

And so I was reminded a conversation with Cody, when you were talking, we were having a conversation about songwriting. And he made this phrase that really stuck with me. He said, in the moment of writing a song, when you're writing from Revelation or an encounter or a petition. There's something about that moment with God that can be locked up in the song, that when you then see the song travel and it's sung and it's used, there's something of that encounter that then gets released in those areas.

[Hope Darce]

I think that's true.

[Christian]

And I'm thinking about the song Mighty Name. What are the stories that you hear that, like, wow, that should never have happened. But there's something of my story or the genesis of the song that's being unlocked as it's being.

[Hope Darce]

Well, here's what's crazy. So we write that song. I'm thinking that the part of the song that's gonna, like, the thing that, like, people gravitate towards is gonna be the bridge.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

And this lyric that says, you know, I will not fear when the enemy comes near on the doorframe of my life is the blood of Jesus Christ. Because we were writing so much of this from Old Testament and understanding that, like, we now are a metaphor for the doorframe. Right? Like, so the blood of Jesus has covered our lives. Now we've been grafted in. So that means because of that, like, I actually can say, like, enemy, you actually don't have rights here. Like, I know you are gonna come after me, but I can also say, this is what the word of God says. And I thought that that would be, like, the line. Because it was, like, so significant to me in that moment. I have no idea that South Africa is gonna lose their minds over the second verse that says, I draw a permanent boundary line. The enemy has no rights to come near my family. And it's funny because in the moment I remember we were writing that lyric, and I think I even said, I was like, this is like our mama bear, like, warrior line. Because I felt that. But it was so personal to me that I wasn't really thinking about it being the line for everyone else. Does that make sense? I just thought it would be a line in the second verse. I left the line that I wasn't thinking. This is the line. The line. And all of the sudden, like, we just see video after video after video after video of moms, like, walking around their houses, praying over their kids, praying over their homes, and just being like, I draw a permanent boundary line. And I remember just being like, oh, I didn't even realize that, like, the thing that I was truly actively doing in my own life.

[Christian]

Right?

[Hope Darce]

Yeah, Somewhat, like, maybe got locked up in that song without being intentional with it. Just being honest, like, writing what was honest. What Was true, but was also biblically sound. Right. So all of those things mixed together, and that has been such a powerful part of that song. Like, so many people have reached out and been like, this has become our family's anthem. I sing this over my kids every single morning, or I sing this around my house during my quiet time. Now it's just like a stake in the ground over my family. And I'm just like, that's amazing. Because we always need to be reminded that we aren't actually really that great at what we're doing. Do you know what I mean? We can bring the best of our skill set, but at the end of the day, you can't make that happen. And you don't want to make that happen. You actually do want to show up, bring the best of what you have that day as an offering and a sacrifice before the Lord, and then be done. And then if God breathes on it, God breathes on it. I mean, that song almost didn't even make the record.

[Christian]

Really?

[Hope Darce]

Yeah, it didn't. I didn't put it on my live record because I wrote it for my church.

[Christian]

Right.

[Hope Darce]

Okay. I didn't write it for my personal record, and I wanted to be honoring to that. And so I was like, look, I wrote it for church. They've not figured out what songs they're doing for church. And I didn't have to do it that way. That was just a personal conviction that I felt about the song. So we had already recorded my record, and I was in the studio with Austin Davis, who produced my live record. He's done the last, I don't know how many, Six Belonging records, seven belonging a lot. And we were talking, and I was like, hey, are you guys gonna do Mighty Name on the new record? And he was like, actually, I don't know. He's like, I think it's like, in the maybe list. And I was like, cool. I think you should go listen to it again. I was like, I'm gonna be really sad if this song doesn't make either record. I was like, I didn't record it cause I wanted to, you know? And he went back, and I think he called me, like, the next week, and he was like, oh, yeah? He's like, we're gonna record it. So I say that because, like, you have to let it go. Like, you just. You have to, like, look at that moment as, like, I am gonna pour out an offering before the Lord and show up and try to be really, really true and honoring of the Lord and my Co writers in this moment and not hold back, like, pour myself with everything I have into this song. And then you have to just, like, it's an offering. Like, it's almost like. Like, supernaturally put it in an offering basket and go, I trust you with that God. If there is a return on it, that's great. But I didn't offer it to you for a return. That's the Lord's. It was the Lord's to begin with. It's the Lord's if it's going somewhere. It was never mine to begin with. I just happened to get to be a part of it that particular day.

