Ray Spadoni (5:02)

Great, great. Thank you. Christine Glenn.

Glenn Half (5:07)

Yes, right. For me, my first experience with ISP was kind of a slow story. I was in the back of a church in the lobby, standing by a heater in the winter and just kind of debating whether to step outside into. It was about February, about 10 degrees out, and I had just gone into church for a little quiet time. And on the bulletin board was a card which turned out to be inviting me to what they call tune ups in Boston from ISP. They are very similar to be like a 12 step meeting. We follow the same type of principles and we just read a little something, either a passage from scripture or something just something spiritual, and we kick it around the room and everybody's invited to share, which they don't have to, but it's just an open forum of fellowship. And I had the card and I thought, boy, you know, I know a lot of people that, that are looking for exactly this that were in 12 step others, 12 step programs that wanted to go deeper spiritually. And I carried in my wallet to hand it off to someone and about two years later, I was at St. Francis House and I look up and there's a picture of the card I've been carrying. And it was time for a tune up. But it was only a Wednesday, and it happened to be Wednesday, but it's at 10 o' clock and it was 9:57 in the morning. So I said, I think I'm going to my first tune up. So the card that I carried was meant for me. So I was typically, I'm a slow learner, but I got there. And as soon as I got there, I just knew this was something I kind of was trying to find on my own. Just a thirst to go deeper with my spiritual connection. And here the work was laid out for me and I didn't have to reinvent the wheel or anything. It was something that I was kind of, where have you been all my life? And anxiously wanted to go deeper and share it because I felt it wasn't something normally I'm used to going, I'm not ready yet. I have to learn more. I have to learn more before I can tell other people what I found. But ISP didn't strike me that way. It was just an open door for fellowship, where they say that lived, experience matters. Whatever you have in your life is of value. And we get. When we sit around in a group, we call it a sacred circle. And it's. Everybody's story is sacred and there's no judgment, there's no. There's no comparison. I never experienced anything as welcoming and comforting as that. And it's a human makeup. So you'll have your cliques and you'll have your people that you lean towards and people you try and maybe take a step back, but that's. That's just humanness. But I just feel very comfortable there. And it's in simple terms, I didn't have to study anymore. It was all there for me.

Ray Spadoni (8:26)

Great. And I'm sure we'll get into later some of the volunteer work that you do. But it's interesting. You saw a card on the bulletin board that resonated to you somehow, thinking it would be useful for others, not knowing that sometime later you were kind of grabbing it for yourself. So, you know, funny how. Funny how these stories play out sometimes.

Glenn Half (8:49)

Amazing. God's got a sense of humor.

Ray Spadoni (8:52)

Always. Angelica, how did you first come in contact with isp?

Angelica Santana (8:59)

I was stuck in a really vicious cycle of addiction. And it was years that I was stuck in this cycle. I couldn't get out of it no matter what I did or how I tried to stop. There was no resolution. The drugs just had me and I hit a brick wall. I found myself literally living on the streets. Once successful, once a straight a student, once married, able to hold a job. And, and now I'm in a place where I'm literally on the streets with my cat and nowhere to go. And it is freezing outside. And I reached out to help at a day shelter. I went to a day shelter. I heard that they had services and I needed help. I had nowhere to go. ISP was in the building, they had these tune ups and they were, they were introducing the idea of a spiritual retreat. A weekend to connect with your higher power. And it sounded like an all expense vacation to a homeless girl on the streets. They, you know, think they feed you, they. You have a roof over your head for a couple nights, your own room, and you get to spend time with God. And I, you know, I come from a very spiritual background. You know, I knew God in my household as a little girl and I lost sight of that in the, in my addiction. I lost sight of that. And I wanted that back. I just thought I let God down. So I didn't search for him anymore and, and I didn't think he had, he wanted anything to do with me. So I decided to go on this retreat and it was really scary decision at first because it goes against everything you learn on the streets. Don't trust anybody, don't go anywhere you're not sure about. I mean, it goes really against everything but that, that, that leap of faith that I took to meet these women and sit in a circle and you just instantly feel comfortable and you drop your guard and you get to literally quiet the world around you. All the noise, all, everything. I remember being newly clean. I must have been clean only a few months. And just that weekend changed, changed everything. It changed my entire direction of life. I, I really believe now that one moment alone with the Holy Spirit can change anybody's life. Because I heard, I heard God speak to me. Not only that, when I left the retreat, I had a direction. I was so lost walking into a retreat. And by the time I left, I was so full of hope for a future and I was excited about my next steps, even though it was scary. So that's how I found isp and after that I started going to these tune ups regularly. They had them online and the women meet once a week online and it's a community. It's a community and we, we build each other up and that, that has helped me stay clean today.

