Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table — Ep. 85: Adrian Sheppard, Fire Chief - Succession Planning & Strategy

Date: November 17, 2025
Host: Captain Berlin Maza
Guest: Fire Chief Adrian Sheppard, City of Redmond, WA

Overview

In this episode, Captain Berlin Maza sits down with Fire Chief Adrian Sheppard, a distinguished leader with nearly three decades of fire service and military experience. The conversation zeroes in on succession planning and leadership strategy in the fire service, with insights that extend to all organizations seeking to build strong, future-ready leaders at every level.

Key Topics & Insights

Chief Sheppard’s Background & Philosophy

• Family and Career Path: Shares personal background and the serendipitous nature of how he entered the fire service, starting in Oakland. (02:54–04:09)
• Importance of Diversity in Recruitment: Sheppard discusses the necessity of recruiting to fill organizational gaps and to better serve increasingly diverse communities, expanding beyond traditional candidate profiles.
  “It’s no longer the prototypical firefighter... We’ve recognized that expanded need to... get a more diverse workforce that is future ready.” (05:35)

Building an Organizational Culture 'Future Ready'

• Climate Assessments as a Foundation:
  “You can’t just put good seeds in bad soil...” — addresses importance of climate assessments and preparing teams to receive a more diverse workforce (06:54–08:25)
• Dual Focus: Simultaneously recruiting diverse new members and growing the cultural fluency within the current team.

Succession Planning and Strategy

Redefining Succession Planning

• Not Individual, but Organizational:
  “Succession planning is not about an individual... it’s about the organization.” (09:15)
  Strategic succession planning ensures the department’s values, mission, and brand will be carried on, rather than grooming a single replacement.

Early Identification and Development

• Spotting Talent Early:
  “I’m looking at them before they’re wearing our uniform... That person right there is going to be the person we send down to Olympia...” (11:54-13:46)
  Recruitment is linked to long-term potential, not just current skill sets.
• Giving Responsibilities Early:
  “We want to give them responsibilities very early on. And we don’t mind if they’re successful or if they fail, but we want to put them in a fail-safe environment...” (12:56–13:46)

Actionable Practices

• Operational Inclusion and Ownership:
  • Young members are involved in writing SOGs (Standard Operating Guidelines) and shaping mission, vision, and values, fostering engagement and ownership at all levels.
    “I wanted you to define what it is, but I also wanted you to live it.” (15:09–18:09)
• No Scarcity of Opportunity:
  There’s enough challenging work and special assignments to engage everyone, lessening tensions over perceived favoritism.
  “We need to be partners in progress at every level...” (18:46)

Encouraging High Aspirations and Resiliency

• The Audacity to Aim High:
  “I think you have to have audacity. A young kid doesn’t say, hey, I want to play peewee football. They say, I want to be in the NFL.” (20:42)
• Growth Mindset:
  • Having big goals is encouraged, as long as team support remains central. Sheppard shares a personal story about applying for chief roles early.
  • Importance of being a “good loser” and supporting those who get promoted.
    “Stand tall... you were in a group of very competitive people.” (22:10)

From Tactical to Executive Leadership

Bridging the Gap from the Company Level to Executive Level

• Challenge of the 'Peter Principle':
  • Promotions shouldn’t just be based on technical skill. Leadership development needs focus beyond the technical—on people, conflict, and organizational development. (33:18)
• Different Brains for Different Roles:
  “Once you get to... deputy chief, fire chief... that is a different brain. That is no longer your tactical brain.” (24:27–29:39)
• Metacognition and Strategic Thinking:
  • Executives must plan in years and decades, not minutes and hours.
  • Systems thinking, considering “second, third, fourth order effects” of decisions. (31:19)

