← Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table 
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- [00:02]
Chief Steve Lee
Get outside of your own department. That's the biggest thing is, you know, the way you do things in house, right? Get outside and learn from other people. There's so much information out there. There's so many different ways to do things and you don't want to be just siloed. You're going your own direction. Don't be afraid to challenge. If something's better, then bring it back. Bring back pieces of things, you know, you don't have to. It's not just, oh, this is the way we've always done it, this way, we're going to do it. Well, if that ain't working, like let's, let's try, you know, and that's what like, like you said earlier too, and I agree wholeheartedly. You know, like you might go to a class and only pick up one thing. You know, you might go to a week long class, pick up one little thing that we can bring back to the department to make it better. Well then the class was worth it to me. You know, like you might have just changed the entire way that we do business in some facet because. And that doesn't have to be just hands on stuff. That could be leadership stuff that could be the guys getting out and learning from other leaders, not just, you know, their way of doing things. Rescued from a three story apartment building, the First Responder Liaison Network is proud to present to you the Kitchen Table podcast. Join us as we explore leadership from perspectives around the globe. From firefighters to fire chiefs, civilians to CEOs, our conversations have one simple goal. Build more leaders.
- [01:46]
Michael Destefano
Good afternoon. Today we are in Cocoa Beach, Florida as we have a Deputy Chief Stephen Lee on the show. Our leadership conversation today is regarding empowerment as well as perspective. Thanks for tuning in Today to episode 70 of the Kitchen Table. Chief Steve Lee is the Deputy Chief of Operations of Cocoa Beach Fire Department in Florida. He started his career in the fire service just after high school. He got his EMT and fire certifications at Eastern Florida State College. He went to work for Brevard County Fire and Rescue in January of 2004. He worked as a firefighter EMT on multiple fire engines and got his paramedic certification before being hired in Cocoa beach in 2008. Chief Lee has earned multiple life saving awards while working his way up through the ranks of firefighter, paramedic, Lieutenant, District Chief, and now recently promoted to the Chief of Operations. Chief Lee holds multiple degrees in Fire science as well as a BA in Public Administration. Chiefly is trained as a fire instructor, inspector, investigator as well as works at the state academy on his days off. Steve's been married for 18 years to his wife Jen. They have two boys, Killian and Jameson. They are a very active family and spends lots of time at the baseball fields, football fields, fishing, camping, and at the beach, surfing and paddle boarding. Good afternoon, chief. Thanks for being a guest today. How are you?
- [03:09]
Chief Steve Lee
I'm doing great. That guy sounds really important.
- [03:12]
Michael Destefano
That guy does sound important, and that's why we're here.
- [03:14]
Chief Steve Lee
No, I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here, man.
- [03:16]
Michael Destefano
Thank you. I. I joked the other day. We had an individual on the show, he's from Gig harbor, and Gig harbor is just south of Seattle. And I was thinking about it. I'm like, oh, my gosh, you're the third guest now from Gig Harbor Fire Department. And they're like a small, medium sized fire department. And I was like, man, you guys produce some great leaders. And then I was, you know, going over our stuff today before recording. I'm like, this is like the fifth or sixth person from Florida. So this is pretty cool because, you know, Florida is obviously producing this, this, you know, massive amount of phenomenal fire service leaders because Florida, Florida, Florida. So this is awesome. I'm excited. So with that, you were the challenge of Michael Destefano. Tell us your relationship there.
- [03:57]
Chief Steve Lee
Well, I worked with Mike on and off over the years. We worked for Brevard county together. We went to paramedic school together and ran numerous calls together. Really good relationship. I've known him a long time. Probably known him 15 plus years. Great guy. We're super excited to see what he does with Jupiter Fire Department.
- [04:16]
Michael Destefano
Absolutely.
- [04:17]
Chief Steve Lee
And just stoked all around, happy that he recommended me.
- [04:21]
Michael Destefano
Well, thank you so much for being here and I am very excited to talk empowerment. But before we go to that leadership conversation, would you mind sharing a little bit about who Chief Steve Lee is before we go?
- [04:33]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah. So me, I've been Brevard county, lifelong resident. Born here, raised here. I went to high school here. You know, played sports growing up, you know, graduated high school as a young kid. Like a lot of people in our profession, I didn't have a lot of drive or, you know, direction, I should say, towards where I want to go in college. I floundered a little bit, you know, a couple years of community college and wasn't making all the best decisions. And at one point my dad sat me down and he, you know, one of the best things that ever happened to me. All right, well, you know, you got a couple options. Like you go to the fire academy, which I had a cousin that was FDNY at the time. Become a policeman, go in the military, or essentially you can get out of my house. Like it was one of those deals, right?
- [05:22]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [05:22]
Chief Steve Lee
So I was a young kid, didn't know much or nothing, and I chose fire school. And from the first day I walked into fire school, just fell in love with it, fell in love with the job, and I was all in. I finally found what I really wanted to do with my life and just never looked back.
- [05:41]
Michael Destefano
I actually had to ask Chief DiStefano when he, you know, said, you got to reach out to Chief Lee out there in Cocoa Beach. I'm like, what's, where's Cocoa Beach? So where's Cocoa beach? If I can ask.
- [05:51]
Chief Steve Lee
We're on the east coast. We're directly east of Orlando.
- [05:54]
Michael Destefano
Oh, east of Orlando. Got it.
- [05:55]
Chief Steve Lee
Just south of the space center. They, they launched the rockets or we, we run auto aid with Cape Canaveral, where, you know, it's I think, the second biggest cruise port in the world now.
- [06:05]
Michael Destefano
Okay.
- [06:07]
Chief Steve Lee
We have, you know, two and a half million visitors here every single year. The Cocoa beach in and of itself is like only 11, 000 residents, 11,300 or something. But we have two and a half million people here every year. So every day, I mean, the call volume could be.
- [06:23]
Michael Destefano
How big is Cocoa beach fire? Is it Cocoa Beach Fire Department? Cocoa Beach Fire.
- [06:27]
Chief Steve Lee
Beach Fire Department? Yep, Cocoa Beach Fire Department. So we have 33 uniform personnel. As far as truck, we had two stations, two engines, a truck quad, which is, we call it a squad, but it's more of a high water vehicle. It's also, you know, it has confined space and rope stuff on it, and a district.
- [06:47]
Michael Destefano
Now I know a little more about Cocoa Beach, Another phenomenal town as I can imagine out there in Florida. All right, well, today's talking Point Athena we're going to talk about, which I'm super excited. We're talking empowerment and we're talking perspective. So from Chief Lee's point of view regarding anything we could have talked about today regarding leadership and what resonated with you, talk about the importance of or, or why it's empowerment that came to your mind and something you wanted to talk about today?