Ray Spadoni (12:33)

So you thought that the best thing that could happen would be an all expenses paid vacation, but you got something even better. You said that you came out of it full of hope for the future, which is probably better than an all expenses paid vacation.

Angelica Santana (12:50)

Absolutely.

Ray Spadoni (12:52)

Wonderful. Great stories. Thank you. I'm sure we're going to return to those because as I mentioned for Glenn, you know, how did you go from there now to ongoing involvement and volunteer work and a kind of, you know, a member of the community? So we'll come back to that. But maybe to set the stage for our listeners, I wonder, Christine, if you could just maybe take us back to the beginning. What's the origin story of ISP?

Glenn Half (13:19)

Sure.

Christine Curran (13:20)

So ISP was founded in 1998 in Chicago by a Jesuit priest and a former Jesuit that were friends that had met in the in the novitiate. The friends, the priest's name is Father Bill Creed, and the co founder was Ed Sherna, who at the time Ed was the director or the executive director of the Coalition for the Homeless in Chicago. And so the Genesis story is really one that kind of starts 500 years ago in terms of, you know, Ignatius of Loyola, who the Jesuits are, founded in that tradition. And Ignatius had this, you know, he came up with the Spiritual Exercises, which is a way of coming to know God and to know God, God's voice in your own heart and in your everyday life. And it's not something separate from our experience, as Glenn said, it's something that we live in and God's presence is with us. But discerning where God is, is is really what the Jesuits and Ignatius is kind of known for. So there's something called the First Spiritual Exercises. And that's basically in a nutshell, is like, okay, here's the format that people can go through. And of course, every Jesuit I shouldn't say of course for your listeners, every Jesuit who's in formation goes through a process of the Exercises in order to decide if they're being called to that way of life as avowed religious. But it's also a gift for the church and for laypeople as well. And so the first spiritual exercise is Ignatius says at one point, hey, here's the formal way to do it and here's all the movements through that. But if none of that works or that's not right for your context, do something else. And he's very open about what that something else could look like. And anyway, without getting too technical, we call it the 18th annotation. So what Father Bill and Ed saw was that if this way of these exercises could be so powerful for so many people throughout the centuries, especially people in transition, people discerning, people wondering what their next step is and what the voice of God was saying, why wouldn't that be very powerful for people who are coming out of a situation of addiction, out of a situation of being stuck in habits and attachments as we all are? You know, sometimes we look at addiction as something separate. That's just another way that many of us in our society, including myself, are caught by habits and things that we don't, you know, we don't want to be caught in. And so the exercise is a way of freeing ourselves so that we can be free from the things that hold us back, so that we can be free for the things that we're being called to do. So the origin story is essentially that they thought, well, you know, here's an opportunity to be able to share this gift with. First, it started with men in emergency shelter on the west side of Chicago. And over the next couple years a women's team was created and we basically took off like wildfire. It's a volunteer based ministry. We're in 20 cities across the country. Started again 25 years ago, but really grew by leaps and bounds. Volunteers, people just saying, hey, I'm in a 12 step program, I'm a spiritual director, I am a spiritual seeker, I would like to start a program in my city. And so that's how it started. We are still volunteer run in all of those cities. We have seven staff right now today, but we don't really have staff in the cities that we are operating our programs. So for instance, Boston, where Glenn and Angelica are from, it's volunteer led. And here on the podcast you have two of the leaders of ISV Boston, because we are volunteer led. And one of the most important things is that we do have people with lived experience of homelessness and substance use addiction, because these are the folks who are able to lead us and help us make the decisions about what's most effective. How do we outreach? There are often people who other folks that are in that transition space themselves feel most comfortable with in terms of being invited onto programs. So I can say more, but that's basically our origin story. We are 25 years old and we're still small, small, we're still scrappy, we're still trying to like, do more. One of the ways that we started with retreats and now we're moving into what is called spiritual companionship, which is also what Angelica And Glenn pointed out that what we're trying to do is in the, especially in the last five plus years, we're trying to be more present in the residences where we used to outreach for retreats, but now how do we walk with people? How do our teams walk with people while they're in the residences? Recovery centers getting those wraparound services. How can ISP be one of those wraparound services to help provide support to people that in turn can help introduce people to retreats and other opportunities. That's a new way we're growing. But yeah, we're really proud to do the work we're doing. And we're still pretty small and we're still volunteer dependent and I think that's one of our greatest strengths.

