Ep. 101: Brooke Lundquist, PhD, LMHC - Advocating for Mental Health

Summary

Podcast Summary

Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table

Episode 101: Brooke Lundquist, PhD, LMHC – Advocating for Mental Health
Host: Berlin Maza
Date: July 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode marks the start of a new direction for the podcast, now dubbed “Honest Conversations at the Kitchen Table.” Host Berlin Maza is joined by Dr. Brooke Lundquist, a licensed mental health counselor specializing in first responder wellness. The discussion centers on integrating mental health into first responder culture, challenging long-standing stigmas, and actionable strategies to build psychological resilience in high-stress professions like firefighting. Dr. Lundquist offers a candid perspective from her 25-year journey alongside—and within—the fire service family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolution of Mental Health in First Responder Culture

• Changing Attitudes:
  Dr. Lundquist and the host discuss how mental health has gradually shifted from a taboo subject to a vital element of organizational wellness. Leadership buy-in is pivotal for program success (08:38).

  • “I see the expectations don’t have to be lowered for people to also be human... these are not mutually exclusive. You don’t have to either be tough or be human and vulnerable. Both can exist.” (32:02 | Dr. Lundquist)

• Systemic Barriers:
  Where leadership is skeptical, mental health support is often fragmented or hidden. Where it is prioritized, it’s woven into day-to-day operations (10:09).

2. Building Trust and Normalization

• Embedded Mental Health Professionals:
  Dr. Lundquist shares how her hands-on approach—station visits, ride-alongs, informal coffee chats—breaks down barriers and builds trust (11:31).

  • “Thankfully, I had this great opportunity at the agencies I’m a part of to spend a lot of my first year just doing ride alongs, station visits, coffee with the crews... to create the camaraderie and the rapport.” (12:03 | Dr. Lundquist)

• Normalization through Repetition:
  Regular presence and training sessions have rendered her presence and mental health conversations routine, not exceptional (19:27).

3. Metrics and Patience in Program Implementation

• Intangible Outcomes:
  Unlike traditional programs judged by hard metrics, mental health initiatives often lack immediate, quantifiable results. Leadership patience and trust in confidentiality are critical for success (20:46).

  • “People have to believe that I’m going to keep what they talk to me about confidential. And I am... they just trust what I’m doing.” (20:46 | Dr. Lundquist)

• Feedback Loops:
  Regular, anonymous surveys help fine-tune programs and assess readiness/accessibility without compromising privacy (22:41).

4. Early and Continuous Integration

• From Academy to Retirement:
  Programs now reach recruits before drill ground exposure, continuing through probation, active duty, and even into retirement transition (24:10, 28:56).

  • “I use this analogy of a pressure cooker... my belief is that now that we know so much more and we’re doing better in this realm of mental health, people are starting to offload that steam gradually as they go.” (24:10 | Dr. Lundquist)

• Actionable Early Advice:
  New recruits are encouraged, “Find a therapist before you need one.” (27:44 | Dr. Lundquist)

5. Addressing Cultural Resistance and Stigma

• Challenging the “Toughness” Myth:
  Host and guest discuss ongoing tensions: the belief that toughness precludes vulnerability, especially for new recruits and in academy settings (31:48-33:31).

  • “The expectations don’t have to be lowered for people to also be human… both can exist.” (32:02 | Dr. Lundquist)

• Leadership and Vulnerability as Culture Shifters:
  Leaders who model openness—sharing their own experiences—help normalize mental health support at all organizational levels (43:59).

6. Holistic & Innovative Approaches

• Company Officer Academy:
  Progressive agencies offer week-long holistic development for leaders, combining tactics with nutrition, breathwork, and significant mental health components (35:40).

  • “It’s become very holistic. All of those pieces matter in addition to your tactics and how you’re going to run your crew.” (35:40 | Dr. Lundquist)

• Facility Dog “Raider”:
  Raider, a service dog, enhances both proactive and reactive support, lowering physiological stress and offering comfort to those less inclined to talk (39:30-42:55).

  • “He’s trained in several different things that provide physiological lowering of heart rate, lowering of blood pressure...a great bridge for people.” (41:00 | Dr. Lundquist)

7. Gaps, Growth, and Constructive Feedback

• Feedback Integration:
  Concerns or suggestions from members are treated with curiosity and respect instead of defensiveness (45:35).

  • “Thank you so much for trusting me... help me figure out how to do that.” (45:35 | Dr. Lundquist)

• Bridging Knowledge Gaps:
  When leadership resistance is encountered (rare in progressive agencies, Dr. Lundquist notes), she seeks a collaborative middle ground and continuous communication with the membership and administration (46:46-49:29).

• Specialized Training (e.g., death notification):
  Practical, research-informed training (e.g., “Conversations with Compassion”) fills unaddressed needs and is now embedded in departmental manuals (47:01).

8. Action Items and Closing Advice

• Action for Emerging Leaders:

  • Leadership is not about rank; anyone can set the tone through their words and vulnerability (52:28).
  • “How they talk about calls, even how they talk about patients, matters... openness to being vulnerable, I really do believe, changes the culture.” (52:28 | Dr. Lundquist)

• For Those Facing Resistance:

  • Continue modeling vulnerability, and find alternative spaces (e.g., outside therapy, peer network) to be authentically open (54:33).
  • “Continue doing it to a level that feels comfortable... it’s planting those seeds. And when one of those members has a hard time, my guess is that that might be the first person they go to.” (54:33 | Dr. Lundquist)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Changing Culture:
  “Leadership trust in this work, I’m so grateful, because without that we wouldn’t be where we’re at.” (16:08 | Dr. Lundquist)
• On Measuring Impact:
  “There aren’t measurable outcomes... we can’t say like, oh, this number of people ended up not calling in sick to work because they’ve got good mental health support...” (20:46 | Dr. Lundquist)
• On Early Intervention:
  “Find a therapist before you need one, because unfortunately by the time you need one, there’s a wait list.” (27:44 | Dr. Lundquist)
• On Facility Dogs:
  “He does a lot of proactive work... people are just ecstatic to see him because they work 48s, they might be away from their dog... it feels like a sense of home.” (39:30 | Dr. Lundquist)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:53] – Dr. Lundquist’s background and entry into first responder mental health
• [08:38] – Status of mental health integration, systemic challenges
• [11:31] – What proactive engagement in fire agencies looks like
• [19:27] – Culture shift: Not waiting for “metrics” before supporting mental health
• [24:10] – Developing programs for new recruits, “Pressure cooker” analogy
• [31:48] – Addressing “toughen up” mindset in academy culture
• [35:40] – Company Officer Leadership Academy and holistic wellness
• [39:30] – Facility dog “Raider’s” role and impact
• [45:35] – Handling gaps: Listening, curiosity, action
• [47:01] – Example: Implementing death notification training
• [52:28] – Advice to young/emerging leaders on culture change and vulnerability
• [54:33] – Guidance for members facing unsupportive cultures

