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Foreign welcome to Leading Organizations that Matter, a podcast about leadership and how we find impact, meaning and joy in our work. I'm your host Ray Spadoni and today's topic is how to Quit a Toxic Company. Okay, you're at your wit's end. You've done all you can. You've looked in the mirror and made an honest self assessment. And so now you're debating the fight or flight question and increasingly thinking it's time to go, that the poison, chaos and personal toll are just too much to bear. Unless the problem is you, and let's face it, that could be the issue here, then you are likely to resign your position to a knowing audience. In my experience, when toxicity reigns supreme, it's no real secret that toxicity is tolerated because A there's a conflict, avoidant leadership style or culture at play B the toxicity ringleaders are perceived as bringing too much value and so the shortcomings are tolerated. C there's a fear based dynamic there where everybody heads for the hills at the first sign of trouble, or D the organization is paralyzed with an inability to initiate and maintain positive change. In some situations it could be more than one of those and maybe it could be all of those. It's not uncommon that the person you will resign your position to, or maybe the HR representative. If that's the case, they're going to want to know the skinny, the dirty details, the backstory. Perhaps they're building a case and trying to document the folly of a leader or hoping to find a willing whistleblower who can get the ball rolling toward change. This is not that uncommon a situation and this puts you, the person committed to resigning, in a pretty tricky spot. You're going to wonder how honest can I be here? I'd say your choices are a decline the exit interview and get out of Dodge, B lay it all on the line and let the chips fall where they may, or C be honest, but in a careful and strategic manner. Option A decline and move on might feel safest, but it won't result in any improvement for the company. Bad behaviors are going to be rewarded and perpetrators are going to remain safe. Option B, be completely honest might give you a good sense of empowerment, but it can turn politically tricky, fast and frankly, sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. In other words, you could drop a dime and level strong accusations against someone only to find out that you were basically wrong. Completely wrong. Again, you don't know what you don't know. And this does happen more than you think Option C Be honest but guarded. Can can be difficult and may not always be possible, but I'm going to suggest it's worth trying to walk that tightrope. I recommend a three part strategy. In reality, it's probably more accurate to describe it as a three phase strategy, as you'll want to assess how the conversation's going and then make a decision in the moment as to whether you move on to the next step or not. The three parts are Number one, just say it. Open with a clear statement about what you are doing, namely that you are quitting. I have witnessed resignation conversations where people beat around the bush endlessly, leaving the listener sitting there like wondering what is going on. So make it simple and make it direct. A statement such as thank you for meeting with me on such a short notice, but this is time sensitive. I wanted to communicate to you that I am resigning from the position of X. There, done. You said it. Number two, disarm. You might be catching them off guard and so their minds may be wrestling with a number of difficult questions and even emotions. So before they dig themselves too far into a rabbit hole, provide some quick hit context. This can include remarks such as this saddens me greatly because I had such high hopes for this job. I've worked very hard here and I like and respect many of the people. I'm not going to go negative about this organization or anyone who works here both today and from this point forward, though I suspect that I might be disparaged once this news is out. End quote. So saying the part about I'm not going to go negative about this organization or anyone who works here both today and from this point forward, that's a key part of this, that's going to have a great positive impact in many situations and it's going to be reassuring for folks. But then you follow up with the part that says I suspect that I might be disparaged once this news is out is you are sort of arming whoever's hearing you to ignore any of the bad things that they might be hearing in the future. Okay, so number three, I call this part jab. Number three is jab. And so the name of that step, I know it has a negative connotation, but you are being a total class act up to this point. It will feel good to put something helpful out there that they can work with and which might let you sleep better down the line here. You have to find that sweet spot. This is a nuanced piece of this, I get that. But you have to find the sweet spot between directly saying and inferring. And only you can decide whether you're comfortable navigating that narrow path. You could say something along these lines. Quote, there is a lot wrong in that office or team or company. Whatever. The warning signs are everywhere and I suspect that you and others already know about them. Despite the best efforts of many, there are some fundamental challenges there. I fear this scenario is going to play out again and again and it will negatively impact the performance and mission of the company. Period. End of quote. So when you say the part about warning signs, I suspect you and others already know about them. That's basically an invitation to them to be honest about what they already know about the problem. Now, whether they're going to open the, you know, accept that invitation and have a conversation with them, who knows? If they do, then you can proceed there. Though I still would remain guarded. Maybe they won't go there. Fine, you did put that out there. The other part about about the statement that I'm suggesting is about the negatively impacting the performance admission of the company. That's your way of saying this is serious, you need to do something about this and they need to hear that. So when they do hear that, some are going to press for specifics and so you're going to have to make a decision. Do you go for it with guns a blazing or do you hang back and decline any real substantive further conversation if you choose the latter to, you know, not go there, as they say, you could simply say, I'm not comfortable going negative right now or saying more doesn't feel safe to me. You can be honest. If you don't want to go there, don't go there. Tell them why. I know that every situation is unique and I don't want to suggest some type of one size fits all remedy to this very difficult scenario. But I hope the three part approach that I've described here can be adapted to your specifics. I hope it's helpful. Anyways, good luck. This is a challenging situation. Thanks for listening. Leaving a positive review and letting others know about this podcast will help a great deal. My mission is to help empower organizations that matter by supporting those who lead them. I offer coaching, mentoring and consulting services. You can learn more about me and my work@racebodone.com.