Ray Spadoni (18:35)

So thank you. That's a great introduction to the organization. In terms of the work itself, it sounds like it's primarily retreat based. There's some support services and a desire to grow this part of it in residences and so forth. What are the tune ups? Both Glenn and Angelica referred to tune ups. I know what that is relative to my car, but what is it relative to people?

Christine Curran (19:05)

Yeah, Let me just say quickly and then maybe Glenn and Angelica can describe it if they, if there's time, but just to say those are our spiritual reflection circles. So in Boston, because Boston has its own culture and its own unique flavor, calls them tune ups. And in some cities they're called Phillips and some cities are called sacred circles. So because every team is a little bit different in the culture of the city's a little bit different. Sometimes there's different names, but that's essentially a one hour circle where people are sharing on their faith. Now it's important to mention for listeners that we are spiritual, not religious. So it's a key aspect. We are coming out of the Catholic tradition because we're a Jesuit ministry. But we have always, since day one, been spiritual, not religious. Meaning we have had people from all different faiths on our retreats. And in our spiritual reflection circles, you don't need to be Christian. You have to be, you know, obviously you're, you're attracted because you're open to maybe a conversation about your spiritual life. So most people are open to that, but you do not need to be of any particular background. And so a lot of what we do in our spiritual reflection circles, these one hour tune ups or programs is share on. You know, it could be a psalm, but it also could be a poem, a prayer, thought things of that nature. So that is the fastest way we're growing and it's a way that we can meet people in early recovery that aren't quite ready to be on a retreat yet.

Ray Spadoni (20:32)

Gotcha. Thank you. That's very helpful. Glenn and Angelica, as you were describing your connection to isp, Glenn, you talked about coming in from the cold and standing by a heater in a church. And, Angelica, you used the term vicious cycle of addiction. So you were living your lives, and then you were introduced to isp. What. What happened to change the direction of your life? And was it something that was sudden, like a. Like a bolt of electricity out of the sky, or was it something that happened over time?

Angelica Santana (21:15)

A little bit of both, I want to say, because at the first retreat that I was at, I had a spiritual encounter. I heard God's voice. I talked to him. I got to, you know, like, what is the secret to the secret place? I learned that weekend, shut the door. I got to close the door. And I got to experience alone time with God and pour my heart out. They gave us these journals in our first group, and we started to write with these prompts, questions we could ask. They introduced prayer back into my life. I hadn't really prayed in a long time, and they made it comfortable. It wasn't like just reciting something. It was real conversation with God and asking questions. And then there was time to be silent enough to hear something back. So from that moment at the retreat, there was a spark, there was an energy, there was something more. I left with something more. And even though I still didn't know where I was going, I know that I was being led somewhere. And, yes, it did take some time. It's been almost three years, three years since that first retreat. And I've been through some hard times. I've been through some hard things, but I've built community. We do these spiritual exercises at the tune ups where you get to reflect on a scripture, a poem, a quote. You hear women from different walks of life. And, you know, we're not preaching to one another. We're not telling each other what to believe. We're telling each other our own experiences with God. This is what God told me. This is what God taught me. This is what I learned. This is what I experienced. And it's amazing how you can learn from one another when you drop the judgment and stop trying to fix each other. We're not trying to fix each other. We kind of let God lead us. And I think that's really powerful when you can have a group of people with different backgrounds, like Christine was saying. I mean, you can have, you can have a Jehovah Witness, you can have a Catholic woman, you can have a Baptist woman, you can have a Pentecostal woman, you can have an agnostic, somebody who's not even sure about God. We can all sit in the room together and, and have a powerful conversation and learn and listen. So that. Did that answer the question?

Ray Spadoni (23:53)

Yeah, very much so. And it's, and it's, you know, it's a, it's. There's emphasis on what hack. What can happen in small communities. I mean, that's, Those are the building blocks of most, you know, progress, certainly within, Within Christianity. Glenn, how about, how about you? What was your, you know, what was the spark or what was the journey like for you?

