Incomplete Records: University of North Carolina, Domestic Research Oversight, and the Limits of What We Know

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Leaked

Episode: Incomplete Records: University of North Carolina, Domestic Research Oversight, and the Limits of What We Know

Host: TFLabs

Guests: Neal Harrison (Columbia University), Bryce Nichols (Rutgers)

Release Date: January 20, 2026

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Overview:

This episode delves into the stagnation and opacity surrounding the COVID-19 origins investigation. With help from exclusive insights provided by Jenner Furst’s documentary "Thank You, Dr. Fauci," host Payne Lindsey (in collaboration with Neal Harrison and Bryce Nichols) explores the scant progress in scientific understanding, the resilience of goal-oriented scientific narratives, and the persistent shadow of possible cover-ups—touching on both international and domestic (U.S.) research facilities. Humor and dark satire permeate the discussion as the hosts confront the contradictions, politics, and obfuscations that cloud the search for the pandemic’s source.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stagnation in COVID-19 Origin Research

• (01:38-02:42) Both scientific publications and government/non-governmental investigations have yielded little new information on COVID-19 origins over the past year.
• “Very, very little has happened, and we can divide recent events into two categories…” — Neal Harrison, (01:38)

2. Scientific Narratives and “Goal-Seeking Science”

• (02:42-10:42) Discussion on the so-called “international team” of scientists continuing to reinforce the natural zoonotic origin narrative, particularly with a 2025 publication by “Picar.”
  • New data is largely unremarkable: confirms that coronaviruses recombine and have circulated in bats for hundreds/thousands of years, but offers no true insight into the Wuhan emergence.
  • The “mosaic” genetic appearance of viruses is once again confirmed—a well-known phenomenon.
  • The idea that SARS-CoV-2 suddenly appeared in Wuhan is presented without plausible mechanism, humorously referencing possibilities like “fast bats” or raccoon dogs with airline tickets.
• Quote:
  • “It’s almost as though the viruses were transported to Wuhan in a vial, maybe… in some way that did not involve bats.” — Neal Harrison (08:25, 08:33)
  • “It is goal-seeking science.” — Neal Harrison (09:34)
  • “Not a very compelling piece of work… doesn’t provide any useful insight into the origin.” — Bryce Nichols (09:50)

3. Analogies to Lab Leaks

• (11:31-21:39) Harrison recounts a recent outbreak of swine flu near Barcelona, Spain, where virus sequencing linked the local outbreak in pigs and wild boar to a reference lab strain—strongly suggesting a laboratory leak.
  • Spanish authorities initially denied this possibility, suggesting the “ham sandwich” theory (virus imported via food from elsewhere); this mirrored dismissive narratives around COVID-19 origins and the “frozen fish” theory in China.
• Quote:
  • “So the ham sandwich mechanism was suggested for this, but unfortunately for the local government, some of the scientists involved in the region actually had some integrity.” — Neal Harrison (17:34)
  • “The ham sandwich mechanism is interesting because… it’s reminiscent of the frozen food explanation.” — Neal Harrison (20:58)

4. The Green Spring Theory: U.S. Lab Leak Suspicion

• (21:39-33:17) A discussion about a strikingly similar outbreak of respiratory illness in July 2019 at the Green Spring retirement community (Fairfax County, Virginia) — months before the Wuhan outbreak.
  • Symptoms, timing, and spread are paralleled with early COVID-19 outbreaks in Washington State and Italy.
  • Samples from this outbreak have not been scrutinized for SARS-CoV-2.
  • Geographic proximity to DoD labs (Fort Belvoir, Fort Detrick) raises questions.
• Quote:
  • “If anybody wanted to look at them, presumably they could do so, but nobody’s done it.” — Neal Harrison (27:32)
  • “It didn’t make much sense that suburban Virginia would have an outbreak.” — Neal Harrison (30:57)

5. Fort Detrick Closure Controversy

• (33:17-39:22) The podcast discusses the August 2019 closure of the U.S. bioresearch facility at Fort Detrick.
  • The official reasons for the shutdown remain undisclosed, fueling speculation.
  • Calls for whistleblowers or more transparency regarding the shutdown’s timing and circumstances.
  • Raises the possibility that timeline matches between outbreaks and lab activity may be more than coincidence.

