Leaked – Episode 8: Redfield on Risk: Gain-of-Function, Bird Flu, and the Next Pandemic

Date: January 27, 2026
Host: Tenderfoot Labs (TFLabs)
Guest: Dr. Robert Redfield (former CDC Director)
Summary prepared by request

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features an in-depth interview with Dr. Robert Redfield, focused on the high-stakes world of pandemic origin, gain-of-function research, and global biosecurity threats. Drawing on Redfield’s decades of public health experience—including his controversial role as CDC Director during COVID-19—the episode explores the shifting narratives around COVID origins, mounting concern over bird flu, and lessons to (belatedly) apply before the next pandemic hits. The conversation intertwines personal reflection, policy critique, and candid commentary on the scientific and political players who have shaped the crisis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Long Covid, Vaccine Injuries, and Shifting Medical Consensus

• Long Covid Recognition:
  Redfield shares the slow journey of medical acknowledgment for Long Covid, recounting patient stories of being dismissed as psychosomatic until visible debility—particularly cognitive dysfunction—couldn’t be ignored.

  • Quote:

    “She cried because you’re the first doctor that acknowledged I was sick.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 01:57)

• Vaccine Injuries:
  The acknowledgment of mRNA vaccine-related injuries is becoming less taboo. Redfield notes a growing patient cohort suffering after mRNA vaccination, advising heightened scrutiny and selective use (preferring protein-based vaccines for the elderly).

• Lab Origin Consensus:
  Dr. Redfield sees a strong shift toward consensus that COVID-19 likely began as a lab-based gain-of-function research accident, with only a “minority of individuals” still holding onto the market origin theory.

  • Quote:

    “…growing consensus now that this pandemic actually started in a Wuhan lab. It was a consequence of gain of function research.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 03:36)

2. Gain-of-Function Research and Regulatory Challenges

• Inadequate Enforcement:
  Despite a nominal U.S. ban, gain-of-function research persists in domestic and foreign labs. Redfield advocates harsh economic consequences for non-compliant institutions.

  • Quote:

    “…the reality is it’s still going on in many labs throughout the United States and around the world.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 06:43)

• Political Obstacles:
  Redfield lauds current health leaders’ moves toward “honesty and transparency,” while noting pushback from professional bodies (like AAP and OBGYNs) and entrenched interests.

3. Bird Flu: The Looming Threat

• Bird Flu Outbreaks and Market Response:
  The host references mass poultry deaths, economic fallout, and widespread use of mRNA vaccines in livestock. Redfield criticizes this response, arguing that immunological pressure accelerates viral evolution, potentially pushing bird flu to become more dangerous for humans.

  • Quote:

    “All they’re going to do is drive evolution, drive evolution. So I’m not an advocate. I think it’s a poorly thought out policy.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 10:54)

• Vaccine Efficacy Doubts:
  Redfield labels current flu vaccines as notably ineffective, citing annual mismatches and limited effectiveness (~25-50%). He urges investment in broad-spectrum antivirals rather than further vaccine development.

4. Pandemic Policy: Failures, Lessons, and Trust

• Mandates and Public Trust:
  Redfield is sharply critical of both vaccine mandates and the loss of public trust that resulted. He underscores how COVID vaccines, while reducing severe outcomes for the elderly, failed to block infection and should have been targeted accordingly.

  • Quote:

    “The vaccine really never should have been mandated and it should have never been recommended for individuals that weren’t vulnerable for bad outcome… we’re still paying a huge price for it. It will take a long time to rebuild public trust.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 15:49)

• Operation Warp Speed:
  Praises the speed and innovation in development, but believes messaging misled the public on the nature and limits of the vaccines.

• Other Policy Mistakes:
  Closing schools, shutting down the economy, ignoring natural immunity, and designating COVID as “not very infectious”—all cited as costly missteps.

  • Quote:

    “…be honest about what you got wrong, you know, call it the way it is. Clearly the vaccine mandate was a huge mistake. Closing the public schools was a huge mistake.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 21:55)

5. Personal Reflection and Accountability

• Admitting Mistakes:
  Redfield details his early misclassification of COVID as “SARS-like,” thereby relying on symptom screening and missing widespread asymptomatic spread. He stresses the importance of humility and public honesty from health leaders.
  • Quote:

    “We falsely were under the operational belief that there was no asymptomatic infection. In reality, a majority of people infected with COVID are subsymptomatic.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 26:10)

6. Politics, Bureaucracy, and the Culture of Science

• Speaking Freely while in Office:
  Discusses constraints of being a public health official within the “chain of command”—and professional fallout after advocating the lab leak hypothesis (e.g., being publicly attacked and labeled a racist).