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Closing & Contact Information

• Resource for Consultation:
  Dr. Lundquist invites listeners and agencies to connect for guidance on building similar support programs.
  • “First Responder Counseling and Consulting, five clinicians working with first responders and their families.” (56:47)
  • Email: firstrespondercounselingmail.com
  • Direct Cell: 425-327-2859

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Final Takeaways

• The fire service is experiencing a culture change—mental health support is gaining ground, but requires intentional leadership, persistent normalization, and innovative solutions.
• Progress is possible when feedback is welcomed, confidentiality is prioritized, and early intervention is the norm, not the exception.
• Vulnerability at all levels—especially among leaders—remains the most effective vehicle for lasting organizational transformation.

Transcript

[A]

I do see that a shift is happening, at least the areas that I'm involved with. I see the expectations don't have to be lowered for people to also be human. Right. And I think that's what we're seeing is like these are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to either be tough or be human and vulnerable. Right. Both can exist. And I would just challenge, obviously those who are instructors to see how they can hold that balance, caring about their people while still holding a high standard. And I believe that people really remember that academy experience, some for good, some not for, you know, some for bad. And so as those leaders, who do you want to be remembered as.

[B]

Being rescued from a three story apartment building? The First Responder Liaison Network is proud to present to you the Kitchen Table Podcast. Join us as we explore leadership from perspectives around the globe. From firefighters to fire chiefs, civilians to CEOs, our conversations have one simple goal. Build more leaders. Today is episode 101 of the Leadership Conversations at the Kitchen table podcast. After 100 episodes, I'm going to take the show for a spin and start calling it Honest Conversations at the Kitchen Table. We're going to dive deep into some tough questions, perhaps some tough questions that aren't asked and perhaps some that maybe need to be asked but oftentimes aren't. So as we dive into leadership conversations moving forward, I'm going to disagree or take an opposite stance on a topic or on certain parts of a discussion with our guest so we can explore it from a different perspective. The best ideas and the best solutions don't necessarily come from defending what we already believe, but instead from challenging them. So today we're going to ask the why the why not and let's start looking at topics from the flip side I call it. So thank you today for tuning in to the revamp of the Kitchen Table. Our guest today is Dr. Brooke Lundquist. She is a licensed mental health counselor who specializes in working with first responder individuals and couples. She's been part of the fire Service family for 25 years as her husband has served in a variety of roles in the fire service. Brooke owns a consulting a group consulting practice, First Responder Counseling and Consulting where her team provides therapy to first responders and their families. Brooke is also the on site mental health professional for Redmond Fire Department, Bellevue Fire Department and paramedic training at Harbor B Medical Center. She is trained in EMDR Gottman Couples Therapy and is a certified first responder counselor. Good afternoon Brooke. Thank you for being a guest Today on episode 101. How are you?

[A]

I'm well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me and for expanding what you're doing to touch the mental health field.

[B]

Absolutely. And that's going to be perhaps the biggest and most exciting part of today is this is a topic that we need to keep having. And I love how you said expanding because it is expanding. I'm sure 20 years ago we started talking about mental health, and, you know, 10 years go by, we're still talking about it, but we're talking about it in different ways. And here we are, you know, 20, 26. Mental health looks very different today than it did 20 years ago. So I'm honored to have someone that specializes in this work because we need to keep having this conversation.

[A]

Absolutely. And I'm really grateful for it because I see the need and people are more open to it, certainly than they have been in the past.

[B]

Absolutely. So before I ask the first question, would you mind just diving a little bit into, you know, the work that you do and, you know, why it's so. Why it's so special and so important?

[A]

Absolutely, yeah. So my background. I met my husband, Ryan, when he was actually on probation 25 years ago. So I have seen a variety of roles over the past couple decades through a personal experience, and also have been able to support him in his own journey through this profession. My original kind of profession in this field of counseling was as a professor. I actually taught other counselors in training for about 18 years before segueing into first responder mental health and really found the teaching role to be very satisfying and purposeful. And then as I got myself back into the counseling field, this area of first responders just is so near and dear to my heart that I transitioned away from higher ed a few years back, and I'm fully in the field of first responder mental health now.

[B]

Wow, that's awesome. You taught other counselors? Yeah, and I wrote an article and it was actually about teaching other teachers, if you will. It was about before becoming a really, really good instructor, you have to have gone through some sort of instructor school, if you will. And that subject matter expertise or simply getting education or getting a degree sometimes isn't good enough to teach something. So I want to stay there for a minute. So how did teaching or. Or having the ability to teach others in the profession help you, first of all get a better understanding of mental health itself, but also help you be able to become a better teacher and counselor yourself?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I think those two, the teaching and the application inform Each other very well. Right. So I was in this teaching role, but I was finding I wasn't having as much time to do the counseling work. And so as I got back out there and got into the field, I realized how much that informed my teaching. And as I'm sure you're aware, where if we're going to teach something, we really have to know it well. And so that has been the biggest educator for me is learning how to teach other people. And that's something I've carried into the first responder mental health world with me is this teaching aspect. So I get the opportunity to educate on mental health topics now within the fire service versus for other counselors. But I still do have a mentorship role within the counseling field with therapists at my practice and even those outside of here. So I find it to be very rewarding to help mentor and raise up our next level of. Of counselors.

[B]

Absolutely. I mean, but is knowledge enough? You know what I mean? Like, like the ability to teach, the ability to understand, I mean, let's just call it like learning theory, you know, adult learning theory, the ability to connect with audience, all that is important. Right. Versus just having simple knowledge. So how important do you find that. That for people, people that you mentor will say, or people that are in your practice, that, that they understand that having knowledge is important, but also having the ability to be a good teacher is also important and how they go hand in hand with each other?

