Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table
Episode: Ep. 64: Jack Rives, Lieutenant General - True Leadership is More than a Title
Host: Berlin Maza
Release Date: February 10, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 64 of Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table, Captain Berlin Maza and Deputy Fire Chief Bill Mack welcome Lieutenant General Jack Rives, the first military attorney to achieve a three-star rank in the United States Air Force. The episode, titled "True Leadership is More than a Title," delves into Jack's extensive leadership journey, exploring themes of accountability, diversity, and the essence of genuine leadership beyond mere titles.
Jack Rives' Background
Jack Rives brings a wealth of experience from both military and civilian sectors. Holding Bachelor of Arts in Political Science and Law degrees from the University of Georgia, Jack embarked on a 33-year career in the United States Air Force as a Judge Advocate General (JAG). Notably, he was the first military attorney to attain the three-star rank of Lieutenant General, overseeing approximately 4,600 legal professionals worldwide. His distinguished military service is adorned with awards such as the Distinguished Service Medal with Oak Leaf Cluster and the Defense Superior Service Medal.
Post-military, Jack transitioned to the American Bar Association (ABA) as the Executive Director, managing a staff of over 1,000 and a budget exceeding $200 million. In 2023, he assumed the role of President of Rocket Legal Professional Services, a subsidiary of Rocket Lawyer, focusing on making legal services affordable and accessible.
Notable Quote:
"Be careful what you apply for. I was selected for it and a part of it really that I did with, with every job I had in the Air Force, as well as if you have a positive attitude, you'll get good benefit from it."
— Jack Rives [04:20]
Leadership Philosophy
A recurring theme throughout the conversation is that true leadership transcends titles. Jack emphasizes the importance of accountability, pride in one’s work, and the ability to lead without relying solely on authority.
Key Points:
- Accountability: Leaders must hold their teams accountable while ensuring proper training and support.
- Pride in Work: Regardless of the assignment's nature, leaders and team members should perform with pride.
- Collaborative Leadership: Effective leadership involves working alongside team members rather than merely issuing orders.
Notable Quote:
"Always hold people accountable for doing their job or you're not doing your job effectively as a leader."
— Jack Rives [00:01]
Success and Career Growth
Jack attributes his rise to Lieutenant General to his consistent performance, positive attitude, and readiness to embrace diverse assignments. Unlike some who aim solely for higher ranks or specific positions, Jack focused on excelling in every role, fostering collaboration, and continuously developing his leadership skills.
Key Points:
- Embracing Challenges: Taking on varied and sometimes less desirable assignments with a positive outlook.
- Continuous Learning: Gaining diverse experiences across 16 moves and over 50 countries enriched his leadership capabilities.
- Resilience and Adaptability: Overcoming obstacles by making the most of every opportunity.
Notable Quote:
"If you do things the right way, you're going to learn things that you can use later in life in other positions that may be very dissimilar from what you had been in."
— Jack Rives [25:53]
Accountability and Ownership
Drawing parallels with Jocko Willink’s "Extreme Ownership," Jack discusses the critical role of ownership and accountability in leadership. He believes that effective leaders own their mistakes, ensure their teams are well-trained, and hold individuals accountable based on performance and understanding.
Key Points:
- Training and Responsibility: Leaders are responsible for providing adequate training and support.
- Holding Accountable: Differentiating between those who consistently perform well and those who do not.
- Learning from Mistakes: Encouraging a culture where mistakes are viewed as learning opportunities rather than failures.
Notable Quote:
"Always hold people accountable for doing their job or you're not doing your job effectively as a leader."
— Jack Rives [00:01]
Eliminating Bias and Enhancing Diversity
One of the ABA’s primary goals, as highlighted by Jack, is to eliminate bias and enhance diversity within the legal profession. He underscores the importance of fair opportunities, merit-based selection, and representing the community by fostering a diverse workforce.
Key Points:
- Merit-Based Opportunities: Selecting individuals based on qualifications and abilities, not on uncontrollable factors like race or gender.