6. Problems in High-Security U.S. Labs

• (35:51-39:22) Cites a recent scandal at Fort Detrick’s BSL4 facility involving a “love triangle,” sabotage of containment suits, and general instability—questioning the safety protocols in such sensitive work.
• Quote:
  • “It’s very alarming that that kind of work is going on in a really sort of unstable environment involving organisms at the BSL4 containment level.” — Neal Harrison (38:56)

7. Culture of Deflection & Absurdist Rationalizations

• (39:22-43:41) The hosts mock the tendency to blame “bad apples” (personal disputes, love affairs, individual recklessness) for lab issues, deflecting from systemic risks.
  • The dialogue is saturated with ironic humor: recurring themes of “ham sandwiches,” “flying pigs,” and raccoon dogs as satirical stand-ins for propagandistic explanations.
  • High-profile murder-suicides among scientists are contextualized as “just” personal matters, with authorities careful to disconnect them from research content.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Occasion | |-----------|---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 08:25 | Neal Harrison | “It’s almost as though the viruses were transported to Wuhan in a vial, maybe.” | | 09:34 | Neal Harrison | “It is goal-seeking science.” | | 17:34 | Neal Harrison | “Some of the scientists involved… actually had some integrity.” (Spain swine flu leak) | | 10:42 | Neal Harrison | “It’s become an irreversible journey for this group of people that their careers are now inextricably tied…” | | 30:57 | Neal Harrison | “It didn’t make much sense that suburban Virginia would have an outbreak.” | | 35:26 | Bryce Nichols | “Maybe you should get, you know, call to action, get more information about the Fort Detrick closure.” | | 38:56 | Neal Harrison | “Very alarming that that kind of work is going on… involving organisms at the BSL4 containment level.” | | 41:48 | Interviewer | “Labs can’t come from virus—viruses—labs. This. Ham sandwiches fly. Pigs fly. Raccoon dogs fly…” |

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Closing Reflections & Proposals

• (44:54-47:43) The episode ends with an in-character, satirical “grand jury indictment” summation.
• Proposal: Nichols suggests using nursing home outbreaks near labs as sentinel surveillance for lab leaks—monitoring “canaries in the coal mine.”
  • “It’s possible, maybe we could take advantage of existing infrastructures that are nursing homes located close to labs and as… canaries in the coal mine to monitor the environment for escapes.” — Bryce Nichols (45:59)
• Host jokingly proposes monitoring scientists’ fecal samples for “bullshit” to improve early detection of scientific fraud and deflection.

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Notable Themes and Tone

• The tone is a mix of serious, investigative inquiry and sharp, sometimes absurdist satire.
• Recurring mockery of official narratives (“ham sandwich,” flying animals) illustrates frustration with convoluted or evasive explanations.
• The episode underscores a lack of transparency, political and scientific entrenchment, and the broader risks of high-level pathogen research.
• While several conspiratorial dots are presented, the guests are careful to label them as provocative questions rather than conclusions.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:42 — Dissection of Picar et al. 2025 Cell paper
• 11:31 — Swine flu lab leak in Spain and “ham sandwich” analogies
• 21:39 — Introduction of the “Green Spring” lab leak theory (Virginia, Summer 2019)
• 33:17 — Fort Detrick closure/cover-up discussion
• 35:51 — Fort Detrick BSL4 scandal and lab safety culture
• 39:22-41:48 — Satirical summary of systemic accountability gaps
• 44:54 — Final “indictment” and left-field proposals

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This summary provides a thorough yet accessible guide to the episode, highlighting scientific, political, and cultural barriers to uncovering the origins of COVID-19 while capturing the hosts’ incisive and irreverent style.

Transcript

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[Narrator/Producer]

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. This episode is brought to you by Angel Studios, home of the documentary thank youk, Dr. Fauci. Head over to Angel.com to watch and learn more about this story.

[Neal Harrison]

So it's been an interesting year in the sense that very, very little has happened, and we can divide new we can divide recent events into two categories. So one would be scientific publications where there also hasn't been very much, and then the other side of that would be investigative activities on behalf of or outside of government.

[Bryce Nichols]

This episode starts with a weird reality. Almost nothing new has happened, and sometimes that silence is the story. Jenner first sits down with two scientists who know what the evidence can prove and what institutions tend to do when it can't. Neal Harrison of Columbia University and returning guest Bryce Nichols from Rutgers. Together they break down what's actually changed, what hasn't, and why so many of the most important records there are still don't add up.

[Neal Harrison]

Let's start with scientific papers that have been published. Before you came on. We were doing a humorous bit where we sort of took the other side of the argument and we were trying to sell each other on the official narrative. And basically we didn't get very far before it became obvious that the official story is kind of ridiculous in terms of how weak it is. What's interesting is that not very much has been added to the official narrative. The one significant paper that has come out, so what tends to happen is that the dominant group, international team, as they call themselves, has published another paper. So they published in May of 2025 and the first author is again Picar. So there's a Picar 2021, there's Picar 2022, which was around the epidemiology related to the Huanan market, And then there's PCAR 2025. So this is sort of an attempt to roll up phylogenetic information from a number of teams that have contributed to the overall international team. So what they've done is to take all of the bat sarbicovirus sequences that were originally available and then by collaborating with a number of people across the world, they, they've added dozens and dozens more virus sequences. The conclusions are that viruses evolve. So this is obviously an important conclusion, but I think we would agree that this is something that we perhaps already knew. More specifically, they showed from their existing database and then that supplemented by the more recent data that they added, they showed that viruses in this particular group, coronaviruses, evolve by a process called recombination, where they swap small pieces of viruses in and out between different viruses in a way that creates viruses that have this so called mosaic appearance to their rna.