[A]

Absolutely. I think one of the biggest things I found through my time in the professor role was how valuable my students experience. Even though I am the quote unquote expert in this field, they bring in so much value, especially teaching adults. Right. They have life experience, they have their own lived experience. And so seeking feedback myself on how is this being received. And that was one of the great things, being a professor. I got evaluations every semester, very humbling. But also gave me the opportunity to fine tune my teaching approach over the course of decades into what really fits this population. What are they looking for? How do I become relatable and open to that feedback so that I can best meet their needs. And so I think that openness to feedback, checking in with even my supervisees about are you getting what you need? What else can we provide you? And really valuing their experience in addition to my own in the process.

[B]

I want to lean on that a little bit later because I love that topic, but I want to dive into our current topic and then maybe circle back on that. So the integration of mental health within first Responder agencies starts at the leadership level. So my first question to start is where are we in the integration of mental health and first responder agencies?

[A]

Yeah, that's a great question. I feel like I have the honor of being in a pretty progressive agencies in my area that are very much integrating mental health as a priority. And so I think there's a range, right? There's a range from where I think we're really kind of trying to figure out front runners, like how do we develop these programs to be really efficient and effective for departments all the way down to what is this, what does this look like, how do we find people to come in and support our members? And so, um, thankfully the departments I'm a part of, I feel like we're very progressive in that there's a great belief in this work and in how to integrate that in as a norm within the department rather than having it be kind of this outside thing. It's very much integrated in with the culture.

[B]

Yeah, well, you said something important. You said belief, like the, the leadership. There's a belief, there's a culture of belief. So how important is it to have that belief? We'll say, to have programs such as mental health and other programs to be integrated into a department, we'll say. And then secondly, is that where it starts? Because why I ask that is if there's no belief in the, you know, we'll say leadership or there's no culture, how can we get over that hump and say, you know, we need to prioritize programs such as mental health, but if the culture doesn't buy into it, are we just in trouble?

[A]

Right. I think it very much is systemic where if a leadership maybe doesn't believe in this, people have to kind of go their own way. They've got to figure out their own resources, they've got to do their own work to find a counselor or resources in the mental health field. And maybe sometimes that also feels more hidden because it's not this openly spoken about topic that's integrated into the day to day. I mean, I thankfully get to be integrated into the day to day operations of a few fire departments as whether it's proactive, checking in with people, being a presence, creating relationships or reactive critical incidents, personal challenges people are facing, and being a support on that end. I really believe it does start with the leadership level and that we have so much push with that to say, hey, people at our agency, this is important, we believe in this and we're gonna support this not only time wise, but Financially as well, to show you how important you are to us. Kind of that people first mentality.

[B]

Absolutely. So you said you're integrated in the day to day, proactive and reactive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So can you elaborate on that? Because I, I'll be full disclosure here. I don't, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what that looks like.

[A]

Absolutely. So I have a couple of the agencies I'm a part of. I do regular station visits. One of the departments, I'm there two days a week and I hit two different shifts and I rotate around to the stations. I get an opportunity to see what the daily schedule looks like, who's training where, and I get the roster and so I'm able to kind of take a look at the day and say, hey, where could I be most useful? I know this person had a rough call last set. I know this training is going on and I could hit a few crews there. So I kind of create my day or half a day sometimes around what does the schedule look like, what do I know about these people? And thankfully I had this great opportunity at the agencies I'm a part of to spend a lot of my first year just doing ride alongs, station visits, coffee with the crews, going to pick up dinner, whatever that looked like, to create the camaraderie and the rapport with these people that where I, when I show up, usually people don't run the other way because it's not always, it's not always like, oh, something bad's happened. It's like, this is just, this is just how we roll. I just go check in. I just say, hi, follow up. Hey, how was your vacation? Or hey, I just wanted to follow up. I heard about that call last week. So it's very much just a part of our culture that I'm mingling around or I pop into a medic meeting or I head over to city hall and say hi to Prevention or I'm out at mcos. So it's just like this great normalization that's happened within our culture.

[B]

Now you work for two departments that neighbor my fire department.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had no idea that you're doing this. So my question is, when did this begin in those two departments? Yeah, but also how, how receptive was it early and then now compared to now receptive by the members? We'll say, sure, yeah.

[A]

So I've started, I started with Redmond about five years ago and Bellevue a couple of years ago. And you know, at first it was a lot of that relationship building. It was just being able to hang with people, being able to go on calls and have them see, like, I can be here. I can support you in this. I understand some of the things. Of course I'm not boots on the ground, but I definitely have this desire to get to know more of people's experience. So, you know, I would say I was welcomed very well at the beginning, but I would say that the relationships are much deeper now. I would say that if and when something happens, I feel pretty confident that a good majority of the people at the agencies would feel like they could reach out to me for support, whether for themselves or we do provide resources for their families too, because we know all of that's intertwined with their wellness overall. Wow.

[B]

That's, that's, that's, that's awesome. I don't know how else to say but that I love that. So where else are we seeing this? Like, like I said, you're my neighboring fire department and I didn't even know. Do many fire departments are you finding have these programs where they'll have, you know, mental health professional on site, you know, available to the members, you know, whether it be five days a week, three days a week, whatever. Are you seeing a lot? A little. Are we still only like on a small percentage? What are we at?

[A]

We're growing, thankfully. I've heard of a couple more agencies in the most recent months that are, are looking to bring people on to provide some sort of support. Whether it's just reactive, that's, that's a good place to start. Right. Where you at least have someone to go to if, if and when something comes up for a member that they either have space at their practice that they'll, you know, keep open for your people, or they'll come in and do some peer support trainings or be your MHP over your peer support team, which is pretty essential too. Right. So we see kind of a range of integration of mental health professionals within agencies and it's becoming more and more especially as people are seeing this reduces barriers. People don't have to cold call, they don't have to figure out who, who can handle hearing about my traumas at work. Who knows what shift work impacts at home and at work. Right. This, this idea of what we talk about, cultural competence, where we get it, we, we understand the, the complexities of the first responder professions. Yeah. And that's rare. I think that's the other tricky piece is that there's not a ton of us out there doing this work. So it's a, it's hard to find people that fit into that culture pretty seamlessly.

[B]

Who brought you in to Redmond and to Bellevue?

[A]

Yeah, so I was given an opportunity from a previous group practice that I worked at that worked with first responders to be introduced. And then through creating those relationships, the, you know, down the road contracts were created and we were, as those relationships grew, you know, personality fit wise was good. It seemed like there was an openness. I've had fantastic support from the leadership at the agencies to really believe in this work and to trust that I'm going to go and find the gaps and fill them or I'm going to go and meet with the people. I'm not just waiting for people to knock on my door. I'm going and trying to meet them out at their trainings or meet them out at their stations so that it removes those barriers to them having to reach out. And so the belief that the leadership has in this work, I'm, I'm so grateful because without that we wouldn't, we wouldn't be where we're at.