Glenn Half (24:15)

Well, I've been on. I've been blessed for my whole life. I was raised Catholic and I actually wanted to be a priest. But I also, my best friend growing up, one of my best friends, his father was a Protestant minister, and I envied them. I'd hang out at the house, and his father was a cool guy. And I was, I was Catholic and I was like, well, I can't give up my faith. So I eventually, my struggles, I said, well, I can try to live a priestly life and I just try and do good things, you know, to the next right thing. And so I've always had that. The moral compass was instilled in me early on. And that, again, is a gift, the gift of faith. It's not something that I've. I've strengthened on my own. It's been strengthened within me. But what I find now is that all the things that I've experienced in my life kind of came to fruition when I discovered ISP that I didn't have to go to grad school, I didn't have to take one more class, I didn't have to read the latest book before I can speak up. I was okay as, as I was, and I had some value and I had something to share. And I listened to people that I normally wouldn't listen to everybody. To be considerate, you just have your moment and then you allow the others to speak. And I would hear stories that I was never expecting from people that different walks of life and people that I would never spend the time to sit down and even have a cup of coffee with. Now here I was. It wasn't a captured audience. You're free to leave. But I found the companionship and the fellowship there in kind of in what was unknown. It was interesting for me to go Deeper. And to meet my newfound friends and realize how much we had in common, that I would never give that opportunity to. Because you didn't come from my neighborhood. Because you don't dress like me, because we don't look the same, we don't speak the same language, let alone our complexions. It's just amazing how the melting pot that I found in the sacred circle brought me the comfort. And I just kind of felt like Don Quixote chasing windmills. I could stop. It was done. The windmills could stop. I was here. And if I really wanted to do what I wanted, which is to do good, all I had to do was be willing to share my life with other people. And I'm very protective of my life. I'll tell people truths. I'll tell them truths, but they get a part of me in isp, I'm willing to share my entire life, warts and all, not just the edited, glossy version. And to me, that's where the beauty is. And that's where I find God now. That's where I know we talk to Jesuits to try to see God in all things. And I see it now like I never did before. I thought it was in people. I thought it was in acts of kindness. It's in natural beauty. It's even in unpleasant situations when you see the goodness that comes out of it. Think about how people that are homeless kind of huddle together and they take care of one another, and they don't let others in. They're distrustful, but they're trusting and open and willing to take chances and break every rule that they have for survival on the street by welcoming another. And they take them. No judgment. You're accepted. You're equal. And I find that in isp, that's the beauty of it.

Ray Spadoni (28:06)

Well, thank you. There's an interesting progression as you were describing what happened when you realized that you were okay as you are. And then it sounds like it went a step beyond that, which is that whatever it is that you brought to the table, whoever it is that you are, that there's beauty in it, and you found that maybe you are more than okay as you are. That's. That's what I just heard you say, Glenn.

Glenn Half (28:39)

That's. That's the truth, Ray. And that's. That's where I see that and feel that. But that's the blessings bestowed upon me. That's not something like, oh, that a boy. You're doing good work. Keep it up. It's a gift. It's a blessing.

Ray Spadoni (28:54)

That's Great. You know, when I, when I look through some of your materials and your website, I saw a lot of words and phrases like circle of love and care, hope and healing, fellowship and community, and the notion of presence and accompaniment. And I was struck by the fact that this isn't typical program definition language. It's ministry and redemption language. Would you say that this approach based on what else is out there, that this is unique?

Christine Curran (29:25)

Yes. Say more, Angelica.

Angelica Santana (29:31)

Oh, yes. Sorry, Glenn.

Glenn Half (29:39)

No, for me, I, I just. That's funny because I thought about that exactly that, yeah, this, this is not only it not, but I'm like, why am I the one that's going to try and put this into words, you know, not me. I, I, I, I, I'm inadequate. And then I said, wait a minute, I'm being supported by my brothers and sisters telling me the exact opposite, and people seeing something in me that I don't even look for, where they say, you know, I think maybe you should lead a facilitator retreat. And I'm thinking, you sure you got the right guy? Did you read my whole story? You know, and here, the beauty of it all, that, yeah, you found it. Ready or not, you're welcome to it. Take what you want and don't worry, we'll carry you on this walk. You don't even have to, you don't have to even vocalize anything. Just the welcomeness, I believe, is what for me is just makes it different. Because that was always the thing. Why do what's, what separates ISP from the pack? And it, it was from day one where I didn't realize that that's what my mission was, to find the spot. But when I found it, I realized that this is a unique, unique experience. And just encouraging me to go deeper, to go deeper on my own at whatever pace I wanted with whoever I chose to. And that to me was beautiful.

