Ep. 89: Ash Shapiro, Lieutenant - Getting the Job Done

Summary

Episode Summary: Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table

Ep. 89: Ash Shapiro, Lieutenant – Getting the Job Done
Date: December 30, 2025
Host: Berlin Maza
Guest: Lt. Ash Shapiro, Hartford Fire Department

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Lieutenant Ash Shapiro of the Hartford Fire Department joins host Berlin Maza for a candid, unfiltered conversation about leadership, growth, and adaptability within the fire service. The discussion centers around taking initiative, embracing challenges, and the importance of building up others, especially when things don’t go as planned. Shapiro shares personal experiences, leadership philosophies, and practical advice for both emerging and experienced leaders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Getting the Job Done" Philosophy

Theme: If the next guy isn’t going to get it done, who will?

• Shapiro explains the importance of personal accountability in a team setting:
  • Taking ownership versus waiting for someone else to act (04:02)
  • "If we can't get the job done, who else? I'm not going to ask somebody to do my job. So let's just, let's do what we came here to do." (Lt. Shapiro, 04:20)
• The concept applies regardless of title—everyone’s job is essential; no hiding or waiting for a handout.

2. Non-Traditional Path to Leadership

Reluctance and Timing:

• Shapiro wasn't chasing rank early in his career, preferring to gain experience, especially in roles he loved (busy technical units, hands-on positions) rather than advancing for the sake of promotion.
• Failing his first lieutenant’s exam became a pivotal, positive growth moment (09:22, 10:39):
  • “I had a very rough first five years. I was a knucklehead...but it’s brought me to where I am now. Flunking that first test...so be it. It wasn’t meant to be.”
• Emphasizes the danger of "thinking you know it all" too early (06:54), and the value of real-world seasoning.

3. Embracing Change and New Roles

Discomfort is Growth:

• Shapiro describes the anxiety of leaving a comfort zone when unexpectedly assigned to new roles or units:
  • “One day you were on the rescue...Bam! Next shift you’re moved to a different part of the city...forced you to do something that is brand new.” (14:51)
• New assignments provided valuable experiences, made him a more well-rounded firefighter and future leader (16:09):
  • “You just take all that and wrap it into one whole package and it just makes you more rounded. At least in my experience.”

4. Administrative vs. Operational Experience

Worth of Admin Assignments:

• Shapiro candidly shares his preference for operational assignments over purely administrative ones (17:02, 18:48).
• Acknowledges some value in admin experience for those aspiring to highest ranks, but, “when it comes down to the street tactics, the meat and potatoes of getting the job done...I don't see a value in it if I'm on an engine or a ladder” (18:48).

5. Leadership Advice for New & Aspiring Leaders

Key Takeaways:

• Don’t micromanage: “If you have to tell them you're in charge, you've lost the battle” (22:11).
• “Take the job seriously, but don’t take yourself too seriously.”
• It’s on you to watch, learn, and pay attention—even without constant formal instruction.
  • “Ask questions, keep your eyes open, don’t keep your eyes glued to your phone—just watch people.” (24:13)
• Challenge of transitioning to leadership:
  • Establishing early trust and cohesion with new crews by setting clear intentions and engaging in daily, hands-on drills (25:03, 27:30).
  • The value of repeatedly doing the fundamentals when in new roles.

6. Building, Supporting, and Rehabilitating Team Members

• The real test of a leader is what happens when a teammate is struggling:
  • “I have no problem with kicking a guy when he’s down to break his balls at work. But once he’s down, it’s our job to build them back up so you can build up their confidence...” (Lt. Shapiro, opening and 49:39)
  • "If you’re just going to sit back and point your finger and laugh all the time, then you’re the problem." (49:39)

7. Handling Weaknesses and Responsibility as an Officer

• It's every officer's job to ensure everyone finds their place to contribute, even if someone isn’t a natural. And if someone truly can’t or won’t do the work:
  • “If the next guy isn’t gonna get it done, who will? ...I guess I’ll do it. I’m paid to be here, paid to do a job, so I’ll get it done.” (49:39, 52:01)
• Stay ready to step in, model the desired behavior, and never avoid the dirty work just because of a title.

8. Pivotal Career Moments

• Significant events include personal close-calls and a department-wide exodus (late 2013—2016). These forced him and others to grow up fast and take on more responsibility (33:48-38:24).
  • “Now you're it. Now you're the guy. And you look around, all right, there's nobody else. It's just us. Now we have to really grow up on the fly and get the job done.” (36:09)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If the next guy isn't going to get it done, who will?”
  (Theme throughout, explicitly at 04:02 and 52:01)
• On mentorship and learning:
  “Just because someone isn’t showing you what to do doesn’t mean you’re not gaining anything out of it. It’s on you to pay attention and to look at everybody and their mannerisms of what they’re doing.” (22:35)
• On dealing with setbacks:
  “I don't regret any of that because it’s brought me to where I am now. And flunking that first test and not doing well, so be it. It wasn’t meant to be.” (09:22)
• On supporting underperforming teammates:
  "I have no problem with kicking a guy when he's down to break his balls at work, but once he's down, it's our job to build them back up so you can build up their confidence and show them, all right, you've screwed up, but this is how it's supposed to be done and just work on it...We'll work together. We'll get you to where you need to be. If you're just going to sit back and point your finger and laugh all the time, then you're the problem." (00:01, 49:39)
• On leading with humility:
  “Take the job seriously, but don’t take yourself too seriously. The job is what it is; it’s life or death...but there’s no reason to be Hitler in the firehouse.” (22:12)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:01 – Shapiro’s core leadership principle: support those who struggle
• 04:02 – Introduction and meaning behind “If the next guy isn’t going to get it done, who will?”
• 09:22 – Impact of failing the lieutenant's test
• 14:51 – The discomfort and value of being pushed into new assignments
• 22:11 – Essential advice for emerging leaders
• 25:03 – 27:30 – Challenges and solutions transitioning into a lieutenant role
• 33:48 – 38:24 – Department changes and pivotal moments
• 49:20 – Approach to struggling team members and building them up
• 52:01 – 52:15 – “If the next guy isn’t going to get it done, who will?” as a full-circle lesson
• 54:49 – Final thoughts and sign-off

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Actionable Insights & Advice

• Focus on the present role: Master where you are; don’t chase titles for their own sake.
• Seek discomfort: Growth happens when you’re forced into new, challenging roles.
• Observe and learn from everyone: Sop up knowledge by watching, listening, and asking questions.
• Support and uplift: If you see a teammate struggling, poke fun—but then build them back up with practical support.
• Never be above the work: If someone isn’t pulling their weight, step up and get the job done.
• Stay present and enjoy the work: “The job goes by quick. Enjoy your time while you can. Try to have as much fun as you can while you’re there and keep you and your guys safe.” (54:49)

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Challenge and Closing

• Ash Shapiro challenges his captain, Andrew Bell, to appear on a future episode, highlighting the challenges of leading senior crews as a newer officer (53:35).