[B]

That's awesome. Well, later we'll touch base to see how we could, you know, start the conversation going east a little bit more. That sounds absolutely amazing. So first challenging question, I guess maybe it's an easy question for someone like yourself, but what have you experienced where you'll come into a fire station and whether it be proactively or after a tough call and the crew's just like, nope, I, I don't. You don't want you here, don't need you here. You know, if so what was that like? And how do you get over those barriers?

[A]

Yeah, you know what, One of the, I feel like I've had multiple beneficial things in entering this one is that I, I kind of get a foot in the door because I'm in the family, because I have a little bit of that knowledge and, and some relatability in that way. So I don't feel like anyone's ever just kind of cold shouldered me or turned away. The other piece is when I started this role, I was not in. I was not reacting to calls, I wasn't responding to critical incidents. I was just creating relationships. So it was a non threatening approach. Right. It was just, hey, I just want to ride along. Can I hop in your medic unit? And I was on the schedule, so it was basically like kind of assigned, like, hey, Brooke's going to be here. And I would rotate and I did every station, every shift that first year and I would ride along for several hours and I'd get to know people, not only who they were at work, but who they were outside of work. What's their family like, what do they like to do in their spare time? And those are things that I've kind of locked away so that I can check in. Hey, have you guys been on any of your family bike trips recently? Or, hey, how'd your mom's surgery go? Right. So the relationships created at the beginning created this open door for me to, to, to be more received, well received, because it wasn't, I wasn't showing up always to, to check in on people or, you know, and again, we've had multiple other things at our departments that have really normalized this idea of mental health. So we incorporate regular quarterly training. So just like hazmat has a section or, or, you know, physical fitness has a section, we have a mental health quarterly training component that goes into Vector. It's a part of all of our departmental kind of correspondence. So they all get this. Whether it's an article or a resource list. It's normalized because it's just integrated in with our culture.

[B]

Wow. I mean, that's, it's. The more I'm hearing, this is more. It's like, why haven't we been doing this sooner and why aren't more doing this? So it sounds like it really took time, you know, intentional like. Right. It wasn't like, because we'll say this, whether it be a mental health program, whether it be any other program in the fire service or in first responder agencies, a lot of it's like very outcome based. Like, you know, we start this program or we're going to hire somebody, or we're going to do X and it's budgeted for a year and there needs to be like, outcomes. There needs to be some kind of metric. And, and if that metric is not there after that budget cycle or, you know, eight months or a year and a half, whatever it may be, it's like, you know what? We're not seeing the, the return on investment.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But with something like this, two things. It's. I don't think that would have worked right for you to just get in there, hey, we got this new program and bam, from day one, you're very reactive. You're in on all the calls. You need people to speak up. It was very patient driven, like, patient, like patience. But there was a commitment again to, to the leadership in just getting that full, we'll call it transparency of like this is going to take time and we're going to spend a year of being very patient and not worry about the metric at the end of 12 months or so forth. Right. Would you say that's accurate?

[A]

That's so accurate. And that's one of the hardest things about this field I find, is that we, because everything is confidential and that's essential in the work I do. Right. People have to believe that I'm going to keep what they talk to me about confidential. And I am. And again, kudos to my leadership at these agencies that I've never been asked a question that has even like made me have to like hold back or maybe even have to draw a boundary. They just trust what I'm doing. And so people trust me, I think, because that has not been breached. Right. And so I make it very clear that if people see me in my practice it for therapy, no one at the department will ever know that unless they share that information. That's not my story to share. And so, you know, I think that again, kudos to the leadership for trusting this, this program because there aren't measurable outcomes. We can't say like, oh, this number of people ended up not calling in sick to work because they've got good mental health support or they didn't retire early because they had good mental health support. So there's. It's really hard to measure. The one thing that I do measure every couple of years, I do send out a peer support survey where we get feedback on our peer support team. And then I add a couple of questions about my role. Just how helpful has it been? Have you reached out, what's that been like to give us a little bit of an idea of growth areas. First of all, we want to know how we can continue to serve our people. But also what's our usage like? Do people feel like they can reach out and it's well utilized. People trust. And again, it's because of this belief that the administration has in the work we're doing because there's not provable outcomes or financial beneficial data points to show how useful this is.

[B]

And that's what's so also, that's so very, I don't even want to say the word frustrating, but challenging because yeah, you're right, we don't have a metric and said, you know, we have X amount of firefighters that used X amount less sick leave because they had this and they would have used X plus this had we not had this service. Right, right. And so, I mean, I'm sure there's evidence, right? There's. I'm sure there's evidence out there that shows that firefighters, first responders, that there's a higher rate of things like whether it be ptsd, depression, anxiety, burnout, whatever, with mandatory overtimes, you know, more workload, whatever. But at the same time, with these programs, are you seeing that this is keeping that in check, if you will? Because, like, I would say from a graph, and I know people can't see us, but, like, the amount of stuff that we're exposed to, right, Whether it be trauma, whether it be mandatory overtimes, whether it be over, you know, overwork, you know, not enough personnel, you know, whatever it may be, like, there's just so much more exposure, I would say, compared to 30 years ago. And that are these programs only keeping us in check? Meaning, like, are we really seeing any kind of, like, reduction? And if we're in check, that's still okay because it's stopping us from in this upward trajectory of, you know, increased suicide rates, depression, anxiety, whatever you call it, whatever you want to call it. But. But we also need to try to find a way to decrease the amount of, you know, I'll just use the easy word of bad stuff happening to the members.

