Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table

Episode 86: Leigh Shapiro, Deputy Chief – Mentorship & Coaching
Date: November 23, 2025
Host: Berlin Maza

Episode Overview

In this highly engaging episode, Host Captain Berlin Maza sits down with Deputy Chief Leigh Shapiro (ret.), a 40+ year veteran of the fire service, to delve deeply into the importance of mentorship, coaching, and succession planning—not only for rookies, but for officers and senior leaders at every stage. Shapiro shares personal stories and advice drawn from decades on the job, offering candid wisdom about leadership, career development, organizational learning, and the distinction between being prepared and truly being ready. The discussion ranges from practical exam strategies to the nuances of emotional intelligence and the non-negotiables of leadership in high-stakes organizations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

[03:01] Starting Out: Early Influences and the Pull of the Fire Service

• Shapiro's passion began in childhood, inspired by frequent trips to his local firehouse and the excitement of busy city engines.
• Early exposure, including shadowing programs in high school, cemented his interest in Hartford Fire Dept as his career goal.

[07:16] “If You Make a Decision, Stand Behind It”

• Shapiro highlights the crucial responsibility of officers to own their decisions, but also to amend them as new information arises.
  • Quote [07:16]: “If you're an officer and you make a decision, stand behind your decision.” — Leigh Shapiro
• Emphasizes experience and context in decision-making over simple test results or promotions.

[08:57] The Shiny Badge Fallacy

• Promotion does not mean someone is equipped to lead; real capability comes through continued learning and practice.
  • Quote [08:57]: “Not so fast. So what makes you think just because you got pinned, that you're ready or you have enough information to do the job?” — Shapiro

[11:09] The Two-Way Street of Mentorship

• Mentorship must happen at all levels, and should not be limited to formal programs.
• Officers must always be learning and teaching, regardless of rank.
  • Quote [12:05]: “Every time I got corrected, that's when I learned ... you have to give back below you.” — Shapiro

[13:02] Informal Learning & Life Skills

• Valuable mentorship often occurs informally—such as being taught personal finance by older firefighters—a testament to the breadth of learning in the firehouse.

[14:13] Succession Planning & Testing Broadly

• Shapiro explains the value of testing for diverse roles (engineer, fire marshal, public educator, etc.) to become well-rounded and gain comfort in high-pressure promotional processes.
  • Familiarity with exams and roles across the department proves invaluable as one ascends the ranks.

[21:21] The Power of Being Well-Rounded

• Exposure to multiple divisions creates a leader who understands the department holistically and can issue better-informed orders.
• “You needed to know everybody else's job before you started giving orders to them to do their job.” — Shapiro [18:12]

[24:58] Field vs. Staff Experience

• Spending time in administrative or specialty assignments gives line personnel vital insights (“where the bodies are buried”), which pays dividends once they return to field positions or move into senior leadership.

[33:37] Creating Equitable Promotion Standards

• Shapiro stresses the need for fair access to training and certification when these are prerequisites for promotion, otherwise it nurtures favoritism and inequity.

[34:44] The Education vs. “Street Cred” Debate

• Both are essential: formal education provides tools, but field experience remains irreplaceable.
  • Quote [36:08]: “You can be greatest firefighter in the world ... be the worst officer ... You’ve got to find that balance.” — Shapiro

[37:12] The Changing Face of the Fire Service

• The demands of the job have shifted—as science, technology, and policy expand, so do the skills officers must master.
• “This is a thinking man’s job now.” — Shapiro [36:48]

[44:00] Emotional Maturity, Organizational Skills, and Leadership

• Effective incident commanders and leaders must possess keen organizational abilities and emotional maturity.
• Most difficult challenges are human-relations driven, not technical: “They don’t teach you how to deal with the human dynamic. ... 90% of your problem is human dynamic. It’s not the fire.”

[50:27] The Power of Everyday Mentoring

• Leadership opportunities are everywhere: even mowing the lawn is a chance for teaching, inclusion, and growth.
  • Quote [50:27]: “Everything is a learning experience. Everything is an opportunity for you as an officer to spend some time with these guys.” — Shapiro

[52:03] Find a Mentor, Be a Mentor

• Mentorship is embedded in organizational culture; those who act with integrity and competence naturally attract mentees.
• “Find a mentor, but also be a mentor.” — Shapiro

[54:50] Organizational Consistency and its Impact

• Tolerating bad employees erodes morale (“Nothing kills a good employee faster than you tolerating a bad one”).
• Consistent discipline and clear expectations are key to developing a high-performing organization.

