Episode 59: Dr. Eric Saylors, Fire Chief - Positive Succession Planning

Release Date: December 23, 2024

Podcast Information:

• Title: Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table
• Host/Author: Berlin Maza
• Description: Captain Berlin Maza & Deputy Fire Chief Bill Mack engage with leaders across various professions and industries to discuss leadership philosophies, behaviors, and actionable strategies for growth at the firehouse kitchen table.

Introduction

In Episode 59 of Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table, hosts Berlin Maza and Deputy Fire Chief Bill Mack welcome Dr. Eric Saylors, an experienced Fire Chief with a rich background in the fire service and a doctorate in Leadership from USC. The episode delves into the critical topic of Positive Succession Planning, exploring how current leaders can effectively prepare and mentor future leaders to ensure sustained organizational success.

Guest Background [03:35 - 06:25]

Dr. Eric Saylors brings nearly three decades of experience in the fire service, having served in various capacities including paramedic, firefighter, Engineer Captain, Battalion Chief, Assistant Chief, and Fire Chief. His extensive tenure with the Sacramento City Fire Department and current role with the El Cerrito Kensington Fire Department highlight his adaptability and commitment to emergency management. Dr. Saylors holds multiple degrees, including a Master's in Security Studies from the Naval Postgraduate School, and actively contributes to fire service education through teaching and consulting.

Notable Quote:

“Good leaders are those that have been kicked in the teeth enough and keep getting back up. They embrace the suck.”
[00:01] – Dr. Eric Saylors

The Principle of Positive Succession Planning [24:36 - 27:44]

Dr. Saylors emphasizes that the core principle of leadership is positive succession planning—ensuring that future leaders are well-prepared to surpass current leadership. This involves a proactive approach to mentoring, continuous education, and fostering an environment where emerging leaders can develop the necessary skills and judgment to lead effectively.

Notable Quote:

“The principle of leadership, of positive succession planning. My job is to make you better than me.”
[24:36] – Dr. Eric Saylors

Essential Leadership Qualities [16:46 - 18:44]

Dr. Saylors outlines three indispensable qualities for emerging leaders in the fire service:

1. Empathy: Understanding and valuing the perspectives of team members to foster a collaborative and motivated environment.
2. Adaptability: Being flexible and responsive to changing circumstances and challenges within the fire service.
3. Resilience: Possessing the ability to recover from setbacks and maintain focus on long-term goals.

Notable Quote:

“Number one, empathy. Number two, adaptability. The last thing that you need is resilience… resilience, I define as the ability to get back up.”
[16:46] – Dr. Eric Saylors

Challenges in Leadership Development [22:37 - 33:07]

The conversation highlights significant challenges in developing effective leaders within the fire service:

• Lack of Institutional Support: Unlike the military, the fire service lacks comprehensive institutions akin to West Point or the Naval Postgraduate School that systematically train leaders over extended periods.

• Methodology vs. Principle: Many leadership training programs focus on methodologies without anchoring them in fundamental principles, leading to inconsistent and often ineffective leadership practices.

• Continuous Development: Dr. Saylors advocates for a culture of ongoing leadership development, where leaders are consistently trained, tested, and mentored to adapt to evolving challenges.

Notable Quote:

“We're getting outpaced by our competition with higher education. Education actually forces you to change and adapt.”
[09:22] – Dr. Eric Saylors

The Succession Project [34:08 - 47:12]

Dr. Saylors shares his initiative, the Succession Project, designed to identify and develop future leaders within his department proactively. By engaging captains early in their careers, the project involves:

• Leadership Workshops: Facilitating sessions where captains assess current leaders, recognize strengths and weaknesses, and identify top organizational challenges.

• Curated Reading Lists: Introducing a structured book club approach, starting with accessible leadership books like Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink, and gradually progressing to more complex texts such as Team of Teams by General Stanley McChrystal.

• Practical Application: Encouraging leaders to present insights from their readings, fostering public speaking skills, critical thinking, and the practical application of leadership theories.