[Interviewer/Host]

By mosaic you mean like little pieces of, you know, little fern cleavage sides and you know, other things like that.

[Neal Harrison]

Yeah. So leaving aside, we'll leave aside the fear and cleavage site, but let's just say that you started out, let's say evolution started with as a red virus and a blue virus and a yellow virus and a green virus. What recombination does is create these mosaic viruses so that you have a long stretch of red that then you have a little piece of blue and then you might have a yellow piece and a green piece. And so you end up with this mosaic appearance to the genetics of viruses as they evolve. And this process of recombination occurs in reservoir species such as the horseshoe bats that they have studied for many, many years. So these are conclusions that are not exactly new and I would say not exactly earth shattering. What it has done is it shifted their molecular clock. So the clock, the evolutionary clock that enables them to time the emergence of the most recent common ancestor to SARS COV1 and SARS COV2. That clock has been moved upwards, so closer to the present day. So they now believe that the most, a recent ancestor to these viruses emerged maybe five to 10 years ago, whereas originally they were looking further back to 20 or 30 years before it actually emerged in Wuhan. The other conclusion that they make is quite interesting, and I think there are many moments in this story where the virology community says something and the rest of us go duh. Because they say something that is really of extraordinarily obviousness. So what they've shown is, from their phylogenetic data, is that these viruses circulated in bats for hundreds of years, possibly millennia, thousands of years. And then this was all occurring in a very restricted geographic location. So some of these viruses come from Yunnan Province, which is near. So this is Kunming, which is in the southwest of China. And some of them come from Laos, which is further south in Asia. And there also are sabikoviruses that come from the very eastern part of China. What they show in this paper, perhaps not for the first time, is that there's a long distance, geographical distance between Yunnan Province or Laos and Wuhan, where the virus apparently emerged in the human population. And the conclusion that they make in their paper is that the virus moved with extraordinary speed from Yunnan Province and Laos.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like a bullet train or something like that. Like some kind of air, like some kind of new way of travel. A spaceship or.

[Neal Harrison]

It's almost as though the viruses were transported to Wuhan in a vial, maybe.

[Interviewer/Host]

In some kind of scientific specimen.

[Neal Harrison]

It's almost as though they were transported in some way that did not involve bats.

[Bryce Nichols]

Right. Or a very fast bat.

[Neal Harrison]

Fast bat. No, no, no. So they've ruled out bats. So the bats are not flying from Yunnan Province to Wuhan. They're not flying from Laos to Wuhan.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it's not a raccoon dog that's flying commercial or maybe a pangolin flying private.

[Neal Harrison]

It could be a raccoon dog that moves at lightning speed.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. They're very fast. They are extremely fast.

[Bryce Nichols]

It would be a greyhound version.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's a raccoon greyhound.

[Bryce Nichols]

Raccoon, yeah. We got to come up with a. Or whip it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, to whip it. Yeah. So to kind of summarize this, Neil, this is just another piece of, for lack of a better term, junk science, like science that is just seeking a hypothesis, that has a hypothesis, that's seeking an end result that affirms a narrative that is very hard to prove.

[Neal Harrison]

It is goal seeking science. Yeah. So even though it's published in Cell, I would say that this is really, um. It's really performative. It is not pedestrian. You mean it is like. It is. It is. It is turning the handle right Not.

[Bryce Nichols]

Not a very compelling piece of work. So there's nothing maybe wrong with what's in the paper. It's that it doesn't provide any useful insight into the origin of SARS CoV2 and the fact that people would apply it to that question is the problem.

[Neal Harrison]

Technically correct, but lacking in novel insights.

[Interviewer/Host]

And this is also just to be clear for people listening, this is the same group of people, as you've pointed out, that were sort of evangelical about the wet market and have continued, instead of denouncing what they did, instead of saying, hey, we got this wrong, they continued to write papers that are seeking this to affirm this narrative that. That makes very little sense to any people who have looked at the rest of the data.

[Neal Harrison]

So I think it's become an irreversible journey for this group of people that their careers are now inextricably tied to these papers and they can't take them.

[Bryce Nichols]

Back, just like our careers are inexplicably tied to. Thank you, Dr. Fauci. And we can't take that back.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's like the never ending story, right, Bryce? I mean, they're on that dog, that raccoon dog flying through the sky. They just can't get off the dog.

[Bryce Nichols]

That's a great analogy.

[Interviewer/Host]

It was. It's a bat dog. Yeah, it's a bat dog, pangolin flying through the sky. You can't get off of it. Once you get on it, it's over.

