Podcast Summary: Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table

Episode: Ep. 73: Tim Kreis, Executive Assistant Chief & Tim Gammage Jr., Captain/Executive Vice President - Labor & Management Relationships
Release Date: June 28, 2025
Hosts: Captain Berlin Maza & Deputy Fire Chief Bill Mack

Introduction

In Episode 73 of Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table, Host Berlin Maza sits down with two distinguished leaders from the Phoenix Fire Department: Executive Assistant Chief Tim Kreiss and Captain Tim Gammage Jr., who also serves as the Executive Vice President of Local 493. The discussion delves into the dynamics of labor-management relationships, leadership traits, handling adversity, and fostering a culture of ownership and accountability within a large fire department.

Guest Overview

Chief Tim Kreiss
Chief Kreiss boasts a 23-year tenure with the Phoenix Fire Department, ascending through roles such as firefighter, fire inspector, engineer, and captain. Currently, as the Executive Assistant Chief, he spearheads labor-management efforts, chairs significant committees, and leads critical response teams. His extensive experience includes managing operations during COVID-19 and civil unrest.

Captain Tim Gammage Jr.
Captain Gammage Jr. has been with the Phoenix Fire Department since 2007, advancing to captain in 2017. His leadership extends beyond operational duties as he holds the position of Executive Vice President of Local 493 and Phoenix Chapter President, representing over 3,700 members. His contributions also include roles in mentorship and diversity initiatives within the department.

Phoenix Fire Department’s Leadership Culture

The Phoenix Fire Department is lauded for its exceptional leadership culture, which has consistently produced numerous leaders across various levels of the organization. Chief Kreiss attributes this success to foundational leaders like Pat Cantelli and Alan Brunosini, who emphasized collaboration between labor and management. This culture fosters innovation, adaptability, and strong support systems within the department.

Chief Kreiss (00:06:12): "The Phoenix Fire Department is very, very lucky that we had some really incredible leaders starting back some 40 years ago... Us working together, we are so much stronger working together, so much more effective."

Key Leadership Traits Discussed

1. Ownership

Ownership is highlighted as a cornerstone of effective leadership. Both Chief Kreiss and Captain Gammage emphasize that leaders must take full responsibility for their teams' performance and decisions.

Chief Kreiss (00:45:34): "Ownership is about taking total ownership of your crew's performance as a reflection of you 100%."

Captain Gammage (00:53:10): "As a leader, you have to embrace that ownership and be accountable for everything involved."

2. Accountability

Accountability complements ownership, ensuring that leaders not only take responsibility for successes but also for failures. This dual approach builds trust and encourages continuous improvement.

Chief Kreiss (00:53:27): "If we do failures, it's on me. That has been how I have looked at it."

Captain Gammage (00:54:07): "As a leader, you have to be the person that you wanted to work for, for right."

3. Communication

Effective communication is vital in maintaining harmonious labor-management relationships. Chief Kreiss introduces a three-question framework to enhance communication:

1. What do I know?
2. Who needs to know?
3. Have I told them?

Chief Kreiss (00:06:12): "What do I know? Who needs to know? Have I told them?"

Handling Adversity

Adversity plays a significant role in revealing character rather than building it. The Phoenix Fire Department's response to COVID-19 serves as a testament to their resilience and unity.

Chief Kreiss (00:26:56): "Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals him."

The department's ability to adapt during challenging times, such as staffing shortages during the pandemic, showcased their collective strength and commitment to both firefighters and the community.

Building and Maintaining Labor-Management Relationships

The synergy between labor and management is a defining feature of the Phoenix Fire Department. Both leaders stress the importance of shared values, mutual respect, and open communication.

Captain Gammage (00:95:29): "Valuing the person on the other side and working toward a common goal."

Key strategies include:

• Sharing authority while labor accepts responsibility.
• Maintaining personal relationships to foster trust.
• Handling disagreements professionally and unemotionally.

Leading by Example

Leading by example is repeatedly emphasized as essential for inspiring and motivating team members. Leaders must embody the values and behaviors they expect from their subordinates.

Captain Gammage (00:80:19): "Don't feel like just because you're the one wearing the red helmet that you don't have to do any work. You still need your people to know that you're willing to do yourself."

Defining Moments Shaping Leadership Philosophy

Chief Kreiss attributes his leadership philosophy to his first boss, Richard Trich, who exemplified effective leadership through communication, motivation, and clear expectations. This mentorship instilled in him the importance of leading by example and empowering team members.

Chief Kreiss (00:80:28): "Richard... led by example. He genuinely, totally cared and he was absolutely clear in his expectations."

Captain Gammage draws inspiration from his parents and early leadership experiences, emphasizing the significance of being detail-oriented, accountable, and empathetic. Personal anecdotes highlight the impact of family and mentorship on his approach to leadership.

Captain Gammage (00:86:32): "Values taught by my father and my mother was that you were always supposed to be a leader in regards to how you conduct yourself."

Action Items for Emerging Leaders

Both leaders advocate for actionable steps to build strong labor-management relations and effective leadership:

1. Align on Values: Ensure that both labor and management share common values focused on firefighter safety and community service.
2. Enhance Communication: Utilize the three-question framework to maintain clear and consistent communication.
3. Embrace Ownership and Accountability: Leaders should take full responsibility for their teams' performance and decisions.
4. Foster Relationships: Cultivate personal relationships to build trust and understanding within the team.
5. Lead by Example: Demonstrate the behaviors and values expected from team members.
6. Provide Constructive Feedback: Encourage open feedback to promote continuous improvement and personal growth.

Conclusion

Episode 73 of Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table offers profound insights into effective leadership within the fire service. Chief Tim Kreiss and Captain Tim Gammage Jr. provide valuable perspectives on fostering strong labor-management relationships, embodying ownership and accountability, and leading by example. Their experiences underscore the importance of shared values, open communication, and resilience in navigating challenges, ultimately ensuring the safety and success of both firefighters and the communities they serve.

Notable Quotes:

• Chief Kreiss (00:45:34): "Ownership is about taking total ownership of your crew's performance as a reflection of you 100%."
• Chief Kreiss (00:26:56): "Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals him."
• Captain Gammage (00:95:29): "Valuing the person on the other side and working toward a common goal."
• Chief Kreiss (00:80:28): "Richard... led by example. He genuinely, totally cared and he was absolutely clear in his expectations."
• Captain Gammage (00:86:32): "Values taught by my father and my mother was that you were always supposed to be a leader in regards to how you conduct yourself."

Reach Out:

• Chief Tim Kreiss: Available through Local 493’s website and Fire Engineering magazine contributions.
• Captain Tim Gammage Jr.: Contact via email at tgammage@local493.org or through the Local 493 Union Office at 602-277-1500.

Stay tuned for more insightful discussions aimed at cultivating leadership within the fire service and beyond.