- Representation: Ensuring the workforce reflects the diverse community it serves.
- Intentional Efforts: Proactively working to recognize and eliminate both conscious and unconscious biases.
Notable Quote:
"Diversity means having people who are well qualified in the position and not discriminating against someone just because of background factors."
— Jack Rives [40:44]
Leadership Practices
Jack advocates for active engagement and authenticity in leadership. He highlights practices such as listening actively, maintaining an open-door policy, and walking the floor to stay connected with team members.
Key Points:
- Listen More Than Talk: Leaders gain more by listening, understanding, and responding effectively.
- Open-Door Policy: Encouraging candid feedback and open communication.
- Visibility: Engaging with team members regularly to build trust and rapport.
- Rumor Control: Addressing and debunking misinformation to maintain a healthy organizational culture.
Notable Quote:
"A good leader never just stands behind a desk. They go around and talk to their people."
— Jack Rives [51:08]
Rapid Fire Advice
In the rapid-fire segment, Jack offers targeted advice to different groups within the leadership spectrum.
-
Firefighters:
- Be Alert: Understand that as firefighters, you are always representing your department, both in uniform and off-duty.
- Professionalism: Maintain a sharp appearance and respectful demeanor at all times.
Notable Quote:
"Realize you are always on parade. They're going to be people who notice you, even if you don't know who they are."
— Jack Rives [46:24] -
Emerging Leaders:
- Listen Actively: Prioritize listening over speaking to learn and understand better.
- Seek Feedback: Embrace constructive criticism to grow and improve.
Notable Quote:
"You learn more when you listen than when you talk."
— Jack Rives [51:08] -
High-Ranking Individuals:
- Maintain Authenticity: Ensure that your actions align with your words to build credibility.
- Accessibility: Be approachable and available to your team, fostering open communication.
Notable Quote:
"You need to be authentic, people know it and they give you no credibility if you're not."
— Jack Rives [55:42]
Conclusion
Lieutenant General Jack Rives concludes the conversation with three critical leadership principles:
- Always Do Your Best: Strive for excellence in every task.
- Always Do What Is Right: Uphold integrity and ethical standards.
- Always Treat Everyone with Dignity and Respect: Foster a respectful and inclusive environment.
Final Quote:
"There are three critical things that any leader needs to do. First, always do your best. Second, always do what is right. And finally, always treat everyone with dignity and respect."
— Jack Rives [64:05]
Additional Insights
- Transitioning from Military to Civilian Leadership: Jack shares his seamless transition from military roles to leading the ABA and Rocket Lawyer, highlighting the transferability of leadership skills across different sectors.
- Handling Miscommunications: Emphasizes the importance of clarifying misunderstandings and correcting false perceptions to maintain team cohesion and trust.
- Empowering Teams: Encourages leaders to delegate responsibly and empower team members to take ownership of their roles.
Notable Moments with Timestamps
- 00:01: Introduction to leadership accountability.
- 04:20: Jack shares his journey and lessons learned.
- 12:57: Discussion on achieving three-star rank and upholding military ethics.
- 19:58: Defining true leadership beyond titles.
- 31:51: Accountability in practice within the ABA.
- 40:03: Importance of eliminating bias and enhancing diversity.
- 51:08: Advice for emerging leaders on active listening.
- 64:05: Jack’s final leadership principles.
Takeaways for Leaders
- Embrace Accountability: As a leader, own both successes and failures. Ensure your team is well-trained and held accountable.
- Promote Diversity: Actively work to eliminate biases and foster a diverse and inclusive environment.
- Lead by Example: Demonstrate the behaviors and values you expect from your team.
- Active Listening: Prioritize understanding your team’s needs and perspectives through diligent listening.
- Continuous Learning: Encourage ongoing development and be open to feedback to enhance leadership effectiveness.
For more insightful conversations on leadership across various professions, subscribe to Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table and join Berlin Maza and Bill Mack as they continue to build and inspire leaders nationwide.