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This episode delivers a bracing dose of honesty, humility, and pride in the fire service—and translates lessons widely to anyone looking to lead with authenticity and grit.

Transcript

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

I have no problem with kicking a guy when he's down to break his balls at work. But once he's down, it's our job to build them back up so you can build up their confidence and show them, all right, you've screwed up, but this is how it's supposed to be done and just work on it. We'll work together. We'll get you to where you need to be. If you're just going to sit back and point your finger and laugh all the time, then you're the problem. The First Responder Liaison Network is proud.

[Podcast Host]

To present to you the Kitchen Table podcast. Join us as we explore leadership from perspectives around the globe.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

From firefighters to fire Chiefs, civilians to.

[Podcast Host]

CEOs, our conversations have one simple goal. Build more leaders. Check for extension. Good morning and welcome Everybody to the 89th episode of the Kitchen Table. And on the show today, we welcome Lieutenant Ash Shapiro. And today we're going to unpack the philosophy and discussion on if the next guy isn't going to get it done, who will. Ash Shapiro is a lieutenant with the Hartford Fire Department in Connecticut. He's worked on some of the busiest engine and ladder companies at Hartford and he currently works on Attack One. Thanks for joining us on the show today, Lieutenant, how are you?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

I'm good. How are you?

[Podcast Host]

I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Thank you for joining us today. What is Capital City Industries?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Oh, yeah, that's a fire industry business that encompasses fire helmets specifically, but we also offer some nylon products like radio straps, holsters. Our main goal is to take a fire helmet that you would get out of the box today and make it look and fit like something you would get 20, 30, 40 years ago. Nice slow ride looks the part. Whereas nowadays everything is so over engineered, you have to rely on sucking that chin strap down super tight just to keep the helmet on your head. Whereas we'll come in and basically retrofit everything back to how things were, keeping everything still fairly safe. I mean, you're, you're modifying a helmet which goes without saying. You're not supposed to, but when the helmet doesn't stay on your head out of the box, that's kind of a safety problem in itself. So what we do is we retrofit, fit it so that it actually stays on your head and is comfortable to wear. And we just do business across the entire country with fire helmets. We have a plastic hook that was invented in Harford that we sell that's in half the country now. We have a washable adjustable nylon radio Strap that is doing fairly well on the market too. So we kind of do a little bit of everything. But fire helmets is our core of the business.

[Podcast Host]

Well, you guys been operating for many years, right? 20, 20 plus years. That sound right?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Since 2010.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, 2010. So okay, about 15 years. That's right, that's right. Well, before we dive deep into leadership, share a little bit about Ash Shapiro, your early career, where you're at now, where you work, and then we'll dive in.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

So I kind of live in a bubble, you know, I've met a lot of guys in passing through the business where they, they've told me I've taken like five, six or 10 tests. You know, I'm trying to get on a job somewhere and you know, I, I feel bad for him because I got very lucky. I took one test right out of high school for the city of Harford and I got in. I was supposed to be in a second class. I ended up getting hired as a fire cadet, which accelerated me to the first class. Started in October 2007, did the 14 week drill school and I've been there ever since. Literally just been doing firefighting since I was in my teenage years.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Wow. So let's talk about this concept today. If the next guy isn't going to get it done, who will? What does that mean?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Well, I'll preface that by saying when you were asking me, you know, what are concepts to discuss, that's just something I literally pulled out of my ass. When I, I don't know, when I think of maybe leadership, I look at who's, who's running the show here and who's gonna. There usually has to be like for a drill, for example, there's got to be one guy, there's got to be one, one guy to be the, to say this is how we're gonna do things and how, this is how it's going to get done. And when it comes to like the, the fire calls, you know, you'll see a lot of guys kind of doing their job. Some guys are just flat out hiding and it's like, well, yeah, like when I was on a ladder company. Well, if they're not going to get the roof, we got to get the roof, you know, so we'll get it, we'll get it done. Like if we can't get the job done, who else? I'm not going to ask somebody to do my job. So let's just, let's do what we came here to do. I guess that that's the Way to explain that, you know, I shouldn't have to have somebody else follow behind me or my guys and say, yeah, don't worry, you guys can take a break. We'll get it done for you. No, like, we'll, we'll do it. We're. We're here to do our job. And I, I don't know if that's the best way to describe leading the pack, for example, but.

[Podcast Host]

So you're, you're a lieutenant now. And I remember talking to your dad about this, and he said he was, you know, he's glad that you're a lieutenant, but you hesitated to take lieutenants. I understand you were working on, you know, busy ladder company. You were on. Were you on the rescue? And, and you wanted to stay where you were at and because you love what you were doing. You're at the busy house and, and he was glad that you took lieutenant's test. But there's probably a part of you that wants to stay where you're at today. We oftentimes see individuals, you know, that, you know, when's the next promotional exam? You were a little bit different. So can you talk a little bit about why? What drove you to kind of stay where you were at and why it was important for you to kind of stay, get experienced before you decided to step up and take that, you know, formal leadership position?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