  • Quote:

    “The wet market was a roost that I do believe certain people played into in an aggressive way to turn attention away from the laboratory.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 29:43)

• Redfield vs. Fauci:
  The episode touches delicately on professional tensions, Redfield noting “Tony has a gene that is highly targeted towards self support.”
  (34:33)

7. Unexplored Origins and Intelligence Failures

• Potential Earlier Outbreaks:
  The host brings up possible pre-Wuhan U.S. outbreaks and the closing of Fort Detrick; Redfield firmly denies a U.S. origin, emphasizing the shutdown was for containment lapses, not due to COVID.

  • Quote:

    “I shut down Fort Detrick for a very specific reason… it was strictly because of their containment procedures.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 38:33)

• Military Games as “Super Spreader”:
  Redfield posits that the October 2019 Wuhan Military Games were the first global superspreader event, given subsequent outbreaks in countries represented there.

• Intelligence Community’s Role:
  He expresses skepticism over the CIA’s persistent wet market theory, suggesting institutional motives may have influenced official conclusions.

  • Quote:

    “I was always bothered by the CIA’s analysis that they thought this was still more likely from the wet market… their conclusion was non credible.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 44:05)

8. Lessons for the Future: Biosecurity, Dual-Use, and Ethical Dilemmas

• The Biosecurity Imperative:
  Argues that biosecurity—not traditional military threats—is now the greatest risk to national security.

  • Quote:

    “Biosecurity really in my view is the most important national security threat that our nation has more than Russia, China, Iran and North Korea.”
    (Dr. Redfield, 46:35)

• Dual-Use Dilemma:
  Redfield (and the host) reflect on the irony and risk of “creating a pandemic to defend against a pandemic”—and the peril of well-meaning science inadvertently causing catastrophe.

  • Quote:

    “I do not buy into the hypothesis… that in order for us to prepare for the threat of these pathogen evolutionary events… we need to create them. I think that’s a flawed logic…”
    (Dr. Redfield, 48:40)

  • Parallels drawn to Oppenheimer and the legacy of destructive scientific advancement.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Lab Origin Skepticism:

  "It's really a minority of individuals that actually still hold on to the…Fauci theory that it came from the wet market."
  (03:38)

• On Vaccine Mandates:

  "…the vaccine really never should have been mandated and it should have never been recommended for individuals that weren't vulnerable for a bad outcome… we're still paying a huge price for it."
  (15:49)

• On Bird Flu Risk:

  "I do think that pandemic is likely to come from…again, unfortunately, like Covid, it's more likely to come from the lab than from nature."
  (07:45)

• On Intelligence Failures:

  "The failure isn't always missing information. Sometimes it's failing to see it clearly, quickly, honestly enough to act."
  (50:15, Host closing reflection)

Key Timestamps for Reference

| Timestamp | Discussion Topic | |------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:54–02:24 | Long Covid and patient recognition anecdote | | 03:00–04:01 | Vaccine injuries and lab origin consensus | | 06:00–08:00 | Gain-of-function research policy and enforcement | | 10:19–12:25 | Bird flu vaccination critique and risk of driving viral evolution | | 15:24–18:00 | Vaccine mandates, public trust, Operation Warp Speed critique | | 21:00–23:00 | Outline of major pandemic-response mistakes | | 24:17–27:40 | Personal mistakes in SARS misclassification and failed symptom-based policy | | 28:48–31:50 | Constraints on public honesty within CDC, clash with Fauci | | 34:11–34:33 | Professional tensions with Dr. Fauci | | 38:27–41:00 | Addressing early U.S.-origin conspiracy theories, Fort Detrick shutdown, military games | | 42:52–44:05 | U.S. intelligence failures and delayed realization of pandemic risk | | 46:29–49:39 | Summing up: Biosecurity as existential national threat, ethical dilemmas in dual-use research | | 50:15 | Host's closing reflection on transparency, speed, caution, and the nature of truth in major crises |

Tone and Language

The tone is frank, somber, and occasionally caustic—especially as Dr. Redfield discusses the failures and institutional blindness he perceives. Both Redfield and the host speak candidly, often referencing specific people, policies, and scientific concepts without pulling punches on their critiques.

Conclusions and Takeaways

• Gain-of-function research persists as a major, under-addressed biosecurity threat.
• Public trust, once lost (through mandates, miscommunication, and political gamesmanship), is difficult to regain.
• Vaccine policy requires nuance—focusing on who truly benefits—and greater transparency regarding side effects.
• The next major pandemic risk (likely bird flu) may, once again, be driven by lab activity—not nature.
• The intersection of science, policy, and intelligence demands deep humility, speed, transparent admission of error, and caution before acting—or not acting—on imperfect information.
• America’s biosecurity posture resembles the early years of nuclear defense: advanced in technology, naive in ethical foresight, and at risk of tragic unintended consequences.

For full context, listeners are encouraged to watch the companion documentary, "Thank You, Dr. Fauci," available at Angel Studios.