- [07:15]
Chief Steve Lee
Well, to be honest, I think so. Empowerment, I would say, is the most common leadership trait that I have. I do believe that all of us have to be situational leaders as well. Right. I mean, there are times when you're on a fire scene that you're not going to Be able to, you know, if, if you're running command and you got fire blowing through the roof and, you know, you're telling your inside crews to get out and they want to keep making a push, you can't, you know, take. It's like, no, you know, you need to make that change. It's a change in strategy. Exit the building. There's times where you gotta be direct and there's other times where. But I would say more often than not, I do use that empowering leadership. And I feel like that's what resonated the most with me, because those are the guys that I had the most respect for coming up, the ones that gave me rope, that allowed me to flourish. They're not standing over your shoulder. Everybody has good ideas, you know, and this, this idea that like the, the two or three or four people at the top of your organization should be making every single decision and they're the only ones that can have ideas. It's just not the way to progress. It's not the way to grow. In my opinion. You, you know, some of the best ideas I've ever heard have come from brand new firefighters.
- [08:30]
Michael Destefano
Absolutely.
- [08:31]
Chief Steve Lee
And you know, they, that was the way we changed this place. We changed the entire culture of this department, you know, in the last 15 plus years. And a lot of that was from the bottom. And our chiefs allowed us. We designed the trucks, we participate in the hiring process, we participated in building our station. You know, there's buy in, there's pride, there's ownership. So I think we just. That's just the culture that we built.
- [08:57]
Michael Destefano
That's a, that's, that's interesting. You said change the culture from, and empowering those from even the, the, the ground level, whether it be a probationary firefighter or the, you know, new. I know there's a lot of organizations out there that are trying to, you know, we'll say become integrated or be involved with things like reset the, the hiring process and other. But you're talking about as far as even like building stations and things like that. How many times have we built a station where it's like, I cannot believe they, they put that there. And actually it was Chief. It was actually Chief Shaw, which I'm sure you know, Steve Shaw. Steve Shaw was actually the, he's one who challenged Chief to Stephano. But you know, over there in Jupiter, they were talking about like, you know, the, the, the contractors and the individuals, you know, in charge of building that fire station, they're like, you know, we're building this Community area, or you have, you know, this amount of firefighters. We only need, like, six parking spots. And then they were talking about like, well, no, you need like 15. They're like, why you need 15? It's only this many people here. Well, because you got shift change. You have this. And they're like the people that are not involved or start. Excuse me, those that aren't the firefighters that they don't know the dynamic or the culture will say. And so by involving. My point is, is by involving in and encouraging those people to be involved in that process, that's where empowerment comes in. And you, like you said. I love how you said it. Like, there's so many great ideas that come from everywhere. Something that I've always said, too, is like, the recruit academy, like, new recruits is like, who. Who are the best people to know about recruits? The recruits are the experts at being recruits. Right. I was an expert at being a recruit when I got hired 18 years, 17 years ago. I'm no longer an expert at being a recruit today. So empowering and understanding and meeting the people that we're hiring today and being involved is key. So I love how you said empowering leadership. Do you believe that empowerment was something that was ingrained or helped you get to where you're at?
- [10:42]
Chief Steve Lee
It was. You know, I think early on we had a lot of good leadership. Different than us. You know, I learned a lot of stuff from. I had a. I was lucky enough to have a lot of good officers, and then I had a lot of, you know, what you learn, what not to do from some people.
- [10:59]
Michael Destefano
Absolutely.
- [10:59]
Chief Steve Lee
But I. Absolutely, yeah. They gave us so much leeway just to change the place. I mean, to run training and do all this stuff. They're like, I. I want to make sure I pass that on to everybody else and. And give them the opportunity. Because now that I'm up here where I'm at, there's no way I can stay up with, you know, yeah, the. The latest and greatest rope stuff and nozzle stuff and truck. You know, I mean, like, they're. They're on it every day. It's their. It's their stations, their trucks. And my job is to give them what they need to be successful. Right. To run the calls.
- [11:35]
Michael Destefano
How. How did that change? Like, you're saying that now there's so much leeway, we'll say. I would assume at some point in time, years ago, there was less of a leeway, we'll say. And then there was that culture. Was it like a culture shift, New administration? What what led to the. Now we get a lot of leeway. Now we're being empowered. And then it led to that culture change. Like, how did that take place?
- [11:58]
Chief Steve Lee
I feel like our culture change kind of started from the bottom, you know, and it's. It's a long story, but when we got here, I. I remember it was me and about four other individuals and most of our chiefs. Now one of them is our chief that just retired. Great guy. We're all at a conference together. We used to joke like, hey, man, one day we're going to have our own department, you know, And. And it was. And no, here we all are now, you know, but we. I remember being there, and we took advantage. They. They had the stuff at their disposal, but some of the people weren't using it, if that. That makes sense. So anytime, like when I got here, I'm like, wait a minute. You mean education policy, for example? Like, you're. You're giving me a car, you're paying for my school, you're giving me a place to stay, you're giving me time off of work. And not everybody's taking advantage of this, you know, it was one of those deals where so we went out and got as educated as we could, and then we would bring it back and they would empower us to teach the guys what we learned. And, and that's one of the biggest things to me is. Is the inbreeding. Right. And like, if you're just constantly doing the same thing over and over and over and over, and you're never asking questions and you're never trying to better, you're never trying to learn anything from outside, then you're never going to progress.
- [13:20]
Michael Destefano
There's a problem there. Yeah.
- [13:22]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah. So, I mean, I, you know, I, you know, not to go off on a tangent, but, like, I remember coming and. And there was an offgoing driver one time, or I was going off and the driver relieving me came, started screaming at me, and I'm like, what. What's. What's going on? Had something to do with the way I rolled up the pony section of hose or whatever, and I'm like, sorry, man, I'll roll it your way next time. But do you have, like. Just out of curiosity, you know, because I was curious, you know, like, why do you do it that way? That's the way we've always done it, you know. I know you've heard that a million times, right?
- [13:55]
Michael Destefano
Oh, yeah.
- [13:55]
Chief Steve Lee
That's the way we do it. And, you know, again, I was younger, like, like you want to go outside and I'll do it my way, you do it your way, we'll see who's faster. Like, we could, we can. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not trying to do, like. But they don't want no part. It was like very much, this is the way it is. So I think we kind of had to change some of that from the bottom.
- [14:15]
Michael Destefano
Okay.
- [14:16]
Chief Steve Lee
And they did empower us to take classes and come back and train and stuff. But a lot of that is just. I realized there's no way for me to know everything.
- [14:25]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [14:25]
Chief Steve Lee
As well.
- [14:26]
Michael Destefano
Right, of course.
- [14:27]
Chief Steve Lee
And I need to teach or to let those guys go out and learn and bring it back.
- [14:31]
Michael Destefano
Because the question I have on that is I'm trying to understand a little bit about. You said we were empowered when we got here. Help me understand that dynamic about, like, was there a big change when you were coming into the Cocoa Beach Fire Department? Like, or what was that like?