No, there's a bunch of different reasons for that. The driving factor for that is I really liked where I was working. I was driving tack one. I had the responsibility of getting us there. And then at an actual fire, I would run my own team myself and the senior guy would go to the floor above, or we go where we were needed, right into the action. And I was running my own team, the responsibility of a lieutenant. But I didn't have the lieutenants pay, but I didn't have to do the paperwork either. It was great. And we went to all the good calls, extrications, buyers. I got to drive and actually get hands on. I wasn't just doing the job of a pump operator where you're driving an engine, was actually working with the hand tools and tech rescue stuff. And to me, it was the best job in the fire department. So I didn't want to give that up. But as far as hesitating to take the test, I took the test when I had about five years, five and a half years on, maybe it was a couple years after, but I didn't do so well on that one. And that was a blessing in disguise because I always say that's like the timeframe where guys think they have the job figured out but they really don't. You know, years five to ten where they think they can kind of just let things slide, sit back, take a breather and that's probably the more dangerous part of their career where yeah, you think you know, but you actually don't because you're in that lull of you got some experience but you really need a lot more to actually get a, a full understanding of the, the big picture as they say. And what me flunking that first lieutenant's test afforded for my career is, it just forced me to get more time on a job, more time on Attack Unit. We had an interesting time frame in 2016, around that time frame where half the job walked out the door and you know, now I was working an insane amount of overtime here, there, driving the red car, back on attack, working on an engine or a ladder. So I was able to get a lot more experience that was accelerated through that. But just holding off on the test overall and then focusing my efforts on, instead of worrying about promoting like so many other guys were, maybe I should be more focused on just doing a better job where I'm at and really getting that fine tuned so that I have a, I don't have it all figured out, but I have a pretty damn good understanding of what I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah, and a lot of guys, they got promoted very fast, which not to knock the balls off of them because my father got promoted after five and a half years on and he worked the promotion track all the way up to deputy. So it works great for some, it doesn't work great for others. Where they took it, took the job and they got promoted and now it's like, well, you've got the bars, but you're not really performing in the street. So just because you got the paycheck doesn't mean you really know what you're doing. And I mean you never know what you're going to get until the guy gets promoted anyways. But it, sometimes it just doesn't work out.

[Podcast Host]

How important or how pivotal was flunking that first test regarding your, where you're at now and you know, looking at the perspective and you know, I wouldn't.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Change anything if that's what you're asking, like if, you know, if you could go back and maybe do a better job. To me, it was pivotal in driving my career to where I am now. I, I don't have any regrets for any of the stuff that's gone on in the last 18 years. I had a very rough first five years. I was a knucklehead. I was constantly doing dumb. I was constantly getting in trouble. I had a running joke that I had a punch car to go see the chief. And by the fifth time, I'd get a free cup of coffee and donuts. Had my own chair up there. I don't regret any of that because it's brought me to where I am now. And flunking that first test and not doing well, well, so be. It wasn't meant to be. It's like, if I miss a fire, well, it wasn't my turn. It's not meant to be. And, you know, missing out on that one, but also being on the driver's list, well, I got to do that job instead. I was never, ever planning on being a driver, and that just kind of fell into my lap. And to me, that was the best time I've had on the job so far, was driving the tac unit, which, you know, now I'm having just as much fun now being on the other side of the front seat. But, yeah, the experiences that afforded me. Yeah, I can't turn that down.

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely. And I love that perspective, too. Is wherever. Wherever you're at, not you, but us, is the best spot. Right. And we have to think of it that way. Right. It's not, I wish I was in that spot. I wish I was in that spot. But it's about the spot that you're in right now. That's the best spot. Right. And you got to live in the present, live in the moment. You said that you end up driving, and you never really thought that you'd go to the engineer route, but you did. You end up driving the tech unit. You loved it. It obviously led to some experiences that you otherwise wouldn't have gained. Right. So talk about that journey. Like, you. You took Lieutenant's test. You end up not becoming lieutenant. Instead, you went driver. You got to do things that. It's like, man, I guess I never would like. How could you attribute that? The importance of that journey and going around that you never thought you would have taken, but how it led to a success of where you're at now and why. That was just. I'm just going to say it and correct me if I'm wrong, It's like, I'm glad it worked out that way.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Well, I dreaded driving every time I was up for a detail, whether I was on the. The engine or the ladder, which you had to Know your routes, which way to come in. So the ladders didn't come in the same way. The engines. You had to make sure you had a plug if your first, second or third do and, you know, five years or less. It was always nerve wracking to me because it's not my, my daily job. My daily job was to be in the back seat. So anytime I was up to drive, it was like, all right, I'm going to do the best I can, but this isn't what I normally do. And who wants to screw up? When it came down to driving on attack, it's the same thing. If the, the driver was out for the day, it's not position for position. One of the guys in the back would just slide up if nobody, no other driver was going to take the overtime. So you know the responsibilities of driving attacker, obviously getting the tools ready to go, checking the rig. But you have to drive through the entire city. And for a guy with not a lot of experience or a lot of time, when you get to that company, you're new, it's like, well, I don't know the whole city like that. And now I have to figure it out. But being there to drive again, I fell into my lab, I took the test for that. I deferred the job twice. And then I got a call right before the list was about to expire and I said, it's now or never if you want the job or not. And what afforded me that opportunity was the driver that I had at the time, Gary Lund. He, he told me right before that conversation, you know, look, it's time for me to slow down. I'm getting older, you're here, you're paying your dues, I'll pass the torch to you. If all the things line up, the stars align. And that, that phone call, I talked to the assistant chief at the time, he said, it's now or never. And I said, well, here's what we're trying to do. I can't speak for Gary's behalf, but this is what he would like to do and figure. I will figure it out, but we need to know, are you going to take the job? And I said, yeah, I'll take it. And that was like on a random Thursday or Friday, at 3 o' clock in the afternoon, it's like, all right, well, here's where you're gonna go starting next shift. So to me, it was difficult to take the job because, all right, I just worked my last shift at the tac after being here for a Few years. So I just literally am walking away from a place that I love being at, and now I'm gonna go drive an engine because I can't just take Gary's spot. I have to. I have to go somewhere else for a little bit until Gary's actually ready to slide out. And so that opportunity brought me to Engine 8. So I drove Ace for four months, which, again, I wasn't sure how that was going to go because I'm leaving the rescue company, which was awesome. And now I'm going to a busy engine, where even doing that brought me experiences that. It just made me better rounded, like, all right, so now it is my job to find the hydrants, the plugs, the best routes, get the guys there, hook up and look up, as they say. And I had a lot of fun doing that. It was just a new challenge for me that it forced me to grow out of my comfort zone.

[Podcast Host]

Perfect. Well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna lean on that even further because I loved everything that you said. You know, one day you were on the rescue, you're with a bunch of your buddies, you loved what you're doing, and bam, next shift, you're moved to a different shift, different, different part of the city forced you to do something that is brand new to you. You didn't know the city very well. Now you're driving engine, your job responsibilities changed. But a lot of times we don't get to. We us firefighters, we don't get to know the other side, right? So because, you know, we. We do love our comfort areas, right? We love the people we work with. We love the station. We love our job because it's comfortable. We know it very well. But sometimes it's difficult for us to just make ourselves go willingly. Meaning sometimes it's got to be, sorry, you're getting bumped. You're like, God damn it.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Really?