[Christian]

What a gift for you to give the song like that to the church. But what a gift for you to hear those stories of people.

[Hope Darce]

Well, yeah. I mean, I think it's really easy to think songwriting is dumb, and it doesn't matter. You know what I mean? We all have our existential crisises, and songwriters have it, too. You're just like, is this a dumb job? Like, what am I doing with my life? I could be doing a lot more important things. And I think those are really sweet moments where the Lord allows you to say, like, hey, this does have significance in the kingdom of God. This is a way for you to serve my house and serve my people. And it's really beautiful to watch that. And I've been a recipient of that. Do you know what I mean? Like, I could rattle off for you so many songs that, like, met me in a season where I was really struggling or I was believing for something, right? And they become like, this beautiful rope that, like, I grab onto the song. And the more I grab onto the song, it's like, it pulls me closer and closer to Jesus. Right? It's like this beautiful thing. And I've benefited from so many of those songs. And it's interesting. I think our world of worship is so unique, and maybe this is just true of me, but it never tethered me to the person who wrote it.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

It's just always tethered me to the Lord. Wow.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Hope Darce]

And I think that really should be our job. And our goal is, like, I'm not looking for people to tether themselves to me. I want the song to tether them to Jesus. And so when it goes out and you see that happening, that's amazing. That's the greatest reward.

[Christian]

Yeah. That's really insightful. I've had this conversation recently with worship leaders who almost feel like they own wrote a song that they didn't. And let me explain that Worship leaders who are customers of Multi tracks. You say this song is so special to our church. It's almost like it's my song. It's almost like a song that I'm passionate about on my own in the best way possible. That it means so much to our church.

[Hope Darce]

It's become part of the DNA of their house.

[Christian]

They don't know who wrote it.

[Hope Darce]

Yeah, exactly.

[Christian]

They don't know who wrote it. They don't know where it came from. They don't know the story. But it's just something that I think that's beautiful. They're really beautiful. Yeah. And I hadn't thought about the whole tethering thing until you mentioned it there. Okay. Talk to me about your new project that you released in April.

[Hope Darce]

Yeah.

[Christian]

First live album.

[Hope Darce]

First. Okay.

[Christian]

So why live?

[Hope Darce]

On my own?

[Christian]

On your own? Yeah.

[Hope Darce]

Yes. I've obviously recorded songs with the Belonging, but this was the first, like, Hope Darce live.

[Christian]

Yeah. So why live and not studio? Was that intentional?

[Hope Darce]