Ray Spadoni (31:18)

Awesome. Awesome. You know, Christine, you described your organization as small and scrappy. So tell me a little bit more about that. And, you know, what, what cities are you in, where are you active, and are you looking to grow further?

Christine Curran (31:39)

Thanks, Ray. Yeah, we're small and scrappy. I think when people think about the Jesuits, even though the Jesuits, the main sort of charism or guiding principle is the care of souls, you know, that's always been the most, the key to it. I think most people know the Jesuits in this country as education, so high schools and colleges and universities. ISP is a spiritual ministry, first and foremost, helping people find the God of their understanding, the God of Hope, healing and presence. And we do that with an audience that is atypical in the sense of the people that are often on the margins, often invisible, often kind of written off in a way. We work with adults, right? Even sometimes when people work with what you would say, oh, the church works with the poor, a lot of times it's oh, well, youth and things of that nature. We welcome people who often have been written off, who have spent years in chronic homelessness or have made a lot of mistakes in terms of not going the path that looking back, they wish they had taken in their lives. But small and scrappy is really where I think I say that with pride because there's a certain sense in which we have to place ourselves as an organization on the margins. Even in terms of saying, you know, we're not at the center, we're not at the center of power, we're not at the center of, you know, organizational success. We're not those places where corporate sponsors are going to come and, you know, and not to say that if anyone's listening that would like to support us, we'd certainly not turn that away. However, we find ourselves on the margins and we find ourselves resting on the providence of God because that is, that is the community we serve too, that we rest on the providence of God, and they do. And there's so much courage and inspiration from the people in our community that I would say that's small and scrappy. I'm proud of that. That said, one of the things we're really looking at, we're at an inflection point in our ministry saying how do we continue to grow and be sustainable when we're volunteer based in our cities? Certainly that's a great treasure of our ministry and our model. It's also a challenge in terms of being able to have volunteer team succession planning. And we've had key people in every city who, they get older, they need to pass on the ministry to someone else. And there's not necessarily that next person or you'll always have a charismatic leader and then what's that next step? Because that person gets burnt out or overloaded. So we're always sort of struggling with. And I think we're at this really kind of cool inflection point where we're looking at how do we create a scalable model we've already scaled across the country, but something with a little bit more sustainability. And that's, that's. We have a. Without going into those details, we do have a strategic plan that we're excited about moving forward for the next three years. It was something during COVID as you can imagine, we had great plans, and then who knew Covid was going to hit? And that really shut down a whole lot of things for us in terms of in person relationships and companionship. Because obviously the sort of places that we connect with our community members in are congregate living. They're places where people could infect one another. We had to be super careful not to set the shelters on fire with flu. So we are growing back, we're getting stronger. But I think one of our key areas is that we are going to lean into the spiritual recovery movement. We know that there's a great deal, like I think you were mentioning early on, before we got started, how much interest there is right now in spirituality and faith. And there's a belief here, and I think it's absolutely right that, you know, spirituality is such an important influence in individuals and in communities. And it's been one that's been under recognized. You know, we've looked at a lot of material solutions to addiction, We've looked at a lot of material solutions to homelessness. But there are things that every person needs, like community, hope, healing, a sense of purpose, which is a sense of forgiveness. Right. I mean, to your question about where is ISP unique? I mean, there's kind of a moral injury that happens to people who have come back from war, who have lived on the streets, who have been abused as children, children who have lived through incarceration. And a lot of our folks have had those experiences. So there has to be a way of healing and forgiving ourselves and one another. That's a super important piece, as much as a roof over your head, as much as education and other things. And so I think there's a really important role. And I think as much as we can get out there and share the message, that the internal resources, the spiritual gifts that Glenn was referring to, and Angelica as well, are really as important to human flourishing, not just surviving, but thriving.