[Podcast Host]

But sometimes, not even sometimes most of the time later on, in hindsight, six months later, a year later, five years later, you're like, I'm actually glad that happened, right? Because of what you said, the new experiences, gaining a knowledge that you otherwise wouldn't have had. And so with you, like, being. How much would you say it attributed to your success now? Right? So let's fast forward how many years later you're now lieutenant, like, without that experience, obviously, we're talking anecdotally, right? But regarding, like, where you're at now, how much better did that set you up for your future?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Well, if you get a guy that sits in the back seat, for 20 years and all he knows is cutting roofs and forcible entry. Would you say he's a well rounded fireman? I would say yeah, for his job. But I think I got very lucky in the sense of I got to do a little bit of everything. Maybe not for a long time, but yeah, I rode the back of a ladder company for three or four years. I rode the back of an engine for a year. All right, well, I, I got to drive the ladder on details, but I also got to do the engine for a few months too, and, and see how that works out. So I mean, you kind of just, you take all that and you wrap it into one, one whole package and it just makes you more rounded. At least in my experience. You just have an understanding of other parts of the job.

[Podcast Host]

I'm gonna ask the next question is, have you ever done a day shift assignment, admin assignment?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Well, number one, no, I'd rather be a doer instead of a paper pusher. Two, I guess for an admin position. I don't know. The most admin position I would have ever said I'd done would probably be driving the red car, which, you know, you had my father on. He was a deputy chief. District one, we have two districts, district one and two, and they have an aide. So if the most admin position I would have ever done on that job is driving districts one or two on a detailer overtime, where you're driving a red car and you set up the command board or you got a clipboard with a pencil and you're jotting down everybody's assignments at a structure fire. And I would do that on overtime if that was the only spot available. But as far as coming off the line and doing a 9 to 5 job, never, no, that's not for me.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I asked that because, I mean, your dad and I, we, we discussed, you know, because he, you know, took positions because he wanted to. Whether it be the fire marshal's office, fire investigations, admin chief. And we talked about a little bit on, you know, there are admin spots, but you talked about well rounded. There's some knowledge, skills and abilities that can be learned on an admin spot, whether it be training, division, logistics. Right. You know, driving the red car. You say it. And so I ask it in the same context of like, if you did do an addition assignment for a year, six months, whatever, can you gain a set of experiences or knowledge that would make you better to make you well rounded? You're an individual that loves being, you know, on the trucks, and 99 of us do. And I kind of wanted to see your thoughts if that's something that's in your path or if you would see it valuable for leaders upcoming to say, you know what? I didn't want to drive, but I did and I loved it. I also didn't want to take an admin spot, but I took it and I loved it and I learned from it. So are your thoughts on that whole dynamic?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

I think there's value to it if that's your plan to move up, if you're planning on staying on a street level, you know, let's say you're a captain of the company and below lieutenant, driver, private. Whatever they do upstairs is their business and whatever we do on the street is our business. And usually there's a disconnect where they're out of touch with what's going on here. And at the end of the day, their problems are focused on, well, it's not enough money to buy everything we need or pay the bills. And I don't see any value in that on my end. If I was to be just a company officer personally now, if I was going to be, if my ambitions were to be a deputy chief, district chief, and yeah, it might be beneficial because I'll get the ins and outs of working with the administration at headquarters and what their plans are and what they need. Yeah, I could see that, but not when it comes down to, like I said, the street tactics, the meat and potatoes of getting the job done. I don't. Personally, I don't see a value in it if I'm on an engine or a ladder or the rescue company. And like, all right, my job is, we're splintery. Search, cut the roofs, get a line, stretch whatever they're doing upstairs to meet with city hall to get the budget passed for, get us more money. Has no bearing on what I'm doing in a building fire right now or a car of extrication, if that makes any sense. As far as on the level that I'm referring to for being on the line, as we say, like driving the deputy chief or district chief on a detail or overtime. I got a lot of that because just riding around with them, they were talking on the radio a certain way so you'd listen and Q into this is what they're listening for. This is what they want to hear on the radio. This is what they're expecting to hear as you're talking, like an mba, for example. They don't want to hear what color the car is how many doors, who hit who? They don't need a dissertation as to who's at fault. Do you have any patients? Do you have any fluids? And is there extrication? They're only looking for three key things, so the company officer should relay when they give their size up and they're investigating. Here are the three things, and can you handle it or not? To me, that driving a district or chief for the red car, knowing that that's what they're looking for. Okay, I pick that up from them. Whether even like a building fire, what are they looking for? Like, they have their own timestamps of what they need. They have obviously, like, lines in place, charge a line, or they're looking for the right report. That paints the picture for them, as they say. Keeps the situation calm. Lets them know the conditions inside are going the way it's supposed to be going. Like, those are tidbits that I picked up from driving the. The red car. Now, again, if I was going to be looking to go higher than captain, let's say I wanted to be a deputy thing, all right, well, if I'm on a deputy position, I got gold on my shoulder now. Yeah. If I went to an admin position to listen to what they had to hear say and how they work, all right, I can pick up on what they're looking for. But from where I'm at now, like, there's just no value in it. Personally.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I love the perspective because you are able to connect with our young listeners to a level that, you know, some of our other guests can't. We'll say, but if you were going to give an advice for a young emerging leader in the fire service, well.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Number one, you take the job seriously, but don't take yourself too seriously. The job is what it is. You know, it's life or death. You have to know what you're doing. But there's no reason to be Hitler in the firehouse. You know, when you got to do a drill and get the guys up to speed, you know, obviously it's all business, but learn how to have some fun. Learn how to mingle with the guys and get some laughs out of this shift. If you're going to show up and just be the guy who says, this is what I want, you know, and micromanage the. Out of guys 24 hours, you've lost the battle. If you're. If you're an aspiring leader and you have to tell them that you're in charge, you've lost the battle. You got to give them a long enough leash to let them do what they got to do. And you've got to know when to reel them back in to keep them out of trouble. But if you try to flex right off the rip, this is how it's going to be. And you're constantly up their ass, you will never get the respect of your own guys. The other thing is, if you're aspiring to lead, I guess, or just a fireman in general. Just because someone isn't showing you what to do doesn't mean, you know, you're not gaining anything out of it. It's on you to pay attention and to look at everybody and their mannerisms of what they're doing. How do you want to be treated if you're a back step guy? What are you looking for for your officer? You know, is your officer hiding in his office all day and only coming down through the meals? Well, then, you know, he's probably a hunk of shit if he's doing that. You know, if you ask your officer, hey, I need a problem, something's wrong with my clothing. I need new uniforms or something. Oh yeah, I'll get to it. And then there's no progress in a year. Like, pay attention to what they're doing. You're gonna pick up little cues from every single person you work with as far as leadership, if that's what we're staying on. See how other guys treat their crews. And then you can kind of gauge how your style is going to be from there. But that goes across the board with, you know, some guys want to show you some stuff, but some guys don't know how to show you some things. Just pay attention, pay attention to them in general, and they'll show you everything that you kind of need to know, like how to force a door, how to cut the roof, how to, how to even do your housework. Like just pay attention to every little thing. Ask questions too. They'll show you. Keep your eyes open. Don't keep your eyes glued to your phone. Just watch people.