Yes.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

It was very intentional. I mean, I kind of hinted at it earlier. I'd done two studio projects, which, again, when I signed my record deal. So I signed my record deal, first record deal at 40, which is crazy. So because of this first two records, I. I remember stepping in at 40, and I prayed this really scary prayer with the Lord and I just said, okay, God, I know that, like, my timeline looks so different from everyone else's. And so I said, God, I know that everyone has to go through this process. Like, I didn't. I wasn't trying to break it and become an artist and then finally got, you know, like, I wasn't doing that. So I really stepped into this world extremely green, not having done anything prior. I wasn't out touring or any of those kinds of things trying to build a name. I just was a mom and a local worship leader that I stepped into this. And I said this one thing to the Lord. I said, lord, I don't wanna skip steps, okay? But I'm asking that you expedite the process. And I was like, I'm gonna regret this prayer, but I have watched. And no matter what field you're in, in order to be someone who I think can do it and do it well and carry maybe the weight of leadership in it and the gift of leadership in it, like, you just have to go through the process of whatever that is. Right. Like we look at the Bible, Jesus had to live 33 years before he started ministering. You know, I don't know the exact timeline, but David was Anointed king long before he was appointed. Right. Like, there is a maturing character process that has to happen and the only way it can happen is through time. So I was praying this prayer with the Lord of going, I don't wanna miss the process of what I need in order to have the character and the maturity and the weight bearing strength of this job that you've called me in, this season, that you've called me to do. But I knew that, like, I'm 40, I ain't got 20 years to figure this out, Lord. So he did that, and he did that through those first two project was so much tension and wrestling and okay, does this work? I don't like that that process does not work for me. Or ooh, I tried that. That doesn't feel true. It was like the Lord was just taking 10 years of what I think a lot of people do. Unknown kind of working through all the things and allowing me to do that in this particular, like, lane where I had already been doing 20 years of leading worship. So that was not the, that wasn't the place that I needed the growth. It was like, how do you make records? And how do. I didn't know. I had no idea. So after the first two, I went back to the Lord and I was like, okay, I can't believe we got to do two projects. This is crazy. And I have a third project and my label amazingly wants me to do this third project. So, Lord, what is this project supposed to be? Because I don't feel this need to just make a project just because you're supposed to make another project. I was like, God, I really, really, really want to make something that you've asked me to make and that your hand is on and that you're breathing on. And so I really sat with the Lord and I just, I kept hearing the same thing over and over and over. And the Lord was like, I want you to go back to the beginning, go back to the beginning, go back to the basics, go back to who you've always been, how I designed. You sing like I made you to sing. And I knew just like in all those little quiet moments, oh, I've gotta go back to like square one of a record. That is me just leading worship. And I remember in one of those conversations with the Lord, I said, okay, Lord, I think I'm getting the sense that you want me to do a live worship record or just a worship record. And at this point, I didn't know if it should be studio or live, but I knew it had to be corporate. Like, truly songs for the church. And I was like, lord, why? There's a million worship leaders. There's so many worship records. Like, how do you see me as a worship leader, Lord? Like, how do I serve your house? Like, as a. Like, what uniquely have you called me to do as a worship leader? As I was just a little, like, uncertain. And I got the weirdest response. I felt like, from the Lord. And I just heard him say, you're a host. And I remember just sitting there with that thought, and anyone who knows me, like, I love hosting people in my home. I love hospitality. I go hard. Like, how can I throw you the greatest party of your life and make you feel loved? And I go above and beyond. Like, I. Every little detail I care about. I care that the napkins match the color of the cups, and I care that you. Like, I go hard. I'm a pinch. I'm a walking Pinterest board in my brain, you know? And I just sat there with that thought, and I felt like the Lord was like, and that's how you are with me. Like, in my presence. You host me well, okay, I'll get emotional. And I felt like the Lord just said, you know how to set a table for me, and you know how to invite people into the room where I'm clearly the guest of honor. And I was so humbled that I felt like the Lord allowed me to sense that that's what he felt about me. And so I felt like the Lord was like, go set a table. Just go set a table in my presence and let people feast. You know how to do that. And so I couldn't imagine any other way of doing that than live than life.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Hope Darce]