[A]

Like, you know, one of the biggest platforms that I have been given access to is the academy is our probationary firefighters, our entry level people who are just starting in this profession. And so this all ties back around to what you're talking about because I am a strong believer that I use this analogy of a pressure cooker, right? We all come into our professions, our lives, with something in our pressure cooker, and over the course of the career, especially in the fire service, right, you're adding to that pressure cooker, and maybe you're doing some things that offload some steam from time to time. But my belief, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, because you've been in the field, but is that historically it's been, well, you keep that stuff in the pressure cooker and you just shove it down and you keep going. And my belief is that now that we know so much more and we're doing better in this realm of mental health, that people are starting to offload that steam gradually as they go, therefore not walking into retirement ready to pop, right? And so my belief, and I have been so, so grateful to be integrated in from pre academy to the family orientation night, where I give a. You know, I'm giving them a family resource list that has all the things I wish I would have had 25 years ago about what does this fire service life look like to. I get a two hour chunk of their EMT class to talk about the impacts of mental health in the fire service before they're even hitting the drill ground. So this is like integrated in as awareness, strategies, resources. And then I get opportunities to just go check in at lunchtime. I pop in at lunch, well, we can talk more about my, my trusty sidekick, my facility dog, who also is a great avenue into connecting with people. But I take him around at lunch and he, the recruits just get to, you know, pat him and snuggle him and get hugs and whatever they need. But then I get the opportunity to say, hey, how's it going? Do you need anything? Is there anything I can do to be supportive? And then towards the end of academy, we get this great opportunity as our peer support teams to come in and talk. Hey, this is our peer support team. We're going to connect you with a peer support member as kind of a mentor through this first probationary year. It is a unique experience to be on probation and you might need someone to offload to. In addition to making sure they have my contact information. And then I'm very intentional those first few weeks that they hit the line, I try to make the rounds and just welcome them to the department. So there's this integrated practice I am hoping early on. And we tell them in the academy, find a therapist before you need one, because unfortunately, by the time you need one, there's a wait list. You have to develop that relationship. It's a lot of work up front and you don't want to be doing that when stuff's hitting the fan. So thankfully, that opportunity in the academy and what's been awesome is the last couple years, some of the academy instructors sit in on that and they provide their own lived experience. Their vulnerability to say, please get a therapist before you need one. I learned the hard way, or, hey, this has been helpful for me. And this is this really great vulnerable space where their instructors come in and they let that guard down and they say, you know, this is an important area to be focusing on something that not all academies have had or many until recently.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So that's my belief in like, how we are lessening over the course of time is, I believe starting early changes the culture 100%.

[B]

And I love that that's where you went with it and I love that what is being done. Because yes, I always have a belief that if you start something early, you, you don't know otherwise. Meaning, like Say you go through half your career, we'll say 15 years, and then all of a sudden you start seeking help with, through a counselor. It's like now it's like trying to start a new routine, new practice. And it's like, it's different. It's new. You could be easily hesitant to know, I don't got time, I don't want to. But if it's integrated early, you know nothing different.

[A]

And you don't have 15 years of things to also unpack with what you're going through now. Right. So. So that's one of the things that has been really helpful, I think, in this field is that even. I just even have people that come in my office, they're like, I think I'm. I think I'm ready for just a monthly check in. But then if and when something happens in their life, they're like, ooh, I need to get in sooner. Great. We already have the relationship established. We can totally make that happen. It's not a, oh, wait list. Having to, you know, that relationship is there if and when stuff is hard.

[B]

100, 100. And being vulnerable myself, I was, I wasn't one of the individuals that, you know, saw counselor early on a few years ago, went through some tough times, tried to find a counselor. Took a while. Exactly to your point. Not only did it take a while, but it's hard to find someone that was culturally competent. We use that. And then you go further. You had to find their availability, and then go further. Once you do find their availability, you had to build a rapport. And then you're talking three, four, five, six sessions in now. You're finally got some momentum, we'll call it. You're a year later. And so you're in crisis now, but it's not till a year to where you're really getting kind of the help that you need and want. And so I'm just. To the listeners here, it's what Brooke is saying is essential for everybody. And yes, some of us are probably near retirement, but even now it's not too late. Start early, but wherever you're at is a good time.

[A]

Absolutely. And that's one of the areas, again, thankfully to the agencies I work with, they're just open to any, any area that we might see gaps in or we see options or opportunities for growth. And one of those that we're really dialing in on now is, is that preparation for retirement, because that's such a massive life transition. So much identity shifting. And, and we've done a okay. Job at helping people financially. Everyone knows what their high five is. Everyone knows, like, how to get all those numbers from the state. But what about the mental health or the. The relational aspect of things? Because that can be. That can feel like a cliff for people who aren't mentally prepared. So we're working at our agency, We've got a focus group together of retirees. How can we better serve people in that five year into. Into retirement, start to prepare for the mental aspects of that transition?

[B]

I love that I. I love that this stuff is happening.

[A]

And, yeah, it's.

[B]

It's happening. I'm gonna go back just a little bit because I love this part of it that I want to see where it goes. This is possibly another challenging question portion here, but I was an academy instructor for many years actually, and I know the, the cultural say of these are new recruits. This is, you gotta. You gotta. You gotta grind it out, whatever that looks like, right? Physically, mentally, you name it. But there's some. There's a belief out there that you have to tough it out. And if you aren't tough, you don't. You. You can't make it, or you should. You don't belong. We'll say, right, That's a, That's a true thing. A belief even to this day in 2026. Right. And then there's also the belief on the recruit side of, like, I shouldn't be vulnerable. I'm in the academy. I need to be tough. I need to show my toughness. And if I show any kind of weakness, you know, I'm mentally struggling or what I might be viewed as, as maybe I'm not tough enough for this profession. Right. So it's really like how those challenges, right, because those, Those exist, those Personas, if you will, those. That culture of, you know, what are you talking about? When I, 30 years ago, when I was hired, there was no. We don't talk about mental health. Like, if you can't take it, why are you here? So speak.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I do. I do see that a shift is happening. At least the areas that I'm involved with. The expectations don't have to be lowered for people to also be human. Right. And I think that's what we're seeing is like, these are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to either be tough or be human and vulnerable. Right. Both can exist. And I would just challenge, obviously, those who are instructors to see how they can hold that balance, caring about their people while still holding a high standard. And I believe that people really Remember that academy experience. Some for good, some not for, you know, some for bad. And so as those leaders, who do you want to be remembered as, do you want to be remembered as, hey, when that recruit eventually promotes and becomes the VC of training or the company officer of training, do they want to emulate you and. Or do they want to do the opposite?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think that really there, there's a balance there and a fine tuning. And I would, I would say to the recruits, if you're not getting that from your academy, just at least make sure you have a place where you can offload those stressors. Right. Whether it's a previous family member who's gone through or a counselor or someone where that isn't seen as weakness, it's actually seen as strength. To be going through something really physically and emotionally exhausting and to seek support through that, you don't have to go it alone.