Ray Spadoni (36:47)

Yeah, for sure. I just refer listeners to episode 51, where I had an opportunity to interview Deborah Grassman, a psychiatric hospice clinician working with veterans. And she's the author of Soul Injury and other books on the very topic you're describing. And so anyone who's listening to this, who also heard that interview, will hear a great deal of connection to that point. The name of this podcast is Leading Organizations that Matter. And so I often talk with leaders of organizations that were built off of the enthusiasm and energy and charisma of a founder and find that sustainability, once that early person or people, you know, drop out or, or, or, you know, sort of move on and continuing that forward is one of the greatest challenges. I'd like to ask Glenn and Angelica, you, you know, you described your, your path to isp, and, and, you know, Glenn, you talked about the fact that it took you a little while to see the card again, about the tune up. And Angelica, you talked about the sort of the code among the people you knew about who you can trust and who you can't trust. And so there may have been some hesitancy, but you made the decision to move forward. If you could, if it's possible, if you could speak to yourself before you made that decision, if you could go, you had some kind of a way to talk to yourself back then, before you decided to walk in the front door of isp. What would you say to yourself, Angelica.

Angelica Santana (38:54)

As I am now, like, who I am today?

Ray Spadoni (38:57)

Yeah. Based on what you know now, what would you say to yourself before you knew all that?

Angelica Santana (39:03)

Oh, not to be afraid. Don't be afraid. This is. This is a game changer, Angelica. This is definitely a game changer. And it was. It really was. There was a hesitation, there was some fear, you know, but there was also a pull. There was also a pull because you're breaking all the rules that, you know, you're learning to survive, what protects you. You are coming from severe trauma and abuse. So what I would say to myself is, don't be afraid. Because even after the retreat, there still is a level of fear. Because I had this awesome encounter with God, it did take me some time to connect with the women thereafter, there was still a level of fear connecting. And it took time. And because the women kept reaching out, because they kept calling and leaving messages and invites, and even if I didn't answer them back because they were so warm and they. They didn't stop, you know, it just took that moment to answer the phone or to reach back in a text where, okay, I'll go to the tuneup. Okay, I'll. I'll meet in the circle. Okay, I'll sign up for the next retreat. Because you're. You're broken. You're. You're broken, and you don't even know how to connect anymore. But there's no judgment. And every time you meet, it feels like family. It feels like a warm hug from God. You. You're so refreshed. You get a feeling of, I don't know, you feel alive again every time. And it takes practice and we all encourage each other. We all encourage each other. So, again, back to the question. I would say, don't be afraid.

Ray Spadoni (41:01)

Great. Thank you, Glenn.

Glenn Half (41:05)

Oh, for me, I think kind of when I did, what I've gotten out of ISP is almost a magnification of what I was already being shown. I was, I was kind of. I was on that path. I was on that quest because that was my desire. I always wanted to live a life of faith, to be, just to do the next right thing, to be a good person. And I wanted to be of service. He wanted to. I want to lead things better than when I got there. Leave a Legacy was, you know, I was kind of raised to. It wasn't about greatness, but just that your legacy should, should speak for itself. And I read this great spiritual book that I came through, a group called the Promise Keepers 25 years ago, and I forget the author, and it was called Live a Legacy. And I read it and it was beautiful. And it was about, you know, don't, don't finish Strong, which was another great book I read. It was about be strong every day as best you can. Some days you're stronger than others. But it's a, it's not about, boy, oh boy, it's a big finish. No, it's, it's, it's a beautiful, blessed life every day. It's, it's not save it up for tomorrow because you'll be stronger. And, and I've, I've always had that, that I call it. Well, it's perseverance, but it's like oxymorons. Am I determined or am I just stubborn? Am I persevering because I refuse to quit or because I have a true desire? And part of my wanting to pass on that latch on ISP and to go deeper and to be of service in any way I could, to facilitate anywhere they wanted me to was a way of saying thank you. But part of that is also. There's a part of it that's kind of almost a feeling of guilt. Almost like, how could I walk away being given what I've been given, being shown what I've been shown. And now learning and knowing what I know today, how can I walk away and not try and help my fellow person, stranger next to me, my new friend? I couldn't do it. I like to think that it's because I, I, I'm full of gratitude. But there's, there's that Catholic guilt, too, I guess, that I'm one with, that I, that I marry with Me, so whatever. I'm sure, you know, I don't get points off for God, so that's, that's okay. And I can always use the points.