[Podcast Host]

Pay attention. Watch people. So it's, it's basic, it's simple. We could all do it. Would you mind sharing one of your experiences? You know, transitioning into a lieutenant spot? You're not, right? You're the boss now. You're the company officer in charge of a crew. Maybe some challenge that you went through and how you navigated through that and how you're able to build, you know, cohesion and so forth after going through a challenge.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

I've had it easy. How so well, when I got promoted, it was the same cases when I was a made driver. I didn't want to take the lieutenant's test. I didn't want to take the job. The guy I'd been working for for years, on attack, I've known him for 20 years before I even got on a job from riding with my father. I'd see him when I was a kid at twos. So working with him, he's my lieutenant, and he comes to me and says, if you put the effort in, you score high enough, then I'll pass the torch to you. Just, it'll take some time. You go do your time on an engine company somewhere if you get it, but, you know, we'll make it happen and say, all right, well, I guess if that's the case, then I'll actually, I'll put the effort in. I studied, came out number six. You know, everything kind of went according to how we were hoping it would go. And when I got promoted, I went to Engine 11 for four months. My biggest challenge going to elevens was I felt like I was starting over as not even an officer. Obviously, it's a new job. But even as a fireman, because, yeah, I had driven an engine. I had taken details through an engine. When I was a private, I'd slid the floor from Ladder 6 to Engine 1 many times. But now, being in charge of an engine, I'd already been on the tactical unit for seven or eight years between riding the back or driving. So now, to me, it felt like, yeah, it's a breath of fresh air, but I'm starting from scratch. I have to learn how to. Not really learn from scratch per se, but like, the ins and outs of pulling and stretching line into some of the buildings. We have, you know, the quirks of the crew. I've had the same guys for seven or eight years now, and now I have a totally different crew. I have to work with a crew with the expectation of, hey, guys, I'm here for you, but I'm not going to be here for the long run. But while I'm here, we're going to make this work. I had to set that tone with them from day one. Like, even though I'm here with short time, I'm not going to look at this as a stepping stone. Like, let's. Let's put all the effort in and we'll make the best of it until I'm gone. And getting them to understand that was a challenge, too, because I don't want them to think like, yeah, I'm here, but I'm not here. So I'll just, I'll see you guys at the end of shift. No, I, I need to succeed as much as you guys need to succeed and we have to pull this off together. So that would say that was my biggest challenge, going to an engine because, you know, working with new people, having to learn the different tactics. The area alone, we have a lot of our bread and butter calls, two and a half woods, free wood, three story bricks. That area has a lot of warehouses, a lot of big converted factories where the stretches are not cut and dry. So I had to really, you know, pull that out of my ass and figure out what's the best way to get this done and pull it off of Junior crew. Like they had, they had all been together for a few years, but it collectively, I think I had more time than all three of the people that were assigned there. So they're looking at me like, what can you offer us? And I'm looking at them like, well, how can you hold my hand too? So that was definitely my biggest challenge. But we work together. We, like I said, if you're going to be the officer that stays in their office all day until it's breakfast, lunch or dinner time, that's not how you would really do it. I tell them, this is what we're going to do every day. We're gonna give you, give you guys the morning, get yourself situated. 2:00 clock on a dot every day. Let's go grab a coffee and let's go drill. And it's not just going to be a paper drill. Going to find a building, we're going to pre plan it and we're going to pull a line every single day. And for four months, that's what we did. We throw in a deck on every now and then we throw in foam. We get the nuances of working with the engine. But if we weren't doing that, we were pulling a line every day until we got real nice with it. And coming from knowing the ins and outs of extrications, trench confined space, rope rescue, or the going to that, yeah, it was, it was cool. Again, I would never turn down an opportunity because it brought me to this point, but that was my biggest challenge. I had to learn how to be an engine officer.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I know we keep coming back to, you know, pushing yourself out into, you know, push yourself out of the comfort zone. And you said, you said a couple times, starting over, if you will, because I think we Would all, I think we would all agree that if we were able to take a new position, whether it be promotion or slide over to a new engine, ladder, whatever it is, if we could bring our buddies with us and be with the people that you owe, that you love, obviously we, we would all say, yes, let's do it right, but obviously that's not reality. We do get bumped, we promote out, we get new assignments and we work in new areas and work with people we never worked with before or work with people that we don't know very well. But there's a lot to learn from that. Like you said, like part of what you did every day to get better in your new position as an engine officer and know your area, know your crew is literally, literally every single day to go out and do a drill like that. Sometimes stuff like that doesn't take place. If you are very familiar with your area, you're very familiar with your crew. And so I'm not saying that you drill less because you know, drill is drill and just do different types of drills and different types of trainings. But there's something to be said about doing, whether it be fundamentals or doing things completely different because you're with different people or in a different set of circumstances. And so in your case, I don't want to say you made the best of it, because you did. But at the end of the day, it's about just getting better and doing something that you otherwise. I know I said this a few times, doing something differently because you don't know otherwise made you better. Right. And so where are you at now in terms of. Obviously that was early on when you promoted. And where are you at now? Are you with a crew that you've been with a long time? Are you in a semi new assignment?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

So when I referenced that, I, I had it easy. The crew that I left the tac unit on that I've been together with for seven or eight years is the same crew I have now. So my old officer slid out to a slower company because he's a short timer for retirement. And after four months on 11s, they slid me back in. So I'm, you know, the military, they say you have to go somewhere else because there's not the same level of respect if you come back as an officer. Well, yeah, I suppose, but I, the cohesiveness of this crew had been working well for so long. You could put, put me back there and it won't be a problem, you know, and that's what they did. I went Back to my guys. Like, here I am. All right. You know, in terms of lucky, like, even the guy that was riding the back seat while I was a driver, he promoted and took my driver spot. Everything just fell into place. It took a little bit of work. It took some other guys moving around, But I have my core guys that I've had since 2018. I. I just. I know their ins and outs. I know the quirks. And, yeah, I don't really have to drop the hammer for saying any of them. Like, we go to a call, they already know what I'm thinking, and I know what they're gonna do just based on how I've seen them work so long. So that's what I mean. I have it easy. I've known these guys for a while.