Because how do you invite people into a dinner? How do you invite them to a table to feast in the presence of God if you haven't been with them face to face and really just going, hey, come with me. Like, let's. The guest of honor tonight is Jesus. And if you will get near to him, like, you're going to leave this place so satisfied, like, it'll be the greatest meal of your life. And I wanted to capture that in that room so that for every person that heard it, long after that moment was gone, they would be like, I feel like I was just invited into this space with Jesus or this moment with Jesus, kind of like being invited into this really intimate dinner party with the Lord. And it's been really cool. I've had so many different people in my life reach out, people that I know, are on the fringe with the Lord or have walked away from the Lord or have definitely walked away from the church and are wrestling through. I believe in God, that I don't know how I feel about the church. And so many of them sending me a message saying, I can't remember the last time I listened to Christian music or worship music and felt like it was honest or true or that like it. And so many of them just said, like, it's like, you invited me into a space where Jesus was real. And I feel like, for me, that. Like, that that was the proof that, like, I heard you, Lord. I did what you asked me to do. And that's all, like, whatever else it does. The fact that Mighty Name has, you know, been a. A big song of this record that pales in comparison to knowing that, like, you felt like the Lord gave you an assignment, and even if that was for one person, that that assignment was fulfilled in their life, like, that, to me is like, okay. I don't know. That's the joy of getting to do it. And for other people, like, no matter what your job is, like, that should always be right. The posture of, like, lord, what do you want me to do? And this job or this assignment or this season and then to do it. And sometimes you never know if, like, what you did ended up being, like, what you felt like the Lord asked you to do. But, man, when you get these little moments or these little windows or these little conversations where someone uses the language back to you that only you and the Lord had been talking about, there is just nothing greater. It's like the one tangible thing I feel like we get in this life where you feel like, okay, God, like we did.

[Christian]

I think the. The thing that great songwriters do for the church is they give you a language to say something you always wanted to say, but you didn't know how to say it.

[Hope Darce]

That's true.

[Christian]

And I think we started this podcast by thanking you for your vulnerability and authenticity.

[Hope Darce]

Yeah, you're right. I'm crying.

[Christian]

You are crying, which is great. But I think even in the way that you are articulating what you do and the way that you do it, it's so authentic. Because what you're hearing back is what's happening in private. The language that you are giving to people that wanted to say something that didn't know how to say it, it's kind of all in there. It's so beautiful. There's so much in that new record as well, that kind of really is declaration and authority and Kind of like, we talked about this in the song and seeing those stories come back, but there's so much in there that kind of really leans into who am I and who are you? And the connection together. Tell me a little bit around the themes that naturally played out.

[Hope Darce]

I didn't know it until the end of the record. Like, it's amazing how I think people think artists are more calculated than we actually are. I think we just kind of. Some are actually very smart and very calculated, and they know what they're doing. Most people are like me, and we're just, like, in the dark, stumbling around and going, I hope all this turns out to be something. And it was crazy. Like, the further we got into the record, I started seeing all these themes. It was kind of like this duality of, like, the person that's declaring all the things that they need to believe about who God is and what they have to believe about their situation. Then the other side of that coin was like. And then all of these songs that were declaring who God is, like, and in a posture of reverence, like, if you've. If you haven't listened to the record, like, there's a song called Forever his, which is just super vertical. And it's all about just declaring, like, okay, put your eyes on the lamb of God. Like, to the one who sits on the throne. He's worthy. He's. You know, and there's Give me Jesus. And, you know, there's just these different moments that are very much vertical. And then there's these moments that are very much like, I have to say this in order for my faith and my hope and my resilience to believe that all of this is true stays intact. Right? And I wasn't intentionally doing that. It's just what was coming out of me. Cause it's what I was living. I was writing. You know, I wrote Hands of the Healer. That was the first song that was written for the record. And I wrote it quite earlier than all the other songs. And it was a song that we wrote for people who have actually. Like, when I went in the songwriting room, everyone in the room had experienced in their lives some form of healing with the Lord, whether it was emotional, spiritual, or physical or mental. And so we were just telling stories about how, like, we have all experienced it. And we wrote that song for people to be like, hey, like, we're here to give you the testimony of, like, God's got you. Like, he's still a healer. And then that. I write that, but then I don't Know that I'm gonna be in the journey with my daughter that I shared that we've been in for three years. And so there were songs like you can and Mighty Name, like Mighty Name came out of that you Can. I wrote for my daughter specifically because she's a little worship leader as well for our youth ministry. And I just. I adore her. And reading her Bible and worshiping have been her anchors on days where she's, like, in pain and struggling with another, you know, difficult doctor's office meeting.

