Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table
Episode 54: Johnny Torgeson, Assistant Chief - Forging Your Team
Release Date: October 13, 2024

Introduction

In Episode 54 of Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table, host Berlin Maza engages in an insightful discussion with Assistant Chief Johnny Torgerson of Barstow Federal Fire and Emergency Services. The episode delves deep into the intricacies of building strong leadership teams within the fire service, emphasizing the importance of team development, psychological safety, and effective leadership strategies.

Guest Background

Johnny Torgerson brings a wealth of experience to the conversation. With a doctorate in Strategic Leadership and a master's in Leadership, Torgerson has a distinguished career that includes multiple lifesaving awards, the Hometown Hero Award from Congressman J. Obernulti, and recognition as Chief Officer of the Year in the Marine Corps. His diverse background spans military service, successful entrepreneurship, and extensive contributions to leadership education through teaching, writing, and speaking engagements.

Key Themes and Discussions

1. The Essence of Leadership

Timestamp 03:26

Torgerson begins by highlighting the critical nature of how leaders are perceived by their teams. He emphasizes,

"When it comes to leading, it's all about how others think you performed, not how you think you performed. We aren't measured by our own perception. We are measured by the standard of others."
— Johnny Torgerson [04:43]

This philosophy underscores the idea that leadership effectiveness is gauged by the team’s perception rather than the leader's self-assessment.

2. Journey into Fire Service Leadership

Timestamp 04:40

Torgerson shares his personal journey, detailing his initial motivations for joining the fire service, influenced by societal perceptions and personal aspirations. His transition from the military to entrepreneurship and back to firefighting provided him with unique insights into leadership, emphasizing the importance of trust and intentionality.

3. Academic Pursuit of Leadership

Timestamp 15:23

The conversation shifts to Torgerson’s academic endeavors. He discusses his pursuit of formal education in leadership, noting that while academic theories offer valuable frameworks, their direct application in the fire service often requires adaptation. He states,

"I actually applied those things to the fire service. And what I found out is a lot of it didn't work. It just didn't translate."
— Johnny Torgerson [19:17]

This realization led him to develop practical, experience-based strategies for effective team leadership within the unique dynamics of fire services.

4. Measuring Leadership Effectiveness

Timestamp 23:08

Torgerson elaborates on the difference between personal intentions and team perceptions in evaluating leadership success. He explains,

"Leadership is based on other people's standards, not your own and not your intentions."
— Johnny Torgerson [23:08]

He advocates for focusing on meeting the team's standards rather than solely aiming for desired outcomes, aligning with the principle that successful leadership emerges from fulfilling the team's expectations.

5. Team vs. Crew Dynamics

Timestamp 27:06

A significant portion of the episode explores the distinction between a crew and a team. Torgerson describes a crew as a group with shared goals and basic trust, whereas a team embodies a deeper connection and a unique identity. Key elements that transform a crew into a team include:

• Trust: Foundational for any group.
• Shared Vision: Common objectives and direction.
• Identity: A unique sense of belonging and differentiation from other groups.
• Psychological Safety: An environment where team members feel safe to express themselves without fear of judgment or retribution.

"If you don't have an identity, you know, within your work group, I promise you, you don't have a team."
— Johnny Torgerson [31:45]

6. Psychological Safety and Mental Health

Timestamp 32:10

Addressing the mental health crisis within the fire service, Torgerson asserts that fostering psychological safety is a proactive solution. He relates psychological safety to the familial environment where individuals feel secure and supported. By building strong teams, leaders can mitigate mental health challenges by ensuring team members have trusted support systems.

"If we really are serious about this mental health crisis that has hit the American fire, then we're going to be proactive about it."
— Johnny Torgerson [34:35]

7. Coaching vs. Mentoring

Timestamp 48:36

Torgerson distinguishes between coaching and mentoring:

• Coaching: Focuses on unlocking an individual's existing capabilities, fostering self-discovery, and encouraging the application of skills in new contexts.