[Neal Harrison]

So basically, that, I think, is all the new data that there is. There are no new data. So I want to give you two analogies to the emergence of COVID The first is a historical analogy, and the second is something that happened literally just a few weeks ago. So let's talk about the modern analogy first, which happened just a few weeks ago. So I think this happened in November or December, those months again. So. And this happened in Spain, or to be more specific, in Catalunya. This is the region in the area of Barcelona. So we all know, I think, that in Spain, pigs are a big business because the Spanish and the Catalans are very fond of Jamon. If you go to Spain or if you go to Barcelona, you can have marvelous ham, a variety of different types of ham. There are lots of pigs, and there are pig diseases, which are a big problem for the industry. And because of that, there are actually labs that study pig diseases. And of course, in this case, we're talking about viruses in many cases, and viruses of particular interest to the pig industry, not only in places like the Midwestern United States, but also in Spain are respiratory viruses, and particularly something that we would refer to as swine flu or pig flu, pig influenza. In November or December, there was a sudden event that happened very close to Barcelona, where not only pigs on some of the farms around Barcelona, but also wild boar. So the wild boar and the pigs sort of intermingle a little bit. So the wild boars are feral, and because they're quite close evolutionarily to pigs, they suffer from some of the same diseases, including the swine flu. So suddenly, the farmers in this region of Catalonia started noticing that they had some dead pigs, and they also found that there were some wild boar in the same area that had died. And they started to do autopsies on the pigs and boar to discover what had happened. And they discovered that there had been an outbreak of swine flu in this region. This was of interest to local journalists. So you know how journalists are. They never think about the science. So the journalists just. They happened to notice that the wild boar and the pigs were found a few hundred yards away from a lab. And that lab happens to be one that studies pig diseases, including swine flu. And so, of course, being journalists and not really thinking about science, they said, well, maybe it came from the lab. What nonsense.

[Interviewer/Host]

Obviously, that's impossible, isn't it? I mean, viruses cannot come from laboratories. It's impossible.

[Neal Harrison]

So the regional government immediately put a statement out that they believed that the virus. That they said, there's no virus in Catalonia. And so the virus had to come from another region outside of Catalonia.

[Interviewer/Host]

Ah, very familiar. Very familiar technique.

[Neal Harrison]

Yeah. And then the Spanish government said, oh, no, no, no, not in Espana. It must have come from France or some other part of the EU or elsewhere in the. The Schengen area. You know about the Schengen area, right? No.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's the Schengen area?

[Neal Harrison]

The Schengen area is a larger economic area that cooperates with the eu. So you can blame someone in the Schengen area for your pig disease without having to point the finger at any of the EU countries. So they said, I probably came from somewhere in the Schengen area. And the Guardian actually dutifully reported this. They suggested that it may have come in on a ham sandwich.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, the old ham sandwich route.

[Neal Harrison]

So there was a ham sandwich mechanism and of course, ham, by the way. Yeah.

[Bryce Nichols]

Wouldn't it be a hormone sandwich?

[Neal Harrison]

It would be. It would be a torta de hamon.

[Bryce Nichols]

Okay, just. See, I like accuracy in these podcasts.

[Neal Harrison]

I just spare. Yeah, yeah. So apologies.

[Interviewer/Host]

Now, Now, There was a, there's a love for ham that spans decades because apparently wasn't Nixon afraid of a ham sandwich and he immediately got vaccinated because of a swine flu traveling on likely a ham sandwich and not sort of a lab release that could have threatened the human population.

[Neal Harrison]

It makes perfect sense to Americans because we know that if you have a grand jury investigation, then they would immediately indict the ham sandwich.

[Interviewer/Host]

The ham sandwich, yeah, yeah, that's the old. That's the way this country works is if you can't indict a ham sandwich should get out of this business.

[Bryce Nichols]

And I've reached out ham sandwich to try to get the ham sandwich to come on my podcast and it has so far refused to join me.

[Neal Harrison]

Yeah, so. So anyway, so ham sandwich mechanism. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

Rice. I'm sorry, I think it's because you have enough ham that it feels like it would be overshadowed by the ham that's already there. So I just had to kind of put that in there that there's too much ham in the room for that ham sandwich to feel like the star while we're hamming.

[Neal Harrison]

So. So the ham sandwich mechanism was suggested for, for this, but unfortunately for the local government, some of the scientists involved in the region actually had some integrity. And so they were able to, not only to sequence the virus that they isolated from the boar and the pigs, but they were able to get that information out specifically that the sequence of the swine flu virus that they isolated from the pigs and the wild boar matched exactly to. What do they call it? The reference strain.

[Bryce Nichols]

Like the Georgia strain?

