Podcast Summary: Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table

Ep. 81: Mark Niemeyer, Fire Chief – Succession Planning & Culture
Host: Berlin Maza
Guest: Chief Mark Niemeyer, Boise Fire Department
Release Date: October 2, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into the intertwined themes of succession planning and culture within fire service organizations. Chief Mark Niemeyer, with over three decades of experience and nearly 15 years as a fire chief, shares candid stories and actionable wisdom drawn from his unique, non-traditional career path. The conversation offers practical insights for all organizational levels—from new recruits to chief officers—while emphasizing servant leadership, purposeful culture building, and the importance of ongoing professional development.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Chief Niemeyer’s Unconventional Career Path

• Background:

  • Niemeyer started in EMS, not fire suppression, and entered fire department leadership "through a weird pathway" ([02:28]).
  • Initially wanted to be a police officer, discovered a passion for medicine via EMT training and paramedics ([02:28]-[04:00]).
  • Became fire chief at 41 “by accident,” encouraged by peers and his wife. Boise Fire Chief job came unexpectedly ([04:00]-[05:35]).
  • Memorable quote:

    “The mission calls you. It’s not always you calling the mission.” (Chief Niemeyer, [07:21])

• Lesson:

  • Non-traditional trajectories are valid. Passion is non-negotiable for success, regardless of the path ([06:27]-[08:19]).

2. The Centrality of Culture

• Defining Culture:

  • Culture must be defined and articulated “so men and women can rally around” it ([08:33]).
  • For Boise Fire, the key pillars are servant leadership (“servant mind shift from the top to the bottom”) and being mission-centered ([09:20]-[11:07]).

• Mission-Driven vs. Mission Statement:

  • Niemeyer distinguishes between having a memorized “mission statement” and truly being “mission-driven,” which means living out those values daily ([11:48]).

• Implementation Tactics:

  • Vision starts at the top, cascades down through all ranks ([11:48]-[13:00]).
  • Open, regular communication, emphasizing visibility and approachability via station visits and honest discussions—“your table, your time, your topics” ([15:35]-[16:45]).
  • Measure organizational health with annual surveys and follow-through on suggestions ([13:00]-[15:00]).

• Quote:

  “If the men and women don’t believe I’m serving them, I have no followers. And leadership is only leadership if you have followers.” (Chief Niemeyer, [09:35])

3. Succession Planning at All Levels

• Starts with Culture:

  • “You have to create an environment where people want to go work in those roles” ([18:10]).
  • Internal promotions are emphasized, contrasting with former reliance on external hires ([18:10]-[19:30]).
  • Success shown by current succession: 3 out of 4 fire chief candidates are internal ([23:10]).

• Actionable Wisdom:

  • “Winning breeds winning. Breed winning.” (Niemeyer, [18:10])
  • Retain and educate so people “could leave, but don't want to” ([18:10]).

• Succession Beyond the Top Ranks:

  • Succession should be discussed for all ranks: chief, battalion chief, company officer, engineer, and mentor/training positions ([17:27]-[18:10]).
  • Strong development programs and ongoing knowledge sharing are a must.

4. Personal Leadership Development

• Mentorship & Self-Awareness:

  • Importance of strong mentors—credited Alan Brunacini and Jeff Johnson for shaping his thinking ([28:26]-[31:28]).
  • Encourages leaders to be honest about internal talent: “If you don’t have internal talent to promote, that’s a you problem, Chief” ([23:59]).
  • Quote:

    “Your job is the vision, to motivate, and to support... So when I hear, ‘We don’t have the talent inside,’ that’s a you problem.” ([23:59])

• Qualifications & Passion:

  • Niemeyer does not hold an advanced degree—a vision for the organization outweighed formal credentials ([28:26]-[31:28]).
  • “Do you give a damn?” Passion matters more than titles or degrees ([31:31]).

5. Embedding Leadership into the Organization

• Leadership as an Ongoing Practice:
  • Leadership is a journey, not simply reading a book or taking a course ([31:55]-[32:05]).
  • Best results: open, shared discussions (“sit in a room with a bunch of candidates... just open the door and say, let’s talk” ([33:25]-[34:28]).

6. Action Items & Advice for All Levels

• For Firefighters (emerging leaders):

  • “Smile more than you complain.”
  • “Say thank you before you offer a solution.”
  • Be humble and “practice that, even at the kitchen table” ([35:12]).

• For Company Officers:

  • Set the tone and own the development of those you lead ([35:12]-[36:30]).
  • Pass on knowledge and create a supportive atmosphere.

• For Battalion Chiefs:

  • Be a conduit: Freely share information from command staff to the line and vice versa ([37:30]-[38:30]).

• For Chief Officers:

  • Develop internal successors—begin mentoring early and lay out a clear, inclusive vision ([23:59]-[24:30]).

7. Handling Cultural Resistance

• Getting Everyone Bought In:
  • Starts with leadership modeling, not carrot-and-stick ([40:38]).
  • Harness competitive spirit: as more join in, others will follow.
  • “Mission over me” mindset—humility and selflessness are contagious.

8. Book Recommendations

• “It’s Your Ship” by Michael Abrashoff ([42:32])
  • “Leaders eat last” philosophy—demonstrate by action that you serve those you lead.
• Also mentioned: “Leaders Eat Last”
  • Both endorse servant leadership; suggested for practical, relatable lessons ([42:32]-[44:19]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Career Paths:

  “Non-traditional trajectories are valid... It's not always you calling the mission; the mission calls you.” (Chief Niemeyer, [07:21])

• On Culture & Servant Leadership:

  “If the men and women don’t believe I’m serving them, I have no followers.” (Chief Niemeyer, [09:35])

• On Internal Talent:

  “If you don’t have the talent inside to promote, that’s a you problem, Chief.” (Chief Niemeyer, [23:59])

• Action Item for Firefighters:

  “Smile more than you complain. Say thank you before you offer a solution.” (Chief Niemeyer, [35:12])

• On Setting Cultural Non-Negotiables:

  “If you knowingly and willingly lie, steal or cheat, bully, intimidate, harass—you won’t work in my fire department.” (Chief Niemeyer, [45:25])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Chief Niemeyer's career path: [02:28]–[05:35]
• Untraditional journeys and finding your path: [06:27]–[08:19]
• Defining and building culture: [08:33]–[11:45]
• Distinction between mission statement and mission-driven: [11:48]
• Station visits and open communication: [15:35]–[16:45]
• Succession planning at all levels: [17:27]–[23:10]
• Internal promotions and Chief’s leadership philosophy: [23:10]–[24:30]
• Importance of mentorship and passion: [28:26]–[31:28]
• Advice for new leaders: [35:12]
• Book recommendations: [42:32]
• Chief’s “six no-gos” and closing thoughts: [45:25]

Tone & Style Reflected

Chief Niemeyer’s style is approachable, humble, practical, and occasionally humorous. He’s candid about his non-traditional pathway, honest in discussing both mistakes and successes, and communicates in a way that is accessible to all levels of the fire service.

Final Takeaways

• Culture is intentional and must be defined, modeled, and reinforced at every level.
• Succession planning should not be reserved for top officers—develop talent at every layer.
• Mentorship, open communication, and humility create lasting leadership impact.
• Leadership is about vision, motivation, and support—not just management or credentials.
• Practical behaviors—smiling, thanking, knowledge-sharing—matter as much as strategies or task books.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in creating a thriving, forward-looking organizational culture, whether in the fire service or beyond.