[B]

I know, and I love how you worded that too. It's like expectations don't have to be lowered when you are being vulnerable, when you are seeking help, when you're proactive about making sure your, your mental health is doing okay and your physical health. Because I mean that, like I said, that's still, that's a strong belief out there. And the way that you describe that is that both can exist. You can, you can have, you could, you can pay attention to your mental health and you could be very proactive. And then you could also have this high standard of still performing very well. Like, it's not one or the other one doesn't just, just overtake. And the way you explain that kind of, it's so key. And I think that's just what we need to hear. We need to hear that. We need to know that we need to reiterate that, and we just need to continue to build that culture. And I think it's very important too, that not just instructors, but the recruits, you know, be vulnerable themselves. To say, I am going to prioritize my mental health, I am even during the academy, going to make sure that I show up for myself when I need help. And then in addition to, I'm going to work my ass off and I'm going to, you know, give it all I got in the academy while tending to my, you know, mental wellness as well.

[A]

Absolutely. Yep. And I think we can equip our company officers and our leaders in those roles to be able to hold that balance. Right. We have this company officer leadership academy that Bellevue and Redmond puts on together. And I get a section of that to talk about how important it is not only as company officers to take care of their own mental health because they're modeling that for their, for their crew, but also how do you get to know your people's baselines and how do you notice when it's off? How do you have those hard conversations to be able to be a trusted person for your crew? Because that makes all the difference for their level of comfortability in, in your station, in. On your crew.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. So that's a great opportunity I have now.

[B]

And you mentioned company officer Academy. I think I know of this. I know Bellevue started this a few years back. But you don't. First of all, you don't see many company officer academies to begin with. Is this like a week long academy? Four day, three day. What is this thing like a week?

[A]

It is, it's a week long. And it obviously a lot of tactics but they also integrate. They bring in a yoga instructor and they teach breath work. They bring in a nutrition instructor and they teach nutrition and exercise. They bring in the mental health. It's very, it's become very holistic. Yes. And I'm so grateful for that because all of those pieces matter in addition to your tactics and how you're going to run your crew. Right. That's, it's, it's so important. And now we have this continuing to grow kind of academy for the company officers to go through. Get that support.

[B]

And I agree with that. 100 and I love the dedication. So now I'm going to go on my, my, my extreme on, on the opposite end now. It's already not common to find dedicated time for organizations to put to company officer development. We'll say 40 hours. If it's a big department. Say I could be 10 or 20 people in it. The time and money invested in those people is, it's much, it's money. A lot of money.

[A]

Yep, yep.

[B]

And a lot of people. You'll hear this too. I'm sure you've heard is the only thing that matters is running the call. I'm sure you've heard that before. So some, some version of that. We're already fighting for time to develop our officers in what we'll say in this context. The only thing that matters stuff, the operational stuff, the going to the fire. How are we fighting for the time to. The stuff that you're talking about?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well I, I think again it's that belief in, in the people. Right. And, and you're gonna have, in my opinion, you're gonna Have a better responder for every cardiac arrest, every afa, every car accident. If they are taking care of themselves, they are going to be able to show up as better people on those calls. If they're supported, if they're invested in. You're going to have retention, you're going to have higher workplace satisfaction, you're going to have less conflicts. You know, all of those things are going to benefit the community and they're going to benefit your department, not to mention they're going to benefit the individual. And that's really what I believe it comes down to, is we have to really value the individual because they are representative of the department and they are the ones doing the work in the community.

[B]

Yeah, and I agree a thousand percent. A thousand percent, because everything already relates to being better in those other aspects that we just talked about. We can respond better to a fire, we can learn better, we could retain information better if we're mentally well, if we're healthy. And so here's my next question as we dive into the facility dog. Because I want to get into the facility dog. That's what it's called. Facility dog. Is that what it's called?

[A]

That's what he's called. Yeah. He's a full, full service dog, but he works with groups of people rather than being a service dog for me individually.

[B]

Okay, so perfect. So we have 40 hours in a week for this company officer Academy. And many people will say, Officers will say, are coming into this thing thinking it's. I'm gonna get, you know, a bunch of tactics. We're gonna do five, you know, five days of, you know, what's burning, you know, what car accident am I going to. How can I lead that? How can I practice and get some repetitions in. In that aspect? But then you walk in and the agenda comes out and it says, all right, you're doing one day of tactics, you're doing one day of mental health, you do one day of admin, and we're doing one day of discussion of mental wellness and a day of. With this facility dog. So talk about all of that and what that looks like. And you know, what. What does a facility dog do for the members and how is it integrated into stuff like the academy or. Yes. Practices every day.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. So I would say for the. The company officer Leadership Academy, you know, I think they have like a wellness day. So it's like, kind of comprehensive. But again, I think that the. Almost like the expectation that that would be integrated in is now a part of the culture, right? So it's maybe not shocking at this point, being that I've presented in medic meetings and I, you know, there's a mental health kind of normalization, I believe, within our departments. So my guess is it's not shocking when there's a component of training that includes that. And so to kind of segue into. His name's Raider. He is a 5 1/2 year old lab and golden mix. He was trained for two and a half years before I got him. So he was a full service dog. The only way I talked my husband into a second dog was he's going to be this like, perfectly behaved dog. Well, there's a lot of funny stories about when his vest comes off because he knows the difference between work and home. And he's fantastic. We've actually almost had him for three years at Redmond as a part of our team. So he wears a vest and he's got a Redmond patch and a Bellevue patch. And we support down at paramedic training as well. But what I saw in my work before was I saw that there are some people that maybe just don't want to talk, right. They maybe don't want to tell you what's going on with them. And so I saw Raiders being potentially a great bridge for that someone can still get some comfort, Right. He's trained in several different things that provide physiological lowering of heart rate, lowering of blood pressure. He has 35 different things he can do from giving hugs to laying on your lap to. I have pictures of people snuggling in the bay with him, right. Like, he just is this great bridge for people. And so one of the great pieces is when I'm doing station visits, he's just wagging his tail and sometimes looking for treats, but he's there to just be petted. And I always carry a lint roller because he sheds like crazy. But everyone, you know, most people are just ecstatic to see him because they work 48s. They might be away from their dog or they might feel like they haven't come down from that previous call. And it's just, it's a comfort. It feels like a sense of home to have a pup walking around. So he does a lot of proactive work. He's with me at trainings. We go out again to MCOs or whatever, and he's just there to be petted. And then we also come out reactively. If there's a hard call or something has happened, we will come out, check in on cruise, even the next set, we Know, stuff kind of happened the set before, and nobody really needed anything. We might just roam around and just check in with people. And so he acts as this great kind of additional support for people, even if they don't want to. Want to talk. And. And he's just. He's. He's become a little bit famous in the city now, so that's been fun. He's. He gets treated treats at city hall and his favorite coffee shop, and. And we do some community events, too, like Trunk or Treat or the Pancake Breakfast. We try to be with our crews in the good as well as in the hard.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We're at promotion ceremonies, we're at graduations, we're at retirements, because we want to be seen as a part of the team in the. In the celebrations as well as in the challenging times.

