Leadership Conversations @ The Kitchen Table

Episode 96: Trisha Wolford, Fire Chief - Perspective & Gratitude

Date: April 12, 2026
Host: Captain Berlin Maza
Guest: Fire Chief Trisha Wolford, Anne Arundel County Fire Department, MD

Episode Overview

This episode features a deeply candid and insightful conversation with Fire Chief Trisha Wolford, who leads one of the nation’s largest combination fire departments in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. Chief Wolford shares her non-traditional journey to the fire chief role, her thoughts on leadership development, the value of outside perspectives and gratitude, the realities of “wants vs. needs” in fire service, and how to remain grounded and effective—even through criticism and change. The discussion is rich with actionable advice for both emerging leaders and seasoned professionals, balanced by real-life stories from the firehouse kitchen table.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chief Wolford’s Career Path: Non-Traditional and Intentional

• Journey Breakdown (07:09-13:09):

  • Started in Maryland, moved for career growth due to bureaucratic limitations.
  • Sought both administrative and operational skills, prompted by a coach:

    "I ended up getting a coach because I said, I’m going to come back and be chief of this department, but I don’t have any skills. ... We divided it administratively and operationally. And she goes, 'Okay, well, you’re going to have to move.'" (09:25)

  • Spent time in Bozeman, MT (administratively-focused), Spokane, WA (operational focus), then returned home as chief.

• On "Skipping" Ranks (13:45-18:27):

  • Chief Wolford was never a captain, battalion chief, or division chief.
  • She intentionally sought the necessary skills outside the traditional path:

    “I just felt like at my core, either I can control my time in the fire service or a system can control my time.” (16:23)

  • Values listening to those who held ranks she didn’t, “because I really didn’t spend a lot of time riding the right front seat.” (13:55)

2. Challenging Tradition and Embracing Coaching

• Cultural Adherence to ‘The Path’ (19:57-22:05):

  • Wolford and Maza discuss resistance to breaking the promotion ‘rules’ and how skill development should trump time-in-rank.

    “These paths, it holds some people back sometimes. Would you agree?"
    "Yes, yes, and a thousand percent. And it’s very frustrating.” (20:44)

• Value of Coaching (18:36-19:51):

  • Cold-called a respected professional to serve as her coach, emphasizing boldness and impact.

    “I called her and I said, hey… you said if I ever need anything. And I go, and I'm that person. And this is what I need. Will you do this with me?” (19:44)

• On Leadership Development (42:55-47:23):

  • Expresses frustration at fire service’s lack of built-in leadership development:

    “I'm disappointed that I'm not a leadership academy... it really gets down to that struggle of a decision making.” (42:59, 43:03)

  • Leverages outside connections for informal mentoring when budgets are tight.

3. Kitchen Table Conversations: The Realities of Firehouse Leadership

• The Emotional Importance of Uniform Policy (24:15-29:20):

  • Uniform details are “the emotional hug that firefighters are always looking for.” (24:24)
  • Story of enforcing and policing uniform standards, how these become stand-in topics for bigger cultural concerns.

• Visiting Stations and Field Leadership (28:50-30:27):

  • Makes a point to visit stations alone, enjoys riding calls with crews to genuinely connect.

    “The best thing is if you get a call, I’m all like, move over. … I gotta get in the back too.” (29:56) “I am honest about. I am an administrative. That. Right. My job is the fire chief. ... I don’t deserve to sit in that seat.” (30:12)

• Building Trust as a Non-Traditional Chief (30:46-34:55):

  • Immediately met with skepticism (“Not enough dark, smoky hallways.” 30:53)
  • Held over 100+ station visits at start, asked members for “three things you want to change and three things you don’t want me to put my hands on.” (31:34)

    “I said, let me earn it. I know I gotta earn it. I’m not coming in here going, I’m the chief.” (32:40)

  • Only believes in delivering results (“I’m going to get one of these things done. At least one of these things done.” 32:14)

• Leadership at Every Level (34:55-35:57):

  • Refuses to say, "When I was captain..." acknowledging the difference in scope and experience.
  • Focus is on ‘support’ and solving problems as articulated by members.

4. Wants vs. Needs and Managing Expectations

• Budget Limitations, Needs vs. Wants (36:33-39:22, 41:24-42:10):

  • Transparent about financial constraints, uses relatable home budgeting analogies.

    "Maybe you can't buy all of your appliances at once. Like, same thing with the fire department." (37:46)

  • Sometimes the answer is a hard “no”, but she seeks to manage expectations empathetically:

    “Wants versus needs. ... The bigger part of want versus need is managing expectations.” (37:44)

  • Presents “shorts and shoes” as an example of redirecting proposals productively (39:22-39:32).

• On Fire Service as a Business with Tradition (41:24-42:10):

  “When I say no, that’s a business decision, and we forget that I’m a CEO. ... Our client is the community member.” (41:24)

5. Responsibility for Professional Development

• Who Owns Leadership Growth? (45:59-47:23):

  • Both individual and department bear “100% responsibility”:

    “If you tap onto that, I will go on the other extreme and also say it’s all to the departments 100% response. … It’s 100, 100 in my opinion.” (46:17)

• Mentorship: Be Bold (48:55-49:22):

  • Seek mentors aggressively; “What do I have to lose if they say no? … I’ve never had anybody say no.” (49:19, 49:32)
  • Fitness for leadership is in initiative, not waiting for formal programs.