[Christian]

And.

[Hope Darce]

And so I watched her grab onto worship songs much like I do, and I thought, I want to write a song for her. That on a really hard day when you're going, lord, how do I face another morning of pain and no answers. I wanted to give her a song, and that is going to have to be a song that's rooted in the nature of God, that is also declaring the nature of God in order to change the perspective of that moment for you. Right. Like, it doesn't solve everything to sing that song, but what that song can do is realign your mind and your heart and posture it back in a place of hope instead of a place of disappointment or a place of hopelessness. It's the constant act of worship. Worship is so cyclical. Right. Like, I lift my eyes, I give you reverence for who you are. That allows me to see my circumstance differently. So then I'm looking at my circumstance, I'm like, oh, wait, I have to. And I have to remember who God is. And so then I'm looking back up. And that is what I think is just the real life of worship for the believer. And so I think that's captured in this record. It was trying to just keep people in a posture of going, like, jesus is good. My favorite line on the whole record is a moment that was spontaneous.

[Christian]

Okay.

[Hope Darce]

So I really cannot take credit for it. I should have credited the Holy Spirit for this one. But it's this part. It's spontaneous in. I wanna say it's give me Jesus. I could be wrong. There's several spontaneous moments, but it just says, remember all of the reasons you said yes to Jesus.

[Christian]

Wow.

[Hope Darce]

Yeah. And I think that that was the heart of the record. I wanted a record that would remind people of all the reasons that they fell in love with Jesus and to remember all the reasons why you believe he is who he is, and to remember all of the reasons why he is your healer, he is your savior, he is your rescuer, he is your hope, he is your peace. Like I just wanted for that person that believes and needs a reminder or for that person who's like, I don't know what I believe about God anymore, that it would just ignite, maybe that fire that has gone out or is like just the tiniest little ember, and it would be like, just a way to a fire starter back in their hearts to be like, oh, wait, yeah, like, yeah, I do remember what that was like when I encountered God for the first time, and he was real to me, and, like, I can get back there.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Hope Darce]

You know?

[Christian]

So this conversation's been fantastic. I love it.

[Hope Darce]

It's so good you asked. Good question.

[Christian]

I feel like we're having a conversation, but you're also talking to a million worship leaders that need to hear some truth from you and need to hear some of this wisdom. So I'm gonna ask you two more questions, but this question is, if you were talking to those worship leaders who are serving in local churches who are going through all the experience that, you know, they go through all the things and they're going through it, and you could sit down with them rather than with me and look at them in their eyes, what would you say to them? What is God saying to you at the moment that you would speak into their life?

[Hope Darce]