[B]

Part of the family. Part of the family.

[A]

Part of the family. Yeah.

[B]

So I guess the most important thing you said there, the most inspirational thing you said there, is that it's not shocking to anyone anymore. Like, right, the company officer academy, there's a day of wellness. You know, there's a part of Meet the dog or these individuals. Well, I've met the dog, but, you know, it's. That. That's what's. It's normalized now. That's culture now.

[A]

It's normalized.

[B]

That's normalized. And so my challenge to just, you know, departments and those that are listening is it's always a. A leap, you know, and you know this, bro, probably just as well as I do, maybe even more that the fire service, you know, hates the way things are, but they also hate change. We have our traditions. We like the way things are, are. And anything that goes beyond that, it kind of upsets us. And so. But there's so much out there that we can benefit from. And so it just takes that leap of faith that it might be a shock initially, but then it becomes norm. And if you want something that will benefit individuals, the department, you got to make these things the new norm. And it sounds like you guys have.

[A]

It's such an honor, too, to be trusted in those spaces and to be. To. To have that work seen as valuable. I just feel really grateful for the people that trust me and. And really do believe in this. Because it makes a difference. Yes, it makes a difference. And one. One piece I will really challenge leaders with is this idea of, I believe so much of the culture change comes with our own vulnerability. I think you. You just really modeled that here. Well, right, by saying, hey, this is Something that happened to me and I caution you against waiting. You know, like that idea that if someone's able to speak up, especially someone in a leadership role and say, hey, this really helped me, or hey, I started talking to a counselor and it was really beneficial, or this is a resource that I found that again, perpetuates this normalcy of. It makes sense. This job impacts people. You get into this profession because you care about humanity, and it makes sense that it impacts you. It is not a personality flaw. It doesn't make you weak. It actually is such a strength that you still care and that you want to do a Good job.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. And I agree. Thank you for saying that. As we wind down a little bit, I want to ask you a scenario based question, see where it goes. So we're at the kitchen table. We'll say you're at one of your station visits. It's just a routine visit. This is proactive. This is not reactive stuff. But a firefighter, company officer, paramedic, they. They come to you and they say, you know, we're not doing enough. Our people need more. We need more. We need more resources, we need more help from your seat. What do you do with information like that?

[A]

Yeah, I am curious. I want to know, what does that look like? Tell me about some of these gaps that we're missing because I want to help fill them. It's not a critical, like, what do you mean? You know, we're doing all this stuff, right? It's not a defensive stance at all. It's a thank you so much for trusting me with being able to say we need more. I admire your value that you put in this and help me figure out how to do that. Like, who could we pull together for a focus group? How could we, you know, get better understanding department wide of what that could look like for people? And then we do it right. That's the key piece, is that we hear the feedback and then we find the ways to do it. And so I would first be very grateful that they felt like they could be honest and open and blunt with me. And then I would really take that as a learning opportunity to see what gaps we can fill. I love that.

[B]

So I'm going to take it one step further now. You listen to the crews, you're curious, you take information, you reflect on it and you strategically bring it up the chain. And the chief says, no, we can't do that now. What?

[A]

Yeah, I think I would. Well, first of all, that would surprise me because I've had Such great.

[B]

That is awesome. I love that that's the case. I love that that would surprise me. That tells me that, you know, that's awesome. But okay, so keep going, keep going.

[A]

It would really surprise me because any idea that we've had right there was, I'll just throw in this scenario based response which was we recognized that there wasn't a lot of education for any of our providers on death communication or how to give hard news. Whether in the midst of a call or a DOA or something like people didn't really know how to do that. They hadn't been trained. And so I thankfully I presented this to the medics down at paramedic training and so I brought it to our operations chief and just said, hey, this is an area I'm hearing like we could maybe do some more training in. He was like, awesome, go for it. So I talked to the BCA training we, he's like, you know, what do you think would be the best? And I said, well there's options. We could either do an online virtual training, but who wants more of those? And I said how about instead I go do my station visits and while I'm there we set aside an hour and we do. I'll have a, I'll have research based presentation available. But it's more of a dialogue of what's your experience been like, what have you seen done well? What have you not seen done well? And then me bringing in the research of this is what, this is what's shown in the research as a good way to deliver hard news, there's no good way. But the better way to deliver that information because what the research shows is the way that a provider feels equipped to give that hard news impacts not only the grief process of the family member, it impacts the mental health of the responder. Because if they're able to walk away from a scene saying that was so hard and I did what I could or I feel good about the interaction or I feel like I knew some of the things to say that isn't going to stick the same way of ugh. I didn't know what to say. It felt so like it's never going to make me feel great. But if we can give some tools, ideally we're equipping our people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then they said yeah, go for it. So I had this great, like several months of just station visits and talking about, we called it conversations with Compassion. How do we have these conversations when, if and when you're on a cardiac arrest and things are going south. Or you arrive on a DOA and you have to tell someone, here's the equipping. And what's great is it's been put in the company officer manual now as a training for cos. So again, it's. I would be. I would be shocked at if they said no.

[B]

And that is just so cool.

[A]

But if they did, I would say, okay, how. How can we bridge this gap?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[A]

Let's work together from an administrative level. I'll kind of be this, like, liaison, if you will, of like, how do we. How do we fill this gap in a way that does feel feasible for everyone? And then I'd likely loop back around with the members and say, how does this feel?

[B]

Yeah. Wow. I mean, you said something so interesting when you said, you know, death notification training. Like, I'm a company officer, been one for many years now, and there's so many avenues, and I'm sure you experienced this that company officers don't actually get training in. Right. It's like we might have learned it on the job. Maybe some people will have learned more on the job than others because just their exposure, years of experience, areas that they covered, you know, as a firefighter, whatever you may call it. But there's so much that has that. That we don't train on. And some of that is just accidental, and that's where we're at. But I heard this one time it was every company officer is the training officer of their crew, but also every company officer is the peer support member of their crew or a peer support member. Right. We're all peer support members, but every company officer need be that person. But like you said, not all of us are trained in that. In fact, very few of us are trained. How can we support. As a company officer myself, how can I support my people that are there with them 24, 48 hours at a time if I've never been trained? Right. And if I do try, am I doing it correctly? Am I doing it appropriately, Am I doing it respectfully? You know, in my day, making things worse because I think I'm doing the right thing. But stuff that the program that you're saying is, that's the bridging of the gap right there because they're expert at it, people like you are.

