Episode Summary: Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table
Ep. 89: Ash Shapiro, Lieutenant – Getting the Job Done
Date: December 30, 2025
Host: Berlin Maza
Guest: Lt. Ash Shapiro, Hartford Fire Department
Episode Overview
In this engaging episode, Lieutenant Ash Shapiro of the Hartford Fire Department joins host Berlin Maza for a candid, unfiltered conversation about leadership, growth, and adaptability within the fire service. The discussion centers around taking initiative, embracing challenges, and the importance of building up others, especially when things don’t go as planned. Shapiro shares personal experiences, leadership philosophies, and practical advice for both emerging and experienced leaders.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The "Getting the Job Done" Philosophy
Theme: If the next guy isn’t going to get it done, who will?
- Shapiro explains the importance of personal accountability in a team setting:
- Taking ownership versus waiting for someone else to act (04:02)
- "If we can't get the job done, who else? I'm not going to ask somebody to do my job. So let's just, let's do what we came here to do." (Lt. Shapiro, 04:20)
- The concept applies regardless of title—everyone’s job is essential; no hiding or waiting for a handout.
2. Non-Traditional Path to Leadership
Reluctance and Timing:
- Shapiro wasn't chasing rank early in his career, preferring to gain experience, especially in roles he loved (busy technical units, hands-on positions) rather than advancing for the sake of promotion.
- Failing his first lieutenant’s exam became a pivotal, positive growth moment (09:22, 10:39):
- “I had a very rough first five years. I was a knucklehead...but it’s brought me to where I am now. Flunking that first test...so be it. It wasn’t meant to be.”
- Emphasizes the danger of "thinking you know it all" too early (06:54), and the value of real-world seasoning.
3. Embracing Change and New Roles
Discomfort is Growth:
- Shapiro describes the anxiety of leaving a comfort zone when unexpectedly assigned to new roles or units:
- “One day you were on the rescue...Bam! Next shift you’re moved to a different part of the city...forced you to do something that is brand new.” (14:51)
- New assignments provided valuable experiences, made him a more well-rounded firefighter and future leader (16:09):
- “You just take all that and wrap it into one whole package and it just makes you more rounded. At least in my experience.”
4. Administrative vs. Operational Experience
Worth of Admin Assignments:
- Shapiro candidly shares his preference for operational assignments over purely administrative ones (17:02, 18:48).
- Acknowledges some value in admin experience for those aspiring to highest ranks, but, “when it comes down to the street tactics, the meat and potatoes of getting the job done...I don't see a value in it if I'm on an engine or a ladder” (18:48).
5. Leadership Advice for New & Aspiring Leaders
Key Takeaways:
- Don’t micromanage: “If you have to tell them you're in charge, you've lost the battle” (22:11).
- “Take the job seriously, but don’t take yourself too seriously.”
- It’s on you to watch, learn, and pay attention—even without constant formal instruction.
- “Ask questions, keep your eyes open, don’t keep your eyes glued to your phone—just watch people.” (24:13)
- Challenge of transitioning to leadership:
- Establishing early trust and cohesion with new crews by setting clear intentions and engaging in daily, hands-on drills (25:03, 27:30).
- The value of repeatedly doing the fundamentals when in new roles.
6. Building, Supporting, and Rehabilitating Team Members
- The real test of a leader is what happens when a teammate is struggling:
- “I have no problem with kicking a guy when he’s down to break his balls at work. But once he’s down, it’s our job to build them back up so you can build up their confidence...” (Lt. Shapiro, opening and 49:39)
- "If you’re just going to sit back and point your finger and laugh all the time, then you’re the problem." (49:39)
7. Handling Weaknesses and Responsibility as an Officer
- It's every officer's job to ensure everyone finds their place to contribute, even if someone isn’t a natural. And if someone truly can’t or won’t do the work:
- “If the next guy isn’t gonna get it done, who will? ...I guess I’ll do it. I’m paid to be here, paid to do a job, so I’ll get it done.” (49:39, 52:01)
- Stay ready to step in, model the desired behavior, and never avoid the dirty work just because of a title.
8. Pivotal Career Moments
- Significant events include personal close-calls and a department-wide exodus (late 2013—2016). These forced him and others to grow up fast and take on more responsibility (33:48-38:24).
- “Now you're it. Now you're the guy. And you look around, all right, there's nobody else. It's just us. Now we have to really grow up on the fly and get the job done.” (36:09)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “If the next guy isn't going to get it done, who will?”
(Theme throughout, explicitly at 04:02 and 52:01) - On mentorship and learning:
“Just because someone isn’t showing you what to do doesn’t mean you’re not gaining anything out of it. It’s on you to pay attention and to look at everybody and their mannerisms of what they’re doing.” (22:35) - On dealing with setbacks:
“I don't regret any of that because it’s brought me to where I am now. And flunking that first test and not doing well, so be it. It wasn’t meant to be.” (09:22) - On supporting underperforming teammates:
"I have no problem with kicking a guy when he's down to break his balls at work, but once he's down, it's our job to build them back up so you can build up their confidence and show them, all right, you've screwed up, but this is how it's supposed to be done and just work on it...We'll work together. We'll get you to where you need to be. If you're just going to sit back and point your finger and laugh all the time, then you're the problem." (00:01, 49:39) - On leading with humility:
“Take the job seriously, but don’t take yourself too seriously. The job is what it is; it’s life or death...but there’s no reason to be Hitler in the firehouse.” (22:12)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:01 – Shapiro’s core leadership principle: support those who struggle
- 04:02 – Introduction and meaning behind “If the next guy isn’t going to get it done, who will?”
- 09:22 – Impact of failing the lieutenant's test
- 14:51 – The discomfort and value of being pushed into new assignments
- 22:11 – Essential advice for emerging leaders
- 25:03 – 27:30 – Challenges and solutions transitioning into a lieutenant role
- 33:48 – 38:24 – Department changes and pivotal moments
- 49:20 – Approach to struggling team members and building them up
- 52:01 – 52:15 – “If the next guy isn’t going to get it done, who will?” as a full-circle lesson
- 54:49 – Final thoughts and sign-off
Actionable Insights & Advice
- Focus on the present role: Master where you are; don’t chase titles for their own sake.
- Seek discomfort: Growth happens when you’re forced into new, challenging roles.
- Observe and learn from everyone: Sop up knowledge by watching, listening, and asking questions.
- Support and uplift: If you see a teammate struggling, poke fun—but then build them back up with practical support.
- Never be above the work: If someone isn’t pulling their weight, step up and get the job done.
- Stay present and enjoy the work: “The job goes by quick. Enjoy your time while you can. Try to have as much fun as you can while you’re there and keep you and your guys safe.” (54:49)
Challenge and Closing
- Ash Shapiro challenges his captain, Andrew Bell, to appear on a future episode, highlighting the challenges of leading senior crews as a newer officer (53:35).
This episode delivers a bracing dose of honesty, humility, and pride in the fire service—and translates lessons widely to anyone looking to lead with authenticity and grit.