[Neal Harrison]

The Georgia 2007 strain. Yeah. So it was the so called reference strain. And when they say reference strain, what that means is the standard version that all labs use. This virus is not one that was in circulation in wild pig populations, in agricultural pig populations, or in the wild boar populations. This strain came from a lab. And of course, the journalists were then able to talk to the local vets and public health people and say, well, here's the lab and here's the virus that came from a lab and they're right next door to each other. And so unlike what happened in Wuhan, and perhaps unlike what might happen in the United States, the regional police went straight in to the lab to investigate. They have not publicized their findings, but I think it's a safe assumption that regional authorities are now accepting that this virus that was released into the pig and wild boar populations in Catalonia actually originated in this lab. So in Wuhan, of course, Worobee was looking at the motion of human beings in. In a city with a very large transit system. The pigs, as far as we know, don't have a subway system just outside Barcelona. And they also don't move. They don't tend to move particularly quickly.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wait, Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Armstrong.

[Bryce Nichols]

We both had it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes, we do know about when pigs fly. And in this instance, pigs have flown. They've flown from Georgia, potentially to the.

[Neal Harrison]

Catalonia region, possibly carrying a ham sandwich.

[Interviewer/Host]

Carrying a ham sandwich as an offering to the people there from the Shangu region. They were originally. They actually went to the Shangu region first. Right. And then. Then they came there. If the glove don't fit, you must acquit. Right, Bryce?

[Bryce Nichols]

I agree. I think this is a really good starting point for the sequel to the. Thank you, Dr. Fauci. Also, this is like that. We have pigs involved in some mass conspiracy, possibly involving underground travel as well as, like, air travel.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, I. I think we could play this interview uncut and grab the intention of the entire world based on the entertainment value here. Just between the three of us, I think we've got it.

[Neal Harrison]

So the ham sandwich mechanism is interesting because not only does the ham sandwich mechanism. It's ridiculous, obviously, and wrong, but it's reminiscent of the frozen food explanation.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, right, yes.

[Neal Harrison]

There was a frozen fish explanation for Covid that was floated by the Chinese government, and it didn't really last very long. And then the frozen fish, the idea, it came from somewhere else on the frozen fish to the market, which I.

[Bryce Nichols]

Think Lena Chan referred to as the.

[Neal Harrison]

Fish Popsicle, is that she called it Popsicle origins. Popsicle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So I want to just bring us into a groundedness. We can do a grounded exercise, sort of a breathing exercise, but I think inhaling rather to keep things connected. I want to really spend some time because I want to dedicate it to the Green Spring theory and really setting up the idea that one of the most explosive facts that we may never learn and that our own government, despite its claims of disclosure and that all these, you know, things are going to be made available and declassified. This one damning piece of information, the origin sort of echoes like the Epstein files, Like it's not something that anyone in this administration or anyone in a position of power would really want declassified because the origin could be far too damning to ever acknowledge, which, in theory, right now, a possible origin is here in the United States. And that out of one of our laboratories, the few handful of laboratories that could have had a sample of this working prototype virus, that there was a leak and that it was really here that the original contagion kind of began. So could you. Could you tell us what you know about that and what's been interesting for you as that debate has gone on?

[Neal Harrison]

Right. So. So this is one of those things where you get deported immediately if you talk about it. Let's try and connect some dots. So these are different dots that may or may not necessarily be connected, but there hasn't been any real attempt to determine whether they're connected or not. So one of the dots is that in the summer of 2019, there were outbreaks of respiratory infection in some retirement communities. And there were two retirement communities in particular that are in Fairfax County, Virginia. Although it is far from unusual to have outbreaks of respiratory infection in retirement communities or communities that are, in part, nursing homes, these are not unusual, but they usually occur in the winter. So they're usually associated with things like influenza and common cold or what we call rhinovirus. And so you would start generally to see these things in November, and then the peak season would be December through February, and then they would start disappearing in the spring. What was unusual about this particular outbreak is that it happened in, I think this was July of 2019. It wouldn't be unusual to have viral outbreaks, but they would probably be gastrointestinal viruses, rotaviruses, things like that can move very quickly through retirement communities and can cause severe illness and death. But it's unusual to have symptoms of respiratory infections move quickly through a retirement community in the summer. And what's interesting about the epidemiology of these outbreaks in the Virginia communities is that they, if you read the descriptions of what actually happened, the timing and the extent of illness and hospitalization and death was really quite similar to what subsequently happened when the virus arrived in Washington state on the West Coast. So there were outbreaks in King county, just outside Seattle, and in Snohomish county, there's also sort of exurbs of Seattle. And those outbreaks were centered around a couple of retirement communities. Many of the residents became ill and several of them died. And the descriptions of the illness and the spread within the community, the descriptions are all very, very similar between the Greenspring community, which is located in Fairfax County, Virginia, and those retirement communities that were in the news in Washington state in January and February of 2020.