[57:31] Challenges for the Next Generation

• Shapiro identifies trends: intergenerational differences, increased scientific and educational focus, complex policy landscapes, and the need for detailed, written procedures—especially after critical incidents.

[60:11] Exceeding the Minimum Standard

• Minimum standards may suffice in some cases, but striving for excellence (especially in high-risk scenarios) is essential for safety and effectiveness.

[65:48] Prepared vs. Ready

• Huge distinction between having resources and being able to use them under pressure.
  • Quote [68:39]: “There's a difference between having all this stuff and being able to use all this stuff effectively. That's the difference between prepared and being ready to work.” — Shapiro

[69:18] Non-Negotiables of Leadership

• Do your job; decisions, risks, and realities of the job are inherently part of the oath.
  • Quote [72:26]: “You took an oath. ... That's your job.” — Shapiro

[86:52] Parting Advice: Training, Education, Experience

• Invest time and money in your own growth; these are essentials for future opportunity and leadership effectiveness.
  • Quote [88:13]: “There's no substitute for experience. None. You cannot substitute anything else ... you have to have some experience.” — Shapiro

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [11:09] Shapiro: “Everything I've done is irrelevant unless I can teach somebody else how to do it.”
• [21:21] “You needed to know everyone else’s job before you started giving orders ...”
• [34:44] “You can be greatest firefighter in the world to be the worst officer ... You have to find that balance.”
• [50:27] “Everything is a learning experience. Everything is an opportunity for you as an officer to spend time with these guys.”
• [54:50] “Nothing kills a good employee faster than you tolerating a bad one.”
• [68:39] “There's a difference between having all this stuff and being able to use all this stuff effectively. That's the difference between prepared and being ready to work.”
• [72:26] “You took an oath. That’s your job.”

Suggested Resources

• Books:
  • “An Insider’s Guide to Mentoring the Fire Officer” – Leigh Shapiro
  • “It’s Your Ship” – D. Michael Abrashoff
  • “Writing Without Bullshit” – Josh Bernoff (on effective written communication)
• Leadership Principle:
  • Communicate effectively—succinctly and with empathy—both in person and in writing.

Action Items for Listeners

• Actively seek out opportunities to learn outside your comfort zone (e.g., staff assignments, new certifications).
• Practice mentorship at all levels—find a mentor and be a mentor.
• Strive to be well-rounded: value both education and street experience.
• Own your decisions and stand by them, but be willing to adapt when needed.
• Ensure fairness and equity in access to development opportunities within your organization.
• Treat every moment and every task as an opportunity to teach, mentor, and build organizational culture.
• Remember, excellence comes not just from being prepared, but from being ready, willing, and able to put knowledge into action.

Closing

Shapiro’s passion for developing future leaders shines through, emphasizing that training, education, and actual experience are the “golden key” to advancement and effective leadership. The conversation is authentic, practical, and inspirational—a must-hear for fire service professionals and leaders in any high-stakes field.

Contact & Next Steps

• Find Leigh Shapiro: All major social platforms, Fire Engineering Magazine, FDIC International
• Next Guest: Lt. Ash Shapiro, Rescue Company, Hartford Fire Dept. — bringing a new generational perspective on company officer leadership.

Critical Timestamps:

• [03:01] Early influences & why Hartford
• [08:57] “Not so fast” on promotion
• [14:13] On testing for every job
• [21:21] Importance of being well-rounded
• [24:58] Value of staff assignments
• [34:44] Education vs. street cred
• [44:00] Organizational skills & emotional maturity
• [50:27] In-the-moment mentoring
• [54:50] Organizational consistency
• [65:48] Prepared vs. ready
• [69:18] Non-negotiables in leadership
• [86:52] Final thoughts: training, education, experience

“Do your job. Train, educate, experience—and figure it out.” — Deputy Chief Leigh Shapiro