[Podcast Host]

You mentioned you got lucky and things fell into place. I actually don't believe that. I actually believe when you say lucky. I believe it was supposed to have happened that way because you put yourself in these positions, you went out, got detailed out for however many years, seven years. You got new experiences. The crews that you were working with got their new experience, and you came back together. It all worked out the way it was supposed to. Right. And everybody developed and they, you know, gained their experiences. And now it just so happened that you guys, you know, got back together. But I think that's the way it was all supposed to work out because you all went out and did your thing and. And so that's really cool to see that after many years, it's like, here we are. And you wouldn't be in that spot seven years ago or, you know, seven years ago, thinking like, well, if you take this position, you move up, you bump out. It's not like, will we ever get back together? Well, you never get to tell the future until you're in the future. And here you are seven years later. That's pretty cool. That's cool to hear that you guys made it back together as a crew.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Yeah. Nothing was ever set in stone or guaranteed.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

So when I did leave to drive eights, didn't know when I was coming back. It could have been six months, could have been three years. But I knew eventually I would go back. Happened to be four months. Same thing when I made engine officer. Yeah, I'll be back eventually. I just don't know if it's going to take a year. Three years, Six months. Took four months. Yeah. So lucky in that aspect.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Or what would you say has been.

[Podcast Host]

Your biggest pivot in your career? Whether it be an Assignment, a decision, something that happened that kind of changed the trajectory of your career and you'd attribute your success to that point.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

I'd say it's a combination of things, because I don't think there's any single pivot that really woke me up to the severity of our consequences. We had a fire in 20 designed late 2013, early 2014, where my crew and I got jammed up pretty bad. And if we were in a room three more feet, I don't think I'd be here right now talking to you. I'd either be severely disfigured or I'd be in a box. And that was definitely an eye opener as to. Yeah, there are consequences on this job. Maybe you should really open your eyes. And I'm not saying you've got to be a guy that goes out to every single conference that you can afford or, you know, do your bunker gear workouts and other that you see on the Internet right now, but you've really gotta pay attention and do the job. So that was one small pivot. Another one was our line of duty death shortly after that in 2014. Like, yeah, you guy could be at the slowest company, maybe, you know, a great fireman, poor fireman, whichever. But he's. He still ended up buying it on the job. And it happened to anybody. 2016, we had literally half the job walk out the door overnight. So people that I grew up with and knew, they were gone in an instant because of contractual problems. And now you're left there holding the bag of, all right, well, you're still here with a bunch of junior guys, and the job still needs to get done. He went from being the guy in the background with the senior guys doing the majority of the work because they knew what to do to, all right, now you're it. Now you're the guy. And you look around, all right, there's nobody else. It's just us. Now we have to really grow up on the fly and get the job done. That would probably be one of the bigger pivots. It's no longer just show up to work, have a few laughs, and here we are. You know, there's other senior guys that can really take care of. It's now you're it. So that was a big pivot. From then on, I would say it's been not smooth sailing. There's been a lot of bumpy parts of that road. But since everybody left, I looked at that as the opportunity of now is the time to really not. Not reinvent yourself. I would Never even consider that. Stay true to yourself. But now is the time to really build up something that you can work with. And when I got my guys in 2018, we had to do two years of overtime non stop, and then they finally hired more guys. And when I got Those guys in 2018, I saw that as the opportunity of we're all going to be together for a while. So let me get these guys up to speed as best as I can, make them the best firefighter that I think they can be. That way we're all on the same page and let's move forward together. And to me, that was, that was the pivot. I think that brings me to now. And now I think after all that, it's just been like riding the wave, if that makes sense.

[Podcast Host]

It does, it does. And I want to talk a little bit about this 2016, because I remember talking to your dad about the same thing. So when there's opportunity, we'll say when there's like say a mass exodus, mass retirements or whatever it may be merging with the fire department and where there's so many openings, we'll say there's two thought processes. When there's a massive opportunity in front of you because you have to fill spots, there's an opportunity to say, you know what, I'm going to work my ass off and prepare for those next spots, even if it's earlier than what I had, quote unquote planned, whatever that means to some people. But then there's also, well, the opportunities are there and a lot of us are going to just going to slide into those opportunities just because there's so many of them. I'm just going to assume that you were an individual and correct me if I'm wrong, that, you know, saw the opportunities and you put yourself in the best position, whether you're taking classes, you know, working with mentors, whatever, maybe to prepare yourself for those next steps. Talk about the importance of, or the dichotomy, if you will, of opportunities are there. And I'm going to do anything and everything I can to prepare myself for the need that's obviously presented in front of us versus waiting back and saying, you know what, the opportunities are there and I'm going to get mine when it comes.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Yeah, I mean, I, I think I look at that more in a sense of the opportunity was there not because, you know, I wanted it. There really was no other choice. Either you get this done now or it's just not going to get done, period. The, the job was an interesting place Back then, when I say half the job walked out, if our minimum manning was 72 per shift, I think we had maybe 30 guys to fill a shift, if that. So you, you do your day and then the next day is all, right, well, I'm here for overtime. If you wanted to, you could stay the day after for another overtime. If you wanted to, you could work seven days straight, no time off. You could have lived at the firehouse. So I think opportunity wise, if there's any opportunity just to be seen in that scenario, it was, number one, you can make a shitload of money, and number two, you're gonna gain a ton of experience, a shitload of experience in a vast amount of time. To me, I saw that as the money part is just, that's the luxury. But the amount of experience that you can gain in those two years, I don't think you'll be able to see that ever again until a bunch of guys are ready to bail out. Like what happened back then. That's. That's when I was going to, you know, a lot of good calls, fires and pin jobs on my shift. And I would work the overtime on a tour and do the same thing, but I would, if I wasn't in the backseat of the attack, I was driving it, or I was driving a red carpet district as an aide, and I would get a lot of experience doing that where I would come in a day before on sea tour, work that shift, get more experience, and then work my shift on detour and work another one on a tour. So I think the opportunity for that to make the best of the situation was you're expediting your experience when it comes to leadership. I don't know if personally that's something that can be taught out of a book. I, I don't want to put myself in any kind of pedestal. I, I think either you've got it or you don't, or you get a few tidbits. But, you know, maybe from a book, maybe not. I, I don't think I've ever picked up a book and decided I'm gonna get leadership out of this thing. Like, there's only one that I've actually read ever regarding leadership, and that's My father is not the plug. His. That's not my intent. But I've read other books like Band of Brothers or, you know, World War II books. That's a heavy interest of mine, just because of my grandfather. But when you ask the question, have you read any books that have contributed to your success in leadership? Unfortunately, no, I'm just not that kind of person. You know, leadership to me is more along the sense of taking care of your guys. What do they need? Making sure that they're, they're doing what they're supposed to do. They have all the tools for what they're supposed to do, you know, making sure they're safe, obviously. But as far as, you know, one thing that may have stuck with me subconsciously is like my grandfather, he didn't want to be a staff sergeant in the army. He was forced to do it. Guys around him were getting killed. They're getting plugged by the Germans, and who's the next guy up? All right, you're it, whether you like it or not. So, okay, well, we'll just do it. I wanted to be a driver. You don't want to be an officer. It's by my own hand that I got the promotion, but I. All right, well, we're going to make this work and we're going to do it. I don't think I would take the job just to say, all right, give me the paycheck and my guys can just do whatever and screw off. Like it's. That's not how it's done. That's why I say if it's, if the other guy's not getting a job done and who will? Who's going to step up and actually get this job done? And I don't know, here I am.