- [14:48]
Chief Steve Lee
I would say there was a bit of a culture change. Right. But we, There was a bunch of us that were driven and we wanted to learn. And it just. It's a completely different place, you know, it, it. Anybody that knows this place would tell you it's a very different looking department today than it was then.
- [15:08]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [15:08]
Chief Steve Lee
You know, and I'm not in any way, shape or form trying to, you know, it's just different times. Right?
- [15:14]
Michael Destefano
Yeah, absolutely.
- [15:14]
Chief Steve Lee
And yeah, it was. It was just a group of us that came in and we were really passionate about training and passionate about being the best that we could. And like I said, we took it as, you know.
- [15:25]
Michael Destefano
And I love that because it was Chief Decepto that actually talked about this is like, you got to get outside and learn what's out there outside of your own department. Right. If you just learn only your way of doing things and you always believe that your way is the only way and the best way, that's a problem because there's other innovations that are happening out there. You got to go out and take classes. And then you took it a step further, or you're talking about this and the next step is when you're supported to go take outside classes, go to the fdic, go to these conferences, go to these classes and bring it back. It's not that you have to implement everything, but you start those conversations about, hey, these departments are doing it like this. Maybe there's something we should look at, talk about, and if not, great, but at least you're empowering your individuals to go get knowledge. We'll say, and then come back and foster that conversation about, you know, what do you think about maybe, you know, bringing this to the table now? Right, that's, that's what innovation is. But you're totally right in the sense that, you know, from the ground up, the boots on the ground were the ones that were leading that change, if you will. Obviously not easy, right? But you had motivated individuals. Can, can a bigger department do that? In the sense that, you know, extreme ownership, right? Everyone's responsible for their own part of their development on how they carry themselves. Morale, right? People talk about, you know, morale, you know, the, the chief's got to take care of morale. Well, every individual has to take care of morale, you know, wherever they're at, in their station and their, you know, daily routines. Xyz. But so how, how did, how do, how does, how do, how do you do that? How do you change, how do you get the mass numbers at the bottom of the ground boot, the boots on the ground level to say, let's, let's be a part of this culture change and let's go. Because it's hard, right?
- [17:03]
Chief Steve Lee
It's really hard. And I think honestly, it has to do with hiring. We always say here, you know, hiring and promoting the right people. And then you got to foster that, right? You have to, you have to give those people. Because if you hire and promote the right people, you're going to hire the go getters, you're going to hire the people that everybody wants to hire and then you got to feed them, right? You got it. You got to get them the training, you got to get them the equipment that they want and you have to keep them fed, essentially. Right? Because they want to go. And I. It's. It, it. Everybody blames the pay and the. But it is, it is culture. It really is. Yes.
- [17:39]
Michael Destefano
You know, how does, how does Cocoa Beach. I always, I ask this often too, so it's not that I'm picking on your department, but I'm just wondering how Cocoa beach does. You see, I mean, we had this a lot. We pick the right people, we promote the right people. And right is, can be as subjective as they want or as, you know, as, as specific as they want for their fire department. But there's an element of us providing, us being the fire department. Providing, you said feed them, feeding them the information, the training, the support, the pay, all the above. So they want to stay there, to be there, and they want to progress. And so you have your own leaders coming up through the ranks in the organization. So what does Cocoa beach do? Out of curiosity? To feed them. Right. How do you, how do you feed your up and coming promotion individuals that want to move up? Right. Because there's some people that just don't want to move up and that's not wrong with that. But to an extent there is a little bit wrong with that too because you do want your people to succeed and progress.
- [18:36]
Chief Steve Lee
So we are big on education here, first and foremost. And you know, I mean we don't run a ton of fire. We. Water rescue is kind of one of our bread and butter type deals. We, we have water rescue technicians. We're one of the only us USLA certified full time or fire departments without full time lifeguard or you know what I mean? Like we, we train people, we teach people. These guys are hungry and they want to take classes and we, our education policy is, is amazing.
- [19:07]
Michael Destefano
Like what do you encourage to do or requirements to promote? Like, like is it extensive to the point? Because I always think of it like this. Everything is outrageous if it's new, like. Right. If you had like no educational requirements to promote and it's been that way for 50 years, since you have in the start of the fire department, then all of a sudden you need three classes. Oh my gosh, we need to take three classes. This is absurd. And it's like it's always because it's new. Right. And so what are the educational requirements? Is it a degree? Is it a certain amount of like, you know, strategy and tactics courses? What does that look like?
- [19:38]
Chief Steve Lee
So it depends on the position. Right. But when our guys come in the door immediately after probation, it's you know, pump operator and, and you know, hydraulics and all that kind of stuff. Start getting ready for driver stuff, ropes, VMR. Most of our guys, like out of the 33 people here, most of them are teched out or almost all teched out. Not all the tech stuff. A lot of them are water rescue technicians, which is not easy. You know, we have, we have swift water and floodwater stuff and capabilities. We, we. What I love about this place too, and again, talk about empowering people is that we have people that are really passionate about ems, right?
- [20:20]
Michael Destefano
Yep.
- [20:20]
Chief Steve Lee
And, and so we give them, them a lot of that stuff and, and they run with that. And we have people that are passionate about ropes. We have people that are passionate about, you know, pumping and they're kind of our SMEs, this stuff. And we're so small we can't do a lot of stuff ourselves. So what we've Done is we've kind of created a job list. And if your passion is, let's say, you know, small tools or whatever, saws, then this is your budget for the year. You tell me what we need, go and do some research, come back to me, let's sit down and talk about it, you know, so again, talk about empowering people. I feel like that empowers them to make decisions and, and it's again, it's pride and ownership stuff they want to do. I mean I could go on, on and on and on. When it comes to promoting you need a degree, but, but long before that, most of our guys have degrees. It's not like they're getting a degree just to promote. You know, we take so many classes.
- [21:17]
Michael Destefano
It's just because what always, you know, it's just my own personal thought. Like, like for example, our department or departments will provide an allowance, will say $2,000 a year. Thousand dollars a year. Just take courses. And I don't understand why. So you're allotted this much money to use to get a higher education, to go to courses, but you're telling me you haven't gone to any courses at all in the last three years. Like can I borrow your money and can I, you know, double down and take, you know, twice to me? So I mean that's cool that it's just, it's an, it's a culture in your department that people would just naturally utilize the allotment. We'll say to go take and you know, better themselves. Right. Curiosity was something that you also talked about. Right? So how important is curiosity, say in leadership?
- [22:01]
Chief Steve Lee
I think it's extremely important because if you're not curious, you're not continuing to, to foster that and learn from things, you know, you become closed minded, you become closed off and you're not, you're never self reflecting. Right? You're never, you're never looking back. I don't, I don't know how you progress without those things.
- [22:20]
Michael Destefano
You know, when you got promoted to the deputy chief, you said you sat down with every single individual in your department. I did talk about that.
- [22:30]
Chief Steve Lee
It was something I thought about before I went in there. Because you know, when you're down, when you're in the field, you're always complaining. Those guys don't, you know, they us.