I think so much of it is kind of, in some ways, talking to my younger self. And some of the things that I wish I would have understood when I first got into ministry, that I think still applies whether you've been doing this for 30 years or whether you've been doing this for three months. Right. Like, is to really take the time to learn the voice of the Holy Spirit. Because going back to what we were talking about earlier, it's really hard to love the church well, as a worship leader, as pastor, as a shepherd, as a discipler, as a songwriter, if you don't know the voice of God, because there are so many moments, and I think anyone, any pastor would say this, that you are sitting across from the table, you're discipling someone, or you're prepping a sermon, or you're in a service and you're asking the Lord for, like, what's the key? Like, what is the key in this moment to unlock something in this atmosphere that allows people to see you, God, for who you are, to hear the truth of your word, to actually go beyond their flesh and their natural thinking and suddenly come into alignment with, like, the actual Spirit of God and the truth of your Word and all those things, you're constantly going, like, holy Spirit, what Is it? And it means in a moment, like, are you willing to, like, stop and pray? Are you willing to. I know we had that song planned, but can we shift and move to this song? It also means, like, off the stage, like, wait, Dot. I need to pick up the phone and call that person. Wait. We need to rethink how we're building team. I don't know if our team's healthy in this season. We need to go back. It allows you to no longer think that you have the blueprint on how to do this well, and it makes you dependent on. On the one who is the master blueprint creator. And the thing is, I say that because there is no church, there's no worship leader, there's no worship team that's ever the same. And so God has put me in one house in Nashville, Tennessee, and he puts me in different churches across the country, and he sits me in certain writing rooms. And I have to know the voice of the Lord so well that I know how to show up and have the right posture to hear from the Lord in that place for that moment. And I think I see so many people trying to replicate someone else's blueprint in hopes that that will be the thing that unlocks something in their church or something in their songwriting or something in their leadership. And I'm just here to tell you, I spent a good long decade trying to do that, and all that did was leave me insecure, running on fumes with tons of fear of man striving, being performance oriented. And not only was it not life giving to the people around me, it was sucking the life out of me because I didn't understand my life source. And it was a real pivotal moment for me to go like, oh, I actually have to practice learning the voice of the Holy Spirit. So practically, for every worship leader out there, you start by reading your Bible. That is the voice of the Lord. So just start there. Like, literally. I don't care if you're on staff. I don't care if you're a volunteer, whatever it is, just go read your Bible as a discipline. And the more you do it, you don't have to feel butterflies. You don't even have to sit there and read till you get Revelation. Just go read your Bible every single day and then sit and just wait for the Lord to just maybe share something, speak something to you, lay something on your heart, journal it for a second. Then you go kind of past that. It's in your everyday life, in your kitchen, in your laundry room, in your car. Whatever it is, I just have a conversation with the Holy Spirit. I'll just be like, jesus, I'm here. Is there anything you wanna say today? Holy Spirit, what are you doing today? How can I. Sometimes I'm saying that out loud. Sometimes I'm just saying it in my head and in my heart. And then it's. The third step is you have to actually act on what you feel like the Lord is actually saying. And it starts in baby steps, right? So it might just mean, like, going and praying for someone, like, or picking up the phone and calling someone. And I'm saying all this because all of these things build to. Then when you are actually in the place of ministering, you've already learned the voice of the Holy Spirit in your everyday life. He is a part of your life. So that when you're actually ministering and you're in tandem, like, we want to minister with him, you know his voice and you know how to move, you know how to rearrange, you know how to minister to people. Because you're not being led by what you think you should be doing. You're being led by a cultivated relationship with the Holy Spirit. And I think so often we try to do this life, ministry, songwriting, pastoring, all of it on our own, apart from Him. And the Bible is very clear that, like, apart from the Holy Spirit, we don't have the power to do any of this. We actually have to lean on him. Not as, like, some scriptures say, it's like a dove or a fire or a wind, but like an actual part of the Godhead that wants to be in relationship with us, wants to teach us how to move and operate in ways that really do show up and minister to people. Because I'm telling you, I can just think of so many times, and he's been like, pick up the phone. Go call that person and say, this. And I'm like, that sounds crazy, but I do it. And all of a sudden that person's weeping and they're like, you have no idea. I was just praying with the Lord about that, and da, da, da. And then I'm able to step in and pray with them and minister, it then makes me go, okay, I do hear you. Like, I know what you say, and I obey. So now when I'm going and I'm leading worship and I feel the Holy Spirit saying, hey, I know this was your plan, but I want you to sing How Great Thou Art instead or linger here, and I want you to just wait, and I want you to sing out in The Spirit or. Or when I'm building that set list and I cannot shake that there's a certain song for that season. I'm doing it not because I'm trying to be great. I'm doing it because I'm leaning in and learning the voice of the Holy Spirit so that I can be a good minister of the gospel to people around me.