[Podcast Host]

I'm sure you're an individual that's been to conferences, classes throughout your career. What is one of the best classes that you took? Something that maybe our listeners here will look up because it was so influential on you and you liked it.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Honestly, the best class I've ever taken would be Forcible Entry, and that was taught by Rex Morrison as kid, but that was also, God, 15 plus years ago. I took that three times. That was very good because they kept it to the basics. This is what you need to know, this is what you do. And it was, it was no tricks. It was just the basics. And they, they worked on that rep after rep in real buildings, real scenarios. There's no substitute for the real thing. But they put you in real buildings. I, obviously it's not a leadership class, but that was the, the best class I ever took. I've been to some conferences, other training seminars. Again, for me, when it comes to how does a guy lead, lead his troops, I just paid attention to all the other guys on a job. Yeah, that guy's cool. He's got a few Flaws. Yeah, that guy kind of sucks. That guy doesn't take care of his own guys. He's only there for himself. I had one of my officers, Anthony Helis, he would come down and break bread with the guys at every opportunity. He would stay out of the office and hang out with his own guys. How do you learn how your crew is with their cohesiveness? How do you learn what their quirks are? It's not by hiding in the office. It's not by saying, I'm the guy in charge and, you know, I'm just waiting for the calls to come in. I'll see at the calls, guys now. I mean, if there's anything I learned from Tony, he would spend a lot of time with us in the kitchen or in the watch room or, you know, whenever we were drilling. And I think I picked that up from him quite a bit. I can say that when I'm at work. I think I'm in the office maybe five minutes in the morning to do the accountability and then see you later. Hang out with my guys. Not just because I'm friends with them. I mean, the part of being an officer is you can be their friends, but you can't be their friends. There's times where you have to draw the line. But I need to, like, know my guys. What are their quirks? What are their strengths and weaknesses? And you're not going to find that sitting on your ass in the office. You have to spend a lot of time with them. The calls will come here or there and a few and far in between. Or you have busy days. But actual time with them is what matters. Now. I've got one guy that has a certain way of learning things. I've got another guy that's a master with rope, but he kind of takes it a little too far at times and you got to know when to reel him in. Incredibly gifted with that stuff. I got another guy that has an idea in his head and has to see it work or fail. And then we, we pinpoint exactly. All right, this is what we're going to be doing from now on. Everybody's different, myself included. Like, they need to know where I'm coming from. They need to know how I. How stupid I can be at times or what I'm really good at. So how do they, how do they get to know me if I'm just gonna say, all right, I'm the boss. I'll see you guys in three or four hours at lunchtime. No, it's a two way street.

[Podcast Host]

Love it.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

My bottom line with that is I don't think, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not the guy to pick up a leadership book. Maybe it's written down somewhere, but I don't know if that can be taught in the book. The I, you know, get off your ass and care about your guys. I mean, you're going to get a few bad apples over your career, which sucks. But you've got to know what their strengths and weaknesses are too. And if they're weak across the board, well, at least get them good at one thing so you can rely on them for something.

[Podcast Host]