- [22:37]
Michael Destefano
No. What?
- [22:39]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah, I, and, and I, I never. And you know, you know, and even to this end, I love my wife. Still keeps me honest with that stuff. She's so like, she's amazing. She's, she's everything and she. She still gets on. She's like, hey, you've gone downstairs to talk to the guys recently, you know what I mean? Because there were times where I would be like, hey, those guys are just out of touch, you know, or they're this, this or that. And. And she'll tell me, hey, you need to go down there. You need to. You need to spend a little more time. You need to. You know, it was important to me, and I'm really, really glad I did. Only it took a few weeks, you know, getting people in and out and stuff like that. And so what my plan was and what I did, and I don't even know where I came up with this, I just came up with it was to sit down with every single person. I had the same list of questions for every person. You know, some of the meetings last five minutes, some of them lasted an hour. You know, some people were willing to talk, but I knew, because I was a battalion on C shift, I knew what our issues were, what we were good at, what we weren't, what I thought the issues were on the other shifts, what they were good at. And. But I just want to get a consensus, like, what do we need to work on? Right? I mean, what. What are we. So my questions were things like, what are we doing? Well, what do we need to work on departmentally? Are you being. Are your officers making sure. Giving you everything you need to promote to the next level? Are you interested in promoting the next level or your officers, you know, fostering that? There was, you know, just the same group of questions for everybody. And my plan, what I did, was to start with the probies. New, newer people, of course, the probies, everything's wonderful. They're just happy to have a job. No, no. You know, those. Those meetings last 30 seconds, but the people that know you more open up a little more. Yeah, I. I really. I'm glad I did it, because I would say 95% of it or more was stuff that I knew.
- [24:37]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [24:37]
Chief Steve Lee
No, obviously, because I was. I just came from there.
- [24:39]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [24:41]
Chief Steve Lee
Like, I felt like each person gave me one little extra piece of information that I didn't know, you know, that I wrote down. And it got. It was. It was funny because it was so universal. The answers were so much the same that I would start smiling. They're like, you've heard this before, haven't you? I'm like, yeah, yeah, you know, I've heard it. You know, so there were certain things, and I knew. I Knew, like, if 33 people come in Here and tell me this is an issue or, you know, this is good, this is bad, then obviously we need to work on it. Right? So it was. It was amazing. I'm really, really happy I did it. And I think that they were very receptive.
- [25:17]
Michael Destefano
That's.
- [25:17]
Chief Steve Lee
And they were happy to be talking.
- [25:19]
Michael Destefano
That's awesome.
- [25:20]
Chief Steve Lee
And feel heard, especially, you know, some of the lower ranks. Like I said in the notes, I. I started low and I worked my way up because by time I sat down with the Battalion Chiefs, I knew what our issues were. Right. I had a list drawn out. Like, I know this is all right. So if 30 or, you know, 25 of 30 people have told me that this is a problem, then this is a problem.
- [25:41]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [25:41]
Chief Steve Lee
Right. We need to fix this. So in their expectations at the very beginning, it's, you know, let's. Let's get these things straightened out. This is what we're doing. Well, let's keep doing it, you know.
- [25:51]
Michael Destefano
So there's this quote by Kirby Smart. You a big college football fan, Chief, being that you're from the South?
- [25:56]
Chief Steve Lee
Oh, yeah. Kind of a little weird. My dad's from Austin, so, you know, it was the eyes of Texas and Longhorns from the time I was little. I really didn't have a choice, so I'm a Texas fan. But there are a lot of Gators here, a lot of Seminoles, a lot of Bulldogs fans. Yeah.
- [26:13]
Michael Destefano
Awesome. So Kirby Smart, the Georgia Bulldogs head football coach, he talks about the cost of leadership and that great leaders must accept these costs. And what you said kind of reminded me of that. One of the costs that the coach talks about is he says leaders at times will be, you know, misunderstood and won't always have the opportunity to, you know, defend themselves or explain things fully sometimes. And the reason what you said reminded me of what the coach was saying was simply because although you, as an ops chief will say or, you know, as a leader in general, you may make decisions that people, you know, don't like or don't necessarily agree with, but at least. At least I'll say if you yourself are making decisions that, you know, affect the, you know, the boots on the ground and the people don't like it or disagree with it, I would say at least you are, you know, meeting with your people, right? You're having those conversations. You're meeting with everyone, you know, and I think. I think that's rare. I mean, I think so. A question that I have, Chief, is did you find yourself being able to, you know, deliver? You know, were you Able to find yourself meeting, being able to meet the needs of people, you know, due to your ability to sit down with every single individual, having conversations, actually listening to the concerns with them, you know, taking into consideration that that's that cost of leadership is that you may not be able to deliver and you may also may not have the ability to defend yourself if you couldn't deliver on something. But you accepted that.
- [27:41]
Chief Steve Lee
Absolutely. Absolutely. And like I said, a lot of that stuff was stuff that I already knew was going on. I kind of had it drawn up already. Like the way we were going to work on these things, I was definitely able to fulfill some of it. Some of it. Once you realize that like the higher you promote, I feel like you realize you're dependent upon other things.
- [27:58]
Michael Destefano
Exactly.
- [27:59]
Chief Steve Lee
External factors that sometimes.
- [28:01]
Michael Destefano
Exactly.
- [28:01]
Chief Steve Lee
You know, and it gets frustrating that way because, you know, like, and I always tell people this, you know, before I promoted every single time time, I always had a list going in my phone or even before phones of what I was going to do at the next level. Right. So like, it's like, oh, you know, I'm gonna fix this, I'm gonna fix this, I'm gonna fix this. Like. And that was like the stuff that drove you crazy. Right. Or the stuff that you saw that them doing good.
- [28:24]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [28:25]
Chief Steve Lee
And, and now at this level, it's the first time I've been where well, man, I don't think I could fix this, you know.
- [28:31]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [28:32]
Chief Steve Lee
And man, we're trying. We're trying. And it might be a multi year process. Process, but we are fixing things. And that's been probably the most the biggest change for me.
- [28:40]
Michael Destefano
Do you communicate that out of curiosity? Right. Like when things can't, when they become more complex, whether it be budgetary politics, you know, we can't necessarily get these things done as much as you would like to. Was that communicated to the crew so they can better understand the why things aren't getting done or why things are getting done? Like were they communicated in your case? And how important is that communication from top down, being transparent all the way across the board? Always. Not just sometimes I feel like it's paramount.