[A]

Yeah. And that's what the other great thing about building relationships. Even though we're equipping company officers to have more of these conversations, I'm a resource for them. Hey, I have this tough case, you know, how do I talk with so. And so about my concern, and we talk through that, and then they take that back. And so again, we're talking about removing barriers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. They don't have to search around for someone. And here's the thing. I'm not going to be a great fit for everyone. They might not want to come see me. Totally fine. But it's my responsibility to be resourced where I can send them or. Or find them who would be a good fit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that. That removes their need to have to shop around or try things out. Right. And the same is true for. I've had people call me and say, I need a kiddo counselor, or I need a counselor for my mom. And I'm able to, like, be that resource to, again, remove those barriers for them, because all of that impacts how they operate at work and at home.

[B]

That's. Wow. I'm very inspired right now. Oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. So, okay, as we're winding down a little bit, I want action item time. So you're talking to a group of leaders. We'll just say young leaders, just to kind of make it specific. Young leaders in the fire service doesn't have to have rank, just new members. We're all leaders. What's some advice you would tell them right now you're in a group? What would be a big message or a takeaway or action item you'd say or give to them?

[A]

I think that one of the biggest ones is you can be a leader at any rank. Right. And some of that really comes through people's own vulnerability, their ability to say if they're struggling or not, their ability to share things that have worked for them. And I would also just say that even how they talk about calls, even how they talk about patients matters, because if you, you know, especially mental health patients or people who are struggling like that all matters because that shows your perception of those areas. And so just to. To be cautious, to be a little filtered, to be aware of their own kind of perceptions, their own. What they're communicating with their crews. And again, that openness to being vulnerable, I really do believe changes the culture. So I think there's a lot of leaders in all ranks that have the ability to make an impact. A lot of people that have that come in our door, it's, hey, if a buddy told me this has been helpful, or, hey, someone noticed something was off in me, and I guess I better see if that's true. Right. So oftentimes, other people are very big influences in how we perceive Getting support. Yeah.

[B]

I love how you said openness to being vulnerable, because I think that's so true. But I'm going to ask one more thing to dive deeper into that is a member is trying to be vulnerable. They believe vulnerability is the key to kind of everything that you're saying, but it's not working. We'll say, let's say the culture around them, the crew level, they're vulnerable in their needs and their wants and the way that they show up, but it's not working. And in fact, it's being suppressed. They're being suppressed, if you will, in the sense that, like, hey, you know, we got to toughen up around here, or xyz. What do you suggest to those members that are trying to be vulnerable because they're leading by example, they're trying to lead by being vulnerable and trying to create a space for others to say that, no, we can be vulnerable around here, but it's not working. What do they do?

[A]

Yeah, I think, first of all, finding a place where they can do that unfiltered. Right. Having those outlets. And then I would say to just continue doing it to a level that feels comfortable to them. I think that, again, it's not going to maybe be the first, fifth, or even tenth time we share something. It's planting those seeds. And when one of those members has a hard time, my guess is that that might be the first person they go to, because that's been modeled of like, ooh, this is a safe place for me. And so I would just challenge that, kind of pushing back a little bit against that. That maybe older school mentality.

[B]

Yeah, I love it. Resilience, being courageous. And because, yeah, remaining vulnerable, at some point, someone's going to connect with you and resonate with you, and you'll be making an impact. So.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I love it. Yeah, I love it. Well, Brooke, thank you for this amazing conversation on mental wellness.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Before I let you go, I'm sure you know what's next. It's how we got here today. So we asked for the leadership challenge. Brooke, we're here today. Jim Whitney, a good friend and mentor of mine, challenged herself to be a guest, and I'm glad he did. But to continue the conversation, to keep us talking about things like mental wellness, to continue talking about leadership, we get to gain a perspective further that you recommend. So is there something out there that you'd recommend I reach out to. To be a future guest?

[A]

Absolutely. Well, I loved listening to so many of your podcasts with already some of my Favorite leaders in the fire service. So that's fantastic. But I would just love to nominate Chief Tate from Bellevue Fire. I think he's a fantastic leader. He definitely believes in the work that we're doing here. Previous peer support member. And so he would be my nomination of someone that you haven't interviewed yet.

[B]

Awesome. I do know Chief Tate fairly well back when he was a paramedic and I used to run calls together when I was a firefighter and I, you know, he co hosted event with me about a month or so ago. And I love Chief Tate. So usually I'll ask on the show if you wouldn't mind sharing his contact information, but I have his contact contact information.

[A]

You've got it.

[B]

So yeah. Thank you so much for your time. Brooke, before I let you go, what would you like to leave the listeners with before I close?

[A]

Yeah, well, first of all, I just want to thank you for this opportunity and opening up these conversations about mental health. Again, I think this is where the change happens is normalizing the conversations and I would just love to provide my contact information, if that's okay, for people to reach out if they have further questions, if we can provide any sort of support for people or their crews. The practice is first responder counseling and consulting. We have five clinicians who all work pretty much exclusively with first responders and their family members. And my email is first respondercounselingmail.com so I'm happy to be a resource. I'm happy to do any sort of consulting or connecting people with further mental health services or talk about what it's like to have an MHP on site. And one of the great things is we have a model for this now. Right. We know kind of what works. And so it wouldn't necessarily be from the ground up, but we definitely have a running start for those agencies who are interested in implementing something similar.

[B]

Absolutely. Thank you for dropping that. That information. Would you mind just dropping a phone number as well, in case someone is the phone number type person?

[A]

Absolutely. So you can have my direct Cell phone number. 425-327-2859. Happy to connect with people that way as well.

[B]

Awesome. Well, thank you, Brooke, for this time and I will if I can reach out to you outside of this because I am so fascinated. I want to learn more. I want to learn more.

[A]

Absolutely. Happy to talk all day about it. So you look forward to connecting further.

[B]

Awesome. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in today to the kitchen table. We hope you found this time valuable and we hope we've inspired you to take action, to lead and to spread the leadership conversation. Till next time, be safe, be vulnerable, stay curious.