[Interviewer/Host]

And just to help people, Neal, not to break your flow, but to help people see the connection that the outbreak in Washington state feels very logical. If you look at the Wuhan military Games as a super spreader, and that teams traveling from that location to Wuhan and back may have carried the virus with them and infected that local area. But what is so kind of explosive about the Green Spring theory is it's two months prior, over two months prior. And that in addition to that, it kind of completely turns the whole origin discussion on its head. Because if it originated or if those symptoms, let's just say if those symptoms are similar and they occurred in July in Virginia, it would mean that the Wuhan Military Games was potentially a second wave or China was even a second chapter in the origin story and not the first chapter. And that is, I think, a really explosive theory. So continue about what the connections were to Green Spring geographically to other areas that may have been working on the virus.

[Neal Harrison]

Right. So just to add a little bit to what we know about Green Spring is that the county, so Virginia obviously is a very big state. And so public health is divided up into counties. And the Fairfax County Department of Health actually was the primary agency that was responsible for looking into that outbreak. And I think that they did call in the CDC at some point. And so this was July of 2019 and August of 2019 that the investigations were going on. And there was a second outbreak that occurred at another retirement facility that was just a few miles down the road. I think that was in Burke, Virginia. So these places are all quite close together. The analysis that they did showed that it almost certainly was not an outbreak of influenza. So they weren't able to identify influenza virus in the patients from Green Spring. And what they did find was some patients who had rhinovirus. In other words, there were patients who were harboring viruses associated with the common cold. But of course, this is not surprising because those viruses are always in circulation and not just in the winter, but also in the summer. Really, the analysis of the viruses present was it was a non finding. They didn't really find anything. In retrospect, it wouldn't be surprising that they didn't find coronavirus because they weren't looking for coronavirus. Nobody knew about the new coronavirus. And although it's known that there are common colds that are associated with coronaviruses, those types of coronaviruses are quite different from SARS COV2. So what I'm saying is they wouldn't have detected SARS COV2 unless they were looking for it. And of course, there would be no reason to do so in July and August of 2019. Nevertheless, somebody has those samples, right? Those samples probably exist somewhere in a freezer at the Fairfax County Department of Health. So if anybody wanted to look at them, presumably they could do so, but nobody's done it. Okay. So originally, I think a lot of people were struck by the similarities between the Green Spring outbreak and those subsequent outbreaks that occurred not just in Washington State, but the outbreaks that occurred in retirement communities in other places. So there were concentrations of retired people in Wuhan that had a lot of infections, hospitalizations and deaths. And then the same thing happened in northern Italy. So a couple of cities in Northern Italy, for example, Bergamo, had very, very large older age populations and they were hit extremely hard during the COVID outbreak. So this association between concentrations of retirements of retirement communities and very severe outbreaks is something that we've seen in many places. So it didn't make much sense that suburban Virginia would have an outbreak. And then a few people began to realize that there are actually facilities that study viruses that are very close by. So there is a DOD establishment called Fort Belvoir, and Fort Belvoir is located very, very close, within two or three miles of Greenspring. If there were viruses that were being studied within the general vicinity, we already know that there's healthcare workers are a very good vector for viruses to get into retirement communities from the general environment. So we don't know what, if any, relevant viruses are worked on at Fort Belvoir. We do know that Fort Detrick in Maryland, which is probably about, I don't know, 50, 60 miles away, that Fort Detrick had people working on coronaviruses. Again, we don't know which specific coronaviruses and what those programs were, but there are actually links between the programs at Fort Detrick and Fort Belvoir that most people aren't aware of. And there were some people that worked at both institutions and also had connections with Naval Medical Research Unit that's based at Quantico and the Naval Medical Research Unit, or namru, is interesting to Covid Origins followers because NAMRU has a research location in Singapore and it's just down the road from Duke Nus. So these are all dots, right? And I'm not connecting the dots. It's curious that the US DoD had this strong interest in coronaviruses and they were looking for coronaviruses in places where the closest relatives of SARS COV 2 were identified.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's another interesting thing that you bring up here and that.

[Neal Harrison]

Is that a. Is that a conspiracy theory?

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, that's the C word. And here in America, the C word is a very, very bad word, probably worse. Than the F word of fraud. But I would say that the thing that is interesting to make another connection is By August of 2019, Fort Detrick U.S. emirate at Fort Detrick had been shut down. And this is something that Ebright believes is the result of many, many violations and safety concerns that happened over a long period of time. But the cdc, after all of this, you know, it isn't. It is until August 2019 that that facility is shut down. And if you were to expand your sort of, quote, conspiracy dragnet here, you would ask yourself, why is the event, this potential leak or contagion so close to the shutdown? And you've already identified that contractors were working, there was a connection between both facilities, and this facility is shut down right around the time that if the CDC or others were detecting an outbreak, this is a suspiciously a suspicious timing for the shutdown of that infamous facility. Tell me about sort of that. You know, you have a lot of questions about that. And these are questions ultimately for. For potentially Dr. Robert Redfield, because he was presiding over the CDC at that time. The CDC was the one who ultimately shut down U.S. emirates. So tell me more about. About that connection.

[Neal Harrison]

So nobody has explained why Fort Detrick was closed down in August.