- [29:06]
Chief Steve Lee
Like yeah, honestly I probably communicate with them to a fault sometimes. Because communication, anybody that's ever worked on any of my shifts would tell you that that's one of my highest, most important things. You know, communication, whether it's on a fire ground. Right. That's usually the biggest breakdown is communication in a marriage anywhere. Like, communication is usually the first thing that, that creates domino effect where everything Starts going downhill. I do, I communicate with all those guys and girls and I, I still look through the notes and make sure I'm staying true to what I told them I was going to do. And I still sit down and talk. I mean, I had a couple people in my office today talking, you know, and a lot of it has to do with side projects that they're working on or jobs. But I, you know, I try to stay to still continue to communicate nonstop with all of them and make sure that they know. Look, we're trying, you're heard and I understand your concern, but I want you to know here's what we're up against, you know, without going into too much detail because there's a lot of stuff they just don't need to know and you don't want to swamp them. They need to know that we're at least working on it.
- [30:14]
Michael Destefano
Yeah, I mean sometimes understanding the why and why not, we'll say is so key for the, the crew members because it's hard to meet everyone's expectations. I think, you know, at least an explanation and the why and the why not on an ongoing basis is obviously key. I wrote this down somewhere, some of the notes and I wrote, and correct me if I'm wrong, but we'll go this route. You still look at your QA notes or Q and A notes. How important is that in a leader? Because there's obviously a lot of self reflection there. Right? I know later we're going to talk about never forgetting where you came from, never forgetting who you serve, but talk about that continuous reflection and still growing as a leader. Even if you're in the operations chief role or even as you continue to.
- [30:52]
Chief Steve Lee
Grow in the ring, it's imperative that you learn from your experience, good or bad. Right. You're constantly reflecting then that's the only way that you're going to get better and you're going to grow. There just is no other way. I'm not going to lie. There's times I look at that stuff and I'm like, oh, I still haven't done this or maybe I screwed something up. Like when we, I'll tell you, example, we, we did a realignment shift. Realignment, a big one. And, and I told somebody that I thought I was going to be able to get them on a different shift, you know, and with all of the stuff that happened, man, there's a lot of moving parts, especially small departments. Tough, right? Because you need so many medics, you need so many write up officers, you need so Many drivers, you know, you know, I wasn't able to get that person where they needed to go. And so there's things where I said, you know, I reflect and I, I want to make sure that I do right by this person because you know, they, they kept their head down, they didn't complain, they. But you know what I'm saying.
- [31:53]
Michael Destefano
Yeah. It's good to know that even, you know, we, we say that firefighters, company officers, you know, self reflection is huge, but that even chief officers, executive chief, fire chief, you know, they're, they're, they're reflecting too. Sometimes we don't get to necessarily, necessarily hear that or see that or, you know, but they are, right, obviously they are.
- [32:09]
Chief Steve Lee
All the time.
- [32:10]
Michael Destefano
Yeah, all the time. We'll talk a little bit more about that later about continuing to grow and stuff like that. The next piece I do want to talk about is pivot. Like right there's, there's sometimes in individuals, careers, there's multiple situations that kind of help propel your career. It could have been a promotion, maybe it was a failure that took place, assignment that you took that you can attribute to, you know what that gotta, got me to where I'm at today. And I will always remember that story, that event to that situation. So for Chief Lee, what was kind of a moment in your career or you credit your success and now you're the operations chief.
- [32:46]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah. So, you know, there's been a few of them. I had to think about it, but I truly think the biggest one that changed my career was before I even came to this department. It came on a call that we had many, many years ago. My old station, my old department. You know, I was, I was at my dream house. No thought of promoting, no thought of anything. We were busy. Good house. It's like my dream house. Right. So, you know, a good amount of fire. Run extrications all the time. Nasty stretch, interstate. And I had a great lieutenant who I learned so much from that I still utilize half the stuff that he taught me today. One night he's off and we have a brand new officer floating, I mean brand, brand new. And we get a call late, late at night, you know, probably middle night sometime. It's like the call you get, they give you, it's a scenario they give you in school. You're like, oh, this is never gonna happen. You know, the vehicle roll over, multiple ejections, the vehicle's on fire, it's in the woods. You know, there's all kinds of stuff going on. The we pull up minimal manpower and due to the complexity of the situation, just a few other factors, I kind of found myself. I was running the scene. So the call goes, everything, you know, we. We button everything up, put the hose up, patients are flown out. All that stuff I'll never forget. We're in awkward, quiet ride back to the station, and one of the guys in the back looks over at me, and he just goes, where are you going? It's like, so where are you going? And I just look at him like, what the hell are you talking about? We're going back to say, I'm going with you. Like, what? You know, and he's like. He's like, nah, man. He's like, you don't belong on an ambulance. He's like, you belong doing what you just did. And then it, like, just kind of clicked for me. And I'm like, man, like, you know, he saw something in me, obviously, you know, back then there, like, the way that it worked. I just got my medic license, and there wasn't. It was a bid system, but you would get shipped out to. I've been a transport unit for. And honestly, the way it was, I was looking probably 10 years on a transport unit. That's what I thought. I just wasn't. I was like, man, you know, you're. I think you're right, you know, so it got me thinking a little bit, at least about it. And before that, there wasn't a whole lot of thought process. It was just like, man, I'm here, I'm loving life, and things are good. And that was kind of got me thinking. And I had some buddies that had come here to Cocoa beach, and they have been reaching out to me, asking me to come over and see what they were all about. And so that's kind of what got me to come over here. And, you know, I met the chief, you know, sat down his office, talked, and saw what they're all about. And I'm like, man, this is awesome. I'm in. I came over here, and then, you know, the rest is history. I would say, like, that was probably the biggest pivot for me because, you know, leaving a department, it's a big decision.
- [35:43]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [35:44]
Chief Steve Lee
You know, and I came over here, and, you know, it was just a group of us, and we all kind of clicked, and it was. It was good.
- [35:54]
Michael Destefano
A question I have is how important is not just is. And nor was that conversation writing back from that call from that firefighter partner that was in the. In the rig with you to. To, you know, say those words, and the reason I go with that is, you know, we always say words matter. Right? Words matter. The overarching point of where I'm trying to get at is the importance of letting people know their potential. Right. Like when you get back from a call, hey, nice work on that. Or even at the informal level, inside the fire stage, hey, have you ever thought about promoting? I think it's time for you to promote. Maybe you should start working on this. Right. Because sometimes we're a little passive. We'll say, and I, I believe it's, it's a mentors, a leaders. I'll say company officer, but we'll just say leader to leave rank out of it. To help others reach their potential in any, in any aspect that you can.
- [36:41]
Chief Steve Lee
Right.
- [36:41]
Michael Destefano
Mentors should be developing those to help others reach their potential. Right. Because how many times have we seen. We'll use the imposter syndrome for an example. Oh, you know, that company, that's, that's not for me. You know, I'm just, I'm just, I just want to be a great firefighter. I be thinking, all of us have said that at one point, right? All of our company officers, training officers, chiefs, fire chief at some point in our career, just said, all I want to be is a firefighter. Right, okay. But now you're the fire chief. So the point is that the words matter. And so how important was that conversation that you had? Because now you're saying it's a pivot and now you're the operations chief and another fire department. Not solely because of that one conversation. But, but, but that was part of it, right? So 100%. Yeah, so talk about that, those conversations. But then you as an individual taking that information and saying, you know what? They're going back to self reflection. Like, this is interesting that that individual would have thought that, you know, pondering it could be subconscious too, that now you're going, let me, let me look into this now. So talk about that whole. About the importance of all that.