No, I love that perspective. Right. Because I always will tell. I mean I'll tell individuals about. This is like fortunately or unfortunately, however you want to look at it. We don't, as company officers, we don't get the luxury of picking our crews all the time. We don't always get the rock star or the recruit that comes out that's just performing the best, that was a valedictorian and you know, got chiefs company in the academy. Sometimes we just, you know, we get the recruit that, you know, out of 50 was the 50th strongest, okay, so be it. It's a company officer's job now to take that person and make them the best probationary firefighter, whatever that looks like. And so my point to that is like, yeah, I mean, you gotta, I mean you're gonna get individuals that aren't the strongest of certain things. You said, you know, you might get an individual that sucks across the board, but instead of saying, you know, that person should get fired, you basically just said, let's find something that that person can be good at. And I think that's what a leadership or a leader does is they find out the strength of your people, like what you're saying. Because you're going to get people that are strong in everything. That's cool. But that's not everybody, right? Not everyone's going to be strong across the board. It's leaders job and say, you know what, let's find out what works for you, what you're strong at. Let's bring it out of you and make you good. And that's your crew, right?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Yeah. I'd say on a technical aspect, when it comes to rescue work, obviously that's different. Just because if the guy ain't fitting in and doesn't have it, then it's time to move on, time to get rid of him. You know, it's a little different when you're, it's an engine or ladder, because there's so many more of those companies. There's only so many places to put a bad apple. So if you're stuck with them, then you know what? You've got to at least give them a chance and work with them before you make that determination. All right, it's time to move on, because the chiefs may not want to do that. I say there's two parts to that. You know, if they don't know what they're doing, maybe it's a confidence problem. Maybe they need to be shown. Maybe you need to build up their confidence. Hey, show them. This is what I would do. Now you, in turn, show me or have the other guys take a turn. Like, this is how it's done. Like, you got to get them involved. It could be that they don't have any mechanical aptitude because of their background. We hire a lot of inner city youth, per se, and they may not have been afforded the same opportunity as. As me. Like, I kind of know how to swim. I can hold my own. But some kids, some guys we hire from the city, like, yeah, we never went to the pool or anything. Or I don't know how to swim. Never had lessons. Like, all right, yeah, I get it. Well, so that. That can be applied to even something as far as how to use hand tools. Like, there was one time I got one of the newer kids didn't know how to use a snowblower, and he's out there struggling to fire it up, but he didn't want to look like an idiot, so he's just out there trying and trying. Then I'm hearing this from the other off groups as I come into work, like, yeah, look at this idiot. He doesn't know how to use a snowblower. And he's like, well, I have no problem with kicking a guy when he's down to break his balls at work, but once he's down, it's our job to build them back up so you can build up their confidence and show them, all right, you've screwed up. This is how it's supposed to be done and just work on it. We'll work together. We'll get you to where you need to be. If you're just going to sit back and point your finger and laugh all the time, then you're the problem. So there's that.

[Podcast Host]

I love that. It's so key, right? It's. It's like, yeah, you're right. We can make fun of each other all day long, right? And then fire Service we got to have, you know, thick skin and, you know, once you're down, what are you going to do? You'll leave them down there or you're going to do your job and lead and bring them back up. And so what you said was so key is like, all right, they're down. All right, now what are we going to do now?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

You build them back up. I mean, guys have to remember not everybody's going to be as smart as you. And not to say that I'm way above here. I do a lot of dumb stuff here and there every now and then, too. Like, I'm not a brainiac when it comes to some of the rescue works. There are some guys in the country that are incredible at this stuff. But we get by with what we do. You get a new guy in your company, you got to already know, like, they're not going to be as good as you. So you bring them up to your level as best you can. You want to get a few laughs out of it from the beginning? Sure, yeah. Yeah. You're an idiot. You suck at this. All right, let me put you to the side and we'll get you trained up. That's how it's supposed to be. At least from what I remember. That's what they get the senior guys did to me when I first came on because I was just a kid and I was stupid and it's like, hey, what are you doing now, you idiot, you shouldn't have done that. But they pull me to the side and they'd give me the tools that I needed to learn and grow from that. The I think for an officer's perspective, it's a second part to that would be, let's say you do get a bad apple and you work with them and you train and you try to get them up to where they need to be and they're just not cutting it. You have to keep that in the back of your mind. All right, well, if they're not going to get the job done and there's no recourse for this, don't be afraid to do the work yourself. As the officer, I've already heard through the years, many times, like one guy specifically said, I'm a non working supervisor, he's a lieutenant. And I thought to myself, when I was just a fireman hearing this, you mean to tell me that just because you got bars, you're not going to pick up the hand line if your guy decides not to do the job or you're not going to help Out. You're not going to pull ceilings. You're just going to point your finger. That's what it means to you. If your guy isn't getting it done, as long as you know that he's in a spot where he's not going to get himself hurt. All right, well, who's the next guy to do the work? I guess I'll do it. I'm paid to be here, paid to do a job, so I'll get it done. I think to me that. That there's more value with that just because sometimes you can't change the bad apple. Sometimes they just don't want to listen. Sometimes they don't give a. So if. If they don't want to cooperate, then all right, I'm at the ready, just in case.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I love it. It goes back to what we talked about. The very, very, very beginning is the next. If the next guy isn't going to get it done, who will? And I think that's. That's what you're talking about is all right, I'm gonna get it done. That's what I am. That's what I'm gonna do.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Yeah, I guess if it could come full circle, I should have probably spun it into that, like, all right, well, this guy isn't doing it. Well, I'm the officer. I'll step up. I'll. Somebody needs to step up and make sure the work gets completed. I mean, that comes in turn, even with a lot of the younger guys, they don't know what they don't know. They need somebody to absolutely. I mean, guide them is one thing, but let's say you're in a building fire and they don't know their limits, and you got junior officers, a junior crew. They're not making a real solid push on it because they haven't done it too many times. And you get there and, like, you know, we can go a little further. It's going to be okay. Come with us. You know it. Even if you're an experienced officer, I think it carries a lot of weight to the show. The younger guys, even if they are officers, this is what we can do. We can make this work.

[Podcast Host]

We're here today because your dad challenged you to be a guest on the show. And. And he said, you want to hear what you had to say. And so he's going to love this message. And I appreciate you, your time sticking around the firehouse today to spend with us. So to help us continue this conversation. Leadership, so it doesn't die down, I ask Is there someone else out there, fire service or not, that you would like to challenge to be the next guest on this show?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Yeah, I'll challenge my captain, Andrew Bell. He's a good public speaker. Just ask him.

[Podcast Host]

I don't know if that's that sarcasm or not, but it's gonna be. That's gonna be funny. That's gonna be awesome. So just for a little context, what is it about him that you'd like to challenge?

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Well, he's my captain, so he runs a company that I'm assigned to, so he's got a interesting situation of being he's the junior officer on the company and he's coming to a company that has a decent amount of senior guys. And I guess, I don't know, I'm not going to speak for him, but maybe his challenge is having to work with guys that have been there, you know, seven, eight, nine, ten years and he's now on the bottom of the roster. But he has to run the entire place and he has to get that cohesiveness for the entire company and just get us on the right path, which he has done. So Love it.

[Podcast Host]

I love it. Before we close today, again, I want to say thank you for giving up an hour of your your time. I like to say this. What would you like to leave our listeners with today as your lasting thoughts before we close? Today's Conversation.

[Lieutenant Ash Shapiro]

Job goes by quick. Enjoy your time while you can. Try to have as much fun as you can while you're there and keep you and your guys safe.

[Podcast Host]

Thanks everyone for tuning in today to the kitchen table. Truly hope you found this time valuable and we hope we've inspired you to take action, to lead and to spread the leadership. Conversation. Until next time, be safe, be intentional, stay curious.