[Christian]

It's a fantastic answer. And it doesn't surprise me that having sat here for, I don't know, four hours, whatever it may, I'm talking to you, it doesn't surprise me that you answer. Because I think the thread for a whole conversation is there's calling and there's character. And when you're calling, you a character match up, and that's your prayer, God, accelerate me through this character building time to match the calling you got for me. There's private and there's public. And it's like, my public's not gonna be different than my private. And what I win here in that private place is what I get to do in public. And it doesn't surprise me that that's your story and your record.

[Hope Darce]

I mean, I don't know if you may disagree that I just think we're way too focused on the title of jobs that we have, especially within the church. And we're less focused on the fact that, like, I don't care if your job is working at Starbucks, if your job is HR at multitracks, if your job is running cameras, which you guys are doing great job, or if your job happens to be being a pastor or a songwriter or worship leader, that's the job and the lane with which God has asked you to do the scripture that we were talking about earlier of that in everything I'm doing, I'm doing for the glory of God. And I just think for too long we've had this upside down. We have been so focused on how do we grow your leadership in this role instead of actually how do you become a great disciple of Christ. I think that is the thing that gets too detached. And it's like, actually, if I just run after Jesus, it's funny how he says, like, seek ye first and all things will be added. He's saying, if you will live this way where, like, you actually are pursuing honoring me in everything that you do. Like, if that's the posture of your heart, then no matter what I've called you to do, it will be fruitful and it will be fruit that remains. And I think so many people are just chasing after fruit and they just want a life that looks fruitful and they just want a vineyard that has a harvest, but they have no idea. Like, you gotta go plant seeds and toil the ground and you've gotta. Sometimes you plant certain seeds that don't harvest for years, like, and it's not a one time thing. Did you know that at the end of one harvest season, you gotta go do it all over it? And I just think what I want to see is the church stop focusing so much on how to be a great worship leader and how to be a great songwriter and how to be a great leader. And it's like, how do we just, like, actually love God well and honor him in everything that we do so that then the things that we actually do just are pouring out from that place. The world's hungry for it because they're looking like, why are you any different? I can go learn great leadership over here. I can learn great songwriting over here. Brian Tedder has a great podcast about songwriting. Their souls are hungry for something that is different than what the world has to offer. And if our thing that we have to offer is that when we pursue Christ with everything that we have, it changes us from the inside out. And we look different, we smell different, we act different. We choose generosity when it would be easy to be selfish. We choose humility when it would be easy to be entitled. We choose sacrifice when it would be easy to just take it all and not give up it. Like, we choose to live the narrow road and people actually are starving to figure out what the narrow road is. And we have the answer. And me being a worship leader is not that answer, but me being the woman who walks in humility and kindness and the fruits of the spirit to everyone that I encounter, that is the answer. And it will inform my ability to be a better worship leader and to be a better discipler and hopefully to be a better podcast guest. All the things, right? Like a better mom, a better like. And I just. That's the thing that I'm hungry for.

[Christian]

Love it.

[Hope Darce]

I think it changes everything.

[Christian]

Hope, thank you so much. Thanks for being real and for sharing and just for being so generous with who you are. It's been amazing. You're gonna sing a couple of songs.

[Hope Darce]

They are. We are.

[Christian]

What two songs are you gonna sing? And what do you need us to know about those songs before we hear them?

[Hope Darce]

We're obviously gonna sing mighty names.

[Christian]

Fantastic.

[Hope Darce]

I mean, I just love this song. It's actually been really cool. I've written songs in the past where I Felt like maybe I hadn't done a great job of the art of melodies, of ensuring, like, melodies were really singable, whether you were a soprano, an alto, a tenor, whatever, you know, as I've like, kind of lived in this space and cared more about, like, how do I serve the church well versus just. Well, that's easy for me to sing. Right? You know, it's been really cool to see this song that both men and women and no matter kind of your range, it's been a song that's been easy for people to lead. It's actually been really nice for me to lead. I mean, coming off the heels of Peace Be still, that song is hard, y'.

[Christian]

All.

