Episode Summary: Ep. 52: Dena Ali, Battalion Chief - Mental Wellness & Modeling Vulnerability
Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table is a podcast hosted by Captain Berlin Maza and Deputy Fire Chief Bill Mack, dedicated to exploring leadership across various professions and industries. In Episode 52, released on September 5, 2024, Battalion Chief Adina Ali joins the hosts to discuss critical topics surrounding mental wellness, vulnerability in leadership, peer support programs, and psychological safety within emergency services.
1. Personal Journey and Transition
Chief Adina Ali begins by sharing her personal experiences with leadership and the inevitable struggles that come with it. She emphasizes that no leader is perfect and underscores the importance of acknowledging personal challenges.
"I haven't yet met a leader who has never faced struggle...if our leaders could be more open to modeling, like, hey, you know what? I need help or even admit I go to counseling, that right there, boom, destigmatizes it."
— Chief Adina Ali [00:01]
Chief Ali recounts her career transition from aspiring police officer to firefighter, influenced by media representation and mentorship. She highlights how seeing women in firefighting roles on television inspired her to join a more inclusive fire service.
"If it wasn't for Rescue Me having a female on season two, I don't know that I would have considered the fire service until, like, years later when Chicago Fire came out."
— Chief Adina Ali [07:42]
2. Establishing Peer Support Programs
Chief Ali delves into the creation and expansion of peer support networks within the fire department. She discusses the challenges of encouraging firefighters to seek help and the stigma associated with mental health issues.
"When we formalized a peer support team, we wanted to make sure there were options for people to talk to other people outside of the department because we were afraid that that would be a barrier to people reaching out."
— Chief Adina Ali [10:35]
She explains the transition from the Triangle Peer Support Network to the statewide Responders Assistance Initiative, highlighting the significant increase in trained peer supporters and the ongoing efforts to cover all regions.
"We've trained over 500 people in the state of North Carolina... If they live 30 minutes away and you won't come, that's not my fault. It means it's not that important to you."
— Chief Adina Ali [14:11]
3. Destigmatizing Mental Health and Modeling Vulnerability
A central theme of the episode is the importance of leaders modeling vulnerability to destigmatize mental health struggles. Chief Ali stresses that leaders should engage with their teams by being open about their own challenges.
"I have never met a perfect person. I have never met a leader who hasn't made a mistake in the course of their career... if our leaders could be more open to modeling, like, hey, you know what? I need help or even admit I go to counseling, that right there, boom, destigmatizes it."
— Chief Adina Ali [00:01 & 18:12]
She criticizes the current assessment practices that reward referring individuals to Employee Assistance Programs (EAP) instead of fostering in-house support.
"...the right thing to do as leader, when somebody comes in and says, my wife left me or, you know, I, I'm drinking too much, is hey, do you want to talk?"
— Chief Adina Ali [18:11]
4. Understanding Psychological Safety
Chief Ali introduces the concept of psychological safety, linking it to the performance and well-being of teams. She explains how environments lacking psychological safety can lead to increased stress and decreased cognitive function.
"Psychological safety is getting us out of that fight or flight and keeping us in the parasympathetic nervous system... if there's not trust and connection when you're struggling, you're going to feel alienated and isolated."
— Chief Adina Ali [32:17]
She references Amy Edmondson and Daniel Coyle’s The Culture Code to illustrate how psychological safety fosters high-performing teams by encouraging open communication and belonging cues.
"In those environments, the performance of the team was much better... psychological safety is the secret sauce."
— Chief Adina Ali [35:50]
5. Coping Skills and Building Resilience
The discussion shifts to practical coping mechanisms and resilience training for firefighters. Chief Ali highlights the importance of activities that activate the parasympathetic nervous system to increase heart rate variability (HRV), a key indicator of resilience.
"To increase resiliency, you've gotta find anything that's gonna activate the vagus nerve in the direction of rest and digest, which if you're looking for a biomarker, it's heart rate variability."
— Chief Adina Ali [52:19]
She advocates for simple practices like breathing exercises, journaling, and expressing gratitude to manage stress effectively.
"One thing you can do right now, and you start today, is two or three minutes of breathing exercises... try to exhale more than you inhale."
— Chief Adina Ali [56:06]
6. Leadership Tips and Continuous Growth
Chief Ali offers actionable advice for leaders aiming to foster a supportive and high-performing environment. She emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, active listening, and expressing genuine appreciation.
"The best thing you can do is, yeah, listen to these podcasts, listen to the book recommendations, and take time to read."
— Chief Adina Ali [62:57]
She shares personal strategies, such as recognizing and appreciating team members' efforts, which significantly boosts morale and performance.
"People... when they try to do a good job, it means a lot when you notice it."
— Chief Adina Ali [31:11]
7. Recommended Readings
Chief Ali recommends several books that have influenced her leadership philosophy:
- The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle
- Think Again by Adam Grant
- 30 Fires by Chief Chikara Goldfeather
"These books are required reading for anybody. Even, you know, new officers... And, for example, we talked about the culture code, talked about the book. Think Again is by Adam Grant. Required reading for anybody."
— Chief Adina Ali [63:07]
She also introduces her forthcoming book, Hope Out of Darkness: A Guide to First Responder Mental Wellness, set to release in October, which expands on the topics discussed in the podcast.
"The whole first part of the book is going to just talk about the science behind suicide, trauma, PTSD... the third part of the book is helping others."
— Chief Adina Ali [65:43]
8. Importance of Open Conversations
Concluding the episode, Chief Ali shares a story illustrating the transformative power of informal conversations around the kitchen table. She emphasizes that both formal and informal discussions are vital in maintaining a psychologically safe and connected team environment.
"We were all sitting there and we're just having relaxed conversation... It reminded me just how important that was."
— Chief Adina Ali [71:37]
Notable Quotes
-
Chief Adina Ali [00:01]:
"I have never met a leader who hasn't made a mistake in the course of their career." -
Chief Adina Ali [18:12]:
"If our company officers... teach them if a member admits having a problem... the right thing to do as leader... is, hey, do you want to talk?" -
Chief Adina Ali [32:17]:
"Psychological safety is the most basic level of safety that we need as human beings." -
Chief Adina Ali [52:19]:
"To increase resiliency, you've gotta find anything that's gonna activate the vagus nerve in the direction of rest and digest."
Conclusion
Episode 52 of Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table provides invaluable insights into the intersection of leadership, mental wellness, and psychological safety within the fire service. Battalion Chief Adina Ali's experiences and expertise offer actionable strategies for leaders at all levels to foster supportive, resilient, and high-performing teams. Her emphasis on continuous learning, modeling vulnerability, and prioritizing mental health serves as a blueprint for effective leadership in high-stress environments.
For listeners seeking to enhance their leadership skills and promote mental wellness within their organizations, this episode is a must-listen.
Connect with Chief Adina Ali:
- LinkedIn: Adina Ali
- Instagram: @chiefadinaali
Stay tuned to Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table for more inspiring discussions on leadership and professional development.