  "Coaching is all about how are you going to apply those skills and how do I get you to get there on your own."
  — Johnny Torgerson [48:36]

• Mentoring: Involves developing new skills through guidance and example, often adopting a more directive approach.

  "Mentoring would be like, oh, hey, this is what I would, this is what I do. This is how you should probably do it."
  — Johnny Torgerson [48:36]

Both are essential for building a cohesive and competent team.

8. The 80/20 Pareto Principle in Team Building

Timestamp 62:10

Torgerson discusses the application of the 80/20 Pareto Principle in leadership. He warns against the common pitfall where leaders focus disproportionally on the less productive 80%, neglecting the top 20% who are key performers.

"When you focus 80% of your effort on your top 20% employees...they can actually now help with the 80%."
— Johnny Torgerson [62:10]

He emphasizes that supporting the top performers effectively can transform them into force multipliers, enhancing overall team performance.

9. Development and Strategy (MEDS Framework)

Timestamp 65:18

Torgerson introduces the MEDS acronym as actionable advice for firefighters:

• M – Mindset: Cultivating the right attitude, work ethic, empathy, and effort.
• E – Effort: Channeling energy strategically, particularly towards the top performers (aligning with the 80/20 Principle).
• D – Development: Personal and team growth, encompassing self-development, organizational improvement, and strategic planning.
• S – Strategy: Implementing relational systems leadership to manage relationships and achieve relational outcomes through consistent processes.

This framework serves as a guide for building strong, effective teams through intentional leadership practices.

10. Continuous Improvement and Self-Leadership

Timestamp 84:43

Concluding the conversation, Torgerson challenges listeners to move beyond theoretical knowledge and actively implement the strategies discussed. He highlights the importance of self-leadership, combining knowledge, experience, and reflection to achieve wisdom.

"Knowledge plus experience and reflection equals wisdom."
— Johnny Torgerson [84:43]

Torgerson announces his forthcoming book, "Forging Yourself: Demystifying Self-Leadership for First Responders," aimed at providing further insights into personal and team leadership development.

Actionable Takeaways

1. Focus on Perception: Leaders should prioritize how their team perceives their actions over their own self-assessment.
2. Build Psychological Safety: Create a supportive environment to address mental health proactively.
3. Differentiate Coaching and Mentoring: Utilize both to unlock capabilities and develop new skills within the team.
4. Apply the 80/20 Principle: Invest most of your effort in supporting top performers to enhance overall team performance.
5. Adopt the MEDS Framework: Cultivate the right mindset, channel effort strategically, focus on continuous development, and implement effective strategies.
6. Embrace Continuous Improvement: Engage in self-leadership by combining knowledge, experience, and reflection to attain wisdom.

Final Thoughts

Assistant Chief Johnny Torgerson offers a profound exploration of leadership within the fire service, blending academic insights with practical experience. His emphasis on intentional team development, psychological safety, and strategic leadership provides invaluable guidance for both new and seasoned firefighters aiming to forge stronger, more resilient teams.

"You need to take your meds every day. Mindset, effort, development, and strategy are key components in forging a team."
— Johnny Torgerson [58:13]

Connect with Johnny Torgerson

• Books:

  • Forging Your Team: Demystifying Team Development for First Responders
  • Forging Yourself: Demystifying Self-Leadership for First Responders (Upcoming)

• Website: www.forgingteams.com
  Access resources, book information, and contact details for presentations and consultations.

• Publications: Writes for Fire Engineering and contributes to various leadership-focused platforms.

Listeners’ Challenge

Implement the MEDS framework in your daily leadership practices:

• Mindset: Start each shift with a positive attitude and empathy.
• Effort: Allocate your energy to support top performers and empower them to assist the broader team.
• Development: Continuously engage in personal and team growth activities.
• Strategy: Develop and execute relational systems that foster trust and psychological safety.

Reflect on your leadership style, seek feedback, and strive for continuous improvement to build a cohesive and effective team.

Thank you for tuning in to Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table. Stay safe, be intentional, and continue to lead with purpose.