6. The Reality and Cost of Leadership

• Unseen Challenges of Being Chief (50:24-53:16):

  • Emotional investment in members can go unacknowledged or be publicly criticized post-retirement.

    “There are so many firefighters that fire chiefs really invest into … and then normally those firefighters are the first ones on social media, tearing up the department, tearing up the fire chief…” (50:30)

  • The deep personal disappointment and need to remain above the fray.

• The ‘Cost’ of Leadership (53:22-57:31):

  • Paraphrases Kirby Smart (Georgia Bulldogs Head Coach):

    “Good leaders make hard decisions that negatively affect people that you love and care about. Good leaders are disliked despite making every attempt... True leaders are misunderstood often and won’t always have the opportunity to defend themselves.” (53:22-54:26)

  • Wolford: “The Bible. Right? Let me etch that in stone. Yeah, that. That is ... really, really good. ... It’s okay to cry when you’re making the right decision.” (54:26)
  • Acceptance that leadership comes with necessary pain and misunderstanding.

7. Lessons from Failure and Moving Forward

• Handling Professional Setbacks (57:52-61:39):

  • Did not get the first chief job she applied for; equates handling rejection to athletic discipline:

    “My answer has always been this is sport, not war. I didn’t get the job. I got to go to two a day sessions. ... I wasn’t ready to go to one a day. ...” (61:28)

• 24-Hour Rule for Processing Failure (62:03-63:32):

  • Personal rule to allow 24 hours for disappointment, then move on:

    “I have a 24 hour rule. ... And as soon as I hit that 24 hour mark, you’re done, Wolford. No more. Put it away.” (63:00)

8. Perspective & Gratitude: Wolford’s Core Leadership Values

• On What She’d Teach Every Leader (64:55-66:30):

  "Perspective and gratitude. Having a perspective of something outside of your world, your department, and then being grateful for what you have..." (65:50, also opening quote at 00:01)

9. Closing Reflections: Permission to Grow and Permission to Leave

• Final Message to Listeners (69:36-71:42):

  “If you really feel like you’re in it and you’re making a difference... put in for it or, or try it or... don’t feel restricted. ... The flip side of that is ... it’s okay to leave. ... Be an individual, do what makes you happy in the career field. ... You really have to be true to yourself, that this is what you want and that you want it for the right reasons.” (69:36)

Memorable Quotes

• On Leadership Instinct:
  “I just felt like at my core, either I can control my time in the fire service or a system can control my time.” (16:23)

• On Promotion Paths:
  “Leadership is not a rank … you have to have the skills, not just the time in the seat.” (15:42 paraphrased)

• On Trust-Building:
  “Let me earn it. ... I’m not coming in here going, I’m the chief.” (32:40)

• On Feedback and Wants vs. Needs:
  “I think the bigger part of want versus need is managing expectations. ... I’m always for ask, ask. But I always say, don’t be offended if somebody tells you no.” (38:18)

• On Professional Growth:
  “Both individual and department must take 100% responsibility for development.” (46:17)

• On Failure & Resilience:
  "I have a 24 hour rule. ... Mark the clock … and as soon as I hit that 24 hour mark, you’re done, Wolford. No more.” (63:00)

• On Perspective and Gratitude:
  “Perspective is hard to gain if you don’t get out and gratitude gets forgotten very easily.” (00:01 & 66:30)

Notable Timestamps

• Pandemic Career Moves & Coaching: 07:09–13:09
• Nontraditional Paths, Skill Acquisition: 13:45–18:27
• Mentorship & Coaching Importance: 18:36–19:51
• Uniform Policy as Leadership Microcosm: 24:15–29:42
• Station Visits & Building Trust: 29:07–30:27, 31:34–34:55
• Budget Reality & Managing Wants/Needs: 36:33–39:22
• Business vs. Tradition in Decision-Making: 41:24–42:10
• Department vs. Individual Responsibility: 45:59–47:23
• Seeking and Accepting Mentors: 48:55–49:32
• The Cost of Leadership: 53:22–57:31
• Dealing with Disappointment, 24-Hour Rule: 62:03–63:32
• Wolford’s Lasting Message: 69:36–71:42

Actionable Takeaways

• Seek outside perspective and value gratitude, especially as you progress in your career.
• Challenge the "we’ve always done it this way" mentality by focusing on skills, not just time-in-rank.
• Leadership growth is everyone’s responsibility; seek mentors, even outside your organization.
• Manage wants vs. needs with transparency. Balance emotion with the realities of the “business.”
• Process failures with intention, but don’t dwell; adopt a limit (e.g., the 24-hour rule).
• Remember why you serve. Step away if it no longer brings fulfillment.

Book Recommendation

• The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein

  “At our core, everything we do in this business is basic instincts of customer service and being a good human. And that book has all those lessons woven into it...” (65:03)

Leadership Challenge Guest

• Challenge to invite: Recently retired Fort Worth, TX Fire Chief Jim Davis

  “He really is highly proficient fire and EMS side of the house, ... hard charger, old school firefighter, nicest guy.” (68:01)

This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about effective, resilient, and progressive leadership—inside or outside the fire service. Chief Wolford embodies intentional growth, transparency, and humility, leaving listeners not just with theory, but with steps and stories to inform their own leadership journey.