Ray Spadoni (43:51)

You and me both. But, you know, I like this concept of the big finish. And, you know, it can be fool's gold to think that somewhere out there is the big finish and that you'll just wait till you get there and then you'll finish strong. You can take your eye off of the now. And the power of smaller steps in the moment is where progress comes from. So that's, that's very powerful. And Angelica, you mentioned this notion of, you know, being broken and, and, you know, talking to someone, saying, you are so broken. I mean, have you ever met someone who isn't? I mean, that's just, that's the truth of it. But anyways, I want to. Christine, go to your comment about, hey, if there's someone listening and they'd like to make a donation or they'd like to become engaged, if someone is interested, and they would be, they'd be wondering about joining this community, about participating in some way of supporting your work or they just want to learn more, what would you suggest they do?

Christine Curran (45:06)

Thanks, Ray. Yeah. We are in 20 cities and those cities have retreat and spiritual reflection programs. So we are always looking for volunteers. One of the big ways that, you know, obviously if you have, if you're a spiritual seeker yourself or you're someone who is. Loves what the Jesuits do or feel some sort of connection there, we would love you to reach out and I can give you the information. It's our website and I can certainly say this at the end of my spiel, but volunteering is an important way to connect and some of that can be helpful, as simple as driving a man or a woman to a retreat. We have about 100 retreats a year. We always need drivers. And I mean, as silly as that sounds, it's where our retreat begins. It's the welcome. I heard Angelica and Glenn say that word again and again. It's the welcome. It's the invitation, it's the smile, it's, hi, I'm here to drive you to the retreat. It's just a pleasant encounter with someone else who, you know, cares. So even if it's as simple as driving or making, you know, we have knitted prayer shawls, there's so many ways that we try to help our retreatants feel like they're at home when they, when they're on the retreat. So that's one way financially, is, is is one of the best ways to help us. We are small where we're always trying to make ends meet. Here we are 100% philanthropic. So we don't get, you know, because we're a church based ministry, we don't have any government grants. We are 100% individual donations. So the way to do that best would be for both of those things volunteering or donating is to go to our website and that's www.ispretreats r e t r e a t s dot org so ispretreats.org and you'll see a, you'll see some options there in terms of if you'd like to sponsor a retreat. You know that's the big ticket item. It's $2,500 to help about 14 to 15 individuals attend a retreat. There's also many other options in terms of supporting our alumni like Glenn is in the Ambassadors of Hope program. That's a two year alumni leadership program. Angelica will be attending the Network Facilitators retreat next week in St. Louis and that helps our talented community members become facilitators and learn how to lead retreats. It's about being able to give back what was so freely given to you. And as you can see, these two community members on the call right now are the future of isp. You talked a little bit earlier about made a mention about Father Bill and others who are the founders and certainly they brought a lot of energy and charismatic fervor but they got, Bill's got nothing on folks like Glenn Angelica who really are living out ISP day today. Sorry Bill, don't want him to hear this but this is the future of our ministry is our alums, our alum leaders. So if someone is interested in helping sponsor a retreat for them to learn about how to become leaders and how to form themselves as leaders for others. That's what it's all about, you know, living out the 12th step, walking with others, making sure that we can kind of pass on to Glenn's point about the legacy, pass on what we've been given. So really appreciate if anyone wants to just reach out and learn more they can also go to the website and you'll see our staff and feel free to reach out to me, Christine Curran or our director of programs Matt Myers who you'll also see his information on the website.

Ray Spadoni (48:50)

Fantastic. Thank you all so much. I will make sure to put a direct link in the show notes to your website. I recommend folks check it out. There's a lot of good information there and on YouTube there are some wonderful, short and very powerful videos that describe your work and describe the reach of your organization. It's been a great honor to speak with all of you. Glenn and Angelica, I think you have a future in being podcast guests. I think you did great and hey, what about me?

Christine Curran (49:26)

No, I'm kidding.

Ray Spadoni (49:27)

No, no. Well I mean you're all fantastic and I really appreciate you being on the podcast and I'm grateful for the work that you do. So thank you so much.

Christine Curran (49:40)

Thank you Ray. Thank you so much.

Glenn Half (49:42)

Thank you Ray. I greatly appreciate the opportunity today.

Angelica Santana (49:45)

Thank you Ray.

Ray Spadoni (49:47)

Thanks for listening. Leaving a positive review and letting others know about this podcast will help a great deal. My mission is to help empower organizations that matter by supporting those who lead them. I offer coaching, mentoring and consulting services. You can learn more about me@racetoni.com.

Christine Curran (50:14)

Sam.