- [37:40]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah. Get your mind working. Right. Like, even if you're not thinking that way, which a lot of us don't. Right. You know, it gets you thinking, man, maybe I am kind of good at this. And then somebody else tells you something. And then somebody else tells you something. I mean, and I've used it. I've done the same thing so many times. You talk about people that don't want to promote. One of my, Our lieutenants here now I remember, he's fire medic. Great fire medic season, been around a long time. Coming to me one time and I said, hey man, you know, you really, when I was a district, you really need to look at, promote. You need to promote. You need to promote. Nope, nope. Ain't gonna happen. Ain't gonna happen. I'm like, hey, I'm, I'm not gonna, I can't force you to do it. But I want this to be clear. I told him, I'm like, when somebody beneath you that you don't want to work for gets promoted over you, I don't want to hear your complain about, don't come to me. Right? Because I'm just going to say, I told you so. You should have done it yourself. And now that guy's a lieutenant. He listened, he tested, he did great. He's. He's a great lieutenant.
- [38:40]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [38:41]
Chief Steve Lee
So I think sometimes it's those things where you just got to tell people, hey man, like, I understand, I do. But sometimes it's not just about what you want. And you gotta think you might not end up working for who you want to work for. If you don't step up, you're. You're either going to be that person or you're going to be working for somebody else. So it's worked for me a few times.
- [39:02]
Michael Destefano
Like, do you still do it today? Like, obviously, it's probably still a recent example you're talking about, but you being the operations chief, are you still, are you still having those conversations to your. Even firefighters, right? But even lieutenants, captains, are you. How much are you in their ear about let's, let's secession plan? It's ultimately where I'm going with it. It's a session planning to make sure that, you know, Frank Le talked about this as having that deep bench. Frank Lee with fdny, he's like always establishing that bench because someone might get injured or someone will retire, you might have mass excess, whatever. Do you have a bench already ready to come in? Because you've already planned for the future. You're not waiting for the future to be here to say, we need people now? No, there's already people in the queue. You've prepared them. So are you still having those conversations as the operations chief and making sure, like, you know, hey, you, you. Are you thinking about it? I know you've only got five years on the job, eight years on the job, but have you thought about the next step?
- [39:53]
Chief Steve Lee
Almost daily.
- [39:54]
Michael Destefano
Daily, yeah.
- [39:56]
Chief Steve Lee
Honestly, I truly feel. And this is not. The next group is going to be better than us. This is. These people, these, they're all stars. Like we have guys coming up now that are going to take our spots and keep taking the next level. The next level. The next level. I couldn't be more proud of what we've done. Like, we had training just, you know, the last three days we've been out training, and I went out there, you know, one of the buildings in the city was nice enough to. Let's do some training. I was standing back, I told one of the other chiefs, I'm like, how cool is this? Like, we're standing back watching the guys that we trained train the newer guys, and they're doing better than we did. And then these guys are going to do better than them. And then, like, that's the whole goal, right. Is that whoever takes our place is going to be better than us. If you're doing that, then you're doing something right. Right. I mean, that's. If everybody, if whoever takes my spot behind me is better than me, then I feel like I've done my job and I feel like I could, I could leave tomorrow. Not that I want to. I love coming to work every day.
- [40:51]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [40:52]
Chief Steve Lee
But I feel like if I left tomorrow, somebody could take my spot and this place wouldn't miss a beat. It would just keep going and going and going, you know, so.
- [41:01]
Michael Destefano
So the operations chief of Cocoa beach still does it daily, making sure. Talking to people. Right. Through conversations and through what other avenues. Like, what are those conversations sound like? I'm just curious. Like, what, like you're going out to talk to a crew today, whether it be potential officer, firefighter, like, what, what, what does that, what does that sound like? Like, obviously there's a lot of inspirational moments in there, right?
- [41:19]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah, a lot of those are one on ones, you know?
- [41:21]
Michael Destefano
Yeah.
- [41:22]
Chief Steve Lee
Hey, you know, you, you ready to take my spot? You know? Yeah, yeah, it's. It's that kind of stuff. Like, you know, what are you doing for classes and what. How's this going and how's that going? You know, And I, I talked to everybody. I try and talk to as many people as I can individually throughout the day. I don't bring a lot of that kind of stuff up in front of everybody, but I like to stay on that personal level with the guys as much as I can.
- [41:48]
Michael Destefano
And so what you're saying is professional development and succession planning, you at the operations chief level, or we'll just use the executive chief level, isn't only the responsibility of, we'll say the battalion chief and the company officers to talk to the firefighters. Right. Like, every level is responsible for having those conversations, to building that environment of. This is what we do around here at Cocoa beach. At organization, we have these conversations daily about preparing people. Right. Like, there's nothing wrong with an executive chief trying to motivate and inspire a firefighter. Right? Yes. There's three levels in between the chief and the firefighter. But what we're talking about simply, you know, empowering, going back to empowerment, empowering people and motivating them to, you know, think about your future kind of thing, right?
- [42:31]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah. And I'm never gonna be one of those people, man. I don't care what rank I am. I, I, I'm not a rank. I'm a person. And, and I will go, I will pull anybody aside. I don't care. Hey, man, how's it going? How, like, I don't, I, I always despise all that.
- [42:47]
Michael Destefano
Like, yeah, you're, you're Steve. You're Steve, that's a firefighter, and you're, like, trying to help them become the best that they can be.
- [42:54]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah. And, and if company officers, any, anybody. You want to know how you earn respect, even as a battalion, you get up, you're, you're the first one to get up and do station duties. You're, you're, the, you're the one that's out there first at the rig. You know what I mean? You're. It's, it's so important to, again, it comes back to integrity and just doing what's right instead of what's comfortable. Some of these people get pretty comfortable in their roles and they feel like they're above certain things. You're never above it. You know, at the end of the day, we're, we're also firefighters, and that's who I'm here for. Right. And we always joke up here at our department. It's like, if, if we disappeared tomorrow, fire department would still run. Right? Like, because, you know, we're here to run calls. Like, they're still going to get on the trucks and run the calls. If they disappear tomorrow, then we're in a whole heap of trouble.
- [43:46]
Michael Destefano
Exactly.
- [43:47]
Chief Steve Lee
Right.
- [43:47]
Michael Destefano
Exactly.
- [43:48]
Chief Steve Lee
You know, I mean, we can't function without them. They are the lifeblood of this place. We, Our job is to give them what they need to run the calls.
- [43:58]
Michael Destefano
So now that we've gone through empowerment, we've talked about curiosity, we've talked about perspective, we talked about secession planning. Let's talk to some firefighters. Right? Let's say Steve Lee was going to the recruit academy or was talking to a probationary firefighter. Class. And you were giving a segment talking to new firefighters on being great leaders. Right? Because leaders are at every level. What would you say in your discussion or speech to those firefighters regarding leadership in their journey, starting this early.