[Bryce Nichols]

Well, maybe Heaven explained in as much detail as you'd like.

[Neal Harrison]

Right?

[Bryce Nichols]

Yeah, I think he did comment on that recently.

[Neal Harrison]

So there are people who clearly know all of the available details of why Fort Detrick was closed down, but we haven't. That hasn't been shared publicly.

[Bryce Nichols]

Maybe you should get, you know, call to action, get more information about the Fort Detrick closure.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. This is a good opportunity for anyone who's a whistleblower to come out into the light and risk being assassinated for telling us why Fort Detrick was closed at that time.

[Bryce Nichols]

Or maybe the government just will do it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, of course. Yeah. The government loves transparency. Favorite thing.

[Neal Harrison]

There's another Fort Detrick story that became available in the last 12 months or so, which, as far as we know, it doesn't have anything to do with COVID but it is alarming. So the Spanish swine flu leak that I talked about, that was a BSL3 lab. And so if it turns out, as I think it's pretty obvious, that the swine flu virus in the pigs and wild boar in Catalunya came from the lab. That means that a BSL3 lab leaked. Now, that would be by far not the first time that BSL3 institutions have been shown to leak. And that's important because we know that the part of The Wuhan Institute of virology was BSL3 or even BSL2, where they were doing coronavirus work. BSL3 work is pretty common across the United States. The very highest level of security, the BSL4. So this is the one where everything is done through a glove box and everybody is wearing the moon suits and then they have to shower in and shower out, etc. Etc. So the BSL4 is the highest level of containment for virus work. And there is a BSL4, famously at Fort Detrick for work on extremely dangerous materials like Ebola virus and so on. So that was part of what was called the intramural research facility, the irf, which is a part of NIH that was seconded to the Fort Detrick campus. So in other words, there was part of the niaid. So Fauci's Institute had a lab specifically at Fort Detrick doing work as part of what they called the intramural research facility. So part of the NIH's program, but on a DoD campus. And this was actually closed down. So this specific lab was closed down with some fanfare, actually, by RFK Jr and Rand Paul was also there, and Jay Bhattacharya was also there. So there was a photo op at. I thought Kristi Noem was also maybe. So there was a photo op at Fort Detrick of them closing that facility. And the reasons for that facility being closed were actually quite. When they actually leaked out to the press were quite alarming. And turned out that there was a group of contractors that were doing BSL4 work there. And apparently there was some kind of. There's some kind of love triangle or something that was going on. One of the virologists apparently was spurned by another virologist, and then their response was to cut holes in the moon suit. And so there was a potential danger of people being infected in the BSL4. And you can read this story. So a lot of the information is publicly available. It's very alarming that that kind of work is going on in a really sort of unstable environment involving organisms at the BSL4 containment level.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is also another one of these ham sandwich scenarios where it's been used before. Wasn't there a lover's triangle, a quarrel that resulted in a murder with a laboratory that was allegedly handling a similar virus sample.

[Bryce Nichols]

But nothing escaped, as far as we know.

[Interviewer/Host]

2020 case involving a scientist, Chinese scientists in the US was determined by police to be a murder suicide stemming from a dispute over an intimate partner, Dr. Bing Lu. Okay. A research assistant at the Pittsburgh School of Medicine was found dead in his home and in Pennsylvania in May of 2020.

[Bryce Nichols]

Were they working? Was that virology work going on or.

[Interviewer/Host]

Local police in the US Ex explicitly stated that there was zero evidence linking the event to his work, which included research on COVID 19.

[Bryce Nichols]

Oh boy, here we go.

[Interviewer/Host]

The incident was purely a personal matter between two men.

[Neal Harrison]

Whatever the truths of, of these individual situations might be, I think the collective impact of these stories is that perhaps we should all be a little bit more concerned about people with interpersonal and anger management issues handling dangerous viruses. So, you know, Bryce and I have talked about this a few times about the anger management problems of some of the virologists who post on X.

[Interviewer/Host]

This would be in reference to Angie Rasmussen who's a very outspoken advocate for the heroic work of the proximal origin authors, and Anthony Fauci and others who have single handedly saved science.

[Neal Harrison]

So we don't name names here, but we know that there are quite a few posters on X who do have anger management issues that are quite obvious. Blue sky now, they're mostly.

[Bryce Nichols]

Many of them are on Blue Sk. Yeah, so yeah, there's.

[Interviewer/Host]

That platform has really exploded.