[Hope Darce]

So it is kind of nice that I finally have a song. Like, Even if it's 6 o' clock in the morning, I can still sing this one. So that's been really great. And I obviously, I just. I love the song for all the reasons that I shared. And then I thought we would do youo Can.

[Christian]

Great.

[Hope Darce]

I really loved this song. Obviously I wrote it for my daughter, but every time I've done it live, it just. It somehow has had the ability to like, cut through the room and just like, meet people who feel like they're in really impossible situations and to infuse some. Some hope back into them that, like, hey, we have a God that can do the impossible. Like, what is impossible with man is still possible with God. And like, just don't give up yet. Like, don't stop trusting, don't stop believing. So, yeah, I thought we would do both of those.

[Christian]

Fantastic.

[Hope Darce]

Yeah.

[Christian]

You're awesome.

[Hope Darce]

You're awesome. Thank you.

[Christian]

Really great stuff. Thank you.

[Hope Darce]

I pray into the atmosphere.

[Backing Vocalist]

Spirit of God, you're here. You have all authority. I pray over my heart and mind. I am healed by your stripes. Your blood declares that I am free. In the mighty name of Jesus I pray. Calling on the power of of heaven I proclaim that every weapon formed against me you must break. In the mighty name of Jesus.

[Hope Darce]

And I draw a permanent boundary line.

[Backing Vocalist]

The enemy has has no rights to come oh near my family. Cause no scheme could ever run through God's plans.

[Hope Darce]

No matter the circumstance.

[Backing Vocalist]

The cross has sealed my destiny. Oh in the mighty name of Jesus I faith calling on the power of heaven, I proclaim that every weapon formed against me it must pray in the mighty name of Jesus. Cause in the mighty name of Jesus oh I know oh all the power of fear and darkness it must go. Cuz every key to every victory. Oh I hope in the mighty Name of Jesus I will not fear. I will not fear when the enemy comes near on the door frame of my life is the blood of Jesus Christ. No, I will not fear. I will not fear. There's an army of angels here. I'm protected on all sides by the blood of Jesus Christ.

[Hope Darce]

No army.

[Backing Vocalist]

I will not fear. I will not fear when the enemy comes here oh, on the door frame of my whole life is the blood of Jesus Christ. Though I will not fear, I will not fear. There's an army of angels here I'm protected on all sides by the blood of Jesus. In the mighty name of Jesus I pray. Calling on the power of heaven I proclaim that every weapon form against me it must break. In the mighty name of Jesus, Jesus. It's in the mighty name of Jesus I still know that all the power of fear and darkness must go Is every key to every victory. Oh, I hope in the mighty days my of Jesus it's in the mighty name of Jesus it's in the mighty name of Jesus. God, I know all the stories, your

[Hope Darce]

miracles, wonder signs and right now I'm calling on you for the same in my life. No matter what things look like and no matter what's been said,

[Backing Vocalist]

I'm standing on every promise.

[Hope Darce]

I'm counting on this. I'm counting on this.

[Backing Vocalist]

If anyone can save me, you, you can. If anyone can heal me, you can make a way when they say that it can't be done. If anyone can, you can. I know you can. You are the Lord Almighty power is in your hands. So even when fear comes knocking, I'll tell it again and again and again. If anyone can save me, you, you can. If anyone can heal me, you can make a way. When they say that it can't be done. If anyone can, you can. When no one else can fix it, you can. And work it off of my good you, you can make a way when they say that it can't be done. If anyone can, you can, you can. Oh, I know you can. I believe, I believe, I still believe you can do anything. I believe, I believe, I still believe you can do anything. I believe, I believe, I still believe you get to it anything. Oh, you can do anything. Yes, you can do anything. If anyone can save me, you can. If anyone can heal me, you can make a way when they say that it can't be if anyone can, I know you can. When no one else can fix it, you still can. Working on for my good you can make a way when they say that it can't be done. If anyone can, you can. If anyone can, you can.