Notable Quote:

“What you've got to do is intentionally reach out to individuals younger, earlier in the career and build them up.”
[50:37] – Dr. Eric Saylors

Leadership Education vs. Training [33:07 - 38:54]

The discussion contrasts traditional training approaches with comprehensive leadership education:

• Training: Often limited to short seminars that introduce basic concepts without ensuring understanding or application.

• Education: Involves deep, sustained learning that integrates principles with practical methodologies, encouraging leaders to continuously evolve and adapt.

Dr. Saylors criticizes the fire service for not investing adequately in leadership education, advocating for dedicated institutions and continuous development programs to bridge the gap between theory and practice.

Notable Quote:

“Leadership without management kind of goes nowhere.”
[19:46] – Dr. Eric Saylors

Recommended Books and Resources [73:21 - 83:20]

Dr. Saylors recommends a selection of leadership books that have significantly influenced his approach:

1. Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink
2. Team of Teams by General Stanley McChrystal
3. The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni
4. Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
5. Appreciative Inquiry frameworks for effective communication and leadership

He emphasizes the importance of not only reading but also actively applying and teaching the concepts to ensure they translate into meaningful organizational improvements.

Notable Quote:

“If you don't apply it, then it just doesn’t work. You can have all these books and knowledge, but if you don't use it, it meant nothing.”
[73:33] – Dr. Eric Saylors

Applying and Teaching Leadership Principles [83:20 - 86:30]

The episode underscores the necessity of practical application and peer teaching in leadership development. Dr. Saylors advocates for:

• Testing Theories: Leaders should implement learned principles in real-world scenarios to assess their effectiveness.

• Mentoring Others: Sharing successful strategies and methodologies with emerging leaders to foster a culture of continuous improvement and collective growth.

• Authenticity: Encouraging leaders to remain genuine and adaptable, using personal experiences to guide their mentorship and decision-making processes.

Notable Quote:

“My job is to make you better than me. The only way I can do that is actually prepare myself and then go test it.”
[85:22] – Dr. Eric Saylors

Final Thoughts and Contact Information [87:06 - End]

Dr. Saylors concludes with a compelling reminder of the centrality of people in leadership:

“Take care of the people behind you. It is all about the people.”
[91:31] – Dr. Eric Saylors

He encourages listeners to reach out via the El Cerrito Fire Department's website or through Facebook for mentorship, training, and further discussions on leadership.

Notable Quote:

“They are those that solve problems. They are the ones that will replace you. They all the ones that will meet the mission better than you did.”
[91:31] – Dr. Eric Saylors

Key Takeaways

1. Positive Succession Planning: Essential for ensuring that future leaders are prepared to surpass current leadership, maintaining organizational resilience and effectiveness.

2. Core Leadership Qualities: Empathy, adaptability, and resilience are non-negotiable traits for effective leaders in the fire service.

3. Comprehensive Leadership Education: Moving beyond short-term training to sustained education and practical application is crucial for developing competent leaders.

4. Proactive Mentorship: Initiatives like the Succession Project demonstrate the importance of identifying and nurturing future leaders early in their careers.

5. Application and Teaching: Leadership principles must be actively applied and shared to translate theoretical knowledge into practical, impactful leadership.

Conclusion

Episode 59 offers deep insights into the intricacies of leadership within the fire service, emphasizing the need for intentional and sustained effort in developing future leaders. Dr. Eric Saylors' emphasis on empathy, adaptability, and resilience, coupled with his practical approach to leadership education, provides a robust framework for current and aspiring leaders to foster a culture of continuous improvement and effective succession planning.

For more information or to connect with Dr. Eric Saylors, listeners can visit the El Cerrito Fire Department's website or find him on Facebook.

Join the Conversation: Stay tuned for future episodes of Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table as we continue to explore diverse leadership philosophies and strategies from leaders across various fields. Whether you're an emerging leader or a seasoned professional, these conversations aim to inspire and equip you with the tools needed to excel in your leadership journey.

Be safe, be intentional, stay curious.