[Neal Harrison]

Yeah. So I think that I personally have concerns about some of those people handling dangerous viruses. You know, if this is in any way representative of the broader population of people doing dangerous virology, I think it's a concern.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I think it's also really getting to the heart of the matter, which is this has nothing to do with extremely dangerous, potentially existential work being done clandestinely by the United States government wholesale across the world with cooperation with adversary states like China and others. This has nothing to do with that. This has to do with a couple bad apples who don't know how to keep their junk in their pants and who are just totally off their rocker with, you know, love addiction to the point that they're stabbing holes in virus, you know, containment lab suits and they're, you know, killing each other at, in Pittsburgh because of the, you know, that they're, they just can't handle love. And so that's the issue that we really have to work on and not this research, because this research is not even happening. Labs can't come from virus viruses labs. This. Ham sandwiches fly. Pigs fly. Raccoon dogs fly. How are we doing? Is everybody following my scientific logic here? I feel like this is logical, empirical, fact based science. And I'm, I'm ready to ask Proximal origin for sure. I'll Tell you that it actually is. If you consider a quantum world where things can happen manifested through our minds, that if we in our mind believe that this came from the one on seafood market and we just in our mind focus our quantum in our pineal gland, our quantum power of manifestation that the virus did come from that region mysteriously.

[Bryce Nichols]

Is it. I'm going to go to him for the pronunciation. Is it Pineal or Pineal?

[Neal Harrison]

It's Pineal.

[Interviewer/Host]

The pineal. Excuse me. And I want to also apologize to any off worlders, Syrians or Pleiadians, who are particularly focused on the pineal gland and our connection to our ancestors. That which is, you know, again a scientific conversation. Did the virus come from outer space? So I have to, for reasons not related to Bryce, which is uncommon, I have to conclude the interview sometime soon. So Bryce and I want to give you an opportunity to offer some closing statements to this grand jury indictment hearing of ham sandwich. The hamon sandwich. A flying dog alien transmitted RNA sequence. I want you to bring us home right now. You have 60 seconds. Make it count. Make it work. This is what will be used for your casting tape for the rest of your career. Go.

[Bryce Nichols]

Well, I'd like to thank both of you for participating in a tremendous dialogue today, especially Neil for the joining me here in person in the studio and wearing his, his famous outfit that he featured in the film. Thank you, Dr. Fauci, who also, I would say, like we talked about Neil before we got on here as the star of the film. And I would say that he's absolutely the star. I know I've said that there should have been more of me in the film and I stick with that. I do think that maybe because you were concerned that I was going to, you know, outshine the others in the film, you downplay my role. I get it, I get it. But that's fine. Maybe we can correct that mistake in the future. One thing that came out today in with a substantive point that Neil made is about nursing homes and nursing home infections. And I would like to offer a proposal. Maybe we can think about a way in which lab accidents can be monitored and that is by using nursing homes sentinels as well. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, here's the thing.

[Interviewer/Host]

A canary in the cold mine, canary.

[Bryce Nichols]

In the coal mines. I'm actually serious about this one. Is there are concerns generally that people in the public have about how many outbreaks that occur naturally are actually lab infections, like lab acquired infections that got out into the public. It's possible, maybe we could take advantage of Existing infrastructures that are nursing homes located close to labs and as whatever you call it, sentinels, canaries in the coal mine to monitor the environment for escapes from lags. So if you could correlate what's present in a laboratory with things that are, you know, found in patients in a nursing home, that might provide you with a way to monitor community escapes. Will people do this? Probably not, because it probably violates all kinds of regulations and stuff. But imagine collecting samples from old folks homes and then using those samples as a way of monitoring labs nearby them. Alternatively, we could just move labs to islands where escapes would not get into the community or whatnot. But if we're going to have all these lab proliferations, why not take advantage of retirement homes located nearby and sort of those dual purpose facilities monitoring outbreaks from labs as well as caring for our elderly population in their their golden years.

[Interviewer/Host]

I think that that's a really interesting proposal and I would propose that we take fecal samples of scientists to detect the presence of any bullshit. And I would wonder if you would approve of that measure of sort of just an early detection program of fecal matter from scientists scatological study to detect the presence of bullshit. Jenner, I don't know.

[Bryce Nichols]

Well, I'm going to have to think about that more. But I appreciate you sharing your thoughts as always. Okay, I guess I already lost Neil.

[Interviewer/Host]

Neil's already gone and this was good. I have to go. I literally have to go.

[Narrator/Producer]

Thanks for listening. Leaked a podcast inspired by the documentary. Thank you, Dr. Fauci. If you want to see the full story, the interviews, the evidence and more, check out the documentary streaming now on Angel Studios, visit angel.com Leaked is a production of Tenderfoot Labs produced in partnership with Insight Studios, Angel Studios and Bombadil Productions. Producers on behalf of Insight Studios are Jenna First, Lewis Fenton, Scott St. John and Arnold Rifkin. Executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot Labs are Donald Albright, Payne Lindsey and Alex Vespested. Tenfoot Lab's lead producer is Tristan Bankston. Editing by Cameron Tege. Coordinating producers are John street and Jordan Foxworthy. Artwork by Where Eagles Dare. Music by Danielle Fuerst, Kairi Mateen and Jay Ragsdale. Mix by Dayton Cole. For more podcasts like Leaked, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.