- [44:31]
Chief Steve Lee
Regarding leadership? I would say talk less and listen more. There is a lot of very opinionated people that, you know, if your mouth's open, then you're not. You're not hearing what's going on around you. Most people will tell you that. When I was a battalion, when I was down there, I. I used to tell him, I used to sit at the end of the table and chew the end off my tongue all the time because I, I would, you know, listen to conversations and. But I knew what was going on. You know, you listen and that's how you figure out what's going on. I, I also think that speaking of newer leaders and, and newer, just newer generation, is that it's world. We're driven, right? We're very driven these days. It's great, right? We're pushing hard, pushing hard, pushing hard. But what I've seen is everyone seems to be so. Almost as if in a hurry, right, to get promoted. It's everybody's rush, rush, rush. You know, you got your whole career, you know this, like, put your head down, keep working, keep taking classes, try to be the best at your rank, right? And that's what I try to push is like, you know, just try to be the best at whatever you're doing. And then all that, that, the promotions and the respect and all that stuff you look for, that stuff will follow. Just put in the work, keep your head down, put in the work, keep driving, do what's right, and all that stuff will work itself out. I always feel like everybody's in such a hurry nowadays. And I'm like, man, it.
- [46:07]
Michael Destefano
We're gonna talk about one day you're gonna miss. Yeah, it's true. You're gonna miss it one day where the next piece here, I know we're gonna talk a little bit about Bill Walsh, because I know and you just talked about. You put your head down, get the work. You know, put the work in, and the results will follow, more or less. So I'll. I'll hold the Bill Walsh comment because I know you're going to mention it because I, I love Bill Walsh, one of his books. In fact, it's right behind me here. I know we're not doing video, but going to reference something, so we'll get to that in a second. Regarding emerging leaders, right? We'll just say it doesn't have to be a company officer, it doesn't have to be even a formal leader, you know, of a rank. But the emerging leaders are those, those that are taking the step toward those leadership roles. This being a podcast geared toward those leaders, right, the ones that are up and coming, the future, the people that are going to replace you and I, what would you tell those individuals regarding leadership and continuing to grow, specifically in the areas that we talked about today? What would you, what kind of advice would you provide?
- [47:01]
Chief Steve Lee
A lot of what I said earlier, and that's just the way that we learned was getting out, get outside of your own department. That's, that's the biggest thing is you, you know, the way you do things in house. Right. Get outside and learn from other people. There's so much information out there. There's so many different ways to do things and you don't want to be just siloed. You're going your own direction and don't be afraid to challenge. If something's better, then bring it back. Bring back pieces of things, you know, you don't have to. It's not just, oh, this is the way we've always done this way we're going to do it. Well, if that ain't working, like let's, let's try, you know, and that's what like, like you said earlier too, and I agree wholeheartedly. You, like you might go to a class and only pick up one thing, you know, you might go to a week long class, pick up one little thing that we can bring back to the department to make it better. Well then the class was worth it to me, you know, like you might have just changed the entire way that we do business in some facet because, and that doesn't have to be just hands on stuff that could be leadership stuff that could be the guys getting out and learning from other leaders, not just, you know, their way of doing things.
- [48:13]
Michael Destefano
At the end of the day, it's getting out and learning from outside and bringing it in again. It goes back to that empowerment, being empowered to, to bring something back and you know, the crew's being receptive to it. So going back to Bill Walsh, you had mentioned concentrate on what will produce results rather than concentrating on the results itself. Right. And the book that I was talking about is the score will take care of itself. But that's exactly kind of what you're talking about, right? Like instead of focusing on that end journey, focusing on where you want to be, just focus on everything that it consists of and Then that promotion will happen, right. At some point, as you're working on it, instead of focusing on the promotion, just focus on the progress toward it. Focus on your own competencies, focus on your leadership development.
- [48:56]
Chief Steve Lee
And so, yeah, well. And you know, the thing about that is too, it's. You have to be in the moment like that, but you also have to prepare yourself for the next job. Right? Like, you need to make sure. Like, if you need to have that degree, you need to have that stuff. But there's just this. And like I said a little bit ago, it seems like everybody's kind of in a big hurry. Instead of stopping to smell the roses, enjoying the rank they're in, being the best firefighter they could be, everybody's looking at driver, looking at lieutenant or look. And it's like. But. And that. That says it. I feel like that says it perfectly. You know, focus on the process.
- [49:31]
Michael Destefano
Focus on the process. Well, speaking of books, this being a leadership based podcast, there's lots of readings, articles, and in fact, I don't even want to limit it to a book. But one of your favorite readings, something that you'd recommend to our listeners, right? We talked about getting out of your, you know, department to go learn something. Sometimes we don't have to leave our department. Sometimes we get a click on Amazon and the book comes to us.
- [49:52]
Chief Steve Lee
Ego is the enemy.
- [49:54]
Michael Destefano
Ego is the enemy. Talk about that real quick. Ego is. Is not something any firefighters have. Right? Let's be honest. Right?
- [50:01]
Chief Steve Lee
No. Yeah. None of us have ego.
- [50:03]
Michael Destefano
None of us have. But still a good read. But talk about that and why that's important. Why is egos the enemy? Why is that important for fire service leaders?
- [50:09]
Chief Steve Lee
I think a lot of us have seen a lot of that. Right. In our time. What I do like about the book is it uses a lot of examples, right? So, you know, they use examples of people who let their egos get the best of them. And, you know, it didn't go well. But ego is so important, man. You know, my. I think beating it comes with age sometimes. A lot of it. Right. Like my wife says, you know, I didn't mature till 38. I'm just now hitting my stride. But, you know, ego itself, I think it. I think the hardest part is just probably recognizing that you're even doing it.
- [50:47]
Michael Destefano
Yep.
- [50:48]
Chief Steve Lee
Right. And I think a lot of people don't even recognize they're doing it, which is a lot of the tough conversations and stuff we need to have is as chief officers, he's like, hey, hey, you're doing it again, right? Like, you know, if you're getting defensive and these things are going on, you need to start slowing down. Think about what you're saying, right? You're change way do business because you let your ego get the best of you. You know, you don't always have to be right. I think it's a really important piece of what we, a lot of us deal with. Like I said, not a lot of firefighters have ego.
- [51:19]
Michael Destefano
No, no, no, we don't have that. We don't have that problem. Some industries have a lot more than us, you know? Yeah. Can you talk about that aspect? You talk about having conversations, right? Conversations are. Can be uncomfortable for some people, but the importance of having conversations, you said like battalion chiefs, maybe a battalion chief to a crew member, a company officer. Because a lot of. A lot of. A lot of people in leadership roles, right. Will say, would rather not have conflict. Right? Would rather just ignore it, let it be. Because, you know, having that conflict and those conversations is uncomfortable. We'll say when we're talking about ego, specifically, correct. Because we can talk about conversations and all, all kinds of conflict resolution, but that's a whole episode by itself. Got to have those conversations, and you got to knock down that ego for us to become the best we can.