Testing, Mentoring, and Setting Expectations

• Competency and Expectation Setting:
  • The importance of providing clear expectations and developmental mentoring so leaders can succeed and grow into their roles.
    “Did you give them the expectation first?... What are the expectations for that role?” (35:02–35:25)
• Mentoring Through Mistakes:
  • Shares a pivotal mentorship story that transformed a mistake into a lifelong lesson.
    “I just listened to him... that was an opportunity... He could have written me up... But the fact that he sat down and developed me more, I carry that forward.” (37:58–39:50)

Embracing Change and Technology

Adapting to Rapid Change

• Technological Fluency’s Importance:
  • Adapting to tech and leveraging data are core challenges for modern leaders.
    “The biggest challenge for leadership nowadays... is the reliance on data and quite possibly the over reliance. Because... technology... amplifies the decision making process, but it doesn’t replace judgment.” (40:27–43:29)
• Culture of Continuous Growth:
  • Change is constant and good—embrace discomfort for growth. (44:10–44:50)

Memorable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Planting Good Seeds:
  “We just don’t want to put good seeds in bad soil.” (Redmond’s approach to workforce diversity, 06:54)

• On Early Responsibility:
  “We want to give them responsibilities very early on. And we don't mind if they're successful or if they fail, but we want to put them in a fail-safe environment.” (13:00)

• On Leadership Aspirations:
  “You have to have audacity. You gotta think that you can be the fire chief... If you're not thinking that you can be that good, what are you doing?” (20:41)

• On Executive Leadership:
  “At the executive level, you can't think in seconds and minutes. You've got to think in years and in decades.” (29:39)

• On Vulnerability:
  “A strong leader is not afraid to show their vulnerabilities, their weakness, that they're not all knowing... be humble, be vulnerable, be able to say, ‘I don't know that. You're going to have to teach me that.’” (48:16)

• On Change:
  “You have to stretch your mind, that plasticity, to make more than certain you can grow and develop. But change is inevitable.” (44:37)

• If creating one policy:
  “The easiest policy... would just be the ‘don’t take it personal’ policy.” (46:59)

Book Recommendations

• It Worked for Me by Colin Powell
  “One of the very first things he says inside the book is, leaders eat last and you put your people first.” (52:27)
• Team of Teams by Stanley McChrystal (fire service specific)
• Adaptive Leadership (leadership theory)
• Works by Simon Sinek

Action Items for Listeners

• Early Engagement: Leaders should give team members responsibilities early in a fail-safe environment.
• Succession Focus: Organizations should plan for succession as a means to preserve and extend their values/brand.
• Mentorship: Mentor and share experiences—especially focusing on learning from mistakes.
• Embrace Change: Leaders at every level must adapt to change and technological advances.
• Cultivate Diversity: Conduct climate assessments and ensure organizational readiness before expanding diversity.
• Model Vulnerability: Demonstrate and encourage vulnerability to foster learning and connection.

Notable Sections & Timestamps

• Importance of Diversity and Climate Assessment (04:53–08:25)
• Succession Planning Philosophy (09:10–11:12)
• Giving Early Responsibilities (13:00–15:09)
• Sports, Aspirations, and Audacity (19:18–22:36)
• Difference between Tactical and Executive Mindset (24:11–31:22)
• Mentorship after Mistakes (37:58–39:50)
• Tech & Data in Fire Service Leadership (40:27–43:29)
• Personal Policy: “Don’t take it personal” (46:59)
• Vulnerability as a Leadership Trait (48:16–51:30)

Lasting Leadership Thought

“Give of yourself. Give, give, give. Partners in progress. And when you walk out the door, you’ll have a legacy you can stand proud on...”
(Chief Sheppard’s final thought, 59:29)

Legacy & Next Steps

Chief Sheppard challenges the show to expand perspective by inviting leaders outside the fire service—like Gene Krantz (NASA, Apollo 13) and Dr. Rhonda Cornham (Army aviator, Gulf War POW)—to contribute to future conversations.

For leaders at every level, this episode is a direct call to action: to think long-term, seek and nurture talent early, foster inclusive environments, be humble in leadership, and never stop learning or growing.