Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table

Episode: Ep. 66: John Payne, Assistant Chief - Individual Leadership Growth
Release Date: March 10, 2025
Host: Berlin Maza

Introduction

In Episode 66 of Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table, Captain Berlin Maza and Deputy Fire Chief Bill Mack delve deep into the topic of individual leadership growth with their distinguished guest, Assistant Chief John Payne from the Bremerton Fire Department. The episode focuses on cultivating authentic leadership qualities, embracing diversity within teams, and the importance of continuous personal and professional development.

Guest Background

Assistant Chief John Payne brings over 27 years of experience in the fire service. His journey began after volunteering at a fire station at 19 and progressing through various ranks, including firefighter paramedic, lieutenant, captain, and battalion chief of training. Payne boasts a robust educational background with a bachelor's degree in Fire Service Administration, a master's from the Naval Postgraduate School in Homeland Security and Defense, and credentials as an NFA Executive Fire Officer (EFO) and Certified Fire Officer (CFO).

Leadership Philosophy

Berlin Maza emphasizes the importance of authentic leadership. At the outset, he advises, “Be yourself. Don’t try to be a leader that you really respect. Be that version of you... Learn from others, but lead your way” (00:01). This philosophy underpins the entire conversation, highlighting that effective leadership stems from genuine self-expression aligned with organizational values.

Individual Leadership Growth

John Payne shares his journey of leadership growth, noting the pivotal role of mentorship and continuous learning. He recounts his admiration for his colleague, Chief Payne, whose approach to leadership—marked by humility, intelligence, and a service mindset—inspired him to develop his own leadership style. Payne highlights the significance of creating measurable and time-sensitive training plans, which set Chief Payne apart (02:39-09:58).

Embracing Diversity in Teams

Payne underscores the critical importance of diversity within leadership teams. He explains, “You have to have that diversity of thought, that diversity of experience, or you’re not going to be successful” (20:01). By incorporating members from various specialties and generations, teams can harness a wide range of perspectives, leading to more effective decision-making and innovation. For instance, his department’s operations committee includes representatives from different roles to evaluate new proposals comprehensively.

Difficult Conversations

One of the standout topics is the ability to conduct difficult conversations effectively. Berlin Maza highlights Payne’s adeptness at handling such discussions with empathy and clarity. Payne elaborates on his approach: addressing issues directly but compassionately, focusing on improvement rather than blame. He states, “I care about you and I care about your career... Let’s do it and we’re going to move on from it” (43:06). This method fosters trust and encourages accountability within the team.

Continuous Learning and Development

Payne advocates for relentless personal and professional development. He advises emerging leaders to “find something that you love, that you’re passionate about, related to our job and then start teaching classes on that” (58:32). By becoming experts in specific areas, leaders can build their credibility and create opportunities for advancement. Additionally, he stresses the value of leadership lessons in everyday experiences, encouraging leaders to extract and apply these lessons intentionally.

Challenges and Resilience

The conversation also touches on overcoming setbacks and maintaining resilience. Payne shares his experience of being passed over for a promotion, illustrating the importance of seeking constructive feedback and realigning career goals. He advises, “You got to be in the game... pick yourself up, move on” (61:52). This resilience ensures continued growth and prevents stagnation in one’s career.

Recommendations and Action Items

Payne offers actionable advice for listeners seeking to enhance their leadership skills:

1. Get Caught Being Awesome: Engage in activities that showcase your strengths and passions. For example, teaching classes on specialized topics can highlight your expertise and dedication (58:32).

2. Be Open to Feedback: Actively seek and incorporate feedback to improve your leadership approach. This openness fosters a culture of continuous improvement (61:52).

3. Embrace Diversity: Ensure your teams are diverse in thought, experience, and generational perspectives to enhance decision-making and innovation (20:01).

4. Conduct Difficult Conversations: Address issues head-on with empathy and clarity to build trust and accountability within your team (43:06).

5. Continuous Learning: Invest in both formal education and everyday experiences to continually hone your leadership skills (37:29).

Closing Thoughts

In his final remarks, John Payne reiterates the essence of authentic leadership: “Be yourself... Learn from others, but lead your way” (71:08). He encourages leaders to understand their unique strengths, commit to their organizations, and remain adaptable to change. By fostering a culture of integrity and continuous growth, leaders can ensure sustained success and positive impact within their teams and organizations.

Berlin Maza concludes the episode by challenging leaders to invite more perspectives and philosophies into their leadership conversations, thereby enriching the collective knowledge and effectiveness of the fire service community.

Notable Quotes

• Berlin Maza (00:01): “Be yourself. Don’t try to be a leader that you really respect. Be that version of you... Learn from others, but lead your way.”

• John Payne (20:01): “You have to have that diversity of thought, that diversity of experience, or you’re not going to be successful.”

• John Payne (43:06): “I care about you and I care about your career... Let’s do it and we’re going to move on from it.”

• John Payne (58:32): “Get caught being awesome.”

• John Payne (71:08): “Be yourself... Learn from others, but lead your way.”

Leadership Challenge

John Payne formally challenges retired Deputy Chief Steve DeBayer of Colorado Springs Fire to join the show, praising his exceptional leadership qualities and the way he treats his team with love and respect.

Recommended Reading

Payne shares his favorite books that have influenced his leadership approach:

1. "Start with Why" by Simon Sinek: Understanding the core motivations behind actions.
2. "The Culture Code" by Daniel Coyle: Insights into building strong organizational cultures.
3. "Leading at a Higher Level" by Ken Blanchard: Strategies for effective leadership.

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for emerging leaders in the fire service and beyond, emphasizing authenticity, continuous growth, and the importance of fostering inclusive and supportive team environments.