- [52:08]
Chief Steve Lee
Well, they're never easy, right? Those conversations are. Nobody likes to have them. You know, you don't. You don't want to be the person that has to have more, the person that has to receive those. You know what I mean? Like, you don't want to be on either side of that. Probably, in my opinion, the least fun part of the job, you know, and especially in a small department. So with us, we're pretty close. I mean, our family, like, it's not like I got some guy transferring from, you know, across New York and, you know, I don't even know the guy. So, yeah, it's not fun. But if you're not having those conversations with people, you're doing them a disservice, man. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're letting it faster, you're letting it get worse, and then what happens, right? So their ego issues or their. Whatever their issues are, start to fester, and then it, It. It's cancerous, right? It spreads to other people, and then there's negativity, and then there's, like, it just snowballs, right? Yeah. It's imperative you jump on it early and you have the conversation with them when it's not a big deal. And, and most of the time, the, the answer Is like, oh, sorry, I didn't realize I was doing it. She's like, so, yeah, it. It happens. It happens. All of us. We all start slipping a little bit. We start straining a little bit. Sometimes you need a course. Correct. And we're back on it.
- [53:20]
Michael Destefano
Back on it. Absolutely. So if you get ahead of it, what you're saying is having conversations early, no matter how difficult or uncomfortable it might be, we just have to know as leaders, if you wait, those conversations that are inevitable are just gonna be that much harder.
- [53:35]
Chief Steve Lee
Horrible.
- [53:36]
Michael Destefano
Yeah, that's. Yeah. I mean, it goes without saying. I just wanted to highlight that. Yeah. No matter how uncomfortable it is now, just know it's not going to get any easier. You put it off. Good luck later. Right? Good luck. Yeah. This being the kitchen table chief, things happen at the kitchen table. A lot of conversations, a lot of stories being told. Please share a one of your fondest kitchen table memories in the firehouse.
- [54:01]
Chief Steve Lee
I don't even know if I could talk about them knowing that you can't. You know, honestly, I would say. And I haven't even thought about this, but I would probably say it was when I promoted to. To deputy chief just a few months ago, because we had my final shift dinner and all that stuff, and the guys did all kinds of stuff. It was wonderful. It was amazing. And they. They gave me a letter, you know, really heartfelt letter. Man, it was awesome. Like, just, you know, talking about, you know, how happy they were and how heartfelt it was. It was. It was amazing. You know, they don't know it, but, you know, they're. Because, you know, sometimes I've been known to be a little tough, and they're trying to make me cry. It was the whole deal, you know, and. And they were all pissed off because they didn't cry looking at me, and. But they don't know this, but I was pretty close, you know, pretty close to welling up. And it was. It's awesome to know that you influenced people in that manner. Like you said, communication that probably is one of the most memorable to me. Even though they tell you they're happy to work on your shift and all that kind of. So you never really know until. I mean, it was pretty. It was. It was. It was a cool letter, and, you know, the gifts and all that kind of stuff's cool, but just to know you impacted people that way. Yeah, that's probably. It probably makes it my fondest memory that I could talk about.
- [55:29]
Michael Destefano
Yeah. Yeah.
- [55:30]
Chief Steve Lee
We all know a lot of the.
- [55:32]
Michael Destefano
There's some Other ones that we probably.
- [55:33]
Chief Steve Lee
Should right at that table.
- [55:34]
Michael Destefano
You know, that is pretty cool, though, that, that. Thank you for sharing that story. Right. Because, you know, sometimes you do like to. I don't say reminded, but it's nice to know that you had an impact, a positive impact or influence on a person or. Or a crew or a battalion or shift, whatever it may be, because it helps you like, you know what? I guess what I was doing was. Was the right thing. I did help people. The leadership Challenge. We mentioned his name, Chief DiStefano here, many, many times already today. Leadership challenge allows us to continue the conversation around leadership. We talked about perspective already a few times. It helps us gather new and different perspectives for our emerging leaders in the fire service to tune into on this show to help grow their leadership potential. So if there was someone else out there, chief fire service or not, that you believe would bring on a message to be influential, who would it be?
- [56:28]
Chief Steve Lee
Honestly? I like to challenge my chief, Justin Grimes. Your chief, Cocoa Beach. So he's a guy that I started shortly after in the service. Even though he's only got a couple years on me. He and I were partners many, many years ago at my first department. Awesome on our engine. And he's one of the ones that came over and we kind of promoted up through the ranks together. He was just ahead of me, a guy that honestly has been. Even though he's a couple years ahead of me, he's been a mentor. Right. Kind of guy that always takes the high road. He was instrumental in creating the culture here that we have today. Just a brilliant guy, master of multitasking. He loves to talk. So you. You'll be.
- [57:11]
Michael Destefano
I got about two hours where you're saying, no.
- [57:13]
Chief Steve Lee
Yeah, no, no. Just so. Just incredible vision. And I always say, like, he sets the vision right for this place. And then my job is to put all the pieces together and. And make everything work. That's pretty. So I. I think. I think he would be great.
- [57:29]
Michael Destefano
That's cool. I'm trying to think if we've ever had that on the show. Let me think just for a few seconds. If the challenger. Well, we've had one and one. They could have won and not yet happened on the show yet. The challenge went out but not accepted. But yeah, this is. That's pretty cool. It's always humbling and awesome to see because obviously if you're going to challenge a leader to be on the show and you're saying that you're direct the fire chief in your department, you're obviously calling out to be, you know, a great leader would share, because that's what it's all about, right? This conversation today is about sharing the, the good and the potential and the experiences and the knowledge that these individuals have. So appreciate the challenge. This is Fire Chief Justin Grimes, is that correct?
- [58:07]
Chief Steve Lee
That's right.
- [58:08]
Michael Destefano
All right. I will gather contact info from you a later time and reach out to Chief Grimes to see if you'd be willing to take on Chief Lee's leadership challenge at the kitchen table. So I want to thank you so much again, Chief, for being a guest here on the Kitchen table today on episode 70. But before we do close and let you go today, what are your lasting leadership thoughts you'd like to leave our listeners with before we close?
- [58:33]
Chief Steve Lee
Never forget where you come from, who you serve, and why you're here. Right. I think that we're all here for the same reason. It's easy once you get to a chief officer level to start, you know, getting busy with the day to day stuff, but. But never forget the real reason you're here, and that's to serve the citizens, all your paid visitors and your firefighters. They're the ones who, you know, you're here to support.
- [59:06]
Michael Destefano
Thank you everyone for tuning in today to the Kitchen table. We truly hope you found this time valuable, and we hope we've inspired you to take action, to lead and to spread the leadership conversation. Until next time, be safe, be intentional, stay curious.